Related
Hi there,
I used to use a SonyEricsson Bluetooth Stereo thingy to listen to music and while the quality was decent (no skipping) the battery of the earphones doesn't last long enough to make this a good solution if you are on a long travel. The other problem is that you can't use bluetooth earphones on a plane.
So, since the HTC standard earphones are awful, I bought this adapter
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=142091
and I am now using my Sennheiser earphones.
As you can see from other customers' comments this adapter is really crap and as soon as you touch it the sound becomes muffled and you need to readjust it so that the contacts work again. Basically you can't listen to music with the phone in your pocket.
So the question is: what is your solution to listen to music? Is the HTC wired remote reliable in terms of having good contacts with the body of the phone? Is there another adapter that has more stable contacts.
This is becoming a major drawback for me and I am not sure I want my next phone to have all the hassles that the HTC proprietary connector implies.
Thanks in advance!
A.
PS: I know there is another thread about this but my point here is that I don't care about having or not having a microphone, or what Expansys is selling.... I want to be sure that someone is using something with good results!!
I have a very cheap adapter with a short cable, found it on ebay.
Works flawless, as it has a cornered plug.
http://cgi.ebay.at/Stereo-Headphone...ihZ002QQcategoryZ3728QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
esackbauer said:
I have a very cheap adapter with a short cable, found it on ebay.
Works flawless, as it has a cornered plug.
http://cgi.ebay.at/Stereo-Headphone...ihZ002QQcategoryZ3728QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your reply. It is indeed quite cheap so I will give it a try. I really hope the L-shaped plug works better!
A.
http://www.bluetake.com/products/BT420EX.htm
got these
cant use them on a plane
makes me look like lobot
http://swg.stratics.com/content/lore/personas/images/lobot.jpg
but their sound is pretty good
esackbauer said:
I have a very cheap adapter with a short cable, found it on ebay.
Works flawless, as it has a cornered plug.
http://cgi.ebay.at/Stereo-Headphone...ihZ002QQcategoryZ3728QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have just received the adapter from Hong Kong. It works great! No comparison with the one sold on Expansys. This one fits well into the USB socket and there's no problem with the sound disappearing when moving the phone.
Thanks for the suggestion!
I have the I.Tech Radio Clip
http://www.itechdynamic.com/en/products_spec.asp?cid=2&pid=02050
Works like a charm, no issues, and battery life on it lasts 6 hours, enough for me.
Best thing about it is the ability to skip music and pause and play music without taking your device out of your pocket or holster, bad thing is everytime you do, your device goes on and battery can drain if it doesn't switch of soon or other buttons may be pressed when it is on in your pocket or holster.
Another good thing is also the radio, and I know that it is just a perk, but good enough, if your sick of your songs, listen to the radio.
nice gadget
google dot com slash phone now has the car dock listed ($55) but says “Sorry, this item is temporarily not available.”
The PDF that they link to talks about a built in speaker but doesn’t mention a audio out port for connecting to your car stereo. Could they have really left this out?
Edit: The listing disappeared after only a couple of minutes and unfortunately I refreshed before I grabbed a screenshot. I did save the help page and the PDF, although both are still accessible on Google’s servers.
I can't post links so the best I can do is (bit dot ly slash bvAsYB)
Brettray's link
http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=178146
Love the way the phone slides into it... so much easier than my 3rd party POS holder I'm using right now...
After checking out the PDF... looks like you're right... no audio jack... but no real need from one. You should be able to plug an audio jack into the phone still... would've been nicer to just leave it in the dock though and have audio transferred through the gold connectors... Why Google?
Edit: In the PDF it talks about how the dock automatically enables BlueTooth. Guessing that's how you're supposed to connect it to your cars audio.
"You can't use a Bluetooth headset while the phone is docked" - again, Google... why??
Nexus One Car Dock
Finally!! I hope I can have it by this weekend.
Re: Nexus One Car Dock (official) doesnt have audio out?
Im going to wait a while before I purchase.Right now my home dock is acting funky, some times it charges and sometimes it doesn't depending on how my nexus sits.
Sent from my Nexus One using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
The pdf actually mentions sending data through bluetooth on the dock. It probably does have an audio jack.
SpyderMS said:
Brettray's link
http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=178146
Love the way the phone slides into it... so much easier than my 3rd party POS holder I'm using right now...
After checking out the PDF... looks like you're right... no audio jack... but no real need from one. You should be able to plug an audio jack into the phone still... would've been nicer to just leave it in the dock though and have audio transferred through the gold connectors... Why Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't push data through the gold connectors.
The pdf actually mentions playing music through the phone -> bluetooth.
There probably is a connection on there, did the desk dock specify the audio connection?
It's gonna be retarded if it plays audio through the docks speaker phone, wtf.
Its already gone?
wesbalmer said:
Its already gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think it was supposed to be up originally as it showed not available. I'd guess it would show up pretty soon though as a result.
I think it looks great, but it is really dissapointing that you cannot use a bluetooth headset while it is docked. I do not think that the speakerphone will be clear enough with the amount of time I am on the phone. I guess now I know that it looks like and how it functions, I will be looking in to another option.
The dock just came back up on the purchasing website and now seems to be officially for sale.
Just purchased
KnightMAREcrow said:
Just purchased
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too. finally....
$55 seems a bit excessive imo. Especially considering that I can't even make a phone call while using it. Speaker phone? hardly. The speaker phone is **** on my nexus.
It looks like it wont work with a case either. I dont understand why they think people aren't using cases for their phones.
Mine is purchased! However I do not need outlandish Fedex overnight for this like I did for my phone
The ones that ordered, please take some pictures and do a review for us.
I'm worried about the not able to connect to a bluetooth headset while docked. I wonder if bluetooth headset is also considered a bluetooth car stereo.
I've never used headsets and don't care to. But I'm about to order a bluetooth car stereo and I'll be pissed if I can connect my Nexus One to the stereo.
Will do Sistum
Waited so long for this. How can it not have an audio out? I'm not going to listen to mp3 and navigation through the built in speakers and not my car speakers. That's ridiculous. Am I missing something here?
Sistum Id said:
The ones that ordered, please take some pictures and do a review for us.
I'm worried about the not able to connect to a bluetooth headset while docked. I wonder if bluetooth headset is also considered a bluetooth car stereo.
I've never used headsets and don't care to. But I'm about to order a bluetooth car stereo and I'll be pissed if I can connect my Nexus One to the stereo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as you tell the phone to to pair with the dock you should be fine to pair with anything else.
the product description says that the speakers "enhance the in-car music and media experience." How exactly do pathetic speakers enhance audio? what's the point if it has to go through speakers instead of the very common audio jack equipped head unit.
you CAN still plug in an audio jack to the phone when it is docked. but then again i can still plug an audio jack into the phone when it's on the desk dock. I thought the whole bloody point of the bluetooth dock was so that you don't have to plug in the audio jack, what's the point of a bluetooth dock that still requires you to plug the phone in?!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I cancelled my order until this issue is confirmed and or resolved. until then, i will continue sitting my phone in a cup holder and connecting an audio cable and charging cable.
3bs said:
Waited so long for this. How can it not have an audio out? I'm not going to listen to mp3 and navigation through the built in speakers and not my car speakers. That's ridiculous. Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes! Thank You! Well, I'm guessing that they figure people have bluetooth enabled stereos? Can the N1 even transfer audio through BT? Now I just need to get the BT working lol.
Purchased.
Hello,
I know Google made a care dock, in fact I have the Desktop Dock.
But I read a couple of reviews and the results were not satisfying.
So I need your advice !
What is the best Care Dock for the Nexus One ?
I want to use it as GPS/phone but not media player.
Best regards,
rXp>!<
None. Theres only one that's from google or htc. Same thing anyways.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I have the google car dock (and the Google desk dock), and it is superb. That's what you want.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
rXpCH said:
Hello,
I know Google made a care dock, in fact I have the Desktop Dock.
But I read a couple of reviews and the results were not satisfying.
So I need your advice !
What is the best Care Dock for the Nexus One ?
I want to use it as GPS/phone but not media player.
Best regards,
rXp>!<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Nexus Dock that was sold by Google. It's great for GPS and I have to say it is OK at best for hands free phone. Maybe in a quieter car (Chevy Blazer here) but I have a hard time hearing people even at maximum volume. My car is a little loud though so maybe someone else may have better input for that issue I have. It seems with some of the older roms on my phone I had a few connection issues(random bluetooth connection drops) but on some of the newer roms I haven't had that problem at all. As far as a media player.. meh If you like listening to your music through a CB radio speaker then this is the dock for you! It is very well made as far as construction. I've had mine almost a year now and it still works with no issues. In all reality the music player doesn't sound terrible through the speaker but it doesn't sound great, the phone feature is OK and navigation is great. It is a good product but just like any other product it is not perfect.
flappjaxxx said:
I have the Nexus Dock that was sold by Google. It's great for GPS and I have to say it is OK at best for hands free phone. Maybe in a quieter car (Chevy Blazer here) but I have a hard time hearing people even at maximum volume. My car is a little loud though so maybe someone else may have better input for that issue I have. It seems with some of the older roms on my phone I had a few connection issues(random bluetooth connection drops) but on some of the newer roms I haven't had that problem at all. As far as a media player.. meh If you like listening to your music through a CB radio speaker then this is the dock for you! It is very well made as far as construction. I've had mine almost a year now and it still works with no issues. In all reality the music player doesn't sound terrible through the speaker but it doesn't sound great, the phone feature is OK and navigation is great. It is a good product but just like any other product it is not perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have a car dock, and the htc website is out of stock now),
but can't you set your phone to use bluetooth A2DP to connect to a bluetooth capable car stereo automatically when you put it in the dock? Or is that the situation you have where you talk about bad audio quality?
Also, can't you get car stereos/kits that give you handsfree speakerphone using your stereo and an external mic?
For me, the dock is little better than a car charger if it doesn't auto connect to such newfangled wizardry to solve these problems automagically (the dock does actually CHARGE the phone too, right?).
tonyx3 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have a car dock, and the htc website is out of stock now),
but can't you set your phone to use bluetooth A2DP to connect to a bluetooth capable car stereo automatically when you put it in the dock? Or is that the situation you have where you talk about bad audio quality?
Also, can't you get car stereos/kits that give you handsfree speakerphone using your stereo and an external mic?
For me, the dock is little better than a car charger if it doesn't auto connect to such newfangled wizardry to solve these problems automagically (the dock does actually CHARGE the phone too, right?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dock's built-in speaker has not so great audio. You can connect it to a bluetooth capable stereo, I just happen to not have one of those. I am sure there are kits out there that do all of the above. Yes it does charge the phone as well. The phone connects to the dock's speaker via Bluetooth and that's what I meant about the previous random bluetooth drops. For what I use it for, mostly navigation and charging it serves it's purpose.
flappjaxxx said:
The dock's built-in speaker has not so great audio. You can connect it to a bluetooth capable stereo, I just happen to not have one of those. I am sure there are kits out there that do all of the above. Yes it does charge the phone as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, the car dock has an extra built in speaker? I kinda assumed you were talking about audio coming from the phone's built in speaker. I see. Thanks for the heads up, in any case.
Arkon has good universal car mounts. The good thing is that it is future proof assuming that phones don't get super wide.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
gonna try out one of these
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/universal-car-windshield-swivel-mount-for-htc-g5-39882
please know that if you order it, it ships from China. With all the Chinese New Year festivities going on there it will probably take 4 weeks to get here.
From Amazon
I bought this dock: http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K3...h-Compatible/dp/B003Y3BEV4/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
And although is supposedly for the iPhone, it works great with the N1. I modded the base, so it will hold the tip of this charger: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000S5Q9CA/ref=oss_product?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
The dock you can either put it in the windshield or in one of the vents. I put mine in a vent, because it is closer to my hand and I don't have to reach to the windshield to operate the phone, when I am using the car home.
I hope that this info helps.
I've had no issues with the Google car dock.
Happily rockin' the Google Car Dock as well. I love the docks with this phone!
I used this tutorial
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=744728&highlight=diy
did the job nice! and cheap too!
I have been looking for a dock and the google dock is no longer being sold by google and is only available on ebayor amazon, there is a buy now on ebay for $79, and it costs $185 on amazon! It looks really nice though, it original sold for $55, so I may shell out the premium to get the only really nice dock i have seen
If I didn't already have the google car dock, I'd probably give this a go:
http://lifehacker.com/#!5747897/how-to-build-a-car-mount-for-your-cellphone-from-office-supplies
I'm usually a cheap bastard.
DumbUglyDragon said:
Happily rockin' the Google Car Dock as well. I love the docks with this phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It rocks until it breaks.
Check out proclip usa.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
I'd love to hack an audio out port directly only my official N1 car dock....other than that, it's fantastic.
I have the official Google/HTC car dock, and am satisfied with it. The speaker in it is OK, but not great if you have a loud vehicle. Communication between the dock and phone is via Bluetooth, despite it being physically clipped in. I had a small issue where I found that music would play via the dock speaker, but phone calls would only play on the phone's speaker, oddly.
Also, after taking a road trip with my N1 as a GPS unit before I got the dock, I found that a standard car 12v --> USB adapter with a microUSB cable did not provide enough juice to power the phone while using Google Nav with GPS. It would slowly discharge the battery over time. This happened with 3 different 12v--> USB adapters, so maybe most of them out there don't put out enough amps.
Anyways, I got mine last fall from HTC's site, which was (and still is) backordered. I did eventually get it, though.
Because I'm an xda forum noob, it won't let me post the URL... but just Google "shopamerica" and "HTC" and find accessories for the Nexus One from the HTC America site.
the only problem with non Google Car Dock/Car Mount is that phone dialer never show in landscape
is there any trick to emulate google car dock to allow dialer to be in landscape ?
thanks
CTMechE said:
I have the official Google/HTC car dock, and am satisfied with it. The speaker in it is OK, but not great if you have a loud vehicle. Communication between the dock and phone is via Bluetooth, despite it being physically clipped in. I had a small issue where I found that music would play via the dock speaker, but phone calls would only play on the phone's speaker, oddly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a little workaround for that - the MOTOROLA T505 (google it) hands-free device works miracles..it has a decent, loud, inbuilt speaker, communicates via bluetooth with the N1, and transmits via FM to your car-stereo. it searches for "least used/weakest signal" on the entire FM frequency band, announces verbally the FM frequency you need to set your radio to, and off you go. as a bonus, it has an inbuilt rechargeable battery so you can take it anywhere.Works for making calls and music 'broadcasts'
I picked up the Infuse Car dock with my Infuse and I LOVE IT. It works great, its very very good build quality. Nice to have the dock always plugged in for power and I can just pop my phone in and go. Also really nice that Samsung Car Home auto opens when I plug it in to the dock.
To anyone that uses their phone for calls or music while driving I highly recommend it.
Did you pick it up at an AT&T store? I am eager to check one out, as I plan to use the phone quite a bit as GPS unit for my car.
Thanks!
reefrunway said:
Did you pick it up at an AT&T store? I am eager to check one out, as I plan to use the phone quite a bit as GPS unit for my car.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I did I am not normally one to buy accessories from ATT but I couldn't resist .
Samsung Dock
yes it's from AT&T and it's very nice.
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...=samsung&q_model=prod5100347#fbid=jy53eoHminq
AllTheWay said:
yes it's from AT&T and it's very nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does look pretty sweet.
Cool! I bought the home dock too for a nightstand.
very nice that samsung didnt drop the ball on this stuff this time. i am considering both docks.
Dani897 said:
very nice that samsung didnt drop the ball on this stuff this time. i am considering both docks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might go back and buy the home dock as well
I bought both as well. AT&T had special that if you buy two accessories you get the third free.
Infuse should arrive tomorrow so I'll be able to try them out. I have always used ProClip USA's mounts but will compare it to Samsung's. I currently have an adjustable adaptor that works with iPhone 3G and Captivate within protective cases. They have holders for naked units that fit perfectly, but it is a hassle to remove phones from Otterboxes only to put them back after short rides.
i just got the home dock but am returning it. the reason is that it is not flexible enough. it has a micro usb port but it will not pass through the usb connection to my computer so i can mount the sdcard or pass through mhl to hdmi. this makes it no more than a 40$ charger that holds the phone.
i have a bad micro usb cable that i plan to make into a jig that can trip the dock mode or other things. i can hack up the dock but would rather exchange it for the car dock. i also want to see how much a second mhl adapter is. i would like to make an all in one dock.
Car Dock application
I purchased a Infuse yesterday with the car dock. The only way we can get the phone to send audio out through the docks 3.5mm is by using the Samsung Car Home application. This application is lacking to say the least. I've tried CarHome Ultra and still no audio through the dock.
Is there a work around for this or another dock application that works?
Thanks,
JAFO
jafo5236 said:
I purchased a Infuse yesterday with the car dock. The only way we can get the phone to send audio out through the docks 3.5mm is by using the Samsung Car Home application. This application is lacking to say the least. I've tried CarHome Ultra and still no audio through the dock.
Is there a work around for this or another dock application that works?
Thanks,
JAFO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no methods that have been tested yet. there is an app for the sgs that can control it but it may need a kernel mod to work.
edit: try this https://market.android.com/details?id=net.muteheadlight.dockredir
let me know if it works
Does BT audio work when in car dock or do you HAVE to use 3.5mm jack?
AnyMal said:
Does BT audio work when in car dock or do you HAVE to use 3.5mm jack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All i use is BT audio when in the dock, it works amazing! The BT actually sounds good unlike the Atrix/Inspire did.
Media volume output seems too low through 3.5mm and bluetooth. Anyone share opinion?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA Premium App
bluetoothless said:
Media volume output seems too low through 3.5mm and bluetooth. Anyone share opinion?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the media volume at full, with BT using Music Player or Pandora I can keep my Stereo on 15 and it sounds nice and clear and loud. To get the same volume out of Sirius or the Radio I am usually up around 20. I haven't tried the 3.5mm jack.
crawlgsx said:
With the media volume at full, with BT using Music Player or Pandora I can keep my Stereo on 15 and it sounds nice and clear and loud. To get the same volume out of Sirius or the Radio I am usually up around 20. I haven't tried the 3.5mm jack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For all you guys out there, if your car is NOT bluetooth ready, I am currently using Grom Audio stuff....
Its freaking AMAZING! ALL audio goes through the bluetooth like watching a news cast with flash, watching a baseball game, and of course bluetooth calling. Its all plug and play and anyone can do it!
http://www.gromaudio.com/ipod.html
Is the one I got. Its does come with full ipod control cable, but meh.... I just use the bluetooth!
Hope that helps!
Dani897 said:
no methods that have been tested yet. there is an app for the sgs that can control it but it may need a kernel mod to work.
edit: try this https://market.android.com/details?id=net.muteheadlight.dockredir
let me know if it works
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey thanks, it works! But the only bad thing is that the sound is still bad. There is no BASS hardly at all compared to the sound the headphone port throws out. This is the same problem with the Samsung car dock app. Its like Samsung crossed the wires when soldering the wires to the port. It sounds like mono and not STEREO. I wish this could be fixed?
crawlgsx said:
All i use is BT audio when in the dock, it works amazing! The BT actually sounds good unlike the Atrix/Inspire did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't speak for Atrix, but Inspire sounds pretty darn good through my Parrot set up.
AnyMal said:
I can't speak for Atrix, but Inspire sounds pretty darn good through my Parrot set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I was looking at the Parrot setup before the Grom Audio.... The sounds outta the bluetooth is pretty good... Also you can hear the differences between the equalizer settings.....
I'm starting to see a number of USB-C to 3.5 headphone jack adapters on Amazon, though a great many of them have less than fantastic reviews and many reviewers indicated they don't work for specific phones. I recently saw one that was specifically indicated to work with the Moto Z, so I went ahead and bought. It came today and I am able to CONFIRM that it does indeed work with my Verizon Moto Z Force phone.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N7R8PWO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The USB-C adapter seems to fit well, and I'm getting audio from the Google Music player in both ears just fine. Just thought I'd share my results in case others were looking for working adapters. If you found one that definitely works with Moto Z as well, please share it here.
I'd be interested in finding out if anybody finds one which allows charging at the same time (some sort of USB-C to 3.5mm + USB-C adapter). Otherwise, my phone is useless on a road trip (running Waze eats the battery quick, and I like to listen to music via Aux In). I know that the Car Dock Mod allows this, but that's via the Mod adapter on the back of the phone and I need to use a Universal dock (wife uses an iPhone).
sn00gan said:
I'd be interested in finding out if anybody finds one which allows charging at the same time (some sort of USB-C to 3.5mm + USB-C adapter). Otherwise, my phone is useless on a road trip (running Waze eats the battery quick, and I like to listen to music via Aux In). I know that the Car Dock Mod allows this, but that's via the Mod adapter on the back of the phone and I need to use a Universal dock (wife uses an iPhone).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW, if you have a wireless charging mod, TILT makes a universal car dock with wireless charging: http://www.tylt.com/car-products/capio-car-mount
That'll leave the port open for the 3.5mm adapter. Waze will probably still eat faster than wireless will charge, but it should extend the time significantly.
I should probably read posts before responding to them. Please ignore. :]
rapdactyl said:
Incipio actually makes a really good vehicle dock mod that allows you to charge and has a 3.5mm output. Only mod I use regularly, it's ridiculously convenient. Crazy that it's not very well known, because it's easily the most useful Moto Mod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RIF. He mentioned the mod in the post you quoted. He also explained why it won't work for him.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
PiousInquisitor said:
RIF. He mentioned the mod in the post you quoted. He also explained why it won't work for him.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Derp, didn't read the original quote, my bad.
You get one with your phone though so does it matter if there are after market ones?
BlueForce64 said:
You get one with your phone though so does it matter if there are after market ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... What if you lose the one it came with? What if you want to have extras?
BlueForce64 said:
You get one with your phone though so does it matter if there are after market ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me it does. I don't want to carry it everywhere with me to get potentially lost or mangled in my pocket. I'd rather leave one at work, one in the car, and one at home.
I see. I actually only use mine in the car now for the aux input but otherwise I've already converted to Bluetooth headphones unfortunately. And no, not beats. Beats are terrible.
I found what claimed to be OEM Moto cables on Amazon and ordered a couple, but they are currently unavailable. I paid $7.58 each.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N0ZYNV8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I also ordered this one, which was made by a third party and was $6.99
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0GHUCW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I cannot speak to durability because I just received them in the last week, but all of them did at least work initially.