Database Info

Cyanogens Current State!

The current state..
The last few days have been difficult. What has become clear now is that the Android Open Source Project is a framework. It’s licensed in such a way so that anyone can take it, modify it to their needs, and redistribute it as they please. Android belongs to everyone. This also means that big companies likes Google, HTC, Motorola, and whomever else can add their own pieces to it and share these pieces under whatever license they choose.
I’ve made lots of changes myself to the AOSP code, and added in code from lots of others. Building a better Droid, right?
The issue that’s raised is the redistribution of Google’s proprietary applications like Maps, GTalk, Market, and YouTube. These are not part of the open source project and are only part of “Google Experience” devices. They are Google’s intellectual property and I intend to respect that. I will no longer be distributing these applications as part of CyanogenMod. But it’s OK. None of the go-fast stuff that I do involves any of this stuff anyway. We need these applications though, because we all rely so heavily on their functionality. I’d love for Google to hand over the keys to the kingdom and let us all have it for free, but that’s not going to happen. And who can blame them?
There are lots of things we can do as end-users and modders, though, without violating anyones rights. Most importantly, we are entitled to back up our software. Since I don’t work with any of these closed source applications directly, what I intend to do is simply ship the next version of CyanogenMod as a “bare bones” ROM. You’ll be able to make calls, MMS, take photos, etc. In order to get our beloved Google sync and applications back, you’ll need to make a backup first. I’m working on an application that will do this for you.
The idea is that you’ll be able to Google-ify your CyanogenMod installation, with the applications and files that shipped on YOUR device already. Or, you can just use the basic ROM if you want. It will be perfectly functional if you don’t use the Google parts. I will include an alternative app store (SlideMe, or AndAppStore, not decided yet) with the basic ROM so that you can get your applications in case you don’t have a Google Experience device.
I’ll have more updates soon as I get all the code hammered out.
Thanks for all the support thru all of this.
http://www.cyanogenmod.com/home/the-current-state

The stuff Dreams are really made of....
I knew! Where there's a will there's a way! You can't keep a real boss down! Cyanogen I look forward to playing with this new stuff in the works. Rage on brother rage on, I for one honestly didn't want to leave android really, but I will continue to research back-up plans in case Google has anymore monkey wrenches laying around itching to be thrown...Good luck Cyanogen. We all owe you donations...real recognizes real! Dueces

This is great news Thank you!

fkn awesome!

this exactly what i thought and hoped would happen. everyone got in a tizy over nothing. so we have to back up before we flash which is just another way that the basic moder like myself can better understand the phone.

Does this means we need to wipe every time we flash a new rom?

tomvleeuwen said:
What do you guys think of sharing the 4.0.4 version over p2p networks?
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Everyone already has it.

Great
This sounds good, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think they got upset when the new market app was released before they could get it out. They had to do something, but I think it will die down.

don't go there
tomvleeuwen said:
What do you guys think of sharing the 4.0.4 version over p2p networks?
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Cyanogen is doing his best to respect Google's legitimate copyrights, so suggesting that XDA get involved in distributing proprietary applications without a license only serves to undermine what is going on here. Mods: please remove.

ei8htohms said:
Cyanogen is doing his best to respect Google's legitimate copyrights, so suggesting that XDA get involved in distributing proprietary applications without a license only serves to undermine what is going on here. Mods: please remove.
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I posted this in another thread but it would seem to be pertinent to here too:
Loccy said:
Let's face it, strictly speaking, all ROMs are warez.
Personally I'm surprised that it wasn't the Hero devs who got into trouble first, but this was all just a matter of time. I never understood the bizarre fixation that cropped up recently with QuickOffice and everyone going "omfg it's warez can't include it in romz!!!111!1one!". Why QuickOffice and not, say HTC_IME, or Work Email, or any number of other binary blobs that ROM cookers include as a matter of course now that have been "acquired" from non-orthodox source?
The Hero ROMs, let's face it, give people a means of "turning" their old phone into the latest and greatest HTC device. Each stable Hero ROM on the Dream/Magic potentially means a Hero device purchase lost. HTC are being far more hit in the pocket than Google are here - which is why I'm surprised the cease and desist wasn't directed at them.
I do think, however, this site and the people who run it are going to have to pick a side at some point. Either the position is "this is a site for developers, and as long as copyrighted material is not hosted on here in a fashion that would make us liable*, we will not suppress the work of individual devs". Or, their position is "no copyrighted material in any form, be that in the form to links to offsite storage repositories (eg. Rapidshare), or any other method". XDA doesn't *need* to do this in order to ensure the site does not get into legal hot water. I suspect they *might* do it, however, as some kind of misguided moral stance (and in my view the QuickOffice preoccupation was an example of just this). But in my opinion if they choose the latter then XDA is over as a site for realistic Android ROM development (and indeed, Windows Mobile and other OSes, if they apply the same standards across all their boards).
* elaborating on what I mean here - if people attach zips directly to their posts, and those zips are stored on the XDA servers, then XDA as a site is potentially liable. Alternatively, if instead people give a URL or a search string whereby people can find a ROM, but those files are not physically stored on XDA, they are not - any more than Google is liable for the many copyrighted MP3s you can find links to via their search engine.
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The bottom line is that if ROM devs decided they were going to respect ALL legitimate copyrights, there'd be no Hero ROMs, no Windows Mobile ROMs, in fact no ROMs apart from barebones AOSP ROMs which do less than a stock ROM.
ei8htohms said:
Mods: please remove.
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And I'm sorry, that's just ignorant. Just because you don't agree with a sentiment doesn't entitle you to demand the mods remove it. If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.

kudos to cyanogen!

Loccy said:
If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.
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I think common U.S. practice is: if you speak freely, you get called names by people until you either cry or shoot them, thus proving to everyone that your original point is invalid.
But XDA has always had a policy of "if it doesn't get the site admins in trouble, it's probably ok." If memory serves, the site is in the Netherlands, and is subject to EU laws as to copyright, etc. I think that's important to remember when it comes to such things, since the EU laws as to intellectual property are in flux and not quite the same as those in the US or UK.
But the official policy is available in one of the toplevel forums here:
Flar said:
Hi Everybody,
We noticed that there is some confusion when it comes to posting sensitive material on xda-developers.com and mostly about what can and can't be posted.
We would like to clarify our point of view through this post.
Since the start of xda-developers this has always been a site that once in while has some sensitive material online, through the years this site has grown so big it's no longer possible to check every file on our servers or every post on the board, we also feel it wouldn't benefit the community if we did.
However with increased popularity comes an increased amount of legal complaints when sensitive material is found on our servers. Which is the reason why we have been more careful lately. Recently some sensitive material has shown up on the servers and we received legal complaints from companies who have the copyrights for this material, although we all feel this is very interesting and valuable material we cannot risk the future of xda-developers by ignoring the legal requests we receive, therefore this material has been taken offline.
We understand that maintaining the balance between legal and illegal is sometimes confusing and/or difficult but that is unfortunately how it works.
When it comes to posting sensitive material there are a couple suggestions we can make:
- if possible do not post the files on the xda-developers servers.
- use your common sense (if you feel something might not be legal it probably isn't).
- always keep in mind when posting software of any kind, that we will take it offline if there is a legal complaint from the copyright owner.
Warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery.
I hope this post will serve as a clear and valuable guideline.
Greetz,
Flar
Site admin.
P.s. When you have any questions you can always contact me or one of the moderators.
Last edited by Flar; 17th January 2007 at 10:14 AM..
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Everyone has an opinion, and they have, or should have, the right to decide for themselves what is correct. I am on the side of Cyanogen. I do not think what he did caused any harm or loss of revenue to anyone. We can not always have our way though, and I think that's the case here. I don't know him, but I do think he's smart enough to keep doing what he is EXTREMELY good at without putting himself in a bad position. It's just a stumbling block to get past. We are puting a lot of effort into pointing fingers and throwing around ideas, but if we placed this much energy into finding a fuctional solution, we might get past it a whole buch faster. A good army fights the war, not the battle.

Warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery.
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But every single ROM on here is warez to some extent or another! Certainly (just for example, I'm not picking on anyone specific here) Drizzy doesn't own the IPR for the contents of his Hero ROMs. I'm pretty sure the WinMo ROMs aren't being posted by Microsoft. If the policy is that "warez is in no way accepted and will be removed upon discovery", they're not doing much of a job, are they - every other post is "warez", if you take a strict interpretation.
I suppose I'm saying that "warez is in the eye of the beholder". I fully endorse the attitude "if it doesn't get the site admins in trouble, it's probably ok" - but I can't help thinking that relaxed attitude has been firmed up of late for whatever reason, given the QuickOffice oddness. I'm pretty sure no-one who own the IPR for QuickOffice was ever in touch (although do correct me if I'm wrong), so why the odd fixation recently?
Bottom line: stick to the attitudes and approaches that have made this site what it is, please don't start getting over zealous when there's no reason to.

Honestly did this need another topic though? I mean I'm all for good news like this, but add it on to one of the many topics that are out there. -.- (ready for flaming)

easy now
Loccy said:
The bottom line is that if ROM devs decided they were going to respect ALL legitimate copyrights, there'd be no Hero ROMs, no Windows Mobile ROMs, in fact no ROMs apart from barebones AOSP ROMs which do less than a stock ROM.
And I'm sorry, that's just ignorant. Just because you don't agree with a sentiment doesn't entitle you to demand the mods remove it. If the mods want to remove it they will (and in my view that would indicate which "side" they were choosing.) Personally, I don't know what it's like elsewhere around the world, but here in the UK one is at least allowed to speak freely, if not necessarily act freely.
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First off, I'm not demanding anything. I politely requested that the mods remove a suggestion that clearly seeks to circumvent the policies of XDA: We won't distribute warez. The poster knew the suggestion was specifically aimed at getting around the XDA policy, otherwise there would be no reason for a P2P distribution alternative in the first place.
A key component of intellectual property and copyright laws (at least in the US) is that the holder of the copyright must act to defend the copyright to some reasonable extent (no, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what this entails exactly). Now that Google has acted to defend their copyrights in these instances, the line is clear. Google apps are paid apps (licensed to the handset manufacturers or service providers) and are not free to distribute without a license. Consequently, there shouldn't be much further debate about the fact that these are warez and are not to be distributed on or through XDA.
I'm not trying to attack anyone (the original poster, ROM devs or certainly yourself), but I am interested in XDA maintaining the high ground here and continuing to operate in a respectful and respectable manner.

Perhaps we should stay on topic?

te5ter said:
Perhaps we should stay on topic?
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Fair point. Maybe we should take the "warez is in the eye of the beholder" debate to this thread. I do actually think it's a fascinating debate, personally. Oh, incidentally, just re-read my earlier post, and want to apologise to ei8htohms - I didn't mean to come off quite so brusque.

First, I'm very happy that there seems to be a workaround that Cyanogen feels comfortable in using.
However, I see it as a band-aid to a much larger problem. Yes, it addresses those few apps that Google specifically mentioned. But there seems to be potential future conflicts that could adversely affect this whole Android community.
What about all the other apps in there? The Camera/Camcorder/Gallery app for instance. The UI? Other HTC bits? And the biggie, the Search component? Does Google also lay claim to unified search, the widget, the particular framework involved in that?
I don't know the answer to that, I'm just asking. So much is left unanswered, I just feel this is only the beginning. For now, I guess it may be enough. But it still leaves so much up in the air.
Now the 2nd major issue: Cyanogen should be commended for taking the high road here and doing his best to adhere to Google's current request. I think we all know that there was never ever any question that no one saw this coming. It came from left field and shocked everyone beyond belief.
But will other rom devs be as diligent as Cyanogen? Will theme developers adhere to this? And with all of these added steps required to get a functioning "Google Experience", consider the flood of newbie questions this forum is about to endure. We all thought "brick" and "hardspl" questions were tedious at best ... prepare yourselves for the onslought of mass confusion. That fun has just begun.
I still believe the burden lies with Google to make this right. I'm not saying they should make their apps open source by any means. I'm just saying that there must be a way for Google to allow the inclusion of their apps (perhaps a different license or maybe some encryption trick that protects the apps from modification <I don't know, I'm not that smart>). Google needs to step up to the plate in this. They also need to save-face and stifle this PR nightmare. Android does not need this, Google does not need this, HTC does not need this, carriers do not need this, Cyanogen does not need this, and users do not need this. Growth of the entire Android project is simply too important. I see this as speed bump. They just made the bump too big and it needs to be shaved down some so everyone can get it over without damaging anything else.

this is great news indeed. can't wait to see what is to come!

ROM kingklick92 Froyo update

this is a kinkkling froyo rom.
Froyo for g1/32b is live get it here:
edited..
32b supported
i test on my mt3g and work fast
what works
almost everything
what doesn't works
camera
gps
flash

Dude, theres a reason Administrator's closed his other threads. Until they re-open those, what gives u the authority to link his roms ?. Ur prolly gonna get flamed

Dude...
Dude there's a reason that people come to this site. To get ROMs, and this is a ROM, a froyo ROM, that runs well. What gives you the authority to get up in everyone's business?

In before the close....
EDIT= I just re-read the post.and
"what works
almost everything" lmfao

Oh golly. Now I can't pick between FroYo and KiNgKLicK MT3G2G1 ROM!?

There was a gif perfect for this situation... It was of a dude rolling under a closing door with the text, IN BEFORE THE CLOSE! But I can't find it
But yeah, if the mods closed all of king's (take the possessive with a grain of salt) rom threads, what makes you think it's a good idea to post one of his kangings here?

auto-complete doesn't work either.
nor jit.
nor anything but T-mobile APN's.
the gapps icons are small (though at least its not the one where the gapps icons are normal sized but market keeps force closing...)
no fix_permissions
I think that's it for my list

Just a thought...
Did you know that if the people who run this site nitpick posts that they become legally liable for what is posted? I am in law school and have taken a number of IP classes. Boards that just let you say whatever and post what you want have no liability, but when you guys get like this you are now liable. So you better watch closely, because if someone posts links to stuff that infringes upon someone's IP YOU and your site are personally liable as if you infringed yourself.

mikechappars said:
Did you know that if the people who run this site nitpick posts that they become legally liable for what is posted? I am in law school and have taken a number of IP classes. Boards that just let you say whatever and post what you want have no liability, but when you guys get like this you are now liable. So you better watch closely, because if someone posts links to stuff that infringes upon someone's IP YOU and your site are personally liable as if you infringed yourself.
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too long; did not read

xjjjay said:
too long; did not read
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Twas a boring read anyway. I want my 20 seconds back!

mikechappars said:
Did you know that if the people who run this site nitpick posts that they become legally liable for what is posted? I am in law school and have taken a number of IP classes. Boards that just let you say whatever and post what you want have no liability, but when you guys get like this you are now liable. So you better watch closely, because if someone posts links to stuff that infringes upon someone's IP YOU and your site are personally liable as if you infringed yourself.
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So... you're saying don't moderate the boards? Whaaa?
Forum Rule #12
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.

mikechappars said:
Did you know that if the people who run this site nitpick posts that they become legally liable for what is posted? I am in law school and have taken a number of IP classes. Boards that just let you say whatever and post what you want have no liability, but when you guys get like this you are now liable. So you better watch closely, because if someone posts links to stuff that infringes upon someone's IP YOU and your site are personally liable as if you infringed yourself.
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cool story bro

APJG said:
cool story bro
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I can't believe how appropriate that was. I lol'd

Jigga0o7 said:
So... you're saying don't moderate the boards? Whaaa?
Forum Rule #12
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
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POW!!!! what law school u went to again? someone got told !!! lmfbao!!

xjjjay said:
There was a gif perfect for this situation... It was of a dude rolling under a closing door with the text, IN BEFORE THE CLOSE! But I can't find it
But yeah, if the mods closed all of king's (take the possessive with a grain of salt) rom threads, what makes you think it's a good idea to post one of his kangings here?
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dcowboys2184 said:
POW!!!! what law school u went to again? someone got told !!! lmfbao!!
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Actually, that rule and the "law" quoted do not conflict. Whether the accused broke the rule or not, the moderator(s) may still exercise a "take down". The point being made with the "law" is that ANY "take down" on the part of the administration can be viewed legally as the ASSUMPTION OF LIABILITY, since it is evident that they ARE manipulating the content.
Now there are a couple of reasons why this "law" is irrelevant:
1) The forum administration did NOT perform a take-down. They simply LOCKED THREADS.
2) LAWs are only valid in the jurisdiction where the law applies. Now we have someone's interpretation of a law (or interpretation of multiple laws), but (1) we don't know where that someone lives, and (2) we don't necessarily know the jurisdiction of this FORUM. The domain name itself is registered to "Domains by Proxy, Inc." the IP is registered to an online hosting service.... so just try holding them to anything -- you'll probably find a proxy "owner" in some crazy place like Russia.

A fat woman walks into her doctors and asks "Doctor what's the easiest quickest way to loose weight?"
The doctor replies "Shake your head from side to side."
Looking puzzled the fat woman asks "How will that help me loose weight?"
Looking the woman in the eye he states "Try it everytime someone offers you food!"
What does this have to do with anything going on here?
Bugger all but figured it rude of me not to at least show my face

Stop that !
Back to business Folks
This is not a playground for kiddys that love to flame and kick each others bootys right ?
So, what works, and what is broken ?
How does it compare to the french rom ?
Testing right now ...

Thread locked. User is being investigated. Please do not republish his roms.

State of XDA and Tbolt development, without link to blog

Alright - there's been some concern about me link baiting for traffic to my blog. I don't really care much about traffic to my blog whatsoever (no, I don't get any ad revenue), so I'm reposting the entire post, in its entirety, without any links back to my blog.
It's inflammatory, but I think there's suggestions that should be considered. I'll post some of the suggestions in here on the XDA suggestions thread, too.
TL;DR: Cowboys suck (even if they contribute tons of code upstream, witholding source code "until it's ready" for an OSS project is disingenuous at best), the XDA forums are *okay*, but the flat comment format that most, if not all forum software impose is completely outdated (look at Reddit and mailing lists for inspiration), and other OSS communities have largely figured out how to separate user/developer communication lines without hiding anything from anyone.
Without further ado...
---
I've been a member of the XDA Developers Forums for a few months, and after following development forums for various phones (mostly the Nexus S and the HTC Thunderbolt forums), I've concluded that the XDA Developers forums suck. Perhaps an even stronger claim is that the Android developer community sucks, but I won't be defending that claim in this post.
So, why do the XDA Developers forums suck?
For one, the purpose of the forums is to centralize discussion and cooperation of development projects for Android. Based on what I've seen so far on the Nexus S and Thunderbolt forums, I believe that the forums have largely failed at this task. ROM's are largely developed independently with about over half of the ROMs maybe sharing source code to the community, with the biggest offender being CM7 for Thunderbolt (the source code for most of the OS is shared to the public, but the most important part that adds support for the Thunderbolt's radio will not be open sourced "until it's done.") Worse, there's a lot of prima donnas in the community - in most other dev communities, most of the work is done in teams, though there may be benevolent dictators or celebrities (but almost none of the things that are present in the XDA community - witholding of source code and "heroism.") As much as slayher has contributed to the community, it's telling when you see CM7 on Thunderbolt completely contingent on him finishing his radio interface layer code, and having to go to a channel called #slayher for CM7 Thunderbolt support. Who the **** creates a channel based on their handle for a software project?
Not only that, but the discussion that does take place on the forums around development is almost always centered on end user support. Many other communities solve this with mailing lists in order to help focus branching topics in a thread (most forums are notoriously bad at this, given that the default view in most forums and the way that a forum focuses your conversation often defaults to a flat hierarchy of posts.) Any relevant developer discussion is drowned in a sea of user support questions, and I would not blame anyone who wishes to take their conversation elsewhere.
What I propose as an alternative is the following:
* A site that is an aggregate of mailing lists for various phones, software projects associated with each phone, etc.
* User support may be provided on this same site on forums, like how XDA is setup right now. The only difference is that dev discussion is separated into mailing lists (and make it crystal clear that any developer related discussion should be posted on the mailing lists.)
* This site should not post anything that doesn't have any source code freely available under the GPL/BSD/Apache/etc. licenses.
EDIT: There's a couple of things I want to address:
"Why are you complaining? The developers put a lot of time into making these ROM's!"
I'm not complaining about the devs creating software - in fact, I recognize that they've put a lot of hard work in writing these ROM's. However, there's a problem with how development is done: there's a lot of cowboys in the community who bring out the "I have a family" card when they don't try to avail themselves of responsibility by releasing their code and letting others contribute in a meaningful way. In a lot of other OSS projects, there's not a lot of that going on - people contribute, things are documented, and there's a process to merge changes in.
I want to contribute to the CM7 Thunderbolt project, but the outstanding issues largely have to do with the RIL code, which is not even available!
"Why don't you develop your own ROM?"
Because my expertise isn't squarely in Android development. I'd rather contribute fixes to a project in order to get myself acquainted, then maybe I can think about developing my own ROM.
Linus' Law: "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow."

im sure people have reasons for what they do. prepare to be flamed.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App

If you think CM is doing is wrong then hold Google to the same standard. They release their code when they think it's ready. This also applies to Linux, and Mozilla. Get off your high horse. It's impatient people like you that makes the community the way it is.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

Patience is a virtue guess that's something you never heard in your life. But yeah cool story bro...

I'm not saying I agree with Google's model, either. In fact, I think Google's sense of "open" kind of sucks, from the POV of someone who contributes to a lot of OSS projects (not large contributions mind you, but contributions nonetheless.) I patch things, they get merged into trunk, and the group agrees to cut a release once it's ready. This is different from waiting on one guy to release code "when it's ready" so people can contribute - it's frustrating, because everyone knows how busy he is (and, understandably, people want to help out to get things done faster *and* not have him be the sole person to go to), yet he keeps his cards close to his chest at all times for an OSS project.

Only the kernel is FOSS (GPL), and you have a legitimate complaint there. The Android community does a very poor job of making modified source available.
OTOH, the rest is (mostly) Apache license, so there's no requirement for releasing modified source. It's against the general spirit of things, but legitimate.
There are also a lot of prima donnas around. The ability to modify some header files and compile a kernel, or to do a cosmetic re-skin doesn't make one a "developer." The changes made simply don't rise to that level.

You've had some extremely productive posts, all 11 of them are filled with wonderful contributions...thank you!

There's more than just him working on it. He may be the lead, but he isn't the only one working. If you don't like it that way you can easily get the AOSP and do it your way. There is no one stopping you. If your way is truly better you should be able to go ahead of the pace CM is doing.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

So because your experience with the Thunderbolt and Nexus S forums has sucked, you think you can group all of XDA together? And anyone is welcome to help Slayher if they want or can, I'm sure if you just ask he'd be more than happy to have some help.
And unless you are going to go help him with this,no one cares what you think.

hey dude. your a noob.
STFU until you know what your talking about.
Nuff said.

mike.s said:
Only the kernel is FOSS (GPL), and you have a legitimate complaint there. The Android community does a very poor job of making modified source available.
OTOH, the rest is (mostly) Apache license, so there's no requirement for releasing modified source. It's against the general spirit of things, but legitimate.
There are also a lot of prima donnas around. The ability to modify some header files and compile a kernel, or to do a cosmetic re-skin doesn't make one a "developer." The changes made simply don't rise to that level.
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Thanks - this is the first reasonable post so far.
The spirit is what I'm mostly arguing for - I want to see an open development spirit that's adopted by most GPL projects, whether or not it's an Apache/BSD/GPL/etc. open source license.
I know, you're not legally bound to share your code, but for the sake of the overall community, it'd benefit *everyone*, including other ROM authors, to open code, even if it's not done. Why? So others can help your project out, and so you don't have to stress out all of the time on a free project.

merc248 said:
but the most important part that adds support for the Thunderbolt's radio will not be open sourced "until it's done.")
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If you have really done OSS development in the past, then you should know what some parts of code are held back until they're done. It keeps people from unnecessarily forking a project and watering it down or doing more harm than good (people complaining something doesn't work [because they will as they do]). Slayher doesnt do all the work. Again, if you follow the OSS community, CM has a similar relationship as the Linux Kernel itself does. One guy is the top figurehead of the project (Slayher for CM and Linus for Linux). However, each has many other people that contribute and add to the development (just go look at the code repository for CM and see who's committing, it's not just Slayher). Basically it just comes down to Slayer has final say on things, just as Linus does for Linux.
merc248 said:
A site that is an aggregate of mailing lists for various phones, software projects associated with each phone, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mailing lists? What are we in, the 1990s? I suppose we should open up a usenet group while we are at it. That's not a step forward, that's a step backwards. I agree that forums aren't really made for bringing together discussion and development, but a mailing list is way worse. Perhaps the biggest contributer to the forums being as they are is the forum software, vbulletin. It's not exactly the easiest thing in the world to mod and extend, just from my own experience of using it. For example, the presentation layer of it and css files are all stored within the database with no easy way to access besides some horrible gui that no developer would really want to use. You can force it to dump out the css and use the files for modification, but to modify the other parts of the presentation (xhtml, xml, etc), you have a much harder time doing.
merc248 said:
This site should not post anything that doesn't have any source code freely available under the GPL/BSD/Apache/etc. licenses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I guess we should throw out the forums discussing the iphone, windows phone and such, since those devices use things not under open source licenses. Even android kernel is not totally open source (the drivers have some binary blobs). The first phone with a totally open source kernel just came out (samsung galaxy s2).
I am by no means an android guru (and I make mistakes) and I am learning everyday, but I can say that you don't have all the answers and the ones you have, don't really seem to solve much.

yareally said:
If you have really done OSS development in the past, then you should know what some parts of code are held back until they're done. It keeps people from unnecessarily forking a project and watering it down or doing more harm than good (people complaining something doesn't work [because they will as they do]).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what I say in that case? **** the complainers. Open the code and accept patches from anyone who has not only followed the guidelines that you've set for your project, but also actually fix whatever bug (for the very tiny amount of OSS code I've written from scratch, I usually accept any reasonable pull requests - a lot of larger projects I've seen usually require a ticket in JIRA or Redmine.)
Slayher doesnt do all the work. Again, if you follow the OSS community, CM has a similar relationship as the Linux Kernel itself does. One guy is the top figurehead of the project (Slayher for CM and Linus for Linux). However, each has many other people that contribute and add to the development (just go look at the code repository for CM and see who's committing, it's not just Slayher). Basically it just comes down to Slayer has final say on things, just as Linus does for Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That, I didn't know. The way it's presented, it sounds like slayher and very few other people are usually the ones credited with all of the work, but to be honest, it sounds like slayher is doing all of the work (and given that the RIL code is not even open sourced yet, I'm not convinced that anyone else is really working on *that*.) In that case, how would I figure out what outstanding bugs are in the CM7 build? Any small bugs that a junior dev would be able to tackle?
Mailing lists? What are we in, the 1990s? I suppose we should open up a usenet group while we are at it. That's not a step forward, that's a step backwards. I agree that forums aren't really made for bringing together discussion and development, but a mailing list is way worse. Perhaps the biggest contributer to the forums being as they are is the forum software, vbulletin. It's not exactly the easiest thing in the world to mod and extend, just from my own experience of using it. For example, the presentation layer of it and css files are all stored within the database with no easy way to access besides some horrible gui that no developer would really want to use. You can force it to dump out the css and use the files for modification, but to modify the other parts of the presentation (xhtml, xml, etc), you have a much harder time doing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only bring up mailing lists because they do one thing really really well: threading. Google Groups is a nice middle ground, since it provides an email interface, plus you can search for stuff pretty easily on a web frontend.
The other site I've seen that does comment threads really well is Reddit - I don't think it's feasible, however, for software development teams to use Reddit as a means of communication.
So I guess we should throw out the forums discussing the iphone, windows phone and such, since those devices use things not under open source licenses. Even android kernel is not totally open source (the drivers have some binary blobs). The first phone with a totally open source kernel just came out (samsung galaxy s2).
I am by no means an android guru (and I make mistakes) and I am learning everyday, but I can say that you don't have all the answers and the ones you have, don't really seem to solve much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, absolutely not! In fact, the forums should stay - I'm saying that to coordinate actual development work, mailing lists/Google Groups/whatever should be used instead, paired with something like Github or whatever. For example, it's confusing as hell to go through the single CM7 thread to find any relevant information concerning actual development - there's sometimes disperate threads here and there about workarounds that people have found, but it's incredibly confusing to follow sometimes.

merc248 said:
That, I didn't know. The way it's presented, it sounds like slayher and very few other people are usually the ones credited with all of the work, but to be honest, it sounds like slayher is doing all of the work (and given that the RIL code is not even open sourced yet, I'm not convinced that anyone else is really working on *that*.) In that case, how would I figure out what outstanding bugs are in the CM7 build? Any small bugs that a junior dev would be able to tackle?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure they would be glad to accept and review any patches contributed. Anyone can submit code, but it has to be reviewed and approved.
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=Howto:_Use_the_Issue_Tracker
http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmod/issues/list (issue tracker)
http://review.cyanogenmod.com/#q,status:open,n,z (code review)
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=Howto:_Gerrit (how to post patches for review)
Cyanogen also has forums btw, not just a channel for help and support:
http://forum.cyanogenmod.com/
I really think you should review the CM community a bit closer. It seems like you didn't really examine it overly deep (I found all the links except the code review/forum with a 5 minute google search; the code review link I was aware of before just from my own browsing).
Also, if you really want to blame someone for the RIL issues, blame HTC, since they didnt give the source to the RIL on the phone (nor do they give the source to any of the changes they make to the android framework and htc sense).
Just random info on how the RIL is implimented on android. Android source comes with a generic one for GSM (3g and before) and then vendors just extend it for their own needs.
http://www.kandroid.org/online-pdk/guide/telephony.html

tl;dr
cool story bro...

Thanks for the links - I do know that CM has a set of forums, but didn't know they had an issue tracker and a code review site.
However, a search on the issue tracker turned up one result for Thunderbolt:
http://code.google.com/p/cyanogenmo...on Model Network Owner Summary Stars Priority
... with a comment on the bottom offering no support for the TBolt until it's actually merged in CM7.
Argh. :\

g00s3y said:
tl;dr
cool story bro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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...Sorry. I found it and couldn't resist.

+1 for mailing lists suck. I chuckled at the "why not just start up a usenet group" joke/comment.

Seems like there are a lot of other Android forums a guy could visit, if he doesn't like this one.

Attn RDs: Win a CuBox from Solid-Run

Want to get started developing for these cool Android Stick Computers? Let us know your idea, and you are automatically entered for a chance to win one of three CuBox units, thanks to the kind generosity of Solid-Run!
Note: This contest is open to Recognized Developers who live in the US and UK only. Winners will be selected by myself and Elite Recognized Developer AdamOutler. More details will follow in the associated XDA Portal post, so be sure to check out www.xda-developers.com .
Good luck to all who enter!
Edit: Contest is now live! http://www.xda-developers.com/android/win-a-cubox-from-solid-run/

Aww.. I'm selecting? I was going to enter and offer to develop a way to brick one seeing as how their website says they're Unbrickable for developers.. Sounds like a challenge. Someone else do this for me

I would consider toying with XBMC, linux, android or whatever i can toy with on it and look at trying to do an AOSP/Cyanogenmod build on it if its possible. Its very low powered, but appears to have some kernel source available. Is it feasible to be done? no idea. Would have to take a shot at it to find out.
Thanks,
-h8rift
EDIT: Just re-read Adam's note...yeah i'm sure i'll brick it along the way and let you know how it goes, hehe.

I just got the acceptance letter for RD a couple days ago (proof, I'm also sure a member of the developer committee could confirm this), but it's not set on my profile yet.
What I'd like to try with the box is getting an interface set up on it to use it as a car stereo with a touchscreen mounted in the dashboard. I've set up a similar system with an old netbook I have, but power requirements for the netbook raise some issues, mainly with draining my car battery. A lightweight ARM system could largely mitigate, if not completely solve this issue.
There are also space issues. I would like something that I can mount to the back of an LCD and have in a contained easy-to-remove unit, instead of having to run power and VGA cords through my dash.
I also would like to use it as a system for managing my door locks, with a USB keypad possibly stuck in the back of my truck bed, where I can enter a pin and have it lock/unlock my doors. I would also like to try to use a fingerprint scanner to unlock the doors.
Here's some pictures of what I have now:
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4 Don't worry, I've cleaned the wiring since then
Picture 5 XBMC with a modified Xeebo skin. This is the best media player I've found for the job. I was using Winamp at first, but XBMC has cool visualizations and whatnot.
Picture 6 Closer up, I've since filled in that top metal bar with a sharpie
Picture 7 Cleaner wiring, though still a bit messy. Note that my truck is old enough that I don't have a passenger airbag.
Not shown: I've got an acutator in the driver-side door, and a circuit that I built to accept TTL-level voltages and trigger it (essentially two relays making an H bridge, powered by two transistors that get set high by the TTL input. Both relays are ground open and charged closed, so I can set either one high and control the actuator)
Edit: Just to note, I had previously designed this to work with a RPi, but I found it a bit lackluster and not fast enough for what I wanted. Not to mention it inexplicably died one day.

Hello everybody!
First I need to say, that I'm from Hungary, not from US or UK, but I'm really interested in this, so I give it a try. (I can pay for shipping if required.)
Android is my favourite OS, so I would like to make CyanogenMod configuration for this device first. When it's ready I would like to play with linux too and developing ROM's with ubuntu. I have access to the xda build server, so it will be a good pair for the developing.
I wanted to buy an RPi a long time ago, but I didn't have enough money to buy it. If I get one of three CuBox now, i won't betray XDA. All my development for/with this device will be public here.
Thank you for your attention!
atis112
PS: Unbrickable? As Adam said it's a challenge.
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Very nice! Looking forward to see what the devs can do with this baby
For all you that didn't read the Portal Post/OP: It's for Recognized Devs only!

Well, if I had one of these devices I'd work on Linux integration into Android.
So what does this mean:
Most developers have a separate machine for doing particular work on their devices, or even any kind of developing in general aside from their Android devices. With Android devices starting to become more powerful than my laptop (and cheaper than when I bought my laptop), we SHOULD be able to harness Android's underbelly to do more things like developing and compiling directly on them, on the fly, and on the go.
Some people suggest using Ubuntu or some other Linux distro for ARM, but that isn't always the most user friendly thing on a smaller screen. Unlike Android which we already know is pretty user friendly.
Now there are some applications that exist that create development type environments for Android but why not just create a toolchain to compile Linux applications for the Android OS so that they're compatible with the Bionic C library?
So in it's most basic form, I'd be making use of this box to test, create and integrate Linux programs into binaries that Android users can use to their hearts content
As for the technicalities, I have a US shipping address, so that won't be a problem.
and @Adam: you can be sure I'll check to see if it's really unbrickable. I have a thing for bricks.. I'm curious to see how unbrickable their "unbrickable" is. If there's a method, I'll publish it :silly:

Please abstent to post no RD members. Thanks

Just a quick question: Will this contest be ending at midnight tonight (and if so, what timezone)?

netham45 said:
Just a quick question: Will this contest be ending at midnight tonight (and if so, what timezone)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the plan. However, I am tempted to suggest that we extend the contest by another week to allow for a greater number of responses. What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?

willverduzco said:
That's the plan. However, I am tempted to suggest that we extend the contest by another week to allow for a greater number of responses. What are everyone's thoughts on the matter?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What more could be done to get more entries? It already had a news article posted.
That being said, I'd find it unfair towards myself and the other entrants if it was extended, since we entered during the timeframe it was initially supposed to last for.

Below are a few (of many) ideas I have had for the CuBox
A small headless server for my command center... err.. I mean house.
central file server, VPN server, webserver
Not sure if there is a stable xbmc distro, and if not, work on that.
Update server for my desktop/mobile applications
More on the development side of things, I'd like to turn it into somewhat of an all-purpose toolkit for Android devices and write a corresponding mobile application using the AOA protocol. I'm thinking somewhat along the lines of Adam's rooting box meets mskip's Samsung/Nexus toolkits. Also, working on bringing CyanogenMOD to it would be another priority.

netham45 said:
What more could be done to get more entries? It already had a news article posted.
That being said, I'd find it unfair towards myself and the other entrants if it was extended, since we entered during the timeframe it was initially supposed to last for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make a good point. The contest will close this evening, as originally planned.
Cheers.

So, the contest is over now, right? Know when the winners will be announced?

netham45 said:
So, the contest is over now, right? Know when the winners will be announced?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The contest is over. I will announce the winners in the next few days, after Adam and I take a look at the entries together.

willverduzco said:
Yes. The contest is over. I will announce the winners in the next few days, after Adam and I take a look at the entries together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I speak for all of us when I say thank you, Adam, and CuBox for this contest. Development toys/kits are always appreciated in contest form. We're all here because we love to tinker with things, understand how they work, and give that knowledge back to the community so others benefits from our experience.
Thanks again,
h8rift

Any news about this?
Sent from my HTC Desire X using xda premium

Was this just abandoned or what?

netham45 said:
Was this just abandoned or what?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When they get the time to go through this and decide who gets them, they'll post it here. And if they did abandon it, Will will let us know. Don't worry guys, just be patient.

Thanks to everyone who submitted.
I just wanted to thank everyone personally. Will is deciding who the winners are and hopefully will give you guys a response soon.
Some of your ideas are really interesting and I would like to see them come to life. I hope the winners will kickstart CuBox development and make the system open to everyone. I, also, hope no-one manages to brick the system otherwise we'll have to change our marketing!
I look forward to seeing the results and wish everyone good luck!
Regards,
Scott
Solid-Run Advertising

divestos.org website classified "dangerous / scam" by trend micro + lost security cert from macafee (edit: sites secure but the owner seemingly isnt)

Edit:
The site owner has request a reclassification from trend micro and as of November 30th 2022, it is now classified as safe via https://global.sitesafety.trendmicro.com and the lost certification is related to being poor and too proud to just admit so. (ok, thats a low blow. 1k a month (per owner) on a cert that use to be free is BS on McAfees part but the road to get to this conclusion was just stupid)
I noticed this when accessing aurora store with that repo enabled (offered by default) they offer privacy focused alternative apps and as well as a android ROM. I am a tech privacy /android / ROM whore and never seen something in this realm of content genuinely concern me.
via https://global.sitesafety.trendmicro.com/result.php
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Dangerous: The latest tests indicate that this URL contains malicious software or phishing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and their detailed classification is...
Scam: Sites that attempt to defraud a person or group after first gaining their confidence, used in the classical sense of trust. They often play confidence tricks to exploit typical human characteristics such as greed, dishonesty, vanity, opportunism, lust, compassion, credulity, irresponsibility, desperation, and naivety.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wanted to initially assume false-positive or even more tin-hat, like a security company abusing their trust to assist google sustain analytics but this is too unique / unpopular and yet a specific.block
Doesnt help that it also lost (not never had) its Trusted rating with McAfee Secure with requests the owrner contact them.
there is not too much chatter about it on reddit or here beyond old(ish) roms and current updates (nothing reassuring, sadly)
looked into the websites github and code but ithere is so little discussion/feedback about the consistent changes and im not specialized in web cert/security classification guru. All I do know is i go to a lot of privacy focused apps, install all the privacy/ foss f-droid repos and never seen this before.

This is my project and dates back to 2014:
History - DivestOS Mobile
divestos.org
News - DivestOS Mobile
divestos.org
I've numerous contributions in many other open source projects you are likely to already be using. See:
About - DivestOS Mobile
divestos.org
Build software better, together
GitHub is where people build software. More than 100 million people use GitHub to discover, fork, and contribute to over 330 million projects.
github.com
You can also see all of my many FOSS projects available at https://divested.dev
These two forum threads have over 1000+ comments combined:
DivestOS: long term device support with enhanced privacy and security
I am releasing DivestOS. It is an aftermarket system for many devices. Based on LineageOS with many security and privacy features. Unmodified F-Droid is included. Site: https://divestos.org Source: https://github.com/divested-mobile (also mirrored on GitLab) Credits...
forum.f-droid.org
Divested-WRT: No-nonsense hardened builds for Linksys WRT series
Hello! Here are my simple, no-nonsense, UNOFFICIAL builds of OpenWrt for the Marvell-based Linksys WRT devices. I've maintained these between 2015-2016 and again since mid-2020. Configs and patches are obviously included. Builds are here and via onion service here Changelog is here Git...
forum.openwrt.org
There also used to be a list of sites where people talked about it:
DivestOS-Website/wild-3p.txt at ac002b46e05fb255ed96adc787efe216085b9f24 · Divested-Mobile/DivestOS-Website
The DivestOS website. Contribute to Divested-Mobile/DivestOS-Website development by creating an account on GitHub.
github.com
DivestOS is also listed on PrivacyGuides (previously PrivacyTools) here https://privacyguides.org/operating-systems/#mobile_os
You are welcome to verify what you see, but please kindly don't spread FUD about a project I've spent many thousands of hours on these past years.

You are welcome to verify what you see, but please kindly don't spread FUD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Poor choice to use FUD ("Fear, uncertainty, and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear." - the wikipedia definition to defend your project, especially on things that bring up serious concern about it. That, paired with the info dump you gave that addressed none of the issues I brought up.
I am not qualified to "validate" anything you show me, which is why I brought it up here in hope professionals would be able to weigh in. I saw your name but didn't tag you because I was certain you would just get defensive and take it as an attack, which it is not. it is a concern. I also didnt do it because You really dont ask the one being labeled a scammer if they are one..
The fact you still took it as one and did nothing to address the the 2 major security companies showing valid concern over the website.
I've numerous contributions in many other open source projects you are likely to already be using
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
weird way to humble brag and again, nothing about them relate to the post I made. you not addressing anything i put forward just makes me even more concerned. Again, there are many similar projects (some much more popular in use) and none of them have the issue your website seems to have.
Why not address the claim by Trend Micro?
How could they confuse your link as a scam when that is not a false positive they do much, if ever?
Are you planing on contacting McAfee to get your sites cert back?
Why did you lose it in the first place?
They definitely seem interested in you contacting them, why not do so?
If you reply again, please address anything about the specific and valid issues brought up in the post and not just try to defend yourself by listing off your work history.

I honestly do not care at all what Trend Micro or McAfee's automated blackbox systems have classified my websites as.
Nor am I going to install Windows and install their anti-virus programs just to refute their claims.
McAfee literally charges minimum $1000 a month for that nonsensical "certification" https://www.trustedsite.com/certification/start if your site has "more than 500 visits a month". divestos.org is averaging between 20k and 35k page hits a month.
which is why I brought it up here in hope professionals would be able to weigh in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd gladly welcome a free audit of my work.

"I don't care" isn't an answer to any of the questions. listen, I don't care. I don't use your stuff nor like or dislike anything related to you, your project. The only reason I even posted it is the fact this is the only website I've come across in my 25+ years of FOSS obsession to have 2 major security companies suggesting something is wrong.
the fact you still didn't answer the questions nor care doesn't bode well. you really should care
I'd gladly welcome a free audit of my work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 major security companies did and that's why this post was made. Hellloooo???!

applyscience said:
"I don't care" isn't an answer to any of the questions. listen, I don't care. I don't use your stuff nor like or dislike anything related to you, your project. The only reason I even posted it is the fact this is the only website I've come across in my 25+ years of FOSS obsession to have 2 major security companies suggesting something is wrong.
the fact you still didn't answer the questions nor care doesn't bode well. you really should care
2 major security companies did and that's why this post was made. Hellloooo???!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, they did not audit what I offer.
That is not at all what an audit is.
The Trend Micro is a false positive, and I've already asked them to reclassify it.
The McAfee certification is a *PAID* service, that costs over $1,000 a month and is for websites to have a silly badge on their website. Never have I paid for it or asked for it or can even afford it. Why would I in my right mind burn $1,000 a month for a badge.
Please stop wasting my time.

SkewedZeppelin said:
No, they did not audit what I offer.
That is not at all what an audit is.
The Trend Micro is a false positive, and I've already asked them to reclassify it.
The McAfee certification is a *PAID* service, that costs over $1,000 a month and is for websites to have a silly badge on their website. Never have I paid for it or asked for it or can even afford it. Why would I in my right mind burn $1,000 a month for a badge.
Please stop wasting my time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it not you who is wasting your time?
Your input was neither requested nor required for the OP's stated purpose.
OP sought input from respondents -if any- and it would seem that it is your intent to waste his/her time.
Perhaps let this play out as it will. If you are confident in your truths then fear not the illuminations.

Trend Micro has since reclassified divestos.org as:
"Safe / Computers / Internet;Noteworthy"

SkewedZeppelin said:
Trend Micro has since reclassified divestos.org as:
"Safe / Computers / Internet;Noteworthy"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that.
A step in a positive direction for your endeavors, no?
Something you've changed or explained via a convincing communication with them?
Or do they just whimsically impose/rescind such judgments sans explanation to those affected?

The McAfee certification is a *PAID* service, that costs over $1,000 a month
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that makes sense to stop using it, especially when it use to be free, but why did it take your 3rd response to the topic to get to there?
Trend Micro has since reclassified divestos.org as:
"Safe / Computers / Internet;Noteworthy"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. thats great.
2. so you DO care and requested a reclassify request. Why was that so hard to just admit to? Why did everything you reply with say one thing yet your actions do another? you could have just said "thats not good but i assure you its wrong and will request them to change it" hell, i even said mcafee was
Please stop wasting my time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
************, YOU came to ME. I brought up a concern and specifically didn't tag you because I was looking for input form others as you dont ask people labeled scammers if they are one.
You're whole reply could have been
"**** Mcafee, they want money now but ill put a request into TM. Not a concern for myself but it only takes 10 seconds and dont want any potential users to be concerned"
jesus christ