Related
Take it with a grain of salt. But it sounds mildly legit.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=913045
edit: actually i call b.s.
whiteguypl said:
edit: actually i call b.s.
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Why? I have no firm opinion one way or the other, but just saying "bull****" really doesn't mean much unless you're playing the card game.
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Open source doesn't mean free.
I'm inclined to believe it. It makes more sense than trying to say they have been testing it for months. I've had my captivate for 6 months, almost 5 of them running FroYo thanks to the awesome devs here. Has the froyo always been stable and fast? No. But the devs don't work for Samsung with all the resouces, they are doing it in their spare time. I would bet Samsung had a fairly stable, almost complete version of FroYo ready before the phone released.
I am really getting tempted by the Atrix, apart from the awesome hardware and webtop app, Motorola devices get updates. But, they sound harder to flash custom ROMs, so its a give and take. Based on what I saw on the CES coverage, going with only official software may not be so bad.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using XDA App
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
Even if thus is true, both AT&T and Samsung have all ready made too many mistakes. Both will lose some business. Yes it won't be enough to hurt either but maybe all the pestering will make them rethink their business models. Probably not. My last Samschmuck phone on AT&T for sure.
Sent from a phone somewhere in the universe
ianwood said:
Makes no sense. Regardless if Samsung charges for feature updates or not, terms of the upgrades would have been set between carrier and Samsung prior to the first handset even being made. Thus outside of any major surprises (which there are none here) the carrier knows from day one what upgrades will be offered, when and at what cost. It's not like Samsung turned around weeks after the devices shipped and said, "Hey. That Froyo upgrade is gonna cost ya, buddy!" That would have been known long before contacts were signed.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
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This is the same point I tried to make on the thread. While Samsung may have been the ones to state that Froyo would come to Galaxy S, it may be that the carrier(s) decided to balk on the 2.2 update due to extra cost as probably stipulated by whatever contract they negotiated with Samsung.
If Froyo is already on Canadian carriers' devices (officially) why not U.S. carriers. Something reeks here.
While Samsung should have kept their mouths shut about the update, I'm sure a part is being played by the American carriers here.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
You are mixing up open source with free software. Ask Richard Stallman the difference
Also, I would imagine that they would not be paying Samsung for the software itself but more so the software development to tailor it to the carriers needs.
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
A.VOID said:
This sounds good in theory, but I think it has holes.
this would be the case for all phones on all carriers, but it isn't the same situation.
iphone updates are coming out all the time. With at&t subsidized out the butt on the iphone, I fail to believe they osu for all those updates.
I had a samsung blackjCk, and we went through the same thing with winmo, meanwhile other at&t phones got the updates.
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Click to collapse
AT&T has nothing to do with iPhone updates. Matter of fact, AT&T has nothing to do with iPhones at all, except sell them. All iPhone updates are done through iTunes and all iPhone support is handled by Apple. This is not a good comparison.
Even comparing WinMo doesn't really work. I had a Wizard on AT&T, and there was exactly one firmware update, even though there were other versions that were available later. Plus, Windows is not free and not based on open source code. So, carriers would expect to pay for updates with closed source operating systems.
Xaviorin said:
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released.
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If that were true, then Apple and AT&T would be facing some serious litigation. This is similar to the deals that Intel made with computer manufacturers, forcing them to slow leak AMD sales in order to sell more Intel chips. Intel paid quite a hefty fine and suffered a serious PR black eye. That type of practice stifles competition and is very, very illegal. So, I doubt that Apple and AT&T would even consider doing that.
Xaviorin said:
Id have to say honestly in my personal opinion based from facts from an inside source... At&t is so obsessed with the iphone anything that costs them money or time that doesn't increase profits is going to be set on the backburner... Att has a time of year called "Iphone season" where they push the new versions and updates of the iphone to customers.... Seeing as how froyo itself was already released for almost every device on OTHER carriers and att has yet to push a single update aside from the eclaire update i doubt it will ever be coming.
Not to mention if anyone has noticed att removed ALOT of stuff from the captivates before they were able to ship them to customers... for example the third party apk allow button is completely gone from the stock phones due to att and their restrictions and the market having apps that just don't show up becuase of the way att wants to now start locking down phones like apple. (not trying to bash anyone or brands but from what ive seen from someone who loves to customize and believe anything i pay for is mine and i should be able to do as i wish with said product that's how it is in my eyes)
I think that since they have the rage over the iphones (another reason they try to sell them harder then any other phone is because of the "vast amount of accessories" ) it feels like they fell on the band wagon of the craze instead of actually worrying about ALL of their customers. It just seems like since iphone updates are pushed to phone and att doesnt have to deal with them, not to mention if the phone messes up it goes to an apple store and not att.
I've also heard rumors from att employees stating that something was signed with apple to put restrictions on android updates and phones in order to allow exclusivity for the iphone when it was first released. As to the truth behind this, anyones guess is as good as mine. Just seems funny how No att phones have gotten the froyo update unless they've (the customer) installed it themselves.
I wouldn't be looking forward to any updates from what i've seen on my end.
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Click to collapse
Conspiracy theory much? Like someone said, your theories border on anti-competitive in practice. AT&T is also not so obsessed with the iPhone given how much they've diversified their smartphone portfolio in the past 9 months (+2 WebOS devices, +2 BlackBerrys, +3 Windows Phones, +5 Android devices).
I'm usually skeptical about these things, but this is about the only rumor that makes sense.
For those comparing it to the iphone, its like comparing oranges to apples. Apple pretty much takes care of everything on their side.At&t just peddles their product. Apple has a 400 person call center just for the iphone, next door to where I work.
Apple makes the hardware and creates the OS.
Samsung just makes hardware which is a good thing considering how bad their software engineers are at coding.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I'm more in the conspiracy theory side
Don't trust everything you read.
Thing about it deeply, what is more likely:
A Sammy employee risked his job, created an account just to create this post, and tell us the truth about the updates and how bad his employer is? seriously? What did he gain by doing this post? peace of mind? can he go to sleep now that he has revealed the truth of the US-only updates? Does really the Samsung employees care this much for only the US based users? This smells, and bad.
Now lets look at the conspiracy side. An AT&T employee notices our frustration against them. They see that seem to be more frustrated people are the non tech-savvy ones; that we got to admit they are more than us and represent a big number for them. On the other hand I bet they receive a gazillion calls from you guys on these subject.
Wouldn't be more likely than AT&T representative created that post to wash their hands and pass the blame to sammy? Isn't them who released a restricted phone and made a deal with Samsung saying that they will be in charge of this phone's updates? Samsungs cost in releasing an update of a phone that is almost equal to 6 other phones they released is null; whereas AT&T cost in updating their crap is high. Don't be blind. Carriers are the new tyrants. They will do anything in their power to get more money. If you could see what they are able to do in countries like mine you wont even doubt this. In my country of such a deal is made you can forget that you will ever get updates. There even is a carrier that, after 4 months passed that you have purchased a motorola's android based phone, charges you 10 uss monthly for MOTO BLUR, and this was written in the small print of the contract... seriously... I've seen carriers cancel their users contracts, saying they requested that, to bill them their contract-cancelation fee...
I could go on with this for pages... I've witnessed carriers lying, deceiving, and even more right in the people's face. If you want to check this, and know some spanish or use translators, just google "Claro hijos de puta" (sons of a...) or "claro estafa" (scam); both searches give more than 3 million results, and you wont imagine what you might find inside those pages...
This whole thing smells badly. And if I had to bet, I would say that post was made by a carrier to buy them time, or even to start making up an excuse so they wont ever release an update... after all, they would be the only ones that would benefit from such events...
I'm through waiting
This story was the final straw for me, whether it's true or not. I am tired of the drama and am no longer waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to deliver what AT&T told me would happen when I bought the phone. If AT&T store staff said something incorrect it was corporate's fault for not guiding their staff correctly. I was told shortly Froyo was coming, but it never came. Samsung said on Twitter/Facebook we all would have Froyo last year. There is no excuse for what they have done, none. I've waded through the myriad of 3rd party ROMs and was leery of the leaked Froyo ones due to everyone seemed to have an issue here or there. The 9000 ROMs sounded exciting but came with issues I didn't want. I just want a working GPS and a stable phone, running Froyo, what I thought I was getting last summer.
Now that Rogers released a North American ROM and the talented coders have seized upon it, we seem to be approaching a new level of stability with Froyo. After reading up on the various Rogers ROM based images I installed Cognition (donation coming later tonight) and after 30 minutes of playing around, I am home with Froyo now. I am beyond tired of waiting for AT&T and/or Samsung to do the honorable thing for they are not honorable companies. I doubt another Samsung will grace my pocket and yet maybe it will be the 3rd party coders that will ultimately deliver what I have waited patiently for, for months. Wouldn't it be a wonderful environment if Samsung would just release the source to everything and let those out here, those infinitely more talented than Samsung staff, have access to the code they need to work pure magic.
Billabong81 said:
How could Samsung charge for an open-source project update? Obviously they must make some modifications to make it fit their phones, but at its core, its still an open source program.
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Click to collapse
polarbee said:
Open source doesn't mean free.
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Open source comes under GPL license. This isn't the one that is of cost, but the efforts involved in packing for a device, its extensive testing is what is costly.
In the most simplest of terms, the following people would be involved:
Business Team x 3 people
Development Team x 6 people
Testing/QA Team x 10 people
To take care of these people:
Project Manager x 1 person
Team Leads x 3 people (1 for each team)
Taking this to 23 people, to say the least.
On an average, if we pay each person say $ 50k for 6 months effort, it would be $ 50,000 x 23 = $ 1,150,000 i.e., $ 1.15 millions for 6 months.
Now see, this is only the minimal scale. For a phone so wide spread, I would assume a team of atleast 50 where managers charge more than 100-200k a year.
Now u see why Samsung doesn't wish to put this kind of money into a phone already sold, and is looking into marketing newer phones.
I think its all hoopla.
This "leak" of sensitive information on one of many android forums is only going to reach the eyes of a hand full of readers.
We (the brave souls wanting new updates for our gadgets and willing to hack them to get it) are very few in numbers compared to the vast amounts of consumers who own this phone, and usually don't give a hoot about a new update/upgrade for their phones ROM, IF they even know what the heck it is. They only care that their calls and texts go through, and they can browse the web on their lunch break.
The ONLY issue that most would care about is the GPS issues we have had. And I bet that AT&T, and Samsung have both received tens of thousands of customer complaints regarding Mr. Joe Average not being able to find his way on his family vacation. Again, we are but a small number compared to that. I would think that alone would motivate something to happen, at least an OTA update to fix the GPS issues. Nope.
So other than an intellectual debate on "why haves", and "why have nots" on a forum like this, there is nothing else this message could possibly accomplish.
The above thread, and this one will slowly slide down the thread list and be forgotten and nothing else will change.
The Bottom Line
Rumors aside, if it doesn't sell more phones, minutes or data plans and it can be avoided without seriously upsetting customers, they won't bother. Outside of our merry band of flash-a-holics, what percent of Captivate owners even know what Froyo is or care?
Also, judging by the JH7 OTA debacle, Samsung's OTA upgrade capability is decidedly unreliable. I'd bet that caused a mountain of returns. AT&T HATES returns!!! Costs them a fortune. The cost of paying Samsung for a Froyo upgrade is a drop in the bucket by comparison. So a bad OTA system is worse than none at all. If AT&T can get away with avoiding it, they will.
I think our best hope is to make A LOT of noise! Complain to Samsung, AT&T and Google. Do it publicly on FB, Twitter, etc. Do it often. A small vocal group of XDA readers can probably stir up a decent amount of attention at AT&T if they coordinated their efforts.
I just think it is kind of weird right after at&t releases their two new android phones and new tethering plan, that our phone then the aria who have both waited for months get an update. Kinda seems like at&t was holding out on the updates. Anyone else agree this seems a little weird?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
+1
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
OK, this is just my opinion, but I believe that all the people that have been castrating Samsung about the updates are generally wrong, and that ATT was where things were being held up.
So, it's easy to castrate ATT for that but, really, it's easy for people that don't understand software/product support to pass judgement. Most people assume that ATT delayed things for commercial reasons so they could bloat/cripple the software. That may very well be true, but is it the only reason?
Assuming there are a couple million captivates out there, maybe ATT wanted to make sure they were able and ready to support the update of a couple million phones by generally retarded consumers that were going to create a huge demand spike for support when the upgrade was released?
Being in the software business, I know that software rollouts are not simply a matter of the software being ready. Having an infrastructure/ecosystem in place to support the software once it's rolled out is often as challenging as developing the software, and often just because the software is ready doesn't mean the business is ready to roll it out and support it. It may be as elementary as making sure you have enough capacity in your call centers to take the additional end-user support call volume generated by the update.
So, it's logical for me to believe that ATT set up an infrastructure and a plan that was implemented to support rollout of updates. It's also logical to assume that plan was intended so that the day it "went live" it enabled them to support multiple phone updates. The timing could certainly encompass dependencies/considerations on other elements of their business/infrastructure, including seemingly unrelated (to us) elements like support for tethering, etc.
I'm not necessarily defending all of these companies practices, and I really do think their communication could be better, but let's face it. Sometimes they are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they roll out something before they are ready they get berated because they released prematurely (see IPhones and network capacity and one reason so many people ***** about ATT). Or some updates fail and some phones get bricked and bloggers jump on them and try to ruin their reputation (see the recent WP7 first update). Or they try to communicate and people want specific dates and complain if they don't get them (see recent SamsungJohn/XDA debacle). If a date slips because of some unforeseen reason, people hold their feet to the fire over it.
So, is it coincidence that the Captivate and Aria updated at the same time, along with some other business elements like tethering? Probably not. Does it imply something insidious? Maybe, but I tend to believe it was along the lines of their project/implementation timelines based on the things they needed to put into place to support their customers and manage their business plans.
People, in general, VASTLY underestimate the amount of work that is required to set up an ecosystem to support end-users and roll out and release software/products.
Can Samsung and ATT do a better job of communicating? Absolutely, especially as it relates to the XDA audience. But consider this: maybe, from their business perspective, the number of people that ***** on the Internet are a miniscule (albeit very visible to us) percentage of their business/customers and although they are willing to spend some time to cater to that element, maybe their willingness only extends out a little bit because they think it only affects their business a little bit.
Just my $.02.
Bob
The FCC is opening its ears to public opinions on this whole takeover going down. Check out this article!
http://www.androidpolice.com/2011/0...-on-the-attt-mobile-deal-grab-your-pitchfork/
and here is the link where you can speak your mind, it is also linked in the article above!
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/upload/display?z=24j63
While the article states some more phone technical difficulties and how poorly ATT treats the android community, they also need to realize some equally bigger and some effects that will be instantly impacting everyone. The acquisition will leave ATT with too many stores and they will and have already stated that they will have to cut back the work force, I would speculate a good percentage, around 15-20% of the total workforce after they acquire Tmobile. This is going to be an instant loss in THOUSANDS of jobs across the US. Great, lets lay smore people off in this already ****ty economy, **** you ATT.
Imagine if ATT did not find a way to immediately integrate the current tmobile network into the current ATT network. This would mean all sorts of issues starting with new phones, many of the 34 million customers tmobile has will be forced to buy new phones. ATT just spent 39 billion dollars on a new company do you really think they are going to give everyone new phones of equal value to the ones they currently have? I would guess maybe similar deals to what are currently on the market if you sign a new contract and maybe an additional 50-100 dollars if you sign a new contract coming from tmobile. Not only that but how is the new network going to handle the instant surge of traffic into their network, an almost 40% instant increase in traffic! They can hardly handle their own traffic currently!
ATT is ultimately buying what they cannot earn or achieve on its own and a more liberal and customer friendly business model is threatening to what ATT wants. ATT continuously gets horrible reviews on their customer service where as Tmobile is continuously receiving outstanding reviews on theirs, again tmobile buying a model to maybe improve their own or just ultimately stomp out the competition so they don't look as bad. People cannot hate them if after 5 years of no tmobile they dont remember how the good days were.
ATT has slower and poorer network coverage than Tmobile, especially when it comes to "4g" and I use 4g loosely because it is not true 4g, however it is vastly further along than ATT's equivalent model for growth. Again, ATT cannot keep up so they are buying up.
Tmobile caters to android and the development of google's open OS model. Google has released all of their officially branded phones to work with tmobile's network because tmobile continues to support google, it has been a great mutual relationship. I owned a nexus one phone for tmobile and I remember the release of an ATT radio banded nexus one and it was like a whole other world for ATT users to be on a stock android device that was not locked down by the carrier at all.
These were just the first points that popped into my head... people rarely look past anything other than the phone and network incompatibility because that will effect them personally.
"The FCC works towards six goals in the areas of broadband, competition, the spectrum, the media, public safety and homeland security, and modernizing the FCC." The FCC does have to take into account large scale effects on the country such as tens of thousands of jobs going away as a result of the merger. Competition is a big factor in this because if ultimately this turns into a monopoly setting for ATT then the FCC looks like assholes in letting this go through and they will be in the middle of a huge judicial matter down the road. If the FCC feels that millions of customers will face a headache or extra financial burden by the merger than this falls under the public safety, protecting us from damages.
I encourage that if you do say something about the merger, be academic about it. 10 million people chiming in about ATT's ****ty customer service will not get anything done, the FCC does not give a rats ass about quality customer service or high dropped call rates, they are going to be focused on business model, economical impact in the present and future and ultimately the immediate effect on customers and any unnecessary financial burdens. This is a selfish act by ATT and they are covering it up with their bull**** about how they want to expand their network for the benefit of everyone.
147 comment/complaints!
i have made mine lets take advantage of our rights and tell the FCC how we REALLY FEEL!
THANKS FOR THE LINKS OP!
nate420 said:
147 comment/complaints!
i have made mine lets take advantage of our rights and tell the FCC how we REALLY FEEL!
THANKS FOR THE LINKS OP!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no problem man! this issue is bigger than, omg i dont want to deal with ATT, their ****ty customer service and ****ty phones...
What is the "proceeding number" and "filing number"?
What does my Front Facing Camera care about AT&T's acquisition of T-Mobile?
v8dreaming said:
What is the "proceeding number" and "filing number"?
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Click to collapse
11-65 is the proceeding number
read the andriodpolice link and then go to the fcc link!
MWBehr said:
What does my Front Facing Camera care about AT&T's acquisition of T-Mobile?
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Click to collapse
LOL @ the topic name
@ op can you edit the topic tittle to FCC not FFC lol
Thank you for this thread! I've posted my misgivings and although I'm sure it doesn't meet their request for it to be 'brief', it certainly outlined my biggest issues w/this travesty!
I also liked both this page and the article itself in Stumbleupon. I had thought about like the FCC page, but w/o an explanation, I know ppl wouldn't know what it was about.
If this unholy union takes place, all I can say is I hope they send me some lipstick, because as Cartman said, "... I like to look pretty before I get*bleeped*!"
nate420 said:
11-65 is the proceeding number
read the andriodpolice link and then go to the fcc link!
LOL @ the topic name
@ op can you edit the topic tittle to FCC not FFC lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL wow i totally did not even notice this either... proofreadfail
Voiced my disapproval of the deal.
I think I agree with the OP's statements on this matter. Especially his last paragraph. They want to get an idea of what their getting into before they make a final choice. If everyone just tells them how much they hate Att and how crappy their CS is, then your just wasting your time. They will prolly make it through the first sentence and discard your message. I would suggest being mature, direct - and by direct I do not mean demanding. Focus on the big picture rather than just how it effects yourself. They wanna make sure that they arent going to regret this, they dont want to be the ones that hurt thousands of hard working americans in such a wounded economy. With gas prices, real estate and tons of material costs and not to mention food prices raising more and more, the last thing they want is to screw the cellular economy also. I would suggest reading the whole original post and thinking before you hit the send button. Because I think these emails will have an impact on their decision, I would send one, but I am not a true t-mobile customer, although I will be shortly. I honestly hope this doesnt go through, I really dont like Att either, but also dont know t-mobile enough to give an honest, informed opinion. Good luck to us all. . .
Updated 09/6/12 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=31190482&postcount=81
This is a combined log of my attempt to get answers from Verizon and Samsung regarding the encrypted bootloader. I currently have a ticket with level III tech support at Samsung. It took a huge dog and pony show to get this far and I have had several forum members contact me asking to pass along info and ask questions when I finally get a hold of the right people.
I posted most of this in another thread, but it not where it should have been so I am moving it for a mod so we can keep that other development thread clean. Its 8am EST and Samsung Level III should be open in three hours as they are not staffed 24/7 like Level II/I.
For the record Samsungs Tech Support phone number is 800-726-7864
Just remember the rep you talk to regardless of what their position in the company is had no say in the encrypting of the bootloader. Its not their fault Verizon screwed us, please keep that in mind if you call. Using 5c technical words will get you past Level I but level II seemed to be on point. It took some manipulative games to get the guy to admit there was even a level III department; at first he told me level II was the highest I could go in tech support. Will update with more info when I have something.
I am also considering contacting the firm that handled the Motorola V710 lawsuit against Verizon years ago. We won that one and anyone who wanted got to trade in their phone and accessories for a full refund, no ETF, and if they wanted could also get a new device w/o extending their contract. I hate lawyers and would rather cut off my pinky finger then deal with them but it may be the only option in the end. Its like Verizon delivered us cake, then shot our dog and walked away. So mentally exhausted dealing with this crap.
Lastly, I was able to get a hold of Verizon corporate and had a low level executive call me back. This was before the device was released and we knew the bootloader was encrypted. She told me to save her number, and I am glad I did because once we found out about the lockdown I called her back and left VM. Should hear back from her Monday.
Verizon's Corporate Contact Info.
Verizon Corporate Office Headquarters:
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Corporate Phone Number: 1-212-395-1000
Corporate Fax Number: 1-212-571-1897
Original Post:
Ok, just an update. Level III Samsung tech support is not 24/7 like Level II/I. I have a ticket in the system regarding the issue and its been forwarded to Level III.
They will be in tomorrow (Saturday) from 8am (PST) to 7pm (PST) and I have to call back to get a hold of someone in the Level III department. I will keep dragging this up the chain of command till I can get some answers. Level II once again confirmed what we already know, Verizon did mess with the phone. Level II said don't bother with Fastboot because were not getting in that way. I don't know if he was lying but he seemed to know exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the odin/fastboot switch.
One more thing to note, I am not sure I believe him but he said that they sent the phones to Verizon, and its Verizon that did the messing around not Samsung. I find it hard to believe Verizon was able to do this without Samsung support.
I don't have high hopes of getting anything that will be able to help us out of Level III but I will try. They have also lodged a my customer complaint and supposedly I am going to be getting a call back from someone from their corporate office in consumer relations.
I wish I could help more on the technical side but my experience only takes me to the point where everyone else has gotten with fastboot. I am however quite the people person when it comes to making noise with corporations and will keep up the good fight with Verizon / Samsung Corporate.
If there is anything specific you want me to ask Level III send me a PM by tomorrow morning and I will address it with them when I call. I know enough that I should be able to at least hold a conversation with them on the subject but more ammo would be great. I would also be willing to conference call with a repeatable dev/mod when I call them so that you don't have to jump through the two hours of crap I just did to get this escalated.
Post 2: (A reply to a forum member asking for an update)
I asked them if there is a reason I can't get into fastboot and the guy said because Verizon has locked down the device. I asked him "how" and "why" but he was unable to provide me with an answer to both questions. He then referred me to Level III as he said they were the ones who could discuss how it was done. I asked him if there was a way around it through odin using .ops he went silent for a while and said he had no information to provide on the subject and just reiterated that Verizon has made changes to the device software and I would have to refer to them regarding those changes.
With regard to the "why" question he simply said that Samsung could not comment on carrier practices only that Verizon requested the lockdown and that the phones were sent to them first to have it applied. He made it sound like Samsung told them to go take a flying leap and Verizon went ahead and did it anyway. Again, were talking about a rep here so take it with a grain of salt.
I talked about the FCC's Block C agreement regarding carriers not locking devices but the rep said he did not have a comment on the subject as he was just tech support. Block C is probably the only legal course of action we have but despite the FCC saying they were going to enforce the rule, we all know how the FCC could give a crap.
I am going to flat out ask Level III to do the right thing and leak a file for us to fix the issue. I may be nuts but I am not delusional and have no real expectoration they will help. I am however going to do my best to get them to slip something that may help a dev find a solution. If I can get at least a small puzzle piece out of Level III it might be the crack in the dam we need to blow open the floodgates.
07/11/12 Samsung Level III blew me off yesterday as well saying they were still looking into the matter. I called again today and finally received an official reply. Samsung says they have no information exactly what Verizon has done to the phone, they do not know exactly what is and is not signed/encrypted, and they have no further information. I have submitted a complaint to the president of Samsung USA but thats as far as I could go with Samsung. They have closed my case and can not provide further information. I asked if they had an original system image before Verizon gimped the phone and they said "yes but we can not provide that to our customers per carrier agreement."
Lastly I was told that there is going to be a Verizon "Developer Edition" that you can buy directly from Samsung in the coming weeks. This is in "direct response to complaints filed by customers" according to Samsung and will be distributed and supported by Samsung directly. It will cost $600+ and basically be the same phone but w/o an signed/encrypted bootloader.
Off the record information from an unnamed outside source: Verizon is releasing a OTA update to patch the root exploit in the coming days. This OTA will break and prevent re-root as well as try and stop people from using the image off of the "Developer Edition" to mess with the "normal" Verizon Galaxy S3. I don't have specific details; sorry. Do not OTA unless you want to loose root and probably not get it back. Verizon is fk'ing pissed; I mean really pissed that we have root.
From what I am hearing, Verizon's "top %5 data abusers" are all typically rooted/romed. The whole point of locking this phone down was to mess with these unlimited data customers. Verizon started this war; let us end it and make them loath the day they decided to fk with the dev community.
Again, my case Support case has been closed with Samsung. We will get nothing further from them nor any direct help. My case with Verizon corporate is also closed; they said Samsung will offer a Developer model directly and if I wanted that kind of access I needed to talk to them not Verizon.
The lawyers still have not called me back. No shock.
Up until this point I have been angry; now I am pissed. This isn't over; not by a long shot.
Will update when I have more information.
07/17/12
Samsung "Office of the President" -
Phone 877-268-2121
eMail [email protected]
FYI Samsung records phone conversations between the 4th minute and the 18th minute. Anything you say after minute 4 and before minute 18 "MAY" be recorded. I know that sounds like a strange window of recording, but its straight out of the mouth of a sympathetic to the cause tech support rep. Just had a great conversation with a guy, nothing is fixed of course but needless to say, there are people in Samsung that have been hearing rumors that the company is tired of carrier's crap and with in the next few years will be offering all Samsung headsets for a subsidized price, directly through Samsung. There will probably be trade-in specials, loyalty discounts, etc. I can't wait not to buy my devices directly through Verizon! Secondly, as of now (Verizon lies again) anything software related with this phone is coming from, programmed by, and completely influenced by Verizon. Samsung manufacturing does not touch the device or support updates after its in the hands of Verizon. The developer model is not Verizon approved, nor is Verizon happy its going to be sold [from what I am told] however per FCC open network regulations Verizon has to allow the device on the network. Updates for the developer model will be directly from Samsung.
I was able to get the Samsung Apps (store) sideloaded on my device BTW. Verizon requested it be removed which is why its not on the device pre-installed. S-Suggest is NOT the same thing as Samsung Apps. Will Write something up here on XDA later when I get a chance.
07/24/12
The Electronic Frontier Foundation called me back and said they need more info on Block C. I am out of town until next Monday and let them know I would get back to them in a few days. They also are finding a lawyer who will do it pro bono. Looks like this may actually make it to court.
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Please call them and let them know on the main VM that you too have been effected by this lockdown, or any lockdown in the US on any carrier. The more people who call the more likely they will take the case. Lots of people calling is how the guys over at Howard Forums were able to get the ball rolling on the v710, so let history repeat itself for the sake of every dev, phone enthusiast, and civil rights advocate.
ROM developers usually work off of donations and by encrypting this and other devices Verizon is stealing from these developers who's livelihood is phone software development. Software developers who want an open platform also have to deal with the hassle that Verizon and other carriers have put them through by locking down devices. If the personal computer was locked down like this when it was first created and sold to people we would never be where we were today technology wise. The crippling of our mobile devices needs to stop, and it needs to stop now.
Its time to take the fight to Verizon and hopefully end the lockdowns once and for all. If the lawfirm takes the case this is going to be winner takes all. This may be our best shot to end device lockdowns in the US once and for all.
I think the push we will make is going to be Block C. Normally Verizon could argue that they locked the device [against the FCC Block C mandate] because of network security. This is going to be hard for them to argue though when every other carrier in the US and internationally has not encrypted the device. It's a long shot, and its going to be up hill, but as far as I see it this is our best chance and the time to strike on this issue is now.
Samsung Level III opens in 30 min. Will update again soon.
Level III is not in on the weekends, so I was just told by the automated message I got when the guy transferred me to that department. ok... Not what they told me yesterday but ok.
So Monday at 8am PST it is, and that's also when Verizon corporate will be calling me back too as the past two calls they have made to me have been the ass crack of dawn. If I time it right I can conference the two in and let them try and point the finger at the other one, to each others faces. No more "That's what the manufacture wanted, go talk to them" vs "That's what the carrier wanted, talk to them" runaround bull****.
Anyway, no updates till Monday then. That gives me time to root.
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
chill145 said:
i'll be the first to say it but thank you
going above and beyond especially considering nobody asked you to do this. great work and i hope it leads to some results
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes thank you 100%, we are all in this together.
Also please file FCC Consumer Complaints against Verizon for potentially violating the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement.
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000F
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/it-is-illegal-for-verizon-to-lock-some-bootloaders/
It's a long shot, but maybe worth it.
Have filed complaint with FCC and BBB, posted poor review on both Blue and White versons on VZW website, wall post ripping them apart on VZW facebook, poor reviews on every device site that will let me do so that I know of, personal contact with VZW reps filing complaints.
Any other avenues we can take?
Here's what I wrote in my FCC complaint:
The new Samsung Galaxy SIII on Verizon Wireless has a locked and encrypted bootloader, which appears to violate the openness requirements that Verizon agreed to when it purchased Block C, pursuant to § 27.16 (b) of 47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–10 Edition) available here-- http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title47-vol2-sec27-16.pdf
§ 27.16 (e) clearly states "Handset locking prohibited" except under certain circumstances previously delineated. The anti-consumer actions taken by Verizon impinge upon the free of use of devices by consumers, and potentially harms the livelihoods of developers, who may not be able to do their work on the device of their choice.
I would appreciate the FCC investigating and clarifying this situation.
Thank you,
Thinking further about it, with how prominent devices are in today's world, would various news providers not want to run this story as well?
I recommend tipping off any local newspaper and news station you have access to. Lets get this story out there~!
Thalinor said:
So we have root but we are still locked down unlike all other carriers. Basically this is going to turn into a Droid X situation and for those who know what I am talking about you know how bad this still sucks.
I am tired of this crap guys, and think with the amount of SG3 phones sold in the US and specifically Verizon, this is the time to strike back against all encrypted devices not just the GS3. We have dealt with this garbage long enough and now its time to end nonsense.
Kirtland and Packard, (310) 536-1000, 2361 Rosecrans Ave Ste 450, El Segundo, CA 90245
That's the law firm that won the huge case against Verizon over the Motorola v710 BT lockdown. I have left them a message asking if they will take this case too. In reality this one is going to vastly larger then the Moto case because of the number of users that have this device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
I agree that this maybe turning into the Droid X. As a droid x owner, waiting and watching for 18 months to see VZW and Motorola dump on us, I don't think we'll get anywhere with them. There was a huge effort on the DX with petitions, phone calls, emails, twitter, and FB posts.
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
I just filled out a complaint with the FCC basically asking them to enforce the Block C agreement from Verizon.
I'll phone the lawyers posted on the first page when I get a chance at work tomorrow.
amt897 said:
File with the FCC:
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints/
Talk about the Block C complaints. Don't attack them.
Post on VZW's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/verizon
Talk about how dissatisfied you are and how you're looking to switch. Don't attack them.
Post on Samsung Mobile's Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/SamsungMobile
Don't attack them. Talk about how you will reconsider purchasing their devices in the future. They don't want to have to lock bootloaders, Verizon is almost certainly making them do it.
File with the BBB:
http://www.bbb.org/us/verizon-wireless/
Talk about how anti-competitive their practices are and how dissatisfied you are as a customer. Require an answer.
Complain to Verizon Wireless' Site:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/contact/email.jsp
Don't attack them. Keep in mind you're talking to an employee, they didn't choose to lock down the bootloader. Be respectful but make your concern noted.
The problem lies with Verizon Wireless. They believe that there are not enough people concerned about this to affect their profit margin. You need to show that you will vote with your dollar and move somewhere else if this complaint is not answered. Also, bring up the Block C agreement. There are potential legal repercussions-- meaning that the FCC may be the best place to direct your complaints. Be respectful, I know we're upset, but being pissed off won't get you anywhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even own an S3, nor am I on Verizon, but damn't...I'm doing every one of things and calling just out of principle. I'm glad I left Verizon a long time ago, but they still tried to get more for money for almost 2 years. Damn near ruined my credit...assholes are going down.
Sent from my SGH-I727 using xda premium
I'd love to see this in major media:
"The Samsung S3 is a excellent smartphone, but Verizon's software modifications have made it unlikely to be upgraded and supported long term. If that's important to you, we recommend you consider another carrier."
My girlfriend used to work for the local news, I'll talk to her about contacting her friends at the station and see if I can get a face to face, or at least an email contact. I'll have to dig up all the info I can on the block C stuff and locked/encrypted bootloaders to take to them first.
Sent from my Droid X until I get my SGS3
block c
The Block C issue relates more toward unlocked devices like the nexus on the play store than unlocked bootloaders. You may be able to press the unlocked bootloader issue under the 'open applications' provision, but obviously that did a ton of good for Google Wallet. Of course, I can't find a single device you can use on Verizon's network that isn't held in verizon's death grip, so even the open device provision seems to be being ignored. The worst part is that verizon filed suits against these provisions and LOST. But true to form, if you have enough money and pull, and are willing to screw your customers as every turn (share everything plans are such a great deal right?) you can break the law over and over in broad daylight, and no one with power will bat an eye. Also, I'm not sure why the 'open application' provision was never really used as a battering ram when in came to things like tethering applications.
I think this type of work is very important. Thanks so much. Very much looking forward to hearing more from the companies themselves about why they make these types of decisions. Can't wait for an update here.
Sent from my Incredible 2 using xda app-developers app
Complained with the FCC, here is my complaint for anyone looking for somewhat of a template.
Recently, after preordering a Samsung Galaxy s3 handset from Verizon, I learned that they have violated the openness requirements of the Block C spectrum purchasing agreement by encrypting my device. This directly impacts my ability to enjoy my phone, and take advantage of the spectrum which Verizon owns. While I understand that the purchasing agreement gives Verizon leeway in regards to "reasonable" protection of the network, no other carrier in the United States (or the world), has done this, leading me to believe that this action is indeed unreasonable. It is unfair and anti-competitive for a company to misuse frequencies they own in this way.
I appreciate your time, and would appreciate a response in this matter.
Thank you,
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
skennelly said:
I know that the dev's are working there rear ends off, and I appreciate all their efforts. I am truly pulling for them and hope that they can get the bootloader figured out. I'm not an expert, but in my opinion the ROMs on the DX didn't compare to a fully unlocked device and I'd prefer not to have to suffer through 2+ years of touchwiz.
Thalinor,
Just a thought, but what about petitioning the law firm to take up this case. We are not going to get anywhere from VZW's or Samsung's pity for us. If this bootloader is truly encrypted, and if it is anything like the DX, the only way we will get this device completely unlocked is through a legal obligation on VZW's part. I think our energy would be better spent with the Attorneys who stand to profit from this case rather than burning our energy on VZW and Samsung who probably don't give a crap. I would think that the law-firm would have some interest in this (maybe?):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the whole point! I certainly don't have the money to go up against Verizon and do not want to make a dime out of this; that's not the point at all. I want Verizon to once and for all agree to stop ****ing with our phones. Phones should be sold locked not signed/encrypted.
Locked protects Verizon or the manufacture from having to eat the costs of a new phone when an end user breaks their device doing something irresponsible. I don't want Verizon paying for people's screwed up devices because eventually it will lead to MY bill going up. Its not my fault if someone screw's up their device. On the other hand by encrypting the bootloader Verizon is forcing people to do things that may lead to breaking your phone. If the manufacture offered a phone number for unlocking, where you would agree that unless it was something hardware defective, if you unlock and your device breaks, its not under warranty. Problem solved for everyone; no encrypted bootloader needed.
I am going after Verizon but this is really about every carrier who gimps cell phones. Smartphones have become pocket computers. They are no longer PDA's, or "like" pocket computers, they ARE pocket computers. Hell, my SG3 is got better hardware specs than the **** netbooks people waited in line for last black Friday at Walmart. If we consider netbooks in that they come giving the buyer full administrative access over the device and yet still give the end user the option to hook it up to Wi-Fi. One way or another my devices are hooking up to a company who I pay for data and/or voice service. My rights should be universal and now that the device in my pocket has evolved into a full blown computer, my access rights should evolve as well. Whether its a computer in your pocket or a computer on your desk, it can be used in accordance with your providers service agreement, or it can be abused.
Prejudging your entire customer base to abuse your network and handing down sentence as judge, jury, and executioner like Verizon has done, before people have even had the chance to make the decision to do right or wrong; to me that just violates every ideal set forth in this countries constitution. I am ****ing sick of corporate america ****ting on this countries citizens, and the whole god damn world for that matter. It needs to stop. While I despise lawyers to the core, I sincerely hope they take on this case and prove there are still people in the field who remember why their profession exists (Hint: Its NOT to make money) and that there is some justice left in this country.
/end rant
Update: Talked to Verizon Exec, they have passed info on to the lawyers to look over and may or may not get back to me; at this point its out of her hands.
Update: I have not heard back from the lawyers above, but another user here on XDA PM'd me and said they were able to talk to someone today who told them that the legal team was looking into the case and make a decision after getting more information. They have my number, if they want to call me they can; if not I could care less who spear heads this as long as the battle is fought and won.
Update: I called Samsung, talked to Level I, they tried to transfer me to level III, I was put on told and Level I came back and said they would call me back later. The call never came. I will try them again more vigorously tomorrow.
MichaelVash7886 said:
With Verizon Twitter claiming it was Samsung, I'm curious what both companies said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMFAO @ Verizon's blatant bull**** lies. Why would Samsung decide, at their own free will and expense, to sign-encrypt ONLY Verizon's Galaxy S3, and not one other carrier in the world? Verizon is full of **** and the fact they think the line "Its the other guys fault" is actually going to work, is flat out ****ing insulting.
Screenshot that and post it here please. I do not use social networking; if they really need to spy on me they have my smartphone information, and know where to find me.
Hi guys,
I've been a member of XDA for a while now. I'm not as active as I hoped to be when I joined but I live such a busy life it's impossible to stay on and continuously remain active.
Anyway, to my point and reason for starting this thread. There are certain individuals with the knowledge on this site (and others) whom are fully capable of flashing LTE capable devices. The ones that can be flashed anyway. I'm not talking about illegal flashing, donor phones or anything like that. I'm talking about simple, legal flashing to another wireless carrier such as taking a VZW Galaxy S3 and flashing it to Page+.
I've offered to pay one individual to show/teach me how it's done. I can flash 3G devices without issue. But asking someone to teach you, show you or otherwise provide you with tips on how to flash LTE phones is a lost cause. They use this ability to make money charging $35 a pop to flash phones. And that's fair I guess. If you can do something others cannot then you charge for it right?
But what gets me is that we are Android enthusiast's. An open-source mobile development project that went beyond the expectations of it's original dev's at Google I would imagine. Now, it's arguably the most popular mobile OS in the world. To me it's the most popular anyway, to h3ll with iOS.
Anyway, for us to be all about the open source scene and what not but to refuse to share knowledge about flashing LTE devices because of pure greed is beyond me. We live out lives based on free, open source software but when it comes to something such as flashing LTE devices there is no way anyone will help you learn how to do it or especially show you how to do it.
That's why I'm starting this thread. I want/need to learn how to flash LTE phones to Page Plus. That's it... I run a smartphone shop and often have client's come in wanting options or directly asking me if I can flash a phone to Page+ for them. Well sure! But only if it's a 3G device. :-/
The only other way is for me to use a certain individual who charges $35 to flash the phones remotely. If I try to double it up to $70 then my client's are turned off as there is a shop further away from mine who has a T-Mobile employee there who flashes phones for $35. So I want to be able to offer this service to my clients for the same. I cannot charge them $35, jump online and wait on the person who's name I will not mention to get to me when they can. I make no money, in fact, the time I would have to spend doing this would cost me money because in my field time truly is money.
I need an open source enthusiast whom isn't p0ser. One whom is willing to teach me how to flash LTE phones so that I can offer this service to my customer's. I do not care about the money, I simply want people to know that I can do anything for them at my shop. Telling them I cannot flash LTE phones is just bad for my business in general.
So, with all of that said I would really be impressed if a true enthusiast came out of the wood work to help me with this little problem. Me and the thousands of other individuals who need to know how to flash LTE devices. I mean wow, the things we use this site for... Yet no one will reveal the secrets of LTE flashing. It boggles my mind.
And yes, I've read thread after thread on forum after forum trying to decipher the methods used to flash these phones. I know it's simple, it's as simple as flashing a 3G device to Page+. That's what makes me even more discouraged about it all. It's so easy to do. That means it's easy to teach. I have all of the necessary software do flash nearly any device. But the exact steps to follow are what I am missing.
So, someone, anyone who cares about the open source movement and the ability we have to share knowledge please step forward and show not only me, but everyone here that open source development is not used for profit but for expanding our knowledge. It seems that some of us of gotten off of track over the years. Greed is one of the things that makes Apple a horrible company, it's also what makes people turn into individuals they never meant/hoped to be.
So c'mon guys, let's forget all of the bs and let's get back to our roots here. Who's willing to help me learn how to flash LTE devices? I can offer compensation if I must but again, that would go against the idea behind open source. I simply need to learn how to do this, period. And I'll do whatever I need to do in order to learn.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this and hopefully it will do some good.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
PAinguIN
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
Planterz said:
The info I found here is completely baffling to me. Half the phones listed say they're a 4G device and will work with voice/text/data/ The other half say they won't work because they're 4G phones. So as for the "why" you might be able to flash a particular phone, I don't know. Seems dependent on a phone-by-phone basis.
Does Page Plus even offer LTE service? Does it even offer 4G of any sort (like HSPA+)? The coverage map on their website only lists EV-DO for data. Plans list amounts of data, but make no mention of 4G or LTE.
Or are you merely trying to get LTE capable Verizon phones to work with Page Plus service, regardless of what actual speed of data they can get?
There's many aspects of this that I don't understand. Are you the operator of a corporate-owned store? Are you a franchise? Do you operate as an authorized representative of Page Plus, as well as other MVNOs? I really don't know how these type of shops work, although I see them everywhere.
Offering to flash for free might be breaking some sort of contract or something. I agree that it's greedy to charge so much for so quick/simple a task, but I'm not surprised they charge so much either, since bringing a phone and paying the money to flash it is way cheaper than buying a new phone (and the phone selection on their website is craptacular - just plain awful), so they get the money where they can.
The software to flash phones in this way, I'm betting, took a lot of development, time, and money. The fact that this service isn't available to you, and must be done through a separate, paid service, means to me that they're keeping this to themselves for reasons that should be obvious.
XDA is a community devoted to developing and "hacking" (primarily) the Android system. What you're looking for has far less to do with Android. and more to do with the carriers themselves. Some phones can be flashed, some can't. Or rather, ones that "can't" perhaps can, but would require a bunch of R&D to get done, and isn't worth it to find out. What I mean to say is that what you're asking for probably won't be done. Not without forking over a ton of money, because what you'd expect/hope to do is impossible, and the people who could do it have already done so, and they are the very people who offer this service at $55 a pop because it took a lot of time and money to figure out how to do it.
And no personal offense intended, but Page Plus looks like a horrible choice to go with for anyone who expects to use a smartphone. The phone selection sucks beyond comprehension. Seriously, the only thing it has going for it besides its cheap rates is that it has Verizon's coverage. But who needs that kind of coverage? Probably people that can afford Verizon's actual plans and can enjoy its LTE network and/or travel across the country a lot, and wouldn't bother with this joke of a company in the first place. Bring your own 4G phone? Why? Go with a Verzion pre-paid plan. Or tell Big Red to stick it and go with a company that doesn't anally rape their customers, like T-Mobile. It just seems to me that there's better options, including Verizon-powered MVNOs than Page Plus. When it comes to smartphones, anyway. Basic voice/text plans are probably OK.
Whatever. I don't know why I spent so much time responding to your post. I sincerely wish you success in your business. The world certainly needs people like you that want to give their customers what they need for as little money as possible, and with as little nickel-and-diming (ass-raping) as necessary. But the software/hardware/firmware limitations on so many phones made for the US market make what you're hoping for a physical and/or logistical/financial impossibility (or, simply, more than it's worth) to realize.
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Planterz,
Yes, I'm just trying to get LTE capable VZW (and certain Sprint phones as rare as they are) to work on P+. I know 3G speeds are possible but as you pointed out 4G LTE is not. That's not really important. As long as SMS, MMS, and mobile web is there then my client's will be happy.
And no, I'm not an authorized Page+ provider. The shop I own started from something I did on the side for extra money. I'm an IT guy by trade but about 3 months ago I decided to resign from my day job, focus on phones and now I'm opening my own shop! It has really been amazing!
But anyway, I plan on becoming an authorized P+ provider because from what I read it's very easy to do so. From what i understand it is perfectly legal to flash devices that Page Plus supports (and some that they do not) to their network. It will, however, automatically cancel any contract that was previously associated with the phone. This will result in early termination fees and all of that jazz. Oh, and this is only if you flash it while it's active on an account. If it is not attached to a wireless carrier then there's nothing to worry about.
And, you are right, XDA is primarily devoted to the development of 3rd party, open source Android OS's. The hacking, well, the hacking comes in place when devices will not let you unlock their boot loader. Such as Samsung. You cannot unlock the bootloader on an S4 (not sure about the S5) yet... And Samsung does not help you with this. They do not encourage unlocking the boot loader.. HTC, however, encourages you to and provides you with the means to unlock your boot loader free of charge. This is one of the main reasons's I have used HTC phones for the last 4-5 years. Since the EVO was released and then the HTC One M7.
But still, what is done here on XDA is much more than simply hacking phones and development. There are lots of threads associated with flashing and some of them have very useful info if you're wanting to flash a 3G device. (Which is easy by the way). But, LTE devices... Unfortunately the story is not the same.
I was just hoping someone could point me in the right direction or be so kind as to show me how it's down or send me the process for flashing, say, a Galaxy S3 on VZW (which is an LTE device). It only takes about 5-10 minutes...
And, lol!!! You have the wrong idea about my shop. I started buying and selling smartphones a couple of years ago. I've worked in the IT field for over a decade and have many loyal clients on the side. Slowly, I began to learn how to repair iPhone's and Android devices. I found a guy who did repairs, a local university student, he and I partnered up. We split everythihng 50/50. Things went surprisingly well! He graduated in May and moved back home, reluctantly...
I continued to carry the torch... My shop is not going to be a Page Plus shop. We have places named "Talk Unlimited" around here that serve that purpose. But as I said, I just hate having to tell people it's going to cost them $75 for a $35 job or even have to send them to Talk Unlimited whom charges $75 as well.
So no, we offer a wide array of services for smartphones including buying/selling. In addition, we offer services in the IT field which cover the entire spectrum. From computer repair and virus removal to enterprise level networking and defense contracting.
I gave up a darn good job and have staked everything I have in this business. So it has to be the BEST! It must offer what other's are incapable of offering and do so much cheaper. Which we do... And in the grand scheme of things being able to flash LTE phones really doesn't matter. But it's only good business to be able to provide the service if needed by a client.
I should have been more clear on that when I started the thread. So once again, no, I am not opening up a shop providing only flashing services to Page Plus and their crappie phones. And they are crappy, just as you pointed out. LOL!
With all of that said, do you know anyone I can speak to or any thread I can check out? Vip3r is the one whom I've used in the past. He knows his stuff, but he will not teach me how to do it. Not even if I pay him. And I understand, he has his reasons. I do not hold it against him. But i need to be able to offer this service if the time comes to where another client needs a solution and flashing to P+ is the only one you know?
Thank you for posting. Perhaps your post will help get a conversation started or something with some answers. Lol!
Thanks again Planterz!
PAinguIN
It's only a matter of time...
As my title states, "It's only a matter of time.". Once I discover how to flash LTE devices I will post my findings here. For everyone to see, read and use. To me, this is the only fair way to do things. Keeping open knowledge from others and forcing them to spend hours and hours online (which I don't have) to find all of the little answers needed is simply not an option for me nor is it for most others.
It appears that I'm missing out on only one or two steps in the process. I guess I'm going to have to ruin a few of my LTE devices as I try to learn this on my own. The process is (I would say) 90% similar to flashing a VZW iPhone 4 to Page Plus. But with a couple of missing steps. I need these steps.
If/when I discover how to do this on my own I will post it in this thread for EVERYONE to see. No longer will people have to ask questions about LTE flashing. Because it will ALL be RIGHT HERE! Mark my word, as soon as I discover what I'm doing wrong and perfect the process then it will be posted here in absolute detail.
If anyone has any information to contribute to this thread I, personally, and many, many others would be more grateful than you could possibly imagine.
Thanks,
PAinguIN
I am now an authorized P+ dealer...
And as time goes by I will piece together the puzzle of flashing non-VZW phones to P+ with MMS/SMS and at least 3G.
If anyone has any insight or tips into this please share.
Thanks!