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Exciting News for everyone!!!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/what.s-w...ow-wm7-and-wm8-are-going-to-fix-it-333536.php
Very interesting article

Wow, that was a great article! The author hit his points right on the head. Sounds like WM8 will be the one to go for, however who knows how long that will take to come out.
Also, in the meantime HTC has to get their heads out of their asses and release some quality and speedy hardware! What the hell happened to the OMNi, the Universal successor?! There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old! On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise) but its ugly as sin and the build quality will most likely be lower than HTC...I also hear that i-Mate is in financial trouble now too...
Oh well, I have finally completed the process of flashing a new WM5 ROM that I'm happy with, and my Uni is working great for now. I just hope that the future looks good for WM8 and HTC...I'll be sitting in my waiting chair for now, to see how this all develops over time.

well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile#Photon_.282009.29
wm7 will be out next year so it could take awhile before wm8 come around

The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.

Thats how I feel too. I have very little problems but a new OS is always exciting. I know I was losing my mind the first time I found Faria's Crossbow for the wizard. That was my first taste of windows mobile 6 and it was great.

I almost wanna check out the ETEN x800. I havent seen any in the states. But im gonna keep my eye out. I love my Herm200 but hey thats got the memory of a 8925 and I think its like 500.

scar45 said:
There's still not a decent phone that can replace it yet, and the Uni is over 2 years old!
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I think I'll go back to the separated-device route. The iPAQ 214 for the workhorse, quality PDA and the Nokia N95 for the phone + GPS + camera + 3D hardware-accelerated gaming machine + HSDPA modem + push mail client.
scar45 said:
On the other hand, the i-Mate Ultimate 9502 looks like a decent piece of hardware (spec-wise)
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Too bad it's only PXA270-based... already outdated. A no-go for me. Why would I buy a non-PXA310-based device in 2008, when the iPAQ 214 already has the new CPU?

@Menneisyys
I think you may have made a tiny error, the iMate 9502 is the ugly one with a Qualcomm MSM7200 processor.

njakobs said:
The article is so sad. I have been using WM for years and it does everything I want and more. Every point the guy makes is easily fixable with any task manager, there are heaps or free ones.
A non power user dosen't care if the apps close or not.
Iphone is all about the hype, anything that it does WM has been doing for 10 years.
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Click to collapse
Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.

2manyphones said:
Not to get into a WM vs iPhone debate, but I disagree. I have about every iteration of WM device and still choose the iPhone on a daily basis. I am not really a mac user or care about any of the hype, for me it is simply a great device and os. Yes, WM can do most of the things the iPhone can, but not with anywhere near the same ease of use (i.e. can anyone figure it out), speed (no task manager needed with a 600+Mhz processor) screen clarity (see it in sunlight!), touch screen responsiveness (capacitance vs resistance) accelerometer for auto landscape of the browser, pictures and iPod, and the amazing build quality. I won't even go into the applications and how amazingly intuative they are. To make my Touch XL or Tinity work even close to my iPhone it takes over ten added applications that don't always work together. If you think the iPhone is only hype, you likely have not spent any time with one - it's addicting. My point is simply to state that, as a WM user the iPhone has raised the bar both on the hardware and software side and I hope it is not years before Microsoft and the manufacturers catch up.
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I guess you are right in a lot of aspects. However, Apple's flaw (and quite possibly the iPhone's downfall) is the lack of capability for the power users. Both my mom and my brother have iPhones so I have had plenty of chances to mess around with them. Not only did I not find it addictive, but after using it for 10 minutes, I just put it down and started messing around with my Blue Angel (now 3 years old and running WM6). I personally consider myself a medium (on the salsa scale ) power user of WM, but after watching a couple of YouTube videos and scrolling through album covers with my fingers while tilting the device back and forward, I started thinking: "well, now what?"
There are numerous advantages of iPhones over WM devices and vice-versa, but the article is mainly comparing the WM interface with the iphone's interface, and that is what this is all about. M$ interfaces have been progressively getting worse over the years (or at least not getting any better), while Apple completely hit a homerun with their interface. This sole fact gave birth to the future of WM. If you do not believe me, check out the "development and hacking" section of this forum and tell me how many new UIs you can see floating around. I personally have 4 in my device (FreeStyle, PointUI, iTask (came out yesterday), and Slither's Cube.
Hopefully, they will be able to do something based on what is out there (i.e. HTC X-Button (true closing any app), PointUI, PocketCM, TCPMP, etc, etc...). But make no mistake, there is a lot to be done to our devices, and hopefully M$ truly knows about it and are planning to do something about it...
Long Live XDA-Devs!!!!

another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec
heck here kids write sms's on their phones even in school under the table so the teacher dont take their phones even if the iphone keyboard is easier to use the defualt ms tiny keyboard phone pad and normal phones got a better chance of being used "blindfolded"

I do agree, the WM UI sucks by default and the usability leaves a lot to be desired. The good thing is that almost anything is possible. Luckily HTC and the devs of this site have fixed a huge number of WM flaws. My Touch was pretty usable out of the box. The devs here improved it even more by adding PocketCM for example. I just flashed the Shadow Wm 6.1 rom yesterday and it's damn fast, like having a new phone.
I would like a better browser and a more finger friendly UI. PointUI looks very promising but still has some issues. We'll get there, it just takes a while.
I do think WM has made big improvements over the years though. I remember my first WM phone (Orange SPV, Smartphone 2002), it was the worst phone I ever had although it did have some nice things at the time. I swore I would never ever buy a WM phone again. This summer I fell in love with the Touch and keep tinkering with it.

Rudegar said:
another thing with iphone which may work agenst it in eu and asia is lack of t9 not very fast to write sms's in 10sec.....
"
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Very good point Rudegar, another reason the iPhone will never fly in Asia is the lack of stylus for writing Chinese characters. MANY people who buy a touchscreen devicedo so exclusively so they can handwrite characters. The iPhone is going to have to change a lot for that to happen. Really, people shouldn;t think about the iPhone so much. It's going to probably never even make it to the asian market, which frankly is such a large market that US iPhone sales don't even make a difference. The real powerhouses are going to continue to be the people who dominate the asian handset markets.

Why the Lag !

I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.

I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...

Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.

On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).

Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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Click to collapse
If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.

i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t

i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd

There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.

Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)

I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.

i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi

I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.

I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.

I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.

PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?

I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.

Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH

thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.

Best WM device for its money?!

Hey there guys,
New to this great Comunity, still new to Windows Mobile.
I'm a tech geek alright, and I love having all the newest tech gadgets around. I've wanted to get a WM phone so many times throughout the last few years but they were always behind in lots of aspects compared to the Symbian ones. Then HTC released its TyTNII with its holy specs, great design and somewhat compact size. This was my phone! Yeah, right! Then I found out about this huge issue with the video performance and followed it for about three monts waiting for a solution either from HTC or XDA. And OK - HTC had some problems with Qualcomm support for its stolen from Broadcomm chipsets whatever. So they released Diamond (and announced Raphael) with a new chipset and "3D GPU" which "processor enhances the user interface". And then again it needs tweaks to make it - not better, but just usable. Then all the other bugs and flaws users say about in this forum.
Can't HTC build a quality device that just works out of the box?! Then leave it to us mostly to customize it and somehow improve its usability!? Man, everyday I read about newer and bigger bugs and flaws. May be most of them will be overcomed thanks to this comunity, but were is HTC with its support for its high-priced devices!?
And again I'm about to leave the idea of having WM phone.
I've looked around for any other brands and models but found none more appealing. What do you think? What's the best WM device I can get in the next few months?
Any opinions are much appreciated.

To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give blackberry a chance They've never failed me. Infact, I had my HTC Touch Dual for about a month before switching back. lol.

calling someone is too complicated?
1.) hit the green button
2.) start tapping away or choose speed dial
3.) hit the green button
its similar to what other phones want from you in order to know who you want to call. If thats too complicated, you may also try voice commander?
that beeing said, I am very happy with my new i-mate 9502, but I also considered the samsung i780 and it looks like people who bought it are very happy with it, especially with the form factor and performance.
edit: key for me with winMo devices are things like hardware keys, to reach functions quickly, using a good launcher/today setup like pocketplus +
phoneweaver + todayagenda, etc. and a nice hardware keyboard.

partyhardy said:
simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
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Calling is simple, one button... de ding "call simon mobile" etc.
The no error message and not getting calls though is an issue i dislike.
I want a "nippy" device we need better hardware to run the software and better software optimisation for the hardware.

i just bought htc touch enhanced couple of days ago, and for the price it's great. Now with the Diamond coming out, htc touch is getting cheaper, but it's great to use nontheless.
Installed some stuff on it, not enough to make it sluggish but enough to make it a pure pleasure to use and i would definitely recommend it.
Prekrasen telefon za tzenata si.

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.

demonizator said:
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
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Click to collapse
Note that the people that use this site are not those that are going to say "my device is great" and then go away... The kind of people here are either those not satisfied, or those that want a little bit more from the hard ware and are not representative of all the device users.
The Diamond is an immensely powerfully device, and even with the UI stacked on top, it ticks away far more reliably than the iPhone (which for me just locked up a lot). If you don't like the UI, disable it and you'll have one of the most powerful WM devices there is...
WM devices don't need tweaking, but this site is devoted to tweaking them. I ran my Prophet perfectly happily on the stock WM5 ROM for over a year, before discovering this site to get it unlocked when the contract ended. I didn't need to tweak it or flash countless ROMs, but I wanted to...

I really hope you're right. I'm gonna wait a little bit more and get the Touch Pro version. It's just all these flaws I read about that stopped me from buying WM the past few years. But I guess I have to give up something to gain something more.

Maybe you want to take a look to the new Samsung. It seems as it's going to be a good device.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1039

WM6 for the money?
I bought a Dash on ebay and upgraded it to WM6 for $150.00.
I have a Mogul now, but the Dash was way easier to use.

In terms of bang-for-the-buck I think the Samsung i780 takes the cake. It is the most specced out phone in that price category. And if you buy one today it will have the newer firmware so it shouldn't have any real issues.
Oh and calling people on a WiMo phone is far easier than any other phone. Voice Command baby. It's the reason I can't leave the WiMo platform even if there are other great choices like the iPhone, Blackberry or even the all-but-dead Palm Treos. And if you DON'T like using Voice Command come on it's very easy to call someone as mentioned. In fact, back when Nokia had crap for menus and directional pads to get to your contacts WiMo phones had touchscreens that made it really easy in comparison. Today the touchscreen is still easier to use than the various jog dials, joysticks or what not that conventional phones have.

+1 for the i780. It is by far the quickest and most responsive PPC I have ever used, and the form factor is perfect. No rotating screens to wait for, all the keyboard shortcuts you could want, terrific build quality, good battery life, bargain price, and none of the HTC Flo-bloat that turns their machines from reasonable PPCs into lagging, crash-happy iPhone wannabes.

I gotta add a +2 for the I780 as well.
I was holding out for a touch pro myself, in fact i cut out a picture of it and put it on my wall at the office. Iv'e owned quite a few HTC models over the last while as well as a I600, and i gotta say the I600 altho it had less functionality far outshined all but my tytn 2, altho the tytn 2 could not match the I600 im picture quality with the camera.
Last week i was in vodacom shop and saw the I780 demo model, picked it up and played with it for a while and i must say it has been a long time since a phone made me go "wow" , i was totaly amazed at the speed of the thing, the look and feel of it is great, samsung put alot of work into making the menu's just right for any user from beginner to power user. I made up my mind right there and then and bought one on my credit card, that was 7 days ago.
my experience so far :
Proprioty connector sux since i have a bunch of standard usb cables lying around, but still its not a train smash since you get usb cable, car charger, spare battery as well as a seperate portable battery charger as well with the phone.
Speed is AWSOME, 624mhz of power you will definitely notice, i have not found a single movie clip that has once lagged or was out of sinc with video/audio. this phone is really FAST, even when multi tasking it doesnt slow down. i have 2 friends who own tytn 2 and both commented on the speed, they both think i tweaked it to make it faster, they refuse to believe its the stock speed. ofcourse i did not tweak it.
Plenty of memory, i have 152mb free memory space on the phone and i have around 20 apps installed. the phone can also technicaly take up to 32gb cards i have read, altho most users use 1gb-8gb.
GPS is great, i had a bit of problem setting it up as i didnt bother reading the manual etc, but once i figured it out it worked like a charm, it pin pointed me in seconds. google maps work great as well. Garmin XT which comes with the phone is in my opinion far better than tomtom could ever be so i am very happy with samsung's choice of gps software.
Touch pad mouse was what put me off buying the phone in the first place, but after 6 days i find myself using it more than anything else, it was weird to use the first few days but it is second nature now and the phone just wouldnt be the same without it.
the keypad looks really tiny and i have biggish fingers. I dont know why, maybe its because they are beveled quite a bit or something, but i find it very easy and comfortable to use, do yourself a favour and try it on a demo model, you will see what i mean. the phone has a bunch of shortcut keys that sit in all the right spots, thumbs up to samsung for doing a good job there. one thing i would have liked was a jog dial for easy up and down scrolling in opera, I downloaded a app that changes volume up/down to scroll up/down and my problem was solved.
Screen is nice and bright, even in sunlight i dont have a problem. 320x320 at 128dpi is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 95% of software out there works flawless at this resolution, since the release of the phone software developers have all been upgrading to support it. its mainly only HTC home that is a problem, but spb mobile which has more funtions works perfect so i am not bothered. I have installed all 20 of my favorite apps and all work nicely so im happy. there are some games that might be an issue tho, but its mostly old titles, every new game being released supports this resolution.
3G. Wireless, HSDPA etc : with my tytn 2 i had 1 bar to my router from the living room, with this phone i have almost full signal, i was really surprised with that. in the bathroom i used to get gprs only with the tytn 2, with this phone i get 3G+. anyway, that is how i have compared it to my old phone and found this one to have far better signal quality.
overall i love the phone, i am convinced i made the right choice. i would have loved a flash to be included with the phone, but other than that i just cant find any flaws.
I cant really comment on battery life as i am still playing with everything alot and using more battery life than i would on avarage, but currently battery lasts me almost 2 full days and trust me, i put it under alot of stress plus you get a second battery with the phone for free. but i estimate 3 to 4 days if you dont put to much strain on it.
O also forgot to mention, video calling worked out of the box much to my surprise. phone came with the E1 rom installed.
Software currently on phone and working perfectly :
Skype
SmS Chat ( threaded sms app )
google maps
Opera
core player
real player
Esmertec Jbed
Advabced config Tools
Adobe reader
Fun contact
Keyswop
Pocket IRC
Pocket Rar
PqzII
Safemode 2
Garmin XT
SPB Mobile shell
WKTaskL
Samsung today plugin
Astraware Casino
Tetris
Machines of war
Flash player
Total commander
Call firewall.
And no i did not install realvga, i am using the default 128dpi resolution i got the phone with.
Anyway, hope this helps with your descision. what you really need to do it test the phone yourself, i warn you tho, once you pick it up you wont want to put it down
In my country the HTC Tytn 2 is selling for R8900, and its already an dated model.
the I780 is selling for R5200 which is ALOT cheaper and this phone blows smoke in the tytn 2's face. so in my opinion this is by far the best bang for buck out there.
Its kinda like buying a 9600gt when everyone else is buying the 8600gts .... just love seeying their faces when they realise they just pissed away a chunk of cash on the wrong thing
If all else fails read this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411053

The best windows mobile device for it's money is undoubtely the HTC Shift, for a mere 1000 dollars you'll get a run-down WindowsMobile OS, but also Vista. So you'll have a hybrid for the price of just a good laptop.
Isn't is great ?

I think the HTC Touch PRO will blow the competition away, seriously!!!
I was a symbian freak for years untill I bought my current device, the HTC S710 "Vox". Before the Vox I went trough several Symbian S60 devices including Nokia 7610, 6630, N70 & N73.
At first I thougt wm was a complete mess... and the UI looked terrible imo... I was also a bit shocked that there was no copy/paste (at least in wm6 standard). In S60 there was a dedicated pencil key used for just copy/paste actions + other stuff..
Things have changed...
Now after using my Vox fox exactly one year there's no way I'd go back to only using symbian S60 again.
Even though I'm only using the non-touch version of wm I've noticed all the advantages of wm compared with symbian S60.
Let me list a few of them:
1. Messaging: Sending SMS & MMS with a S60 device is OK but nothing more, the whole messaging interface in a S60 3d edition device is inferior. It's hard to explain but it's just doesn't compare to what it feels like on a wm device. It's like using a 3310 with a color screen if you know what I mean. Oooold T9 (forget about xt9 with word prediction & etc), the whole interface looks like a joke, and the S60 MMS editor doesn't even have a 3'rd of every options you can find in a standard WM device these days.
2. Email: OMG, If you wanna check your mail on a S60 device you'll be seriously depressed. Reading emails on a S60 device is like reading a standard SMS. You can forget all about HTML email and everything looks incredibly boring. Yes there are some really good 3rd party apps like profimail but still they're no match for the built-in mobile outlook when it comes to displaying your emails.
3. Calendar: There's no comparision here, WM6 calendar thrumps the S60 one, nothing more to say!
4. Contacts: S60 is far far behind, there's so much easier and faster finding a contact in WM6, especially when you can search contacts quickly just by typing there first letters using xt9... And with Live messenger integrated (love it or hate it) with contacts it's a nice addition imo.
5. Office applications: OMG... This is overkill for S60!!! Even WM6 standard edition nowadays includes Office mobile which beatifully renders word, excell & powerpoint files. It's a shame it doesn't allow you to create new documents (on WM6 standard) but that can easily be fixed with a simple patch from modaco forums... S60 includes quickoffice, it's not a bad application at all but documents rendered in quickoffice doesn't even look nearly as good as they do in office mobile.
6. WIFI: No competition here at all... WM is superior in remembering hotspots and connectivity.
7. ActiveSync: Says it all doesn't it??? Nokia have PC Suite, it's a great app but it's no match if you're using outlook... It works ok but doesn't sync everything like activesync does so wm is the winner here as well....
8. Live Messenger: Probably not very important to a lot of people but for me it's very important. With WM6 I can use the native WM Live messenger client completely for free. There's no way to do that on Symbian because MS is charging for using it on other platforms
There's probably more I could add to the list but I must mention all my troubles with wm in the beginning have been solved, I'm using Vito Copy/Paste for the copy & paste issue & I've also added celetask to a hardware key so my phone actually works better in this apartment than I could ever wish four... Of course Symbian S60 also have advantages, like better cameras & video recording, more display colors & better gaming with the new N-gage platform etc... but in the end I think WM is a more advanced & better platform. I think WM is more appealing for geeks & techheads because you can tweak your device to infinity. And I'm still only talking about WM Standard, WM6 PRO is even more versatile.
S60 is fun for a while but in the end it gets boring as hell...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Performance issue of WM are device specific. After being a HTC hardcore for many years, and after quite a number of frustating moments I decided to switch.....almost bought myself the new Nokia E71 and abandon WM altotgether BUT - I decided to give it one more try with WM and now it's with a Samsung. And that's how I ended with the i780.
With the i780 (DXHE1 Rom), it's like a rediscovery for me. After getting used to HTC sluggishness and sporadic freeze-ups, I was genuinely astounded by how nimble and steadfast this i780 is. I can recall until now I have not encountered any freeze-ups no matter how I abuse the programs running back to back. Yes some buggy program may screw up but the nice thing is it won't freeze the whole phone unlike HTC devices where a single program fails it will bring down the whole phone.
And for the price, the i780 is a steal. It has all the arsenal one could expect from HTC flagship models yet it cost way cheaper - that is a real deal to me.
If you are done with HTC, don't blame it on WM. Try different make, like i-Mate Arima build or Samsung or even Asus.

HTC HD2 and iPhone

I am in confusion in buying mobile phone between HTC HD2 and iPhone.
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone. As users will be the best person to suggest which one will be better to use in performance, user-friendliness and configuration wise.

com'on dude this isn't an issue of device more an issue of what operating system com'on iphone os in my opinion is second best mobile operating system after android i think personnaly it goes for me anyway 1. android 2. iphone joint 3rd winmo and blackberry and i can say all this because i have owned a device that runs every one of these operating system, but thats just for me if you want really customisable android and winmo are good if you want amazing communication get a blackberry, and if you want stupid amounts of apps get android or iphone.

michealjohn said:
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On this site it's all praise for HTC, so I doubt this will help you much either.
My recommendation: people who are sure they want an HD2 should buy an HD2. People who are not sure which they want should get an iPhone.
Or alternatively, put it this way: if you simply want a phone that works, get an iPhone. If you're the sort of person who enjoys spending several weeks researching tweaks, fixes, enhancements and customisations, and you are willing to accept the fact that the phone won't work terribly well while you're doing that, get an HD2.

I second that emotion...

ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.

un1ucky said:
ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha
+1

HD2 clearly has the SIGNIFICANTLY better hardware.
Nonetheless, honestly, its either you settle for already out of date with any WM6.5 phone or play the waiting game... Windows Phone Series 7 was just announced, but its not going to be available until the holidays... that's 10 months from now. So if you get an HD2, unless there are WM7 ROM leaks (which are unlikely given the hush environment thus far and the fact that the ZuneHD can't be yet be cracked), your stuck with WM6.5. Otherwise, iPhone 3GS, Palm Pre, Nexus One, Xperia X10 are all good choices as of those will definitely get all OS updates likely for the next few years.

Gor for the HD2 and have the full suppopert of XDA!

You have just entered a Church and asked the people which religion is better: Christianity or Buddhism?

The hardware of the HD2 is better, hands down. However, the software is quite different. I think none of the operating systems, Windows Mobile or iPhone OS, is better or worse, but they are very different and have very different strenghts and weaknesses.
I can give you some thoughts that may help you decide:
The iPhone is very easy to use, fluid and most of the time, 'just works'. However, this comes at a price: It is also very limited, in order to achieve its ease of use.
As long as you don't reach the limits, you're fine.
But when you reach the limits (e.g. you want to have information on the home screen, you want to multitask, send something via Bluetooth, use it as USB storage, customise ringtones, create playlists without iTunes and so on...) then things get complicated on the iPhone. You either can't do something at all, or you need to hack/jailbreak it or find workarounds for the shortcomings.
With Windows Mobile, you get everything out of the box. It can do pretty much everything and has all the basic and advanced features that the iPhone lacks.
However, just like the iPhone's ease of use, Windows Mobile's feature-richness comes at a price as well: It definitely is more complicated and doesn't always work instantly, if you want to install/change something.
Sense tries to make the basic things as easy to use as on the iPhone, and I have to say it does that quite well. But it's still not THAT easy.
On the other hand, if you want to go beyond the limits that Apple set on the iPhone, things often get MUCH more complicated than they are on Windows Mobile.
Conclusion:
If you don't reach the limits of your iPhone, i.e. if you're not missing anything that the iPhone can't do, then it will probably the better device for you, because then it's more easy to use and 'just works' for you.
If, however, you miss a bunch of features and you try to work around them on the iPhone (e.g. by jailbreaking it), then a Windows Mobile device, particulary the HTC HD2, is probably the better choice, because though not everything is as easy, you get everything out of the box. And you also get the better hardware.
The HTC HD2 also has a special place among the Windows Phones. Sense/TouchFlo has evolved over time and now the basic things (i.e. everything that the iPhone can do) are almost as easy on the HD2.
There are still exceptions, like installing software, but it has come so close that I personally think that the HD2 is the better choice for almost everyone, except for those who really never reach the limits of the iPhone.
Because, for giving up a bit of ease of use, you get tons of additional features, as well as the better hardware:
- 4.3" screen, much better camera, faster processor, more RAM...
- multitasking
- maximum customizability
- no iTunes required, you can connect it as storage device
- file explorer
- better notifications concept
- more professional, customizable home screen
- Bluetooth file transfers
- good Emulators like Morphgear
- and much more
Whether this is enough to make you accept the loss of ease of use compared to the iPhone is your choice.
Previously, the gap in ease of use has been much greater, that means you had to sacrifice a lot more in order to get all the features of Windows Mobile, but with the HD2 HTC has come so close that I think it's really the better choice for lots of people now.
However, everyone still has to decide for him/herself. I hope I could help.

my brother has the same question these days:
I recommend the HD2 for him. (or the Touch Pro 2 with QWERTY-Keyboard and a newer and better cooked ROM)
Why?
Because, his main usage is looking movies in the train, surfing the web, sometimes navigation and maybe sometimes a game.
-Usability is now thanks HTC Sense GUI never more a "problem". (almost equal for both mobiles, besides a poweruser)
-The sceen is very very huge, so he can type SMS, Texts, etc. very well with his big fingers, I'll install Touchpal or/and Tengo Thumb and/or Swype as additional keyboards. (one point for the HD2)
- The movies looks on this huge screen better than on Iphone (Point for the HD2)
- Same for the Navigation Software.
- Surfing the Web is with Opera almost the same, than with Iphones Safari. (and I'll install additional Skyfire, etc.) but on this high Resolution on the HD2 is the whole website without horizontal scrolling more common
- The HD2 is cheaper as the Iphone.
- I can support him, for example with a newer, faster, better ROM from the xda-devs, or support him to install another GUI, for example Schaps touchexperience, SPB Mobileshell, rlToday, Battery++, IFonez, etc. etc. etc. etc.
- He is not so interested in tons of apps. I give him years ago a HTC Magician / MDA Compact, with 100 Games (incl. Gameboy Color/Adv. Games for an emulator, and 200 programs/apps... ) but he realy used only 1% of them.

upcoming high end/speced phones..

I have a tytnII that I can't stand anymore. I was considering the EVO4G GSm version when it arrives, but it didn't impress me (specifically the screen quality) so onwards I go. Iphone 4 seems like the most normal phone visually, but I don't want to give steve any money so for a defective phone so i'm waiting. There is nothing out there I would be happy to buy..nothing even to consider..
When will the following speced phones come out?:
-720p screen 4"+
-1080p video capture or excellent quality 720p. HDMI out.
-a quality 10mp+ camera
-1.5ghz or dual core cpu's or tegra 2. it seems no matter that a ghz cpu is in phones today there's horrible lag..iphone uses a weaker cpu and has almost no lag..Something I can't understand.

Iphone has an excellent GPU, and uses it to make scrolling, tabs, etc more realistic, and faster.
Sadly, the tytn2 has a very fast GPU, without drivers. Skrew htc for that. Some guys at htcclassaction tried to develop 3d acceleration for it but nobody has ever seen the full untapped potential of the tytn2.
That's why the iphone can run games really fast.
Wm phones also have a tendency of slowing down the more you use them, you know - usually 3rd party programs do not clean up well after a big mess in they create in the registry
Did you try installing VanilJ's Android Eclair to your kaiser? no lag on that, and it works great. And dont forget you can overclock it to 486mhz.(rogue tools)
As for a new phone with those specs.... forget it lol, Get a netbook if you want that kind of thing. for now.

Technically speaking, Qualcomm HAS developed new system-on-a-chips, capable of most of your desired specs.
Here's an interview with Qualcomm about the new processors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCOD59yh0dY
My speculation: There is no doubt these phones will come out, every company wants the biggest, baddest m-effer out there. It will be in the early months of next year, MAYBE around February(?). Nobody really knows though.

I've never used an iphone before and my brother who is a diehard htc fan(and previous very anti iphone) HD2/HD touch, now uses the iphone and is waiting for stock to get an iphone 4. I might get his iphone 3gs.
screw HTC for lack of driver for the TYTNII is 100% correct which really makes me think twice before I would go with an HTC product again. the classaction was a waste of time. Nothing came out of it..what a shame. there was a huge push but nothing moved..
Microsoft had 10 years to be the leader and develop the crap OS and now the fact theyre loosing sales is something they deserve. I hope WP7 fails. windows mobile- no more for me..never again.
Android has a lot of potential but the fact that there's no standard between phones is a problem, and it shows. I mean look at these people slapping 1ghz cpus in and still lag. iphone is the smoothest running phone out there, hands down no argument whatsoever. It's optimized to run with those specific hardware specs and it just works, and it does it VERY well. almost no lag, and gaming like on a PSP..amazing. But like I said I'm not giving steve money for an antenna defect and iphones that overheat and light on fire.
I will take a look at the android rom..do you happen to have a link for the rom/rogue tools? I'm a bit scared to flash my phone but have been really interested in doing it for a while now. I'll have to get my Nokia n86 unlocked so I can have a phone if I brick mine.
btw, didn't motorola say they would put out a phone by the end of the year with these specs? I mean the tech is there, what's holding these companies from not slapping a tegra2/dual cpu in a phone for full performance?
look at all the phones, all 720p video /5mp /1ghz/ hdmi /400x800 but none are lookers- all the same performers with horrible lag.
The sony x10 was the one that took the first step with the above specs I think, and it's the one I followed closely but it took them forever to release it and they lost momentum. IMO it's a big failure. Also those who bought the x10 will get an android 2.1 update 6 months after..can you believe that..by the time they release 2.1, 2.2 will be out before.
Then the evo popped up, but seeing it's screen compared to the iphone 4 made me realize it's not all that. Also the video and camera are worse than the iphone. HTC is always lacking in the camera dept IMO.
I did kinda looked into the Dell streak but with the HORRIBLE lag I realize dell has great things to come..dell is a dying company..check this review:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3853/the-dell-streak-review/1
read "the performance problem" reminds me exactly of my tytnII.
How the hell is this..a 1 ghz processor, the product isn't even released and it has horrible performance issues..don't these retarded companies test these products beforehand and say this lag is unacceptable? there's nothing more that gets me fired up then waiting 3 seconds for the tytnII to cancel a phone. I press the button 7-10 times but it has all the time in the world..it's right then I want to smash the phone to the floor.
I did consider the Nokia N8 at 1 time but the screen spec turned me away really quick.
I did look at Samsungs I9000 but it too is a disappointment with the lag it has.
I guess if Apple would fix the overheating/antenna issue I will go with them, otherwise I'll wait and see if I can flash my tytn to android and will wait. The day I get a new phone I'm video myself smashing the phone against the wall and sending it to HTC with a bag of my dogs poop inside..I'm not kidding.
Give me a tegra2 phone and stand back..

baddest m-effer out there
HA HA..nice..

I used an iPhone 2g for the longest time on T-Mobile's EDGE network...I liked it because the music player was so nicely integrated into the device. I also liked how effortless the syncing was with iTunes, and most of the development/hacking was mac based. But then a guy named "planetbeing" ported android to it...and, well, here I am.
I'm now using a nexus one, and I'm actually pretty damn pleased with it, if I do say so myself . iOS may have been prettier, but I love the Android UI...Widgets, open-source...
The best part about the nexus is having Google's lovechild in me pocket...Early OTA updates, a HUGE community base, etc...

Iphones the only real option out there today, and I hate apple..I won't give in an buy a defective phone where the only thing he's willing to do (steve, at least be sincere about offering the dumb bumpers, and don't act like youre doing youre customers a favor..btw, haven't you ever heard of a recall?) is offer a stupid piece of plastic which ruins the aesthetics of the phone..
well like you and Malt said, I will have to wait..I'm hoping something around november will come..

untill you get your future phone....
remember, the tytn2 slows down if you install loads of crap on it. I downloaded a program called clean ram which helps a bit, but nothing beats a nice clean hard reset. If you install a program, then uninstall it, it WILL STILL HELP SLOW DOWN YOUR MOBILE. It adds up. Only with a hard reset can this be resolved.
You can download rogue tools on the android market, once you got it installed, it works nice.
VanilJ's android rom works really good for the kaiser, with the exception that the camera, and any other programs that use it, don't work. But believe me, it's a price veeeeeeeery well payed. Once you flush it, you won't be sorry.
Speaking of 3d drivers, android has opengl acceleration. And it's very good. I played quake3 multiplayer 30fps on my kaiser vs my brother on it( on lowest settings, but hey )
After 1 month using this rom however, it also started slowing down. So here are some of my suggestions.
1. Don't install unnecessary crap widgets. Each one will slow down your tytn2. I still use Calendar(Agenda widget), email, DigiClock and News though. Theyre just too usefull! ^^
2. It will basically turn your kaiser into a toy to show off to your friends. Sure its really cool and fast. But as for buisness there is NO outlook contacts/ calendar support, and once you leave windows mobile you will realize how comfortable your calendar was, and you will (don't quote me ) suddenly start to miss active sync. lol yeah. It was the only thing microsoft got right. Sort of.
But anyway, there is an alternative, it syncs through google contacts, gmail etc.
It is far worse than activesync, considering that you always need internet access, and that you are providing google with your business info. The appointments etc don't show up on the main screen without widgets. You will miss your calendar's colours and features :\
3. If it gets unreliable, drop your tytn2 at a height of 400metres, and it should all work fine again.
Anyway, on the whole I am pleased with it. You will be amazed if you try it.
And one more very important thing - hold the internet explorer button to switch between programs. press it to go to home. took me a week to figure out.