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I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
Hey there guys,
New to this great Comunity, still new to Windows Mobile.
I'm a tech geek alright, and I love having all the newest tech gadgets around. I've wanted to get a WM phone so many times throughout the last few years but they were always behind in lots of aspects compared to the Symbian ones. Then HTC released its TyTNII with its holy specs, great design and somewhat compact size. This was my phone! Yeah, right! Then I found out about this huge issue with the video performance and followed it for about three monts waiting for a solution either from HTC or XDA. And OK - HTC had some problems with Qualcomm support for its stolen from Broadcomm chipsets whatever. So they released Diamond (and announced Raphael) with a new chipset and "3D GPU" which "processor enhances the user interface". And then again it needs tweaks to make it - not better, but just usable. Then all the other bugs and flaws users say about in this forum.
Can't HTC build a quality device that just works out of the box?! Then leave it to us mostly to customize it and somehow improve its usability!? Man, everyday I read about newer and bigger bugs and flaws. May be most of them will be overcomed thanks to this comunity, but were is HTC with its support for its high-priced devices!?
And again I'm about to leave the idea of having WM phone.
I've looked around for any other brands and models but found none more appealing. What do you think? What's the best WM device I can get in the next few months?
Any opinions are much appreciated.
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
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Give blackberry a chance They've never failed me. Infact, I had my HTC Touch Dual for about a month before switching back. lol.
calling someone is too complicated?
1.) hit the green button
2.) start tapping away or choose speed dial
3.) hit the green button
its similar to what other phones want from you in order to know who you want to call. If thats too complicated, you may also try voice commander?
that beeing said, I am very happy with my new i-mate 9502, but I also considered the samsung i780 and it looks like people who bought it are very happy with it, especially with the form factor and performance.
edit: key for me with winMo devices are things like hardware keys, to reach functions quickly, using a good launcher/today setup like pocketplus +
phoneweaver + todayagenda, etc. and a nice hardware keyboard.
partyhardy said:
simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
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Click to collapse
Calling is simple, one button... de ding "call simon mobile" etc.
The no error message and not getting calls though is an issue i dislike.
I want a "nippy" device we need better hardware to run the software and better software optimisation for the hardware.
i just bought htc touch enhanced couple of days ago, and for the price it's great. Now with the Diamond coming out, htc touch is getting cheaper, but it's great to use nontheless.
Installed some stuff on it, not enough to make it sluggish but enough to make it a pure pleasure to use and i would definitely recommend it.
Prekrasen telefon za tzenata si.
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
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Click to collapse
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
demonizator said:
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
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Click to collapse
Note that the people that use this site are not those that are going to say "my device is great" and then go away... The kind of people here are either those not satisfied, or those that want a little bit more from the hard ware and are not representative of all the device users.
The Diamond is an immensely powerfully device, and even with the UI stacked on top, it ticks away far more reliably than the iPhone (which for me just locked up a lot). If you don't like the UI, disable it and you'll have one of the most powerful WM devices there is...
WM devices don't need tweaking, but this site is devoted to tweaking them. I ran my Prophet perfectly happily on the stock WM5 ROM for over a year, before discovering this site to get it unlocked when the contract ended. I didn't need to tweak it or flash countless ROMs, but I wanted to...
I really hope you're right. I'm gonna wait a little bit more and get the Touch Pro version. It's just all these flaws I read about that stopped me from buying WM the past few years. But I guess I have to give up something to gain something more.
Maybe you want to take a look to the new Samsung. It seems as it's going to be a good device.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1039
WM6 for the money?
I bought a Dash on ebay and upgraded it to WM6 for $150.00.
I have a Mogul now, but the Dash was way easier to use.
In terms of bang-for-the-buck I think the Samsung i780 takes the cake. It is the most specced out phone in that price category. And if you buy one today it will have the newer firmware so it shouldn't have any real issues.
Oh and calling people on a WiMo phone is far easier than any other phone. Voice Command baby. It's the reason I can't leave the WiMo platform even if there are other great choices like the iPhone, Blackberry or even the all-but-dead Palm Treos. And if you DON'T like using Voice Command come on it's very easy to call someone as mentioned. In fact, back when Nokia had crap for menus and directional pads to get to your contacts WiMo phones had touchscreens that made it really easy in comparison. Today the touchscreen is still easier to use than the various jog dials, joysticks or what not that conventional phones have.
+1 for the i780. It is by far the quickest and most responsive PPC I have ever used, and the form factor is perfect. No rotating screens to wait for, all the keyboard shortcuts you could want, terrific build quality, good battery life, bargain price, and none of the HTC Flo-bloat that turns their machines from reasonable PPCs into lagging, crash-happy iPhone wannabes.
I gotta add a +2 for the I780 as well.
I was holding out for a touch pro myself, in fact i cut out a picture of it and put it on my wall at the office. Iv'e owned quite a few HTC models over the last while as well as a I600, and i gotta say the I600 altho it had less functionality far outshined all but my tytn 2, altho the tytn 2 could not match the I600 im picture quality with the camera.
Last week i was in vodacom shop and saw the I780 demo model, picked it up and played with it for a while and i must say it has been a long time since a phone made me go "wow" , i was totaly amazed at the speed of the thing, the look and feel of it is great, samsung put alot of work into making the menu's just right for any user from beginner to power user. I made up my mind right there and then and bought one on my credit card, that was 7 days ago.
my experience so far :
Proprioty connector sux since i have a bunch of standard usb cables lying around, but still its not a train smash since you get usb cable, car charger, spare battery as well as a seperate portable battery charger as well with the phone.
Speed is AWSOME, 624mhz of power you will definitely notice, i have not found a single movie clip that has once lagged or was out of sinc with video/audio. this phone is really FAST, even when multi tasking it doesnt slow down. i have 2 friends who own tytn 2 and both commented on the speed, they both think i tweaked it to make it faster, they refuse to believe its the stock speed. ofcourse i did not tweak it.
Plenty of memory, i have 152mb free memory space on the phone and i have around 20 apps installed. the phone can also technicaly take up to 32gb cards i have read, altho most users use 1gb-8gb.
GPS is great, i had a bit of problem setting it up as i didnt bother reading the manual etc, but once i figured it out it worked like a charm, it pin pointed me in seconds. google maps work great as well. Garmin XT which comes with the phone is in my opinion far better than tomtom could ever be so i am very happy with samsung's choice of gps software.
Touch pad mouse was what put me off buying the phone in the first place, but after 6 days i find myself using it more than anything else, it was weird to use the first few days but it is second nature now and the phone just wouldnt be the same without it.
the keypad looks really tiny and i have biggish fingers. I dont know why, maybe its because they are beveled quite a bit or something, but i find it very easy and comfortable to use, do yourself a favour and try it on a demo model, you will see what i mean. the phone has a bunch of shortcut keys that sit in all the right spots, thumbs up to samsung for doing a good job there. one thing i would have liked was a jog dial for easy up and down scrolling in opera, I downloaded a app that changes volume up/down to scroll up/down and my problem was solved.
Screen is nice and bright, even in sunlight i dont have a problem. 320x320 at 128dpi is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 95% of software out there works flawless at this resolution, since the release of the phone software developers have all been upgrading to support it. its mainly only HTC home that is a problem, but spb mobile which has more funtions works perfect so i am not bothered. I have installed all 20 of my favorite apps and all work nicely so im happy. there are some games that might be an issue tho, but its mostly old titles, every new game being released supports this resolution.
3G. Wireless, HSDPA etc : with my tytn 2 i had 1 bar to my router from the living room, with this phone i have almost full signal, i was really surprised with that. in the bathroom i used to get gprs only with the tytn 2, with this phone i get 3G+. anyway, that is how i have compared it to my old phone and found this one to have far better signal quality.
overall i love the phone, i am convinced i made the right choice. i would have loved a flash to be included with the phone, but other than that i just cant find any flaws.
I cant really comment on battery life as i am still playing with everything alot and using more battery life than i would on avarage, but currently battery lasts me almost 2 full days and trust me, i put it under alot of stress plus you get a second battery with the phone for free. but i estimate 3 to 4 days if you dont put to much strain on it.
O also forgot to mention, video calling worked out of the box much to my surprise. phone came with the E1 rom installed.
Software currently on phone and working perfectly :
Skype
SmS Chat ( threaded sms app )
google maps
Opera
core player
real player
Esmertec Jbed
Advabced config Tools
Adobe reader
Fun contact
Keyswop
Pocket IRC
Pocket Rar
PqzII
Safemode 2
Garmin XT
SPB Mobile shell
WKTaskL
Samsung today plugin
Astraware Casino
Tetris
Machines of war
Flash player
Total commander
Call firewall.
And no i did not install realvga, i am using the default 128dpi resolution i got the phone with.
Anyway, hope this helps with your descision. what you really need to do it test the phone yourself, i warn you tho, once you pick it up you wont want to put it down
In my country the HTC Tytn 2 is selling for R8900, and its already an dated model.
the I780 is selling for R5200 which is ALOT cheaper and this phone blows smoke in the tytn 2's face. so in my opinion this is by far the best bang for buck out there.
Its kinda like buying a 9600gt when everyone else is buying the 8600gts .... just love seeying their faces when they realise they just pissed away a chunk of cash on the wrong thing
If all else fails read this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411053
The best windows mobile device for it's money is undoubtely the HTC Shift, for a mere 1000 dollars you'll get a run-down WindowsMobile OS, but also Vista. So you'll have a hybrid for the price of just a good laptop.
Isn't is great ?
I think the HTC Touch PRO will blow the competition away, seriously!!!
I was a symbian freak for years untill I bought my current device, the HTC S710 "Vox". Before the Vox I went trough several Symbian S60 devices including Nokia 7610, 6630, N70 & N73.
At first I thougt wm was a complete mess... and the UI looked terrible imo... I was also a bit shocked that there was no copy/paste (at least in wm6 standard). In S60 there was a dedicated pencil key used for just copy/paste actions + other stuff..
Things have changed...
Now after using my Vox fox exactly one year there's no way I'd go back to only using symbian S60 again.
Even though I'm only using the non-touch version of wm I've noticed all the advantages of wm compared with symbian S60.
Let me list a few of them:
1. Messaging: Sending SMS & MMS with a S60 device is OK but nothing more, the whole messaging interface in a S60 3d edition device is inferior. It's hard to explain but it's just doesn't compare to what it feels like on a wm device. It's like using a 3310 with a color screen if you know what I mean. Oooold T9 (forget about xt9 with word prediction & etc), the whole interface looks like a joke, and the S60 MMS editor doesn't even have a 3'rd of every options you can find in a standard WM device these days.
2. Email: OMG, If you wanna check your mail on a S60 device you'll be seriously depressed. Reading emails on a S60 device is like reading a standard SMS. You can forget all about HTML email and everything looks incredibly boring. Yes there are some really good 3rd party apps like profimail but still they're no match for the built-in mobile outlook when it comes to displaying your emails.
3. Calendar: There's no comparision here, WM6 calendar thrumps the S60 one, nothing more to say!
4. Contacts: S60 is far far behind, there's so much easier and faster finding a contact in WM6, especially when you can search contacts quickly just by typing there first letters using xt9... And with Live messenger integrated (love it or hate it) with contacts it's a nice addition imo.
5. Office applications: OMG... This is overkill for S60!!! Even WM6 standard edition nowadays includes Office mobile which beatifully renders word, excell & powerpoint files. It's a shame it doesn't allow you to create new documents (on WM6 standard) but that can easily be fixed with a simple patch from modaco forums... S60 includes quickoffice, it's not a bad application at all but documents rendered in quickoffice doesn't even look nearly as good as they do in office mobile.
6. WIFI: No competition here at all... WM is superior in remembering hotspots and connectivity.
7. ActiveSync: Says it all doesn't it??? Nokia have PC Suite, it's a great app but it's no match if you're using outlook... It works ok but doesn't sync everything like activesync does so wm is the winner here as well....
8. Live Messenger: Probably not very important to a lot of people but for me it's very important. With WM6 I can use the native WM Live messenger client completely for free. There's no way to do that on Symbian because MS is charging for using it on other platforms
There's probably more I could add to the list but I must mention all my troubles with wm in the beginning have been solved, I'm using Vito Copy/Paste for the copy & paste issue & I've also added celetask to a hardware key so my phone actually works better in this apartment than I could ever wish four... Of course Symbian S60 also have advantages, like better cameras & video recording, more display colors & better gaming with the new N-gage platform etc... but in the end I think WM is a more advanced & better platform. I think WM is more appealing for geeks & techheads because you can tweak your device to infinity. And I'm still only talking about WM Standard, WM6 PRO is even more versatile.
S60 is fun for a while but in the end it gets boring as hell...
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
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Performance issue of WM are device specific. After being a HTC hardcore for many years, and after quite a number of frustating moments I decided to switch.....almost bought myself the new Nokia E71 and abandon WM altotgether BUT - I decided to give it one more try with WM and now it's with a Samsung. And that's how I ended with the i780.
With the i780 (DXHE1 Rom), it's like a rediscovery for me. After getting used to HTC sluggishness and sporadic freeze-ups, I was genuinely astounded by how nimble and steadfast this i780 is. I can recall until now I have not encountered any freeze-ups no matter how I abuse the programs running back to back. Yes some buggy program may screw up but the nice thing is it won't freeze the whole phone unlike HTC devices where a single program fails it will bring down the whole phone.
And for the price, the i780 is a steal. It has all the arsenal one could expect from HTC flagship models yet it cost way cheaper - that is a real deal to me.
If you are done with HTC, don't blame it on WM. Try different make, like i-Mate Arima build or Samsung or even Asus.
Before I get started, please don't scream. I am just *waiting* for the douchebag assault to begin, because after all, this is an internet forum and it'll happen come hell or high water no matter what I say. This post is not for the douchebags, it's for the reasonable people who are willing to discuss, listen and talk in a rational way.
I got my first fuze the day before launch (November 10th), and out of the gate it was problematic. Now, I was and still am enamored by the feature set, and the hardware is amazing when it's working right. My first fuze locked up and crashed programs *constantly*. After a week and a half I exchanged it for another, and this was a better experience, but still flawed.
Fuze #2 never once locked up, but it did crash programs pretty frequently. Not every day and not every program and not even consistently, but it did so with enough frequency to be damn annoying. The AT&T software load, as everyone already knows, is complete ****. It makes a 528Mhz phone with 8 times the RAM of my old Wizard feel slower than the Wizard with a hacked ROM, and that's just sad. I've been using my Wizard (a cingular 8125) since launch, and I can honestly say that unlike most phones the experience only kept getting *better* as the hardware aged, and it was able to do so as a direct result of the fine folks of XDA who have cooked up some really amazing ROM's. The work you guys do is phenomenal and it only gets better as time goes on.
And so I loaded up a custom ROM from here on my Fuze. It was, to say the least, WORLDS better than the AT&T stock ROM. But it still had its annoyances. Some programs would still crash. There was still hesitation here and there when using the Manila 3D UI. Finding and acquiring software to run on it is a pain. Don't get me wrong--Windows Mobile has GOBS of great software available and I've blown hours upon hours finding it, playing with it, enjoying it, over the last 2 and a half years.
Of course, that's part of the problem--to get the really good stuff you have to search endlessly all over the web to find the really great stuff for WinMo. XDA is a terrific place because there is so much stuff discussed and linked to, but even here you have to trudge through miles of posts and it's a pain, plus there's the whole process of downloading, unarchiving, copying to the device, installing to the device--only to do it all over again when the next great ROM comes out. This isn't the fault of anyone here, but it's evidence of a problem that's grown beyond the community's ability to solve--the problem is with Windows Mobile itself and the infrastructure that does--or more accurately does NOT--support it.
Let me 'splain. When I finally had enough of my Fuze, I took it back to AT&T to find something else. I dicked with the Blackberry, I hated it. I've always hated blackberry, both from an infrastructure support side and from an interface side. So that was out. I've never been an Apple guy EVER. In college we had some piece of **** Mac's that were just miserable to use and I learned very well to hate them, so I hadn't even considered an iPhone.
And then I tried it. My first response, as an official Mac hater, was to find its flaws. The camera is mediocre (2mp? LAME!). But then, I have a REAL camera for taking any serious pictures (let's face it, no cell phone camera is going to replace a nice Canon or Nikon any time soon for high end photography). The screen resolution isn't as nice as the Fuze...yet it's still better than the Wizard was, and it's not so low that it ends the world. I hate that there are no hardware buttons except for Home, Power, Mute and the volume toggle, but then, the Fuze wasn't replete with buttons either and I'd already weaned myself off the Wizard's multiple buttons anyway. And it pisses me off that I can't use a friggin' MicroSD card to cheaply expand my storage.
But then I started to see what the device is really all about, and what really blew me away is how easy it is to use and to access a fat library of good apps, both paid and free. I don't even have to leave the device, I can browse it all straight from the phone, install it straight from the phone in a single step, and when I plug it into my PC it's all synced. When the next software update happens I just sync and everything I installed is put right back where I wanted it to be.
In short, I finally see why people are tripping over the iPhone. It's not the hardware, because let's face it the iPhone is outclassed in hardware by plenty of phones, including the Fuze. It's the interface, it's the software, it's the ease of use. And for me, at this point in my life where I'm trying to do more with my time than ever before, that makes it a great device choice for me. The iPhone, simply enough, will save me time and effort, and it enables me to do things I just can't do with Windows Mobile.
Now, my sincere hope is that WinMo 7 fixes these many issues. I hope it comes with an easy and fast UI. I hope the devices have multitouch screens. I hope there is finally an integrated backend infrastructure and an app store that nets easy access to both developers and consumers of applications and games. I hope it standardizes on a required minimum of built in storage but outdoes Apple by allowing you to expand it further with MicroSD (or whatever the hell comes next, but man do I hope NanoSD isn't next or I'll never be able to find my goddamn cards). And for goodness sakes, STOP vendors from loading the damn phones with all this bloat!
Compared to what Apple's done with the iPhone OS it feels like Windows Mobile is standing still, like Microsoft has dropped the ball and just stood there slack jawed as it rolled away. Maybe it's because they're so focused on kicking Sony in the nuts in the console wars, I dunno. All I can tell you is that what iPhone's software is today, WinMo's should have been a long time ago. The only reason it's survived this long is because guys like the geniuses on this forum have made it do things it was clearly never built to do in the first place.
With any luck I'll be trading in my iPhone for a WinMo 7 device, but I guess that remains to be seen. To everyone who's done anything for this community, I want to say thanks, because you made my enjoyment of my Wizard a true joy for almost 3 years.
Thanks,
Jason
I have mostly always used WM devices but in the mix of my many phones I have used both iPhones and I too agree that the interface is much simpler, easier to use, and direct, I also agree that certain apps specifically the games on the iPhone are uncomparable to the WM devices. Lastly, also think that the ease of app searching in the iPhone is the best, just browsing through the many apps is a joy.
With that said, using the iPhone is (to me) frustrating because most if not all apps crash, the web surfing is a pain because I remeber surfing and safari would constantly close. I traded my iPhone for the fuze and updates have done little to improve these problems, my wife still has the iphone 3g and I always have the same problems on her phone. In addition, I exchange my iphones multiple times because of these problem and they kept on happening. The only truly thing I miss from the iphone are the games and sometimes the appstore. The lack of multitasking is also horrible even by using the background tasking app when jailbreaking doesn't solve this dilema.
It really depends on what you need.
I honestly couldn't care less about the whole openness debate.
At least personally, I can jailbreak and get whatever (ok, maybe not) I want on an iphone.
The ui is much more responsive, and the screen is much larger.
BUT! I need physical keys, and that pretty much was the sole reason to not consider anything else.
Yesterday, while on the train, I was reading some stuff on Opera, while listening to music on Kimona, and typing away on Word, while swtiching between apps using Task Facade. Can I do this on the iPhone? Not as far as I know.
And about the larger screen, if I need to be typing frequently, the larger screen really doesn't benefit me since half of it will be filled with a virtual keyboard; what matters is a high res display. After comparing the two side by side, my choice was pretty clear.
Then there's another thing about the whole "responsiveness" debate. Honestly, at least with custom ROM's (which is really a bad excuse, since no one should have to do this to get past the minimum responsiveness), and running one app at a time, it's very snappy.
My point is, I find it inaccurate to state that the Fuze is a gateway to an iPhone without considering the target group and general purpose of winmo devices. Granted, more winmo phones want to hit the mainstream market, but let's face it, Fuze isn't targeted to hit any of the consumers out there. At&t did absolutely nothing to market it, and that really should be enough to invalidate the statement you provided. After all this is a forum where more technically inclined people hang around.
Wow, that's a lot of words. I'm surprised my ADD didn't kick in while reading it.
If you think that the iPhone will free you from crashes, think again. Yes, the interface is slick, but it is not the flawless stable system you see on the TV adds. I had the IPhone for a month before and returned it for the Fuze mainly because I got tired of Safari as well as any other memory intensive app constantly crashing.
The phone just doesn't have enough memory to be as good as it can be. My wife still has her iPhone which I recently upgraded to firmware version 2.2. This weekend, out of the blue, I asked her how it was performing. She replied "I just has to reboot the phone a minute ago."
I figure, if I have to deal with software lagginess and crashes, I might as well have a system that is accessible and customizable instead of one that is locked down. Oh, and the few extra buttons on the Fuze certainly do make a difference. But really, I find the Fuze with a new ROM MUCH MUCH more stable than the iPhone ever was.
Nice post, well thought out and honest. I, too, have a Fuze and am considering an Iphone. The bigger screen is a major factor; the Fuze screen is just so .. small! high-res is great, but pointless when you need to zoom in so close on things to read them that you might as well be running QVGA.
It seems I have a love/hate relationship with the Fuze, as many do here. One day, it drives me nuts -- Opera freezes up, scrolls and zooms in and out and behaves weird, the phone acts slow, bad GPS fix, and so on. I get frustrated and seriously consider returning it. Then, the next day it works like a dream! Quick GPS fix, opera works perfect, I discover something I did not know about before (i.e., circling your finger on a portion of a photo to zoom in right there -- cool!) and I would be sad to see it go.
I guess all we can do is be patient. As you said, other phones got better with age; I think it stands to reason that the same thing will happen with the Fuze. As better optimized web browsers get released (i.e., Fennec) and (hopefully) video drivers get updated, the whole experience should get better. If by some miracle we get WM7, who knows what that might bring. yeah, the hardware is frustrating -- small screen, weird buttons, no headphone jack -- but I think it is enough to deal with for now if we can get the software and drivers all optimized.
Thanks for all the great replies, guys. So far I have had the iPhone for just a shade over 48 hours, and I've updated to 2.2. I've experience no crashes yet, but I did need to reboot once after installing an app last night (weird, yet no biggie to me because I'm used to it in the Windows world).
I have to agree--I HATE that I can't run more than one app at a time on the iPhone. I don't know why they do that, but I can only presume that it's done that way in order to force memory to stay free so the OS remains quick and responsive. It's kind of a ****ty tradeoff IMHO, but at the same time...I'm liking the responsiveness and I *usually* don't do more than one thing at a time anyway. It's nice to have the option though.
By all means, I don't think Fuze is a waste at all (except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA), and I think that when it matures it'll be damn difficult to beat. I fully expect WinMo7 to eventually arrive on it (barring some bizarre hardware requirements, but who knows?), but even if it doesn't I think the ROM devs around here will eventually harness this thing into a terrific device. Unfortunately I just don't feel like waiting around, because for my almost $400 out the door I feel I should have walked out of the AT&T store with a phone that blew the doors off most others without any need for a hack.
On the bright side, by the time the ROM's are really mature and crazy fast/stable, the Fuze will probably have dropped in price substantially
For those developing ROM's, some of my thoughts on UI are:
1. Larger buttons! Especially for closing apps and using drop downs, those tiny little default X's are miserable for finger access. Finger friendly is the way of the future.
2. Customize Touchflo. I've seen some slick youtube videos with guys doing very iPhone/Coverflowish stuff and it appears buttery smooth. Of course, I could never find where to get the software to try it out, but if it's doable, heck...do it
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
Just some thoughts!
I can relate to OP. I'm upgrading form a Wizard as well (T-Mo US MDA). While new ROM's certainly made my Wizard better, I can say that custom ROM's on it were not an absolute requirement. While I continued to be more amazed by my Wizard, I just continue to be a little less pissed off at my Fuse.
XDA is the ONLY reason I have not returned my Fuze. I'm finally back to a totally stripped ROM, with no fancy I wish I bought an IPhone TouchFlo Horse ****, and no AT&T application Douchebaggery.
OP, I feel you on the lack of buttons. I miss playing pocket Nester / GB on my Wizard. I think it says alot when it is totally outclassed and still sticks around as my "GameBoy".
I definitely have mixed feelings about the Fuze. I waited to buy this over the Tilt for the camera, and I have been somewhat impressed by it. I miss the Wizard's Keyboard layout and overall style, with the buttons NOT touching each other.
@Fatheadpi,
I can't agree more (though I am rather enamored with the iPhone's UI. It's not the animation and all that crap though, it's the sheer *speed* of it and ease of getting to anything I want to get to).
Fuze is an impressive piece of hardware, yet at the same time there are issues with it--primarily software--that are really hard to overlook on such an expensive device.
The iPhone has been around for quiet a while now, and has had 2 revisions. The Fuze is fresh out of the box, so making a comparison so early in it's release is a little judgemental. it is possible that alot of out problems can be solved by a nice ROM update (like video drivers). Or just out right fixed by custom ROMs here. if you think that apple listens to what the people want, just take a look at the cut/paste, or Video recording issues.
One of the "great" things about the iPhone is one of it's biggest weakness too. The app store, while its a one stop shopping for apps, is also controled by apple, and they are the final say on what kind of programs you are allowed to run on your device. You also can write new ones (think Schaps Advance config) you have to take what they want you to have and like it. If you try to break their rules, then you might find yourself owning a brick when you sync it.
I think you need to look at this in a little bit of a different light here.
Apple has for the most part stated that they are a software company; almost all of their efforts these days are portals to Itunes where Apple makes money hence the reason for lacking hardware but great UIs and access to Itunes. They make loads more money on Itunes than on hardware.
Looking at this from AT&T's viewpoint they make money on data plans, minutes, texting, basically anything crossing their network so these types of things work great on the phone.
A third party to all of this is HTC which has to make something attractive but gets no additional money at all after you buy the hardware.
So looking at it this way, it makes perfect sense why a pleasurable experience on a Winmo device is driven by the end user, in essence no one else is interested in your problem because they don't make money off of you.
So maybe some entrepreneur out there should figure out a nifty UI like iTunes but for Winmo where a user can buy a new ROM, or try out/buy some cool apps and so forth, figuring out a cool way to upgrade the device.
The real truth here is that Apple owns everything about the iPhone, there is no one entity that owns Winmo devices so individuals end up taking over and this creates multiple and sometimes confusing paths to good stuff.
-Tim
jasongw said:
(except in AT&T's horrible software load. What the hell are they thinking? Honestly they need to fire whoever builds their ROM's and hire somebody who does this as a hobby on XDA)
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If they don't do that, we may have to pay more for the device. So I really don't mind all the bloatware (you get what you pay for )
3. I dunno if this is possible, but how about setting up some sort of repository for free apps and building a thin client that could run in touchflo, connect to the server, and snag a list of apps available and maybe even install those directly to the phone. I don't see any reason not to steal the App Store's idea, it works well and it's a joy to use. Microsoft should have done this already
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http://getgecko.org/
I think these guys are trying to do just that. The problem is, ironically, but obviously, the openness.
Then there's this. It's from handango. Never tried it, probably not even close to what apple has. It's not the lack of it, but the way it's presented, which is precisely why--and you nailed this point--iphones sell. Of course, as I mentioned previously, most winmo users are at least prosumers, so they know what to do without all the oversimplifications.
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
@g2tl-- Gecko seems like a great idea, I really hope they make some good progress. I hadn't heard of that before, but I'll definitely be following their progress from here on out! Thanks for the heads up!
As for getting what you pay for, that's almost always true but I think there's an exception here. On the fuze you're getting more impressive hardware, but you're getting a much less polished piece of software that's quite outdated and difficult to manage by modern standards. Now, I'm a 13 year IT geek (good lord, did I just admit that?) so I've never been afraid of getting my hands dirty, and goodness knows it's a miracle my old 8125 survived all the flashing I did to it, but at a certain point it's nice for a device to just *work* without a lot of dicking around with it.
I am sure WinMo will eventually be that software, probably with WinMo7. It's just not there yet, and I think the real shame of that is that an awesome device like the Fuze (or any flavor of the touch pro for that matter) won't really be used to its full potential because the software is lagging so far behind the device itself.
Tim, I do get all that, and you're exactly right. I also think that's where a great many of the problems with WinMo come from, the fact that carriers can just shovel piles and piles of junk onto these phones just drags down the user experience.
I'd say maybe Microsoft needs to put out their own phone where they can present a coherent experience (their new Xbox Live interface is friggin' awesome), but then I'm sure we'd have a lot of crying foul from assorted carriers and competitors who cry monopoly. There's probably no easy solution from a development and implementation standpoint, but from a consumer standpoint it's actually fairly easy: go buy the device that offers what you need.
Right now for me--and surprisingly so because I never imagined buying one of these until 2 days ago--that device appears to be iPhone. I truly do hope for a WinMo7 device or even a Fuze WinMo7 hack that'll win me back eventually. I still love the dark side
jason - Suggestion for you, as this is finally what has made me very happy with my Fuse. Probably a little too late as you're running an I-Phone.
Think about this: You were a Wizard user. When you upgraded, you probably wanted a better camera, more power, and 16 gig storage options. You were probably running an OC'd cooked rom WITHOUT TouchFlo.
Here's my suggestion.
Starting from scratch, I have the phone I wanted after about an hour's work. TouchFlo 3D just continues to piss me off. The only nice things about it were the picture viewer, weather, and the music setup. However, I have music controls on my BT Headset, and I'll probably go find the HTC Music player / plugin tonite. I have HTC picture viewer installed in an out of the way place for the rare times I look at my pics. I'll figure something out for the weather option, tho I've lived without it for a number of years.
Thinking about it, it all kinda makes sense. PC users build PC's and use Windows because we know exactly what we want and how we want it. We don't put flashy, pointless bull**** interfaces up front to slow things down. (at least pre-Vista, anyways.)
Still tho, the Raphael and Diamond needed a different control pad and button set. Macs were built around the idea that an average idiot (no offense to MacFags) could just use something. PC's are designed with a bunch of buttons because PCFags will customize that to do awesome stuff.
jasongw said:
Jblakk--
I get what you're saying about comparing the two, but I have to disagree. The Fuze is brand new, but essentially Fuze is to, say, an HTC Wizard as iPhone 3G is to iPhone. That's to say, it's not new, it's merely a refinement of what's come before.
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I'll have to dissagree with you there, as the hardware is so different, it's a copletely different device. I came from the Hermes(8525) and it's not even close to the same(and I did love my heremes)
And Fuze gets a lot right, I know, just as iPhone gets a lot wrong. Yes, it's judgmental to point out the strengths and weaknesses of the fuze, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Judging is a natural and appropriate action for humans, and I'd argue we should judge more, not less (but in a rational way, not an emotional "I'll kill you for disagreeing" way). That's philosophy though, and I'm just talking phone/PDA's
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I think what I said just came out wrong. I think over-critical would have been more accurate. I think that we look at things in perspective, and make decisions based on our needs. While I know that neither device is perfect(what one is?) we just need for figure out what job does the job best for us, and makes us happy.
I realize that Apple has final say on the app store, but from what I can see it appears that they aren't being too tyrannical about the content. There are literally thousands of apps available, and so far I've filled up 5 screens worth of apps I wanted to try out. It was easy to find them, easy to install them, and for the ones I didn't quite like, it was easy to kick them to the curb.
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Don't forget that not all of thoes apps are free, and you don't get demos of stuff try make sure they work as advertised. I have friends that nickle and dime themselves too death due to the app store. I don't think the idea is bad idea by any means though.
I have to say you're dead on about cut/paste and video recording. I can't even imagine how they left those out, especially cut and paste. I mean does it get any more basic than cut and paste? . Hopefully that will be resolved soon, I can't imagine it's all that complicated.
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iPhone users have been asking for thoes 2 functions for well over a year, and they all say...Its comming soon...for a year now. I'm guessing that Mr. Jobs doesnt want you to have it for some reason.
My point here has never been to say that the Fuze is super terrible and iPhone is the uber shizz; clearly both phones have their strengths, and both have their weaknesses. Right now, based on my experience with both and coming off the still-my-overall-favorite-phone-to-date the HTC Wizard, I feel that where the iPhone leads is entirely in the execution of the software. Windows Mobile 6 is barely a step above 5 (in fact, it IS 5 if you get right to it, 5.2.xxxx) and it's really showing its age.
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I won't dissagree with you on that. 6.1 was a bigger improvement that 5 to 6 was. Hopping that 6.5 will get the boost it very much needs. And don't ever forget that Touchflo 3D was HTCs way of hiding the windows interface, due to its seriously unfrendlyness. But also remember that iPhone was geared towards the casual Multi-media use, and the Fuze is aimed towards the average power user.
I think a reasonable argument could be made that the Fuze hardware deserves better than what Windows Mobile's current incarnations have to offer. However, as I mentioned, I do think the miracle workers at XDA will pull some sweet tricks out of their hats eventually and make the fuze pretty damn sweet. And if Microsoft follows its usual pattern, WM7 will finally catch up to iPhone's OS and probably refine and improve on it in various ways. It'll be exciting to see what happens on that front
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will agree with that. But just like the arguement over PC vs mac, it's not a fair comparison. It needs to be Dell XPS vs Mac, or Toshiba Satalite vs Mac. There is no such thing as a PC (technicaly a Mac is a PC too...Personal Computer). And Apple has the unfair advantage of only writing software for papriatary hardware, where Microsoft has to write software for millions of combinations of hardware, and in the end it's all about drivers.
In the end, see what serves your needs best, but I do not think that the Fuze will drive anyone to be iPhone users. With the Fuzes lack of advertising, and the Apple's Mind numbing advetising, I think that people that look at the fuze as an option already have the mindset that the iPhone just will not do what they need.
In advance let me say thanks to everyone for having such a civil discussion. I am thoroughly impressed and appreciative. I was *sure* somebody would have come in with the raving and yelling attitude by now and I've happily been proven wrong. I REALLY appreciate that; flame wars got old and boring a loooong time ago IMHO
@Fatheadpi,
Thank you for the suggestion. At some point in the future I hope to get another fuze or perhaps its successor. Of course, by then I hope for WM7 and an actual answer to the ease of use features in iPhone (I'm still a PC guy at heart, I'd love to see Apple get ***** slapped at their own game). Suffice to say, unless AT&T cleans up its act (which I doubt, they never did do right by Wizard users and it was only XDA cookers who made that device be all that it could be) I am sure that the Fuze will continue to be a "Cooked ROMs only" device.
@JBlakk,
Wow, what a nice response . I won't go point by point, but I think you've made a lot of good points, and I agree with many. Hell, I still build my own PC's (I've only recently started using Vista though, and I mostly hate it so I turn off almost all the fancy crap).
Also I think you definitely have a point about the marketing aspect and who the fuze is (or at least ought to be) targeted toward. I'd make the argument though that if AT&T is targeting the "power user" they still missed the mark with the software by loading it will all that ridiculous bloat.
I like the appearance of TouchFlo3D, but man the performance is just sad, especially on such a high end piece of phone hardware. My biggest gripe is absolutely in the software execution, but I am, to reiterate again, quite confident that as the ROM's mature and the cookers get their heads around the nuances of the phone itself, we'll see some amazing performance from Fuze.
Thanks again guys! It's been loads of fun
Jason
I'll be civil...
I understand what you are saying, if you just want something that works 99.9% of the time the iPhone is the perfect phone for you. I however like to play with things and no how much I deny it I like finding problems and fixing them, and Microsoft's products are perfect for that. Also the open source-ness of M$ is another thing that draws me to their products.
I was worried, being an open Apple hater(I have nightmares about getting iPhones for Christmas...), that AT&T would not carry another phone with a touch screen after they signed the deal with Apple. The Touch Pro is/will be perfect for me in that sense. Apple is flashy and pretty, but extremely constrained in the sense that Apple likes to keep it's followers in a choke hold, but that's my opinion too.
I also like the keyboard of the Fuze/Touch Pro/Raphael(Why do they need so many names for the same device?!)
So in short I'm not going to flame you because you chose an Apple product over a M$ one, I honestly don't care as it's your money and your decision. I think the latest Touch Pro's are better than the first release models though...but that could be just speculation.
((Also the lack of cut/copy/paste is an EXTREME drawback for me))
I also went to the darkside (iPhone) after returning my fuze. I have said it in previous posts and to my co-workers that have both iPhones and WinMo devices - it. just. works.
Being an engineer/sys admin by trade I love to tinker and tweak and rip apart and put back together stuff, but in this case the effort it took to get the Fuze/TP to a usable state [for me] wasn't worth it. I am at the stage of my life where I don't have the time to play (7 mo. old will do that to ya).
I wouldn't kick a free or deeply discounted Fuze/TP out of bed, lol, but as many have said, it's what you want out of a device and I needed my device to work out of the box.
That said, so far so good. About 2 trouble-free weeks with the iP3G.
I still come here daily to keep up on the HTC WinMo happenings to satiate my tinker desire. But the iPhone is here to stay - or until WinMo 7 drops at least.
Ok, where to start? Well from the beginning of my short smartphone experience. My first phone was a Motorola A1000 with UIQ. The phone where not as good from the beginning but after some turns with the ROM cookers it became a pretty descent phone. It had GPS, a great app for mp3 (PowerMP3) and for that time an Opera webbrowser that worked on the most common sites.
Ofcourse the webbrowsing was slow and the GPS took ages to get a fix and the sound from PowerMP3 started to glitch when I had it in the background and did other stuff. But hey, I accepted it because it started to get old.
So, anyway. When the Xperia was annonced I found it as a great replacement. It was a smaler phone, it had full qwety, highres screen, wlan, gps, radio and finally 3.5mm jack. A friend had the first tytn phone (my first contact with XDA) that i thought was a bit slow. But still, it was an old phone and with the specs of the xperia I thought that WM would run smoth as butter.
Now, I have had the phone for 6 mounths and the honymone is over. Ofcourse the ROM cookers here have done an amazing job to speed it up. But still. Sometimes the phone is less responsive than my old UIQ phone. There is still no fully working webbrowser, the GPS does somtimes have problem to get a fix (not as long as 10 minutes though) and loading times eg. for showing pictures, open menues is the same as on my UIQ or worse.
I am getting tired of the chronic statment soon... the next version of Opera, when skyfire is ready, the next version of windows mobile, the next radio or ROM upgrade, the next version of manila etc.
And still, phones with weaker hardware is working smoth as silk with ROMs from the manufacturers like samsung, Apple or OS like Android. Why can't MS make an OS like that? It dosen't have to be "cool" as iPhone. But why not make it run smooth with less loadingtime?
As it is now, I can't lend my phone to a friend if he/she whan't to test it or browse a webpage without having them to wonder why nothing happens if they press this or that because of the loading times. "How could you pay that much for this phone?" And, no, I can't answer that anymore.
Ok, now I have let off some steam. And I havn't eaven mentioned the worthless casing on the phne that have cracked for the second time... ohh, now I have
Peace over and out
I wrote almost the same words today on a Dutch forum. I have my Xperia now for about 7 months. Out of the box it's a piece of sh.t. Thanks to the cooks it's an acceptable phone now, but my next phone will be no WM phone anymore. Thinking of buying the new Iphone when it comes out. Better/faster hardware doesn't say anything when WM is the OS.
Iphone here I come. If you can't beat them join them...
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile. When I walk into work people with iPhones and BB's ask me why my Fuze or my Tilt looked more appealing than others they have seen. Simple answer, "I got no luck in the game of popularity therefore I spent over a year learning of the capabilities and the love what goes into windows mobile, outside of microsoft". Personally, I think they will never understand but when you show them easy written applications like "positions" and pdf reader "hustler" or "playboy" magazine, for some reason they believe you are a porn star, cause its that real...
edit: actually iPhones in Boston are played out so if you have a nice looking Tilt or Fuze it will get you ass. However, you may have to pay for an expensive hotel and some cheap ass beer too go along but that is how i roll. Nobody stops my floss.
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
I could'nt say that my experience with winmo was bad. I had always enjoyed tweaking, ROM flashing, looking and exploring for new and better application software, trying out all kinds of different user interfaces, playing with registry, etc. I had always thought of winmo as the best thing since slice bread - until I tried out iPhone. To be honest, I had always brushed off iPhone as just a toy, as something that I would give up a week after owning it, etc. Had always been annoyed with people arguing that iPhone is better than winmo device.
Then, one day, an XDA-developer forumner whom I respected a lot made a post saying that he had already switched to iPhone and has never looked back. That was when I first took notice, and started to research more seriously about what iPhone could do. I thought all along that I would have to give up all the cherished applications on my Athena if I switch, so I first spent time finding out what applications are available on iPhone. At that time, I could not find any credible solution on GPS navigation and Office document editing. I also thought that I'm too addicted to my Tengo software keyboard to want to give up. In addition, I read a lot of posts saying there are serious 3G reception issues. So, based on that, I decided to buy a Touch HD instead.
I was estatic with Touch HD and made recommendation to a few person who too made the purchase. It was'nt perfect for sure. The response time was inconsistent at best, music playing stutters, album was slow and often causes freeze, camera capture taking too long to save and come back, picture is poor under poor lighting condition, etc. But I was still perfectly happy, perhaps because over the years, I had developed such a high tolerance for imperfection.
The iPhone purchase was probably an impulsive purchase because it was selling cheap. To be honest, the first day when I used it, I did'nt like it too much. Many things I did'nt know how to do. Did'nt like not being able to multitask, copy and paste, no video, no MMS, and the user interface looked set in concrete and unchangeable.
But then, I learned to jailbreak the phone. It was difficult in the begining because I did'nt know of a good forum to get help from, after all, I'm a winmo and XDA person, right? After that, I'm now really happy with iPhone.
- at the system level, my iPhone multitask, I can do global cut and copy, send MMS, do video recording, customise my springboard (desktop) to my heart's content, easily get music/movies without any restriction whatsoever .
-In general, my replacement application programs are far far better than the equivalent that I had on my HD.
- I can find lots of useful applications (don't listen to those who tell you that you only get iBeer and iFart from Applestore) from both the applestore and Cydia store. Many of those programs are simply not available on the winmo platform.
- VOIP calls that I make with my iPhone is far clearer than with my HD. No echo. No breaking up of voice. No need to use headset.
- All my videos play smoothly now. No more synchronization problem between video and voice. No more dropped frame.
- Camera captures really fast, including in poor light. It does'nt have autofocus and flash though, so this is still an area that iPhone should improve on. On the other hand, the camera softwares are excellent. You can change the contrast, exposure, and sharpen the picture after they're taken, and this compensate somewhat for the poor picture.
- I like the way it notifies me of any update to my applications, and they are all free. Even if I had previously installed and deleted an application, it tells me that I had already made the purchase (even the free ones are considered purchased) and would let me download it again free (even if now it is no longer free).
- Love the responsiveness. Even with very tiny area, such as the little link on XDA site that brings me to the first unread post, could be easily activated without zooming it.
- Consistent user interface is another really appealing aspect of it. On my HD, I had programs from Vito Technology, Resco, SPB, and they all look different. Some have full screen and have their own finger friendly keyboard, some still use stylus. Not a serious issue, but it was really good to have consistent UI.
What I still don't like about iPhone?
- I don't like the fact that I cannot change battery in the middle of the day. With my HD, I carry a spare battery because one isn't enough for me.
- We still have no credible GPS software on the iPhone, at least not outside US. In US, G-Map on iPhone looks like a pretty good GPS software that works without internet connection, but outside US, there is'nt any that can operate without internet connection. Even if there is, I am not willing to use anything not as good as TomTom 7, which among other things give me overspeeding, red light and speed camera warnings. I still use my HD to run TomTom, Garmin and Mapking (because TomTom does not have maps in all the countries that I visit).
I had been keeping an eye on Palm Pre and Google Phone. Google phone could be manufactured by any hardware manufacturer so in that aspect it has a better chance of becoming popular amoung the hardware suppliers at least, unlike iPhone which nobody else are allowed to manufacture. However, the applications on both Google Phone and Palm Pre are too limited at the moment. Also, because of the absence of control and openness, I think the user interface on google phone is going to varry greatly from application to application, so you will not have the same consistency as iPhone application. Palm pre's inabiilty to operate as a world phone bugs me, in addition to the fact that it is still the first generation phone, which is bound to have much unresolved issues.
WM7 is of course not to be discounted completely. It is supposed to be revolutionary. Like using the camera to detect your hand gesture (wonder what it is like to operate the device in the dark and impact on battery though. Also wondering how would devices without front camera deal with it.). However, application development would have much to catch up. The biggest obstacle I think is the fact that MS tries to make the OS backward compatible. There are just too many different hardware out there by now. Pity the developers on winmo now. If they develop anything now, it would have to be redone when WM7 is available. I get the feeling that many are developing for iPhone for now, hence the explosion of software availability there.
I hope this thread is a place to share information, not to bash winmo in anyway. So, let's be courteous to each other and refrain from putting down winmo platform.
Paitor said:
Well, iPhone is no option for me. I like the modding that was possible with both my UIQ phone and WM. Android is what I now think will be the smoothest and more loadingtime free OS. I'm sad that it isn't possible to have android on my xperia. To me the xperia actually is the most good looking phone on the market today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can do lots of modding with iPhone too, and much of those modding are not available with WM. You can even make it look like a PC if you so incline. But you must jailbreak it first in order to do it.
redbandana said:
take a break play with the iPhone and crapberry you'll be back within 4 months. Honestly, it took stupid applications like iBeer to make me want to go back to windows mobile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me, the more time I spend with iPhone, the more I grow to like it. It is amazing to find how customizable the phone is. It is also amazing to find that one single button in iPhone could so easily let you switch between active tasks, terminate program, launch most recently used programs, and with the power button do screen capture, do soft reset, etc.
Not all applications are entertainment in nature. You can get serious medical applications, enterprise resource planning type applications (including SAP and Quickbook), office productivity applications (Pocket Informant on iPhone is far more useable than the winmo version), etc.
The only really lacking area is GPS software, but that's likely to change with firmware 3.0 that removes the artificial restriction apple set.
Otherwise, WM applications are falling behind that for iPhone. There are many reasons why this is happening. Some winmo developers have discussed the reasons for this on this very interesting thread here:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ed...s-mobile-apps-falling-behind-iphone-ones.html
jeffla said:
Although I do like my iPhone, I HATE apple. Going from my kaiser to the iPhone was a huge change. Mostly good, but putting up with apples bs is obnoxious. They are so restrictive. I miss the days of rom flashing, changing web browsers, media players, notes applications......just to try something new. With my iPhone, I can only change what apple approves, and that is very little. I am eagerly awaiting the Pre's release. Currently I pay AT&T 135.00 as month for two iPhones with the cheapest plan possible. We have the 1st gen iPhones with 20.00 a month data plans. I have no desire to pay 160.00 a month for the new iPhones when released. Two pre's with sprint will coat us 100.00 with my corporate discount.
I plan on checking out windows mobile again when wm7 is releases but not before then.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
This is an article related to the current thread that makes some interesting reading.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10151228-82.html
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
eaglesteve said:
I too feel that Apple is going overboard in the type of restriction it places. That's why I jailbreak my phone, to free myself from all the restrictions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
jeffla said:
Hey, if I jailbreak, can I drag and drop my music files? I hate having to sync my music files via itunes, or Media Monkey. I just want to drag a few songs over before work and just be done with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you can. You can also name the music file anyway you want rather than having it renamed by ITune. The music file could be copied to your own sub directory.
Paitor said:
Great essay you did there Eaglesteve. I know some things about jailbreak and what comes with that because of a friend that have one. But to me, the hardware limits on iPhone is to big. The important things too me that iPhone lack is, qwerty, MicroSD-slot, changeable battery, radio (I'm lazy sometimes), photo led (great as flashlight) and a good GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Paitor,
One factor that puts iPhone on the negative light is the fact that no hardware vendor other than apple through Foxconn is allowed to make the handset. This is both good and bad. Applications are easier to test and bugs more easily fixed. Also, having just one company controlling it nobody could pass the bug to another company if the graphic accelerator does'nt work (wink wink). You also don't have the risk of undersized hardware specification and slow device. On the other hand you don't get lots of choices in handware specifications such as those you've outlined.
Actually iPhone hardware contains the FM receiver all along, but disabled at the moment.
I believe Tom Tom will soon be available once OS 3.0 is released.
After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,
Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.
jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.
htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC
I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.