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CAN THE SHIFT STILL MAKE A SPLASH IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION?
To a lot of the community it must seem that the highpoint of the HTC Shifts anticipation was the Hugo Ortega review of the device back in August [Additional Video Link]. The community seemed to Match Hugo’s enthusiasm for the device at the time, and understandably; the device has the potential to take the UMPC and pocketPC platform a great leap forward and all, since its first revelation for sub $2000. But since that high note and as more details have trickled out about the Shift the enthusiasm from both communities (UMPC and Pocket PC) seems to have diminished in proportional response [Comments here offer a glimpse to some of the broad criticisms now circulating].
The HTC Shift isn’t the first device to have specification changes or features taken out along the production path. First to go has been the 1.2Ghz Processor, followed by Windows Mobile 6 (at least a full version), next was voice capabilities (its quite possible these were never going to be available but given the cellular functionality of the device one wonders), then went the hope for at least a 1024x600 resolution screen and lastly the most recent revelation is that we can expect only 2hours of Vista battery life [New specs link – thanks to Kaz covering first hand GITEX2007].
Now the above paragraph might make it seem that the HTC shift has been butchered from its original splendour, so lets take a look at these change and its general specs. This isnt a review of the device, I haven’t been blessed to try the device, its just my interpretations of where the Shift is at now as it prepares to ship, combined with my UMPC experience but mainly as a long time Windows Mobile user and HTC enthusiast.
Processor: so we’ve gone from 1.2Ghz Via Chip down to the Intel A110 Stealy 800Mhz. It’s not all bad news, it’s the same processor used by popular UMPCs such as the Samsung Q1 Ultra, and is increasingly be used by other UMPCs such as the Kojinsha and Fujitsu. Most users have reported things run smoothly on these platforms, including Vista so unless you’re planning on using your UMPC as a video encoder one might suspect its going to do the usual run of the mill UMPC stuff just fine with 800Mhz. Despite a slow boot up time (possibly an anomaly, possibly could be corrected with tweaks) the multi-tasking from the Ortega video appeared quite smooth and responsive.
Windows Mobile (WM): When it was originally reported that WM would ship on the device I was confused as to what could possibly be the advantages of such an approach. Samsung had already proven you could build a dialler and phone functionality into the OS so why waste time putting WM on there.
After seeing the video review it made perfect sense. Use WM to do the things you don’t need vista for or that WM can do due to its longer battery life. This seemed to make sense. Why boot up Vista with its limited lifespan when I could get plenty more WiFi, Media playing, Powerpointing, Emailing done right there in Windows Mobile. Leaving Vista for the higher end tasks such as work, proper editing, more in-depth outlook management, data management, and maybe even a game or two?
Unfortunately the latest news from GITEX 2007, and Kaz’s adventures there, seems to point to WM being nothing more than ‘an advanced BIOS with a modem (HSDPA) for push-email support’. I think this is a big mistake as crippling WM in such a way limits its potential to being just a weak sideshow feature to Vista. Whilst being able to access the weather information and get my emails from HSDPA is nice, I believe my vision of WM above would make more sense.
However, if its one thing WM communities have shown though is never say die when it comes to changing our devices to suit. Short of HTC limiting the WM partition or WM RAM, a sense of optimism for a cooked full version of WM might not be out of the question.
Voice Capabilities: HTC seem to have always taken the view that voice capabilities for this device do not exist. It seems to be a foregone conclusion, and whilst any feature is welcome, I question if anyone would truly replace their phone with this device had it the voice capabilities. Despite this its range of connectivity options and HSDPA is a leg above most UMPCs on the market.
The Screen: After Hugo’s review there were mixed interpretations of what native resolutions the device supported. This has been cleared up quite succinctly. The device will ship with 800x480. When questioned about using a lower resolution spec’d screen Middle East Operations Manager for HTC Kevin Chen had this to say:
‘The answer is simple. The screen is only 7" and since power consumption has to be low, HTC decided on the low resolution screen.’ [Source – Kaz’s Interview]
That answer actually makes the device sound sub-par, and whilst higher resolutions are always a nice treat there is something to be said along the lines of screen size. Releasing a device this late in 2007 with such a screen when the standard has clearly moved to 1024 is slightly disappointing but on the whole doesn’t diminish the device too much. As the CEO said it’s a 7” screen, 800x480 isn’t going to look shocking on that size device. People not use to an UMPC with a higher resolution are unlikely to be greatly phased, and (fingers crossed) the interoperated mode which upscales the screen to 1024x600 looked good on Hugos review. There is the distinct possibility that HTC may have got this right where other UMPC manufactures have persistently failed users.
HDD: The device now ships with a 40G drive and a 60G option, quite reasonable for the UMPC, but it has increasingly come under fire for not having SSD or at least the option. Whilst I agree the option would be nice, this is HTCs first foray into this market, especially in such a hybrid manner. I think it is understandable they haven’t opted for the SSD option due to simply not knowing how the device will go and what its profit margin will be in the end. SSD also runs against the prime criteria of this device, which from HTC seems to have been an extremely competitive price point. Whilst the exact price has not been confirmed, the places taking pre-orders are placing their bets on $1400-1600. SSD on average means an instant increase in price of $400-500 which would erode away any price edge HTC have over the competition with this device.
Battery Life: Despite being able to see alternatives or the upside of most of the specs and changes with the Shift I really can’t say I or anyone is impressed with 2 hours. Unless that is 2 hours with everything on and everything running non stop that one is left wonder where our 3hr standard went? Hugo reported 3Hrs in his review, and 3hrs is the least the community has come to expect from an UMPC. I’m not sure how HTC can reconcile this issue unless its 2 hours of maximum usability (ie everything on, everything being used for those whole 120mins). I would suspect it highly likely an XP version could be put on the device by the user (as it will not ship with XP) but whether this would increase the 2 Hrs significantly is unknown.
HTCs website for the shift says: “Why should I compromise?” and that’s an excellent question HTC, why should we compromise our UMPC experience with 2hours of battery life? I suspect you cannot win an UMPC argument armed with 2hours of battery life, and with that in mind I would ask them to answer that question for themselves. If the market has to answer it for HTC on this issue I wouldn’t be expecting a favourable outcome.[/b]
On the whole I think the majority of the Shifts specs are in line with current trends and what we might expect given the shifts criteria and this being HTCs first foray into such a market. But like most users the limited WM6 functionality diminishes my productivity hopes for the device, but I personally hold great hopes for the community to correct this. The battery issue is going to be a wait and see. One would highly suspect after 3 days with the device Hugo got a good idea of the battery life and if its turns out its 2hrs of maximum, full use than perhaps there’s hope, but just two hours in general falls too far short of the UMPC standard. In which case the Shifts splash is likely to be a painful bellyflop.
If this issue was however corrected or turns out to be the maximum usage or just a simple mistake than I see the shift being able to fulfil its role as an UMPC successfully. The device has unanimously been accredited the status of a sleek sexy, solid, well built device. The form factor, the potential of two operating systems and cpus make this a lethal device to the competition. The cellular options even without voice connect the device all the more.
HTC are playing a risky game delivering a device with these specs this late into 2007 where similar spec’d device have been out for some months now. As long as HTC can do something with the Battery life I feel confident the shift will still make a positive splash. Will it revolutionise the industry as first expected? Probably not. But it’s likely to still shake things up, in form factor, its connectivity options combined with the price point. The dual operating systems could also prove to be a big hit with the industry if they can function in a productive manner beyond the “limited version” were hearing about.
I had not been keeping up to date with the shift. If it is correct that there is no voice phone functionality then this device no longer has any potential for me. I was hoping to keep it around (big pocket, bag etc) and just use my bt headset to answer the calls. There is no way i will be carrying two devices on a regular basis, so if the shift can't call - I can't have it I still have hope because HTC have not removed the GSM from the description. Most people would take that to mean phone functionality.
All the other details are of less importance for how I intended to use it.
It seems the Shift is more of an UMPC than any hybrid in its current form. The cellular connections are all still there and the device can even recieve SMS based on the pics weve seen from GITEX however, voice capacities appear to have been removed/restricted.
Given the crippled version of WM included it seems HTC envision this as more of a UMPC than anything to do with a PocketPC which might entail phone functions.
That device was flawed from the beginning, 1) no call support on the windows mobile, 2) UMPC.
"After seeing the video review it made perfect sense. Use WM to do the things you don’t need vista for or that WM can do due to its longer battery life. This seemed to make sense. "
Brain dead, there's no sync between that windows mobile and vista(unless you use exchange which requires an internet connection*), and you'll have to carry a phone with you, so, why use the Shift to do what you can do on your really portable windows mobile phone?
*although broadly available it is a potential show stopper.
Get a 12" convertible tablet and a WM phone [period]
that's exactly what I have right now, but I just hate carrying two devices and even more I hate the time it takes to boot then connect through the phone. I just want to push on and use.
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
that's exactly what I have right now, but I just hate carrying two devices and even more I hate the time it takes to boot then connect through the phone. I just want to push on and use.
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Click to collapse
Well, If you see Hugo's video you know you'll take even more time to be up and ready with the Shift, even when resuming from hibernation like showed on the video, that thing isn't exactly an instant-on experience.
With a vista TPC you can resume from hibernation and connect through your WM device(in case you don't use a usb modem) much faster.
I also have that configuration I mentioned, tho it isn't a 12"(14"er), usb HSDPA modem - frees the WM device to do other things like moving away from the TPC w'out cutting its connection to the interwebs, and it also saves the battery of the WM device - and Trinity.
"I just hate carrying two devices"
It is really just the difference between the Shift's 7" and your 12" tablet since the WM device's weight and size is really irrelevant IMO.
The reason I say it makes sense to utilise the WM portion is because we don't all carry around 7" devices loaded with WM. Now the Advantage was fun to browse the web on and do everything else I listed, but the advantage is limited to being a WM device. The Shift has Vista to pick up where WM limitations kick in, or vice versa WM to kick in where UMPC battery life limits Vista.
I cannot help but feel people are expecting this device to be a notebook or tablet pc when its clearly an UMPC.
Apoc you list being an UMPC as its second flaw, its not a flaw its simply a fact of what the device is. Obviously if you want a bigger screen and a bigger device you'll carry around a tablet. However, there are those of us who want a small alternative to the tablet and this is it.
"Apoc you list being an UMPC as its second flaw, its not a flaw its simply a fact of what the device is."
Yeah, you're right.
resume/hibernate is not what I want. All my stuff is on truecrypt volumes and resuming breaks it. I would need to dismount each volume then mount it again after resume. I wanted a device that is always on but not necessarily doing anything. The way ppc wakes up when you push the on button or when a call comes in.
Anyway, the dream is over. I think the next best option is to find a small 3g card that will fit in my tablet with not much overhang. Telstra sell one but it is not on the correct band for my three account. Three's dongle looks like a mouse hanging out on its wire - not good.
You are right about the weight and size. What matters is the time. I use the devices at random times for short periods (20 minutes or less), If I have to spend 5 minutes getting ready then I could not be bothered to begin.
Another solution would be if the wm device could act as a modem even when off, the modem is not part of the windows hardware any way so it should be able to work. Unfortunately it does not. When I push the off button on the ppc my connection will last for about 30 seconds then disappears.
I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?
Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.
My top 3 reasons not to get an iPhone:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
2.no copy and paste (very annoying as I need this for my day to day work)
3.no physical keyboard (Just cant get used to using on-screen keyboards. I like tactile feel of keyboards too much.)
I can list other reasons as to why but these are the main hurdles Apple will have to get over before I would ever consider one.
jblakk said:
Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but I've never send an MMS anyway, never thought lack of copy and paste was a HUGE deal, not being able shoot video does really suck, and not being able to listen to audio through bluetooth sounds sucky but I've never done it before anyway. Again, what really sucks is that there's no WM app store. Seriously. It's bugging me so much. And as I said, I expect WM7 will have one... but still... that's a year away and I'm impatient...
i have personally owned the new 3g....hated it, let me begin:
battery life sucks:
Why own a 3G iPhone if you have to turn 3G off in order to get a full day out of the battery. And if I even begain to turn the back light up a little then there goes the battery as well. I had one day that I charged teh phone 3 times (full times) to get through the day
you have to pay for apps:
I know you do with a lot of phones, but damn its like if you have an app market there needs to be more free. And almost all of the free one sucks. 1.99 here, 2.99 there add sup QUICK
price of the plan:
they rape everyone with the "iPhone" plan...whatever. I dont even need to say more.
Voicemail get erased:
when you get the "iphone plan" it erases your voicemail and you need to start it all up again. even if you have saved voicemails in it, BYE BYE....and they will not tell you this either
cannot download:
you cannot download ANYTHING on it. I had someone send me a file that I wanted to download onto my phone and run on a school computer that did not have internet hooked up to it. all it was was a .doc file....nope cannot do that
camera:
SUCKS. still in the 1999 era of "slightly better that vga"
acessories are $$$:
all the no name brand stuff is out there is cheap, and breaks easily. but then again a good incase costs almost $50...and then a screen protector is $15 for 2.
cannot copy and paste:
need i say more?
I can go on...
Get a G1, Android Market is sick, has plenty of applications now and it will grow very quickly.
Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.
GazzaK said:
Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.
Click to expand...
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Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/
Black93300ZX said:
Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/
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Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK
GazzaK said:
Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK
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Click to collapse
So jailbreak it and do it for free. I don't like the iPhone very much, but there are ways around most of its lack of features. Jailbreaking can you get MMS, video recording, tethering...
copy and paste...so on and so forth we hear it all with iphone not up to WM...but iphone runs very smooth video, games, music...its basically an easy everyday use...if u looking for a more advance normal phone, iphone is the way to go...but WM phone like myself i used it for alot more than making calls, theres things WM wish it can do like iphone and like wise...its just how u use it everyday...i have the itouch and a kaiser...itouch basically fun to watch movies and play games and music...but i can do that with WM phone as well...its just iphone u can get to those thing alot faster with a bunch of shortcut than WM phone, yea i can create short cut on WM as well but with iphone/itouch its just seem more suited for entertainment...i connect my WM to everything though from laptop to cars and share file with basically every device but iphone...pros and cons to everything...theres a reason why every new phone that comes out claim they are the iphone killer...70 percent of people that owns WM phones dont even know how to use the damn thing...but the other 30 percent knows wsup. sounds like u already know whats each is capable of so you gonna have to make this decision on ur own
Lol, those that say iPhone is a lot faster should turn off multitasking in WM. I just don't want to hear them guys complain that they can't multitask any more as I don't hear them complain about the lack of multitasking in the iPhone.
Another thing. For those that want an app store, they should search for the Gecko Project on this forum.
Let me tell you why you should get an iPhone and why you shouldn't. If all you do is basic browsing and listen to music on your phone you should get an iPhone. The browsing experience is still, hands down, the best experience...when it works. I get lots of crashes because it doesn't handle flash at all and mishandles java. But it only happens when I'm viewing a memory intensive or java based web page.
I cannot handle the iPhone anymore and will replace it with the Fuze when it releases for one main reason. No multi-tasking and no turn-by-turn. Despite the problems with WM, which they have many, everything "works" when I want it to. I don't have to worry about Opera mini or skyfire crashing because it can't handle basic flash. If a website doesn't completely work on Mini it just doesn't load properly, it doesn't take you 5 minutes to load just to crash to desktop.
The turn-by-turn is an interesting one but let me explain why it's such a big deal. TomTom has had iPhone software ready for months but can't release it because Apple denies anything from entering the app store that is in "competition" with the base iPhone software. That's why Opera isn't developing mini for the iPhone anymore. Apple is so concentrated on blocking people that it breeds an air of exclusivity, which Apple uses as a marketing tool. While Windows isn't exactly a saint in this category at least the users have fully unlocked phones to be used for whatever you want. And Microsoft will never try to stop basic programs (like TomTom) from creating software for their devices.
What Apple has missed is that the more good software that is available, regardless of what it competes against, the more likely people will buy their product.
Additional problems with the iPhone include:
-no copy/paste
-VERY bad battery life, and I've used lots of 3g phones to compare
-No way to completely turn off ALL sounds for apps etc
-have to jailbreak to tether or do any program worth mentioning
-have to use iTunes. I freaking hate iTunes!
-no file browser (unless you jailbreak)
-have to jailbreak to even get access to your file system
-no flash support....period
Now, to be fair I will post what I like about the iPhone:
-music player is VASTLY superior
-sound quality is VASTLY superior
-basic browsing is smooth and truly better
-3.5" screen is very nice
-slim
-finding the software available is easy (see above for negative!)
-3.5mm headphone jack (some WM devices have, not most HTC)
All-in-all, if you are a basic phone user (which most people that spend time on the site aren't) the iPhone is phenomenal. If you like to do anything with your phone beyond what comes standard, avoid it like the plague. Even with jailbroken your options are still pretty much limited.
I suggest getting a windows mobile phone and use it until Android is ported. With Haret you can run to operating systems until you decide which you like better.
I was in the same boat for about the last month and was heavily thinking I'd be buying an iPhone in December when my upgrade is available. I even was playing with a friends and had myself convinced.
Luckily I came to my senses and have decided to get the Fuze when I can. Granted, the touch screen on the iphone is more sensitive...but I've tried using multiple good onscreen touch keyboards on the tilt and the second you get past a few words and want to type quickly you'll be wishing you had a keyboard.
Also, as another user mentioned the app store can add up and there is a reason most apps are free...because they aren't great. For every 1 good app there are a zillion useless novelty apps that are fun for a few minutes but nothing more.
I used to not fall for the sealed battery excuse until recently my 6 month old ipod nano proved to me exactly why I should care. I am not one of the people that carries multiple batteries and needs to switch during the day...but...my ipod nano when you take it off the charger is immediately down 2 pixel width's of battery so it's not even 100% after a full charge. Now what happens when that happens to your phone...you schedule a week of vacation so you can ship it off and not worry about work or actually using it
iPhone is a toy. I had it for 2 months, then gave it to my wife and went back to the tilt. iPhone is a fun device but it is not functional enough.
TaurenSnake said:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does have multitasking. what it does not have is a task manager.
why TP and not iphone?
- QWERTY
- WM si more mature, more apps, more tweakable
- copy/paste
- more RAM
- higher res
- HSPDA
- BT is not limited to A2DP
- etc
However iphone has it's own pluses, such as: faster CPU, better GPU AFAIK, dynamic UI, etc
Take a look at the HTC Touch HD (youtube it). Now that is waaaaay better than the iPhone.
If you want a keyboard and a smaller phone (width & height) like me, can't beat the Touch Pro.
johndango said:
I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, the top reason is that it's not on Sprint my preferred carrier.
And then no real GPS app. I can't live without TomTom on my TP, no way, especially now that i've been gifted a car. Been using TomTom on my PDA phones since version 5.
My biggest peeve is the chokehold Apple has on it in terms of 3rd party customization. To me it's stifling. An app only gets in only if they sanction it. So an app like WMWifirouter would never make it into the app store then.
They rejected an app called Podcaster that allowed you to download audio/video podcasts over the air, and the reason given was because it competed with and duplicated the podcast features of iTunes. But it's been now revealed that the real reason is because they are putting in over the air podcast downloads (albeit limited to 10MB or less) in the upcoming 2.2 firmware and do not want any competition.
Read here http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/06/apple-adds-ota-podcast-downloads-to-iphone-firmware-2-2-continu/ .
Just imagine if you couldn't run any other browser but Pocket I.E (no Opera Mobile/mini, Skyfire, Netfront), or any other media player but Windows media player (no pTunes/CorePlayer/Tcpmp), all because they duplicate an already existing functionality in Windows Mobile.
For me, those are too important to give up. Think about it.
If you don't mind the size, maybe you should get a Touch HD, because it has bigger screen, and therefore slightly better browsing experience.
iPhone's resolution is too low for decent browsing IMO.
I am in confusion in buying mobile phone between HTC HD2 and iPhone.
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone. As users will be the best person to suggest which one will be better to use in performance, user-friendliness and configuration wise.
com'on dude this isn't an issue of device more an issue of what operating system com'on iphone os in my opinion is second best mobile operating system after android i think personnaly it goes for me anyway 1. android 2. iphone joint 3rd winmo and blackberry and i can say all this because i have owned a device that runs every one of these operating system, but thats just for me if you want really customisable android and winmo are good if you want amazing communication get a blackberry, and if you want stupid amounts of apps get android or iphone.
michealjohn said:
I have googled a lot and got many sites on its comparison. But unable to conclude which one to buy, since one site all it's praise for HTC and other for iPhone.
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Click to collapse
On this site it's all praise for HTC, so I doubt this will help you much either.
My recommendation: people who are sure they want an HD2 should buy an HD2. People who are not sure which they want should get an iPhone.
Or alternatively, put it this way: if you simply want a phone that works, get an iPhone. If you're the sort of person who enjoys spending several weeks researching tweaks, fixes, enhancements and customisations, and you are willing to accept the fact that the phone won't work terribly well while you're doing that, get an HD2.
I second that emotion...
ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.
un1ucky said:
ide say hd2 since im a apple hater.
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Click to collapse
hahaha
+1
HD2 clearly has the SIGNIFICANTLY better hardware.
Nonetheless, honestly, its either you settle for already out of date with any WM6.5 phone or play the waiting game... Windows Phone Series 7 was just announced, but its not going to be available until the holidays... that's 10 months from now. So if you get an HD2, unless there are WM7 ROM leaks (which are unlikely given the hush environment thus far and the fact that the ZuneHD can't be yet be cracked), your stuck with WM6.5. Otherwise, iPhone 3GS, Palm Pre, Nexus One, Xperia X10 are all good choices as of those will definitely get all OS updates likely for the next few years.
Gor for the HD2 and have the full suppopert of XDA!
You have just entered a Church and asked the people which religion is better: Christianity or Buddhism?
The hardware of the HD2 is better, hands down. However, the software is quite different. I think none of the operating systems, Windows Mobile or iPhone OS, is better or worse, but they are very different and have very different strenghts and weaknesses.
I can give you some thoughts that may help you decide:
The iPhone is very easy to use, fluid and most of the time, 'just works'. However, this comes at a price: It is also very limited, in order to achieve its ease of use.
As long as you don't reach the limits, you're fine.
But when you reach the limits (e.g. you want to have information on the home screen, you want to multitask, send something via Bluetooth, use it as USB storage, customise ringtones, create playlists without iTunes and so on...) then things get complicated on the iPhone. You either can't do something at all, or you need to hack/jailbreak it or find workarounds for the shortcomings.
With Windows Mobile, you get everything out of the box. It can do pretty much everything and has all the basic and advanced features that the iPhone lacks.
However, just like the iPhone's ease of use, Windows Mobile's feature-richness comes at a price as well: It definitely is more complicated and doesn't always work instantly, if you want to install/change something.
Sense tries to make the basic things as easy to use as on the iPhone, and I have to say it does that quite well. But it's still not THAT easy.
On the other hand, if you want to go beyond the limits that Apple set on the iPhone, things often get MUCH more complicated than they are on Windows Mobile.
Conclusion:
If you don't reach the limits of your iPhone, i.e. if you're not missing anything that the iPhone can't do, then it will probably the better device for you, because then it's more easy to use and 'just works' for you.
If, however, you miss a bunch of features and you try to work around them on the iPhone (e.g. by jailbreaking it), then a Windows Mobile device, particulary the HTC HD2, is probably the better choice, because though not everything is as easy, you get everything out of the box. And you also get the better hardware.
The HTC HD2 also has a special place among the Windows Phones. Sense/TouchFlo has evolved over time and now the basic things (i.e. everything that the iPhone can do) are almost as easy on the HD2.
There are still exceptions, like installing software, but it has come so close that I personally think that the HD2 is the better choice for almost everyone, except for those who really never reach the limits of the iPhone.
Because, for giving up a bit of ease of use, you get tons of additional features, as well as the better hardware:
- 4.3" screen, much better camera, faster processor, more RAM...
- multitasking
- maximum customizability
- no iTunes required, you can connect it as storage device
- file explorer
- better notifications concept
- more professional, customizable home screen
- Bluetooth file transfers
- good Emulators like Morphgear
- and much more
Whether this is enough to make you accept the loss of ease of use compared to the iPhone is your choice.
Previously, the gap in ease of use has been much greater, that means you had to sacrifice a lot more in order to get all the features of Windows Mobile, but with the HD2 HTC has come so close that I think it's really the better choice for lots of people now.
However, everyone still has to decide for him/herself. I hope I could help.
my brother has the same question these days:
I recommend the HD2 for him. (or the Touch Pro 2 with QWERTY-Keyboard and a newer and better cooked ROM)
Why?
Because, his main usage is looking movies in the train, surfing the web, sometimes navigation and maybe sometimes a game.
-Usability is now thanks HTC Sense GUI never more a "problem". (almost equal for both mobiles, besides a poweruser)
-The sceen is very very huge, so he can type SMS, Texts, etc. very well with his big fingers, I'll install Touchpal or/and Tengo Thumb and/or Swype as additional keyboards. (one point for the HD2)
- The movies looks on this huge screen better than on Iphone (Point for the HD2)
- Same for the Navigation Software.
- Surfing the Web is with Opera almost the same, than with Iphones Safari. (and I'll install additional Skyfire, etc.) but on this high Resolution on the HD2 is the whole website without horizontal scrolling more common
- The HD2 is cheaper as the Iphone.
- I can support him, for example with a newer, faster, better ROM from the xda-devs, or support him to install another GUI, for example Schaps touchexperience, SPB Mobileshell, rlToday, Battery++, IFonez, etc. etc. etc. etc.
- He is not so interested in tons of apps. I give him years ago a HTC Magician / MDA Compact, with 100 Games (incl. Gameboy Color/Adv. Games for an emulator, and 200 programs/apps... ) but he realy used only 1% of them.
is it that hard to give us a stable OS? a fast cpu and ram and more ram? good touch screen (i like the way the iphone screen worked). an accelerometer w/ g-sensor (that is unlocked to apps (again iphone got this right, whats wrong lg?? come on!!) wifi, gps, a normal usb (mini or micro), & at least 1gig internal mem and a micro st slot, and let me multitask all of my apps at the same time, i dont want to quit a game so i can look up something on the internet or take a call, that why we have task managers, to manage tasks.
and make it affordable!!
and don't limit the apps like apple (thank god for cydia)
and come on at&t quit filling up the memory with things i will never use, let me do that.
oh yeah, and dont forget to allow me to view flash web pages, and not just youtube. i use wixi.com, but the mobile version sucks. and Orb Live. i want to access all of my media form home for free (w/data plan)
sorry about the rant, but maybe with a lot of luck someone with some pull will stumble across this and will create a great phone.
by the way windows sucks, sorry to say it but anyone who expected windows to make a good mobile OS must have been high, when is the last time windows got it right?? never they have been playing catch up to apple forever. They should call there next os "Windows Crash" and "WMCrash" because thats all my computer and phone do is "crash"
would it be against copyright laws to take an iphone 3gs setup, add a full QWERTY keyboard (slide out or flip) change the OS to Android, slightly change the look and button layout and market it as a new phone?
Make us a great phone and put it on At&t!!
jw_mahoney81 said:
is it that hard to give us a stable OS? a fast cpu and ram and more ram? good touch screen (i like the way the iphone screen worked). an accelerometer w/ g-sensor (that is unlocked to apps (again iphone got this right, whats wrong lg?? come on!!) wifi, gps, a normal usb (mini or micro), & at least 1gig internal mem and a micro st slot, and let me multitask all of my apps at the same time, i dont want to quit a game so i can look up something on the internet or take a call, that why we have task managers, to manage tasks.
and make it affordable!!
and don't limit the apps like apple (thank god for cydia)
and come on at&t quit filling up the memory with things i will never use, let me do that.
oh yeah, and dont forget to allow me to view flash web pages, and not just youtube. i use wixi.com, but the mobile version sucks. and Orb Live. i want to access all of my media form home for free (w/data plan)
sorry about the rant, but maybe with a lot of luck someone with some pull will stumble across this and will create a great phone.
by the way windows sucks, sorry to say it but anyone who expected windows to make a good mobile OS must have been high, when is the last time windows got it right?? never they have been playing catch up to apple forever. They should call there next os "Windows Crash" and "WMCrash" because thats all my computer and phone do is "crash"
would it be against copyright laws to take an iphone 3gs setup, add a full QWERTY keyboard (slide out or flip) change the OS to Android, slightly change the look and button layout and market it as a new phone?
Make us a great phone and put it on At&t!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not put your questions to htc direct?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=683957
Who is we ? " We " all need different things from our phone. And " we " all don't want to pay $1000 for a phone with super everything.
" ...and make it affordable ?......" That is like saying ..." hey car companies, why can't you make a car that goes 200 mph, runs on electricity, gets a thousand hours per charge, made from all titanium , works totally on voice commands , oh yeah and it has to be affordable, about 15K. "
Why doesn't HTC make a phone like that ? It would be obnoxiously expensive to put all that technology into one phone, unless they put a super new battery in it, the current batteries will never run all those features. And no one wants to pay for what it would cost to sell a phone like that.
Like cars, you pick out the features you want, find a phone that has most of those features at a price you can afford, and then spend the next year whining about all the things your phone can't do.
ATT will never get anything good in fear it would compete with the iPhone. To make a phone with all those features, would cost a fortune and some stuff isn't for everyone. That's why we have "affordable" smartphones like the Smart, Wildfire, Tattoo, etc and more extravagant phones like the HD2, Nexus, Desire, etc.
because if this does happen, companies can't make more cell phones sell because the one cellphone has everything YOU need.... and everyone's needs are different, like how I don't like the HTC HD2's large screen...
denco7: I would never pay $1000 for a phone. I wont even pay $150 for a phone with a 2 year contract. even if it had every thing. yes i understand that a lot of work goes in to making these phone but its not like the people making the phone get the big bucks. they get there regular pay check. and with technology today parts are cheap. like to replace the screen on my old iphone it cost me $20 on ebay, so that means it probable cost less than $5 to make if not less. it probable cost less than $25 in parts to make an iphone, plus the $8 per hour it cost to employ someone to watch the computer do all of the work.
and i expect a smart phone to do everything i want it to do hardware wise, now i understand that i might have to buy apps to use all the fetchers, but i dont want to be limited especially if the phone has the hardware but its locked so that you cant use it for other functions. like the lg expo. why put a g-sensor in a phone and not allow it to be used to the fullest extent? all its good for is rotating the screen, now thats dumb.
why should i have to pick a lesser phone and choose what options are more impotent than others when picking a phone?? just give them all to me and if i dont want to use them then i dont use them.
I used every feather on my iphone 3g. I use the sh!t out of my phones, and i expect them to run fast. the biggest thing i didnt like about the stock os on the iphone was it didnt multi-task but i found a fix to that (backgrounder & multifl0w)
most of the problems with phones is that they limit the hardware with the OS. and thats just dumb.
I find it funny how everyone says this would be too "expensive." Everything OP named is what "smartphones" SHOULD be at right now.
1gb ram is MAYBE 20 dollars... for buyers! (I agree, cell phone RAM would probably be more expensive.)
1gb internal storage? Again, they have cheap mp3 players the size of a nickel with this for 5 dollars. That would be NOTHING.
iPhone (well, i use iPod touch) does have an actually nice touchscreen - again which is actually already on the market. However, I'll limit Apple to my iPod touch. iPhone isn't touching ANY Android phone. =]
A hardware keyboard should be a "duh." I have a myTouch, and love it. However, I feel buyers remorse often because I just didn't get a keyboard. However, it doesn't add 400 dollars just for a hard keyboard.
Flash is on its way - which has nothing to do with the hardware.
I have to say, OP is right. Smartphones are really lacking what they're actually capable of. And, with a service plan, price might be like 300 dollars (if the manufacturer wasn't money hungry). I'd pay 300 dollars for a phone like that with a service plan. I'd pay 800 to a grand for one with no service plan. Why? Have any of you looked at the price of that p.o.s. iPad? I could go buy a laptop 2x better than the iPad WITH TOUCHSCREEN for the amount of a 64 gb (which is NOTHING) iPad. Probably 5 times better for one without touchscreen.
Of course, this is just my opinion. Also, I have to admit, they are advancing faster and faster. Even with the possibility that they could exist now... I see them actually existing VERY soon.
Edit: As PurpleLlamaLover said, though, I dount AT&T will ever get a phone better than the iPhone because A. It's not like it would even be noticed and B. What he said, they don't want to compete with it. Especially if its cheaper. Which it probably would be.
Actual cost of an iPhone
http://www.isuppli.com/News/Pages/i...ufacturing-Cost-iSuppli-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
Actual cost of Steve Jobs' G5........$45 to $70 million
http://www.gulfstream.com/products/g550/
while there is room for growth on the smartphones, there are great things to be said about alot of the same phones. every user has different needs and wants and i would find it difficult to try and predict what would satisfy every consumer. the list of desirables outlined by jw_mahoney81 pretty much describe my tp2 and hd2. i still dont understand why windows devices crash. i have however heard that technology is only as good as the user.
LOL you did not just spell features like teachers with an f!
Anyway, implausible.
So, feel free to flame, but I was writing something in another thread about tablets and the following came to mind:
Are tablets worth what we pay for them? Or are they just a marketing 're-deploy'? Allow me to expound:
Literally just before tablets careened onto the current computer scene(I know windows failed to promote tablets years back), there existed Netbooks. What it seems to me is that Netbooks are what the Industry thought we would want, A very portable yet still completely functional computer. As if even the small laptops weren't small enough...anyway. What I think happened is these things weren't cool enough. Maybe not powerful enough either, but that point should be moot because modern hardware can support this, as proven by current tablets.
I bought a Netbook and loved it, BUT I don't do a lot of gaming, just some simple web browsing, skyping, some skript kiddie type hacking. Plus for me the ultra small design was essential due to the nature of my work/constant traveling blah blah. This thing played movies, had the latest support of my favorite *nixes and performed pretty well except for battery life(typically a measly 3-4 hours) and of course gaming. Then came tablets; they look cooler, offer touch screen capabilities which sometimes feel as cumbersome as alt-tabbing, and have much much better battery and gaming performance, with the added benefit of blending nicely with the current "app store eco-structure".
Ahh, finally my point!!!:
A trend I see rising with tablets is the ability to add a keyboard and mouse....really? So what, then you have a laptop again? Or just the ability to go from cool-tech-but-not-too-nerdy tablet guy, to an fully functional device, and back again? I don't get it, other than the obvious shift to more clever marketing and selling us yet another device. On top of that I can use a USB 2.0 anything on my netbook, or be stuck with a proprietary connecter as with the Transform or iPad. Why would we choose this other than to look cool or because it's being shoved down our throats? What I see is a device (tablet) that is less fuctional, less productive, and more money compared to the more practical, just as portable netbook. I just miss the support of my Netbook, which I only paid $200 for....
Any thoughts...like maybe I'm a crazy hippy that needs to go live in a commune?
my points why my a500 is better use then a netbook,.
portability - no one can say its not easier to carry a slim tablet with a integrated keyboard
functionality - being able to do such things as stand in the street looking through the tab with the camera and seeing augmented reality deal, offer, new location without having to open startup, login and hold a massive block of hardware to do the same, and also a whole plethora of other uses such as barcode scanning, video making ,etc etc imaging scanning barcodes to find cheaper prices with a netbook,,,.,..one handed possible? probably not
battery life, my tablet can go 2days on a single charge with medium usage, a netbook would last a few hours,
i can do pretty much anything on my a500 i can do on my laptop.
i can access and use my laptop with screen and sound from anywhere else in the world.....from my a500 tablet (phonemypc)
also most usb devices connect to my a500 i think the only thing my lappy has that my tablet doesnt is a dvd drive, but the one in my lappy is dusty as hell as i download all my movies and move them between devices to play in diff' areas anyway. and then again my laptop has no gps. and only a front camera
if my laptop im writting this message with was a tablet it would probably be a crap one lol
no gps,no touchscreen, no back camera, front camera is weak no accelerometer no hdmi port lol etc etc
Major edit:
I see your point and don't want to convolute my thoughts too much. I just think a lot of the things you mentioned could be implemented, if the money was there.
You have pointed out that I have kind of answered my own questions...
Why tablets, because the phone market was so successfull and it allows for a lot of control on the developers end of the OS, so it's easier to implement the apps, market place as apposed to a traditional PC software sales setup.
r0zj0k3r said:
I think that depends on what you want to do. with my netbook, I literally could do everything I could on my computer because they were the same OS!!! That means, compiling software, video/audio editing, skype with group video , a similar app store could be integrated into a netbook style os (see ubuntu store). The industry just doesn't want to push it, and because it was easier to shift from phones to what amount to "really big phones"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
warus1 said:
Do you think that the new windows OS will allow you to switch between a Tablet and your Netbook without loose of functionality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it would be a great way for windows to break away from the pack, but I don't think they want to do that now. They seem to be in the same mode as everyone else, lets follow the market instead of trying really new things.