Related
Hi All,
New guy here, and I was thinking about putting Android 1.5 on the Sprint TP2, rather than WM 6.5. (Again, new here, so I'm assuming that, once this HSPL is released for the CMDA, it could work equally well for WM or Android.)
I'm wondering if anyone has tried Android on the TP2 at all and, if so, your thoughts and opinions on this unusual pursuit?
Thanks in advance!
Sorry: CDMA
Not CMDA. I'm a little out of league here.
Sprint is CDMA and it is possible for that to happen. However, you would need an experienced cooker and most guys here are windows mobile guys.
Android is just now starting to fully work on the vogue and has been in the works for quiet some time. The original Touch Pro is still unable to run it. IF the TP2 will see androind, it will be a long time before that happens. Why not wait for the Hero if you really want it?
To be honest, it's because I adore the full qwerty keyboard. I have a really difficult time on touch-screen keys. Additionally, engadget's review of Hero rated its hardware to be a little underpowered for Android. I'm simply sold on the Rhodium.
Your right on it being underpowered. The problem is, porting it to WinMo is hard since they have 2 completely different kernals.
shawnwaugh said:
To be honest, it's because I adore the full qwerty keyboard. I have a really difficult time on touch-screen keys. Additionally, engadget's review of Hero rated its hardware to be a little underpowered for Android. I'm simply sold on the Rhodium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same reason I want the TP2. Never had WinMo device but that keyboard is the best I've seen on any Smartphone. I'd recommend putting a Sense UI theme on it, that's what I plan to do. Or PointSense Suite.
shawnwaugh said:
To be honest, it's because I adore the full qwerty keyboard. I have a really difficult time on touch-screen keys. Additionally, engadget's review of Hero rated its hardware to be a little underpowered for Android. I'm simply sold on the Rhodium.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A new firmware version has reportedly solve most of the issues with sluggishness. More than likely, the sprint version will have this at launch. It should be nice and snapy. The only things keeping me from waiting for this over getting the TP2 are the lack of a keyboard, the screen size/resolution, and the fact that it might not support SERO. It's okay though because I haven't bought it yet and I'll still be in my 30 day time window if I want to return the TP2 and get a Hero.
I'm really wanting Android, but it just hasn't gotten to the specs I want yet. However, I have to say that the Sense UI on it is about the most amazing thing I've ever seen on a phone. I know they say it's coming to WiMo, but I'm just not confident it will be that fast or as good as the android version.
A lot of phones really dont get optimized right away. Its kinda sad cause it brings the value down. Like the Hero is a great phone, but I geuss you need a ROM update for it to be optimized better.
The TP2 is actually extremely optimized right out the box since it has the same specs as the original, but it is a lot faster.
Poke_N_PDA said:
the fact that it might not support SERO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been told by several Sprint reps that Everything Plus (the new SERO and the name I was told my SERO plan already has) can be used on the TP2 and that the price will remain the same for me since I'm grandfathered at that price. We'll see what happens when I get it tomorrow and try to activate it with my current plan.
I have android running on my vogue, with is probably the most advanced port currently. We still do not have functional bluetooth, GPS does not have all functionality, and a small number of us (seems to be the cdma folks) have problems with intermittently not having SMS and phone calls show up. It is a great port, but still not ready for heavy everyday use if your phone has to be 100% reliable; many people do use it as there primary OS.
Just trying to say that even on the vogue we are not "there" yet, it is likely very possible on the TP2, but will take modification of the kernel and other files to adapt to your hardware, and won't be perfect.
How about the latest 1.6 donut on TP2? 1.6 supports the display resolution!
Link:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/android-16-sdk-is-here.html
Sjuust said:
How about the latest 1.6 donut on TP2? 1.6 supports the display resolution!
Link:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/09/android-16-sdk-is-here.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's a lot more than just resolution. dip into the multiple vogue android threads if you are compelled.
Man, I bet getting the memory map would help out the port a lot. Wish HTC would release that.
techSage said:
I've been told by several Sprint reps that Everything Plus (the new SERO and the name I was told my SERO plan already has) can be used on the TP2 and that the price will remain the same for me since I'm grandfathered at that price. We'll see what happens when I get it tomorrow and try to activate it with my current plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you talking about the $30 500 minute plan or the newer ESRP that is like $10 bucks cheaper than the normal plans? Either way, I know that the TP2 will work on it.
Donut!!
Supports CDMA and the higher resolutions... Please Devs work on this! I will pay money to have it! This will be the perfect combo of phone and OS. I hope this happens.
The biggest issue here is the bootloader. No one, that I am aware of, has modified a bootloader to allow the direct booting of Linux. Also, writing to the flash memory if I remember correctly was the other issue, but please do correct me if I am wrong on this aspect.
Poke_N_PDA said:
A new firmware version has reportedly solve most of the issues with sluggishness. More than likely, the sprint version will have this at launch. It should be nice and snapy. The only things keeping me from waiting for this over getting the TP2 are the lack of a keyboard, the screen size/resolution, and the fact that it might not support SERO. It's okay though because I haven't bought it yet and I'll still be in my 30 day time window if I want to return the TP2 and get a Hero.
I'm really wanting Android, but it just hasn't gotten to the specs I want yet. However, I have to say that the Sense UI on it is about the most amazing thing I've ever seen on a phone. I know they say it's coming to WiMo, but I'm just not confident it will be that fast or as good as the android version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree COMPLETELY. Having spent some time with an iPhone, I have to say that onscreen keyboards, even in landscape mode, still suck.
Another thing I'd worry about with the Hero... not being able to install programs to a microSD card. I know that is an Android issue, not a Hero issue... if they could fix that, I might be able to get over the low resolution and lack of keyboard.
Where are they talking about putting Sense UI on Winmo 6.5?
tduck said:
I agree COMPLETELY. Having spent some time with an iPhone, I have to say that onscreen keyboards, even in landscape mode, still suck.
Another thing I'd worry about with the Hero... not being able to install programs to a microSD card. I know that is an Android issue, not a Hero issue... if they could fix that, I might be able to get over the low resolution and lack of keyboard.
Where are they talking about putting Sense UI on Winmo 6.5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC said that Sense is on its way to WinMo via TF3d. Nothing new really. If you see the TF3d 2.5/2.6 setups, they resemble it a lot. Obviously, there are things that can't be the same (the way widgets and icons on the "desktop" appear, etc) due to OS limitations, but the core technology is being put into WinMo.
Installing programs to SD card is coming in 1.6. So no worries there.
I totally wish the Touch Pro 2 could run Android. My girlfriend has the HTC g1 and I love the application market. It's really awesome.
The keyboard is the major awesome feature about this phone. I used to have an Instink which is now EXTINCT and I could not deal with the crappy on-screen keyboard. I actually broke it once because I hated it so much. I plan on shooting this one Record it in full glory and post it on youtube for other poor Instinct users.
I would pay for an Android conversion. Totally.
I'm currently a Verizon Wireless Customer. I have my NE2 and can get the TP2 for $50 or the Incredible for $170. I'm looking for recommendations. I'm coming from the Droid Eris which was given to me as a gift. I loved android with Sense UI. I know that the TP2 has WM 6.1 or 6.5 but can boot android 2.1 with Sense UI now as well. with limitations. I like that the TP2 is highly customizable with various different roms to choose from. Also, Having a hardware keyboard would be nice to use again. I've only heard perfect things about the TP2's keyboard... The incredible has clearly newer technology with Android 2.1 with Sense UI fully working. I'm sure the phone will eventually be rooted and henceforth also very customizable. I know the specs of both phones. Based on everything including the difference in price, what are your recommendations?
leebsammy said:
I'm currently a Verizon Wireless Customer. I have my NE2 and can get the TP2 for $50 or the Incredible for $170. I'm looking for recommendations. I'm coming from the Droid Eris which was given to me as a gift. I loved android with Sense UI. I know that the TP2 has WM 6.1 or 6.5 but can boot android 2.1 with Sense UI now as well. with limitations. I like that the TP2 is highly customizable with various different roms to choose from. Also, Having a hardware keyboard would be nice to use again. I've only heard perfect things about the TP2's keyboard... The incredible has clearly newer technology with Android 2.1 with Sense UI fully working. I'm sure the phone will eventually be rooted and henceforth also very customizable. I know the specs of both phones. Based on everything including the difference in price, what are your recommendations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is this even a question?!lol Incredible of course! The processor on that bad boy is worth it! and the camera, and the screen, and the phone itself,plus itll get rooted very soon so custom ROMs will be flooding the incredible forum!
I have a TP2 and love it but trust me...Android is the way to go orrrrr, a TMO HD2
Well leebsammy it is all personal choice of course, but it seems like you want to stick on the Android side of things... My vote would be for the Incredible, and that not only comes from the fact that it is natively an Android based device... Specification-wise it trumphs every aspect of the Rhodium.
On that note I went from a Tilt 2 (TP2) to a Nexus One, and while I was/still am a huge Windows Mobile junkie... I will not be returning, it was great, but Android is so much more up to my speed. I like multimedia, ease of use, and sheer functionality. While the TP2 was a great phone, I felt the hardware was a little dated, and having it in a nice Body Glove case, I was upset when I'd run out of RAM and have to pull it all the way out in order to soft reset. On the upside that keyboard was AWESOME! However, being on the Nexus One - Swype has more than made up for its lack of a keyboard, and the Snapdragon processor has never gotten bogged down. Mind you I have never had an HTC phone and kept it stock, but the Nexus is actually very nice as-is and as such I haven't done anything to it, other than install applications!
And also if you bought a TP2 with the intention of running Android, it was not nearly mature enough for daily use on my GSM model.
So like I said my vote go for the Incredible, and I don't think you you will be disappointed.
leebsammy said:
I'm currently a Verizon Wireless Customer. I have my NE2 and can get the TP2 for $50 or the Incredible for $170. I'm looking for recommendations. I'm coming from the Droid Eris which was given to me as a gift. I loved android with Sense UI. I know that the TP2 has WM 6.1 or 6.5 but can boot android 2.1 with Sense UI now as well. with limitations. I like that the TP2 is highly customizable with various different roms to choose from. Also, Having a hardware keyboard would be nice to use again. I've only heard perfect things about the TP2's keyboard... The incredible has clearly newer technology with Android 2.1 with Sense UI fully working. I'm sure the phone will eventually be rooted and henceforth also very customizable. I know the specs of both phones. Based on everything including the difference in price, what are your recommendations?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rhodium all the time!!!
I prefer to have a REAL keyboard then better specs
glitzbd said:
Well leebsammy it is all personal choice of course, but it seems like you want to stick on the Android side of things... My vote would be for the Incredible, and that not only comes from the fact that it is natively an Android based device... Specification-wise it trumphs every aspect of the Rhodium.
On that note I went from a Tilt 2 (TP2) to a Nexus One, and while I was/still am a huge Windows Mobile junkie... I will not be returning, it was great, but Android is so much more up to my speed. I like multimedia, ease of use, and sheer functionality. While the TP2 was a great phone, I felt the hardware was a little dated, and having it in a nice Body Glove case, I was upset when I'd run out of RAM and have to pull it all the way out in order to soft reset. On the upside that keyboard was AWESOME! However, being on the Nexus One - Swype has more than made up for its lack of a keyboard, and the Snapdragon processor has never gotten bogged down. Mind you I have never had an HTC phone and kept it stock, but the Nexus is actually very nice as-is and as such I haven't done anything to it, other than install applications!
And also if you bought a TP2 with the intention of running Android, it was not nearly mature enough for daily use on my GSM model.
So like I said my vote go for the Incredible, and I don't think you you will be disappointed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot for you're suggestions. I appreciate all of you guys input. You're probably right about me wanting to stay with android. Having a Droid eris however, i hated having such a short battery life.. The incredible has the same battery as the eris. i can't imagine that the snapdragon and extra ram would do anything but drain it's life even more. I've heard that the TP2 can get through a full day with heavy useage. also having the availability of android and wm would be nice. if the developers could get sound working for android for TP2; i wouldn't have an issue running it most of the time. I could still run swype on the tp2 for portrait mode, and use the hw keyboard in landscape. besides texting, i really only use the browser and a few apps. gmail/ pandora. The lower price of the TP2 also would be nicer to my wallet...
Help me choose!
Usage:
1. Watching video, mostly movies, without the hassle of converting formats, etc.
2. Browsing with the best experience possible
3. Cool things like on the HD2, i.e. Playstation emulation, bluetooth peripherals, USB Host functionality etc.
4. An easy to understand file system. I'm uncomfortable with Linux, thus my hesitation with Android.
Time I want to keep the device:
About two years. I want something reliable and something that won't bore me after a while.
Thanks for any help you guys provide.
I hope you are aware that you've already made your own choice.
Everything you've said is hinting at the HD2 already. Do you need us to reassure you that you are doing the right thing? It's really just a phone OP. Get the one you want. Don't let anyone else tell you what is right for you or tell you what you should want.
PoisonWolf said:
I hope you are aware that you've already made your own choice.
Everything you've said is hinting at the HD2 already. Do you need us to reassure you that you are doing the right thing? It's really just a phone OP. Get the one you want. Don't let anyone else tell you what is right for you or tell you what you should want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually am completely sold on the HD2, however the fact that in those two years that I'd want to keep the deivce, Android will probably be all the rage and we'd have the HD2 completely outdated without any WP7 support. That is my only concern.
hackm0d said:
I actually am completely sold on the HD2, however the fact that in those two years that I'd want to keep the deivce, Android will probably be all the rage and we'd have the HD2 completely outdated without any WP7 support. That is my only concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's your point?
You already stated that you're uncomfortable with Linux. And you pretty much want the HD2.
You can't have everything in this world. Pick one, use the device, enjoy the device and get your money's worth out of it. If you want WP7 support, wait one more year for the HD3. I'm pretty certain by then you'll have a 1.2 Ghz dual-core 4.5" screen monstrosity with a 2000 mAH battery pack running Windows Phone 7.
Whatever it is, do not buy the HD2 under the assumption that XDA will definitely port WP7 to it. To be more precise, buy a device for the features it has now, and don't bank on features that may or may not come.
What does uncomfortable with linux mean?
See if you can have a play with a decent android device and see if the usability improvements over winmo is worth it?
hackm0d said:
I want something reliable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's your answer. Keep away from Windows Mobile.
hackm0d said:
I actually am completely sold on the HD2, however the fact that in those two years that I'd want to keep the deivce, Android will probably be all the rage and we'd have the HD2 completely outdated without any WP7 support. That is my only concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for Leo, definetly the fastest device out there.
Don´t worry about upgrading to WP7, it will be possible for sure with the great Chefs and Devs from XDA
Android is nice and some are looking for it because it´s new...on my opinion is nice but immature and limited for now.
I´ll stick to WM for a while.
orb3000 said:
Don´t worry about upgrading to WP7, it will be possible for sure with the great Chefs and Devs from XDA
I´ll stick to WM for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree that xda will port it... But I dont think it would never reach a level that you can use it on a daily basis...
See android on wm devices... They have ported on many devices ( more than an year of work) but not fully fn for use on a daily basis ... Unless i missed something
Have to disagree
I have HTC Universal who originally was designed to run WM5 and now I am using it at it´s 100% capacity with WM6.5.
I don´t see why it can´t happen the same to Leo upgrading just one generation to WP7, it has the power and as I said the great minds here @XDA will sor it out for sure
Andorid example is completely another stuff, to port one OS to a completely different build device, that is limited for now but perhaps later will be full and stable, who knows...
orb3000 said:
Have to disagree
I have HTC Universal who originally was designed to run WM5 and now I am using it at it´s 100% capacity with WM6.5.
I don´t see why it can´t happen the same to Leo upgrading just one generation to WP7, it has the power and as I said the great minds here @XDA will sor it out for sure
Andorid example is completely another stuff, to port one OS to a completely different build device, that is limited for now but perhaps later will be full and stable, who knows...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, but WM5 uses the same WinCE 5.2 kernel that 6.x and 6.5.x have, so porting WM6.x to WM5 is very easy because everything is well documented, and everyone knows WinCE 5.2 inside and out already. The drivers, the bootloader, the file system, and everything else are all compatible because it's the same exact kernel. It's a whole different ballgame when you have completely different OS kernel (WinCE 7) that nobody here knows indepth, which has specific hardware requirements and most likely needs a completely rewritten SPL, drivers, etc. and uses a completely different file system, and ROM update system. It's not going to be easy, if even possible at all, to port WM7 to the HD2 without getting the internal Microsoft builds they're testing on the HD2 (which will never be publicly released). What I'm trying to say is, don't get your hopes up on a WM7 port.
@OP: As others have said, you've basically made that decision yourself. Android is based on Linux, so if you don't like Linux, don't go with Android. If you get the HD2, get it because you like the features it currently has, since you will likely not see new ones besides a somewhat functional port of Android and some backported software from newer WM6.x phones. The HD2 will probably stay the way it is now, so only buy it if you're willing to stay with the same everything for the next few years. That being said, all the devices you listed are very popular, well made devices, and I don't think that you could really be unhappy with your device no matter what you get. I do know, if it makes any difference to you, that a PSX emulator was shown on video this week running on a Nexus One and USB host functionality was ported specifically to the Nexus One as well.
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Ah, but WM5 uses the same WinCE 5.2 kernel that 6.x and 6.5.x have, so porting WM6.x to WM5 is very easy because everything is well documented, and everyone knows WinCE 5.2 inside and out already. The drivers, the bootloader, the file system, and everything else are all compatible because it's the same exact kernel. It's a whole different ballgame when you have completely different OS kernel (WinCE 7) that nobody here knows indepth, which has specific hardware requirements and most likely needs a completely rewritten SPL, drivers, etc. and uses a completely different file system, and ROM update system. It's not going to be easy, if even possible at all, to port WM7 to the HD2 without getting the internal Microsoft builds they're testing on the HD2 (which will never be publicly released). What I'm trying to say is, don't get your hopes up on a WM7 port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are right, but still have my hopes
Something for sure can be done
The thing is though, I will not have an always-on internet connection on any of these phones. Even then, it won't be 3G, it'll be EDGE or GPRS. From that standpoint, how much functionality of each of the phones will be reduced? Android has the push e-mail, social integration and app updates that need internet to function. Do you think without internet much of the functionality of the homescreen and Android itself (over Windows Mobile) is negated?
Why not the dell streak? It just came out in the UK, it has a 5" screen, which is great for videos. Also, ZodTTD is working on a PSX emulator and the streak should be getting a 2.2 upgrade within a few months (sooner with the root progress over at modaco). Engadget review.
hackm0d said:
The thing is though, I will not have an always-on internet connection on any of these phones. Even then, it won't be 3G, it'll be EDGE or GPRS. From that standpoint, how much functionality of each of the phones will be reduced? Android has the push e-mail, social integration and app updates that need internet to function. Do you think without internet much of the functionality of the homescreen and Android itself (over Windows Mobile) is negated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edge or GPRS works great for things like facebook updates or email. WinMo is old and will not be receiving new games or programs. Also, you dont need the facebook feeds and other crap android has. I rarely use them.
Okay I waited on buying the phone today and probably will not until I have a definite conclusion. Please, if anyone with any of these phones answers this I would mighty appreciate it. I am only doing this because WM will soon be outdated and this is my chance to jump onto the Android bandwagon. If I can be convinced that any of these phones can perform as I am used to in Windows Mobile, I'll switch with the feeling that I've bought something future proof.
Questions for Android users:
1. If you have customized Windows Mobile, how is Android in comparison? Do I need to have a comprehensive knowledge of Linux in order to customize it? In WM you usually just install a CAB file or edit a registry entry. Is it the same in Android, or easier?
2. How is movie watching on the screen? Does it look good for a two hour or so movie or would I have to squint?
3. Same question as above for web browsing. Any Flash support? Can I read an article online without any squinting?
4. Is utilitarian app availability (e.g file managers, task managers, CPU speed editors, etc.) as good as Windows Mobile? This is one of the more important ones.
5. How is the camera in either Android devices? I'm going to do a lot of video capture, and as such how are the results?
6. Is there any sync software available (such as WMDC w/ Windows Mobile) for Android that performs similar things, i.e. backing up all memory, contacts, pictures, etc.?
7. Which of these devices has had better community progress? The Nexus has been hacked to have USB host functionality and lots of custom ROMs are being developed. By a community support perspective, which one is better supported? The Desire or Nexus One?
hackm0d said:
Help me choose!
Usage:
1. Watching video, mostly movies, without the hassle of converting formats, etc.
2. Browsing with the best experience possible
3. Cool things like on the HD2, i.e. Playstation emulation, bluetooth peripherals, USB Host functionality etc.
4. An easy to understand file system. I'm uncomfortable with Linux, thus my hesitation with Android.
Time I want to keep the device:
About two years. I want something reliable and something that won't bore me after a while.
Thanks for any help you guys provide.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your point 1 leads me to advise you to get the HD2, but honestly I think it is too big for a phone.
I'd go with the Nexus One anyday. Froyo just made it even better.
hackm0d said:
1. If you have customized Windows Mobile, how is Android in comparison? Do I need to have a comprehensive knowledge of Linux in order to customize it? In WM you usually just install a CAB file or edit a registry entry. Is it the same in Android, or easier?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you doing the customizing yourself or installing a cab file? For android we install apk, zip files, or we apply a metamorph. That may sound hard but trust me it is very easy. If you like to make your own there are plenty of guides online.
hackm0d said:
2. How is movie watching on the screen? Does it look good for a two hour or so movie or would I have to squint?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N1 has an amazing screen and everyone I know can not believe how sharp my movies are.
hackm0d said:
3. Same question as above for web browsing. Any Flash support? Can I read an article online without any squinting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One the N1 with froyo, yes.
hackm0d said:
4. Is utilitarian app availability (e.g file managers, task managers, CPU speed editors, etc.) as good as Windows Mobile? This is one of the more important ones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, if not better.
hackm0d said:
5. How is the camera in either Android devices? I'm going to do a lot of video capture, and as such how are the results?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Video on any cellphone is not going to be the greatest, but I am very happy with my camera.
hackm0d said:
6. Is there any sync software available (such as WMDC w/ Windows Mobile) for Android that performs similar things, i.e. backing up all memory, contacts, pictures, etc.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have a gmail account you are in the google "cloud" so all your contacts will be fine. Titanium Backup is a great app for everything else.
hackm0d said:
7. Which of these devices has had better community progress? The Nexus has been hacked to have USB host functionality and lots of custom ROMs are being developed. By a community support perspective, which one is better supported? The Desire or Nexus One?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N1 easily. It is very easy to unlook and with no risk of bricking. The Desire on the other hand is something you have to cross your fingures and hope you get lucky even if you do everything right.
Thanks jz9833, that's the desire ruled out.
btw what WM device have you used before the Nexus that makes you say this?
hackm0d said:
Thanks jz9833, that's the desire ruled out.
btw what WM device have you used before the Nexus that makes you say this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had a Wizard, Tilt, Fuze, and Tilt 2.
It was really hard for me to leave the WM enviroment, but once I did it I never looked back. The only things I miss are native office mobile apps. The ones android comes will only support viewing and not editting. Since I rarely used this on WM it's not an issue for me but could be for some. There are some apps in the market for this though.
Also you will need to download a file manager, but there are plenty of great options.
Divx files are no supported for now. You wil need to convert all video files to an mp4 format which sucks, but you will not regret it.
hackm0d said:
Thanks jz9833, that's the desire ruled out.
btw what WM device have you used before the Nexus that makes you say this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the WM Hermes & HD. After trying the Nexus, I have never looked back. Maybe someday I'll try WM7 if it ever get's here?
I am torn between the Samsung Focus and Samsung Captivate. I like the look of WP7, but I also like the rich features of Android. I have tried out both, and honestly I like the WP7 interface and keyboard better. I am 14 so I do lots of texting and the WP7 keyboard beats Android's by a long shot, but I like the widgets and general openness of Android. Can you give me any suggestions?
Well, I also had the decision between Android and WP7. I took WP7 because Android felt a bit laggy =/ Windows Phone 7 looks simple but is very stable and there are lots of features (and the next Update will bring about 500 new ones).
I had to choose between WP7 and Android 6 month ago. I took a WP7 (an Omnia 7 because Bouygues Telecom didn't have the HTC 7 Mozart that I wanted).
I made my choice for the UI of WP7, very simple, all apps have the same UI, and no complicated non-intuitive menus. But I can't share contacts via Bluetooth or use my phone like USB-key; Generally this actions happen rarely but I see and use Metro UI and Metro UI apps every days.
I hope that my English will be good enough.
I am having HTC desire, just ordered HTC Mozart, android though good but is very laggy sometimes with horrible battery life, hope Mozart has better battery, the WP7 UI is good and simple am amazed with new features coming in Mango
I used WP7 for 3 months. Liked it very much but limitations made me crazy. It was LG Optimus 7.
Than I took SE Arc and man that's awesome. Android is miles ahead, whatever WP7 offers. And you know, battery life is a myth now. Arc is working even longer on one charge than WP7 device. As well as lagginess, it's also a myth now.
However it's a matter of personal choices.
And be careful, this thread can turn into war soon
WP7 of course!
Even had a SGS 2 for two weeks but was really disappointed with Android.. so i just bought a WP7 phone and im not chaning back anytime soon! All the features im missing will get fixed in Mango so.. =)
WP7 for me
Hi Laura331,
I originally chose Android and purchased an entry level ZTE Blade handset (also known as the orange San Fransisco) and was not very pleased with the supplied O/S so i decided to root it and run the Cyanogen mod. It was nice looking and functional but it did lag quite a bit and then i found that one of the cyanogen mod updates had a virus written into it and that my telephone bill went through the roof due to a rogue auto dial application, needless to say the device was wiped and i started again with the Japanese Jellyfish mod (also nice looking but performance was worse than Cyanogen)
After all this i was of the opinion that Android is much the same as the old WM6.5. Choose a ROM, Build, squash bugs, wait for decreased performance, wipe and repeat.
Now i still have the Blade but sorry Dom (above) i have to disagree about the resolution of the bugs that i am still seeing with every Android rom, maybe its the entry level handset. However if that is the case the argument for better hardware being needed to run Android rings true.
Anyway i then bought an HD7 and although there were a few important things missing for me i have found that i can quite easily use it as a daily driver, its smooth, literally bug free (no restarts or ROM wipes) and is very tactile, infact its everything that WM6.5 and Android isnt. Add to this the plethora of tweaks and improvments coming with Mango and you have a mature O/S (that has hit the scene amazingly quickly) almost at a par with the years old and very experienced apple iOS, i fear Android may be running to catchup sooner than expected.
Either way my personal preference is the WP7 O/S but i suggest you try both handsets and utilise the 30 day cool down period with each handset to properly make your decision.
Kind Regards,
Creamy
creamy said:
Hi Laura331,
Now i still have the Blade but sorry Dom (above) i have to disagree about the resolution of the bugs that i am still seeing with every Android rom, maybe its the entry level handset. However if that is the case the argument for better hardware being needed to run Android rings true.
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
doministry said:
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.
I had an Arc (got it with my contract) along with my Omnia 7(bought it loose before), and it is not smoother than my Omnia.
While you can argue that Android has more functionality, WP7 is just smoother and far more pleasant to use (for me, IMO).
doministry said:
Without a doubt these problems exist. But as you pointed, Android exists on so many different devices, also on phones with lower specs which are ALWAYS quite buggy/laggy and much worse in performance. You have no idea how WP7 or iOS would behave in those circumstances just because there is no comparison. There is a reason why 1st gen WP7 had such strict hardware limitations.
As for speed - SE Arc is exactly the same hardware as WP7 but it's even snappier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SE Arc has not the same hardware, it has a MSM8255 and WP7 has a QSD8250
45nm vs 65nm and Adreno 205 vs Adreno 200 (205 is a GPU 2x faster than the 200)
if you want lag on your phone on a regular basis, android is your best bet.
all that lag on android is now a myth, is a myth.
...if you like to spend hours fiddling with your phone, flashing, tweaking, than Android is your best choice. If you like something smooth and easy to use, with maybe for the time being a little less functions, then I recommend WP7....
I used to be a WM "power user", the todays equivalent of Android, flashing and customizing whatever I could get hands on, but I now enjoy the relaxing smoothness of my HTC Mozart, just doing what I need, right out of the box....
FTC said:
...if you like to spend hours fiddling with your phone, flashing, tweaking, than Android is your best choice. If you like something smooth and easy to use, with maybe for the time being a little less functions, then I recommend WP7....
I used to be a WM "power user", the todays equivalent of Android, flashing and customizing whatever I could get hands on, but I now enjoy the relaxing smoothness of my HTC Mozart, just doing what I need, right out of the box....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I kept my Blade for flashing and playing with O/S's as that is what Android is best at, however if the stock ROM's do not improve significantly (for all android hardware) Android will be viewed by many as an alternative to WM6.5 not WP7.
It will never be my daily driver due to the virus i had, potentailly compromised open source apps without a decent antivirus (which will no doubt crucify the O/S and HW) cannot be trusted.
I guess there is an advantage to closed source
Regards,
Creamy
Xylias said:
Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.
I had an Arc (got it with my contract) along with my Omnia 7(bought it loose before), and it is not smoother than my Omnia.
While you can argue that Android has more functionality, WP7 is just smoother and far more pleasant to use (for me, IMO).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but equally WP7 is slooower in many areas like scrolling for instance.
dada051 said:
SE Arc has not the same hardware, it has a MSM8255 and WP7 has a QSD8250
45nm vs 65nm and Adreno 205 vs Adreno 200 (205 is a GPU 2x faster than the 200)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay thanks for correction.
doministry said:
Yes but equally WP7 is slooower in many areas like scrolling for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scrolling??
Are you sure young man? Android scrolling is an abomination in comparison with WP7, infact i think it was the smoothness of operational functionality like scrolling that Xylias was referring to.
Regards,
Creamy
To the OP, Doministry is correct to say you should check out both and go with what you prefer, the ony caveat to that is that any WP7 you try right now does not have Mango which will add a ton of new features to WP7 in a couple of months time.
laura331 said:
I am torn between the Samsung Focus and Samsung Captivate. I like the look of WP7, but I also like the rich features of Android. I have tried out both, and honestly I like the WP7 interface and keyboard better. I am 14 so I do lots of texting and the WP7 keyboard beats Android's by a long shot, but I like the widgets and general openness of Android. Can you give me any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Vibrant which is related to captive an these has to be the best phones out there an there almost a year old the gpu blows anything out there out of the water an u can flash roms which makes it feel like u have a new phone every time an android is pretty smooth even do it doesn't have hardware acceleration an really wp7 is boring :-/ an future look dim an android has ics coming which is gonna add hardware acceleration also app store sucks actually my friend had WP7 an he brought it back 2 days later to get droid X
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Don't get the captivate. I rather you suffer WP7 limitations. However if you could afford a SGS2 or a HTC Sensation 4g, go for it . No lag, twice as smooth, no restrictions, better apps, real multi player games, docstogo which is pawning unreleased mango office. On the HTC you can even remove bloat without root, and it has the HTC hub.
No need to flash roms or fiddle with your phone. Unless you want to, you have the option.
Edit
I have a vibrant. Had a HD7.
Valid arguments can be made in either direction so, ultimately, it comes down to personal taste. What do you want from your phone?
I personally feel that, compared to WP7, Android is "boring". We've had static icons since the days of Windows 3.1. Aside from Live Tiles, there is so much built into the OS that just works right out of the box...and works well. Apps will come, if that's your thing, but i wouldn't base your purchase on that.
WP7 offers a very fluid experience and does it with style. Just about everything that other phones can do will be there soon except it will be in a different context. One that i find to be new and exciting.
I'm not saying "Android Sux" or anything as it does have it's merits, it just wasn't for me. Just more "same old same old".
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
_hyperdude said:
-sigh- Yet another thread about comparing specs...
The GNexus has already been rooted. And it'll run pure Android over an unlock(ed/able) bootloader, so there would be little standing in the way of rooting it otherwise.
I've been waiting on the GN for about a year, ever since I started getting tired of my OG's sluggish performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen. This phone was the phone Google used to DEVELOP ICS. Which means by nature its going to have the best time running ICS. That's why I'm getting it, and I'm sure why some others are attracted to the Nexus Line
I am my mom's "little elitest"
Deal with it!
PsychoSimatic said:
Well it kind of surprises me there isnt a clear winner among these devices on this site. Why one over the other when your going to root and rom it anyways so why look at anything but hardware? If this isnt the case then maybe i need to be educated.
Also didnt mean it as really a "specs" comparison. I know the other ones are better, I just wanted to hear if you all think 4.0 is that much better that its worth going for this device or if there was some magic bullet in the samsung that just made it a clear victor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
PsychoSimatic said:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just some thoughts.
The Rezound's 1.5GHz qualcomm chip is probably slower than the 1.2GHz OMAP4460. The Nexus is also a 'true' 720p display (sub-pixel arrangement doesn't change that,) the Beats label was laughed out of the audiophile world and into smartphones - where it became an equalizer that accentuates bass. In addition, the Rezound uses MHL for video-out (HDMI,) just like the Nexus
The RAZR is much more comparable to the Nexus. The Nexus has a far superior screen, but you lose out on the microSD slot and the build materials (and ultra-thinness.) The dedicated HDMI port is a boon though, since MHL displays are nonexistant at this point. Funnily enough, my main con with the RAZR is the supercolossal side bezel.
For me it's between the Nexus and the RAZR. If there turns out to be no 32GB GSM Nexus, or if I can't get it here, I'll take a hard look at the RAZR. And probably end up waiting for a Tegra 3 phone instead.
You make it sound like there's a phone that doesn't have bad 3G to 4G transitions on Verizon. They all have issues as far as I know. Whether the nexus has decent reception or not we won't know until later...but no reason to assume any worse.
S
PsychoSimatic said:
Huge time for us droid users on Verizon Wireless, some heavy hitting phones come out and i wanted to get some feedback from the developer community on the NEXUS side of things because initially this was the one device i really wanted.
Are you all still sold on the NEXUS even though its hardware specs are considerably less than what is offered by the:
HTC Rezound
(Dual 1.5 Ghz / True HD display, Pure Beats Audio SDcard/HDMI)
Motorolla RAZR
(Dual 1.2 Super AMOLED Advanced display and high quality materials in build/HDMI/SDCard -granted no removable battery )?
Do you think it would be better to go with the hardware and root/flash to Ice cream Sandwich later on?
I can confirm that Verizon is going to load this phone up with all sorts of preinstalled junk but obviously this is removable by anyone who roots their device, but how easy will it be to root something on 4.0 given that there isnt much out there for it?
I personally was dying for a Droid with Icecream Sandwich on it but im afraid to jump on board with Samsung again because of the known issues with the antennae in the phone (dropping service, poor 4G to 3G transition, all of which are confirmed issues with have haunted Verizon's 4G Samsung offerings)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nexus is far superior in EVERY aspect. Even in specs. Nexus has OMAP 4460 Razr has OMAP 4430 and Rezound has the same ol MSM8660. The Nexus is UNDERCLOCKED at 1.2 ghz and the 4460 usually runs at 1.5 ghz stock. Not to mention the software on the Nexus which is obviously 4.0 has been built around that specific hardware. So if Google optimized ICS for that specific hardware setup that shows you something. It will run better on that setup then any other around. Not to mention you can OEM unlock the Nexus and you'll have to wait for exploits on the Rezound and the Razr you'll get some awful bootstrap application that won't even save you in a soft brick situation. To me the superior device is so obvious. The Razr is clearly marketed towards the average everyday user who just wants to make calls/text browse the web and do dumb things like Facebook. The Rezound will most likely be able to do the same things that the Nexus will be able to do though as long as it gets s-off (which I'm pretty sure it will, but when will it is the question). The development community is going to be absolutely HUGE on the Nexus, I am willing to bet it's going to be the biggest development community on a VZW phone since the original Moto DROID. Once again the choice is a no brainer to me and the majority of the people I know in the community. Nobody wants that crappy Razr and HTC does have nice hardware but they really need to switch up their style of devices. They are sexy as hell but the same old style is getting old IMO. Time for a little change HTC!
---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------
itsjusttim said:
Also have to consider bootloaders and xda development.... since you are posting here, you must be interested in enhancement of your phone.
When you add those to the overall specs, and that the nexus is a world phone... (added development on xda) its hard not to chose the GN, IMHO.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhhh, when did the Nexus become a world phone? The LTE version is NOT a world phone at all, and it's pretty clear that's the version he's talking about since he's comparing it to others on VZW.
Nice...
Honestly this was exactly the response i was hoping for, thank you
now im literally foaming at the mouth to get my nexus
martonikaj said:
Droid RAZR: MotoBlur
HTC Rezound: HTC Sense 3.5
Galaxy Nexus: Stock Android 4.0
Galaxy Nexus wins. Game over. Thread closed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
RVDigital said:
THIS and everything about it.
The following is not my writing but it more or less sums up my feelings on the Android Universe.
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-looking-at-android-all-wrong-user-submitted/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never said that they are completely different OSes, but they're pretty darn close (looking at you, Sense). My point is that although it is just a skin, you can't remove it. You can't get rid of it, and you can't disable it out of the box.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off, who said anything about an iPhone? Going to disregard that part.
Yes, obviously you can root and custom ROM your phone. But why should I have to root my phone just to get the experience that I want? Is it too much to ask to just get the OS and setup I want right out of the box? Or at least have the option to turn off the OEM and carrier **** they put on it?
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to respectfully disagree. The hardware specs are good to keep in mind, but they aren't everything. The difference of a couple hundred mhz processor, or slightly different memory config, or dimensions don't have to be the only thing you factor your buying decision on.
With a device like a Nexus, you can really consider the phone for its entire experience, and what it comes out of the box as. You've got to realize that sometimes that's important to people. I shouldn't have to buy a phone and root it the moment I get home just to have a usable experience. And I know its stupid, but I just can't keep supporting companies that completely destroy Android like that.
You can have fun buying your phone and waiting for a root method, then flashing a new ROM and watching as dev support drops off and you're left with an old ROM on your phone. I'm going Nexus this time around, and don't plan on doing anything else.
Tornlogic said:
I have to disagree with this post, and what that user said in his.
They are not different operating systems. As much as you think Sense, Blur, and TouchWiz are different OSes or whatever, its just a SKIN. A theme. That's it. Nexus devices are just pure Android with no Skinning.
So you can take an HTC, Motorola or Samsung device, root it, and install an AOSP Rom of your choice. CM7 for example, and look... you have a pure Android Device too. You can't however, take an iPhone and install a fully functional Android OS on it.
So I look at devices for their hardware, not themeing or skins that can be easily removed and replaced. I can't however take out the CPU and drop something newer or better in it... or change out a monitor/display like you can on a desktop.
Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. Yes, Sense/Touchwiz/Blur are "skins" or themes over Android, but it goes deeper than that. It's not just a theme like you see themes for different ROMs coming out (where different colors and background images are used) - it goes down to the firmware level, with drivers to run the redesigned apps and add extra functionality (or take some away).
RVDigital said:
Consider the following...
Saying Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are simply "Skins" on top of stock AOSP is like saying Ubuntu, Mint Linux, and the various other Debian Bases are "Skins" of Debian. Yes, they all share the same BASE, but this is the only thing they have in common. HTC, Samsung, and Moto have deeply integrated their UIs into the Android platform and have basically made it their own.
As the poster above me stated, the skins cannot be simply removed. If that was the case, I would have AOSP on my EVO 3D by now. Since HTC has decided to deeply integrate their drivers into their Sense Android Operating system framework, "Vanilla Android" is not possible at this time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
Chirality said:
Ubuntu, Mint, Debian are all just distros; Sense, TouchWiz, and MotoBlur are just skins. They are not operating systems. The operating systems are, in the first case, GNU/Linux; and in the second case, Android. The operating system provides a set of libraries and defines a set of standards for programs to run on the OS. Just like any program made for GNU/Linux on x86 will run on any x86 system running GNU/Linux, regardless of whether it's running Debian or Ubuntu or Mint, any program made for Android on ARMv7 will run on any ARMv7 system running Android, regardless of whether it's running TouchWiz or Sense or MotoBLUR. In the case of Ubuntu, Debian, Mint etc. we call them distros because they include a set of choices of components in addition to the GNu/Linux base system (package managers, window managers, desktop environments, etc.). In the case of TouchWiz, Sense, etc. we call them skins because they include a customized look & feel and a set of additional applications and widgets that run on top of the OS. You might argue that these might be called distros, but that's a bit of a stretch because the customizations provided by these don't extend far beyond the look & feel and some additional utilities that run on top of the Android base system, and possibly some native drivers for each manufacturer's hardware. It is not quite as extensive a customization as a distro, they are more like standard Android bundled with a custom skin and some additional apps and drivers. They are certainly not different OSes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
RVDigital said:
I realize that the analogy I provided is not a 1:1 example. I will substitute "Branch" for my use of the word "Distro" in the previous example to better explain the point of view.
In reply to your post I ask, how do you explain the deep framework integration manufactures such as HTC utilize to a point where the removal of such framework from the base AOSP causes hardware to stop functioning? I cant simply accept that this is a "Skin" of the base, I see HTC Sense as a BRANCH of the Android base.
The point is, its not even close to Google's idea or implementation of Android. When you add things to the base experience, you're going to run into unique (positive/negative) consequences that one otherwise wouldn't with AOSP. Take for example, HTCs recent controversy over their "Spyware" that was integrated into the Sense branch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
Quick question: Do you guys think that the distribution of developer support for these phones? After all, the reason that most of us are here are because of the community, and its the dev community is what makes phones today great, and I just want to pick a phone that will have a large developer following.
Chirality said:
It's not framework integration that's preventing you from using AOSP on your HTC device, it's the availability of device drivers. If HTC made all their device drivers available in source form, then you can just build these for AOSP and use AOSP on HTC devices with full functionality. The skin and the drivers can be decoupled - the skin may contain certain utilities that depend on some drivers to function, but the drivers shouldn't depend on the skin or its included apps to function. Imagine if Asus designed some special hardware that runs on their x86-based computers and sold a version of Windows that includes these special drivers that are not available anywhere else, then you have to buy Asus' version of Windows to run on these Asus computers, but it's still just Windows, with some extra drivers, not a fork of Windows. Of course you can't do this with Windows since it's a proprietary system, but it's done with Linux and Android, for better or worse.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem is HTC does NOT provide the necessary driver source and thus it remains closed. They have taken an originally open source platform and effectively locked it down, short of closing it. I have a hard time understanding how this can simply be called a "Skin". Nothing about Sense is necessary for the Android experience, it's simply paint, wallpaper, and furniture.
It's like comparing Oranges and Grapefruit. Similar, even in the same family, but NOT the same.