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It is quite irritating when I want to view the kaiser upgrading section and I have to scroll half way down the page just to view new threads. Would it be too hard to make 1 Kaiser sticky thread and link to the threads that are currently stuck within the first post?
Yeah, looks like we need a rollup thread here.
I agree, especially with all the 6.1 discussions, the Kaiser section is bloated. But the irony, even with have a page of stickers, newcomers still ask the same questions the stickies answer.
Judging by all of the questions we get, people aren't reading them anyways.
The wiki contains links to every thread stickied, so we only need a locked thread to say read the wiki before asking any question and the "posting and you video"
Well, we need to SITCKY this thread as it touchs on a very important issue! NO MORE STICKIES!
Most newcomers don't search or look at the stickies anyway so maybe 1 or 2 which contain the other stickies or point to the relevant part of the wiki would be better.
But, personally I'm not as tech savvy as most of you guys and I use them a hell of a lot either for myself or pointing others in the right direction - so don't lose them altogether.
If this is being tidied up - maybe we should start a new WM6.1 forum as well (suggested by others).
I second a WM6.1 thread all by itself!
I also agree this would be very helpful to have another thread just solely dedicated to WM6.1
People don't use the wiki enough because all that crap at the top makes people think that there isn't any relevant information.
It needs a TOC and more interpage linking. If nobody objects, I'll think about spending some time to make it alot better (somewhat like my pages)...
On the other hand, it'd be *ALOT* easier if Flar would just hurry up with that MediaWiki upgrade that was promised when she was hired
You know the downside to adding a WM6.1 section...half the posts in there will be about WM6.0 and half the posts in the 6.0 will be on WM6.1 because people don't pay attention to what they're doing.
Yes, yes I am a pessimist. Why? Because it is impossible for an optimist to be pleasantly surprised
We don't need another WM6.1 forum, we need less 6.1 dogfood
It's one of the reasons why I've decided to stop working on the WM6.1 ROMs and offer what I've done up to everyone, so that the best chefs actually improve on it.
Hopefully this will placate the need for people to post their own ROMs, because what everyone really wants to see is quality, not quantity.
_Alex_ said:
People don't use the wiki enough because all that crap at the top makes people think that there isn't any relevant information.
It needs a TOC and more interpage linking. If nobody objects, I'll think about spending some time to make it alot better (somewhat like my pages)...
On the other hand, it'd be *ALOT* easier if Flar would just hurry up with that MediaWiki upgrade that was promised when she was hired
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I agree with _Alex_ about the wiki. It'd be a lot more useful if it was laid out a bit better. I try to find all the information I need without asking questions and I find that his wiki pages are easier to deal with than the regular pages. If we could get the wiki straightened out, then we could collapse all the stickies into one with a series of wiki links in the first post.
just my .02eu (cause the USD sucks right now )
wm6.1 thread/section is pointless. What will that accomplish aside from more clusterfucked questions that will be asked in both upgrading and wm 6.1?
WM 6.1 doesn't distinguish it's own section it's not like what wm5 was to wm6 with the hermes or other devices.
in defense of the stickies, i'm quite new and have found almost every single one of them useful.
=)
I dread to think how many more n00b questions would clog up this forum if the stickies weren't there.
Admittedly a lot of people ignore them before posting, but I'd like to think that a quiet majority read them, get their questions answered, and dont bother the rest of us as a result...
Lets make a sticky out of this...!
we should just have two stickies - the first one being "NEWBIES: Read the Sticky Below Before Doing Anything", and the Second Sticky containing all of the stickies we have right now.
First off... sorry for the stream of consciousness writing...
I'm pretty much in agreement with most of you on this one. They currently take up almost half the page and though some of them are posted to quite often a lot of them are dead or closed. I like the idea of making the WIKI a lot more functional. Admittedly I got my Wizard just a few months ago (from a friend who upgraded) and that wiki was all I needed to get it CID unlocked, SIM unlocked and flashed...
I think two stickies is sufficient, the first telling Newbs to read the stickies and the wiki before posting questions and the second an editable list of posts that are considered sticky (though this sort of defeats the purpose of a wiki).
Maybe just a single Sticky that says:
Subject: BEFORE POSTING: Read the WIKI. Use the search function. Use Google.
Body: If you are new to this forum or have not yet done so, read the wiki <link>. It contains information on:
How to Flash a new ROM.
How to SIM Unlock your device.
How to CID Unlock your device.
Links to ROMs (original and cooked).
How to revert back to the original ROM and SPL.
How to cook/make your own ROM.
If you can't find your answer in the wiki....
Use the search function:
Try many different searches to find what you're looking for, start at the forum for your device and if you don't find an answer try the entire forum.
If you still can't find your answer...
Use Google:
type in your search word(s)/phrase and the site you want to search...
example: "sim unlock" kaiser site:xda-developers.com
If all else fails and you want to risk the potential ridicule and flaming of the more senior and sometimes jaded cooks/developers/professionals, you may post your question, but you should be damn sure you checked/tried all of the above before doing so.
Cheers...
I like the sticky, icky, icky
While browsing this forum, I've noticed that there are really two types of threads: (1) ROM Releases & (2) Help Requests/Questions. We also have threads such as "List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links...." which attempt to aggregate the releases, but do not appear to remain up-to-date. I was wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to separate the two by simply having a sub-forum dedicated to the releases. It would be much easier to get a grasp on what the current variety of cooked/official ROMs looked like, and would leave more of the first page of the "main" forum available for the help/question threads.
Any thoughts? Improved suggestions?
DISCLAIMER: This idea may have already been discussed in the past, and if so, please feel free to just say so and post a link to the relevant thread. No need to re-explain something that's already been talked through. I couldn't find anything on the topic when searching via Google.
I think this is a great idea. It can be overwhelming when I just want to see the ROM updates and I have to go sifting through other things as well.
Alamei said:
While browsing this forum, I've noticed that there are really two types of threads: (1) ROM Releases & (2) Help Requests/Questions. We also have threads such as "List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links...." which attempt to aggregate the releases, but do not appear to remain up-to-date. I was wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to separate the two by simply having a sub-forum dedicated to the releases. It would be much easier to get a grasp on what the current variety of cooked/official ROMs looked like, and would leave more of the first page of the "main" forum available for the help/question threads.
Any thoughts? Improved suggestions?
DISCLAIMER: This idea may have already been discussed in the past, and if so, please feel free to just say so and post a link to the relevant thread. No need to re-explain something that's already been talked through. I couldn't find anything on the topic when searching via Google.
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That's actually a pretty good idea. They should be doing this to all forums in XDA-Developers.com. It will keep organization, less spamming of threads, and keep everyone happy. I think that this has already been discussed already, but I haven't seen any changes so it's a good thing you brought it back up again!
u know that sub forum will just eventually get clogged up with all other kind of threads and it will just be the same as it is with the kaiser upgrading forum now. we have a outdated wiki with some releases.......why dont you go ahead and add some stuff to that.
XtreMe_G said:
u know that sub forum will just eventually get clogged up with all other kind of threads and it will just be the same as it is with the kaiser upgrading forum now. we have a outdated wiki with some releases.......why dont you go ahead and add some stuff to that.
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Naturally rules should state the forum is only for new ROMS. Threads started relating to support should be disallowed. Only posts by cookers should be allowed by rules. (Avoid access control, new rom cookers would have to contact an admin to get their user group put in) Simply have moderators delete threads that were started seeking support or help.
I'm new to flashing myself and I've only been able to find a few ROMs. Why? Because of the disorganization.
New users like me can't find new ROM's because we don't know where to look or how to find them. There's no list, you just have to dig deep through the forums or try your luck with Google or the search function. There's a few listed on the wiki but highly outdated as you said. The new releases are hidden within pages of junk threads in this upgrading forum.
A wiki is a start -- but you have to know the names and URL's of existing threads or be damned good at searching for them to add them to the Wiki. I was going to try and update the wiki and didn't know where to start on finding roms.
A forum that was well-policed against junk offtopic threads could be beneficial for ROM makers and users who seek them alike. This idea should be brought up with the moderators/admins of the forum.
evrything is the mods should do this, the mods should do that, hey......this is a community. like i said, there's a wiki, feel free to contribute.
and how hard is it to find rom releases? just browse maybe the maybe first 10 page and put in watever rom link u find. anything beyond that is most likely outdated already
Well..this is the Kaiser upgrading forum. I think that's exactly where ROM releases should be. I also agree that this is a community...the wiki isn't up to date? Okay...it's a wiki...update it.
**This is my personal view...feel free to disagree.
this has been discussed already as it was asked about the 6.1 roms, and the answer is no. 6.1 is still wm6, its just a fancy AKU release, so there is no need for a subfora, and cooked roms has never gotten their own subfora, its not needed. If everyone would learn to read and post in the proper spots then the board wouldnt get cluttered, creating new subforas will not fix this problem.
Is probably because of the fact that people who really knows the answer do not care to read this part of the forum. Agree people?
There are plenty of people who read this section of the forum every day and come up with answers.
chill.
Do people really read this section? and answer?
Shalom Nir,
In almost 2 years of daily reading in the forum I have to admit I hardly read the question section... Look for yourself at any given moment - over 600 view the hack part, less than 10 in the question part...
Do the math - it is x60 likely to get an answer if it is published in the hack part. Not that you are not right, it is against human nature..
hehe. the questions & answers section only exists for about... 2 weeks now... that might be the reason
if you post in the development and hacking now you are asked to post here (or yelled at) and your thread may be moved or deleted. people are in that section to work on or download software, not to answer questions like "which is better, throttle launcher or wad"
as the section grows more and more, and people become more aware of it, they don't answer your questions there.
Another thing, when people log on they usually do look through the questions section to see if they can be a help, but if they can't then they move along. in other word people don't "dily-daly" around, they get the job done and then move on.
percisely put.
Every time I visit this site, I pay a visit to the Questions and asnwers forum. (since the QandA section has existed) First I check my previous posts to see if I can help those people first, then I search the QandA section to see if I can help with some of the new questions. If I can Help, I do try, if I can't I don't say anything and I leave to begin my own searching and reading, I constantly check back to New Posts to see if anyone has any new quetions I may be able to help with as well. This section does not show many people visiting because you don't need to stay long such as in the DandH section. there just isn't that much reading to do here as there is there.
Well put answers...
Sorry for playing the devil's advocate for you guys. I just pointed out what seems obvious. i did not even notice the Q&A section is that young... Silly me.
OK, you got me, from now on I am going to pay a visit to this section (as I just did). I don't post much but I am a WM user for 3 years now, starting with ETEN G500 , moving on with HTC P3600 and hopefully getting a touch HD as soon as it is supporting 3G in the US (yes, i still hope it will in the near future against current posts). My poor trinity is my witness, as there isn't one WWE ROM I did not test...
Since i am not a cooker, nor a talented graphic designer, I will try to help on this section as much as I can. Thanks for all the cookers , they are the ones to blame I hardly sleep since i was introduced to this forum...
i'll drink to that
Theoretically I agree with those defending the section. However, I just posted a question and 368 people are in dev and hacking and 1 person is in Q&A....me. Maybe it will take a little time for people to journey over that way. we shall see.
it doesn't matter how many people are in the Dev&Hack section and how many in the Q&A section.
the dev&hack section is NOT intended for questions, it's intended for Development and Hacking.
the fact that people spend most of their forum time there is natural because they can get the latest updates for their apps.
you can't expect people to sit in the Q&A section, it's pointless. as joel said, you pass by, check if there's something you can solve, and move on.
Ok we all know firmware mods are popular, and we have been seeing many many questions about the sapphire/JF mods that would be better organized in a separate forum like xda-developers > Dream > Firmware Hacking & Modification
So place your vote above and post any comments/ideas you may have.
Don't see the need for it. Besides similar requests have been asked for before and shot down.
yeah i dont think its necessary either, plus mods have enough work on food on there plate, i think it looks messy because of the redundant threads
No, it's not needed But.... we need threads to be closed after a major release of a newer build
(ie H 5.03) and open a new thread. Thats what folks do in the WM rom threads elsewhere in this forum. Closing and locking thread but not deleting will keep them from growing to a gigantic size like the sapphire/magic rom port thread. But its up to the thread creator to do so...
Is it really that big of an endeavor to add a subforum for firmware mods?
ncoop23 said:
Is it really that big of an endeavor to add a subforum for firmware mods?
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I'd imagine not, but apparently moderators cannot make site changes. Only the administrator (Flar) can do that.
Meanwhile, many of the knowledgeable members (Don't see JF or Koush around much these days?) of the forum get tired of reading the same "omg i ruined my apps-to-sd" or "how i get haykuro install" and stop reading the forum. Win-win for everyone?
Not needed being there's only 4-5 of them out there...
If there was anything, I would say a sub-forum of the theme section for themes ONLY. No questions etc...
Please take this suggestion and make a new subforum for DREAM ANDROID ROMS and so on for other devices. Please move all ROM releases to that subforum and leave the development forum to the DEVS. Thanks
let me be clear... im not saying xda isnt doing their job. I believe that the popularity of the android dev platform requires the additional specific subforum in order to streamline development collaboration
I seconds this suggestion, or sticky the roms threads either would be better than the way it is now.
Yo I laughed my @ss off at this
I know its a suggestion... but honestly do you think the site will listen???
That's like posting a thread saying
"This websites wack and illegal, take it down or ill report it"
How did you expect the mods to react to this? Take it straight to hq!!
Lol the only way the would in fact do this
Is by making a poll or petetion
With a lot oh sigs
But then again that wouldn't work either
EDIT
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
jf4888 said:
Yo I laughed my @ss off at this
I know its a suggestion... but honestly do you think the site will listen???
That's like posting a thread saying
"This websites wack and illegal, take it down or ill report it"
How did you expect the mods to react to this? Take it straight to hq!!
Lol the only way the would in fact do this
Is by making a poll or petetion
With a lot oh sigs
But then again that wouldn't work either
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Who pissed in your cheerios ;-)
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
I like the idea... But, I'll be surprised if this suggestion is used.
1st - every Android device has the same setup. So, if they changed this for the G1/Dream then they would have to change it for every Android device currently listed and to be released.
2nd - After looking at other devices (other than Android) - many only have ROM development sub-forums (as they would be the same as the dev forum).
3rd - The develepment for the Dream/G1 is mainly for ROMs. The extra development going on is for "Android" - meaning generally for Android the operating system and NOT device specific.
A better suggestion would be for Xda to create a separate forum for "Android Development" that is NOT device specific! Then every app, program, OS application (OS as in Windows/Linux/Leopard/etc) could be included in the "Android development" forum and NOT in the Dream/Sapphire/Cliq/Droid/etc. forums.
The "Android Development" forum would be the one to which all the general Andoid development threads would be directed. There could be two sub-forums: Android OS Development, Android app and game development (as almost all apps/games would be made to work on all devices). I would leave the themes separate as they would mainly be device specific.
Then the "Dream-Android Development Forum" would be mainly for Dream/G1 ROMs or items specific to the Dream.
jf4888 said:
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
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You know call me crazy but this makes since to me.
alapapa said:
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
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Click to collapse
my problem is that we have this DREAM ANDROID DEVELOPMENT forum that is used to release ROMS, not develop them. If we had a forum to release them in, then end users wouldn't be asking q & a in the dev section. they could ask the q & a there... where they dl'ed the ROM from. it's just a suggestion, but i think it could ADD to DEVELOPMENT!!!
jf4888 said:
EDIT
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
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Click to collapse
That is just not practical from a moderation standpoint! Also, how do you "qualify" a dev? Is there a master database listing all the developers? What if someone learns to develop apps who previously was just a member - What would be the approval process to become a "dev?" I understand the developer's frustration with trying to get things DONE while all the non-devs bombard them with questions and clutter up the forum... But, I don't think the above is a very good solution. IT SOUNDS GOOD IN THEORY! It just won't be practical to implement.
Please don't take my comment the wrong way. I am NOT a dev (although I have purchased a lot of material to begin to learn and am planning on developing in the near future) - but, even I GET AGGRAVATED by all the clutter on the forum. I just don't think the above suggestion is a workable solution.
jaaronmoody said:
my problem is that we have this DREAM ANDROID DEVELOPMENT forum that is used to release ROMS, not develop them. If we had a forum to release them in, then end users wouldn't be asking q & a in the dev section. they could ask the q & a there... where they dl'ed the ROM from. it's just a suggestion, but i think it could ADD to DEVELOPMENT!!!
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I like your suggestion... Which is essentially that they add a ROM release sub-forum... ONLY, for released ROMS.
I still think my suggestion would be better. If they took my suggestion much of the general ANDROID clutter would be separated. All the general Andoid OS/app development clutter would be gone.
LEAVING this forum for Dream/G1 ROMS - as that would really be the only reason to be on the forum specific to the DREAM.
CURRENTLY - almost ALL the general (non device specific) Android dev's are working off of the Dream-Android development forum: 1st - because most people still have a Dream, 2nd - it has been around the longest, 3rd - that is where they are used to going and know that all the other devs go (more visibility for their posts).
If my suggestion was made - much of that would change. It would take the Mods awhile to keep moving the new posts to the new location... But, within a month everyone would be on track.
I think we're fighting windmills here, but it is a perfectly valid and reasonable suggestion. I happen to agree that the "development" thread has very little development discussion anymore. A good percentage of the development discussion takes place in PMs, Twitter, and other collaboration spaces, and thereby making any shared knowledge much more difficult to obtain.
If there were a ROM release section, it would sideline much of the noise that currently occupies this section.
Chinpokomon said:
I think we're fighting windmills here, but it is a perfectly valid and reasonable suggestion. I happen to agree that the "development" thread has very little development discussion anymore. A good percentage of the development discussion takes place in PMs, Twitter, and other collaboration spaces, and thereby making any shared knowledge much more difficult to obtain.
If there were a ROM release section, it would sideline much of the noise that currently occupies this section.
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Agreed. hopefully something works out
as i plan to get a new ANDROID soon... hopefully... i would love to see this implemented in current and FUTURE device forums
AndroidSPIN ROM Database provides this service
alapapa said:
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
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As alapapa said. There are dedicated databases on the internet that make finding the latest releases real easy. I run AndroidSPIN which is one such database and each ROM has links back to the specific forums on XDA. We also host all the ROM files providing a HIGH speed download of all your faves.
I consider us an add-on service to XDA by providing functionality XDA does not but also compliments XDA by linking back to all the relevant content here.
Obviously the database is only as good as the information that it contains. We now have additional members of the community assisting in keeping this data up to date but if you see a ROM that is not in the AndroidSPIN database, please let us know.
Thanks
Simon
simon, i support your website by putting it in my sig ...but I believe XDA needs it's own place
idea!!!!!
Use the search and search for [ROM] that might give you a better result just an idea search features is there ....use it? Or sticky a post with a link to a search for all [ROM] titles as they are supposed to be titled like that anyway... idk just my own $.02
I suggested this back when JF was releasing RC33 roms...no one listened then...no one will listen now.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
I suggested this back when JF was releasing RC33 roms...no one listened then...no one will listen now.
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it was a good idea then, and i think it's a good idea now
SimonNWalker said:
As alapapa said. There are dedicated databases on the internet that make finding the latest releases real easy. I run AndroidSPIN which is one such database and each ROM has links back to the specific forums on XDA. We also host all the ROM files providing a HIGH speed download of all your faves.
I consider us an add-on service to XDA by providing functionality XDA does not but also compliments XDA by linking back to all the relevant content here.
Obviously the database is only as good as the information that it contains. We now have additional members of the community assisting in keeping this data up to date but if you see a ROM that is not in the AndroidSPIN database please let us know.
Thanks
Simon
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I appreciate AndroidSPIN and think it provides a valuable service, but the problem is that it does absolutely nothing to curtail the fact that the development forum is drowning in end-user posts. It's nearly impossible to find any information here on actual development work because the focus is almost entirely on releases, flashing, and end-user troubleshooting.
Look at all the stickies in this forum, even. The closest you get to 'development' in any of the FAQs is how to set up ADB and maybe some minor theming information. I just went through the process of setting up my own AOSP build environment, and xda was virtually useless for any of it. In fact, I ended up having to document part of the process myself, and the thread related to that has long since been buried under a torrent of non-development topics.
ROMS and end-user topics need to be segregated out from development, or xda will remain absolutely useless for people interested in Android development.
EDIT:
Also, putting ROM releases and end-user topics in their own forum wouldn't replace sites like AndroidSPIN. They'll still be useful for figuring out what's what and what the latest releases are. It would just keep actual development topics from being buried because a new release hits and there's a flood of bug reports and troubleshooting posts.
I don't see how that changes the service AndroidSPIN and similar sites provide at all.
Just to emphasize how bad this problem has gotten, of the 20 threads on the first page of the development forum, as of this writing:
11 are ROM release threads.
2 are "how to flash your G1" threads
2 are "bricked G1" threads
2 are [MOD] threads
1 is related to installing Debian on the G1
1 is a thread about the Hero kernel, which is at least the third of these I've seen
1 is this thread
Where's the development?