Related
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
(edit) A wiki that's easier to edit and navigate, e.g., mediawiki, which would mean
More folks updating the wiki with the ability to edit subsections
More folks viewing the wiki with auto-created tables of contents
(edit)A single 'post your questions here' newbie thread to limit the amount of new threads created
(edit2)A thread or wiki entry linked at the top of every forum with proper forum etiquette.
(edit2) idea about restricting users according to post count removed
All of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
UPDATE 03-13-08
Thanks to Flar and the mods for pushing for new forums! Hopefully these changes, along with more member contributions, we will be able to fight back the redundant thread problem. I've noticed that quite a few senior members have taken a similar stance as I have with new users & redundant threads. I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, for all of you that may be new or have less post counts, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver, like someone who has flamed this thread
_Alex_ said:
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
Restrict new threads to members (30 posts), forcing junior members to reply to existing threads. If new threads continue to be a problem, increase the limit to senior member status (100 posts).
More folks updating the wiki
actual comments for wiki updates so folks know what's new(I'm guilty of not doing this too) or an actual what's new page.
Both of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
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Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. A big part of the problem is the refusal of some to read or search before posting. When they don't get an immediate answer in an existing thread they start a new one. Maybe the answer is to allow the number of daily posts to be restricted by member status, with senior members being unresticted and moving downward from there.
To bad you can't put all of the threads inside the new sticky. That way, to post a new thread, you had to go thru the new sticky. Other than that, the only option I can think of is to hunt the redundant thread poster down and dismember them slowly on live t.v. broadcasted only to XDA members.
Edit:
I personally vote for my second option.
Agree with both suggestions. Mods...any comments? I have not dealt with forum software before...are those restrictions able to be implemented with this forum?
I've always liked the idea of limiting new people from starting threads, but I don't think we can judge on number of posts. I think this will just end with people joining, throwing an extra 30 useless posts into the first threads they come across, then posting their question thread.
I've always liked the idea of making someone wait 24 hours between registering and posting AT ALL. This way, we can still help those people with a genuine problem fairly quickly (rather than making them wait a week) but still weed out those who ask questions that could be answered by 2 seconds of thinking or looking.
Just my 2 cents!
Great suggestions _Alex_. There should be a stew time for new forum members. A 30 post limit should do it because by then one should have learned a little bit at least.
And now that there's a Google search box near the top of the page HOPEFULLY that cuts down on redundant new post.
@kwickone - Yes, it's possible and quite easy at that.
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Perhaps a rethinking........................................
Okay, this is a common problem on here. Over and over -- endless threads on this subject. It cannot be solved with current technology.
Embrace the problem.
Sandwich method:
Commend them on their new purchase of the new phone they got. Great!
Then advise them to search. Read and learn.
Then Commend their enthusiasm for Any effort they show.
...
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
This forum has turned into a user manual / tech support.
sd73ta said:
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
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There already is a noob section...the problem is no one reads it!
I waited 3 months before my 1st post or flash. I shadowed the threads, followed the chefs at that time (Faria, Molski, Xelencin, Risidoro) and watched the results of people flashing their ROMs. I waited till all was clear before I flashed.
Nowadays, people are buying expensive devices and just jumping into deep water without knowing how to swim and the cry to the lifeguard for help.
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
dwny said:
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Maybe it is an idea to have it a bit like the "Facepunch forum" of GMOD. (for non gamer, it a HL2 mod forum) They had exactly the same problem only a little bit bigger then it is on this forum.
They solved it by some sort of rate system. Forum users can rate a post. If a user get a certain amount of negative points he is banned from the forum for 24 or something like that. You can also rate someone if he makes clever remarks or usefull contributions and rate him with a "thanks!"
This way people know they are being watched for stupid questions that are posted over and over again and search before they do something stupid. After all, saying stupid thing will cost you a time ban.
If you want to know exactly how it works. Register at the facepunch forum to check it out. It really does work. http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/
Shadowdh said:
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
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Click to collapse
Even from my rudimentary knowledge of PHP based forums such as XDA, that would be extremely prohibitive in terms of processing power. Context-sensitive searching (even cached) is very resource intensive, and even implementing it on the Kaiser section ONLY would probably bring the boards to an impressive crawl.
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This seems a bit extreme. I bought my Kaiser and spent two or three days reading the wiki, boards, and specific threads about the Tilt. Still, I had a few questions that weren't addressed by existing threads and needed to start at thread. I agree with Alex's idea that there should be a delay (or post count check) for starting a new THREAD, but certainly not posting in general.
Likewise, I'm beginning to toy with cooking my own ROMs, and what if I was interested in starting my own thread to announce its availability? Certainly I shouldn't be required to append it to an existing (and likely unrelated) thread?
To the OP's original concern, I don't think it's a terribly unique thing to XDA. I frequent many forums, and it happens everywhere, particularly those which address technology or relationships. Everyone seems to think that their issues are unique and that they won't be covered in an existing topic. Likewise, many people just aren't comfortable with reading technical specifications, instructions, or explanations. I have dozens of friends capable of READING manuals for the devices they own and getting exactly what they need, but they don't trust the accuracy of the information unless I tell it to them myself.
Reading a bunch of instructions and trusting they are accurate is much scarier than having someone explain it to you, even if they're just regurgitating information already contained in dozens of wikis, texts or posts. This is the primary reason we have TEACHERS; most people are capable of reading everything they need to know, but prefer to have someone relate it to them in a way which caters to their understanding.
Long-winded thoughts aside, I agree with Alex's suggestions in their entirety.
i dont agree with the whole 30 or 100 postsbefore starting a tread but i do agree with the fact that it's annoying to read the same stuff over and over again people comming in with the same problems and questions but there are also people like myself that are longtime members but actually do read alot of posts so that they dont need to ask anything and dont make the 100 or so recommended post before starting a new tread..
but thats my opinion
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help.
Assuming I actually did search for my answer and wasn't able to find anything, where would I turn? If I can't start a new thread, I would have no choice but to hijack a different thread. That would probably upset the people involved in that thread more than creating a new thread that they could easily ignore.
How about the new thread button routing through search? So that when you entered the title, it did the search, and at the bottom of the search results there was the button that actually started a new thread.
Steal Google's Idea
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site.
?????
...
Jewcookie said:
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
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It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
tdsuen said:
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help
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Click to collapse
That's where the problem lies.
How many new issues are there actually? Most of the issues are when people have a problem with a specific ROM. What's been happening lately is that the Rom threads are huge now and to gain attention to their inquiry, people are starting new threads. If you take a look at who's doing this, it's members under 3 months
(Just my opinion & observation)
zcink said:
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site. ?????
Okay still Drunk at the time.
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LOL... It's great to see a drunk guy contributing to this thread as it adds a touch of humor to the entire situation
FWIW, one of the new members decided to post their opinion about our frustration venting over in the regular Kaiser forum (which I read very infrequently because I know that's going to be filled with support requests).
I'm wondering how many new users will chime in on that thread...
arrogance and elitism (were all here for the same thing)
Why not add a few more Mod's and just delete them (threads or posts) quick and easy? Have an automated response to the person that: "the answers you needed were already posted in another thread".
dwny said:
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree that there needs to be some forum etiquette that needs to be followed, especially regarding new threads. The question is how we go about enforcing it...
Hopefully the mods/admin will read this thread and take our suggestions to heart.
Sober
Okay
A totally Sane -- Sober guy -- was just joking bout the drunk part.
A Huge Search Engine
You have to go thru the search Engine box to enter this site.
You can't miss.
Anyone who does not search will be Shot On site and put into the Ovens!
Hi there,
I have been reaidng this thread since I bougth my HTC touch and it has been great help.
Before I start talkign about the issues I would like to thank everyone in here for all the hard work towards the community and all the work done by the moderators to make sure the forum is a clean and easy place to navigate in.
now on the issues .
I noticed lately that since a few users got promoted to moderator all I see is padlocks on half of the threads.
I am not against closing threads that already have an answer in the forum "by providing a link if possible" but it is more about closing the normal questions.
I have seen many threads benig closed straight away at the first answer and not giving anyone here the chance to add something or give an alternative answer or even say that the answer did not work????
The second behaviour I notcied was replying to a post froma moderator by actually editing the post itself and adding an answer on the bottom of it rather than replying like everyone else.
I would like to read other users opinion about this and have a great day.
i don't think there is anything wrong with closing the unnecessary threads. most of the threads which were closed were related to someone flashing a wrong ROM on his elf/elfin or not using the correct USPL. there are already a few threads for these kind of issues, so why create new threads? it has been said many times to reply in the existing threads, but most of the people don't follow this. i've,personally, tried to help of those people stuck with these kind of problems even though i could have told them to read. and once their problem is solved, there is no need for such type of NEW threads, so mods chose to close them.
as far as editing the posts, i think mods are only trying to help us to keep the forums as clean as possible so that a new user can read only the most relevant information without having to read 10-15 pages.
Although Aman (htctouchp, another dedicated-to-XDA & talented member) has explained to you about the policy followed especially in Elf forums, I would like to elaborate on a few things though
I presume you were refering to my posts
I agree with what you feeling brother. Even I used to feel the same when I had just started on XDA. I used to open new threads asking questions or trying to take guidance from the experts here, forgetting that some day I will have to take the responsibility of ensuring that the forum remains clean
Talking about clean thread, we dont close or delete threads because we despise new members (whom I dont prefer to refer as *Noobs*) (definately not that we do) but because we want everyone to reach the relevant informative easily without having to go through 150 pages of the forum. This Elf / ElfIn forums are being moderated largely by me and Noonski (although he is currently busy cooking wonderful ROMs and buying new shoes )
Also at the same time if you have observed, the threads are closed and left in the forum (not deleted) because somewhere a link to answer for the question which is asked is posted in that thread or some information has been provided by certain member. The thread is closed after this to avoid further crowding in that thread and the new members having to go through more pages trying to find the answers they seek and finally opening a new thread again for the same question
Same reason why a post is edited so when a new member views the thread, he can find the question with the answer itself
Hope I have been clear in communicating the reasons and we all do appreciate the fact that dedicated members like yourself do come here on XDA to find answers and guidance from the experts
Now I will close this thread once you are through reading this (I'm kidding) But I would certainly edit the subject of the thread to something moderate that will surely make members come in and post their views
Well i think you have a valid point.
But if you know the usual behaviour of most users it's laziness.
I can only say that when i start a thread to do Data Collection and compression it only leaves an easier to read thread.
This has only happened on one thread where it was mentioned in the first post.
Yes it can be seen as misuse of power which it isn't.
A user can always reedit his or her post, and no one has done so.
Truth is that i would not be able to if i was not a mod there would not be a way to get a compact and information related thread, so that does make it a very valid point you make.
But a user does get the immediate answer to the question instead of getting it posts after that. I then try to delete only my own posts.
All i'm doing is try to make a thread as easy as possible to read instead of going through pages and not seeing the answer, then ask about it and get the answer that it has already been handled in the thread.
I could go back to the answer 4 questions in one post, but long posts also have the effect that people don't want to read them.
This is definetly worth the discussion.
But a viewpoint most not be forgotten that it is mainly been done to make things easier.
It's long threads that make users start new threads about the same thing.
See? This is the reason why we would want the forums to be clean. This is already discussed in the stickies just above their new threads (which are gonna see the padlocks soon)
htc update
6.1
Elf0100: cid=00 > ruu:error294
How to remove the bottom bar in today screen?
NEED HELP
I agree with the mods, but I do fell some kind or something is missing. maybe I'm not an average user, but I do enjoy reading 15-20 pages of information, searching something like crazy is my second hobby. Sometimes laugh or mad if peoples asking question that already known. To sum up , when i was a noob.... (I'm proud to say that, cause now I'm half NOOB ) I learn a lot by reading pageS to pageS, I like this forum alot by clicking that seach button many2 times
Hi everyone,
Thanks fot he replies and I need to mention something.
I think the forum is a lot cleaner and easier to read since the cleaning started and I agree with probabaly "and this is personal opinion obviously" with %95 of the thraeds closed especially when the answer exists and is easy to find.
Ah...I forgot to say thanks for the mod that renamed my thread as it reflects more what I wanted to talk about and get users involced in.
Basically my main point is more about having different opinions and views on the subet especially when a person comes along and ask how to fix a certain issue then the post should be left open even if the answer has been provided as the same thread might revive after a year or more where another person would look for the answer - find it - and then it probably won't work due to obscur reasons or probably just because it is a newer build - then the person will just post on that same thread rather than open a new one.
By the way ababrekar I did not refer to you at all in what I said and I generally don't read who edited or closed what.
I used to be a mod myself in a similar forum "tech oriented" and I know it is not easy task and you are not paid for what you do so again thank you for all you do to the community.
I will stop here for the moment and wait and see what other members think about this - there arn't many interested in this
K.
Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice
ababrekar said:
Not many interested parties to keep this thread alive
Kar brother, can I close this thread now? You advice
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Click to collapse
No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)
Noonski said:
No keep it alive definitly.
You know that not everyone goes to page two or three of the forum, and it needed a little bump.
It gives people a good platform to express themselves in the good way that kar did.
But maybe kar is a sister? (no pun intended)
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Click to collapse
Just posted something that makes the thread come back to page 1 Even I'm not intending to close this one. First I thought it would create fights but turned out interesting thread
Kar200 is definately a borther ... otherwise if you want to close this post I don't see any problem with this and I thought more people probably would have expressed their thoughts about the question but apparently everyone "including me" is more interested in knowing what new rom has been cooked for them so they can try it .
i have kept a close look on this thread for a while. and my opinion is this thread be kept for sometime. not much has been expressed here by other members. but i see this is one of a kind thread in the elf forum. and it gives an opportunity to express concern and at the same time to show appreciation.
thankx kar200 and all others in this thread. lets work out any concerns we have over the elf forum in this single thread
To post or not to post?
While i do agree, that the forum needs to be clean and its users repsecting the rules etc.... human nature as Noonski pointed out is laziness! so there will always be threads being opened. I think that most junior members will fall into this catergory (and this is NOT a dig at them but merely an observation ) but can be to a certain degree understandable/acceptable. Would you agree? If, however this is done by people who have been around for some time, then by all means close the thread and flame the user - they should know better.
As a thought, maybe some guidlines from the Mods here (Ameet and Noonski) re how long a 'repeated' thread will be kept open?
From a personal perspective, i have never needed to open a thread or even post that often specifically because i have always found what i needed from reading.... (which i kinda enjoy silly me)
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread
Noonski said:
I Am Cornelio, Need Dippy For My BungHole.
Where you been Biffert, enjoyed your vacation?
This has only happened on a specific Beta Thread
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I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not
Biffert said:
I know, but it was more of a big picture perspective on the matter Ive been reading the thread as well and saw the request for some opinions so I thought, why not
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I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself
Noonski said:
I'm just to excited because i just ordered My Pro.
Gotta run Print and sign the contract.
But still Where you been?
Do tell or i'll fill it in myself
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Click to collapse
Ive been finishing school and landed a job as a software engineer/consultant (And vacation ofcourse - Poland and Tsjech republic)
No Pro for me yet, still playing with my Touch (cant wait for the new Surface btw) and Kaiser
So its all good here
Edit: Bit of topic here, sorry bout that.
trashing threads too early create confusion!!!
Biffert said:
I think for someone new to the scene and first coming here, it can be quite overwhelming. There is tons of information available, but where do you start? So from that perspective I can understand why someone would start a new thread. On the other hand, looking at myself when I first came here... all I did was dig through the piles of information just reading, not looking for something specific but just gathering as much info on any subject as I could.
As for the thread closing and modifying posts. The closing of threads depends on whats going on in the thread. Closing a thread on the first available answer can leave some users without a clue because the given answer wont work for them, and the cant reply on the thread to continue asking. Which can be a missed opportunity to add more useful data to the forums if someone has a different solution to the problem.
Modding the answer into the posters question can lead to some confusion if you ask me Only a mod has the uberpower to edit a users post, so if there is a mod nearby that had a good comment you have to look at your own posts, but you also have to look at the end of the thread to see if someone posted usefulness in case your post was not modified (hihi MODified ).
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EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!
ayyu3m said:
EXACTLY!
even if an answer has been already given...a thread shudnt be closed so early. cos the user has to check and then give feedback on whether it has worked or not.
i respect the work of the mods...but somehow i cant fully support the idea of kabooming threads when a single answer or a re-directing link to an answer has been given. also note that, a new user tries to follow the thread he has created and which HAS the answers given mainly by other members....so when the user looks back...the help given or the helpful posts made in that thread is also missing. this creates confusion. and the end result....new threads too. at a point where closing a thread is justified is okay...but trashing a thread...wud and WILL only create confusion and misleading guidance. I hope this sentence is fully understood and looked into.
So, in my opinion, this does hinder what we are ALL here to do. To help out so called noobs!!!! This is finally what made me speak out here, cos i have witnessed a few cases, where some users has been lost into the advent of search button!
WHEW! Finally i hope i have shed some light on this debate too.
respect and peace to all members!
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This definitely goes for the Elf Rom Development thread now.
It's already good and cleaned.
I did notice that i do carry over the policy from a few other threads.
I'm all over the place, and at development a thread is fairly quickly moved if it does not belong there.
You should see how many reported posts come into my mailinbox.
The funny thing is that actually the hardcore cleaning stopped, just at the moment this thread got started.
So it now mostly is focused on going through old threads and going through their importance.
So for a while (and still) we have to be very straight forward.
Just look at the Diamond Forum with 845 Threads, and it's only been out for a short while. So over there there really is a now mercy policy that most mods agree on at the moment.
So the policy used there does not apply to the touch thread (not by a long shot).
A you can imagine how easily you start applying these rules.
I heard one user say "It's not a democracy here" in defense of the mods.
Truth is that it is a bit grayish on that matter, Most reported posts are submitted by users. (not the matter in ELF Forums).
So i can say that in the case of ELF forum i'll be mostly going through the very old posts and do some data compression if need be.
Ok we all know firmware mods are popular, and we have been seeing many many questions about the sapphire/JF mods that would be better organized in a separate forum like xda-developers > Dream > Firmware Hacking & Modification
So place your vote above and post any comments/ideas you may have.
Don't see the need for it. Besides similar requests have been asked for before and shot down.
yeah i dont think its necessary either, plus mods have enough work on food on there plate, i think it looks messy because of the redundant threads
No, it's not needed But.... we need threads to be closed after a major release of a newer build
(ie H 5.03) and open a new thread. Thats what folks do in the WM rom threads elsewhere in this forum. Closing and locking thread but not deleting will keep them from growing to a gigantic size like the sapphire/magic rom port thread. But its up to the thread creator to do so...
Is it really that big of an endeavor to add a subforum for firmware mods?
ncoop23 said:
Is it really that big of an endeavor to add a subforum for firmware mods?
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I'd imagine not, but apparently moderators cannot make site changes. Only the administrator (Flar) can do that.
Meanwhile, many of the knowledgeable members (Don't see JF or Koush around much these days?) of the forum get tired of reading the same "omg i ruined my apps-to-sd" or "how i get haykuro install" and stop reading the forum. Win-win for everyone?
Not needed being there's only 4-5 of them out there...
If there was anything, I would say a sub-forum of the theme section for themes ONLY. No questions etc...
Please take this suggestion and make a new subforum for DREAM ANDROID ROMS and so on for other devices. Please move all ROM releases to that subforum and leave the development forum to the DEVS. Thanks
let me be clear... im not saying xda isnt doing their job. I believe that the popularity of the android dev platform requires the additional specific subforum in order to streamline development collaboration
I seconds this suggestion, or sticky the roms threads either would be better than the way it is now.
Yo I laughed my @ss off at this
I know its a suggestion... but honestly do you think the site will listen???
That's like posting a thread saying
"This websites wack and illegal, take it down or ill report it"
How did you expect the mods to react to this? Take it straight to hq!!
Lol the only way the would in fact do this
Is by making a poll or petetion
With a lot oh sigs
But then again that wouldn't work either
EDIT
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
jf4888 said:
Yo I laughed my @ss off at this
I know its a suggestion... but honestly do you think the site will listen???
That's like posting a thread saying
"This websites wack and illegal, take it down or ill report it"
How did you expect the mods to react to this? Take it straight to hq!!
Lol the only way the would in fact do this
Is by making a poll or petetion
With a lot oh sigs
But then again that wouldn't work either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who pissed in your cheerios ;-)
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
I like the idea... But, I'll be surprised if this suggestion is used.
1st - every Android device has the same setup. So, if they changed this for the G1/Dream then they would have to change it for every Android device currently listed and to be released.
2nd - After looking at other devices (other than Android) - many only have ROM development sub-forums (as they would be the same as the dev forum).
3rd - The develepment for the Dream/G1 is mainly for ROMs. The extra development going on is for "Android" - meaning generally for Android the operating system and NOT device specific.
A better suggestion would be for Xda to create a separate forum for "Android Development" that is NOT device specific! Then every app, program, OS application (OS as in Windows/Linux/Leopard/etc) could be included in the "Android development" forum and NOT in the Dream/Sapphire/Cliq/Droid/etc. forums.
The "Android Development" forum would be the one to which all the general Andoid development threads would be directed. There could be two sub-forums: Android OS Development, Android app and game development (as almost all apps/games would be made to work on all devices). I would leave the themes separate as they would mainly be device specific.
Then the "Dream-Android Development Forum" would be mainly for Dream/G1 ROMs or items specific to the Dream.
jf4888 said:
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know call me crazy but this makes since to me.
alapapa said:
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my problem is that we have this DREAM ANDROID DEVELOPMENT forum that is used to release ROMS, not develop them. If we had a forum to release them in, then end users wouldn't be asking q & a in the dev section. they could ask the q & a there... where they dl'ed the ROM from. it's just a suggestion, but i think it could ADD to DEVELOPMENT!!!
jf4888 said:
EDIT
I just thought a way they could controll so many pointless ROMS as in themed or barely edited hero or something
They could change everything
There would be dev account and then there would be member account
for example dev accounts are constanly monitered for activity and checked over from time to time to see if they really are devs or not
Member account have certain permission in certain forums
So if a member account came in dream development
They can't post a new thread, however they can reply to post.......leaving the forums clean with no "help me" post etc...
Just a thought pretty smart ehh??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is just not practical from a moderation standpoint! Also, how do you "qualify" a dev? Is there a master database listing all the developers? What if someone learns to develop apps who previously was just a member - What would be the approval process to become a "dev?" I understand the developer's frustration with trying to get things DONE while all the non-devs bombard them with questions and clutter up the forum... But, I don't think the above is a very good solution. IT SOUNDS GOOD IN THEORY! It just won't be practical to implement.
Please don't take my comment the wrong way. I am NOT a dev (although I have purchased a lot of material to begin to learn and am planning on developing in the near future) - but, even I GET AGGRAVATED by all the clutter on the forum. I just don't think the above suggestion is a workable solution.
jaaronmoody said:
my problem is that we have this DREAM ANDROID DEVELOPMENT forum that is used to release ROMS, not develop them. If we had a forum to release them in, then end users wouldn't be asking q & a in the dev section. they could ask the q & a there... where they dl'ed the ROM from. it's just a suggestion, but i think it could ADD to DEVELOPMENT!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like your suggestion... Which is essentially that they add a ROM release sub-forum... ONLY, for released ROMS.
I still think my suggestion would be better. If they took my suggestion much of the general ANDROID clutter would be separated. All the general Andoid OS/app development clutter would be gone.
LEAVING this forum for Dream/G1 ROMS - as that would really be the only reason to be on the forum specific to the DREAM.
CURRENTLY - almost ALL the general (non device specific) Android dev's are working off of the Dream-Android development forum: 1st - because most people still have a Dream, 2nd - it has been around the longest, 3rd - that is where they are used to going and know that all the other devs go (more visibility for their posts).
If my suggestion was made - much of that would change. It would take the Mods awhile to keep moving the new posts to the new location... But, within a month everyone would be on track.
I think we're fighting windmills here, but it is a perfectly valid and reasonable suggestion. I happen to agree that the "development" thread has very little development discussion anymore. A good percentage of the development discussion takes place in PMs, Twitter, and other collaboration spaces, and thereby making any shared knowledge much more difficult to obtain.
If there were a ROM release section, it would sideline much of the noise that currently occupies this section.
Chinpokomon said:
I think we're fighting windmills here, but it is a perfectly valid and reasonable suggestion. I happen to agree that the "development" thread has very little development discussion anymore. A good percentage of the development discussion takes place in PMs, Twitter, and other collaboration spaces, and thereby making any shared knowledge much more difficult to obtain.
If there were a ROM release section, it would sideline much of the noise that currently occupies this section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. hopefully something works out
as i plan to get a new ANDROID soon... hopefully... i would love to see this implemented in current and FUTURE device forums
AndroidSPIN ROM Database provides this service
alapapa said:
no way...there are dedicated ROM databases that do what you're looking for. this is a broader scoped development board.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As alapapa said. There are dedicated databases on the internet that make finding the latest releases real easy. I run AndroidSPIN which is one such database and each ROM has links back to the specific forums on XDA. We also host all the ROM files providing a HIGH speed download of all your faves.
I consider us an add-on service to XDA by providing functionality XDA does not but also compliments XDA by linking back to all the relevant content here.
Obviously the database is only as good as the information that it contains. We now have additional members of the community assisting in keeping this data up to date but if you see a ROM that is not in the AndroidSPIN database, please let us know.
Thanks
Simon
simon, i support your website by putting it in my sig ...but I believe XDA needs it's own place
idea!!!!!
Use the search and search for [ROM] that might give you a better result just an idea search features is there ....use it? Or sticky a post with a link to a search for all [ROM] titles as they are supposed to be titled like that anyway... idk just my own $.02
I suggested this back when JF was releasing RC33 roms...no one listened then...no one will listen now.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
I suggested this back when JF was releasing RC33 roms...no one listened then...no one will listen now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was a good idea then, and i think it's a good idea now
SimonNWalker said:
As alapapa said. There are dedicated databases on the internet that make finding the latest releases real easy. I run AndroidSPIN which is one such database and each ROM has links back to the specific forums on XDA. We also host all the ROM files providing a HIGH speed download of all your faves.
I consider us an add-on service to XDA by providing functionality XDA does not but also compliments XDA by linking back to all the relevant content here.
Obviously the database is only as good as the information that it contains. We now have additional members of the community assisting in keeping this data up to date but if you see a ROM that is not in the AndroidSPIN database please let us know.
Thanks
Simon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate AndroidSPIN and think it provides a valuable service, but the problem is that it does absolutely nothing to curtail the fact that the development forum is drowning in end-user posts. It's nearly impossible to find any information here on actual development work because the focus is almost entirely on releases, flashing, and end-user troubleshooting.
Look at all the stickies in this forum, even. The closest you get to 'development' in any of the FAQs is how to set up ADB and maybe some minor theming information. I just went through the process of setting up my own AOSP build environment, and xda was virtually useless for any of it. In fact, I ended up having to document part of the process myself, and the thread related to that has long since been buried under a torrent of non-development topics.
ROMS and end-user topics need to be segregated out from development, or xda will remain absolutely useless for people interested in Android development.
EDIT:
Also, putting ROM releases and end-user topics in their own forum wouldn't replace sites like AndroidSPIN. They'll still be useful for figuring out what's what and what the latest releases are. It would just keep actual development topics from being buried because a new release hits and there's a flood of bug reports and troubleshooting posts.
I don't see how that changes the service AndroidSPIN and similar sites provide at all.
Just to emphasize how bad this problem has gotten, of the 20 threads on the first page of the development forum, as of this writing:
11 are ROM release threads.
2 are "how to flash your G1" threads
2 are "bricked G1" threads
2 are [MOD] threads
1 is related to installing Debian on the G1
1 is a thread about the Hero kernel, which is at least the third of these I've seen
1 is this thread
Where's the development?
I'll get straight to the point....
Despite stickys and forum announcements most of us are still finding ourselves becoming terribly, terribly vexed at the amount of [Q]'s cluttering the dev section...
Therefore, from now on, if you do not follow the rules outlined below, you will be infracted. Break them again and you may find yourself unable to post anything at all on any forum!!
[Q]Surely thats a bit harsh aint it??
[A]Not really....
We've tried to be nice about it but that clearly doesnt work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you cannot read and abide by the simple rules in this sticky then I dont know how you're going to manage to hack your device without running into trouble.
The Dev section is NOT for asking questions.....
The Dev section is NOT for general topics..........
All threads posted MUST be prefixed with a description of the thread, [ROM] / [Kernel] etc etc.....*
*(Not planning on being particuarly strict on this. You guys (the devs), know how to title a thread.... just a pointer for new devs.)
Basically, unless your thread is to actually release something or discuss something of a very technical and n00b unfriendly nature, it doesnt belong here!
Pretty simple really.....
If you see something that shouldnt be here then PM me....
I will try to check in as reguarly as I can but I have a few sections to keep an eye on and believe it or not, a life outside XDA
Yes thats right, there is life outside XDA
I moved all the stock Roms to the General Section in an effort to keep the Development forums for Developing roms.
zelendel said:
I moved all the stock Roms to the General Section in an effort to keep the Development forums for Developing roms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issues I see with this is 1: it causes fragmentation on where to find ROMs and 2: if the person who put out the ROM decides at a later date to start customizing beyond stock, it is then technically in the wrong section unless they create a new thread in development
beerbaronstatic said:
The issues I see with this is 1: it causes fragmentation on where to find ROMs and 2: if the person who put out the ROM decides at a later date to start customizing beyond stock, it is then technically in the wrong section unless they create a new thread in development
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Click to collapse
I will be making a sticky with the links to the stock roms. And sense there really shouldnt be more then one thread for the stock release it will keep things a little cleaner. If they decide to make a custom rom off the stock then they are free to make a thread in the Dev section for the custom rom and its Development. This is the way it is done in the Captivate section that I came from and a few other devices and has worked out pretty well in keeping only Dev related things in the Dev section
zelendel said:
I will be making a sticky with the links to the stock roms. And sense there really shouldnt be more then one thread for the stock release it will keep things a little cleaner. If they decide to make a custom rom off the stock then they are free to make a thread in the Dev section for the custom rom and its Development. This is the way it is done in the Captivate section that I came from and a few other devices and has worked out pretty well in keeping only Dev related things in the Dev section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds good, thanks for the reply!
Ok guys I am in the process of making Q&A threads in the Q&A section for each rom. Please use these before opening new threads. In an effort to clean up the forums I will be removing out dated threads and cleaning things up. I am hoping this will reduce the clutter in the threads and will help new people find answers easier.
Oh I am so confused. LOL. You are the boss zelendel and I don't want to cross you anymore. So now we have QnA for each ROM, can we not post anything anymore in the Dev's thread? Most everything posted in a Dev's thread is a question of some sort. Can you add this, why did you do this, can you fix this, is this happening to anybody else, and so on.....
What are we allowed to post there? I mean it is so different than almost every other section here on the forum. Cross posters from other sections will continue to post as they always have. I don't want to come across as a dumb butt as I am not. I happen to be an admin and mod on 8 other phone forums. But not developer forums which this is. But to find a ROM I have to look in 2 different sections and ask questions about it in a third. How is this cleaning anything up?
The Q&A threads are for general ROM related questions like how do i flash this, ect. It also saves the kids from having to go around deleting the threads that are used to by pass the 10 post rule just so they can post a question in the dev section. The main ROM threads are for technical discussions. You can still post there but this will remove a lot of the junk from the dev threads.
I use this set up in the captivate section and it was well recieved by users and Developers alike. It kept the dev threads cleaned up and people still could ask their questions without needing 10 posts.
This is test run 2 of this set up. If it works out again then it just may become the norm. One thread to get the ROM and one for questions.
zelendel said:
The Q&A threads are for general ROM related questions like how do i flash this, ect. It also saves the kids from having to go around deleting the threads that are used to by pass the 10 post rule just so they can post a question in the dev section. The main ROM threads are for technical discussions. You can still post there but this will remove a lot of the junk from the dev threads.
I use this set up in the captivate section and it was well recieved by users and Developers alike. It kept the dev threads cleaned up and people still could ask their questions without needing 10 posts.
This is test run 2 of this set up. If it works out again then it just may become the norm. One thread to get the ROM and one for questions.
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Click to collapse
Sorry dude but that is not organized at all the post will get lost you should keep all ROM's and posting related to said ROM together. And I was on the Captivate forum didn't work there either IMO..
dpmurphy81 said:
Sorry dude but that is not organized at all the post will get lost you should keep all ROM's and posting related to said ROM together. And I was on the Captivate forum didn't work there either IMO..
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I have to agree this does not seem to make much sense. Instead of keeping all the rom threads together they will now be dispersed among the 4 sub-forums?
Why is the date in not American? I just had to point that out.
Was this really a problem that needed fixing? While yes there were a lot of stupid questions at times, the open discussion about the ROM performance, tips, tweaks, and problems leads to many people who aren't in the development process sharing information with each other and the developers, and leads to everyone being able to help each other figure things out. Now it just seems like people are going to be confused as to where to talk about the ROM, as all the information will be fragmented now. It would make more sense to just rename the Dev section to something like "ROM Development And Discussion" and create a new section with limited access threads that would be like a ROM library and newsletter. That way, one could go there to get the latest downloads and information, and still be able to get help and discuss the ROM in the same place they always have. Of course, this is just my opinion, did you ever think about starting a discussion with everyone to get ideas and opinions on how things should be sorted?
And IMHO, phrases like "Iron Fist" and "only gonna ask once" aren't a quality examples of good people skills. Maybe something like, I dunno, asking someone to make changes to facilitate the move to a new format might work better.
Thank you this was a helpful post, im use to ROM with windows phone new to android