I've been seeing a lot of hostility & berating in the Kaiser forum lately. A lot of it stems from noobies with posts about things that have already been resolved, or about fearfully wanting to flash a new ROM.
A lot of the people with the really advanced CE knowledge are always busy & subtracting from their time affects all of us because they have less time to innovate & create.
I was thinking what if we created a new Sub-forum for Noobies with issues or with a desire to flash, but not the knowledge. We could have a few people there as Mods or some sort of assistant mod as a clearing house for the noobies that are coming everyday.
This could be a introduction to XDA & a way for the Noobie to learn good community principles & basic beginer knowledge. Learn how to post, search & where & how to find the information they need. A way to break them in, with a few patient people helping & guiding them.
If there were more serious issues you would then only have one or two persons bugging everyone else, (& the gods like Oli, Jocky, Dutty, Chainfire, & all the others I'm forgeting) instead of every noobie with the same question every day.
I am up for doing something like this, I've learned a lot here, & I'm sure one or two others would also be willing to give some of their time to make this place better.
With the tools available through IM & File Sharing thru MSN Messenger, I think we could cut the number of duplicate posts, & flame responses in half easily making it easier for everyone to find the information they need.
What do you think?
1. Is a noobie flashing & problem sub-forum a good idea?
2. Are you willing to help out & give back?
Yes and Yes
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
That won't fix the problem. Why? The n00bs that post repeatedly answered questions don't read...and if they don't read then they'll post in the wrong forum because they "didn't know any better"...
This comes back to the same thing I've said all along...you can't fix stupid. Yes, we were all n00bs at one point. In many ways we will always be n00bs because tech changes so fast. But the majority of us take the time to read and research a bit to make sure the question hasn't been asked or to make sure we have all the information we need before embarking on the addictive ride of ROM Flashing. The ones that aren't willing to do that will most likely not bother asking questions in the n00b forum...they'll just post away in the Upgrading forum without a care in the world.
I understand the frustration with seeing so many of us lose it and unleash the fury of a thousand flames upon the unsuspecting n00b...and I apologize for my part in that...sorta...because I think they do deserve to have their brains bashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick for not reading...
Agree with jarek91, can't fix stupid, just have to hope that they evolve quick enough to not be a consistent nuisance or hope they end up on the darwin awards email.
well, if we keep ignoring, soon, we'll get tire and stop coming here because the forum is flooded w/ noob questions (those questions have been answered numerous of time). They start the question with "I've searched, but could NOT find anything" eventhough the answer is in the stickies just above their questions.
BTW, before you criticize me, GSLEON3, or anyone for supporting the new sub forum for newbie, remember that, this forums is xda-developers, we develop and share knowledge. We welcome noob, but dont want to spend too much time with noob questions (most of the time I ignore )
xultar said:
Every forum goes through this crap whenever a new flashing starts. Just realise that you were a noob once and get over it.
Just ignore noob posts if you don't want to help them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I DO REALIZE THAT! I'm talking about centralizing it & am willing to help. I don't think that this is part of "Every Forum", this is the Kaiser Forum & includes the best & brightest from XDA. So why not make it a different forum, set it apart from the others & make it a better community through helping others. I think this would not only help the noobie, but everyone as a whole would benefit because the upgrading forum would be less cluttered making the search function actually usable to the new guy that doesn't undestand how to narrow his searches.
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
GSLEON3 said:
I understand about not reading, but they'd learn quickly if they see they only get answers if they go to the big bold "NOOBIES START HERE" forum. Especially if there's a sticky that says "Your post WILL be DELETED unless".
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Click to collapse
There was a stickie?
Which is exactly how that would be met. (So I'm a pessimist...)
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
met3ora said:
We've all asked "n00b" questions, and we should be allowed to do so. If you make a forum called "n00b questions" the same people who don't read the stickies will STILL post in the main forum, and say they didn't see the "n00b questions" forum.
It's unavoidable, and the best thing we can do is help the people who ask these questions by telling them to search, but also providing them the answer, so that they learn and get their answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still ask dumb questions from time to time. My intent is not to slam the new guy, quite the opposite actually. I'm talking about a sub-forum where they can find the answer & a little support to some of the most common questions & issues that arise when entering the world of Flashing & Upgrading.
A place where a few willing people can hook up with the new comer & use tools klike IM & filesharing to walk the new guy through flashing & problem solving, kind of hands on instruction where you can walk the timid newcomer through his issues while using the tools to show him, through his own action, how to figure things out. Again, a sort of less advanced clearing house of sorts. Not a place of punishment for being new, but more of a "Welcome to XDA, figuring this stuff out can be fun & exciting, let me show you how" type of a place.
I like the noobie, & I really like the noobie that has a "I think my phone is bricked" challenge. I just think it would be a nice touch to have a place for the new guy to go where he could not just find the answers, but the reasoning behind them.
I also know that many don't read the stickies, but people do read the forum headers, the name of the forum & sub-forum, & if they saw "This is the place to get answers about how to flash & fix flash issues, that is where he's gonna go. Everybody else has been here long enough to know that if they have a major contribution, where it should be posted.
It would be like tiered service, most noobie problems are similar & can be handled there, if something more advanced pops up, or a bug detemined to affect many, then the mod or admin bumps it up to the next level.
Oh, & mcmexican you think everyone's an idiot
Maybe this is material for a new thread, but...
I think we should use a new wiki.
1. The wiki software used here is pretty bad.
2. The wiki here takes up bandwidth.
Using something like wetpaint.com (there are many others) provides a place that's different from here, using someone else's bandwidth.
Also, they have easier-to-edit wiki's. I think the more attractive, organized, and navigable the wiki is, the less newbie problems we'll have.
nevermind...
I think the subforum sounds like an excellent idea. I'm not nearly an expert but have done some flashing and so on and would gladly help out if I have the time. Only problem as I can see is that it will be hard to draw the line between the "noob forum" and the regular one.
i am trying for ten minutes to put my thoughts into words...English is not my native language. i hope i am gonna be able to make myself understood...
here is how to do it:
1. create something like a gate or tunnel where newbies have to go through. some thing, where they cant right away post something. they can read.
and if they want to post a tread, they have to go through some kind of selection menu or so. just like on ebay when you want to sell something.
so lets say someone wants to post a tread, there is a selection of main toppings they have to go through. and so on. till they get automatically redirected to the answer of what they were going to ask in the first place...
they are forced to go through some kind of multiple choice thing...
2. i think its super annoying when someone like dutty brings out a new ROM and you want to read through it, to find out what might be wrong with it, just to read a million people saying: cool man, thanks dude blablabla.
don't get me wrong. i love his ROMs. but i should sent him a pm or create a poll thing so people vote on how much they like it. his treads reach easily 2000 replies. 1900 are thank you notes...
thanks dutty,
georgios
I agree. The same people not searching the forums, nor reading stickies, the Wiki, or any FAQ's will post in the regular forums anyway. I think when you get some of these people new to the forum there is so much information they get overwhelmed and just ask in the first place they find.
In another forum I'm a member of we have people asking Verizon questions in the AT&T forum, people asking about CDMA phones in the GSM forum, and such. We really divided it up... there are separate forums for each carrier, and forums for each of the major device manufacturers, then there's the Motorola forum with the Razr subfourm, and then there's the CDMA models and GSM model subforums under that. The vague questions still come... "I want to hack my phone, how do I do that???" When you finally get them to reply back with the model and carrier they have they have almost always posted in the wrong forum.
I guess what I'm saying is that it sounds like a good idea, but the problem will still be there, and seem even worse, because those that post first and read the FAQ's later (If at all) will be posting in the main forum anyway.
-Jay
I am a brand new guy to the board and have only had my Tilt little over a week and have really enjoyed testing and learning all this stuff that a ton of you guys have already mastered. I like the idea of giving us new guys a area where we can try and hash things out ourselves. When you are new you don't mind if guys ask the same questions you just ask 10 mins ago, but I know that must be a pain in the butt to some of the more skilled and seasoned guys around here. I believe if you just leave us on our own where we can go back and read what you guys have already posted for us and then come back and ask questions that we might still have between ourselves then we will figure it out soon enough and lets face it, that is how we all learn. Just my 2 cents, but please make sure you pros do stop by and check on us ever so often so we don't blow up the mobile phone world.
Thanks,
JMan
I like the sub-forum idea. Just to point out, Modaco does something like this... they have a beginner forum. Not that xda has to be like Modaco, but there is a precedent for this...
Absolute Beginners
New to Windows Mobile? New to MoDaCo? Lost and don't know where to start? Post in here and a member of our team will point you in the right direction, and move your post to the appropriate area!
http://www.modaco.com/forum.html
You could make people who like to direct and assist others as the moderators of this forum to act as traffic cops... so to speak. This will leave the cooks to focus on doing great ROMs.
I have a question for a Mod or Admin if they read this... maybe the search problem is a admin setting problem. Can someone verify that vBulletin Search to FULLTEXT inside the admincp of vBulletin?
There are also ways to embed google search into the forum:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=171042
why not create a new one?
I'm new to the forum, and honestly did not fully understand the title of the forum till now - that the forum was primarily for hard core developers. Given the success and ease of Google, we find a gold mine like xda, and fall in love.
So since there is a Kaiser, Kaiser upgrading, and Kaiser Accessories, why can't there be a Kaiser for rookies (took me a while to figure out what what a noob was). That might be a way for us lesser ones ( juniors) to talk, and the genius's out there (seniors) dont subscribe ! Then u would have every right to FLAME anyone on the upgrading forum. Plus we may be more willing to jump in and answer without the guru's watching.
my 2 cents
I think a noobie forum is a good idea. I too have seen alot of hostility towards "stupid" or repeat questions. While I am not exactly a noobie, I still have a dumb question every now and then, that's just the way it goes when one is learning I guess. I often can't find things when I search, when you are very new this is especially hard, because sometimes you don't even know what to search for.
I have received excellent help here from many kind people, and just don't know what I would have done without this forum. But even I, who am not a COMPLETE noobie, got made fun of the other day by a poster, because after reading something several times, I missed something on a page. The poster not only posted twice to point out my stupidity, but even took the time and energy to create a photoshop graphic to show what an idiot I was for missing the information. I thought it was sad that attitude was taken. I ALWAYS go out of my way to help others, with what limited knowledge I have. I often receive PMs of can you help me..., and I try my best to explain things as clearly as I can.
I totally understand that there are many here, who are way too advanced for questions like "how do I make my today look like yours?" And I would never expect them to spend time answering, when there time would be much better spent on more advanced things (and I'm not being sarcastic at all, I really do completely understand more advanced members should spend their time on more advanced things). There are some of us here with some knowledge able to help those with simple questions, so I'd say maybe people who are bothered by others posts, could just ignore the dumb questions. LOL, I've never even flashed a ROM (too chicken and broke to void my warranty), but I sure can put together a great looking and functioning Today screen. An I surely know how to install every tweak and cab to make my phone function as efficiently as possible. And, I will be more than happy to answer questions of that caliber
Maybe a noobie forum could cut down on some of the hostility, and we could help out beginners. I for one would be more than willing to answer any questions that I am capable of answering, and leave those who are more knowledgeable to deal with the hard stuff
So I'm a newbie, admittingly, and am hyped about learning how to get cubes and flowmasters on the tilt....j/k....no seriously, i'm a newb and want to figure out how to get the flo/cube/and other cool software on the unit.
I know there is a lot that goes into this and on spending 5 days on this forum searching, I still feel confused. There are thousands of threads on this and google, way too much information to assimilate with no organizational approach. I almost installed a bunch of ROM changing stuff without unlocking my phone and found out it almost became a paper weight!
So, my request is realistic and simple - can more experienced and friendly people please post their favorite threads here for every newbie to read that would help us learn in a more organized fashion rather than haphazardly. That way instead of saying "how do I install the cube", after research I can do it myself?
THANKS!
You'd have a hardtime getting anyone to help you about this. Reason being, its not that they're being an ass (a couple are) but main reason is there's too many threads of "how do i do this?" or "what do i need to do", etc. When things that you want to know, is easily searchable. It's a pain in the ass to read all the forums (trust me, cause i HAD to). But, its well worth it.
All the questions that you might come up with, they've been probably been covered somewhere in the forums. One thing i can suggest is, read the Wiki. And read some more. It's a bit overwhelming at first, but in the end you can narrow down some of your choices. Dont let that discourage you here, there are a lot of nice people to help you out.
Just read the wiki's/how to's first and you'll be fine.
Wrong section
You actually asking this in the wrong section...
I would suggest checking this out.
Slither's Cube
Poorly Duck's
Please direct further questions like this to here
Cube Wiki page, now linked under software on the Kaiser wiki. Thanks go to DaveShaw for creating it...
Asked, Answered & Properly Directed...
Closed so it can fade into the background...
Ok so I read through some threads and you guys are all a million steps ahead of me..I would like a simple guide on how to put custom roms/modifing the phone..where to get apps for the phone..etc..remember im still learning here lol
by the way im using the Att Tilt on the rogers network..if that means anything lol
just do some reading... there is more literature in these forums than you would probably care to read. Use the search feature to find items related to what you are looking for. Additionally, read the Wiki for Kaiser. It will basically answer most of the questions you'll have.
noob questions
I agree with you. i have read lot of this and i am still lost.
I also would like to know if you can connect a tilt through your pc to the internet using a wireless broad band connection over bluetooth.
thanks a lot i shall take a look at the wiki
rkpoole49 said:
Ok so I read through some threads and you guys are all a million steps ahead of me..I would like a simple guide on how to put custom roms/modifing the phone..where to get apps for the phone..etc..remember im still learning here lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All you need is in this Wiki, and specificaly you need to look under "Hacks and Tweaks"
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
By all means read the Wiki. Read the Sticky post at the top of the posts listing.
But, I would not recommend anyone that is still at the stage of getting to know the phone and learning how to install programmes, to be thinking about flashing a new ROM.
I suggest you spend sometime in the regular Kaiser Forum, getting to know what the Kaiser can do/not do and absorbing information. Flashing can go seriously wrong if you do not have a clear view of what to do and in what sequence. The single sticky post in this forum would be your starting point when you have built confidence.(in particular the link to the ROM Flashing FAQ for Noobies.)
Mike
I agree with Mike....get to know the phone and then start small....ie.programs...new theme...etc......then try some of the bigger stuff.
mikechannon said:
By all means read the Wiki. Read the Sticky post at the top of the posts listing.
But, I would not recommend anyone that is still at the stage of getting to know the phone and learning how to install programmes, to be thinking about flashing a new ROM.
I suggest you spend sometime in the regular Kaiser Forum, getting to know what the Kaiser can do/not do and absorbing information. Flashing can go seriously wrong if you do not have a clear view of what to do and in what sequence. The single sticky post in this forum would be your starting point when you have built confidence.(in particular the link to the ROM Flashing FAQ for Noobies.)
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with Mike, and (although I'm not on as much anymore) PLEASE READ THE TILT SPECIFIC WIKI!!!
It took a while to compile and was made specifically for new user such as yourself. Cheers.
Hi Moderators and Senior Memers and all the lovely people of this forum,
I wish if we can have a glossary page at the Wiki for all the new ppl which can have some commonly used terms or Words defined. like OEM, PIE and others..
Though I am quite old to this forum now, but still i find it difficult many times to decipher a particular term used in the forum by Senior people who at times used very technical term.
if we have a glossary, we can avioid new bees posting same old queries again and again..also this way we can aware ppl here about the product they are using.
please respond to this thread, and tell me if i am asking something extra or if we have a glossary page already, Can someone please send me a link.. i will like that to be a bookmarked page.
Many thanks
Loku
I will go ahead and write one up over the next few days and post it. Hopefully it can be sticked and then merged into the Wiki. Perhaps you can post any questions you have to this thread so they can be answered and included.
Thanks for your input.
Thanks much h4waii,
i specifically interested in understanding the USPL and Kitchen terminologies... though i have flashed my VOX with all the Dr. Gonzo's Rom and all versions of NEO by secable. but i really don't understand those pure technical words you ppl use... Its more like Follow the instruction like bible
Thanks again for finding my post a worth
take care
Loku
Wiki has been slightly updated. Please write any and all questions you have about SPL, kitchen, flashing, ROM/RADIO questions you might have. Aboslutely anything, if you thought of them - other people might have and it can be a great help to them. So don't hold back, ask all the 'silly questions' you can think of!
Nice idea...
don't know if it already exists but also including a F.A.Q wuold not be so bad...including the most usual questions like:
Q:"I was trying to flash the XXX rom and i got Image corruption or whatever is..."
A: Have you flashed your SPL.....?
P:S Maybe we would never say RTFM..but we could say RTW( Read The Wiki) LoL...
@h4waii:
Just for the future, when you add a page to the wiki and want to link to it you don't need the full link, just [Glossary|vox_glossary]! Looks better and is easier. OK now start asking questions (never thought I would ever write this)!
Thanks much members..Give me time this coming sunday.. i'll have my list prepare.
Just to share my VOX would have been just abother phone of mine, had i not discovered this forum. It made me love my phone just too much
thanks all
loku
@frauhottelmann:
Ah, thanks and thank you for changing it.
Once a good amount of questions are put and answered, I will contact a moderator to have the title adjusted and stickied.
@lokeshmudgal:
We await your questions to fill you with knowledge! Teehee.
OK, The Mods, seniors and members that develop and discuss their ROMs on here have all gone to a lot of trouble( and time) to write the information required to teach us all how to build our own custom ROMs. They have spent hours and hours setting up the Kaiser Wiki with tutorials that are so simple they could teach a duck to tapdance! So could all who are thinking about building their own ROM please read first........when i say read, i mean read, i have read many posts that repost in half an hour say "read that and it didn't help" . In my experience its impossible to take in all the info needed in half an hour! Obviously if you don't find an answer after 2 weeks then consider asking someone, but 99.9% of answers are already here so it would be very rare you should need to ask. Most of the people here are here to discuss ROM development, not spoonfeed people who can't be bothered to read. This also includes the PM function of this site, just because you don't get the simplistic answer you were looking for in a thread, doesn't mean you can stalk by PM asking all the same questions over and over again.
If after you have read all the info available and took it in and still don't understand.....well maybe you're not capable of being a ROM chef, give up, go back to the Wiki, and download one of the amazing cooked ROMs already posted.
I think i speak for all the chefs on here with the above statement.
Apologies to the mods if this is in the wrong place, equally maybe this could make a good sticky and give all the real developers more time to develop rather than teach!
Nice words. Only thing is stuff like this has been said before, and the people who don't read the Stickies, Wiki's, How To's etc, don't read these threads either.
I made up most of my 1000+ posts explaing stuff I read from this forum to other members who didn't. Don't get me wrong I don't mind helping out with people who have read but are just confused, or have missed bits I have read. It's the people who plainly havn't bothered to read and just ask expecting and answer. Or the people who say I have a problem, tell me how to fix it.
To the noobs: You need to explain your problem so that we can understand, that way we can help you. i.e. I have done x and y, but then I get message m, so I tried z and I still get the message. That sort of thing makes life easy.
Oh well, we can but hope...
Dave