Guys,
Is there somewhere else who create an application that can make SDHC card as device memory?
Thanx.
irmanpribadi said:
Guys,
Is there somewhere else who create an application that can make SDHC card as device memory?
Thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The storage card can only be used as a storage card, not for device memory. nice idea though, it would be nice to have 16gb of ram
Regards
Jay
maybe this is not about ram but about having the sd card as primary partition, which might be possible although it has never been done before. in wm2003 the ramdrive was the primary partition and the "storage" was listed as a storage card. these days the storage is the first (and on most devices and roms only) partition. but when a ramdisk is added, it is listed as a storage card. that means the order of the drives is variable and a storage card could also be the first partition.
but what would you want with a theretical answer like that? an expert rom chef, who started with cooking wm2003 might know the answer or could do that for you.
but for all realistic means, you should simply try and save all documents, pictures, videos and music, install bigger programs, derive the cache for your browser, store email attachments all on the sd card. the only problems with completely leaving out on the internal storage, especially for program installation, is that it is slow.
It should be possible but you will probably need to cook a new ROM to get it working. It's mostly just a matter of telling CE which mounted volume you want to mount as root for the emulated objectstore.
This document on MSDN should give you an idea of what to do:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms885839.aspx
The MPx200's WM5/WM6 ROMs do this already. If you do this, keep in mind you likely won't ever be able to eject the card while the device is booted as the registry will be stored there. Now, maybe you could write some sort of app that would dismount/remount and reinitialize the registry at the press of a button but that doesn't seem too practical unless you have no choice as on the MPx200. Another workaround might be to store the registry hives on an internal flash partition and store the rest of the system folders on the SD card.
As for implementing the RAM/ROM based filesystem like in WM2003, I'm not sure. The Windows CE 5.x kernel used for Windows Mobile 5/6/6.1/6.5 certainly won't prevent you from doing it but I'm unsure the Universal's hardware can persist the ram contents between "soft" resets. If it can, then I imagine it's only a matter of using an NK.exe that doesn't force a clean reboot and using a different filesys.exe than the included ROM only/hive registry configuration it ships with. Heh, if you ever looked at the MS news groups you will see a whole bunch of posts by OEMS getting yelled at for using the ram based configuration in their beta WM5 roms. "Not supported" doesn't mean it can't be done and work, it just means MS doesnt' want you to do it for either marketing or other reasons.
Chef_Tony said:
maybe this is not about ram but about having the sd card as primary partition, which might be possible although it has never been done before. in wm2003 the ramdrive was the primary partition and the "storage" was listed as a storage card. these days the storage is the first (and on most devices and roms only) partition. but when a ramdisk is added, it is listed as a storage card. that means the order of the drives is variable and a storage card could also be the first partition.
but what would you want with a theretical answer like that? an expert rom chef, who started with cooking wm2003 might know the answer or could do that for you.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ramdisk you are talking about is very different from the Windows CE object store used in WM2003 and many current non-PPC WinCE devices.
They don't even use the same filesystem! The ramdisk driver commonly circulated on these forums basically just formats/mounts a chunk of RAM as a FAT partition. It can't be resized and appears to the OS as any other flash card. You can even format it with StorageTools or whatever. The dynamic ramdisk or objectstore is built into the WinCE OS. It uses a proprietary filesystem optimized for RAM usage that is closely integrated into the kernel. As I understand it, It's more like a database than a filesystem like FAT. The registry, files and DBs are all stored in the same internal format and then abstracted by the OS and it's APIs. It couldn't even be disabled until more recent WinCE versions. More info: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa910544.aspx
Related
Short Story:
Is there a way to change what my HTC device thinks is program only RAM vs Storage only?
Long Story:
I have an HTC Titan, but thats not important as this is a standard question. I couldn't find a similar question or answer by searching the forums, but if someone has a better search keyword for me to use, post it here too.
Is there a way to expand what the device thinks is Program memory? I'm trying to install CoD to test the Mogul (even if you post that it doesnt work I still like to know my original question). I have about 20mb left of "program" memory, 130mb left of "storage", and a 512micro sd empty (minor IE cache and attachments on it). I'm of course assuming that the ROM just makes those setting in the RAM and its not two seperate chips.
from wm5 ms changed the way memory is handled / works
pda's used to use flash for the rom
and ram devived between application and storage
but as batt death would delete peoples storage
and flash becomming dirt cheap
they changed it so ram was only! used
for application memory
and flash was used for storage
so the slider to devive oneself is no longer present
there are tools at least for some devices which make a ramdisk for
the pda which take some of the application memory and let one
install stuff on it you
can check buzzdev.net to see if that tool DiscOnChip is out for your devices
So they are fundamentally different memory types and chips?
yes
you can compare it with pc memory vs. pc harddisk
hhmm is that a new spam tactics ?
to post spam inside threads to make deleting harder?
Fair enough...thanks...shame it turned out harder then I though
.....that is a very interesting spam tatic...never seen that...*wonders off to find an mod*
yes it's harder after wm5 but with buzzdev.net's chipondisk program it handle it
not sure how many devices it support as it was mainly made for old devices
where they only have very limited storage space
and "alot" of memory because they were made for the old wm2003 and prev
memory deviding system
It just seems to me that, while yes I like storage but you give us a SD slot so why make only 47mb Program and 162mb Storage....
Is possible use a part of my micro-SD on wm6 as program memory?
In a word, no.
Have a look at an SD card. There are only 8 contacts on it. It behaves as a serial disk drive as far as your phone/PPC is concerned, even though it attached to the "\Storage Card" mount point. The storage can be used by the phone but it is not directly addressable by the 32 bits of the CPU. It can only be paged in and out similar to the swap file on your PC.
Ok...
thanks for the reply
Is there any programm that allows you to use it as swap?
(Do you mean something as the virtual panging that windows do on the hard disk?)
Sorry, I think it's still no.
There is a lot of chatter on this over at
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
But the prognosis does not look good.
the least you can do is install as many applications as you can on your storage card...
tho not all apps can be installed on it.
remember, that if you used any software to make a part of the SD card become program storage space you will be still experiencing the same need to move page files to the ram before it can be used by the device.. so there's actually no point in doing that.
the least you can do is install as many applications as you can on your storage card...
tho not all apps can be installed on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... in fact i usually try to install apps on the flash memory... but lots need to be situated on the main memory... and the hermes don't has much of it...
Thanks a lot for the reply
(ps... sorry I'm not english and i could have written same/lots of mistakes..)
unfortunately ram isn't expandable on pdas..
again, the best you can do is install as many apps as you can on your storage card.
Hi guys, i have recently flashed my uni with the awesome TML v8.81 Rom, I noticed there is a Flash Disk under My device. What's the purpose of that? Could anyone tell me what's the difference between installing software under my device and flash disk?
Many thanks
id like to know this too, as it seems the flash disk removes 15MB or so of much needed RAM, what is the purpose of it, so far I have installed everything on normal storage, should I be installing things like Opera on the flash disk because it runs faster?
types of memory
Ok, quick resume of memory:
There are four types of internal memory on the Universal (the quoted MB are from a 64MB G3 uni):
Code:
[B]Storage Memory[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Usually 43.72MB with 40MB free (depends on installation of full/vanilla ROM)
What: Your main storage for all installations on your device (including windows)
Use: This where the device ROM (eg WM6.x) and other device programs are stored (everything under \).
eh? : This can be considered much like your C: drive on a PC.
+info: Get a ROM that has just about everything you want.
Getting vanilla ROM and installing apps in Storage is likely to use more Storage than if you get ROM that has all apps you require.
I never install anything here unless I have no option, or it's a Today item.
Some programs will use this as cache or temp storage area.
[B]Program Memory[/B]
Type: Program (RAM)
Size: Usually 48-49MB with 30MB or less free (this figure lowers with the more Apps that are run, an initial 12MB is eaten by Windows)
What: This is your available memory for running programs. Program Memory is also for used by Boot and PagePool (usually 6MB).
Use: The more of this you have, the more programs you can run, and the faster memory hungry apps can run.
eh? : This can be considered much like your RAM on a PC
+info: The Today Screen items will also eat up this memory, so stay away from "bling" Today items if you want other memory hungry apps to run (like route navigators)
NB. This memory is NOT eaten up or reduced by any other medium (ie, FlashDisk). 30MB free is great, but 20MB is usual running for a 64MB Uni.
[B]FlashDisk[/B] (only available on G3 according to wiki [I]- someone clarify?[/I])
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Can be 10MB to 30MB - and is made available solely by what's left by the ROM and given to you by the cook
What: Extra storage which is retained through a soft-reset.
Use: Store programs you always want available (ie, not on SD), but don't want in your Storage Memory
eh?: This can be considered much like your second hard-drive on a PC.
+info: If important, choose cook and ROM wisely, otherwise install such stuff on approprate SD/Storage.
The FlashDisk is where I store my messages and attachments (and programs like music/video players if cook doesn't supply them).
NB. This doesn't take up any Program Memory. It's either made available by the cook, or if the cook doesn't make it available it's wasted space that you can't use.
[B]ExtendedROM[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Is usually 9.96MB
What: Extra memory which doesn't survive a soft-reset.
Use: Anything you don't mind losing :)
eh?: This could be considered as a RAMDrive on a PC (that is, in that it's volatile, but not that it takes up any Program Memory)
+info: I use this for all cache (eg PIExplorer, Opera etc)
NB. Again, this is either made available or wasted space you can't use (see FlashDisk NB).
[B]Storage Card[/B]
Type: External Storage
Size: Can be anything (I have seen up to 16GB)
What: Extra storage for programs, cache etc. Always slower than any of the above. (NB. If anyone really interested, I can get you some values here)
Use: Anything that doesn't fit into the Uni ;)
Install apps here that aren't required by the system (ie, non-Today items)
eh?: This could be considered as any removeable storage on a PC (even an SD card!!!)
+info: Don't put anything here that the system expects to exist (eg, Today items). I use it for maps, music, videos and all apps not supplied by ROM cook.
I only have use one huge SD card, so I install all my apps on it. You may want to reconsider your installations if you use more than one SD card.
However, Cotulla created a ROM for G3 that combined Storage (not program memory)
.
Nice answer that!
Now here is where it gets confusing I own a G4 with Tomals Rom on it and it has flash disk on it, I always thought it wasn't meant to. It does work too. I keep other small apps on it, it seems to load as fast as main memory. SD cads have a small time lag on a soft reset, so anything that needs to load on start up needs to be on board not SD. I'm not a cook so i'm sure there is a good answer but I often wondered why memory can't be repartitioned over to ram instead of flash disk or storage?
Jay
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
JonMorgan said:
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I get extended rom now too. things have moved on since the WiKi was made I guess.
Jay
To all the Devs:
What do you all think will be your biggest hurdle to overcome with the advent of the Honeycomb ROM? I tend to think the two gnarliest parts will be the video and the accelerometer.
Just curious as I'd like to try dipping my feet into the ROM cooking waters and was wondering what y'all most have the problems with.
Not a dev, but:
Storage management may be a biggie. Honeycomb apparently changed from fixed allocations to dynamic storage management. Motorola is trying get Android to create a mod for them and their Xoom so the microsd works. Question may be is the space treated as a total of the storage or its own logical location? If the former, the card will not be able to be removed, since part of the storage total system (some data and media will be on the card, some on internal, but no based on location).
rushless said:
Not a dev, but:
Storage management may be a biggie. Honeycomb apparently changed from fixed allocations to dynamic storage management. Motorola is trying get Android to create a mod for them and their Xoom so the microsd works. Question may be is the space treated as a total of the storage or its own logical location? If the former, the card will not be able to be removed, since part of the storage total system (some data and media will be on the card, some on internal, but no based on location).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now I somewhat understand why iDevices haven't had a SDCard slot and why WP7 devices have non-removable SDCards.
Why exactly is it so difficult to have dynamic storage management, alongside a SDCard with it's own logical location? Would that maybe create issues for each specific vendor or make it so Honeycomb would have to be more tailored for different configurations of devices?
Is it that much different from say, Windows 7 or Linux being on a drive, able to use as much space as possible on that drive but allowing for usb storage and sd card storage on drives of their own?
I just got a Samsung EVO+ microSD card. I was wondering if I should format it before using it. So I looked up the net on what was the best way to format a SD card. Came across many suggestions like use your smartphone, SD formatter, Windows format etc. Then I came across this :
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device
To damage such a device, all you have to do is reformat it with any of the usual Linux-based tools like fdisk, mkfs, and dd. Chances are excellent that you will manage to choose a layout that makes the device work extra hard, thus slowing it down and wearing it out faster.
You can also accomplish the same feat using various Windows tools that are part of the Microsoft OEM Preinstallation Kit, and probably with other Windows-based tools (e.g. dd for Windows, and perhaps even with the GUI format capability).
...
Factory formatting.
The manufacturers of FLASH storage devices understand this. When they format the device at the factory, they know which filesystem they are putting on (typically either FAT16 or FAT32), the page and erase sizes for the NAND FLASH chips inside, and the characteristics of the FTL software in the internal microcontroller. (Actually, there is yet another factor - multiple NAND chips or multi-plane chips can further influence the locations of "efficient" boundaries.) Knowing this, they can choose a layout that encourages "easy case" internal operations.
...
How to win.
It boils down to the fact that you need to micro-manage a lot of details to ensure that things fall on suitably-aligned boundaries. You need to consider both the partition map and the filesystem layout in concert. One way to separate the problems is to make each partition begin on an erase block boundary, then layout the filesystems so their subordinate data structures (particularly the cluster or "fs block" array) fall on erase block boundaries assuming that the partition itself begins erase-block-aligned. What is a good alignment boundary? Well, 256 KiB is good for most new chips, but to give some breathing room for the future, maybe 1 MiB would be better - or perhaps even 4 MiB.
Better yet, try to avoid reformatting FLASH-based devices when you have the choice.
...
Bottom-line recommendations:
If you can, stick with the factory map
If you must make a "blast it on with dd" image, be very careful and conservative with the partition and filesystem layout, according to the techniques above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I intend doing is to make a (Symantec) Ghost image of the entire "disk" (the SD card) before I actually use it. This is done on Windows of course. The image preserves the geometry of the entire "disk". If I ever need to format the SD card, I will just restore this image to the SD card. This should result in a "factory formatted" card.
Many of you are more knowledgeable than me, please comment.
I cant get what you say.
You want to change the partition type of sd card or you want to just erase what is on sd card
^
1) It's better not to format a SD card unless you really have to.
2) I'm preserving the "geometry" of my new SD card using a Ghost image -so that in the future if I need to format it I will just restore that image. The SD card will then be as good as factory formatted.
Any other method of formatting won't guarantee that.
This is a great job but why you want to do that man.
Then back it up, make that ghost image and save it in case anything ever goes wrong. Then put the card in your phone and format it from there, that way it's almost guaranteed to be formatted correctly to be used with your phone.
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