Short Story:
Is there a way to change what my HTC device thinks is program only RAM vs Storage only?
Long Story:
I have an HTC Titan, but thats not important as this is a standard question. I couldn't find a similar question or answer by searching the forums, but if someone has a better search keyword for me to use, post it here too.
Is there a way to expand what the device thinks is Program memory? I'm trying to install CoD to test the Mogul (even if you post that it doesnt work I still like to know my original question). I have about 20mb left of "program" memory, 130mb left of "storage", and a 512micro sd empty (minor IE cache and attachments on it). I'm of course assuming that the ROM just makes those setting in the RAM and its not two seperate chips.
from wm5 ms changed the way memory is handled / works
pda's used to use flash for the rom
and ram devived between application and storage
but as batt death would delete peoples storage
and flash becomming dirt cheap
they changed it so ram was only! used
for application memory
and flash was used for storage
so the slider to devive oneself is no longer present
there are tools at least for some devices which make a ramdisk for
the pda which take some of the application memory and let one
install stuff on it you
can check buzzdev.net to see if that tool DiscOnChip is out for your devices
So they are fundamentally different memory types and chips?
yes
you can compare it with pc memory vs. pc harddisk
hhmm is that a new spam tactics ?
to post spam inside threads to make deleting harder?
Fair enough...thanks...shame it turned out harder then I though
.....that is a very interesting spam tatic...never seen that...*wonders off to find an mod*
yes it's harder after wm5 but with buzzdev.net's chipondisk program it handle it
not sure how many devices it support as it was mainly made for old devices
where they only have very limited storage space
and "alot" of memory because they were made for the old wm2003 and prev
memory deviding system
It just seems to me that, while yes I like storage but you give us a SD slot so why make only 47mb Program and 162mb Storage....
Related
Hi Guys,
I have a question..
How can i know what programs i should install to my stoarge memory, and which to install to my main memory? And whats the difference?
Im guessing that i would install important programs direct to main memory right? But because of limited space this can be tough. Heres a list of programs i use. Could someone please advise me which to install to Main memory and which to install to a storage card for max perfromance:
Skype
Netfront 3.3
Opera
Agile Messenger
MemMaid
Resco Explorer
TCPMP
Broken Sword (Game)
XCPU Scalar
Thanks for the help guys!
Which device do you have?
If it's a Windows Mobile 5 device, the performance between internal or memory card is minimal. If it's 2003se or older, then performance from memory will be far higher.
Rule of thumb for me is, what couldn't I do without if the memory card popped out and got lost. I put those apps internally.
Also something to consider (on a WM5 device) is that flash memory can only be written to a finite amout of times, so if you have an app that constantly rewrites data (such as NetFront with the cache) then I would stick that on a memory card. It's cheaper to replace a worn out card in 2 years than the whole device. Although I imagine most people on here replace their device within a year to 18 months anyway.
I had a friend who had this problem.I wonder who can help?With my O2 wizard i used to be running short of rom space ie storage memory as it had only 32mb left at factory default settings. My friend is running short of Program memory.ie ram space.
She is using eten m600+ that had 180mb storage for user and only 30mb program memory for user left at time of factory default settings.(when Bought from the shop)
original specs state 256mb rom and 64 mb ram.
after installing many programs the ppc still had about 125mb(excessive and redundant for running programs) left in storage and only 10 mb left in program memory.
Problem is certain programs like mapking, imap, agenda fusion(3000 contacts) consumes about 10 mb of program memory to run. then there is insufficient program memory to run a 2nd program at the same time.
If only we can shift like in my case 10 to 20mb from storage memory to program memory the the etenm600+ ppc would be wonderful.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THIS?
She has also a miotech A700 with about almost the same programs installed.The miotech factory default program memory is also left with 30mb when purchased. HOWEVER with almost the same programs installed the program memory left is about 25mb.THERFORE on miotech there is no problems to run multiple programs concurrently.
Question:
1.What cause the difference in usage of the program memory?
2.What to do to ensure that the program memory is not used up during installation of programs?
3.Are we able to see the Program memory to identify which of our programs are occupying the space?
4.Can we do anything eg to shift the programs that occupy the space in program memory to storage memory or storage card( like the way we are able to shift certain programs from storage memory to storage card by shifting the programs from the Program files in Main Memory to Program files in storage card therby freeing the storage memory)
Any insight into this would be much appreciated. At this point manufacturers had yet to increase ram ie program memory from 64mb up to 128 or 256mb as had been done for storage memory ie rom in the case of eten600+ had been increased to 256mb from 128mb(Eten m600/o2 or dopod products)
With my O2 wizard i used to be running short of rom space ie storage memory as it had only 32mb at factory default settings
Ok, here is the memory explanation:
As you may or may not (I am not quite certain from your post) know on WM5 devices like the Wizard storage memory is ROM, or more precisely flash (NAND if you want to get technical).
Program memory is RAM (I think it's SRAM not sure).
Since these are two physically different types of memory there is no way what so ever to use one in place of the other. So no borrowing storage memory to run programs.
Even if it was somehow possible (which it's not) to use flash to run programs it would bring your device to a halt as its read / write speeds are much to slow.
On WM5 systems RAM (program memory) is used just like on PC exclusively for running programs. It can not be used for storage so there is no danger of it being wasted during installation.
I don't have an explanation regarding the ETEN vs MIO issue, but keep the following in mind:
1) 64MB is in reality reported as about 55MB (binary count difference), 10 - 15 of that is reserved by the system and as much as 5 more may be taken up by resident apps / services depending on the device and the provider.
2) Same program may use up different amounts of RAM under different circumstances and may have memory leaks which means the memory it uses grows over time even if you do not input more data.
Also check out this neat app. Its a really great tool if you want to see whats going on on your device.
Hi all, I'm not sure if it is already done, but when I open memory to see how much I spend and how much is still left I see that the phone splits memory for data use and memory for program use. is it possible to combine those to program use only? or does the pro does that automatic when program mem is full? because I bought a microsdhc cart and all my data is doing on that.
thanks in advanced!
You must be new to Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile devices has 2 types of memory, RAM and ROM. Since WM5, RAM is used to maintain running processes. ROM is used as storage (unlike pre WM5, where RAM is splitted between storage and running programs and ROM storage is hidden).
Touch Pro has 288MB RAM (about 200MB usable) and 512MB ROM (about 318MB usable). This is due to the amount of RAM used by OS (while running) and ROM used by OS (in storage).
When you insert your MicroSD card, you'll see a new folder in File Explorer. It's called Storage Card.
So, in simple statement, no, you can't combined the memory as they are different types of memory.
in other words, its like trying to combine your desktop PC RAM memory with DVD disk storage space.
lol okay I very much understand what your saying. I am new at wm idd. but hell no with computers I actually do a study Informatica but just didnt knew how wm was made or never really looked into it. I thought it was just like a harddisk on a pc were you install your programs & data like music. and it uses the RAM memory for running programs I installed on the harddisk. but never mind very much thnx for the explanation!
Hi guys, i have recently flashed my uni with the awesome TML v8.81 Rom, I noticed there is a Flash Disk under My device. What's the purpose of that? Could anyone tell me what's the difference between installing software under my device and flash disk?
Many thanks
id like to know this too, as it seems the flash disk removes 15MB or so of much needed RAM, what is the purpose of it, so far I have installed everything on normal storage, should I be installing things like Opera on the flash disk because it runs faster?
types of memory
Ok, quick resume of memory:
There are four types of internal memory on the Universal (the quoted MB are from a 64MB G3 uni):
Code:
[B]Storage Memory[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Usually 43.72MB with 40MB free (depends on installation of full/vanilla ROM)
What: Your main storage for all installations on your device (including windows)
Use: This where the device ROM (eg WM6.x) and other device programs are stored (everything under \).
eh? : This can be considered much like your C: drive on a PC.
+info: Get a ROM that has just about everything you want.
Getting vanilla ROM and installing apps in Storage is likely to use more Storage than if you get ROM that has all apps you require.
I never install anything here unless I have no option, or it's a Today item.
Some programs will use this as cache or temp storage area.
[B]Program Memory[/B]
Type: Program (RAM)
Size: Usually 48-49MB with 30MB or less free (this figure lowers with the more Apps that are run, an initial 12MB is eaten by Windows)
What: This is your available memory for running programs. Program Memory is also for used by Boot and PagePool (usually 6MB).
Use: The more of this you have, the more programs you can run, and the faster memory hungry apps can run.
eh? : This can be considered much like your RAM on a PC
+info: The Today Screen items will also eat up this memory, so stay away from "bling" Today items if you want other memory hungry apps to run (like route navigators)
NB. This memory is NOT eaten up or reduced by any other medium (ie, FlashDisk). 30MB free is great, but 20MB is usual running for a 64MB Uni.
[B]FlashDisk[/B] (only available on G3 according to wiki [I]- someone clarify?[/I])
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Can be 10MB to 30MB - and is made available solely by what's left by the ROM and given to you by the cook
What: Extra storage which is retained through a soft-reset.
Use: Store programs you always want available (ie, not on SD), but don't want in your Storage Memory
eh?: This can be considered much like your second hard-drive on a PC.
+info: If important, choose cook and ROM wisely, otherwise install such stuff on approprate SD/Storage.
The FlashDisk is where I store my messages and attachments (and programs like music/video players if cook doesn't supply them).
NB. This doesn't take up any Program Memory. It's either made available by the cook, or if the cook doesn't make it available it's wasted space that you can't use.
[B]ExtendedROM[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Is usually 9.96MB
What: Extra memory which doesn't survive a soft-reset.
Use: Anything you don't mind losing :)
eh?: This could be considered as a RAMDrive on a PC (that is, in that it's volatile, but not that it takes up any Program Memory)
+info: I use this for all cache (eg PIExplorer, Opera etc)
NB. Again, this is either made available or wasted space you can't use (see FlashDisk NB).
[B]Storage Card[/B]
Type: External Storage
Size: Can be anything (I have seen up to 16GB)
What: Extra storage for programs, cache etc. Always slower than any of the above. (NB. If anyone really interested, I can get you some values here)
Use: Anything that doesn't fit into the Uni ;)
Install apps here that aren't required by the system (ie, non-Today items)
eh?: This could be considered as any removeable storage on a PC (even an SD card!!!)
+info: Don't put anything here that the system expects to exist (eg, Today items). I use it for maps, music, videos and all apps not supplied by ROM cook.
I only have use one huge SD card, so I install all my apps on it. You may want to reconsider your installations if you use more than one SD card.
However, Cotulla created a ROM for G3 that combined Storage (not program memory)
.
Nice answer that!
Now here is where it gets confusing I own a G4 with Tomals Rom on it and it has flash disk on it, I always thought it wasn't meant to. It does work too. I keep other small apps on it, it seems to load as fast as main memory. SD cads have a small time lag on a soft reset, so anything that needs to load on start up needs to be on board not SD. I'm not a cook so i'm sure there is a good answer but I often wondered why memory can't be repartitioned over to ram instead of flash disk or storage?
Jay
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
JonMorgan said:
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
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Click to collapse
No I get extended rom now too. things have moved on since the WiKi was made I guess.
Jay
Guys,
Is there somewhere else who create an application that can make SDHC card as device memory?
Thanx.
irmanpribadi said:
Guys,
Is there somewhere else who create an application that can make SDHC card as device memory?
Thanx.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The storage card can only be used as a storage card, not for device memory. nice idea though, it would be nice to have 16gb of ram
Regards
Jay
maybe this is not about ram but about having the sd card as primary partition, which might be possible although it has never been done before. in wm2003 the ramdrive was the primary partition and the "storage" was listed as a storage card. these days the storage is the first (and on most devices and roms only) partition. but when a ramdisk is added, it is listed as a storage card. that means the order of the drives is variable and a storage card could also be the first partition.
but what would you want with a theretical answer like that? an expert rom chef, who started with cooking wm2003 might know the answer or could do that for you.
but for all realistic means, you should simply try and save all documents, pictures, videos and music, install bigger programs, derive the cache for your browser, store email attachments all on the sd card. the only problems with completely leaving out on the internal storage, especially for program installation, is that it is slow.
It should be possible but you will probably need to cook a new ROM to get it working. It's mostly just a matter of telling CE which mounted volume you want to mount as root for the emulated objectstore.
This document on MSDN should give you an idea of what to do:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms885839.aspx
The MPx200's WM5/WM6 ROMs do this already. If you do this, keep in mind you likely won't ever be able to eject the card while the device is booted as the registry will be stored there. Now, maybe you could write some sort of app that would dismount/remount and reinitialize the registry at the press of a button but that doesn't seem too practical unless you have no choice as on the MPx200. Another workaround might be to store the registry hives on an internal flash partition and store the rest of the system folders on the SD card.
As for implementing the RAM/ROM based filesystem like in WM2003, I'm not sure. The Windows CE 5.x kernel used for Windows Mobile 5/6/6.1/6.5 certainly won't prevent you from doing it but I'm unsure the Universal's hardware can persist the ram contents between "soft" resets. If it can, then I imagine it's only a matter of using an NK.exe that doesn't force a clean reboot and using a different filesys.exe than the included ROM only/hive registry configuration it ships with. Heh, if you ever looked at the MS news groups you will see a whole bunch of posts by OEMS getting yelled at for using the ram based configuration in their beta WM5 roms. "Not supported" doesn't mean it can't be done and work, it just means MS doesnt' want you to do it for either marketing or other reasons.
Chef_Tony said:
maybe this is not about ram but about having the sd card as primary partition, which might be possible although it has never been done before. in wm2003 the ramdrive was the primary partition and the "storage" was listed as a storage card. these days the storage is the first (and on most devices and roms only) partition. but when a ramdisk is added, it is listed as a storage card. that means the order of the drives is variable and a storage card could also be the first partition.
but what would you want with a theretical answer like that? an expert rom chef, who started with cooking wm2003 might know the answer or could do that for you.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ramdisk you are talking about is very different from the Windows CE object store used in WM2003 and many current non-PPC WinCE devices.
They don't even use the same filesystem! The ramdisk driver commonly circulated on these forums basically just formats/mounts a chunk of RAM as a FAT partition. It can't be resized and appears to the OS as any other flash card. You can even format it with StorageTools or whatever. The dynamic ramdisk or objectstore is built into the WinCE OS. It uses a proprietary filesystem optimized for RAM usage that is closely integrated into the kernel. As I understand it, It's more like a database than a filesystem like FAT. The registry, files and DBs are all stored in the same internal format and then abstracted by the OS and it's APIs. It couldn't even be disabled until more recent WinCE versions. More info: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa910544.aspx