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Why the Lag !

I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.

I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...

Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.

On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.

This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).

Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
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Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.

i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t

i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd

There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.

Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)

I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.

i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi

I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.

I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.

I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.

PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?

I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.

Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH

thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.

I was dreaming for a Touch Pro...then I found i780

Yeap this is an appreciation thread for the venerable Samsung SGH-i780.
My only lament is that I didn't buy myself one earlier. I have used a few HTC devices before and this is the first time I can declare 100% satisfaction in my PDA purchase.
For the price VS feature, the i780 is A STEAL! it's almost unbelievable.
What I liked about i780:
- FAST! no joke (after upgrading the Rom to DXHE1)
- Stable - you can push it to the max and still it runs
- FAST HSDPA (I am on 3G/HSDPA day in day out for Exchange Push Mail & Internet Sharing)
- Oh yes that slim profile
- 2 Batteries! when was it the last time you purchase a phone and get two batteries
- Satisfactory battery consumption (even with Bluetooth & 3G always on the drain rate is quite conservative)
I will nitpick a bit, Dopod 838 Pro (Hermes) was the longest running PDA Phone I used. At that time it gave all the features I want and I gave it away for a Tytn II (Kaiser). Sad to say Kaiser was a dissapointment no matter how I cook the rom. Then I moved briefly to O2 XDA Flame, God I love the huge VGA display.....but then it was dissapointing O2/MWG decided to disown "older" models and refrain from giving any further support. So no WM6.0 and no update on the Nvidia Graphics driver. On top of that there's that dismal performance when running in normal mode (if you switch to performance mode it kicks but the battery drain is way overkill). Then I moved ahead and got myself a veteran - the almighty HTC Universal (Dopod 900). It's quite apparent that to this very day, HTC Universal still reign supreme as the fastest HTC device (specially with properly cooked roms). But alas the bulky size and lack of HSDPA prompted me to move yet again.
Enter the i780, it was a love/hate affair at first.....I hate the smallish keypad, but in just two weeks my fingers has grown onto them, I hate the square QVGA 320X320 but eventually found a way to adapt....the rest is history. Total satisfaction is what I can say about this device now. Perfectly functional features and usable too. The GPS worked like a charm, the Video Call does what's it supposed to do...etc...
So, I may still want to waste my $ on the Touch Pro when it comes out, but I am not so sure right now - hearing stories that the younger sibling Diamond is having hard time coping up with the demands (vs expectation)
sorry to waste your time. Normally I will be quite reserved not to say anything unless warranted....but I just have to scream out how much I LOVE i780!!!

so, do you like the i780? it isnt clear

i'm with you!
i also moved from Kaiser to I780. kaiser is really dispointting me,slow,big,heavy,and the damn drift screen!!
the speed of i780 is just satisfiable, screen is wird but ok. the most good thing is the touch experience, very precisely. when i was useing Kaiser i even think that there is problem with my eyes because of the frequently wrong reactions...
oh, the finger mouse is a highlight too.

320x320 .... thats a no go!

i couldn't possibly that 320x320 is a no go, since vga sometimes overkill for small formfactor. yet i would really want to know whether apps having issues with this resolutions or not? how is your experience with the apps, EFN? any compatibility issues with the 'unstandard' screen size?

I agree with you on the price /bang for your buck. This thing is unbelievably cutthroat in its pricing for what you get. I spent 18,000php on it, HTC phones usually go for about 40,000php. The phone actually retails for like 20,000-24,000php but I got mine "second hand" from a guy who used it for a week so I got a little discount and basically got it dirt cheap, on top of an already dirt cheap phone.
I mean come on it has 128MB RAM, 256MB ROM, HSDPA, GPS, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, WiFi b/g, a QWERTY, a 320x320 Touchscreen, not one but two batteries, the Marvell processor, this thing is freaking loaded.
I mean the HTC Touch (the original one) is still going for about 29,000php and it has a piddly OMAP processor, no 3G, etc. The Diamond is like 40k in php. This is half the price, with a very comparable feature set.
Let's not even get into how slim and light it is! It's kind of wide and tall but despite that it is very pocketable. It's about the same size as the iPhone, except thinner and a lot lighter to boot.
I do have a few issues with it but for what I paid how can I *not* be happy? The problems are pretty minor niggles:
- Samsung proprietary USB ports * ugh I hate 'em
- aesthetics -- many people like the business look and the phone is very handsome but the designs HTC has been churning out for the past year are a lot more attractive IMO.
- Touchscreen needs a lot of pressure and is not very precise or responsive. Could be a lot better.
- telescopic stylus sucks
- QWERTY keyboard is not as good as other QWERTYs in this class like the godly Moto Q keyboards or even its predecessor the Samsung Blackjack, which I found to have a better keyboard.
- 320x320 screen is such an odd choice and causes me some problems like with spb Mobile Shell
- finger mouse is a rather stupid feature I mean you have a touchscreen! You do not need a mouse! Give me a normal 5-way d-pad please
- Bluetooth Headset issue that I always get with Samsung WiMo phones, doesn't reconnect properly after I turn the headset off
Out of those, the only real problem is the BT headset problem. Everything else is a minor niggle and more just a preference nitpick or can be worked around.
Other than that though what's not to like? It is a great device.
Is the HTC Universal really the fastest HTC device? I thought the old Magician was a lot faster. My love affair with PocketPCs looked like this:
iPaq 6365 -> O2 Mini (Magician) -> O2 Atom Exec -> Samsung Blackjack -> Jasjar (Universal) -> i780
I used the Atom Exec for the longest time it was a great phone but for various reasons I "upgraded" to a Blackjack but it was not an all happy affair. Now I have the i780 and it is the fastest PPC I have had, faster than even the Atom Exec and way faster than all the other "clunky" PPCs I've used.

schizo said:
i couldn't possibly that 320x320 is a no go, since vga sometimes overkill for small formfactor. yet i would really want to know whether apps having issues with this resolutions or not? how is your experience with the apps, EFN? any compatibility issues with the 'unstandard' screen size?
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Click to collapse
I'm not EFN but there are lots of compatibility issues with the non-standard screen size. Most games will have issues, like my favorite Worms World Party. Not that you could play Worms properly without a decent d-pad anyway. spb Mobile Shell also does not work properly. Basically apps that require a certain kind of layout have issues.
Everything else that does not need to conform to a specific screen layout will work to the resolution and work fine, and that includes most productivity apps so this is not so big an issue that you should worry about it.

Mochan said:
I'm not EFN but there are lots of compatibility issues with the non-standard screen size. Most games will have issues, like my favorite Worms World Party. Not that you could play Worms properly without a decent d-pad anyway. spb Mobile Shell also does not work properly. Basically apps that require a certain kind of layout have issues.
Everything else that does not need to conform to a specific screen layout will work to the resolution and work fine, and that includes most productivity apps so this is not so big an issue that you should worry about it.
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It's the 240x240 "emulation" that seems to mess things up. I have SPB Shell working perfectly at native res in RealVGA. Then again, it's a (superbe) productivity device, so I don't expect to play video games on it.

You know, I still haven't managed to get spb shell to run properly on it. I always get an "out of memory" error whenever I try to go to the Now screen. I even tried it on RealVGA but I couldn't seem to get it to work, but no biggie. Mobile Shell is more an aesthetic layer than an actual productivity boost and actually I find the Today screen with selected plugins is more effecient all things considered.
But anyway yeah I don't play games on it either (I mean that is what a PSP is for!) and the phone does what I need it to do, and aside from my bluetooth problem I am very happy with it.

Weird how everyone seems to be struggling to get software to work on I780. I have had minor problems, mostly blue tooth which i eventualy got working.
I use SPB mobile shell, Samsung today plugin, opera, google maps, garmin, a bunch of astraware games, adobe reader, flashplayer, pocket rar, skype, WKTaskL, monocube safemode 2, threaded sms, etc ...
And they all run perfectly, i dont even use Realvga...
I am very happy with this phone so far, it is very fast, has plenty of ram, even the 2mp camera takes descent shots. Hsdpa is brilliant and GPS is awsome, connects within seconds. I would recommend this phone to anyone.
Everyday more and more software are supporting 320x320 devices, even the spb team is soon going to fully support the I780, i read it on their website. I also read somewhere that more and more phones will be coming out with 320x320 display so i dont see why people are so against it. jealousy i guess, cant think of another reason.

EFN said:
Then I moved briefly to O2 XDA Flame, God I love the huge VGA display.....but then it was dissapointing O2/MWG decided to disown "older" models and refrain from giving any further support. So no WM6.0 and no update on the Nvidia Graphics driver.
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Wouldn't you run into the same problem you have with the Flame? As in no OS upgrade or features unlock (p3600 GPS, qual-band Diamond). I've also tried other brands but once the manufacture announce the end of life of a product (usually within a year). You can't get any more support from them. Once I realize the short coming, I stop buying any brand except HTC. Now I know I can count on XDA Developers for OS upgrade. It's like an extented warranty for your product. Unless other brands have a forum similar to xda with super cookers, there is no way for me to go with any other brands again.

atleast its cheaper than the touch pro!

Mochan said:
I agree with you on the price /bang for your buck. This thing is unbelievably cutthroat in its pricing for what you get. I spent 18,000php on it, HTC phones usually go for about 40,000php. The phone actually retails for like 20,000-24,000php but I got mine "second hand" from a guy who used it for a week so I got a little discount and basically got it dirt cheap, on top of an already dirt cheap phone.
I mean come on it has 128MB RAM, 256MB ROM, HSDPA, GPS, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, WiFi b/g, a QWERTY, a 320x320 Touchscreen, not one but two batteries, the Marvell processor, this thing is freaking loaded.
I mean the HTC Touch (the original one) is still going for about 29,000php and it has a piddly OMAP processor, no 3G, etc. The Diamond is like 40k in php. This is half the price, with a very comparable feature set.
Let's not even get into how slim and light it is! It's kind of wide and tall but despite that it is very pocketable. It's about the same size as the iPhone, except thinner and a lot lighter to boot.
I do have a few issues with it but for what I paid how can I *not* be happy? The problems are pretty minor niggles:
- Samsung proprietary USB ports * ugh I hate 'em
- aesthetics -- many people like the business look and the phone is very handsome but the designs HTC has been churning out for the past year are a lot more attractive IMO.
- Touchscreen needs a lot of pressure and is not very precise or responsive. Could be a lot better.
- telescopic stylus sucks
- QWERTY keyboard is not as good as other QWERTYs in this class like the godly Moto Q keyboards or even its predecessor the Samsung Blackjack, which I found to have a better keyboard.
- 320x320 screen is such an odd choice and causes me some problems like with spb Mobile Shell
- finger mouse is a rather stupid feature I mean you have a touchscreen! You do not need a mouse! Give me a normal 5-way d-pad please
- Bluetooth Headset issue that I always get with Samsung WiMo phones, doesn't reconnect properly after I turn the headset off
Out of those, the only real problem is the BT headset problem. Everything else is a minor niggle and more just a preference nitpick or can be worked around.
Other than that though what's not to like? It is a great device.
Is the HTC Universal really the fastest HTC device? I thought the old Magician was a lot faster. My love affair with PocketPCs looked like this:
iPaq 6365 -> O2 Mini (Magician) -> O2 Atom Exec -> Samsung Blackjack -> Jasjar (Universal) -> i780
I used the Atom Exec for the longest time it was a great phone but for various reasons I "upgraded" to a Blackjack but it was not an all happy affair. Now I have the i780 and it is the fastest PPC I have had, faster than even the Atom Exec and way faster than all the other "clunky" PPCs I've used.
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Could you care to explain to me what are PHP hours?

Best compromise phone to date
Here are my insights to the i780 after using it for a month..
First ,this is the most tolerable phone have ever used..Even its flaws are very ok to me..
I use it for business,internet browsing, news reading, gps navigation.
I use it with vodafone Egypt 3G network.
The stock rom E2 i one of the most stable WM roms i have ever used...
My other 2 phones are a nokia e61 and a JasJar (universal)
1. 320x320 is an inconvenience at only 5% of the time..(real vga fixes all issues with application ,but games are no no..specially games that run in full screen...forget it if you plan on gaming..screen is small for games any ways.)
2. the optical touch mouse is a great feature..one handed operation is very easy.
3.Camera is OK..but not as a good as any nokia N series.
4.It rarely crashes, you can run 10 applications on it with no effect on the beast..
5.Battery life is great..i use the phone for a lot of calls...2 hours daily on average + full push email ..the battery would run the whole business day but not a full 24 hours...week ends it run for 30 hours ..
6. Voice quality in phones is terrific.
7. does not support simultaneous voice and data..so when calls are on ,data connections are off..my old e61 support this.
8. I confirm the touch screen needs some pressure above average compared to other pdas..
9. It is a very fast phone...way faster than my JasJar.
10. SPB mobile shell works without any problem for me ..perhaps the rom i have is compatible with it..
11. Key board is a bit small and awkward to use but this is the compromise for the very small form factor..
12. non standard usb charger port sucks..but the compromise is that you have 2 batteries. if you want standard go for a nokia..every place you go to you can find a compatible charger with someone around..
13. When using it to supply internet connectivity to m laptop via connection sharing ,the signal lock was weak compared to the nokia e61 ,but was very good compared to the jasjar.. signal was not lost but was lower than the nokia. Although in voice call it is superior to the nokia..
14. data connection on it is 90% stable, i get sometimes disconnected from my exchange push email server/
Generally i was not gonna buy a new WM phone but this one restored my faith in the platform..
The platform is very powerful but not as stable as the symbian (IMHO), but this one proved to me that this is microsoft's mistake leaving ROMs to be released as pleased by OEM with no proper supervision while symbain is not as open a WM hence controlled..Samsung is one exception in releasing good ROMs(so are ETEN to by the way)
This is first PPC phone with stock Rom i ever used that is 100% working and stable..
Extremely recommended if you like the form factor

320x320 not dat bad iv always wanted a device thats got equal wxh 2.5" i780 vs HP iPAQ 910c what wins

It'd be great if someone with an i780 would post some screenshots of some different applications and games in landscape and portrait so that those of us skeptical about the 320 x 320 screen can see how apps created for a 4:3 or 3:4 aspect ratio translate to the square screen!
Thanks in advance!

Icefeldt said:
320x320 .... thats a no go!
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Click to collapse
open your mind! that's all I have to say

ksameh said:
Generally i was not gonna buy a new WM phone but this one restored my faith in the platform..
The platform is very powerful but not as stable as the symbian (IMHO), but this one proved to me that this is microsoft's mistake leaving ROMs to be released as pleased by OEM with no proper supervision while symbain is not as open a WM hence controlled..Samsung is one exception in releasing good ROMs(so are ETEN to by the way)
This is first PPC phone with stock Rom i ever used that is 100% working and stable..
Extremely recommended if you like the form factor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
overall, I agree with what you have said, especially your parting comments.
MS biggest mistake is to leave to OEM to finalise the image, and it doesn't help when all OEM just take the image as it is and released to the market.
Motorola, Samsung are the only two I have seen where they did more to the ROM, then just pack them into the box with the hardware and sell it off as a WM phones.

since this is an appreciation thread for i780, I would share my own writeup of the phone, which in my opinon, is one of the better, if not best, WM phones I have come acrossed so far.
Take note that I don't really have good impression of Samsung products, as my wife's previous two Samsung phones (non WM phones) always ended up with some reception problem.
PS: If you know the Chinese name for Samsung, literally it means "3 Star", and i780, definitely worth more than "3 Star"
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Samsung launched its flagship qwerty product, Samsung SGH-i78,0 a couple of months ago and it has been the talking point in the “geek” town. Having tried its previous qwerty models, I had my reservation. The impressive technical specification and corresponding internet reviews, however led me to take a huge step. I finally sold my trusty Motorola Q9h and got myself a Samsung i780. So is this ultra slim Microsoft Windows Mobile-based smart phone liveing up to its reputation? After using it for a few days, here’s my take;
http://www.zenyee.com/2008/06/23/a-three-stargadget-that-is-rated-higher-than-three-star/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i780 is awesome- if get to know it
Yes - this phone can be your dream phone
use realvga to increase the resolution
use ae buttonplus to custom map your keys
and upgrade to the wm6.1 build from samsung

Are There Any Good Front Facing Qwerty Devices?

My Samsung BlackJack II aka i617 has kicked the bucket and I'm using my old Moto Razr until I find a replacement. I'm not inquiring you to search google for me, I just would like to know if you know any that are decent. I want another Front-Facing QWERTY device, but I can't think of many that are 'Smartphones' and of that form factor except for these few I have below:
Samsung OmniaPro B7330--------------------------Palm Treo Pro
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I'd prefer it to have a Touch-screen (not a requirement though) and must have fairly modern specs. Also are there any Android phones that meet this requirement? I willing to take recommendations for all OS's as long as it's fairly customizable.

Unfortunately, touchscreen devices with a frontal qwerty keyboard are terrible.
The Samsung Epix is a decent touch screen device. It has a stylus and optical navigation pad that can be used just like a laptop mouse pad (meaning their is a mouse cursor). However, the keyboard is ridiculously terrible and unintuitive.
There is also the Palm Pixi which has a keyboard and touchscreen right in front of you. However, the keyboard is very, very minimalist and small. The keyboard is also very bad.
There really are no good devices with a frontal keyboard and touchscreen interface. At least, not yet.
Luckily, their is a new Sony Ericsson phone coming out real soon. It's called the Sony Ericsson Aspen. It will not by amazing in terms of technical aspects because the processor is presumed to be around 500 megahertz, which is slow for a Windows Mobile device. But from my experiences with qwerty keyboards on phones like these, the Sony Ericsson Aspen will have a pretty good keyboard.
If you really need the quick access and efficiency of a smart phone keyboard, I highly suggest you to purchase a Nokia E-series device or a BlackBerry device. These phones lack the touchscreen, but they excel in this form factor. Windows Mobile and Touch Screen phones do not excel in this form factor.
I suggest the Nokia E72, it is fast and efficient with a great keyboard. However, the BlackBerry 9000 or the BlackBerry 9700 have an even better keyboard.
So here is a quick summary:
According to the form factor that you're looking for, Touch Screen devices have terrible keyboards and are inefficient. However, Nokia E-series devices or BlackBerry Bold Series devices tend to have the better keyboards and are designed to work really well with their operating system.
Just know this if you decide to listen to me: Nokia E-series devices have a good non-touch screen operating system. BlackBerry devices are designed for email and messaging and have the best of the best keyboards with this form factor, but I think that the operating system is a bit boring and lack software development.

Thanks for the reply poetryrocksalot. I was considering the Pixi Plus, but the only models available so far are CDMA and i need a unlocked phone.
When I said fairly modern specs, I meant a phone that didn't have hardware from 2006. I just neeed something that was faster than my previous phone, the Samsung i617. Also what I meant was that I would like something with a touch-screen but it's not biggy if it doesn't.

krjcook said:
Thanks for the reply poetryrocksalot. I was considering the Pixi Plus, but the only models available so far are CDMA and i need a unlocked phone.
When I said fairly modern specs, I meant a phone that didn't have hardware from 2006. I just neeed something that was faster than my previous phone, the Samsung i617. Also what I meant was that I would like something with a touch-screen but it's not biggy if it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Nokia E72 has a ARM 11 600 MHz processor, 5 Megapixel camera, Modern Look, Decent RAM considering the average RAM size for Symbian devices, LED Flash, 3.5 mm headphone jack, active noise cancellation microphone technology, up-to-date S60 Series 3rd Edition OS (considering the fact that it came out fairly recently), a microsd card slot, accelerometer, optical trackpad, FM Radio receiver, Digital Compass built in, flashlight integration.
BTW, of all of these devices, the Nokia E72 has the best camera (except for the Sony Ericsson Aspen).
The Palm Pixi Plus has a 2 Megapixel Camera, no FM Radio, no flashlight integration (you need someone to develop software and it isn't out yet), no microsd card and only 8 gb of memory for now, no digital compass built in, no active noise cancellation, and the OS is in it's infant stages
The only thing that makes the Pixi modern over the E72 is that the Pixi is a touch screen device. Furthermore, it's 2010 and the Sony Ericsson Aspen hasn't even came out yet, but it is a disappointment to see that it has 3 megapixel camera.
I am really against purchasing a Palm Pixi plus. By purchasing this, I think that you are basically saying: "I don't really care about the front facing keyboard, I just care that it has a capacitive touch screen and a fun interface". If this is your priority than I really hope you purchase a WebOS device with atleast a 3.5 inch diagonally long screen.
By the way, the Nokia E72 has been praised for being one of the fastest Nokia device out there right now. Symbian devices do not need as much CPU as windows mobile devices, so the processors are usually ARM processors around 400 megahertz. Even the Nokia N97 has a 400 megahertz CPU. The E72 is an exception.

HTC Trophy.... But it aint out yet.

adamdon89 said:
HTC Trophy.... But it aint out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, I can not believe I totally forgot about this device. I should have mentioned it.
However, there are some things to mention. This image is fake rendition by an unofficial artist
Here is the link and some proof: http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/recent-htc-trophy-image-looks-good-but-fake-artist-render
Here is the actual image that was leaked: http://www.techdigest.tv/HTC Trophy.jpg
I am looking forward for HTC to implement the artist rendition!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget the Maple, I love it's keyboard, although the HTC inner circle which is heavily hyped on it isn't that great, but it has no touch screen

cmstackar said:
Don't forget the Maple, I love it's keyboard, although the HTC inner circle which is heavily hyped on it isn't that great, but it has no touch screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right!
HTC Maple
It´s one of the best options for bar smartphones
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1782&c=htc_snap_s521__captain_htc_maple_100

Please don't get the HTC Maple. It's very low end.
I suggest waiting for the HTC Trophy to be officially announced or for the Sony Ericsson Aspen. Or get the successor to the E72 if it comes out.

Completely disagree
Have you had one?
or you just talking light
It´s one of the best actual options
Trophy looks nice but it´s not here today for sale
Here the low end specs:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1826&id2=1782

Thanks for the reply. I've decided that I'm going with a windows standard device, because their cheap and simple then I'll upgrade to Windows Phone 7 or Android later this year. But the problem is that now I'm stuck choosing between the HTC Snap and Samsung OmniaPro B7330. They have similar specs, except that the OmniaPro has a Bigger Screen, More Ram & Rom, a higher res camera, and It's cheaper everywhere i look. Here's a link to the comparison: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1826&id2=2032
Is HTC's software good enough to waiver the samsung better spec and lower price tag.

Hopefully this will be the successor of Samsung i780/Epix.
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=15101

krjcook said:
Thanks for the reply. I've decided that I'm going with a windows standard device, because their cheap and simple then I'll upgrade to Windows Phone 7 or Android later this year. But the problem is that now I'm stuck choosing between the HTC Snap and Samsung OmniaPro B7330. They have similar specs, except that the OmniaPro has a Bigger Screen, More Ram & Rom, a higher res camera, and It's cheaper everywhere i look. Here's a link to the comparison: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1826&id2=2032
Is HTC's software good enough to waiver the samsung better spec and lower price tag.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that the software is much better, but the keyboard is phenomenal on the snap, 2nd favorite keyboard on any mobile device. And if the keyboard is anything like Samsung's other models, it will be decent, but not great

I'm really optimistic about the Samsung Pivot. If the device we're seeing now is the actual release model, than I would definitely get it. It reminds me of the Nokia E61 (terrific keyboard!).
This is the Samsung Pivot:
This is the Nokia E61:

Horrible designs indeed...

poetryrocksalot said:
Unfortunately, touchscreen devices with a frontal qwerty keyboard are terrible.
The Samsung Epix is a decent touch screen device. It has a stylus and optical navigation pad that can be used just like a laptop mouse pad (meaning their is a mouse cursor). However, the keyboard is ridiculously terrible and unintuitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you owned the Epix? I have, and it is a very good device. I had it for 2 years, never had a problem like everyone else says. I had mobile shell on it for a bit running fine, then switched to manilla 2D with real vga. The keyboard was great, much better than flat keyboards. I typed faster than anyone I knew could on other phones, I even used to type up notes in class.
However it has been discontinued, so the chances of getting a new one are very slim. It just didn't have the appeal and didn't sell, but with windows 6.1, maybe a possible official 6.5 upgrade(doubtful since it was discontinued, however ms website says april 2010), and everything an htc device has except for a g sensor and a perfect touch flo. I liked it, too bad mine decided to stay in my pocket when I went for a swim. HTC Touch Diamond 2 in 3 days wooohoo

brunodemelo said:
Have you owned the Epix? I have, and it is a very good device. I had it for 2 years, never had a problem like everyone else says. I had mobile shell on it for a bit running fine, then switched to manilla 2D with real vga. The keyboard was great, much better than flat keyboards. I typed faster than anyone I knew could on other phones, I even used to type up notes in class.
However it has been discontinued, so the chances of getting a new one are very slim. It just didn't have the appeal and didn't sell, but with windows 6.1, maybe a possible official 6.5 upgrade(doubtful since it was discontinued, however ms website says april 2010), and everything an htc device has except for a g sensor and a perfect touch flo. I liked it, too bad mine decided to stay in my pocket when I went for a swim. HTC Touch Diamond 2 in 3 days wooohoo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not own the device but I have handled the device and typed on it every time I have the chance when I see one. The keyboard is terrible.
The BlackBerry on the other hand is very, very good.
I bet you really like Windows Mobile...well if the Samsung Epix had the keyboard shape and form of a BlackBerry, than I am pretty sure that you are would like your Epix even more.
Anyways, sources say that the Samsung Pivot will be like the successor to the Epix. Fortunately the keyboard is like old E61 keyboard which is a keyboard that is actually better than the new E72 keyboard.
I understand that the Epix keyboard have a more honest feedback (meaning that you are certain that you clicked a button), however, the keys are very firm. You really need to press a little on the keys for the input. Firm keys prevent typing fast. Productivity takes a bit more time on these keyboards. The E72 and the BlackBerry have less firm keys meaning that speed typing is permissible.
Also, the best way to test keyboard is to do a speed run typing on the Epix and the BlackBerry 9700. That is what I did. The results are that I am less likely to make a typographical error on the BlackBerry 9700 than the Epix when I typed the same sentence at full speed.

poetryrocksalot said:
I do not own the device but I have handled the device and typed on it every time I have the chance when I see one. The keyboard is terrible.
The BlackBerry on the other hand is very, very good.
I bet you really like Windows Mobile...well if the Samsung Epix had the keyboard shape and form of a BlackBerry, than I am pretty sure that you are would like your Epix even more.
Anyways, sources say that the Samsung Pivot will be like the successor to the Epix. Fortunately the keyboard is like old E61 keyboard which is a keyboard that is actually better than the new E72 keyboard.
I understand that the Epix keyboard have a more honest feedback (meaning that you are certain that you clicked a button), however, the keys are very firm. You really need to press a little on the keys for the input. Firm keys prevent typing fast. Productivity takes a bit more time on these keyboards. The E72 and the BlackBerry have less firm keys meaning that speed typing is permissible.
Also, the best way to test keyboard is to do a speed run typing on the Epix and the BlackBerry 9700. That is what I did. The results are that I am less likely to make a typographical error on the BlackBerry 9700 than the Epix when I typed the same sentence at full speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess that is the case for you. It is different for everyone, and each and every person gets used to their phone's keyboard in a few days. I can't just pick up a blackberry and hope to do a fair speed test as I am used to the Epix. Only way to find out would be someone who has never typed on either phone.
About the pivot, that thing is quite ugly. It might have a better keyboard but thats pretty much it over the Epix, and some more memory.

Chinese Blackberry clone with WM 6.1 Pro
http://www.nowsupplier.com/new-w088...one-quad-band-single-card-gps-wifi-p-378.html
This device has a keyboard and WM professional, I dont think it has a touch screen, but it looks to be a good cheap device, although it lacks 3G. Quad-band GSM and GPRS, with WiFi and TV antenna.
Just my two bits.

adamdon89 said:
HTC Trophy.... But it aint out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and it's coming soon! You can pre-order it here:
http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wir...c&utm_term=HTCTROPHYBKEU&utm_campaign=froogle

HD2 vs. N1 vs. myTouch 3g Slide

I'm looking to sell my HD2 soon and i am wondering what you all think of the said devices.
Reviews from other sites aren't good enough..
Pros//Cons of each?
Also, should i just wait a little longer and find out more about "Project Emerald"?
Thanks in advance.

There you are: full comparison
I would stay with Leo as I like WM

orb3000 said:
There you are: full comparison
I would stay with Leo as I like WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the MT3G, not MT3G Slide.. just a heads up.
-mak

True
Well OP can change that on XDA database to compare

I'm thinkin i'll just wait for the slide to be in stores and go mess with it then. And hopefully by that time the N1 will be in corpo stores so i can mess with it more than i've been able to.

Having had both the HD2 & now the Slide, and having played extensively with the N1 (my best friend has one)... IMHO the Mytouch Slide is the best out of all of them, but depends on what you're looking for.
HD2:
Pros
-All-around AWESOME entertainment device
-The Screen is AMAZING
-The Snapdragon Processor is smoking
-I'm partial, and have been for a while, to Windows Mobile, and love 6.5 on this device.
-I live through my corporate email & calendar, and the exchange support is just phenomenal, of course.
Cons
-The battery life SUCKS. I can literally watch the battery drain.
-It's Windows Mobile.... As much as I love it, it is REALLY starting to show it's age. Can't wait for WM7 to come out.
-It's all touch, but Swype GREATLY helps.
Nexus 1:
Pros
-Awesomely designed phone
-ANDROID, and since it's Google's personal baby, it gets the upgrade goodness earlier than everyone else.
-With eclair and beyond, the corporate support just gets better and better.
-Also has snapdragon processor.
-Android Market
Cons
-The ONLY real con I can come up with is that it's all touch. Other than that, it's a TOP NOTCH android device.
-Natively only supports exchange sync of email & contacts.
MyTouch Slide 3g:
Pros
-Exact same size, if not a little thinner than original MyTouch 3G but:
-Full slide-out qwerty keyboard
-Upgraded processor, not snapdragon, not 528 MHz, but a different family of ARM processor altogether.
-Customized HTC Sense (Espresso) Interface
-Increased Screen Size (only .2", but noticeable)
-Full coporate exchange support (mail, contacts & calendar)
Cons
-Doesn't have Snapdragon
-Doesn't natively support Live Wallpapers (I love this feature of the Nexus 1, and can't wait until it's cracked to support them)
-The number keys are a LITTLE awkwardly placed, but you REALLY do get used to it.
All in all, all 3 phones have their pros and cons, but out of all of them, I would take the MT3G Slide. My friend got jealous as he saw the Espresso interface, and slide-out keyboard.

Is there a reason you're not including the Samsung Galaxy in that comparison? It's not out yet, but also not nearly far away as project emerald. Maybe. lol Seriously though, just wondering if you excluded it for a reason

If you're asking me for the exclusion purposes then no there isn't a reason. I know it is an awesome device with great capabilities but i like sense, or plain vanilla android. I've seen different hands on with the Galaxy and didn't like the Samsung's UI over android so it didn't really cross my mind. Also the N1 and the MT3GS are closer in release than the Galaxy. Project Emerald was just thrown in there. I doubt this device very much. Also i do like WM 6.5 on my HD2 but i'm finding that i have to soft and hard reset my device too many times for my personal taste. And the battery life is absolutely atrocious. I don't use all of the exchange or outlook things so that's no problem for me.
Thank you guys for your time.
EDIT: necorbin, how did you get a slide??

What phone to go for?

edit: for the most up-to-date indecisive rambling, just jump to the most recent post, though feel free to peruse the whole thread.
I understand this is a very difficult question to answer, especially given that no two people's needs are ever quite the same but I'm just looking for some ideas/a sounding board.
I currently have a Touch HD which I have been quite happy with, I really quite like TouchFlo, but it's starting to show it's age and I'm due an upgrade in about a fortnight anyway.
At the moment, given what's available on the market, Android is the only choice IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against WinMo/WinPho but I'm not buying a phone that won't be properly upgradeable and therefore, arguably, rendered obsolete in a couple of months and I'm definitely not waiting two months plus for a new phone on the off-chance I like what I see.
As for the rest, Symbian's a joke; Blackberrys aren't my thing; Palm is not an option; and the iPhone, well unless they announce something pretty damned special on Monday, my dislike of iTunes alone is enough to put me off - before we even get onto the flaws with the handset(s)...
In terms of what I want, that's where it all gets a bit difficult.
I can't work out if I want to go for an all-out powerful handset à la the Desire or the upcoming Samsung Galaxy S or if I want something a bit less fancy, the Sony Ericsson X10 Mini being a prime example - trading off absolute power for benefits in terms of size and cost.
My worry about a high-end handset is that I get one, then a month or two, or even a week or two, later, something else comes along that makes me regret my decision - not least the impending WinPho 7 release and all the potentially 'awesome' new handsets that will accompany that.
With the X10 Mini, I'm not too worried about something better arriving in the near-future, I think it's too niche a device to end up with much competition but, having read the review of it on GSMArena, it seems that my biggest concern is the handset's Achilles Heel - the low screen res. If it was even HVGA, I would probably just go for it but QVGA is pushing usability.
Anyway, yeah, I'm just looking to bounce ideas/suggestions around, so if anyone wants to chip in, please feel free.

Nexus one is my phone of choice at the moment. I've just made the jump to Android and this device is nothing short of awesome! The 2.2 upgrade will be rolled out soon which brings several improvements too. (It is available already but this early release isn't very polished yet. I'm waiting for the OTA release).
Unusually for me i'm keeping this device stock, so no custom ROM flashing etc. It's just such an improvement over the WM phones that i'm used to that i don't feel the need to change anything. I could harp on for hours about all the features that makes this such a good device but you should have a look around instead and make your own informed decision. There are lots of good forums devoted to this device but i'd start with the dedicated xda, nexus one section.

Thanks.
If I were going for a high-end Android device, then it would be the Desire and not the Nexus One - partly because I like the Sense UI and partly because I wouldn't entertain the idea of switching to Vodafone, their tariffs aren't competitive and their coverage is poor where I stay.
I have played extensively with the Desire and it is a lovely phone but, as I said previously, I'm concerned that if I upgraded to it, I'd only want to change again when say the Galaxy S comes out or in a couple of months when WinPho 7 arrives.
Obviously, there's a chance that would be the same if I went for the X10 Mini but I would be able to get it on such a cheap deal instead, that the idea of then choosing to shell out for a new device a few months down the line isn't so bad.
I'm also starting to question whether I need all the features that the Desire/Nexus One offers as opposed to merely wanting them.
I bought myself a laptop back in January and, since then, I'm using the web a lot less on my phone, so do I really need something with a huge, high-res screen?
Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated (as is anyone else's opinions/ideas), I fear I've a bit of thinking ahead of me yet though...

At the moment, there are a few phones that I'm considering and I'm trying to weigh them all up, so I'd appreciate any input, suggestions or ideas anyone can offer up.
First up, the HTC Desire
Pros:
HTC Sense
Decent CPU and RAM
AMOLED screen
HTC handset - excellent build quality and 2 year warranty
Cons:
No HD video
Screen is only AMOLED, not sAMOLED
It's already sold a lot and, as sad as it is, I don't really like the idea of having the same phone as everyone else
Samsung Galaxy S
Pros:
superAMOLED screen
HD video
CPU that's potentially even more powerful than the Snapdragon in the Desire
Samsung handset - 2 year warranty
Cons:
No HTC Sense
Even worse, it uses Samsung's childish UI
No camera flash - seriously, wtf?
Not yet released
Motorola XT720
Pros:
8MP, HD video, Xenon flash - the best camera on an Android handset just now
480x854 screen resolution - more pixels are never a bad thing
[edit] HDMI out - a real boon for an HD-recording handset [/edit]
Cons:
LCD screen - not even AMOLED, let alone sAMOLED
480x854 screen resolution - non-standard resolution may cause some app compatibility issues
No LED flash for video use - a minor point but the ideal camera phone would have LED and Xenon
Question marks over CPU compared to the Desire or Galaxy S (720MHz OMAP A8 Cortex as opposed to 1GHz Snapdragon/Hummingbird on other handsets)
No HTC Sense
Motorola handset - 1 year warranty, not sure of build quality
Not available until the start of next month
Sony Ericsson X10 Mini
Pros:
Tiny size
Well thought-out UI
Cheap
Sony Ericsson handset - 2 year warranty
TINY!
Cons:
Small screen size and resolution - will have a negative effect on web browsing experience and app compatibility
Only running 1.6 'Donut' with very vague upgrade roadmap
Sony Ericsson handset - questionable build quality, possible (probable?) software issues
LCD screen - not AMOLED or sAMOLED
No HD video
I know it may not seem like it, given the large number of points in the 'Cons' category for it but I'm actually drawn the most to the Motorola handset.
The problem is, having only just been released there's a number of questions I have which I can't as of yet get answers for - for example, the build quality may not be an issue but I won't know that until I can have a play with one, the CPU may not be a downside, etc etc.
Anyway, yeah, any/all input is always welcome.

ideas
i guess your best choice can be galaxy s
but if you give up on browsing(use your laptop instead) then x10mini will be the best...feature wise and price
wish you luck

I do currently use my laptop a lot for web browsing but I'm not prepared to carry it around with me every day on the off-chance I want to go online.
If the X10 Mini had even an HVGA screen instead of QVGA, then it would probably be high enough to just to alleviate my concerns - at least in terms of app compatibility, though obviously for the likes of web browsing it would never match a WVGA (or higher) handset like the others I'm considering.
As for the Galaxy S, the power, screen and HD video do appeal but leaving out a camera flash just seems so unnecessary, almost like they're doing it deliberately.
But, between that and the Samsung UI, it's just enough to sour my feelings towards it.
As I say, against my better judgement, I can't help but like the Motorola handset.
At least, unlike the Desire, by sticking with an LCD screen it should mean it's ok to use in sunlight - obviously AMOLED has it's advantages but unless you make the jump all the way up to sAMOLED then there's still a cloud attached to that silver lining.
And regarding the CPU, while there are question marks over it, I've also heard it suggested that the TI OMAP 3430 CPUs are actually more powerful than the faster-clocked Snapdragon CPUs like the Desire uses, so it could actually be a better handset than the Desire in that respect.
Also, I should probably point out that my plan when I upgrade is to negotiate as low a tariff as I can out of T-Mobile, then if I see a phone I really like partway through the contract term, I'll just buy it.
So, the shorter warranty on the Motorola may not be an issue.
Thanks for your input, even if it doesn't seem like it, it's definitely appreciated.

Ok, so here we are a full 5 months since the last post and I'm still stuck in the same situation - want, almost need, a new phone but don't know what to go for.
Since last time, obviously things have come on a long way.
Symbian has reached the next level, meaning it's only a bit behind everyone else as opposed to significantly behind; Apple announced the iPhone4 which is a nice piece of hardware but the OS and price are too big of a stmubling block; Blackberry have moved on to OS6 but really there's nothing new about it; WinPho7 was released and looks OK but the hardware is just slightly underwhelming.
As for Maemo/Meego, Bada and WebOS, they're not even worth considering IMO.
So that leaves us with the only thing I am sure about, that my next phone will be an Android handset but beyond that I've still not been able to reach a decision.
Looking back at what I was considering before, none of them are still in the running - the Motorola XT720 turned out to be a dud, the X10 Mini was plagued with problems and the Galaxy S and Desire have both been out-done by the Desire HD.
Obviously the daddy just now is the Desire HD.
The best hardware around, the best UI around, there should be no reason to even consider anything else. And yet, I'm just not taken with it, I know I should love it, I know there should be no competition but it's not exciting me.
On the other hand, against all the odds and especially since the XT720 was so poor, I find myself quite taken with the Motorola Defy.
I know that the specs aren't so great but the idea of a ruggedised handset is pretty neat and the size is just a bit more pocketable than the Desire HD's, though that's not my biggest concern.
Going in the other direction, I'm also quite taken by the Samsung Galaxy Tab.
Given how I use my phone making/receiving very few calls, mostly texting and using the internet) a larger device like the Tab is in many ways better-suited to my needs. However, it's biggest advantage is also it's biggest downfall - the larger screen makes the Tab a far less practical device than the likes of the Desire HD or the Defy (I know I said with regards to the Defy that the size difference wasn't my biggest concern but the Tab is a whole order of magnitude larger), to the point that if I decided to use the Tab as a phone, I'd need to get myself a second handset to use on occasions when the Tab's size made it impossible to take with me.
Once again, any/all help will be greatly appreciated.