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Choices: Touch or Touch Cruise?

Hi there, can u guys help me.
I'm planning to buy a PDA phone, ultimately the choices fell to either the HTC Touch or the Touch Cruise. Been reading a lot, so I know that the Touch is a bit slow, but the TCruise has driver problems.. Basically what I need is good all-around PDA, WLAN and fast processing is a must. Touch is offered at ~$500 and the TCruise at ~$800. Perhaps I would go with the Touch, if the current ROMs + o/c'ing could help improve the speed.
Which is worth the money? How bout overclocking solutions for the TCruise? Any other recommendations? Thanks, guys.

My vote
(provided I have the $$$$)
Cruise. Because of the 3G

Hi,
How's ur experience with your Touch?
Any slowdowns or anything?
Cheers!

Cruise is the only way to go...why don't you just take this ppc for a test drive to see if u like it?

@cid said:
Hi,
How's ur experience with your Touch?
Any slowdowns or anything?
Cheers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Touch is fast, hence it's only WM6 prof edition. I am still waiting for all the bugs fixed before attempting to upgrade to WM6.1.
I guess I am lucky, because I am running 4gb Sandisk and all my programs are installed onto the Storage Drive, and not on the main drive.

Ow that's great. How about overclocking and video playback at VGA res?

I am using HTC touch and its working fine..
I have no issue of slow processing..
there are some reg tricks to increase performance also
only thing it lacks is 3g.. so if you want latest phone technology and dont have money prblem then go with cruise else touch is never been bad option ..

Touch Cruise is my choice and I have both the Orbit 2 (which is a badged Touch Cruise) and the wife uses a Touch so I can compare them, the Touch is short on memory and a little sluggish when you start up a few programs, the biggest advantage the Touch Cruise has is the 3G/ HSDPA and built in GPS - well worth the price differential - Mike

The "driver" issue is just that it's hardware is not being used by its fully potential because of a lack of a video driver, isn't it?

yes, but it means that it's really slow in graphic intensive apps, because of the missing acceleration. Even the normal touch should be faster in such apps (games, video playback...).
Btw: I got the touch, and compared to other devices (e.g. hermes @ 400mhz) i think it's not that bad as everyone says.
I would take the touch again (i got the ELFin with 128mbs of ram), because it's a pretty small, stylish, cheap and also fast device. (At least i found _no_ apps, which the touch could not handle).

Thats a high price for either phone. I sell the Enhanced Touch & the Touch Cruise for much less then both prices you listed. I am not saying to buy from me, but I am saying that you should not be paying those prices for either phone.
I love the Touch Enhanced because of its size. I love the Touch Cruise because of its 3G.
I am using an Atom life. It is basically the size of the Touch (minus the Flush Screen) but has a processor thats 3 times as fast (great for watching videos) and has 1900 for US 3G.

I am using HTC Touch Elfin (128MB RAM and 256MB ROM) and its working fine..but, I Like cruise because of its 3G, GPS, more faster (400Mhz)..but high price (1200u$d in Argentina) .

HTC TRINITY vs HTC WIZARD .....which is better?

I need some expert advice ....HTC TRINITY vs HTC WIZARD .....which is better? thanks in advance for any feedback.please keep in mind I don't care about GPS so please dont take that into consideration.

Trinity has Umts, faster processor (although i never recognised a great difference to an omap), better camera..
wizard has a keyboard

macmallow said:
faster processor (although i never recognised a great difference to an omap),
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yeah thats my main question.....i mean the Samsung processor is "faster" in terms of clock speed but will i really notice a big performance difference from the OMAP(which i run at 273mhz)??

ranasrule said:
yeah thats my main question.....i mean the Samsung processor is "faster" in terms of clock speed but will i really notice a big performance difference from the OMAP(which i run at 273mhz)??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This depends on what you are doing with your device.
Two things where you will really feel a difference: Playing videos and and browsing the internet.

In my opinion, if you have either of them, you won't gain a lot by swithing to the other, unless you really need a feature the other one provides (such as 3G or keyboard).
Better to save for a better device next time. For example, the Tytn II when it drops in price.

ranasrule said:
yeah thats my main question.....i mean the Samsung processor is "faster" in terms of clock speed but will i really notice a big performance difference from the OMAP(which i run at 273mhz)??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my opinion: _NO_
although many people would say something different, i say that my touch @ 273 mhz is at least as fast as my old hermes @ 400 mhz.
The only app, where my hermes was faster was in video playback, because of the ati imageon decoder.
In that case, my touch gets 40 fps (@273 mhz), and my hermes 60.

Game emulators - performance

Hi,
i just wondered about the Touch Pro's performance since it has more memory or isn't it significant enough?
Can you run PS-games smoothly?
What about SNES/GBA-games?
And with a keyboard it should be more fun to play with.
But i have heard about problems about it.
If you slide the keyboard out it automatically switches to parnoma-mode and you can't even start your programmes....
Also one further question, what do you think?
Iphone3G vs. Touch Pro
On which device will the games run more smoothly?
I have watched some youtube-vids of some ps-games on the Iphone, but it was just horribly slow.
Well considering the hardware , CPU:624mhz and a gpu, i just can't imagine that it will run better on the Pro, or?

The iPhone CPU is underclocked by a fair amount to conserve battery power.

What, really?
Even with applications on?
And what about the HTC Touch Pro, ist it also underclocked?
I have read something like about 25-30fps, and what i have watched on Youtube with Iphone, it was never 25fps.

SNES/GBA-games run fairly well on the HTC Touch pro, but still a bit slowish.
Most of the Playstation roms i tried crashed, but the few that did work also are slow.
But 25-30fps? no way - not even close. where have you read that?
I have the feeling that the 640x480 resolution sucks the performance out of a lot of games, compared to a 400mhz 320x240 device.
Also the hardware buttons are - although stylish - complete crap for playing games, so you have to use the on-screen controls or us the slide-out keyboard.
Clearly, the Touch Pro is not a gaming device

I have read it in the Diamond forum.
Can't you lower the resolution?
Hm, Perhaps i should get the Omnia with its low resolution^^
But which one has the better GPU?
I mean, all of the three have dedicated GPUs.
It's a pity because it is "only" a problem of the software (emulator).
I mean with PSP, you can run PS/SNES/GBA-games.

Has anyone tried Enigmo with the T PRO?
It's a 3D accelerated game my friend showed me on his Dell Axiom v50

Meh.
I don't wanna buy an almost 1000$ now.
Just the emulators aren't good enough.
I will buy cheap and good mobile phone and a PSP.
I thought i could get everything in one device....

Hm, Perhaps i should get the Omnia with its low resolution^^.
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With the Omnia you will definetively have better performance (lower resolution, faster cpu).
But which one has the better GPU?
I mean, all of the three have dedicated GPUs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't matter for emulation, they are not using it!
It's a pity because it is "only" a problem of the software (emulator).
I mean with PSP, you can run PS/SNES/GBA-games.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's always a great difference, if you program for a specific hardware or for an operating system. e.g. console - pc

So, how hard would it be to rewrite a current emulator to utilize a gpu? Specifically the SNES emulators, it looks like they haven't been touched in ages and they have always been generally slow.

There is a Snes emulator that uses the Diamond GPU...

there is? do you have a link/name of the emulator?

Mr.Sir said:
There is a Snes emulator that uses the Diamond GPU...
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Click to collapse
It's just not fair to say that and not tell us what that emulator is, LOL.
I've been a little disappointed in the Touch Pro's performance with emulators - but I kind of expected that. VGA screens are very slow for emulation, though they do make games that aren't even designed for that resolution more stunning. IE - Contra for the NES looks better on my Touch Pro than my 6700 (QVGA).
However, nes on smartgear is nearly fullspeed (disappointing that it's not . . .), Turbographics is also close to fullspeed, but occasionally has jittery play. Genesis on picodrive is smooth, but not 100% speed - occasional slowdowns. CPS1 & 2 games on Finalburn are very smooth, but again - just a little too slow. I haven't gotten neo geo games to work at all for some reason.
I'd originally wanted to connect my phone to a tv and play from my couch, but I think performance would be completely too slow.

Mr.Sir said:
There is a Snes emulator that uses the Diamond GPU...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone know what this emulator is? Does it exist?

I can´t remember the name but it uses open gles which should be supported because Call of Duty Open Gles version runs hw accelerated.

P0ll0L0c0 said:
It's just not fair to say that and not tell us what that emulator is, LOL.
I've been a little disappointed in the Touch Pro's performance with emulators - but I kind of expected that. VGA screens are very slow for emulation, though they do make games that aren't even designed for that resolution more stunning. IE - Contra for the NES looks better on my Touch Pro than my 6700 (QVGA).
However, nes on smartgear is nearly fullspeed (disappointing that it's not . . .), Turbographics is also close to fullspeed, but occasionally has jittery play. Genesis on picodrive is smooth, but not 100% speed - occasional slowdowns. CPS1 & 2 games on Finalburn are very smooth, but again - just a little too slow. I haven't gotten neo geo games to work at all for some reason.
I'd originally wanted to connect my phone to a tv and play from my couch, but I think performance would be completely too slow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got metal slug to work and it runs very well. Are they not showing up or just not running? Ghost and goblins runs smooth too.
P.S. what emulator are u using for nes?

P0ll0L0c0 said:
VGA screens are very slow for emulation, though they do make games that aren't even designed for that resolution more stunning
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Why do you guys always link VGA to slow? So wrong...
Dell Axim x51v has an VGA screen. Performance? Google it. And it's a PPC from 2005.
Anyway, it would be nice if someone, who played a bit with emulators, will construct a list with TP-compatible emulators.

I haven't been able to get a cache to build. I'm trying again now, so hopefully I can get even ONE neo geo game to load, LOL.
*edit: I was able to get neo geo roms to run. I don't think a cache will build with kfortouchpro running in the background. The cache builds very fast after that. Unfortunately, performance is a little sluggish with sound enabled.
For NES it's Smartgear. I payed for it (I think $10), since it has the distinction of being by far the best TG16 emulator for PPC. It also emulates gb, sms, and genesis without all sound features. Also it had been reported to work best on VGA devices.

If anyone knows the name of the SNES emulator - I know a lot of us would appreciate knowing. SNES has always been sluggish, even on faster QVGA machines.

I was wondering if remapping programs make any difference in being able to map buttons for emulators such as PocketCultMAME and pocketgnuboy. I would really like to be able to play games in portrait mode rather than in landscape. Has anyone got either of these emulators to work on the Fuze in portrait mode?

I have no prob playing gba/neogeo/snes with keyboard using kfortouchpro.
For gba, I get near-30 on some games (super robot wars, for example) while unplayable sub-5fps on others (need for speed).
Neogeo is consistently around or above 20fps (mostly action/platform, and things like marvel vs capcom work too).
Genesis works around that fps, although not the fastest.
Snes is a different story. It's much slower, but I found final fantasy 6 to be playable with some adjustments to frame skip. All that is without sound, btw.

Which version of TouchFLO 3D??

which version of TouchFLO 3D takes up less CPU which means i guess lower battery consumption?? but which one?? im currently running XBMods TF3D Rhodium version, and i was wondering if the older TouchFLO 3Ds like the stock ones u get in the Diamond and Raphael uses less CPU power and lower battery consumption...help would be nice..thanks

anyone?? i need at least an answer so i can look into other TF3Ds

TF3D
i dont think there really is much of a difference between the 2, however, as you've probably noticed, TF3D 2 takes up ALOT more RAM so you'd be better off sticking with the stock TF3D if you want better performance and (potentially) better battery life

scroll stutter

Why is the scroll stutter in sensation or in Android in general? WM7 or iPhone has it smooth from their first phone release.. is it something to do with screen refresh rate? Or its more OS related? Dont tell me that your android is smooth as hell..
For example when i scroll the app drawer or the settings page, i see stutter. I admit that some places (in some ROM) its smooth but most places its not. For instance, if you pan photos, its smooth.. but you scroll settings it stutters.
From a noob perspective i am guessing iphone handles "everything" like a image.. so scrolling, zooming, panning is smooth like we do on photos.. and i guess android renders as text or something else... just my wild stupid guess..
And, is there a way to fix this? or the android OS needs to be re-written? I am upset because sensation is much higher configuration than iphone 3gs. But the stutter present in sensation (even with any ROM) is not in 3gs. So i dont beleive its hardware..
Is it the screen and the capacity touch technique used by apple? i saw one video where the iphone screen is performed almost 99% close to maximum touch accuracy and sensitivity than any other phones..
see the video below..
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/24/moto-touchscreen-comparison-recruits-robotic-implements-for-heig/
so what do you developers think?
1) Touch screen itself
2) capacitive touch technique / code used by apple
3) screen refresh rate
4) GPU rendering
5) the way OS handles the screen and images
I cant think anything else from my noob brain.. but you developers can.. anything can be done to fix this? From OS perspective.. not like my 'contacts' scroll smooth but not the browser?!

its a matter of display, its well known fact that iFail has top notch displays, whats on the other hand, basically the only possitive fact on that thing. So yes it is Apple's screen, same goes for iPad. Btw as for WP7, i own HD7 and its even worse then old Touch Cruise

shammanCZ said:
its a matter of display, its well known fact that iFail has top notch displays, whats on the other hand, basically the only possitive fact on that thing. So yes it is Apple's screen, same goes for iPad. Btw as for WP7, i own HD7 and its even worse then old Touch Cruise
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If its all about display, how come cheap replacement display units from online can achieve the same thing in iPhone?
It got a be something else...

It's because of hardware acceleration. Too lazy to explain it now
Swyped from my HTC Sensation

iPhone uses the graphics processor to handle everything, not just games/videos/flash. The whole front end (UI) uses the GPU (graphics processor) in order to make everything look smooth. In a way, this is sort of a limitation of android. Hopefully Ice Cream Sandwich fixes it (it is rumoured to).

Bernardos70 said:
iPhone uses the graphics processor to handle everything, not just games/videos/flash. The whole front end (UI) uses the GPU (graphics processor) in order to make everything look smooth. In a way, this is sort of a limitation of android. Hopefully Ice Cream Sandwich fixes it (it is rumoured to).
Click to expand...
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idavid_ said:
It's because of hardware acceleration. Too lazy to explain it now
Swyped from my HTC Sensation
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Had to disagree. If its GPU rendering why the scroll is smooth in gallary? why not in other text related lists? Android uses GPU only in image and videos?

Im going to take a guess here but i think its to do with hardware acceleration, coding infact of the operating system like apple code all their interfaces to be bosted from the gpu, however with android i would say that not everything is coded to run with the gpu and actually id say there isn't anything but if someone could list the support for what is that would help. From what i can find only things like the internet browser and games are in sync with cpu and gpu.

Maybe it's not only related to GPU acceleration because I'm running InsertCoin 2.2.2 ROM and ADWLauncher EX. With the stock kernel that comes with IC 2.2.2 the appdrawer and pretty much everything else (with some exceptions) is "iPhone-smooth" but when I tried the Unity 7.0 kernel I saw much more stuttering.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that Android is multi-tasking, real multi-tasking that is. iOS and WP7 (I think, haven't touched it in forever cause it's complete trash) do some save-state multi-tasking crap. Should scrolling be affected by this? I don't think performance should ever be sacrificed. But I think a lot of stuttering in the Android UI comes from it thinking about so many things at once.

I think the gallery is hardware accelerated.
Some things are, some things aren't. Comparison for ya: use Opera then Use the stock browser. Opera is hardware accelerated (uses GPU for rendering). See how smooth it is? Now use the stock browser and compare.
Don't quote me on this, but I'm quite sure that is one of the biggies ICS is supposed to fix.
Somehow, I think Samsung has implemented hardware acceleration for the Browser on their Galaxy S and S II line of phones. This was first noticeable when the Galaxy S got upgraded from Eclair to Froyo: the browser was much smoother (albeit glitchier.... mind you, these don't necessarily go hand in hand, you can certainly make a hardware accelerated browser without the glitches).
I think that's as far as that goes. Try a hardware accelerated video player like diceplayer (free 14 day trial in the market). Try playing a 720p or even 1080p video with it. It'll be smooth. Now go into options and change the renderer to software. Now it won't be hardware accelerated. And it'll be a slideshow.

It seems to me more of an issue of software optimization. Try scrolling with Sense 3.0 and then compare it to a sense-less rom, completely different. And then things change again depending on which launcher you choose to use. The Sensation's hardware is completely capable of buttery-smooth scrolling, it's just a matter of time till developers iron out the small kinks in their roms.

it looks like everyone thinks GPU is the reason for ios smooth scrolling. well, do you really think the first iphone released in 2007 has a powerful GPU and used for everything ios does? the 2007 first iphone does the scrolling smooth and the 2011 sensation cannot. i strongly believe its not the hardware!!! i guess there something wrong in the basics and google let samsung and htc finding their own solutions for some of the apps they create on top of android.
something else is wrong and since the users are not greatly concerned (or expressed) about this, this is not fixed yet. I wish and hope ICS fix this issue somehow..

I have been trying to find additional information about this issue and the truth is that this is the only thread that people have actually started to talk about it. If i got this right you are refering to the periodic stutter within scrolling in android and not any asynchronous glitches. Even though many blame GPUs, non HW acc. interfaces and so on, to me its a clear cut situation of refresh rates/fps clashes. Its the same scenario of outputing a 24fps movie to 60Hz monitor where ull get the same kind of periodic stutter (something almost eliminated when u switch to 50Hz). Its got nothing to do with wether the monitor is CRT or LCD, it all comes down to refresh rate vs fps. Ive clearly seen that on my O2x where, hdmi mirroring (on a 60Hz FullHD TV) is perfectly fluent while there are some visible periodic stutters everywhere within the android enviroment, except 3D applications. And what do you know.. The O2X's display has a 72Hz refresh rate! Isnt there anywhere within the android OS where devs/users can have a go with this? Changing the ' transmiting' fps of the whole OS? Let me know what u think sundar