Related
Leaked roms:
Have a look at this thread on Pocket PC Thoughts:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/for...48&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
It discusses this question:
Are you desperate enough to try a "iffy" ROM on your device just to get to Windows Mobile 6? And Does Palm have any of the blame resting on it's shoulders for bricked devices given their non-existant communication with users regarding the timeline for this upgrade?
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Should we use leaked roms? Why do we use leaked and cooked roms?
V
My reply to that thread. And as I said to my soon-to-be-disappointed wife on my wedding night: it's a big one.
I tend to live most of my online life over at XDA Devs, but this is an interesting question for all hackers and tweakers:
As enthusiasts, we spend an enormous amount of time introducing instability into our systems, tweaking, refining, rebooting, registry editing, hacking, reverse engineering, re-writing, reflashing, pleading to forgiving better-halves and generally suffering from trichotillomania.
Why? So that at the end of the day we can come out with a new tweak, or a new rom, that's 0.01% faster, has a shinier bar at the bottom, tweaks the carrier logo, or whatever's your poison.
I'm a little bit of a PPC nerd, but I have the enormous pleasure of rubbing shoulders with some of the smartest hackers I've ever known. We all work hard, doing a job that we should not have to do: we spend our hard-earned time to improve the device that we've spent our hard earned cash on.
In an ideal world, Microsoft would have made the operating system perfect, and would merely push improvements to us, over the air, transparently, every week, and our WM2003 devices would have self upgraded themselves to WM6 by now.
However, due to the agreements and the way that most of the Mobile Phone Operators operate, any build improvements from Microsoft, the manufacturer (eg HTC), or indeed the phone company (eg Orange) must get pushed to the Operator, who will then rebrand it, test it (because of course, we never want buggy upgrades), decide whether to charge for it, and finally get around to releasing it some months later. Or: maybe they will just decide to sit on it and never release it, as it will impact sales for the devices that have become more relevant in the intervening period.
I love my phone (HTC Hermes), as an extension of my daily life. I like to tweak it, here and there, there and here. I know I waste a disproportionate amount of time doing so, often for little practical gain. But why then? Because we're enthusiasts, and that's what we do.
So, if Microsoft dangles a carrot in front of our face in 2005, and tells us they're going to release WM6 to manufacturers, that's great news! And if they tell us, it's hardware compatible with WM5, that's even better news! Now we just have to wait for HTC and Orange et al to release it to into our outstretched hands.
But.... sometimes, things don't work like that. It requires effort to rewrite drivers for the new OS. To test compatibility with the new upgrades. To ensure nothing crashes, or is less stable, or won't randomly drop calls. This requires investment. And investment demands cash returns. So, it only really makes sense for the operator to release a tested, substantial upgrade if they can get something out of it: whether that's improved goodwill, or just a a few dollars/pounds/won... and you know: sometimes, it makes sense not to release it all!
Why upgrade the HTC Wizard to WM6, when it will cannibalise sales from "true" WM6 devices like the Keiser? So, commercial decisions may just come down to the hard truth: they're not going to upgrade your phone, even though it can, because it's not commercially sensible to do so.
Understand: I have absolutely no problems with that. Our phone manufacturers are in Business, so random acts of generosity are few and far between. It makes sense to sell a million new handsets, then to allow the last million to upgrade.
However, if we can upgrade, should we not try? Should we not try to get the most out of the hardware we've spent our money on and are happy with?
So, speaking for the xda guys and gals, we are, as lawyers would say (and I am a lawyer, so I say it), somewhat reckless as to the consequences of our actions! We dive into the latest upgrade, take it apart, strip it down, build tools to decrypt, decompile, recompile, reflash, and ultimately cook your own DIY rom. The guys (and gals) are enthusiasts, and will try to tweak and refine. It takes time for us because often we don't know what we're doing, and have to do it all from the ground up [and don't forget: support your local rom chef. PLEASE don't complain and curse, advise and help. They work hard! And we're all people with feelings: if you prick us, do we not bleed?]
In a very very roundabout fashion, I hope I've explained a little of my personal motivation for jumping on the opportunity to upgrade. Now that doesn't always mean that I will. A brief segue, and a funny story:
I have been asked to be one of the "experts" on the Pocket PC Annual Awards. One of my perks is that they send me the latest edition of the Smartphone and Pocket PC magazine. It's HIGHLY recommended. Buy a subscription now. You will get to see a photo of me, and that alone makes it worth it.
So anyway, on the cover of this month's magazine, it proudly proclaims:
"Windows Mobile 6 phones are HERE!"
I chuckled when I saw this.
I am far from the most connected guy around, but let's say, I know "friends" that were running WM6 for getting on close to a year. Very stable, very usable versions of WM6, for various devices. These friends are generally very very careful about who has access to these leaks. And they are very concerned about the risk to the leak-er, the person giving them access to leaked roms, because people shouldn't lose jobs because of this.
So, if the "public" is wondering why leaked roms don't always get released to the masses, it's because sometimes they don't want to risk anyone getting into major trouble.
But, when possible, they try to share with the public, and to feed the useful, stable parts back into the community. And yes, cutting edges can make you bleed, sometimes. But caveat emptor.
If you do not know how to reflash and repair your phone, don't risk pre-release roms.
But, if you like to live on the bleeding edge, sometimes it's a real revelation.
The Hermes was a much better device with WM6, and the Universal suddenly became much more usable.
In fact - some of the pre-release roms were, from experience, better then the current "official" roms, which have slower bells and whistles, and are generally more bloaty.
So, again, caveat emptor, but if you're prepared to take the plunge, and know what you're doing, sometimes, it's worth it.
V
PS Obligatory iPhone reference: Apple once again raised the bar with manufacturer controlled upgrades - they can upgrade the phone directly through itunes, rather than waiting for AT&T to get around to it in their own time. And as iPhone hackers have seen, they pushed upgrades through very quickly. Compare that with the sporadic and tardy fashion in which the Windows Mobile community receives upgrade love.
PPS Illegal rom updates: if anyone finds anything illegal on XDA devs (or indeed this forum), let your local moderator know. I'm always happy to receive posts from concerned xda devs users.
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Vi -- EXCELLENT!! Now, where's that newest edition of Pocket PC mag??
Great post.
i realy want this game cracked but cant fin it can some one help me
Yes. Go buy it and I'll send you a crack!
LOL
hahahhha but no serious
serrious, go buy it
i thougt you guys could help me
you thought wrong.you are HelplessEver now...
soRry
do you now a funn and good quality game
Yeah! Return to the Mysterious Island - a very good game. You should definitely buy it!!!
do you hate me serius
Stop encouraging this guy by keeping his thread alive!!
Seriously, bestever, someone spent a lot of time and energy to create that game. Go buy it and show the programmer a little appreciation, rather than finding a cracked version and, basically, stealing.
How would you feel if you spent hours and hours and days and days writing a book, and you find a publisher and spend even more time - and lots of money, too - getting the book published, and as soon as it finds its way to the shelves, someone buys one, makes a gajillion photocopies of it, and started giving it free to everyone who asked. Suddenly you're not selling a single book - because everyone's getting it for free.
Wouldn't you be mad?
Seriously. Go buy the game if you like it that much.
You are joking, right?
I really find interesting everybody's opinion here, especially when considering the fact that all posts belong to a forum which is well known for it's illegal roms...
So, if I want a WM6 device I should buy one right? I shouldn't upgrade my old WM5 device, as by doing this I am not respecting the authors (aka programmers) of the new OS nor the producers (aka manufacturers) of the new devices. And they don't make profit anymore, as I don't have to buy a new device, since my old is upgraded. For example, my old Prophet runs on EXACTLY the same hardware as the Elf. But I don't have to buy the Elf anymore. Is that what your are telling us?
Great. Let's shut down this forum
The truth is that games & software are way too expensive. If they kept the prices in reasonable limits then we wouldn't consider cracking them...
i think booth have right in somewais
sorry for bad english
dj_aris said:
I really find interesting everybody's opinion here, especially when considering the fact that all posts belong to a forum which is well known for it's illegal roms...
So, if I want a WM6 device I should buy one right? I shouldn't upgrade my old WM5 device, as by doing this I am not respecting the authors (aka programmers) of the new OS nor the producers (aka manufacturers) of the new devices. And they don't make profit anymore, as I don't have to buy a new device, since my old is upgraded. For example, my old Prophet runs on EXACTLY the same hardware as the Elf. But I don't have to buy the Elf anymore. Is that what your are telling us?
Great. Let's shut down this forum
The truth is that games & software are way too expensive. If they kept the prices in reasonable limits then we wouldn't consider cracking them...
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Actually, there's a difference here. If "bestever" wanted to get a copy of the game with developing in mind - maybe create a new game based on the same engine or something - then there wouldn't be a problem. This is xda-developers.com, where people collaborate to develop new software solutions for our smartphones and pdaphones. The developers post their creations so that the masses can download, install, and essentially beta-test them. It's an intellectual exercise, and if a few people just download WM6 (for example) just for their own personal use, that's okay, the developers here don't seem to mind.
The game in question, however, was designed and is marketed as for-profit. The developer spent a lot of time and energy creating that software. If he spent a total of 40 work hours programming, editing, compiling, testing, reprogramming, and fixing bugs in this game and sold it for 20 bucks, he's making 50 cents an hour. He'd have to sell 15 copies just to hit minimum wage.
If bestever wanted to get a copy of the game to use it as a template to design his own, that's fine. At least with me. But he just doesn't want to pay for it. There's a word for that - "stealing".
On top of all that, the programmer of the game in question is not a bloodsucking monopolistic corporation worth billions of dollars and doing everything possible to squeeze every last red cent they can out of the average Earth-dweller. Whatever issues I may have with people and their illegal software downloads comes to a halt when I reach Microsoft. I don't like them, I don't like the way they do business, and I think they deserve what they get. The only reasons I use Windows PCs is because they're industry standard anymore, and I grew up using them long before I developed any sense of politics - I started at age 6 with Win3.1. The only reasons I use a Windows Mobile device is because of the huge third party app support, vastly superior abilities compared to your garden-variety cell phone, and the prohibitive cost (and lack of third party support) behind the iPhone.
If the developer of the game wanted it to be free, he'd be distributing it freely. If you like the game that much, show the developer some support and PAY FOR THE GAME. Otherwise, the game might not even exist.
I won't argue with you that the cost of games and software is way too expensive. I don't want to pay over 200 bucks for an operating system for my computer, but I don't know crap about Linux, whereas I'm very proficient in Windows (2k, XP, 2k3S, etc.) But here's the rub, and in order to be properly understood you have to be completely honest with yourself. If money wasn't a problem, if instead of making 25k/year you were making 250k/year, would you still be cracking software, or would you be buying it?
Alright guys. Let's all take a deep breath here. The age-old question of warez, and cracks and hacks won't get answered here.
If there are any moderators in sight, please delete this thread, It is totally off-topic, and should never have been allowed to propagate.
sorry for starting this
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
they are just happy to find a place where winmo doesn't get bashed constantly
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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LOL, your first post and you have a pop at this site?
You dont work for MS do you
GREAT first post.
anyway.
They tolerate it because we don't personally host anything and yes, we do make windows mobile better.
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
LOL duude...are u an attorney or do u own an iphone?
m$ knows better to keep this site alive. its their faults we are tweakin up and makin it better. beside...you never know...this draws a lot and i mean a lot of ppl towards m$. so i m pretty much sure the revenue keeps em' happy
yesod7 said:
There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone
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One here!!!
microsoft never sold wm to any end user
and this site never taken part in porting wm to a device that dident came with it
more because of the close to impossibility of doing so
so as ms still get their licensense from the manufactors
and better rep with users who can get more out of their devices then just
depending on what the manfucators give before they forget about older devices
and move on to their new stuff
more wm phone owners keep getting new wm devices rather then moving to iphones or symbian devices so
it helps ms out alot in their quest of getting a larger % of the market
Plus, along with the free tech ehlp, the improving of current phones, we all know new htc phones will be tweaked cooked and stuff, so buy another phone. so XDA not only saves tehm money, but actually gains them money
It's because of this site that I'm looking at the Windows Mobile platform for my next phone rather than traditional Nokia, Sony Ericsson (other than x1), or even the iPhone..... actually come to think of it, without the exisitence of this site EVER, I would get an iPhone 3G right away.
you will see that in the coming future microsoft will be incorporating programs and devs that were created through this site to their platform. There was once a time when microsoft tried to shut it down when they realised that the site actually brings more people to microsoft and keeps them there.
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
yesod7 said:
Also, this site actively opposes software theft, (warez and others like it,) which is the bulk of any copyright problems. It spreads goodwill towards Microsoft, believe it or not; if users have problems with standard Microsoft software, they don't have to just sit there and be unhappy, it can be tweaked. By doing so, people are happier with their Microsoft-driven equipment, and more likely to keep using it than changing to something else. There are countless people on this site who would tell you that without this site, they might not be using a Windows-driven phone.
It is also free tech-support for Microsoft, which saves them loads of money.
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Yup, that's it.
TheChampJT said:
LOL! I was going to post something else, but I'm pretty sure everybody has already said it, or thinks it! To much good comes from this site! Think about it, how many users of this site are now WM users for good and will always be sold on the next best WM platform because of this site.
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Amen to that!
Why haven't they done anything?
because nobody there is smoking crack
Would you close down a site that gets people talking about your products ? that is full of people writing programs that enhances the usability of your products? that's a great place to see some ideas you might steal for later versions of your OS.
This is free R&D!
duude said:
i mean, everything on this site is pretty much microsoft, which should create some copyright issues.
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Alas, I saw this differently with others. I think the question is very out of topic since this is an All-HTC-Devices forum, not an M$ WM forum. It's only 'coincidence' that after these years, HTC always used WM as their OS.
If HTC decided in the future that they will build their own OS, or maybe use Android, then it may trigger M$ to reconsider its stance against this forum. Especially, when we -as always- try to improve our experience with the devices, do it by porting some parts (drivers/softwares) from WM to other OS, or vice versa. Then the issue may be valid.
Btw, I don't know but do you all think it's safe -legally and/or morally- to port other vendor/ODM's part (drivers/softwares/etc) into our HTC devices? I ask this because I saw many attempts already...
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
gsessons said:
I don't know the exact number of people on this site, but I do know that there are a whole lot of people on this site. My point for that last sectence is "would you destroy a site that has FREE workers helping your company out to better there products and gain more money"
Yes, we might receive applications before they are release, but honestly where do you really think we receive those from uuuummmm?
So again, if I was a big company I would never touch this site because I will pass my software to this site let eveyone play with it and then I would know where all the bugs are at. So then I will fix it and then sale it.
There might be alot of poeple on this site but I think MS has a lot more customers that don't even know that this site is even alive.
There you go my 2 cents.
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and if the truth be known, they (M$) are happy that the masses dont know., in truth, the people on this site contain more knowledge and expertise than all of m$ combined as far as HTC handsets are concerned and how to tweak and tune the software to ACTUALLY work. it could be perceived as (truth) the Big companies are just mass clearing houses of useless data they can sell for a profit. how many of us came here for the first time only looking for useable software programs? how many of us came here for the first time trying to find a solution to an OEM problem?
M$ has found a truly unique forum in the world of r&d., although probably more out of frustration than than anything else, the majority of talented people here could teach this stuff to most of the employees at m$ about these devices and how they work and why.
I would be very surprised if they didnt have a staff of several people working there monitoring and testing to roms and software packages developed or tweaked through this site. they would have to be unbelieveably arrogant to think this is a bad thing for business, and we all know who one of the richest men and companies in the world is dont we. he didnt just fall off the truck so to speak, he understands..............economics!
With all of that in mind can anyone understand why pocket development is not possible on Visual studio express editions (free).
Isn't that a shoot on the foot? I think so.
I think that a platform with a lot of developers is much more appeling, and then seel more. Only a opinion from someone that will never buy a iphone.
Hey everyone,
Well it's great to see that the XDA community is still as vibrant as it was the last time I visited (which was quite some time ago). For those of you who remember, the last time I was active on this forum, was when I made this post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=401882) . Now, since then a lot has happened, including the death of my HTC wizard (long story), but anyway, the short version is I was assigned to a few development projects that sadly ripped my attention away from the XDA forums and I apologize for not at the very least mentioning this fact before my departure.
I've made a few trips around the mobile phone world, and I'm seriously thinking about returning to windows mobile, primarily for development purposes. I've grown a lot as a developer during my time away from these forums, and I'm nothing but eager to jump back into the idea of making new, fresh and innovative software for a platform with endless possibilities.
Anyway, I just thought I'd drop a line to let those of you who still remember me, know that I'm alive and to keep an eye out for at least one beta project when/if I get my new WinMo phone. It would be a great encouragement, if any graphic artist out there pledged some form of support, since the lack of graphics and graphics sense was always a huge setback for me in the past.
-Chad (Thundy).
moved to general
welcome back
I tip my hat to you sir.
Welcome back!
Maybe some graphic support here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=493698
Thanks for the responses guys!
Since I've been out of the WinMo loop for such a long time, I'm wondering what some of the major discussion points for future applications are. Apart from the usual shortcomings the OS itself presents to users, what are some really hot topics of interest as of recently?
In terms of apps, I've noticed A_C pretty much realized the ideas I had in my head with S2P really well. Although I never really got to try it out, but judging from the quality of his other apps, I'm 100% sure it's just as amazing!
UI seems to always have room for improvement, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any projects that look to fill the gaps that existed since the last time I was active on the forum. As a developer, I'm well aware of the challenges that new UI's present in terms of memory management etc. But I was really hopeful .
Personally, I think it would really give developers and artists a boost, if we had something else to play with in terms of developing rich user friendly interfaces for windows mobile. Maybe if the new .NET CF opened up the use of WPF technology and by extension Blend for interface building. At the very least, it would spark new interest and life into the creation of truly unique software development.
These ideas roll around in my head when I think about Windows Mobile 6.5 and 7.0 in the future!
Thoughts??
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
adesonic said:
I really like WP7, I recognise that it has some missing features but I am confident the se will be addressed with time. My concern is that anybody considering WP7 who reads this forum (or a plethora of other websites) could be easily put off by the negativity displayed by:-
1) Android/ IOS trolls
2) Disenchanted WM6.5 users who still want to spend their lives tweaking and cooking
Roms
3) People with an irrational fear of "the cloud".
4) Journalists who are desperate for MS to fail (because they are not Apple or Google
and thus not trendy!)
My question is, what can those of us who have faith in the platform do to balance the arguments a bit? I'm not talking about fanboism, I'm talking about expounding the positive features of WP7 like one note, like cloud sync, like the people hub, like the fast browser, like XBox integration for gamers (even though I do not use that much), like the easy access camera, like Zune and Zune Pass, like the fluid interface, like 25Gb of FREE Skydrive etc.
For example, I have a 16Gb HD7 with 25Gb skydrive means that to me I have a 41Gb device - more than my Ipad (see, I am platform agnostic).
If those of us who like WP7 do not actively support it, it will go the way of WebOS no matter how much Microsoft spend on their marketing budget.
WP7 is a revolution, let's get revolutionary about it!!!!
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I'm with ya, WP7 brother. I try to do my part by telling it like it is, being the highest quality mobile OS yet released, but who knows if it is having fruitful effect.
I'm with you too
It may be missing some features but just by looking at it, you can see that once Microsoft does implement the missing features it will look a lot better than Android's.
It's the first OS that's actually impressed me ever since iPhone came out.
I liked Android but it felt unfinished and I felt that buying one was not a good investment, since by the next year they would stop handing out updates for it and they would release a device frequently.
Hell yeah! Let's do this thing!
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
The Gate Keeper said:
you want to know the best way to promote windows phone? allow people to use it. i've shown my phone to virtually all my friends, and they all really like it. though they didn't use it for very long, they liked the capabilities of the OS in terms of smoothness, visual appearance, and functionality (well with what they played with).
i think we really just need to see MS continue to better the platform both on the phone side, but also on the developer side. they need to get the SDKs for all the hardware out asap, and then work on more SDKs that will bring features not yet on the market by any other maker. what could this be? who knows... but MS has enough in their coffers to find out, as well as enough R&D going on.
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^this! I've already had one person wish they hadn't got a desire - let's keep this up!
You know what Microsoft need though right? A huge pr stunt in the US, UK, France, Germany etc. Just to catch the headlines and make sure that good things are said
+1. I'm very glad to have gotten this phone and once the first update is out I'll be even happier. All my friends who have been on the fence about a new phone have heard from me!
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well.
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
f1restarter said:
I see a lot of 6.5 users whining here but I truly wish they had done a bit of reading on the WP7 platform so they would know that the WP7 is going to be nothing like the 6.5 and I truly hope it never will be because MS will permanently lose me to android. I'm glad I gave WP7 a chance after reading up on it even though I had washed my hands off the WM platform after the 6.5 nightmare.
Probably the biggest reason I'm enjoying the WP7 is because I knew fully well before buying the phone what features to expect and what it won't have out of the box so that saved me the headache of buying first and then whining about it in these forums. I mean what part of 1.0 don't you understand? Personally I think the 6.5 fan boys are even worse than android fan boys. For me the 6.5 offers quantity over quality and I guess some people are fine with that but not me and that's why I chose WP7.
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Mm, the 6.5 people are really starting to piss me off. They seem to think that WP7 is a sequel to WM6.5 - which it quite obviously isn't. Microsoft are quite obviously trying to forget WM, as it was, and still is, total rubbish. At least the Android guys actually have a semi-decent OS to whine about :/
It Will Get Better.
adesonic you have my support ,just wait for the updates and be happy.
I agree with everything said. Winmo users hate it because they can't tweak it (though it doesn't need tweaks so you can actually use the phone instead of always trying to fix it).
Android users are complaining about how "closed" it is. I think android is the one that needs to worry. Android has climbed quickly due to it's "open" nature, which means its on more devices than any other OS. The problem being is that most of those devices are pure crap. There is definitely not an across the board experience on android. Hell, some devices are still on 1.5/1.6 of android. Fragmentation has exploded at a much higher rate than on winmo, which has started to lead to developer frustration because their apps don't run smoothly on all phones.
I see the really dedicated tweakers heading over to android, and people that only tweaked to make their phone run properly to switch to wp7. It will be a better overall OS in the next year than android.
f1restarter said:
For me the WP7 is perfect in the sense that I am done with the whole power user/modding thing. I used to have a TP2 and tried a lot of ROMs but in the end I just wanted a phone that did two things i.e fluid and give me exactly the information I needed at a glance so I could get on with my life rather than tinker with it all the damn time. And this is where the WP7 serves me very well..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happy to see some people still face the reality. Thumbs up
I love my Omnia 7 as unlike 6.5 I have not yet reset the phone since I have purchased it and it's still running silky fast. And thank god for not having a task manager and just hitting the back button. I never want to go back to fiddling with my phone to try and get it running properly.
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought this was supposed to be a positive thread, specifically for wp7 ? it seems like just another comparison thread, or a "but we're doing good stuff now too!" thread.
anyway, i like the OP's idea of being a positive promoter. you may find it easiest to just start a youtube channel with your mission stated, and provide good tips, avoiding buzzwords, all while filtering the negative. people relate to a video demonstration of capabilities so very well.
good luck
brummiesteven said:
I had a G1 when it was first released and upgraded to a Desire. In my opinion, this is why WP7 will do better than Android has...
Peoples Reactions:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is. The only reason why Android has been successful up to now (in the UK at least) is because people want a smartphone with apps. 90% of the people I know who have an Android device had no idea what Android was before they bought the phone (and some still don't really understand). Google do little to no marketing.
Soon people will walk into a shop looking for a HTC AND be further persuaded by Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
brummiesteven said:
Desire: "Oh you have a HTC?"
HD7: "Oh you have one of them new Windows Phones?"
The point? People know what Windows Phone 7 is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting-- guess MS has done a much better job marketing WP7 in the UK than the US. The WP7 ads are on TV, but in NY I haven't come across anyone outside of techie circles who's aware of WP7 (awareness seems on par with Windows Mobile -- which is basically none -- whereas Android (which, as ohgood mentioned, is often known as "the Google phone") is almost approaching iPhone mindshare now). I'm the only WP7 owner I know of (and now the only WM owner as well-- everyone else switched to iPhones or Android handsets).
On the retail front, most WP7 displays I've seen at AT&T stores are hidden in the corner, and T-Mobile shops just have the HD7 on display along with the HD2 and a million Android phones, so it's pretty hidden (interestingly the HD7 is still in stock everywhere in retail, unlike even the HD2, which sold out almost immediately).
ohgood said:
i've not seen a 'you have htc' comment, once.
here, in the southeastern US, people ask "Is that a google phone ?". associating google + phone = awesome; is what it seems to be. at family/friend gatherings, i have yet to see a wp7 device. the wp6.x holdouts that i've personally known have changed to iphone or more commonly, android. phone envy ? i dunno, possibly. it seems more than anything the young folks i run into -know- the iphone from 30 feet away, know the android devices from 10 feet away, and know wp7 is still beta ware. i'm sorry, but that's the impression the young folks have here.
that being said, the older (than me) folks tend to gravitate to iphones. the large, easily read/understood apps and icons seem to attract them, along with the ease of use with their newish apple desktops. at physical therapy a few weeks ago, one gentleman was commenting about a recipe his aunt emailed him. on his phone. then he facetime'd her, and showed her the exercises that were going on. gimmicky ? i think not. i questioned him about android, wp7, and who made his phone. he didn't care, he just wanted "something that works very well, and doesn't require calling his nephew to fix."
that kind of attitude is what i'm seeing, here. people really don't -care- what the device is, what it runs, or who makes the software. all they want is a device that is mature, easily used, and easily maintained.
word-of-mouth is definitely in my neck o the woods(order of popularity/importance):
iphone
android (google phone more commonly known)
other
wp7 isn't on the radar. at all. it needs a ton of marketing, the current 'really' ads are funny, sharp, and true to life. what they -don't- do is show the phone. iphone ads on the other hand, show the phone (speeded up of course) doing what it does. android phones, show what they do. the wp7 commercials (which i love) point out the flaws of people, not the positives of the phone. we -all know- that people text and drive, are distracted everywhere in life by their phones. what we don't know is how the windows idea is going to solve this. SHOW IT !
hopefully this can be read, understood and not taken as fanboy bashing. it's very difficult for people to read a comment that isn't complete praise for a product and agree usually.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There then seems to be a massive division between the US (and I assume) the Rest of the World (or at least the UK/Europe).
Over here hardly anybody knows what Android is. We have no little to no android advertisements.
The major problem with Google is they don't seem to want to advertise themselves, am I correct here? U.S. Advertisements are done by Verizon/Maunfacturers etc etc?
Manufacturers do advertise their phones over here but none of them mention that the phones have android. The samsung adverts have the android robot in them but they don't really explain them. HTC adverts don't mention android at all (they just have the "you" campain).
There are a few things. The CarphoneWarehouse (mobile phone store) has started advertising android instore but this doesn't extend to TV or billboards etc. The G1 had minor "With Google" stamps on it's adverts but most people I know assumed this just meant it came with Google Maps, Google Search etc and had nothing to do with the OS.
When Networks (Carriers) get android phones they may promote them instore but this will be for the phones themselves and nothing on them running Android.
Compare this to WP7:
- Adverts on TV All the time (They might not be the best, but they're there at least)
- Massive billboard adverts, showing the phones "This changes everything Gizmodo Quote".
- o2 promoting the HD7 specifically highlighting that it's a Windows Phone
- Orange doing the same with the Omnia and Mozart
- Product Placement (see http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0089751101228_525696227_7296354_3969070_n.jpg)
Over here hardly anyone knows what Android is and it really used to piss me off how Google did no advertising whatsoever.
To the OP: Apologies that I took this post offtopic, I'm going to contact a Mod now and ask them if they will split the marketing discussion into a new topic.
Thumbs up here also. I've known about the differences between all the O/S and WP7, I actually came from 6.5. I brought one home, and the wife almost immediately said, go back and get me one too.
When I am using the phone in public places, sometimes I can feel people stretching to see what I am using. That usually generates a little conversation. About 70% say, "Oh, I've heard about those new Windows phones", or else they have seen the commercials and have not seen the phone. I tell them overall, this is a great system now, but not without its drawbacks (namely no custom ringtones.. and a few other things that will be addressed in the near future). Not the same old MS products. Go out and get one.
I am heartened to see so many positive comments, I may take up the earlier suggestion abou showing off some features of wp7 on YouTube