Leaked roms:
Have a look at this thread on Pocket PC Thoughts:
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/for...48&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
It discusses this question:
Are you desperate enough to try a "iffy" ROM on your device just to get to Windows Mobile 6? And Does Palm have any of the blame resting on it's shoulders for bricked devices given their non-existant communication with users regarding the timeline for this upgrade?
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Should we use leaked roms? Why do we use leaked and cooked roms?
V
My reply to that thread. And as I said to my soon-to-be-disappointed wife on my wedding night: it's a big one.
I tend to live most of my online life over at XDA Devs, but this is an interesting question for all hackers and tweakers:
As enthusiasts, we spend an enormous amount of time introducing instability into our systems, tweaking, refining, rebooting, registry editing, hacking, reverse engineering, re-writing, reflashing, pleading to forgiving better-halves and generally suffering from trichotillomania.
Why? So that at the end of the day we can come out with a new tweak, or a new rom, that's 0.01% faster, has a shinier bar at the bottom, tweaks the carrier logo, or whatever's your poison.
I'm a little bit of a PPC nerd, but I have the enormous pleasure of rubbing shoulders with some of the smartest hackers I've ever known. We all work hard, doing a job that we should not have to do: we spend our hard-earned time to improve the device that we've spent our hard earned cash on.
In an ideal world, Microsoft would have made the operating system perfect, and would merely push improvements to us, over the air, transparently, every week, and our WM2003 devices would have self upgraded themselves to WM6 by now.
However, due to the agreements and the way that most of the Mobile Phone Operators operate, any build improvements from Microsoft, the manufacturer (eg HTC), or indeed the phone company (eg Orange) must get pushed to the Operator, who will then rebrand it, test it (because of course, we never want buggy upgrades), decide whether to charge for it, and finally get around to releasing it some months later. Or: maybe they will just decide to sit on it and never release it, as it will impact sales for the devices that have become more relevant in the intervening period.
I love my phone (HTC Hermes), as an extension of my daily life. I like to tweak it, here and there, there and here. I know I waste a disproportionate amount of time doing so, often for little practical gain. But why then? Because we're enthusiasts, and that's what we do.
So, if Microsoft dangles a carrot in front of our face in 2005, and tells us they're going to release WM6 to manufacturers, that's great news! And if they tell us, it's hardware compatible with WM5, that's even better news! Now we just have to wait for HTC and Orange et al to release it to into our outstretched hands.
But.... sometimes, things don't work like that. It requires effort to rewrite drivers for the new OS. To test compatibility with the new upgrades. To ensure nothing crashes, or is less stable, or won't randomly drop calls. This requires investment. And investment demands cash returns. So, it only really makes sense for the operator to release a tested, substantial upgrade if they can get something out of it: whether that's improved goodwill, or just a a few dollars/pounds/won... and you know: sometimes, it makes sense not to release it all!
Why upgrade the HTC Wizard to WM6, when it will cannibalise sales from "true" WM6 devices like the Keiser? So, commercial decisions may just come down to the hard truth: they're not going to upgrade your phone, even though it can, because it's not commercially sensible to do so.
Understand: I have absolutely no problems with that. Our phone manufacturers are in Business, so random acts of generosity are few and far between. It makes sense to sell a million new handsets, then to allow the last million to upgrade.
However, if we can upgrade, should we not try? Should we not try to get the most out of the hardware we've spent our money on and are happy with?
So, speaking for the xda guys and gals, we are, as lawyers would say (and I am a lawyer, so I say it), somewhat reckless as to the consequences of our actions! We dive into the latest upgrade, take it apart, strip it down, build tools to decrypt, decompile, recompile, reflash, and ultimately cook your own DIY rom. The guys (and gals) are enthusiasts, and will try to tweak and refine. It takes time for us because often we don't know what we're doing, and have to do it all from the ground up [and don't forget: support your local rom chef. PLEASE don't complain and curse, advise and help. They work hard! And we're all people with feelings: if you prick us, do we not bleed?]
In a very very roundabout fashion, I hope I've explained a little of my personal motivation for jumping on the opportunity to upgrade. Now that doesn't always mean that I will. A brief segue, and a funny story:
I have been asked to be one of the "experts" on the Pocket PC Annual Awards. One of my perks is that they send me the latest edition of the Smartphone and Pocket PC magazine. It's HIGHLY recommended. Buy a subscription now. You will get to see a photo of me, and that alone makes it worth it.
So anyway, on the cover of this month's magazine, it proudly proclaims:
"Windows Mobile 6 phones are HERE!"
I chuckled when I saw this.
I am far from the most connected guy around, but let's say, I know "friends" that were running WM6 for getting on close to a year. Very stable, very usable versions of WM6, for various devices. These friends are generally very very careful about who has access to these leaks. And they are very concerned about the risk to the leak-er, the person giving them access to leaked roms, because people shouldn't lose jobs because of this.
So, if the "public" is wondering why leaked roms don't always get released to the masses, it's because sometimes they don't want to risk anyone getting into major trouble.
But, when possible, they try to share with the public, and to feed the useful, stable parts back into the community. And yes, cutting edges can make you bleed, sometimes. But caveat emptor.
If you do not know how to reflash and repair your phone, don't risk pre-release roms.
But, if you like to live on the bleeding edge, sometimes it's a real revelation.
The Hermes was a much better device with WM6, and the Universal suddenly became much more usable.
In fact - some of the pre-release roms were, from experience, better then the current "official" roms, which have slower bells and whistles, and are generally more bloaty.
So, again, caveat emptor, but if you're prepared to take the plunge, and know what you're doing, sometimes, it's worth it.
V
PS Obligatory iPhone reference: Apple once again raised the bar with manufacturer controlled upgrades - they can upgrade the phone directly through itunes, rather than waiting for AT&T to get around to it in their own time. And as iPhone hackers have seen, they pushed upgrades through very quickly. Compare that with the sporadic and tardy fashion in which the Windows Mobile community receives upgrade love.
PPS Illegal rom updates: if anyone finds anything illegal on XDA devs (or indeed this forum), let your local moderator know. I'm always happy to receive posts from concerned xda devs users.
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Vi -- EXCELLENT!! Now, where's that newest edition of Pocket PC mag??
Great post.
Related
I guess if M$ is being so cheeky by enforcing tight string on XDA-Developers site, then I suggest they buy it out for not less than 10M$ and invest in is so that it brings them cash in return on their investment!
This site has been a refuge for many of the pda users for not less than 5 years! It has helped many and many have even mastered the PDA tweaking and rom cooking for only and ONLY one reason (i.e. developing) the PDA technology.
If M$ has not learnt anything from this site and perhaps will never learn, then it is their own problem and they are shortsighted!!
I personally believe that XDA-Developers has helped the industry a lot and no one can deny this fact whereas others have just kept waiting and perhaps were left behind…
Com'n guys, it say "XDA-Developers" and it is only meant to develop and enhance by making our lives much easier not as M$, make it more miserable!!
few if any sane company would invest on something as free and "opensource" as this place
nobody here get paid and everybody could leave never to return
from an economic perspective it would be way risky
Rudegar said:
few if any sane company would invest on something as free and "opensource" as this place
nobody here get paid and everybody could leave never to return
from an economic perspective it would be way risky
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I tend to disagree, you would get a few people turn and leave if this place was affiliated with MS, but at the same time SOOOOOOO many people would stay and even get more active if all our efforts were recognised by them. Im in no doubt that ALOT of people from the operators and HTC are silent members (or even active members) in this forum. Opensource is not always a bad thing but its not as if we are actually changing the WM core system, we are adding to it and tweaking the hardware we have.
The actual investment in our devices is another reason, some of us have paid a HELL of alot for these devices and arent willing to sit back and wait for the next ROM to appear a year after we bought them! Im YET to see a genuine ROM update from HTC, yet over the phone the guy did tell me about Xda-devs and the recommended ROM to use!
Bizarre decision
I can only imagine they are under pressure from the device manufacturers : You;re not going to buy a new device as quickly if you can get the latest OS to run on your existing machine.
Unless they have plans to retail windows mobile operating system, in which case the roms here would impinge on those sales.
Otherwise, it makes little sense : communities help make the market for these devices and often show technology leadership : from Win95 to XP, look how many community innovations made it into the OS : media players, codecs, compression tools, IM, etc etc. None these innovations are born in Microsoft labs. They're born in the community.
More specifically though, their actions will cause all those people who are smart enough to double and triple their effort to get open source operating systems for the hardware, leaving them out of the picture all together.
Linux and the entire open source community was born, grown and raised because of actions just such as this and I said as much in my petition comments.
JJ
Allow open source or buzz off!
MS has been acting weird lately which I reckon they would go out of business if they continue though.
What they've decided to do will certainly lower their market acquisition and customer loyalty, dono man!!
I mean think for a minute, what if they MS tomorrow tills you to buy a new PC everytime there's a new OS?! Get new hardware everytime they release new platform! Would that be kind of an insane strategy?
I paid about 1K$ for my universal and feel itsn't enough, which I should get better support and even have full right to any update and upgrade too, don't you think so?
What MS wants us to do, everyone who has a PDA to replace it with a new one so that they generate more money out of us! Tough man. I know a friend who's fighting big time for Vista Enterprise version and you know what? He's getting nowhere!!
It's left up to you gentlemen...
why would ms invest when they are already reaping the benefits of the tweaks and fixes from a source that has people doing it for free.
i renember windows 3.0 it sure come along way
but think about it are we comparing pda/smartphones too much with pc's ?
how many palm and nokia owners ever get new firmware ?
why should one expect to get newer os's for a pda/smartphone at all if the one it came with dident have any bugs ?
it's a full solution we buy not hardware and then get the software we pref
like on pc's
not that i object to the oppotinity of upgrading a dusty old device with new software though
ms wont be getting anymore of my money,
You buy a pc with windows what everinstalled ,nothing but crashes and hassle
if you do get a virus or have to reset you loose word etc,and if you didnt get a reinstalled disc your screwed
as for pda's,totally unsupported they just hope by the time updates come youll buy a new device and live with teething problems
hand on heart if it wasnt for this site my exec wud be 10% of what it is now in terms of vaule to me ,useablility
IMHO the out of the box devices are total dog sht,
they dont live up to the hype ,its only thru tweaks,added software and places like this that make the devices
that being the case i wont get a windows device next time around,its either symbian or treo for me and ive already order a new computer and its a Mac
microsoft thanks for nothing.places like this site make there devices crediable and what they are,in return some openess or investment are due from microsoft
my bottom line is they bring out new op systems,but wont let us upgrade free or cheaply,but if the softwares .op sys,worked as they claim we wouldnt want to upgrade
sell me a half baked set up ,then relase somehting improved but make me pay all over again,nah for me enough is enough
micorsoft have the vast market place,but this has turned then arrogant and feel that they can do as they wish ,but to many people we have had far to much and there offerings arent worth the hassle
you can get customers but the market has grown wiser and the compation stronger,menawhile microsoft sit back and only think of money,play on nero
im off to get me a Mac
i realy want this game cracked but cant fin it can some one help me
Yes. Go buy it and I'll send you a crack!
LOL
hahahhha but no serious
serrious, go buy it
i thougt you guys could help me
you thought wrong.you are HelplessEver now...
soRry
do you now a funn and good quality game
Yeah! Return to the Mysterious Island - a very good game. You should definitely buy it!!!
do you hate me serius
Stop encouraging this guy by keeping his thread alive!!
Seriously, bestever, someone spent a lot of time and energy to create that game. Go buy it and show the programmer a little appreciation, rather than finding a cracked version and, basically, stealing.
How would you feel if you spent hours and hours and days and days writing a book, and you find a publisher and spend even more time - and lots of money, too - getting the book published, and as soon as it finds its way to the shelves, someone buys one, makes a gajillion photocopies of it, and started giving it free to everyone who asked. Suddenly you're not selling a single book - because everyone's getting it for free.
Wouldn't you be mad?
Seriously. Go buy the game if you like it that much.
You are joking, right?
I really find interesting everybody's opinion here, especially when considering the fact that all posts belong to a forum which is well known for it's illegal roms...
So, if I want a WM6 device I should buy one right? I shouldn't upgrade my old WM5 device, as by doing this I am not respecting the authors (aka programmers) of the new OS nor the producers (aka manufacturers) of the new devices. And they don't make profit anymore, as I don't have to buy a new device, since my old is upgraded. For example, my old Prophet runs on EXACTLY the same hardware as the Elf. But I don't have to buy the Elf anymore. Is that what your are telling us?
Great. Let's shut down this forum
The truth is that games & software are way too expensive. If they kept the prices in reasonable limits then we wouldn't consider cracking them...
i think booth have right in somewais
sorry for bad english
dj_aris said:
I really find interesting everybody's opinion here, especially when considering the fact that all posts belong to a forum which is well known for it's illegal roms...
So, if I want a WM6 device I should buy one right? I shouldn't upgrade my old WM5 device, as by doing this I am not respecting the authors (aka programmers) of the new OS nor the producers (aka manufacturers) of the new devices. And they don't make profit anymore, as I don't have to buy a new device, since my old is upgraded. For example, my old Prophet runs on EXACTLY the same hardware as the Elf. But I don't have to buy the Elf anymore. Is that what your are telling us?
Great. Let's shut down this forum
The truth is that games & software are way too expensive. If they kept the prices in reasonable limits then we wouldn't consider cracking them...
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Actually, there's a difference here. If "bestever" wanted to get a copy of the game with developing in mind - maybe create a new game based on the same engine or something - then there wouldn't be a problem. This is xda-developers.com, where people collaborate to develop new software solutions for our smartphones and pdaphones. The developers post their creations so that the masses can download, install, and essentially beta-test them. It's an intellectual exercise, and if a few people just download WM6 (for example) just for their own personal use, that's okay, the developers here don't seem to mind.
The game in question, however, was designed and is marketed as for-profit. The developer spent a lot of time and energy creating that software. If he spent a total of 40 work hours programming, editing, compiling, testing, reprogramming, and fixing bugs in this game and sold it for 20 bucks, he's making 50 cents an hour. He'd have to sell 15 copies just to hit minimum wage.
If bestever wanted to get a copy of the game to use it as a template to design his own, that's fine. At least with me. But he just doesn't want to pay for it. There's a word for that - "stealing".
On top of all that, the programmer of the game in question is not a bloodsucking monopolistic corporation worth billions of dollars and doing everything possible to squeeze every last red cent they can out of the average Earth-dweller. Whatever issues I may have with people and their illegal software downloads comes to a halt when I reach Microsoft. I don't like them, I don't like the way they do business, and I think they deserve what they get. The only reasons I use Windows PCs is because they're industry standard anymore, and I grew up using them long before I developed any sense of politics - I started at age 6 with Win3.1. The only reasons I use a Windows Mobile device is because of the huge third party app support, vastly superior abilities compared to your garden-variety cell phone, and the prohibitive cost (and lack of third party support) behind the iPhone.
If the developer of the game wanted it to be free, he'd be distributing it freely. If you like the game that much, show the developer some support and PAY FOR THE GAME. Otherwise, the game might not even exist.
I won't argue with you that the cost of games and software is way too expensive. I don't want to pay over 200 bucks for an operating system for my computer, but I don't know crap about Linux, whereas I'm very proficient in Windows (2k, XP, 2k3S, etc.) But here's the rub, and in order to be properly understood you have to be completely honest with yourself. If money wasn't a problem, if instead of making 25k/year you were making 250k/year, would you still be cracking software, or would you be buying it?
Alright guys. Let's all take a deep breath here. The age-old question of warez, and cracks and hacks won't get answered here.
If there are any moderators in sight, please delete this thread, It is totally off-topic, and should never have been allowed to propagate.
sorry for starting this
I just think it is kind of weird right after at&t releases their two new android phones and new tethering plan, that our phone then the aria who have both waited for months get an update. Kinda seems like at&t was holding out on the updates. Anyone else agree this seems a little weird?
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+1
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OK, this is just my opinion, but I believe that all the people that have been castrating Samsung about the updates are generally wrong, and that ATT was where things were being held up.
So, it's easy to castrate ATT for that but, really, it's easy for people that don't understand software/product support to pass judgement. Most people assume that ATT delayed things for commercial reasons so they could bloat/cripple the software. That may very well be true, but is it the only reason?
Assuming there are a couple million captivates out there, maybe ATT wanted to make sure they were able and ready to support the update of a couple million phones by generally retarded consumers that were going to create a huge demand spike for support when the upgrade was released?
Being in the software business, I know that software rollouts are not simply a matter of the software being ready. Having an infrastructure/ecosystem in place to support the software once it's rolled out is often as challenging as developing the software, and often just because the software is ready doesn't mean the business is ready to roll it out and support it. It may be as elementary as making sure you have enough capacity in your call centers to take the additional end-user support call volume generated by the update.
So, it's logical for me to believe that ATT set up an infrastructure and a plan that was implemented to support rollout of updates. It's also logical to assume that plan was intended so that the day it "went live" it enabled them to support multiple phone updates. The timing could certainly encompass dependencies/considerations on other elements of their business/infrastructure, including seemingly unrelated (to us) elements like support for tethering, etc.
I'm not necessarily defending all of these companies practices, and I really do think their communication could be better, but let's face it. Sometimes they are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they roll out something before they are ready they get berated because they released prematurely (see IPhones and network capacity and one reason so many people ***** about ATT). Or some updates fail and some phones get bricked and bloggers jump on them and try to ruin their reputation (see the recent WP7 first update). Or they try to communicate and people want specific dates and complain if they don't get them (see recent SamsungJohn/XDA debacle). If a date slips because of some unforeseen reason, people hold their feet to the fire over it.
So, is it coincidence that the Captivate and Aria updated at the same time, along with some other business elements like tethering? Probably not. Does it imply something insidious? Maybe, but I tend to believe it was along the lines of their project/implementation timelines based on the things they needed to put into place to support their customers and manage their business plans.
People, in general, VASTLY underestimate the amount of work that is required to set up an ecosystem to support end-users and roll out and release software/products.
Can Samsung and ATT do a better job of communicating? Absolutely, especially as it relates to the XDA audience. But consider this: maybe, from their business perspective, the number of people that ***** on the Internet are a miniscule (albeit very visible to us) percentage of their business/customers and although they are willing to spend some time to cater to that element, maybe their willingness only extends out a little bit because they think it only affects their business a little bit.
Just my $.02.
Bob
This is just a PSA to all you vicious Android fanboys on this forum that hound anyone who asks the question "what phone should I get", especially when one of those options includes an iOS device or a WP7 device.
So let me get this started. I love Android. But Android is not perfect. Take a deep breath, and say it with me again, out loud.
"Android is not perfect." Was that too hard? If so the following explanation is for you.
Ever since Android first came out, people were hailing it as the iPhone killer. But in reality? It's really not. It may be getting there, and may be getting there quickly, but that's not that point.
It may be a surprise to many of you, but there are actually other human beings outside of XDA that use smartphones. Human beings that are not interested in rooting their phones or spending a lot of time completely customizing them or pushing them to the limit. These human beings want their phones to work when they need them, and that's all. Whether these phones are iOS, Android, or Windows Mobile/7 phones is completely irrelevant to them.
Except, it actually is. But see, not in the way most of you seem to think it is.
People shop for phones nowadays because the have an end they need to reach and they need the means to get to that end. Whether it's something as simple as checking an email message or quenching a thirst to play a game, they take into consideration what is the quickest, most hassle-free way to do this. This requirement is not because they are stupid. Most XDA users seem to think that anyone off XDA just buys iPhones because they are uneducated about "the true power of Android" and all that jazz. Guess what? That's not the case.
Yes. Here at XDA, we can do a lot with our phones. We root them, we build custom ROMs for them, we use features that were locked before, or get versions of our OS that aren't out yet.
But please be damn sure you understand that we are the minority. We will always be the minority. Your experience here doesn't define the mobile landscape, it only improves your personal experience with your phone. Just because you took a few hours to root your phone, find the perfect custom ROM, and settle down with it doesn't make the average Joe who just bought an iPhone (because it does what he wants easily and has all the apps he likes) a stupid user.
Here is the meat of this newsflash; Android wouldn't be here if it wasn't for iOS. (Going further, iOS wouldn't be there without Windows Mobile, and etc etc etc until we reached the very first man who asked 'why can't I see my email from my phone'). Apple took a chance on what people wanted, and realized they had something. They built an OS that was based on the ideals of OS X; simple, straight-forward, good looking, and well received. And so began the App and Data revolution. All of a sudden, the idea of having mobile data became real. These wonderful delicious little things called "apps" made the mobile world much more exciting than it had even been before. And so Apple hit a goldmine, and the mobile landscape had been painted. These apps were well-designed, fun, informative, useful, and people liked them so much, they started to buy paid apps. Apple knows how to market to people, and there success showed.
So then. Android.
Android was birthed out of the idea that Google could cash in on this app world. You may think the intentions were noble, with the idea that it was some pipe dream in the same way linux was; completely open mobile platform. After all, if Apple could have the success with a closed system, Google obviously could rock the world with an open one.
But it's not. Android, or at least what most people come to think of as Android these days, is not "open". It's open to phone manufacturers, and carriers, but that's it. It' snot open to the end user. Why else do we have locked down features, closed-source OEM skins that hinder future firmware upgrades? Why else do we have carrier-controlled Market restrictions? Why do some phones not ship with developer tools, or the ability to install from unknown sources?
Let me be frank. I love Android, but Android is a mess. It's a mess of a bunch of wonderful ideas that would have shined like nothing else in the perfect world, but a mess that didn't anticipate a simple fact; businesses like to make money.
The truth of the matter is that we don't have freedom with Android. Every little part of it has a restriction we need to bypass. Do you buy an expensive high end phone, or a cheaper low-end phone? Will you still be able to play those cool games on that low end phone? Will it get software updates? Is it safe from malware? Buying an Android phone has become the same as trying to buy a Windows PC.
It suffers from the same problem that Microsoft does when compared to Apple's line of computers. Apple builds its hardware AND its software, so they interface with complete precision and function. People with iPhones don't need to worry about security updates, or whether their phone will be obsolete. Apple may release a new phone every year, but the point is that those phones are made to last, both in terms of hardware and software. They even went the next step further and made the iPod touch, which gave phone users who weren't ready for smartphones a taste of what it was like.
My Sprint Hero came out on October 11th, 2009. The iPhone 3GS came out in June of the same year. Both were priced around the same amount, but what stands out to me the most when I think back to when I tested both that year? The fact it took Google this long to make an operating system which took ages to mature enough to be used by HTC to make a phone that STILL could not even give me a smooth web browser, something that the very first iPhone was able to do. Games on the Hero sucked in comparison to the 3D games that were playable on the iPhone.
Now then, Android smartphone hardware has advanced to a significant level, but the point of this whole rant is that Google has always been following in Apple's footsteps in the mobile world, and it's going to be that way for some time.
Be a bit humble about the begginings of Android and what it's become, and for f***'s sake, be a bit mature than just saying "LOLOLOL APPLE SUCKS GG GET ANDROID".
Because it's the rest of the world outside of XDA that defines the success of these mobile platforms, because I hate to say this, but you and I are not part of that outside world of mobile phone users, and we never will be.
The truth is, no one can really say what the "perfect" mobile OS is. All we can do is say what works best for us or what we prefer, but when we state it as fact, as though it's not arguable, that's when we become the fanboys that we so dearly hate. Just keep that in mind.
Opinions welcome, fanboyism from either side not wanted at all. Congrats on finishing this post.
Excellent post. Would read again.
Great things said there. I can see a point in it. But still, I don't either see Ios higher as Android since Ios is a mess too. Let me just take this simple statement. Music on a Ipod/Iphone needs to be converted from the computer to the device, you can't random download a song(on the device) from Internet and play it. Same as the file exploring.. if you want to search for a file, you find a file in some folder like: im/af/on/ar/qr, or just some folders which are messy, and the file types are unknown for the computer. All those small things give me the excuse to stay at Windows Mobile. Simply cause we can download music files and play it, simply cause there is great development on it, simply cause it can be customized how we want it.
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
d12unk13astard said:
Cool story bro
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
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Good job. That must have taken some serious thought to come up with.
This is something I 100% agree with.
When I had a Samsung Moment, I had problems galore with it. Keyboard wouldn't type, horrible support, and the big network lockup. Mind you, a network lockup where you can't call out to anyone is against FCC laws. But just to get some type of damn support for the thing, I almost had to root it. And I'm sorry, but I shouldn't have to depend on an online community for support for a phone when the carrier and manufacturer of the phone should be doing that. What the hell is the point in buying the phone and paying damn near $70 a month if I can't use the damn thing?
Let's also talk about performance of the Moment and how unoptimized it was. The Moment uses the same SoC found in the Iphone 2g, and 3g. The only difference, stock 2g and 3g SoC is 600 mhz, clocked down to about 422 mhz for battery, while the Moment was 800 mhz. Both arm11 cpu cores. The Iphone 2g and 3g despite having almost half the clocked frequency of the Moment, was smoother and had actual hardware support and acceleration. Even this day, Samsung still does not have proper hardware support for the SoC being used in the Moment, Intercept, Transform, Spica, etc etc.
If done right, Android is pretty awesome I'll admit. But if I want a phone to work, I'll get something that actually works.
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
gosualex said:
big advantage of android, but also a weakness:
it works well on many devices, but its not optimised for the spezific hardware of each phone...
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Good understanding
I love android because I love to tinker. Nothing could ever change my mind short of the os aging. I will say this flaws or not I refuse to give apple my money. So it's either wp7 or android.
My words to live buy if I can't hack it I don't want it. Just my 2cents
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium Apps
I would agree iPhones support is a lot longer no network changes added, updates can brick the phones though.
Android need some love. Fragmentation. Networks slow to update. Ui 's being to sluggish to update the phone to higher levels.
All android phones should be aosp no extras from makers or networks.
Love my cm7/miui.us phone but most people would want to flash it or know how to. They would just think might as well get an iPhone.
Just my feelings. I own apple computers. Custom built pcs android phones had iPhones I still use an iPod touch in the kitchen as you can get the best speaker docks for them. Use what works best for the situation.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Android security warning !!
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
-gps location
-contacts
-logs
-screenshots
-hidden camerashots
-sms/mms
-emails
-photos
-etc
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS FACT !!!
There was a test in germany, where a developer made a app with all the rights to do the things above and send them hidden in the backround to a specified server to that he had access. So he could read and see all the things above and it was even updating immidiatly after a new sms or something came in and the testuser who installed it had no clue at all and was shocked when they told it to her.
The App itself was just making photos with a black censor stripe in the eyes and it seemed that it never could do that, but all the real action is going on in the backround.
By the way, he sayd it was very easy and many apps could do that and most of them really do that.
And what I know, many of you don't know or don't care and spread all your information to some companys that like to have them alot. And they allways want more.
Maybe you should spread this information by quoting this post or linking to it, because many people don't like to be ripped of their information.
Or do you like it, when someone is standing close to you and listens all what you say to your friends, when you have a private conversation ? I think not!
check out my signature also.
and be safe!
edit: i think i should post this as a new thread!
Great post, good read!!
Hard to say any mobile OS is perfect. But the world of mobile OS is developing quickly in recent years.
Haven't played extensively with Android and IOS. Currenly, I still think IOS is more polish. Android definitely have a lot of features and I am looking forward to where they take the OS to in the future. It seems like it's an OS that has a lot of support and has had to "grow up" really rapidly.
I actually agrer with everything in this post. Fact is the best technology in the world is technology that is stable, works, and allows the user to complete what ever task is needed.
Last night it was decided my wife and I are switching to verizon why? Cause the wife wants IOS and I am more partial to android and BB and thats the only carrier that has all 3.
Now to add on what was already said I think google needs to pick one manufacture purchase them then do exactly what apple does marry the hardware amd software together to get rid of what can be a problematic OS simply cause with some manufactures android is worse then on others.
Sent from my SPH-P100 using XDA App
(•.•) said:
I think android is the best system, but its very insecure if you let it on stock and don't secure it, root it, get rid of some apps and optimize it.
Did you know that a normal app with all permissions can get all your data?
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You give apps on an iphone or WM phone permissions to do these things too right, so this is a more general problem in the new mobile world...
BTW, I like you're post LiquidSolstice, you could almost call it a fact, it's not that the one is better than the other. It's just that they are different and the majority of people likes easy and simple...
I agree with alot of what LS mentions in the first post. My wife is one of those who could really care less about rooting, overclocking, mem management, or even what version of Android she is using for that matter. She just wants to be able to send that text without the keyboard "hicupping", or to make that phone call without the dialer lagging, etc. I like Android, but I don't like Google's.. well let's say "less than kosher" business practices and corporate involvements. I think a big point to remember is that there will always be people like us that get a huge kick out of toying with electronics. For some, it's a hobby, for others, a career. With that being said, there will also always be those doofies that get on sites like this one and annoy the living crap out of you. Everything needs to be taken in stride, and though there are those who appear to be clueless on a subject, always remember that we all have to learn somehow. Knowledge is not obtained through osmosis.
Android feels like a permanent beta. I prefer iOS for simple tasks plusSbsettings is unmatched. WP7 seems more like a feature phone, it doesn't tell you 'I'm smart.'
I mostly agree
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
tsaxda said:
I don't think the problem with android is really the fact that more than one company is involved in developing phones for android. The problem is that those companies, (OEMs & carriers) have been given way to much freedom to decide not only what processor & RAM the phone would have but to put their "stamp" on android. I think the blame for that partially falls on Google for not putting a stop to OEMs & carriers putting their bloatware on phones. Google has been asked multiple times to do something about the "fragmentation" issue & they've refused, so ultimately they are partly responsible for the "mess" android has become.
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Well, carrier "bloat" --I put that in quotes because the current three major skins bring much needed features to Android (whether or not the execution is done well or not is a different argument)-- isn't quite what's killing it, it's the time spent optimizing the hardware for Android.
Android gets slapped on as many devices as possible and then sold as a low end affordable smartphone, and that's the issue, but that's the essence of Android at the same time.
ZeGuitarist said:
Excellent post. Would read again.
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+1 Outstanding post. Completely agree.
Alright, so after reading a couple articles on a bunch of sites. I can sort of understand a vicious cycle that's going on in the mobile development world.
First off, let me begin, Mobile OEMs (as we all know) don't release updates very often. And as a general rule, when they do... it's usually a couple months late. Just look at HTC devices, most of the (somewhat) older devices (depending on what you're definition of older is) aren't getting the updates to ICS for while http://goo.gl/FjcMJ . And in some cases they just decide not to update them at all. (see the Desire HD and possibly the Thunderbolt http://goo.gl/BwZld )
Initially when Android started, this was a little different. And allow me to clarify by going far far back, to the first Android device. The HTC Dream.
It initially came out with Android 1.0 (Astro) it eventually got updated all the way to the software version 1.5 (Cupcake). If you look back then, that's two software updates! Astro to Bender to Cupcake.
Now let's look at just about any other Android device (not made my Samsung, for the most part they're a bad example... (of course then again, they have the head of Cyanogenmod Steve Kondik on their team).
We're going to look at Motorola, because despite the fact that it's owned by Google, not all of their devices have received updates. And the device I've chosen from them is the defy. Now if you look over at the development section of the forums you'll see that we have a working (and apparently a very smooth) port of Jelly Bean for the Defy. http://goo.gl/mE1Qy
But if you decide to see what Motorola's deciding to do to update it from Gingerbread, well... their development section is devoid of everything for the Defy... http://goo.gl/g8XN0
Now why does that matter to us happy go lucky developers and modders? Well let's look over this little scenario I've played out in my head more than once.
CEO#1 "Oh they want Jelly Bean?"
CEO#2 "Yeah they do..."
CEO#1 "So what are we going to do about it?"
CEO#2 *checks XDA* "Nothing, the ones who really care about it have a working ROM up already."
CEO#1 "Okay, sounds good to me. So are you ready to go make some more phones with high specs and outdated software?"
CEO#2 "Well if we start now, we should be able to get six new devices running ICS 4.0.3 out by mid December!"
CEO#1 "Ohh, not even having the latest version of ICS is really going to get them. Brilliant!"
This is a vicious cycle that just keeps going around, and around, and around. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it. While we need Superuser and rooting privileges, we also need updates to the latest version of Android OS to keep us going.
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates. The problem is that with their history of sending out updates we really can't stop working. And even when they do send out updates, sometimes they aren't even fully stable! (see Evo 3D http://goo.gl/VzCNM )
So the question is, how are we going to stop this?
Buy devices from the companies that keep things up to date. The Nexus gets direct pushes from Google so you know you're good there. Sony has a dedicated line to developers through their forums and even offers devices for temporary dev use and has reasonably priced unsubsidised phones.
Put your dollars in the right places if you want to make change happen. Those who want full access still aren't a large enough part of the market to shape everything. That said, people pushing for control have made sure that iDevices can be jailbroken and HTC is staggering hard because of mis-steps in marketing that have been worsened by lackluster updates and their decision to shun the dev community that was bolstering them.
They can't look at xda or whatever Android forum because there is a larger population of users who have no idea what rooting is, let alone custom ROMs. Those people depend on updates and if they won't get an official update, they won't get one at all.
Sent from my MB508 using xda premium
If you ask 10 Android users what version of Android they are on, 8 of them will have no clue, 1 will know because the sales rep used it as a selling point, and one of them will be running Jellybean (thanks to XDA!).
Consumer demand is not high enough to demand the cost of testing new software on dated phones. Sad but true.
thebeastglasser said:
OEMs on the other hand see us as free labor for development and as the only people who really want/need the updates.
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If they really saw us as free labor, they would release a phone with cyanogenmod or something and just kang whatever works for their next update. (Actually, this would be a very good idea.)
However, in actuality, they just don't care about the devs. Too busy trying to differentiate their products with custom skins and cause more work for everyone.
It is true that most people don't know much more than that they are are android or "droid", just like many people don't know much more than they have an Iphone. The vocal majority of phone users (online) however have quite a bit more knowledge which means they get much more feedback from the minority.
One of the main reasons (other than price) that I got a Nexus 7 was due to the fact that Google pushes updates immediately to their nexus devices. I see this as an additional "perk".
You can't buy a device Android or other from an OEM or carrier and expect to get the latest greatest updates a or mods any too quickly. Forums and sites like xda bring in developers and users who ate eager to offer mods and help that you will never find coming from the mainstream as quickly or with the same quality. I get the device I want and look to here to make it better quicker.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
But what I see is that there are a bunch of phones that could easily be running better software (like the Defy) but OEMs clearly see that anybody who seems to care enough about updates are doing it themselves. The problem is, there are relatives of mine who refuse to root and yet they know enough about phones to know what version they're running and know the difference between the two versions. The one they currently have, and the one they could have.
I feel like this is kind of unfair to the sed-mentioned people and on top of that, it makes uneducated users buy more phones, while it keeps people like us are at work.
I'd bet that it was a pain in the a** porting ICS to the Desire HD no thanks to HTC, and yet this is just one less job for HTC and a hell of a lot more work for us... That's just me.
And also, that idea for a "pre-kanged" phone or one running a version of Cyanogenmod is pretty good. It'd be a great idea...
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb not only because of devs, but because people who just end up with them will like seeing timely updates and devices that continue to get better and better. If you want to help the rise of affordable, quality devices then steer others toward them when you can and buy them yourself when it's time for something new.
Also, people on xda do not see development as a "work", they see it as a hobby...
So even if all the phones were on the latest android, the dev community here at Xda would still be hard at "work" to come up with something better...something which the OEM's and Google couldn't think of implementing even with such large resources at their disposal...
And let's face it, apart from games, the general public in large doesn't have "need" for BETTER phones...
I've seen the likes of HTC One X and Galaxy S3 go in the hands of people for whom multitasking would mean chatting on whatsapp while waiting for the fb app to load...
So the question would arise, if the public doesn't "need" better phones, how do we sell it to them?
The answer becomes clear, stop giving them updates...make them feel that their device is outdated...that they "need" a NEW and BETTER phone...
The ones who understand the capability of their phone would have the ability, or more importantly, the will to make the updates happen...
For the rest, well there's fancy advertising...
Hope this clears up...
- Via xda premium
Yeah, I suppose it makes sense. Thanks guys!
How many people are there using Android? About 60% of the market, which means hundred milion users How many members do we have here on XDA? Less than hundred thousands! It means that regular users dont know and dont care what OS they use or even dont know what the update is. Froyo, GB, ICS, JB sound like alien languages for most of regular users. For those who know wat they are using, they are already XDA members, the rest just doesnt care or they just simply buy an iCrapple. Therefore, there is no way you can stop that. Customers are always taken granted by companies.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda app-developers app
Extreemly well put. We all knew it but didn't say anything. I am awaiting the next nexus for this very reason. Props to thebeastglasser
MissionImprobable said:
Again, speak with your dollars. I have no doubt that Nexus sales will continue to climb
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The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
thebeastglasser said:
For the record there are over four million members on XDA...
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Not currently active users though. Remember XDA used to make you register to download files so that jacked up the member rate.
thebobp said:
The bundling is too strong with this market. When there are literally only one or two phone brands, usually otherwise sub-par, that are stock, the voting with dollars won't make much of a difference. It's like voting in an election where a lot of people who might prefer a pure candidate are given tons of reasons to go with more mainstream ones.
So how can change actually be effected? First and most obviously, google might dictate to motorola to make stock phones. Hopefully, that will happen and stock android will start getting a positive reputation for straightforward and automatic upgrades.
The other option starts at grassroots levels: this bundling leaves a gap in the market, and eventually someone should step in to fill that gap. I can imagine small start ups in third-world countries (where price is a real issue) revitalizing older brands with the highest supported cyanogenmod, then selling them at still relatively low prices for a profit. If there is enough demand for this, this "repackaging" business would be emulated all over and the OEMs might start to take a hint.
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The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
Google is marketing a clean, recognizable line in their Nexus devices, advertising intelligently, and making sure that they continue to stay on the latest firmware. Supporting them and other companies who do so will dictate what model corporations follow. Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
Grassroots movements have done everything from keeping the iPhone legal to jailbreak to getting a man his goodies when a WP store tried to pull a fast one in regards to him winning the WP challenge to getting VZ to clarify that they wouldn't be doing anything to their Unlimited users. We may not be the majority, but we are far more organized and informed than the masses and as such what we do gets noticed and picked up on by tech, blog, and news coverage. The only ones who don't make change happen are the naysayers who sit by and do nothing. Support the brands that support the customers and devs.
MissionImprobable said:
The Chinese market is already doing that, and with brand new phones that come both rooted and sometimes unlocked. Yes, there are other markets in which this can be done, but it doesn't make sense to talk on the one hand about voting with dollars not making a difference and then saying third-world resellers will change the game.
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Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
MissionImprobable said:
Again, HTC is eating crow because their abandonment of the dev community and their decision to spread themselves thin, ala Motorola, who are also being dug out of a hole now by Google. I'd say both companies have paid the price for ignoring what the marketplace demands.
Moto had everyone hooked with the original Droid so there is no doubt that share is won or lost by how you approach relevancy for the long run. Go back and look at how many people loved their OG Droids in every way but have now moved on to other brands because of locked bootloaders and lack of firmware updates on the models that followed. Money makes the corporate world go round and every little bit helps.
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I'm not really convinced that Motorola's and HTC's losses were due to locked bootloaders, or even lack of firmware updates. Rather, I think it's due to brand inertia: at some point, Samsung came up with a phone (the Galaxy S2) that was so far ahead of anything else on the market at the time, that they just grabbed market share and brand loyalty from many of the consumers on the market. This has little to do with the Galaxy Nexus, and indeed their "next big thing" has been the horribly backward (from a stock perspective) S3 and the Note.
It's been my perception that there is a strong correlation between developer support and whatever device I want to get next.
When I got my very first phone, it was the Samsung Captivate.
It had (Still has) great dev support. I decided not to wait a month to get the Moto Atrix because, there was no predicting what kind of dev support it would have despite having great specs. I find that (generally speaking) Samsung phones have had strong dev support.
I sort of hate to point this out.. But, if you think the "average consumer" cares about upgrades.. I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of people do care about upgrades.. Myself, my girlfriend, a lot of people who frequent forums in general.
Still, your average consumer is probably more concerned with the screen size than the software it's packing. Even if ICS is "nicer" and "more elegant" there are a lot of people who really don't know or even care what OS their phone is running. As long as they can text and check facebook, they aren't going to be bothered with the small details of "Jellybean" or "ICS"
I have to be completely honest when I admit, if I were a manufacturer.. I don't honestly know how inclined I would be to release OS updates. Not because I want to be an evil corporation and force you to upgrade to get the newest OS.. But, because putting it plain and simply.. It takes time, energy, and money to release an update. If *ANYTHING* goes wrong with the update and even a single person doesn't follow the instructions.. It becomes really hard to prove they are the one at fault. So you spend your time and energy making an update, potentially having more cost incurred due to possibly damaged hardware, and then finally.. wondering how many people really cared in the first place. A lot of people don't care and even won't upgrade their phone because, they perceive it as "a pointless endeavor."
thebobp said:
Sure voting makes sense.. if you're in another country where the election's not as rigged.
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What does this have to do with supporting companies that support us? Voting with your dollars is a metaphor; it doesn't mean that there is an election for phones.