If you know my H.264 bible (link to original HERE; note that it has the charts messed up. The latter, without problems, can be found HERE or in any other mirrors I've listed at the end of the original article; see the paragraph starting with "Cross-posted to"), you may be aware of that, so far, no Windows Mobile device was able to play back “high”- resolution H.264 videos.
I refer to videos 640 (or more) pixels wide; this, practically, also means it’s fully impossible to play back 720p (that is, 1280-wide) H.264 videos if you don’t disable bilinear filtering or CABAC at encoding time and deblocking at runtime. (Or, you don’t use the simple profile to create a video that is comparatively easy to decode and not includes any goodies like CABAC or bilinear filtering.) If you do all the available techniques to increase video quality, not any of the current Windows Mobile devices will deliver a stuttering-free video playback.
The new Toshiba TG01 with it brand new 1 GHz Snapdragon CPU seems to have changed this all. At the Toshiba booth of MWC, I had the chance to play with the forthcoming TG01. Incidentally, interestingly, at Microsoft’s booth, along with the HTC Diamond II (which I had the chance to play at HTC’s booth and, frankly, found it to be pretty mediocre), the device was behind glass and couldn’t be tested; no such restrictions existed at Toshiba’s booth.
I’ve tested the video playback and H.264 decoding performance with the 464 kbps H.264 video HERE (feel free to conduct the benchmark yourself to make sure I have the right figures). The benchmark, as can be seen in the following screenshot, resulted in a very impressive decoding efficiency: 148%! Again, this is around 100% on contemporary Windows Mobile PDA’s – that is, the speed difference is about 50%. It seems switching to the new platform indeed does deliver some substantive speed increase – unlike the case with the 206 MHz StrongARM -> 400 MHz Intel Xscale PXA-250 switch back in 2002, under Pocket PC 2002.
Gaming and 3D performance was equally good. The device has (enabled) 3D acceleration. I’ve made and posted to YouTube three different videos. THIS one shows a simple tech demo; THIS shows Prince of Persia in action (yes, I know it’s upside down; tomorrow, I take my tripod with me and make a far better video) and, finally, THIS shows a 3D sphere-alike GUI. Note that all these videos are 640*480; as soon as the Panasonic G1 HD or the Canon 500D (hopefully the latter with HD video) comes out, I upgrade to it. Until then, I can only make videos at 15 fps at 1024*768; this is why I've gone for the smaller, but two times faster VGA ones so that you can have a real picture of the speed.
All these three demos / games use the full WVGA screen estate (that is, 800*480) to render their content. Everything is crystal clear.
Note that there are some games that don’t seem to be hardware accelerated. Gameloft’s Asphalt4 is, unfortunately, one of them. I had the chance of playing it on the Samsung Omnia at MWC, on Gameloft’s booth and was really disappointed. It has low resolution and very bad, stuttering graphics – far-far inferior to the hardware accelerated, absolutely perfect iPhone version. Unfortunately, the situation is the same on the TG01 as can also be seen in THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRgu9CEcTAM&feature=related test video.
Now, I only wish the TG01
- Had a D-Pad on the front (there is a LOT of unused space on the face of the device – much more than on, say, the iPhone) to allow for playing games. This device would be an excellent gaming / emulation device – but the lack of a D-pad severely hampers this usage. Read: very few games that require a D-pad for control will be playable.
- Supported call recording (the Toshi folks I’ve asked stated the TG01, unfortunately, won’t allow for recording calls).
- Had a better camera – like that of the (better) Nokia N-series phones or the Samsung Omnia HD.
- Had stereo speakers – again, like some Nokia N-series handsets or the brand new Samsung Omnia HD.
Other, various Toshi shots (click the thumbnails for much larger shots)
(Note that I’ll try to post more tomorrow; for example, direct size comparisons with the iPhone etc.)
As always great report!!
Thanks a lot for bringing this!
Here is another nice game demo in the 2nd half of the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUQD6XLw4ck
nice specs, lets see how the retailpart turns out, 1ghz with just 1000mAh + 800x480 4.1" screen sounds very much like the diamond -> battery dead after one day (if its used).
was the screen capacitive?
Any news on when it might be released?
sdlopez83 said:
was the screen capacitive?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, unfortunately. I'll try to install Opera Mobile on it to find out more about the responsiveness of the screen compared to the iPhone.
Looks awesome. They say if they will make a US 3G version? If so (and maybe even if not) I will have to get one!
New video posted to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=484266 ; soon, I post some size comparisons with the iPhone 3G.
billu said:
Any news on when it might be released?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I've read: 20th week (don't kno where, hopefully here in Europe, so it's on time for my birthday)
This just might be my next device! (or Touch HD because of the community, but hey, who knows how large the TG1 community will become)
Nice report, thanks
To my surprise, the battery is stated 1000 mAH, which is less than HTC Kaiser (1350 mAH) ... and they still say 11 days standby, 5 hours talk time. If that's true then it is amazing. Even though I am very skeptical.
And how about possibility to upgrade to WinMo 6.5? I know that WinMo 6.5 requires a hardware button, but I saw a button that in front It is not funny if it cannot be upgraded to 6.5.
Nope, you will not be able to upgrade the TG01 to 6.5 officially. You'll have to use a cooked rom.
Regards,
Carl.
Related
Hi,
I've recently received my P525 and here's my first impression: I really love it. Could you believe I've migrated from a Nokia N95? I do prefer WM5 over Symbian - it's just plain better, but I'd rather have a machine like the P525 running on Linux, which won't happen soon. I also prefer the P525 2MP camera over the so-called 5MP of the N95. The mechanical auto-focus of the ASUS is just better, and I found the N95 pics too messed up - as if they had some very bad Photoshop filters applied, surely not a natural result.
I've installed Sorg's Simple ROM, added some programs - including Wisbar (Advanced and Desktop), which I find a bit heavy - maybe I could find some apps that could replicate the best of Wisbar's functions without increasing the load? I'll receive any good suggestions.
I've just received a new high capacity battery I got from eBay (2900mah). The thing works and I've been using the phone for 3 days in a row on the first full charge, playing video (2 hours), music (5 hours) and wifi (1 hour). My concern is, I can't have the battery indicator to work. Battery status is always "unknown". I've looked over the net for answers, but found none, excepted some leads on Russian sites, but I can't begin to understand even if translated through babelfish. I've installed some battery related apps, but nothing works. I've found on some forums that the P525 has some issues with batteries - sometimes the power level can freeze, but I don't know if this is related or if there is a known cure for it. I'm sure there is a way to work this problem out, because I use to have a high cap battery on an Axim x51v I've once owned.
If anyone has a clue about this problem, please share with me.
I hope I can learn how to cook my own rom. Will keep you posted if I find the time.
On a final note, after playing with many gizmos over the years, I'd like to share my thoughts about the ideal WM5 or WM6 phone to my taste. The form factor would be identical to the Axim x51v - 3.7" touchscreen with CF and SD card readers. This is the PERFECTLY IDEAL pocket size, as opposed to the too small P525's 2.8", and it's opposite 5" HTC's Athena monster - way too bulky. VGA screen is also a big plus. CF cards is a great addition, because it's the perfect upgrade port for extra hardware functions, and 8GB or 16GB CF cards can give you plenty of space. SDHC is a must, so is host function. 3MP camera is preferable to 2MP, but I'd stick to P525's mechanical focus - and maybe optical zoom too, just like the N93? Finally, Axim's 624mhz with 3D graphics is really great. Another thing: the sound. 3.5mm headphone jack is a must, and I'd add this: Dear phone makers, please, buy the audio technology from Creative and put it into a WM6 machine - you would please all the Zen lovers that cherish real MP3 HiFi sounds, something that was never equaled by any other company so far. I've tried TCPMP, Core Player, 40th Floor, all with the best settings, but nothing came close to my trusty Zen sound clarity. Finally, throw in a SIFRIII chipset, and voila. I'd pay big bucks for such a machine, the ultimate ANTI-IPHONE-IPOD, but it's nowhere near, because I must be alone in my universe.
What would be your ultimate machine?
Regards
Jef
This is probably a really stupid question - but would it be easily possible to "upgrade" the tilt's screen to VGA? Like with the screen from this phone http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/08/e-tens-glofiish-m800-a-better-x800-with-qwerty/
??
The screens look almost the same size if not the same size.... would the screen "plug" be the same.. (is it "standard" for windows mobile phones like VGA is?) and would the OS pickup the new screen?
Sexy thought - having a screen like that on this Tilt.
I'm sure if the measurements are right and you have tons of know-how, it's possible. My best advice would be to hit a mobile site which is tech-y related and hit up some of their guys to try it out.
If you find the answer, let me know. Replacement screens for most PDA's are fairly cheap on eBay.
J
Here's a couple of reasons why putting a VGA screen in the Tilt is a bad idea:
1) VGA screens consume more power on average than QVGA -- it's likely the reason why we don't see many VGA screen phones today -- and the ones that do exist aren't quad band.
2) The processor has to push 4x the number of pixels in VGA which means it needs a fairly beefy processor and a takes corresponding hit on battery life.
(this may also tie into reason 1)
3) VGA support in Windows Media has historically been half-assed, to the point where some view it as a failed experiment.
As a previous Toshiba e800 owner, I can tell you firsthand that VGA caused more problems than it solved. Microsoft decided that smoother fonts and icons were a priority over screen real estate, so while everything looked prettier it didn't really do anything for productivity. There were a few exceptions, like being able to view Exel sheets in VGA but not with Pocket Exel (only Clearvue apps allowed you to display, but not edit, in true VGA -- which was completely goofy). Then along came a couple of brilliant guys who found a way to unlock true VGA mode for everything which was great but caused a number of incompatabilies with older software that was designed when all PocketPC screens were QVGA. Switching between faux-VGA and true-VGA required a soft reset which for some reason took *minutes* in WM2003SE. Playing games was a pain. Trust me.
VGA devices that came after that point were only marginally better. The Loox 720 used a faster processor but it had no graphics accelerator, which really dragged down the performance. The Axim X50V and X51V had graphics acceleration but with a unique Intel chip that had very little support and documentation. HP's offering was decent but had a nonstandard touch d-pad. The HTC Universal tried to strike a balance between power consumption and I'm not sure if it really succeeded in that respect. There was an Asus VGA model that didn't seem to go anywhere, and a very tasty looking Acer model (n311) that either never saw the light of day or was only released in a country whose name I cannot pronounce nor spell.
So if you do decide to go the VGA route in the Tilt:
The Tilt/Kaiser roms likely do not have native VGA support, meaning that you will need to tweak or rewrite the display drivers. I don't think it would be difficult to get the Tilt to display in 'pixel doubled' mode but the results will likely look less than stellar. Support for the ATI acceleration in the Kaiser is either broken or nonexistant at the moment, and no documentation is available. That is a huge blow to getting anything VGA displaying at a decent speed.
One last reality check: Most of the previous VGA devices used screens that were between 3.5 and 4 inches. The Kaiser screen is 2.8 inches. You might see a modest improvement in picture, but it's likely your eyes can't resolve the majority of the extra pixels. (keep in mind that the average user views a PDA screen from about 2 feet away).
in short, if you REALLY must have VGA, go buy a Glofish (and say bye to HSDPA and quadband)
I retract my previous statements. On second thought, it would really suck to have a Tilt with a screen with the quality of, say, a PSP's screen. I couldn't imagine being forced to watch a video file on such a device.
J
What about the eten glofish m800.... which has come out recently.... with triband UMTS/Quad Band GSm and one of the best GPS chipsets available?
How do these 2 compare in graphics speed? Both seem to have their share of issues on this matter.
Spb benchmark results suggest the HTC Polaris is way faster than the X800 (even if I were to multiply the X800 result by 4 to make up for the higher resolution.
However, judging by sites like HTC Class Action, it would be impossible to make a device with slower graphics than the Touch Cruise... ;-)
Can someone verify that results listed for the X800 and/or the Touch Cruise are accurate?
I have them both, actually I am replacing X800 with Polaris because I need more RAM.. and Polaris is slicker..
However video on X800 seems a little bit faster with Xvid encoded avi downsampled to 320x200
Maybe a weird question: Is it possible to change the resolution of the screen on the X800 to 320x240?
(coming from a person who does this all the time in Windows XP...)
evert said:
Maybe a weird question: Is it possible to change the resolution of the screen on the X800 to 320x240?
(coming from a person who does this all the time in Windows XP...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of the time the resolution is only 320x240, if you use a program like realvga it will show you the real resolution and you'll see the difference.
I think the polaris is so much better than the x800, I got the x800 because of the screen and 3g but it is not such a nice device and too slow for everyday use (it was impoossible to watch videos, it just stopped), I replaced it with a polaris and I can't be happier, it's fast, nice looking and has 3g, the screen resolution does not bother me because the x800 also simulates 320x240 (it's to small if you use the real res), there are also issues with video playback on the polaris but overall if I watch something encoded to 320x240 there is no problem at all, it's very smooth.
I've had an x800 and now I happily own a polaris , let me say... the x800 its a real crap
palmbluetooth said:
there are also issues with video playback on the polaris but overall if I watch something encoded to 320x240 there is no problem at all, it's very smooth.
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So anything you have encoded to 320x240 plays smoothly? I just checked some video's on a Nokia N82 which also plays 320x240 smoothly, but I'd still prefer a Touch Cruise because of its screen size...
Well you can’t all say it was crap. I got one because I could wait and not have a device to keep me in check. It’s done me justice, although many times I have found myself banging my head against the wall. But the video quality was brilliant I had no problems unless with massive memory leaks but that was sorted once spb pocket plus went, and so went my beloved "x" button that really closes lol.
now the ram in that is ****E but if manage you phone well use memmaid every so often and don’t mind having a bit of low memory then you won’t really notice it.... my bet is that you guys always had something running in the back ground or installed way too much crap onto it. Eten blog helped me a lot but most of it is just exploration.
One thing that REALLY pissed me off was that the Rom never got the size it’s capable of, 256, it wasa always around 170.......... Mind boggling.
evert said:
So anything you have encoded to 320x240 plays smoothly? I just checked some video's on a Nokia N82 which also plays 320x240 smoothly, but I'd still prefer a Touch Cruise because of its screen size...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, yes, except for one, and I'm not sure why.
Hi, I just tested few more videos and is not smooth at all, for some reason I had a couple of videos that worked fine, but I tested a whole bunch more and it's not smooth, I'm not sure wath's the difference between them, I usually encode them similary.
1. this thing is HUGE and when I mean HUGE, I mean REALLY HUGE.
Just forget anything you ever new about a Pocket PC, the P6500 Sedna beats it all
in size, with the exception of the HTC X7xxx/Advantage series. Kind of a Pocket PC on steroids. I have small hands and I hardly(actually I can't at all) use this thing with one hand only, simply because my thumb isn't long enough.
2. the P6500 Sedna build quality is impeccable, this thing is really made of nice materials. The casing is black(not brownish as some pictures may indicate), it is a dull black, "stealth" like, not glittery at all and it feels well in your hand, kind of semi-soft material. This makes sure that this thing doesn't slide out of your hand accidentally.
3. the HUGE display which by the way only HTC and maybe god know why it is QVGA low resolution, is a bit dull and colors look washed out. Not really the display you want to use for video playback or viewing pictures. On the other hand, the display can be used outdoors, even in bright sunlight. Not as good as the display on my Blackberry Curve regarding direct sunlight but still very good. Also worth mentioning: you can easily use this display with your fingers only, simply because it is HUGE and because, surprise surprise, your fingerprints don't seem to stick to it. I used the P6500 for a couple of minutes with my fingers only and I wasn't able to see one single fingerprint on the display, very impressive.
4. can't say much about video playback capability, I didn't try it yet(my bad). The device feels responsive and fast though, not as fast as a homecooked WM 6 edition but still not bad at all.
5. the speaker is pretty loud, very nice. Ringtones and the speakerphone deliver a very good loudness, I like that. Not so nice: the speaker on the P6500 sounds a bit metal can like, not as pleasant as on other high quality phones.
6. reception is very good, I get a HSDPA connection most of the time and it is at par with the Nokia E90 I'd say. Very impressive seems to be the GPS reception quality, I got a FIRST fix(using Tom Tom 6) in about 15(!) seconds and even more impressive: I got this first fix under a covered(!) and closed roof windows...8(!) satellites. I was still able to receive the signal of 4(!) satellites around one meter away from the windows. WOW!
7. it is a pitty that HTC didn't supply some sort of belt holster for the P6500. The little cheap looking pouch supplied with the unit is pretty much useless. It will be difficult to find a fitting holster for this "little" giant.
8. the HTC P6500 comes pretty much naked, no navigation software installed, nothing special either. Just the fingerprint scanner software is supplied, nothing more.
9. the fingerprint scanner works flawlessly and it is very fast, it is fun to use, definetely.
I don't know how safe this baby is but it works so far very well.
10. the built-in 3MP camera delivers decent pictures but it annoys the user with a countdown from 3 to 1, seriously, no kidding. It is almost impossible to take fast moving pictures at the highest quality setting...well, maybe you could take a picture of a snail moving. HTC definetely needs to take some lessons in the camera department because so far, most of their cameras on their devices STINK.
11. the built-in 1GB NAND memory is a nice feature but with two SD(IO) slots, I wonder if this really was necessary. I don't understand why HTC didn't offer 256 MB RAM and 1GB Flash instead but anyway...1GB NAND is not bad at all, it is fast and you can't loose it.
What HTC could improve:
1. VGA instead of QVGA resolution
2. less "dull" and more colorful display
3. built-in phone speaker should sound more natural
4. camera without the annoying countdown
5. reduction of length by aprox. 1 cm, reduction of width by aprox. 0.5 cm and reduction of depth by aprox. 0.5 cm. This would improve the handling of the P6500 with one hand only
6. touch flow or similar would be actually perfect for the P6500, don't have a clue why it isn't even optional
Seriously, I got almost a shock when I saw the P6500 for the first time. It is SOOOOO HUGE. Still: the size has some sort of coolness factor, can't describe it with words.
Some retailers in Germany advertise the HTC P6500 as the perfect tool for the police, security forces, emergency services, etc. I'm not sure if this has to do with the built-in fingerprint scanner or if the unit is more rigid than other HTC units(no info here) but I still wonder what this giant could do more or better than other WM6 units. Yes, the P6500 has two SD(IO) slots, they come very handy and you may be able to install various tools like scanners, laser taggers or whatever. HTC eventually needs to launch a completely new accessory line for the P6500.
Is it worth buying it? Well...I don't know. Most dealers over here in Germany are asking around 750-799 EUR(incl. VAT) for the P6500, the dealer I played with it at asked 699 EUR for it, not bad compared to the others but still a lot of money. I own the Samsung i780 which is a VERY FAST Pocket PC with a gorgeous display and a great video playback capability, GPS, etc. etc. etc. I paid 450 EUR for this little thing, I just don't see the advantage of the additional 249 EUR for the P6500, especially since there don't seem to be homecooked ROMs available yet.
One things seems to be sure though: you won't see the P6500 Sedna in many hands, making it a pretty exotic Pocket PC in my opinion.
As soon as I have some testing results regarding video playback, etc., I'll post them here.
Sorry, no ROM dump since this isn't my property.
The unit I tested has ROM version 1.10.407.3 dated 01/23/08.
Radio ROM was 1.58.21.23.
The CPU is a Qualcomm 7200 at 400 MHz speed.
Little update regarding video playback: I played a 800MB sized video(Divx) file from a 4GB SDHC memory card using the TCPMP player. No stuttering at all, definetely MUCH better than HTC TyTN II video playback(heavy stuttering of video file).
So it seems to be true...the P6500 does have the necessary extra video drivers for the chipset.
Hi,
THX for the short review, could you please post (if possible) the OS mobile version, may be you can get post the video drivers too...!!
not the drivers, if you could dump the rom itself that would be great, if you go to htcclassaction.org, they are asking for rom dumps form the sedna, so maybe you can help them
Rory
rorydaredkign said:
not the drivers, if you could dump the rom itself that would be great, if you go to htcclassaction.org, they are asking for rom dumps form the sedna, so maybe you can help them
Rory
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'dont think he'll do kind of extraction like that without the respective Hard SPL programm..!!!
qtek_metanol said:
Hi,
THX for the short review, could you please post (if possible) the OS mobile version, may be you can get post the video drivers too...!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but I already answered this:
1. this isn't my property, so I can't extract the ROM
2. I already provided the ROM/Radio version but
if you need to know details, here there are:
Windows Mobile 6 Professional 5.2.1622 (Build 18128.0.4.4)
Right now, I consider the P6500 to be some sort of special usage Pocket PC with no real value for the regular WM user and/or HTC gadget lover.
Yes, it looks weird and huge and the fingerprint scanner works great but this can't be all. The outdoor display is worth mentioning too but on the other hand, it seems to be "dull" and the colors look washed-out, not really a display for video playback and/or picture viewing. I hate to say this but stay away from this thing, it won't make you happy.
isnt there already a rom dump in the kaiser thread..
edit: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381254
hi guys,
I have a question , which is the best windows mobile phone which can play multimedia video files without encoding to smaller resolutions ?
Hope someone have an answer to this ?
I am tired of using htc phones which have a lot of problems with video playback ? Hope some experts can answer my queries ?
Note: I only use windows mobile ,dont say go for iphone, coz I had to convert all the divx shows to mp4.
kind regards
vasa
Tried Core Player?
Psygnosis84 said:
Tried Core Player?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ofcourse, have used kaiser,touch pro , diamond, touch hd, t-mobile mda vario 2, all htc devices, and now currently using xperia x1.Even this phone stutters with the recently downloaded the wire tv shows on core player.
regards
vasa
Depends. If you don't want to play back high-res (VGA+) H.264 video, even a low-cost iPaq 210 will do. If you do need high-res H.264, your only choice (today) is the Toshiba TG01.
Also see my H.264 bible and TG01 report.
not such use really......
Let me give you some real world advice from my PDA experiences!
To summarise:
HTC advantage plays every movie I throw at it (WM 6.5 build 21500.5) using the Imageon or standard decoder.....I am very happy to watch movies when on public transport.....
My old Samsung Omnia was the same, played pretty much everything I wanted to, very good widescreen. Most codecs played out of the box with built in apps. Didnt need anything else. TCPMP was great on it anyway! With a propa cooked rom it was even better. I was happy with it, would have got rid of PSP.....I would happily reccomend this device to any Kaiser or Diamond user as it is very very good for media.....
My mates KAiser sucks movie A*s. Just sucks sucks sucks.
My N95 8Gb runs very very well with newest core player but cant keep up with the HTC advantage or Omnia in terms of its power. You have to run the movies at full size (no shrinking/stretching) so you often get movies that are too big for 320 X 240....but it still kicks it and is very watchable - I just watched 800 MB xvid of Affliction day of reconing on it. All the fights were perfectly watchable (even if I did miss a bit lol)
I can specifically remember back in the day with my 400 Mhz XDA2 WM2003 and SPV with its 133 MHZ....
I had to encode every vid I wanted to watch best to do it to WMV for quality per MB.....
It was not so easy to watch movies....
Then I got an MDA compact (magician)- this was the first small PDA (touch) htc produced......
This was a jump for me over other devices and I found that it would run standard desktop class (read downloaded lol) Xvid and Divx movies (700MB to 1GB) but it was a bit slow and painfull......I was not comfortable watching these...
I then got a Universal. This was a step back from my Magician in terms of its processing power.....seemed to struggle to play same movies...
Then I got an Advantage (X7500) and it was okish on stock mobile 5. Put it up to WM 6.5 now and it truly is a marvel to watch movies on.
Basically.........I am watching tropic Thunder right now DVD rip....
XVID 700MB Mpeg 4 CoreASP
640 X 272
Its running so sweetly I cant imagine anyone could complain.....It stutters so slightly maybe once a min or so but once I am watching the movie I dont even notice. ITs more like a frame skip than a stutter...
The sound is phenominal (3.5 jack on this device) and I am using some skull candy ear buds watching it now. I am honestly thinking the quality with this 640 272 movie is comparable to my PSP running a proper "official" UMD.
I dont want another media device....my advantage is kicking it!!!
IF I didnt have it, I think I would be using an Omnia and I would have sold my N95 (but then I loose all my smbian apps !! )