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Bluetooth GPS - Very Poor Performance!?

Is it just me/my hardware or is GPS over Bluetooth absolutely rubbish!?
I tried a Holux GR-230 unit first but had the usual problems in getting it connected. When I finally did, I was apalled by it's performance, usually failing to get a gps lock at all.
So I ditched it in favour of a Rikaline GPS-6031-X7. It picked up far mor signals and usually obtained a lock almost instantly. However, it's accuracy is very disappointing. Positional accuracy - it's usually ok on a motorway or dual carriageway but at slower speeds, it jumps all over the place, forwards, backwards, in the middle of fields hundreds of yards away - and that's the worst time for it to happen 'cos it's when you slow down for a junction that you actually need it. The second issue is directional accuracy - it often shows me driving sideways as it's so sloooooow to update/recalc the direction.
If this was my first experience of gps, I might be able to forgive it without a benchmark to judge it against. But I've used Navman with an iPaq, a LAM1 unit with my Nokia 9210 and a (cheap) CF device with my Dell Axim and they all performed far, far better! I know that TomTom Navigator 2 isn't the problem as it performed flawlessly on my Axim (PXA255).
So what's going wrong? Is it the bluetooth devices, or the bluetooth technology, or the XDA II? Will O2's bluetooth update improve matters?
I can no longer rely on this and I'm going to have to start taking map backups - something I've never had to do before and really defeats the object.
Any thoughts, experiences, comments, answers?????
Ged.

I think your problem could be the gps receiver.
I am using the Navman 4400 with my XDAII. It took some time and a couple of patches (from this site, thanks guys) to get it to bond via bluetooth, but now it's setup, it works great. It seems to be very accurate and tells me to exit roundabouts just at the correct time.
It's a bit slow to get the initial fix when first switched on (about 2 minutes) but once connected I have no problems.
Is the gps receiver positioned by a heated screen? If so, this will block the signal and produce the problems you describe.

Have you changed your car? Some newer cars have reflective windshields that can cause problems.
Cheers

Thanks guys. I know of both of the issues you describe but I drive a 3 year old clio 172 - no heated/reflective screen. The receiver usually sits on the dash and receives a very strong signal from upwards of 6 sats.
I've now emailed Rikaline too so we'll see what they come up with (if anything).

I am using the Holux GR-230 and it works flawlessly with towas latest patch 1.0.1.2, a very accurate gps based on my own observations with tomtom2.

Hi guys
I have recently received my new XDA II from Orange (know as SPV M1000)
I am using it with the Fortuna Clip On GPS, Tom Tom Navigator and a Jabra 250 headset.
So far I have had no problems with the GPS, it works every time. On a rare ocasion I have to reset the phone to get the head set to work but this is very rare.
Not sure if orange have modified the software but it all seems to work.

I'm beginning to think that it's the XDA that's at fault. I know TTN2 is ok, you guys aren't having any probs with bluetooth gps devices in general, and I'd have to be extremely unlucky to have TWO faulty gps receivers from different manufacturers!
Persuading O2 that it's faulty is another matter though.

i work in the in car navi business and a 3 year old cleo does have a metalic winscreen apart from the hatched area around the rear view mirror (for use with toll tags and other antennas).You will nead a re-radateing antenna mounted externally to get propper reception as the cleo also has a faradays cage effect making radio reception within the cab area very difficult.(they are a ***** to work on)

pinkslayer, shove it in somebody elses car, or slap it on the roof of yours and see how it go's in that location.

Should know my car a bit better really!
I had tried mounting the Holux in front of the rear view mirror but this didn't help so I didn't bother trying the Rikaline. And my wife has a clio too so no point trying it in hers.
So even though I'm locking on to 5-6 sats, it's still not sufficient!? Or is the metallic screen just causing additional latency?

Its not the number of sats, its the strength of the signal received, I have seen 8 sats showing but tomtom wont attempt a route until the signals are strong enough for a lock,

Rikaline GPS-6031-X7
hi all
i use a Rikaline -x7 with TomTom Navigator 2 on my xda ll with the bluetooth pach from
http://bluetooth.i-networx.de/index_e.html
and the update is slow when taking corners (ie the map is slow to turn to the heads up position) or if you come of a motorway/ dual carriageway thats not on the calulated route it will take some time to acknowledge this
but i do not have the problem of it at slower speeds it jumps all over the place
As for accuracy my old tomtom wired gps was better
but the Rikaline-x7 is usable

Thanks peops. I've now tried mounting it on the rear parcel shelf and also stuck it to the shaded area above the rvm but to no avail (even when it was back on the dash this morning, it took 11 minutes to get a fix and another 5 before it could calc direction - cloudy day!). As soon as it's dry enough, I'll mount it outside the car and see how it is.
I don't really want to do down the re-radateing antenna route as the whole point of having portable equipment is that you can use it anywhere and in any vehicle.

Im using the Rikaline GPS 6031-X7 and Im really happy with, no problems at all in fact I think its brilliant............

I'm using the fortuna clipon in a landy with heated windscreen. It doesn't seem to affect the signal (with or without the screen on) and I have to say i was expecting problems with it. It has been the only thing about the whole BT GPS/XDAII setup that I haven't had problems with..
Technology eh!

Anyone using the Navman GPS 4400 with XDA II in Australia?

I am looking at getting a GPS module for use with my XDA II and want navigation software for when I return to Australia in a few months time.
I'm currently in Sydney on holiday and came across the Navman GPS 4400 Wireless receiver with Australian navigation software for AUD$849
I'm new to the idea of PPC GPS having previously used a stand alone GPS so I have a few questions to anyone currently using the Navman GPS 4400 with XDA II Australian software combination.
Is AUD$849 a good price?
Does it work well with the XDA II?
If I use a BT headset can I use the BT GPS at the same time?
Is the map coverage good, fair or poor?
Thanks.
Ed

NAVMAN and Upgrade ROM
I have used the 4400 with an XDA II in Europe, but I'm afraid that after a recent upgrade to the new O2 Asia 1.60ROM I have lost the functionailty completely. TOWA's BTTools 1.02, which worked well with the 1.52 ROM will not work with the upgraded ROM, nor will the BTTools 1.1. I can only set COM7 on the profile, which is precisely the COM port not available on the NAVMAN.
I could not use the BT Headset with the BT GPS at the same time.
As far as map coverage in Australia, I have seen it and it appears to be quite good.
I paid AU$1080 for the Euro maps so your price looks good, but check out the LeadTek GPS unit as well. It seems to have the edge over the 4400 as far as low strength areas are concerned.
Cheers

Fixed, of all the simple things
After yesterday's post, a friend and I had another try to get things working between the XDAII and the 4400, and succeeded.
Firstly make sure you unbond all other Bluetooth devices first so that the NAVMAN gets first pick of the ports.
Install "BTTools", the new 1.1 versions does work. When you bond with the 4400 you will still need to run the "enablechar.exe" program. You will be offered port 7 on TOWA's connect page.
When you open the NAVMAN software, select port 7, 57600 speed.
Here is a little tip that I overlooked. There will be a red box just to the left of the port selection box. If you tap that it opens the port and turns green!!!. How NAVMAN expect you to just find that is amazing as it is not labelled at all. Stupid Software design. (or possibly stupid operator ).
Anyway, happy driving when you get back.
About the only downside of a phone pda combo is that when the phone rings you lose your GPS screen, usually at a critical turn.
Cheers 8)

Thanks for the updated information Camstech, greatly appreciated.

GPS receiver upgrade or to buy Tytn II

Dear All,
before to buy a Tytn II, I'd like to understand if the GPS comes upgraded by the future's ROMs (I think yes) or is necessary a future hardware change ???
P.S.:
I have a Tytn with the GPS Fortuna ClipOn BT, and I don't know is better to change the GPS receiver or buy the new one with GPS included.
Thanks a lot
Ciao ...

ritmia said:
Dear All,
before to buy a Tytn II, I'd like to understand if the GPS comes upgraded by the future's ROMs (I think yes) or is necessary a future hardware change ???
P.S.:
I have a Tytn with the GPS Fortuna ClipOn BT, and I don't know is better to change the GPS receiver or buy the new one with GPS included.
Thanks a lot
Ciao ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buy the new phone - its worth it. The GPS works fine & the phone has a lot more oomph (CPU memory etc)

Seconded, get the Kaiser and off load your BT gps. My Wizard is now relegated to my wifes car with my old BT gps and that is her SatNav solution. I am well happy just having the Kaiser as the gps works as well if not better, and I only have to carry one device around.

Had a bluetooth GPS unit connected to my AXIM as my GPS system before I bought this phone.
My AXIM crashed, battery died flat dead, so I had to use my phone as backup. Used the built-in GPS with TOMTOM on my Kaiser and it was AWESOME- worked perfectly!
Get this phone you won't need anything to supplement it what-so-ever...

No. The Kaiser built-in GPS chipset can't compare to BT-359 SIRF III. It sees less Satellite; also, many of them are invalid signal, that means these satellites were grey. With the ones are blue, the signal keeps going up and down. Sometimes, for somewhat reasons, Kaiser loose the GPS fix (you see the map turn around) even in the clear view sky, then you loose your current position.
If you're driving in the crowed sky area (e.g NYC), stick with bluetooth GPS SIRF III chipset receiver.
Read more here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339257 I had used the BT-338 then upgraded to BT -359 which is slimmer, sleeker but lack of external antenna connector and less of batt. time life.

i have tomtom - works faster.
tilt gps - far worse. but it works at 95%.

ritmia said:
Dear All,
before to buy a Tytn II, I'd like to understand if the GPS comes upgraded by the future's ROMs (I think yes) or is necessary a future hardware change ???
P.S.:
I have a Tytn with the GPS Fortuna ClipOn BT, and I don't know is better to change the GPS receiver or buy the new one with GPS included.
Thanks a lot
Ciao ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Frankly I doubt the inbuilt GPS is going to be as good as an external one. (I reserve my judgement till my Tytn II arrives. However, your decision should be based on expense too. Do you mind spending out the extra for inbuilt GPS by buying a whole new Smartphone?
If yes then no problem because you can still use an external gps. If you want to keep the cost down get an external one. I bought an i-blue 737. The device cost me 30UKP and it's never ceased to amaze me how good it is. This will pick up 7 satelites anywhere in my home regardless of where I am. No need to go near a window, the acuracy is astounding with WAAS + EGNOs enabled and 115000 baud coms.
As I say I doubt the inbuilt one is going to match this but it probably will be fairly decent.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion.

Nghiem said:
No. The Kaiser built-in GPS chipset can't compare to BT-359 SIRF III. It sees less Satellite; also, many of them are invalid signal, that means these satellites were grey.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True for the reception quality, but not for the TTFF which is much shorter with the QualCOMM chipset than with a Sirf III (less than 5 seconds in most cases).
The degradation of the signal due to obstruction (when inside a car for example) is virtually identical to a Sirf III chipset.
The only real weakness with the QualCOMM chipset for the time being is that it has major problems getting a fix when moving quickly. I tried several times to get a fix while moving with ~450mph with a clear view to almost all satellites and the QualCOMM has a very hard time to find more than 2-3 useable satellites. Even after 5-10 minutes no useable position can be determined. Moving quickly to get a fix should not be a problem at all for any GPS chipset.
But I have high hopes that those "quirks" will get fixed with a future firmware update.

The Kaiser has an antenna port specifically for the GPS undeneath the battery cover. I don't know if a battery cover can be found that exposed it more gracefully but I imagine with a small antenna would augment the signal nicely.
That being said, without using an external antenna, I'm actually quite impressed with the accuracy. I wouldn't have anything to compare against it but it's always been dead on for me.
I use TomTom 6 but I've played with google maps and Windows Live Search.
I have noticed it can take a long time to get the first lock on occasion, and especially so when driving at speed. Not really a problem for me, as you usually plan where I'm going while the car is stopped.
-James

Since GPS works with as little as 3 sats, and 4 for 3D positioning, why does everyone worry about getting 7 tuned in? Seems a bit anal to me.
The Kaiser GPS IMHO is a tad slow to init, but other than that, it's worth every penny to not have 2 devices to handle at times. I've never had a problem loosing connectivity, so I'm 100% satisfied with the Kaiser. YMMV of course.
Now if HTC would use a decent CMOS sensor in the camera, then I'd call the phone perfect. But that's another thread...

Dear All,
thanks to everybody about the answers ... I think I'll upgrade my GPS receiver (is more cheap). In this moment, I wait other tests about the GPS of Tytn II.
Ciao, ...

scottwilkins said:
Since GPS works with as little as 3 sats, and 4 for 3D positioning, why does everyone worry about getting 7 tuned in?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because the more satellites you are evaluating, the more precise the position gets and in case you lose track of one of the satellites, you will still be shown a valid position.
Adding to that, the RAIM functionality of GPS receivers for an even more precise position while getting rid of most common GPS erros only works with 5 satellites or more.
So, while it's true that you only need 3 satellites for an 2D position, this fix will not be very precise (due to lack of crosschecking with other satellites and typical GPS calculation errors which happen all the time) and you will lose your position as soon as one satellite disappears from your view.
However GPS receivers which can track more than 12 satellites at any given times are useless because there will never more than 12 satellites visible at any specific point of the earth, most of time you can only track and use a maximum of 8 satellites simultaneously.

vacsed said:
I tried several times to get a fix while moving with ~450mph with a clear view to almost all satellites and the QualCOMM has a very hard time to find more than 2-3 useable satellites.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't your F15 eagle have built in sat nav?

GPS external antena connector??

Hello guys,
Lately im having reception problems on my GPS so wanted to help buying an external antena so:
Just wondering if the connector we can se at the back of the P3600 is a GSM or GPS connector? Because on the HTC website they seem to sell the navigation pack with antena but i cant seem to get just the antena for this phone.
If it is a GPS external connector what type is it mcx or mMCX???
Or im i having reception problems no one else seems to get?
Thanks for your help.

Hello it's GSM connector

jcinfo, thank you for that. No point of wasting money on something thats not going to help me.
Any ideas how to improve the GPS quality?? I cant remember which ROM i installed as it was a long time ago, i think it was the 4.11, if that makes sense.
Thank you

GSP is very long for fix, dont move when you run it !
No idea for improve the signal .

i think antenal's trinity is very sensitive, it can see more satellites. however the fist time to fix is still slower because the chipset buit-in isn't perfect, its doesn't have the SIRFinstandFix the same as SIFR III to improve the time to fix.
to solve this problem, can't connect the GPS external antenal, it maybe is rom radio or drive or a chipset's solution.

Use 1.56 radiorom. Gpsfix will be around 45 - 60 sec.

well, i also have a gpsslim 296 (external GPS based on sirf star III and communicating by bluetooth) which outperforms the internal GPS even without AGPS or quickgps in all aspects: resolution, number of sats, fix speed. Since they probably cost like a gps antenna...

Best Bluetooth GPS Receiver ????

Hi all..
I am trying to but an external gps bluetooth receiver for vox via a friend in the US . . can you please tell me which is THE BEST model~make within 100$ .. i dunno much about the latest technology in receivers... if u can please leave some information as to wat all to look for in a bluetooth gps reciever... thanks ...waiting for replies....

I can't speak as to which GPS receiver is the best, since I have only owned 1 and have not even tried another one, but I guess that says something too. I have a Holux M-1000 bluetooth gps receiver, that I bought off ebay for about $40 or so about 8 months ago. It has never failed me, only losing reception where all other gps's lose their reception (parking garages, basement, elevators, etc.), and actually has much better reception than my other gps PNA's.
I believe it can connect to 30 or so satellites, and has battery life of about 16 hours for me for it's rechargeable battery. It's not bad, and it is cheaper, cost-wise, than some other more expensive receivers.