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Bluetooth GPS - Very Poor Performance!?

Is it just me/my hardware or is GPS over Bluetooth absolutely rubbish!?
I tried a Holux GR-230 unit first but had the usual problems in getting it connected. When I finally did, I was apalled by it's performance, usually failing to get a gps lock at all.
So I ditched it in favour of a Rikaline GPS-6031-X7. It picked up far mor signals and usually obtained a lock almost instantly. However, it's accuracy is very disappointing. Positional accuracy - it's usually ok on a motorway or dual carriageway but at slower speeds, it jumps all over the place, forwards, backwards, in the middle of fields hundreds of yards away - and that's the worst time for it to happen 'cos it's when you slow down for a junction that you actually need it. The second issue is directional accuracy - it often shows me driving sideways as it's so sloooooow to update/recalc the direction.
If this was my first experience of gps, I might be able to forgive it without a benchmark to judge it against. But I've used Navman with an iPaq, a LAM1 unit with my Nokia 9210 and a (cheap) CF device with my Dell Axim and they all performed far, far better! I know that TomTom Navigator 2 isn't the problem as it performed flawlessly on my Axim (PXA255).
So what's going wrong? Is it the bluetooth devices, or the bluetooth technology, or the XDA II? Will O2's bluetooth update improve matters?
I can no longer rely on this and I'm going to have to start taking map backups - something I've never had to do before and really defeats the object.
Any thoughts, experiences, comments, answers?????
Ged.

I think your problem could be the gps receiver.
I am using the Navman 4400 with my XDAII. It took some time and a couple of patches (from this site, thanks guys) to get it to bond via bluetooth, but now it's setup, it works great. It seems to be very accurate and tells me to exit roundabouts just at the correct time.
It's a bit slow to get the initial fix when first switched on (about 2 minutes) but once connected I have no problems.
Is the gps receiver positioned by a heated screen? If so, this will block the signal and produce the problems you describe.

Have you changed your car? Some newer cars have reflective windshields that can cause problems.
Cheers

Thanks guys. I know of both of the issues you describe but I drive a 3 year old clio 172 - no heated/reflective screen. The receiver usually sits on the dash and receives a very strong signal from upwards of 6 sats.
I've now emailed Rikaline too so we'll see what they come up with (if anything).

I am using the Holux GR-230 and it works flawlessly with towas latest patch 1.0.1.2, a very accurate gps based on my own observations with tomtom2.

Hi guys
I have recently received my new XDA II from Orange (know as SPV M1000)
I am using it with the Fortuna Clip On GPS, Tom Tom Navigator and a Jabra 250 headset.
So far I have had no problems with the GPS, it works every time. On a rare ocasion I have to reset the phone to get the head set to work but this is very rare.
Not sure if orange have modified the software but it all seems to work.

I'm beginning to think that it's the XDA that's at fault. I know TTN2 is ok, you guys aren't having any probs with bluetooth gps devices in general, and I'd have to be extremely unlucky to have TWO faulty gps receivers from different manufacturers!
Persuading O2 that it's faulty is another matter though.

i work in the in car navi business and a 3 year old cleo does have a metalic winscreen apart from the hatched area around the rear view mirror (for use with toll tags and other antennas).You will nead a re-radateing antenna mounted externally to get propper reception as the cleo also has a faradays cage effect making radio reception within the cab area very difficult.(they are a ***** to work on)

pinkslayer, shove it in somebody elses car, or slap it on the roof of yours and see how it go's in that location.

Should know my car a bit better really!
I had tried mounting the Holux in front of the rear view mirror but this didn't help so I didn't bother trying the Rikaline. And my wife has a clio too so no point trying it in hers.
So even though I'm locking on to 5-6 sats, it's still not sufficient!? Or is the metallic screen just causing additional latency?

Its not the number of sats, its the strength of the signal received, I have seen 8 sats showing but tomtom wont attempt a route until the signals are strong enough for a lock,

Rikaline GPS-6031-X7
hi all
i use a Rikaline -x7 with TomTom Navigator 2 on my xda ll with the bluetooth pach from
http://bluetooth.i-networx.de/index_e.html
and the update is slow when taking corners (ie the map is slow to turn to the heads up position) or if you come of a motorway/ dual carriageway thats not on the calulated route it will take some time to acknowledge this
but i do not have the problem of it at slower speeds it jumps all over the place
As for accuracy my old tomtom wired gps was better
but the Rikaline-x7 is usable

Thanks peops. I've now tried mounting it on the rear parcel shelf and also stuck it to the shaded area above the rvm but to no avail (even when it was back on the dash this morning, it took 11 minutes to get a fix and another 5 before it could calc direction - cloudy day!). As soon as it's dry enough, I'll mount it outside the car and see how it is.
I don't really want to do down the re-radateing antenna route as the whole point of having portable equipment is that you can use it anywhere and in any vehicle.

Im using the Rikaline GPS 6031-X7 and Im really happy with, no problems at all in fact I think its brilliant............

I'm using the fortuna clipon in a landy with heated windscreen. It doesn't seem to affect the signal (with or without the screen on) and I have to say i was expecting problems with it. It has been the only thing about the whole BT GPS/XDAII setup that I haven't had problems with..
Technology eh!

Whats the point??? GPS and the Tilt

What the hell is the point to have GPS on the tilt when it has the worst reception in the world? I have to have the phone either touching the window or on the dash to even get a signal in my car. And if I am in a wooded area, dont even think about getting a signal....is there any way to boost the signal? seems just like a waist of battery life when it dosent work half the time.
Damn i cannot wait until there is a manual on off switch for GPS, then my battery will last a little longer

Um, what? Not sure how to say this nicely, but you need to read some on the GPS in the Tilt. GPS isn't on unless you are using a program that accesses it directly. And, other than being a tad slow to initialize, it's been rated as a rather good GPS device. At least I have zero problems with it. You might try using the QuickGPS program next time before you try the GPS out on anything. What program are you using for the GPS?

GPS isn't running unless you're running a program using it, so there goes the battery savings. Obviously you're not going to get the performance of a $500 GPS unit in a $300 phone with GPS. Agreed though, I couldn't even pick up a signal until I came to a stop today and held the phone out the window! I pretty much just plan on using it on the golf course...

You guys are nuts, it's working beautifully for me, even out in the mountains... It tracks perfectly via Live Search (although it was disconcerting to have it a bit off while driving over a bridge! )

I actually get pretty good signal, i keep the phone in the center console under the stereo and still get almost full reception. Question i had about quickGPS is when you update it do you have to keep it on to get the benefits of using it? or can you just update and then close it?

You can update it and you are good for 6 days. I too have to say that my Kaiser's GPS works really well, even gets a few birds indoors.

I'm using TomTom 6. I've never owned any kind of GPS but I can often get a signal inside my home if I'm close to a window. As I understand it it, this is actually quite a sensitive GPS.
Add me to the list of satisfied owners.
-James

My GPS works great also... something else you may want to realize is that with anything that utilizes a signal from a satellite then it needs to be line of sight... It is possible for the signal to penetrate some structures but its going to be best used when it has a clear view of the sky.

Am also very satisfied with the GPS-reception although my old E-ten Glofiish X500 was a little better at this (but worse on all other stuff... ;-)
Also be aware of the fact that GPS-units in cars with embedded sun-protection in the windscreen (not sure how you call this in English, it is basically this blue-ish thin layer of foil over the whole windscreen) get much worse reception than in cars without this. Usually French cars have this by default.
The QuickGPS (assisted GPS) tool usually does not improve things for me btw.
Edward

I think its quite likely the people complaining has anti-frost layers on their screens.
Surur

surur said:
I think its quite likely the people complaining has anti-frost layers on their screens.
Surur
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Didn't think about it before, but my Land Rover has the heated windshield with wires running throughout. Probably doesn't help. I'm thoroughly satisfied with it overall though.

Many cars now have a vaporized metal layer in the glass for whole window defrosting, it makes a great shield for blocking satellite signals...

Can't complain about the GPS, its not as good as a dedicated device (Garmin Nuvi). But nice to have with Live Search if traveling without the nuvi.
Performance is not bad in the car. It helps if you're stationary to acquire sats. Anyone know if there is an app to check the sat tracking?

Actually I find it better than a Nuvi (assuming you load a good Nav app on the phone) because you get nav and things like Live Search and Google Maps which together, are pretty awesome.
You can search for GPS viewers but here's one...

I don't have a problem with using any GPS app TT, Copilot, iGo etc and the reception on my unit seems to be peachy, i get sats in my house as well as in cars with front demisters and sun shielding foil (i must just be lucky).
Not had it cut out on me except in tunnels that are too long to keep the signal (although through the Alps I kept full signal for 17 km in a tunnel through a mountain thanks to their internal antenna).
Very happy with the GPS built in its worth the money for the phone on its own for me.
Russ

QuickGPS
I have been using it in my car via Google Maps "Track Location" command from the menu and it has worked like a charm for me. I agree with initiallizing it while stopped, it takes about 30 sec - 1 min to initialize then works great. My car is old and doesn't have any new advances that may interfere.
I was showing it to a friend indoors after using the QuickGPS program (Start -> Programs -> Tools -> QuickGPS) and he suggested that it uses a combination of cell towers vs it's GPS info it downloaded. Don't know if you can use this info to help you out but it may explain a bit.

The GPS works great on the Kaiser. That you don't have to mess with it, i.e. it turns itself on and off completely on its own only when needed is awesome. If you think its onl all the time, you are either running a GPS prog constantly or just confused.
It picks up a signal very very well. The onyl thing I will say is it is n't the most accurate. I mean it isn't quite as accurate as a true Sirf III chipset unit. So, it isn't the best for using for golf (i.e. it can still be a few yards off, enough to matter). But for driving, directions, routing, etc. it works nearly perfectly.

RemE said:
Actually I find it better than a Nuvi (assuming you load a good Nav app on the phone) because you get nav and things like Live Search and Google Maps which together, are pretty awesome.
You can search for GPS viewers but here's one...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the cab I'll give it a try. I like to keep things lean on the phone... still trying to make it a phone first, before anything else... So I try to keep apps to a minimum.
In a pinch, MS Live is great! I do prefer the larger screen on my Nuvi for driving... and it seems to do a better job tracking when I'm speeding down the highway.

I am surprised how well it works, I have a Garmin 2610 (yes its old, about 4to 5 years old) I put the Kaiser with TomTom 6 side by side on the car dash and they both perform great, the garmin a bit faster in aquaring Sat signal, but as I drive acuracy and speed its about the same. I still prefer the Garmin due to larger screen but its a dedicated GPS unit the kaiser is a Phone with GPS, but over all I think the GPS on the kaiser is great.
My $0.02 cents (Canadian)

GPS and Tilt
Actually I have a Dell bluetooth GPS receiver and I can confirm that the Tilt GPS works way better than Dell. It takes only few seconds to lock onto the satellites. I am more than satisfied.

How to open agps on x7510

Do we have the advance config as daimond to open agps on x7510?

Does it need aGPS?
It has full GPS.

ponder said:
does it need agps?
It has full gps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it could make your device to get the satelite faster
as my diamond

The X7510 is definitely compatible with HTC QuickGPS as it is in some of the cooked ROMs.
Whether it would make much difference is a moot point!
I find I get a 3D lock in about 2 minutes if stationary, but it can be 10-12 minutes if actually moving. QuickGPS would not alter the lock time when mobile, as this is dependent on current signal strength, rather than the Ephemeris data. When static, QGPS may give you a few seconds advantage.
There are a number of 'definitions' of AGPS however, and no true right or wrong answer. The full implementation of A-GPS uses the GPS satellite receiver, in conjunction with a chipset feature AND mobile operator compliance to operate fully. This uses your location as sensed by your cell connection to boost the local GPS signal and supplant it if needed with a sort of triangulation algorithm to give your rough location, leaving the GPS receiver less work to do.
The original iPhone used the cell triangulation method in the absence of a true GPS receiver, and some people refer to this as A-GPS.
QuickGPS is an in-between- it simply populates the receiver's cache with Emphemeris data based on your gross location (Northern/Southern hemisphere and East/West).
Some configuration programs (eg Schaps Advanced Config) have an 'A-GPS' enable/disable setting. This should only be used in cases where the cell tower is sending GPS data. This does not currently happen at all in UK, though O2 are dabbling with it. Users who have this enabled without the supporting infrastructure are finding that their GPS signals are very unreliable, especially with TomTom. The GPS loses connection every few seconds then remakes it.
Confused? So am I

NeilM said:
The X7510 is definitely compatible with HTC QuickGPS as it is in some of the cooked ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought my x7510 in Kuwait and we get all our HTC devices straight from HTC with their default loads. The reason I say this is to tell you that HTC includes QuickGPS in the x7510 from the factory.
Whether it would make much difference is a moot point!
I find I get a 3D lock in about 2 minutes if stationary, but it can be 10-12 minutes if actually moving. QuickGPS would not alter the lock time when mobile, as this is dependent on current signal strength, rather than the Ephemeris data. When static, QGPS may give you a few seconds advantage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When stationary I have never waited more than about 45 seconds unless I am inside and have no view of the sky. When mobile I have never had to wait more than 1 - 2 minutes. Sorry to hear of your reduced performance of the GPS. I actually find it to be really fast and accurate. I wish it polled more than once per second, but I can live with that.

Kasush said:
I bought my x7510 in Kuwait and we get all our HTC devices straight from HTC with their default loads. The reason I say this is to tell you that HTC includes QuickGPS in the x7510 from the factory.
When stationary I have never waited more than about 45 seconds unless I am inside and have no view of the sky. When mobile I have never had to wait more than 1 - 2 minutes. Sorry to hear of your reduced performance of the GPS. I actually find it to be really fast and accurate. I wish it polled more than once per second, but I can live with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i always use the GPS fuction in my car,the glass is covered by the window film,the brand name is 3M made by Japan.
it maybe block the GPS signal...
if i used the GPS outdoor,it is normal as my other phone -diamond

Is it a heated front windscreen?
My last car had one and it's like a brick wall to GPS. I had to get a repeater to get it working.

ponder said:
is it a heated front windscreen?
My last car had one and it's like a brick wall to gps. I had to get a repeater to get it working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
me too.
Now,i spent 30 seconds to get the gps signal outside,then get in the car

Raphael Antenna Hard Mod

Hi, I am seriously considering making a wifi/GPS antenna hard mod to increase reception for these services. My raphael has about 3x lower reception for both wifi and satelites than my older buddy HTC Artemis and I am really getting pissed, because enhancing the signal through software has its limits.
I wanted to ask if anyone has experiences with this procedure or wifi/gps antennas in general. I don't know which metal to use or whether should I focus on extending the antenna length or make the surface larger.
Here is the disassembly procedure http://translate.google.com/transla...tp://www.pdacenter.ru/razborka/htc-touch-pro/
Here is directly the antenna http://www.pdacenter.ru/images/Touch_Pro-031.jpg
Any input is appreciated, I want to gather as much information as I can before I make the mod. I would not prefer trial and error on this one

before you embark on this ambitious journey, have you tried everything you can do?
1) different Radios/Roms
2) using certain materials to boost the reception? (like those wifi usb external mod/dish aka this
your friend's Artemis uses SiRF III chip, which is one of the best GPS chips... but this chip is separate from other stuff, draws a lot of power
the HTC Touch Pro uses the Qualcomm MSM7201A which integrates GPS, Wifi, GSM, obviously less power sucking and one less chip, and hence gives a little less performance than the SiRF III chip
how about an external BT GPS unit? i have one for my Dell Axim x51v PDA, the BT SiRF III unit has it's own 1300mAh battery that lasts at least 8 hours
can't help you on the WiFi side though... up to you to try to up the antenna, but you are risking your $200+ device, and i don't think there is any place inside the device to place a better antenna (unless you hang it outside, or get the extended battery cover)

I tried everything, radios, hours of registry tweaking and field testing.
Best I can get is cold GPS lock in 2-3 minutes and wifi is stable when I set lower beacon interval in routers. But my artemis can do both much much better without any hacks, don't tell me this is purely Qualcomm issue. I get zero wifi signal on raphael and about half on artemis under same conditions so I believe this is problem with poor antenna rather than chipset/drivers.
External GPS module is not an option and it doesn't solve the wifi signal issues in areas where I don't have admin access to the router/AP.
I am really willing to go through with it once I gather enough info but I will TRY not to do anything destructive to the antenna so that the mod is reversable if it has no effect.

I would not want to try modifying the antenna myself. At these frequencies and antenna size it is more art than science. A seemingly innocent change could render it completely useless and could be irreversible.

ok its not that hard to get a gps lock in 15 secs or so .
first flash NRG's latest rom (mercury 7/29)
second flash this radio http://rapidshare.com/files/220917041/Raph_Radio_1.14.25.05.zip
DO NOT CHANGE RILPHONE.DLL'S the one provided in the rom works best with this radio .
once the rom is up and running do the following:
go to start>gps>quickgps>and click download . it really helps and lasts for a week . if you travel or drastically change in loacation (a couple hundred miles ) where the gps isn't active during that time i reccomend redownloading in the new location .
and finnaly go to start>settings>system>AGPS Settings > and click in the box to enable it . then click ok to exit and try google maps (which is installed in the rom already).
you can find google maps in start>gps if you don't get a lock withing 20 seconds then you should search for either
t-back's agps settings
or
atomang's agps settings
and download the respective cabs .

to add to my previous post i flashed his most recent rom yesterday and just followed my own instructions and got a lock in about 12 to 13 seconds .
note this was a cold start and the first time to use gps on the rom .
the best part is ... im inside my house . so i can't belive how fast it would be outside !

Guess you're lucky to get one of the few working pieces
I don't have data plan so no AGPS for me (I'm in Europe we have wifi everywhere).
Actually I get cold fix in about 3-10s from 5 satellites but the fix is extremely unstable and HDOP is 25-600, tooks 2 minutes to settle down and get stable reading with HDOP < 5. This is all because the satellite signals are very weak, I get like 20-35% of the signal bars most of the time. Artemis rarely drops any satellite below 60%. I get the feeling that raph needs much more satellites to get a precise fix to compensate the poor signal, while artemis can get a stable lock with 4 or 5 sats.
And yeah I have Energy ROM with my own GPS tweaks which get faster lock than NRG's defaults.

wow , you should try the austrailian radio . ive heard it works good outside of the usa
i never hve less then 7 satelites in my area and i also have unlimited data so agps (tbh i didn't even know it used data thx for tellin me lol)
sorry man i can't help you other than what i have said lol .

Well after much consideration I gave up the hard mod and started more research to software approach and I have to say it was a success!
I am getting cold GPS lock in under 30s, warm lock is virtually instant.
Using this setup:
Energy ROM 2.0 b41609
Xperia Radio 1.16.25.48 (needs security unlock first)
1.16.25.48 Rilphone DLL
Took my time with trial and error and made a registry tweak for the GPS driver as well.

[Q] what about the gps

Hi !
I have a desire s and the acuracy of the gps is sometimes awfull.
With gps test it sometimes give me a precision of 6m and sometime of 80m what is a big problem when your driving a in a big city where the is 3 or for road side by side.
If somebody can make some test with the gps precision of the one s.
I would apreciate it.
Thanks in advance.

a) Where is the phone located in the car when driving?
b) Have you downloaded some GPS Toolbox that gives you a clear overview of how many satellites are in view? Especially IN CITIES the line of sight to the sky varies a lot and can often obscure satellite fixes when being jammed between high rise buildings.
c) Do you have the most current radio firmware (I believe this one contains the GPS stack also).
As I rely on navigations by phone a lot too I will be happy to give you results once my One S comes in, however I can only compare to my current Sensation which has never given me any problems.
Also note that some types of cars have a coating on the windscreen that screws with GPS reception, so if you have a high end vehicle with an expensive optional windscreen this might be the cause (although unlikely, people driving those cars with those options usually have onboard satnav).

My car is from 2004, and I did not have any problem with my htc hd mini and my touch cruise before. same car holder on the windscreen.
And I already have flash lastest htc stock rom ans lastest radio, it 'sa bit better than the bouygues telecom rom and radio that came with the phone but last time in paris the gps was lost during 15mn hopfully a friend had a htc hd2.
Your feedback will be apreciated.
Thanks

Hi, I've had the same problem with a Desire HD Gps. It took ages to fix or accuracy was terrible. One S Gps receiver is way better than that. I takes seconds to fix even at home (old one only worked when placed in the window).

As promised I have just sampled the GPS of the One S and the Sensation side to side (I used a MyTracks recording while they were both in my rear jeans pockets when walking the dog).
The routes have only minimal differences. Initial GPS acquisition on the One S was a bit slower than on the Sensation, but I credit that to needing to get a "fix" while the Sensation already has one (and the GPS satellite manifest) for my area cause I use it regularly. It was the first time GPS was ever turned on on that phone so a little delay is understandable.
No difference to be measured, both OK. will update once I actually use the One X with CoPilot Nav Software in a crowded city with high rise buildings etc. that block the view but I expect the same performance that I got from the Sensation.
Maybe this helps.

thanks
I have passed my order today