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Bluetooth GPS - Very Poor Performance!?

Is it just me/my hardware or is GPS over Bluetooth absolutely rubbish!?
I tried a Holux GR-230 unit first but had the usual problems in getting it connected. When I finally did, I was apalled by it's performance, usually failing to get a gps lock at all.
So I ditched it in favour of a Rikaline GPS-6031-X7. It picked up far mor signals and usually obtained a lock almost instantly. However, it's accuracy is very disappointing. Positional accuracy - it's usually ok on a motorway or dual carriageway but at slower speeds, it jumps all over the place, forwards, backwards, in the middle of fields hundreds of yards away - and that's the worst time for it to happen 'cos it's when you slow down for a junction that you actually need it. The second issue is directional accuracy - it often shows me driving sideways as it's so sloooooow to update/recalc the direction.
If this was my first experience of gps, I might be able to forgive it without a benchmark to judge it against. But I've used Navman with an iPaq, a LAM1 unit with my Nokia 9210 and a (cheap) CF device with my Dell Axim and they all performed far, far better! I know that TomTom Navigator 2 isn't the problem as it performed flawlessly on my Axim (PXA255).
So what's going wrong? Is it the bluetooth devices, or the bluetooth technology, or the XDA II? Will O2's bluetooth update improve matters?
I can no longer rely on this and I'm going to have to start taking map backups - something I've never had to do before and really defeats the object.
Any thoughts, experiences, comments, answers?????
Ged.

I think your problem could be the gps receiver.
I am using the Navman 4400 with my XDAII. It took some time and a couple of patches (from this site, thanks guys) to get it to bond via bluetooth, but now it's setup, it works great. It seems to be very accurate and tells me to exit roundabouts just at the correct time.
It's a bit slow to get the initial fix when first switched on (about 2 minutes) but once connected I have no problems.
Is the gps receiver positioned by a heated screen? If so, this will block the signal and produce the problems you describe.

Have you changed your car? Some newer cars have reflective windshields that can cause problems.
Cheers

Thanks guys. I know of both of the issues you describe but I drive a 3 year old clio 172 - no heated/reflective screen. The receiver usually sits on the dash and receives a very strong signal from upwards of 6 sats.
I've now emailed Rikaline too so we'll see what they come up with (if anything).

I am using the Holux GR-230 and it works flawlessly with towas latest patch 1.0.1.2, a very accurate gps based on my own observations with tomtom2.

Hi guys
I have recently received my new XDA II from Orange (know as SPV M1000)
I am using it with the Fortuna Clip On GPS, Tom Tom Navigator and a Jabra 250 headset.
So far I have had no problems with the GPS, it works every time. On a rare ocasion I have to reset the phone to get the head set to work but this is very rare.
Not sure if orange have modified the software but it all seems to work.

I'm beginning to think that it's the XDA that's at fault. I know TTN2 is ok, you guys aren't having any probs with bluetooth gps devices in general, and I'd have to be extremely unlucky to have TWO faulty gps receivers from different manufacturers!
Persuading O2 that it's faulty is another matter though.

i work in the in car navi business and a 3 year old cleo does have a metalic winscreen apart from the hatched area around the rear view mirror (for use with toll tags and other antennas).You will nead a re-radateing antenna mounted externally to get propper reception as the cleo also has a faradays cage effect making radio reception within the cab area very difficult.(they are a ***** to work on)

pinkslayer, shove it in somebody elses car, or slap it on the roof of yours and see how it go's in that location.

Should know my car a bit better really!
I had tried mounting the Holux in front of the rear view mirror but this didn't help so I didn't bother trying the Rikaline. And my wife has a clio too so no point trying it in hers.
So even though I'm locking on to 5-6 sats, it's still not sufficient!? Or is the metallic screen just causing additional latency?

Its not the number of sats, its the strength of the signal received, I have seen 8 sats showing but tomtom wont attempt a route until the signals are strong enough for a lock,

Rikaline GPS-6031-X7
hi all
i use a Rikaline -x7 with TomTom Navigator 2 on my xda ll with the bluetooth pach from
http://bluetooth.i-networx.de/index_e.html
and the update is slow when taking corners (ie the map is slow to turn to the heads up position) or if you come of a motorway/ dual carriageway thats not on the calulated route it will take some time to acknowledge this
but i do not have the problem of it at slower speeds it jumps all over the place
As for accuracy my old tomtom wired gps was better
but the Rikaline-x7 is usable

Thanks peops. I've now tried mounting it on the rear parcel shelf and also stuck it to the shaded area above the rvm but to no avail (even when it was back on the dash this morning, it took 11 minutes to get a fix and another 5 before it could calc direction - cloudy day!). As soon as it's dry enough, I'll mount it outside the car and see how it is.
I don't really want to do down the re-radateing antenna route as the whole point of having portable equipment is that you can use it anywhere and in any vehicle.

Im using the Rikaline GPS 6031-X7 and Im really happy with, no problems at all in fact I think its brilliant............

I'm using the fortuna clipon in a landy with heated windscreen. It doesn't seem to affect the signal (with or without the screen on) and I have to say i was expecting problems with it. It has been the only thing about the whole BT GPS/XDAII setup that I haven't had problems with..
Technology eh!

GPS Problems? Yup everyone

http://free-pc-guides.com/news/first-att-samsung-captivate-owners-report-problems-with-gps-02887

This is such a sensationalist article. There aren't any problems with the GPS. You're supposed to use a GPS outside, and even inside, mine got a signal fine.
This article also says that T-mobile is expected to get the Captivate, which is false. It already has the Vibrant.

What GPS Problem??

No problems for me, thus far...

Mine has locked once. After that it refuses and just triangulates using cell towers and accurate within 2600 meters.

I'm not sure I would call it a "problem", but the GPS chip in these things is definitely not as good as the GPS chips in most other newly released phones. It could be a software issue, but I doubt it. The Aria would consistently lock onto twice as many satellites as this thing. When driving near large buildings and under bridges I sometimes lose a lock and Google Nav jumps around, which never happens in those same places with the Aria.

It seems to be working fine for me, but then I saw that someone had posted a fix for it when you dialed into the GPS settings, so I did that, and now.... it's still working fine!

gtg465x said:
I'm not sure I would call it a "problem", but the GPS chip in these things is definitely not as good as the GPS chips in most other newly released phones. It could be a software issue, but I doubt it. The Aria would consistently lock onto twice as many satellites as this thing. When driving near large buildings and under bridges I sometimes lose a lock and Google Nav jumps around, which never happens in those same places with the Aria.
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I've recently used both an Evo and an ATT-band Nexus One. I do have to say that the GPS on both of those seemed to acquire signals from satellites much faster than the Captivate, and give a more accurate location. Even standing outside, in the open, this one never appears to lock in on my precise location as well. I realize that's only anecdotal, but I no longer have access to either of the other devices.

Maybe its just mine, but I traveled over 300 miles today using Google Navigation, the phone up in the dash, with a clear view of the sky keep on having issue finding me.
I have an N1 and Aria, neither of these have these issues.

Do the specs indicate which GPS chip is being used? Some are better than others. Is it SirFStar III, IV, or MTK or what? This can certainly make a difference but costs about the same, so why get a cheapo chip? Hope Samsung did not do that.

GPS is definitely poor. From watching GPS Test I'd wager it's a firmware issue. No reason to have satellites popping in and out of view in the middle of a field on a clear day...
I've had many GPS units (>10) and the GPS in the phone is the second worst I've ever had. Very flaky. It looks like they also tried to mask the problem by averaging a bunch of the last fixes. I say this because the speed indication trails reality by quite a bit!
And I did try the proposed settings elsewhere but it didn't seem to improve much.
Hopefully they'll get this fixed. It's not the way GPS should be working on a top tier phone.

AJerman said:
It seems to be working fine for me, but then I saw that someone had posted a fix for it when you dialed into the GPS settings, so I did that, and now.... it's still working fine!
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Okay, so to change my stance a little, the GPS has been a little off tonight. Locking has been slower than I like, but it has been locking, and I saw it lock to at least 7 satellites earlier so I know it has no issue with handling that many at once.
The bigger annoyance that I'm having now is that my AGPS is off by quite a bit, telling me I'm in the next town over until it gets a full GPS signal. Not only is this annoying, but it also throws off every app that uses the cell data for coarse location, and I wouldn't be surprised if it has an effect on how fast it locks to the actual GPS satellites since it has the wrong location info to start which is the whole point of AGPS.

I actually did the GPS tweaks found in another thread, and I was navigating around my city. Maps was spot on for 98% of the time. Once or twice it put me about 30 meters away, but that was when i was surrounded by trees or concrete. Overall, I was very VERY impressed with the voice navigation, and the re-routing it did when i drove past a turn!

hmose said:
Do the specs indicate which GPS chip is being used? Some are better than others. Is it SirFStar III, IV, or MTK or what? This can certainly make a difference but costs about the same, so why get a cheapo chip? Hope Samsung did not do that.
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Click to collapse
I'm starting to think that the processor and screen on this phone cost so much that Samsung had to cut corners in other areas to keep prices competitive. So far we've seen widespread evidence of crappy chargers (take forever to charge), GPS chips (slow and not very accurate), compasses (all over the place), internal memory (slow memory is causing the stalling issue / lag), and lack of camera flash. Hopefully not all of those are hardware issues and some can be fixed with software, but I'm just saying, they might have cut some corners to keep this thing reasonably priced. Personally, I would have rather paid $100 more to have the best phone ever made hands down. Oh Samsung.

I got it to lock like one time outside. Then I found this http://androidforums.com/samsung-captivate/128026-everyone-who-having-gps-problems.html and now it locks on inside my house. And this is actually GPS I'm talking about not wifi/cell tower triangulation. Hope it helps some of you.

I picked mine up the 19th in the burbs of Chicago. Drove up to Milwaukee with it the same day and did a side by side comparison with my Garmin GPS after my friend sent me the article.
Besides 2 minor hiccups, they worked very similar.
*the first hiccup shouldn't even be credited as a hiccup because it was an alternate route, I knew from experience it was slower but my Garmin and my Magellan of past never recognized it as the faster route.
*the second hiccup was when I was driving down 294 to merge into 94. Both had about the same instruction but out of nowhere my captivate's nav system said to take a left into a random road. It "recalculated" after a quick flicker and went back on course with my Garmin.
Recently I noticed there was an update for the Maps application which gave me "Navigation" and after installing it, I prefer my phone to my Garmin because:
1. It now gives you a picture of the destination in "street view" which you can touch and scroll around when you've arrived or pretty much arrived.
2. It shows traffic (green is good, red is bad)
3. I'm not sure if this was before the update but you can scroll through the map using the touch screen rather than just zooming in and out.
I'll do a few more runs driving between Milwaukee and the Chicago burbs before I completely set aside one or the other, but my experience has definitely met my expectations of a GPS

Why not download GPS NMEA MONITOR App and watch the data sentences. If they keep coming then it is a software problem, not the GPS Chipset. If those data sentences are stopped, then you got a hardware chipset reception problem. Try getting a clear view of the sky.

Zero GPS issues here, faster then backflip, tilt, & tilt2 for me. Grabs and maintains connection just fine.

my GPS testing: OK for me. My opinion...

I bought my first Captivate at the very beginning of August. I wanted the GPS to work, so I could use it instead of a separate GPS unit sometimes. After about 5 days the GPS was really struggling to lock. I put it outside under the open sky for 5 minutes with GPS Test, and it saw lots of satellites but used zero. I reset the phone and poof, it worked properly again. That seemed like a strange bug to me. I heard an update was coming by the end of September, but that was going to be outside my 30 days, so I returned my Captivate to Best Buy and got my $230 back, no problems.
Sept 7, I bought a new Captivate, now only $150 at Best Buy. This one worked fine and the GPS never completely failed like the first one did. But I didn't test much as I waited for the update. September 22 I forced the update on my normal unrooted captivate, and it went fine. I did some testing and the GPS seemed to track OK and lock in a reasonable time. Now its a week later and it still seems good.
Here are a couple comments.
First a note on my GPS experience. I own 3 GPS units besides the Captivate, and older MIO C230, a Garmin eTrex Centure HC, and SPOT 2 GPS Messenger. I also have extensive experience with a Garmin Nuvi 1390T. I ride a dirt bike in the desert and have used tracks to navigate extensively.
- Time to get satellite lock. The Captivate does often take a while to lock on the satellites. But so do all my other GPS devices. Sometimes they lock quickly, but often they can take a minute or more. This is related to whether they have stored data on where they are, and thus know where to look for the satellites. At any rate I don't always get a quick lock on the Captivate, but it has never failed to get a lock under a clear sky if I give it up a minute or two. 10m resolution is typical once locked under a unobstructed sky. For those having trouble with this: Are you giving the Captivate a clear view of the sky and a couple minutes? Yes, sometimes GPS's lock indoors and really quickly. But in my experience this isn't always true. What I'm saying is the Captivate works similarly to the other GPS's I use. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow. But it is always locking under a clear unobstructed sky within a couple minutes.
- Google maps. After it locks, the captivate shows my location on the map well. As I said above, sometimes lock takes a minute or more. And it requires a clear view of the sky most of the time.
- Track quality. I tested with "My Tracks". I run around town on a scooter every day, so its easy to turn on the tracker and and see what happens. I put the Captivate in my pocket on my thigh, back side facing the sky. The only thing obscuring its view is my body. Basically, it seems to work fine. It certainly works as well as my Garmin eTrex. The eTex tracks are always a bit rough too. Yes, the Captivate track does sometimes cut the corner or the curve and is off the street that I actually rode on. But it basically follows my route well. It has always followed me when I loop around a block, or drive down a short dead end and come back. I can definitely tell where I went and what roads I took when I look at the track. I'm not bothered if it shows me 20-40 feet off the road on occasion (as I have noted, so does my Garmin eTrex). I expect this with a 10m resolution.
- Navigation. I've been using the google Navigation app on drives in the car. I mount the Captivate in a mount on the dash, so it has a clear view of the sky through the glass. It's not on the seat, or in the ashtray or in a cup holder. It's mounted to the windshield close to the front, so it has a good view of a broad expanse of sky. This is exactly how I mount the Mio GPS or Garmin etrex or Garmin Nuvi when I use those in the car. Used like this, my Captivate navigation has been excellent. Frankly, its far better app than the Mio or Garmin Nuvi 1390T that I have used. The searches are quick and I like the presentation. Obviously, in Navigation the app knows to lock you on the street. And when I drive past an indicated turn it always notices immediately.
Summary: So I don't know what has changed since my first Captivate, but this one seems fine to me. I don't know if it's the hardware, or the SW update. But so far mine works as well as the other GPS devices I have used. If it keeps working like this for another week, I'm definitely keeping it. I'm sure some have trouble, as I did with my first Captivate. And I do think some others expect too much: I don't expect the Captivate to be "THE BEST GPS" I have ever seen. I expect it to lock within 2 minutes, work for navigation in my car, to find me on a google map and to record a track of where I went. This all seems to be working for me. (And usually it locks in well under a minute for me). I think I'll keep it... if this performance keeps up.
IMO, YMMV
Carl

vintagephone/Carl. Yours is a very useful write up. I use a Garmin GPS for Geocaching, some street navigation and bicycle riding in the country. What you wrote should be very helpful to someone not so familiar with GPS devices in general. Thanks.
= Ron

I completely agree. People looking at 'my tracks' and showing that there are some slight variations - we don't even know if the google maps is 100% accurate, as I know there are certain places where it doesn't match up directly with the road. I think as long as no errors are being presented during navigation (mine is doing fine in navigation mode) there is not really any complaining that can be done. Even my built in car GPS makes a mistakes once in a blue moon.

I'm not sure what Garmin Nuvi you're using, but I have a 2 yr old 250W and it smokes this phone. The phone has me driving through people's yards and buildings. It has gotten better since the JH7 update, its almost what I would call usable now. Try doing a Mytracks track on it, its a joke how far off it is. Its certainly unusable for that.

derek4484 said:
I'm not sure what Garmin Nuvi you're using, but I have a 2 yr old 250W and it smokes this phone. .
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I'm very familiar with the Garmin I used, a Nuvi 1390T. Negatives for the Garmin included horrible traffic reports, and searches for my destination took forever. Basic Navigation was OK, if you knew the address of where you were going. And if you were going someplace more than 30 miles away (a common undertaking in the LA basin), you just couldn't get there. Searches on the Nuvi only include locations within 30 miles. Frankly, the search was much worse than on my old Mio. I had the Nuvi 1390 for a couple weeks and returned i just as I got my second Captivate. For basic GPS navigation, the Nuvi was OK, but I saw no advantage over the Captivate. Are you mounting your Captivate in the same way and place you are mounting your Nuvi? I actually use a modified Nuvi windshield mount with my Captivate, so my mounting is literally identical.
Now, you Captivate my not work as well as mine. My original Captivate was worse than this one. As I said, YMMV (your mileage may vary).

I use a Garmin V GPS receiver for Geocaching and some other activities which demands a very high degree of accuracy. This receiver will use as many birds as it can find (seldom less than five) to determine its location but a cell phone GPS receiver may limit the number of satellites it tracks to conserve battery power.
Using four satellites, the accuracy of the Garmin V typically comes down to a target area that is two to twenty feet in diameter. This unit is fast; I can watch the current location triangle move past streets just as I am able to make out the street signs.
The Captivate I ordered will not be here until later today so I can't report anything about my experience with that device. I have been using an HTC device (AT&T "Tilt") and Google Maps for several years now and can report it has very good GPS accuracy and speed when compared to the Garmin unit. I would be pleased indeed if the Captivate even comes close to the performance of the Tilt.
As with any GPS device, it has to have line of sight visibility with at least three satellites to report its position with any reliability. Clouds (with heavy moisture), trees and tall buildings can reduce GPS accuracy substantially. Bicycling through heavily forested areas reduces the accuracy of my Garmin V from a few feet to hundreds of feet. As it takes a few minutes for the receiver to "lock on" and recalculate its position, after pedaling through a forested area I can be a mile up the road before the display catches up. Even at bicycle speeds (15MPH) I have missed turns simply because of trees!
With the Tilt, moving on foot around tall buildings, Google Maps sometimes can't figure out where I am. In the car, I usually pull the sunroof shade back so the Tilt gets a clear shot at the sky.
One final point: If I have the Garmin running at home, shut it off, then restart it again when I am fifty miles from home, it takes maybe five minutes to find three in-view birds. There is a feature in the Gamin that allows me to move its cursor to about where I think I am and it, then it uses this information to find new birds. I use this feature frequently and it usually saves two or three minutes locking on to a new set of birds. That feature is not available with the Tilt and it can take a full five minutes for it to find three birds when I change location with the GPS receiver turned off.
I hope these comments are useful. A cell phone with GPS capabilities is understandably no match for a single-purpose GPS receiver and particularly so when the two devices sell for about the same price.

I doubt that it is Maps or myTracks that is off (although I had wondered about this as well) because when you run the Captivate side-by-side with an N1, the N1's lock and track are very fast (almost instantaneous) and flawless. Of course we all know the Captivate's lock and track issues. The N1's track would not be so perfect if it were an issue with the base map accuracy, when the app on both phones is the same and accesses the same data.
The issue can also be seen running GPS Status or GPS Test together too, the N1's lock is always better, although I see no appreciable difference in SNR values for each satellite. It is just like the Captivate simply will not lock, even when it sees the same satellites. That is why I am sure it is the driver issue and therefore fixable.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

[Q]gps signal and google maps

the only way i can connect is if im having free sky above me....
however if im in a mall whit 70% glass rooftop i cant get a gps signal going
is this a general problem or should i go try another device
also is there any way to make the screen not switch off wile ur in google maps(not navigation)

Gps needs direct line of sight to the sky. The mall side walls surely will block the necessary satellites on the mid to low horizon which is why you can't get a lock.

And glass is a solid substance, the same as any other roof, so it has an attenuating quality. The light has no idea that it is transparent to human eye.
And yes, it needs atleast three satellites to triangulate your position somewhat accurately, so there's more to it than just a line of sight upwards.

Am I the only one that thinks that must be a ginormous mall in order to need GPS while inside it?
As far as leaving the screen on while google maps is on the screen....the only thing that immediately comes to mind would be to go into your display settings and set a longer timeout.

even in a car with the phone sitting on the dash you can have issues getting a signal. The only sure way your going to get a super fast lock is outside with clear lines of sight to the sky.

knytphal said:
Am I the only one that thinks that must be a ginormous mall in order to need GPS while inside it?
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LOL.
But seriously, many apps use location services as a big part of the app (Yelp, Foursquare, etc), or as an added feature (any twitter app), and even Google's browser app uses location for Latitude and for location-based search results.
Or maybe he's a mall walker for exercise and needs his GPS enabled tracking app (RunMaster Pro is free this month on the Market instead of the usual $9.99 by the way) to track his progress.
You may not need GPS for those to work if there are enough mapped wifi spots to get a fix, but there's plenty of reasons to want your GPS to work inside a mall.

dude i dont need gps in the mall but compared whit my old htc touch hd the gps signal is alot harder to get; just wanted to know if its a issue whit my phone or its a general problem
Gps, wifi and network conections all are ****tyer on this phone then on my 2 year old htc touch hd....i expected a bit more from the latest google phone

funstuffalex said:
dude i dont need gps in the mall but compared whit my old htc touch hd the gps signal is alot harder to get; just wanted to know if its a issue whit my phone or its a general problem
Gps, wifi and network conections all are ****tyer on this phone then on my 2 year old htc touch hd....i expected a bit more from the latest google phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well in that case it might just be the problem with the nexus s. many people do seem to say it's GPS is weaker than other phones. and if you have other phones that can get a solid gps lock in the mall, but your nexus s cant, then it just must be weaker.

search for GPS status in the market. run the app. go to tools and manage a-gps.
reset the gps then download a-gps data. you should see an improvement in GPS reception. for me it is a BIG difference compared to before.

Best GPS?

Aside from the standard Google Maps, are there any good GPS systems to go along with this phone? Should I just rely on Google Maps?

Google Maps should come with the built in Navigation and it works very well IMHO.

unclespoon said:
Google Maps should come with the built in Navigation and it works very well IMHO.
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Pre-render? Can you have satellite view pre-rendered?

I spent the day driving around in a roughly 25 miles radius, to put the gps of the device to the test. I used google maps as it came pre-installed on the phone and this was my first full day with it.
Gps works as a gps, and functions even with wireless and cellular service disabled. (duh, but had to check it wasn't getting location via 4G)
Worked extremely well, and the radius to my location only raised above 10 meters a few times. Generally speaking I feel comfortable in saying it'll peg the phone to 10 meters through gps alone pretty consistently.
This was at speed in a vehicle, and on foot through parking lots and such. Even though it said to within 10 meters, I found that on foot it pegged the phone to about 3 feet. (1 meter) I could tell this by coming to and crossing roads marked on the map, and being zoomed in gauging how far that road actually was in front of me)
Using GPS only for location services, I lost reception whenever I entered a building, but sometimes it would find it again. Some of the buildings I walked into have enough electrical interference that cell phones don't get reception, so it was a good run of places to test it.
I got a handful of errands run in the process, so it was a pretty win situation.
For an out of the box solution, i'm impressed. It did much better then my year and a half old bottom of the line garmin nuvi 255w. Granted I bought that as the cheapest one I could find at the time, so it's no surprise this phone has a much more advanced gps functionality.
One of the reasons I purchased this device was to replace my GPS. When I bought the GPS unit I wasn't sure it would be worth the money at the time. Since then i've capitalized on having it by getting a job that entails a lot of running around to different locations, and a GPS unit is a necessity for the work. I've been looking to get a better GPS unit then a low end model for a while now.
I'm definitely on the lookout for other GPS capable map apps to use for navigation - what's better and why?

I'm excited to finally try Satellite imagery on my next trip. Most coverage areas certainly cover the traveled highways, so it should be very interesting.
Now if I can just find that pesky windshield mount!

After a few days of heavy usage, i'll say that using google maps in satellite view for gps navigation in a vehicle absolutely chews through battery power.
Not too bad with regular map view.
Also, more time spent on foot gets me to reasonably often within 4 meters on foot in the more populated areas.
I've been intentionally not using my car charger while doing all my running around, it's giving me a good guage of how much battery it eats. Car charger is a necessity if using satellite view.
Edit:
Is there any way to download the google map database for offline browsing? I know you can pre-cache map data using the google labs option in the maps app, but can I download something like my state, for instance, and access it offline?

Anyone know if it works in flight or what the maximum altitude might be?