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Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.
jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.
ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".
No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.
ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.
Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.
hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!
jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....
jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...
Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.
*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^
In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.
Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...
And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
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While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
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Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents
This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.
Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
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Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing
navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
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Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.
Sorry for asking but everyone is a newbeeeee sometime, right
I just found this site and I really want to upgrade my HTC TyTn II with WM 6.1.
I understand that on this site aloooooot of people are writing there own application and changing the org. RAM etc etc.
I wounder WHAT RAM I should install, the official Microsoft 6.1 or...
Where to looooooook ?
Pleazzzz have faith and once more, I'm a beginner
since you are new....1st thing to do before asking a question is use the forum search function and/or go to the wiki page for your device most of your questions if not all can be answered by doing those two things...
I'm going to give you the best piece of advice I can. Don't forget the name GSLEON3. I have a feeling you might need him in the near future.
i would take the last one that came out... and everytime a new one is available -> flash it.
other possibility: start with the wiki.
Well, you won't be changing ANY RAM for years bud. No offense, but that would take a lot of address work to alter the ram alotment.
You're best friend is the wiki, & the second post on the page called Start Here.
Now I don't expect to see another question for at least 5 days to a week, becuase if you are that new, you've got a bit of reading to do.
Start with the basics & learn about roms, radios, & basic tools that make flashing & cooking possible.
DO NOT PLAY WITH THINGS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. If you're not comfortable with a process or don't understand it, DON'T DO IT! Just like anything else, you're actions will have consequences, some are good some can be devastating. So start here: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
Then go to this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=369282
After reading all of the info there, then you can start asking questions for clarification without being royally flamed.
flushbeer said:
i would take the last one that came out... and everytime a new one is available -> flash it.
other possibility: start with the wiki.
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Ohh, & one last though, never trust a solution that is just flash it!
Red, read, read, understand...Then HardSPL before you even think of flashing anything.
sorry... forgot
<irony></irony>
I thought that was clear.
OK here we goooiiiiinnnng to reeeeead and reeeeeeaaad an.......
Godnight & over and out
I learned everything I needed to know from here. Everything is extensive. With a little dedication and a little geekism, you'll figure it out
My RAM doesn't fit!!!!
I'm so sorry that I didn't get to chime in earlier but I was changing the RAM on my Tilt and totally screwed up trying to fit my Laptop RAM into my phone. I couldn't find the Wiki on how to fix it. Can I tether it using Active Sync?
OK, heres the deal. I have a FUZE and want to flash it. As much useful information as there is on this forum, it is nearly impossible (as stated by many of the members here) to find anything in threads with 30, 50, 90 or even 300 pages. It just is not efficient. There is no good guide that has only constants (e.g., they all say you may need this version of SPL, radio, etc.). I would like some sort of UPDATED, concrete guide. I am willing to donate to whichever one of the developers handles this for me and I also think it would be hugely beneficial to the users of the forum. My hopes is that it becomes a locked thread so it cannot be polluted and it only stays a useful guide. The people on this forum are amazingly knowledgeable, probably the best on the net... There just needs to be organization and I'd really like to get that ball moving. Here is what I'd like
1) The fastest, cleanest, most stable ROM
2) The most efficient radio (I'm fine with my current signal strength, which radio does that equate to)
3) The LEAST maintenance, meaning internet settings for AT&T, proxies, settings, all the task manager junk that has to be done.
I would even take one of the cleaned up AT&T ROMS as long as it isn't as slow as a 500lb man in a 40yd dash.
I understand that creating ROMs is no easy task; However, being proficient in the business and technology world, I can bring a few things to the table. Inaccurate and disorganized information usually causes the collapse of many businesses and I feel that is the biggest downside of this forum. Just think about how hard it would be if your file cabinet of work was turned upside down and there was little to no organization? Someone from the outside trying to look for a file would have no clue where to start (e.g. looking at all of the thread names is quite overwhelming... [ROM] [ENG] [READY!|15 NOV] ROMeOS² v1.40.1 (19974.1.2.8|STABLE)). Noobs (including myself) have NO IDEA what any of that means until we start reading.
Therefore, if anyone is willing to help me get this started, I would gladly donate.
Thanks for listening, guys... I look forward to working with everyone.
Well, the first place to start is the Wiki specific to the Raphael. There you can find all the necessary info about the Raphael.
It seems you want to flash a ROM to your device. Right now there's only a handful available and you will have to try to see what best fits your needs. If you flash one, you don't like it, flash another.
If you read the Wiki you will see that you NEED to HardSPL before flashing a ROM. This is a must and I'm not sure where you're finding that it may be needed or not. Just HardSPL before you flash your ROM. And right now there's only 1 HardSPL, at least that I know of in this forum.
As for ROM naming/etc, go to the specific thread to find out more info. I understand the point about the overwheling messages that are here and many times there are just repeats of things that were answer before. However, everyone should take the time to read the sticky posts in the forum as they have very important information you need to know before you start messing with your device. I've been flashing ROMs for about a year now on my Tilt and recently move to the Fuze. A name as the one you referenced
"[ROM] [ENG] [READY!|15 NOV] ROMeOS² v1.40.1 (19974.1.2.8|STABLE", you should be able to figure most of it. It's a ROM, it's ENGlish, It's READY, release 15 Nov, and it's STABLE. The other info is specific to the person who releases it and you will find the info by reading the first 1-3 posts within the thread. What you wrote is the equivalent of reading something you don't have any idea about and you want to understand it all in the same sentence without doing some type of research. Not sure how that works.
The guys that releases these ROMs take their time to make sure all the necessary info for a specific ROM release is contain within the first 3 posts of a thread. It's the best place to gather all the info you need about a ROM.
Anyway, hope this helps you.
As has been said MANY times:
1) there is no BEST rom
2) there is no BEST radio
Each is measured subjectively based on your needs. Most of the information you need can be found in the threads related to HARDSPL, Radios, & the roms you're flashing.
Thread Closed.
PDACornerUltimate
By: abusalza
Phoenix
By: parleyp
HyperDragon
By: sakajati
AthineOS
By: b16b
eOS
By: -888-
RevROM
By: kareem9nba
-G- ROM's
By: -G-
SeaDragon
By: ansar.ath.gr
If I've missed any please let me know. These are NOT the only ROM's nor are they the "best" ROM's for the Kaiser just a list of the ROM's that seam to be the most popular.
Why did you post this?
Does it's based on number of post or viewers who's came to related ROM threads? Why don't we just do polling or something? But i guess member here rarely used only one ROM, it's keep changing
is this really necessary?
Travito said:
is this really necessary?
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i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!
siddesh_0110 said:
i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!
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Why did you post this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is this really necessary?
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What is the big deal? ......What , is he taking much needed space away from all the new 6.5 roms coming out ? Look around, things are kind of slow around here with links being taken down, chefs canceling their new 6.5 releases
This is not a "what is best thread," it merely consolidates all the chefs in one area,.........If it is tagged right, now all a noob has to do is come to rom development, type " popular roms " into search and he will come right to this page, to link and compare. No harm, could be helpful.
Don't forget ansar's roms, get the link in my signature.
Make this sticky!
Maybe add older but good ROMS like dutty's, Laurentis, etc!
I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.
Fingerlickin said:
I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.
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your not really being flamed its just that this is rom development forum and your thread has nothing to do with that,or with even aiding in rom dev. maybe you should put this in the kaiser-general forum?
The only problem is I don't think noobs are going to use the search function in the general forum to find a popular rom list. They are going to come here, to rom dev. Yes they could just go up and down the forum threads looking at post totals for different roms, but we all know clueles noobs.
I would love for them to be able to input "popular roms " into the search function and have them be directed to a list. Or as we get the inevitalbe " what is the best rom " question, which gets asked here, more than in the Kaiser general forum " here is the list of popular roms ", " follow the links and test and compare for yourself "
Could be helpful.
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.
Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.
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agreed it is far more extensive
Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
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And that is why the thread is not called " every rom ever written for the Kaiser " because that is in the wiki. Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
They are not looking or willing to to filter through yesterdays news just to get the newest stuff. Don't get me wrong, Leo, Dutty, NATF, and all are legends and always will be, but they have moved on. In some cases the chefs are not even supporting their old threads that are still listed in the wiki.
We hear enough complaints as it is about all the old info a noob has to go through to get the " new stuff ".
This is kind of a thanks and props to the guys that have stayed behind and still support us, and a thanks to the ( Josh, KaiserII101, ngy ) new chefs stepping up, by moving them to the top of the " every rom available for the Kaiser" list .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492757
Go here follow the links to the latest and the greatest and decide for yourself. Easy Answer ?
Not meaning to be a jerk with so many posts, I'm just sayin............
I've got to admit that this thread helped me find a good naked ROM, namely AthineOS. I probably would have found it in the end but who knows how long that would have taken?
denco7 said:
Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
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and that stuff 9 times out of 10 is on the 1st or 2nd page of the kaiser forum, hence threads like these AREN'T needed.
edit: not to mention that this is the "Kaiser Rom Development forum" not a come and get it/heres your menu forum, these "kids" need to be searching/learning before they EVER think about flashing a rom. or all you get is theses spoon fed "kids" not reading/searching, bricking their phones more than they do now!!!
<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>
Exactly all the most up to date things will be within first 2 pages and even if not then surely it's worth putting in the effort to find a ROM that you want and like, by that i mean to do a bit of research read some of the reviews flash it and then probably go somewhere else and flash untill you find the ROM that suits your needs and wishes, blah blah too many threadz with Help\Fastest ROM\Best ROM or just posted in the bloody wrong section.
Blah Blah Blah..............
msd24200 where's that cat when you need him?
DamionFury: I read it all and you have some valib point but time consuming is all part of it your flashing a UK £200ish phone............. Take some time, do some learning..... You don't need to use the search for Kaiser ROMs go through the pages of ROM Development and you can just flip & flip & flip till you find what you want???
I enjoy using my phone when it has a ROM that I like; I don't enjoy spending hours finding that ROM. I have far too many things I'd rather be doing. I spend the time finding the ROM because I believe that it's worth it, but anything that reduces the expenditure is great in my book.
DamionFury said:
<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>
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and again there is no point to be missing the fact is this is a rom development thread not a come and get it and here's the menu thread. THIS HAS BEEN GONE OVER AND OVER AND OVER so many times. the roms that are "hot" will always be on the first couple of pages of the forum because so many use them they don't have time to drop back to page 3. you guys that want to spoon feed should start your own website linking back to the rom threads on here then. and as far as the wiki goes it's all there and ANYONE can update the wiki at anytime.