Related
ActiveSync has decided that my device must be called WM_Administa1,2,3,4 etc. I've deleted the Partners keys in the registry on my PC and device, but it still remembers things. Anyone know how to make it completely forget and let me name my own device?
Thanks
at45 said:
ActiveSync has decided that my device must be called WM_Administa1,2,3,4 etc. I've deleted the Partners keys in the registry on my PC and device, but it still remembers things. Anyone know how to make it completely forget and let me name my own device?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not the answer you want. But honestly? Active sync is so retarded and has always been more of a pain than a gain.
And it's probably gone in WM 7... So, why not take this opportunity to "get in sync" with the better way this stuff is done now:
One such way is to use Google Sync -- and move all your contacts to a gmail account, which then has a google calendar associated with it. Once it is there, in the google cloud, then it can sync with your phone without active sync ever entering the picture again. Then you can just use the cable as a USB connection only.
It's been a while since i made this transition, but i am so less bothered by all the anxiety caused by active sync when going rom to rom etc.
STEP 1: getting outlook data to google - to then enable google sync, and contact sync.. i can't recall now if google had a tool for this, re exporting out of outlook for the one time to get gmail/cal in sync.
but there is an app that does it, called OGGsync -- and it works perfectly. only prob is it is not free, and cost $30 ... others may know of some other way to do this, if it appeals to you at all...
in the meantime, sorry for your problems. I ran into that, as we all have, many times. and frankly i never knew HOW to fix it... i thonk it always ended up being trial and error wasting hours ... and.. certainly your time is way more valuable per hour than $30 ... that was my view in the end.
good luck
Erm, no. Sending all my data to a 3rd party via the internet only to have them scan and index it before returning it to a machine one foot away from the first is not progress. There's nothing good about that model at all, and it's offtopic.
at45 said:
Erm, no. Sending all my data to a 3rd party via the internet only to have them scan and index it before returning it to a machine one foot away from the first is not progress. There's nothing good about that model at all, and it's offtopic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah well screw you for a ****ty attitude. You don't need to be an asshole. You can just say "that's not what I want". Most people on this site do not behave as you do, thankfully. But their numbers are growing and I would like to STAMP IT OUT. This site wasn't created for assholiness. have a nice day!
Ha. I didn't read that after the first few words. No need to. The 'net's full of people like you, which unfortunately means that the world is, and we've all met your local counterparts.
Anyway if you'd kindly get off my thread and be a prick in reality where less people have to put up with you I'm sure many users would be appreciative.
Back ONTOPIC it turns out the solution was to simply erase the Partners keys in the registries and re-install ActiveSync. Probably not ideal but only takes a minute to do and it works fine.
The keys are something like [HKLM\software\microsoft\windows ce services\partners]
at45 said:
Ha. I didn't read that after the first few words. No need to. The 'net's full of people like you, which unfortunately means that the world is, and we've all met your local counterparts.
Anyway if you'd kindly get off my thread and be a prick in reality where less people have to put up with you I'm sure many users would be appreciative.
Back ONTOPIC it turns out the solution was to simply erase the Partners keys in the registries and re-install ActiveSync. Probably not ideal but only takes a minute to do and it works fine.
The keys are something like [HKLM\software\microsoft\windows ce services\partners]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh coool!! thanks for the info!!i never thought if it that way..b.t.w. great attitude and you are smart !! we need that attitude in the whitehouse!! ,that was a cool burn
You two should joust.
just delet ur sycned phone from settings
I've put off getting a smartphone as long as possible, but did enough research that I think the Triumph on Virgin's $35 plan with Google voice is a smart way to go. I still have some questions about this new OS, programs, and environment, and really like the smart people on this forum, and hope you won't mind a few questions.
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs]. Any advice most welcome.
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With respect to these questions, I'm not an expert, but I'll provide a list of programs I use.
For WiFi signal strength, I'd recommend Wifi Analyzer from the Market. For 3G strength, I'd recommend Cellumap. For GPS Strength, GPS Status + Toolbox or GPS Test.
The manual for the phone can be found on either the VMUSA or Motorola web site. It will explain some of the icons. Although when using the phone, I often see stuff not explained in the manual.
For examining the phone's processes, I recommend SystemPanel from the Market (paid for version has history), and/or Android Status.
There are people that tell you NOT to kill anything on the Android OS manually. I use 1Tap Cleaner and Advanced Task Killer from the market if I see the phone behaving a bit sluggish. Android OS loads stuff in memory readying it for future use. How it does so (intelligently) I don't know. I see stuff being partially loaded I never use. I have never had a problem using either program.
YMMV
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
dcnblues said:
-What’s the best VOIP app for working with Google Voice? I've come across GrooVe IP, but would like reassurance whether it's the best option. I'd like to make calls over wifi, but I'd also like to know whether Virgin Mobile's 3g coverage is fast enough for voip (generally...). I wouldn't want to do this routinely as I'd be afraid they'd throttle me. But I would like someone who knows to share their opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)
dcnblues said:
-How do I find out my wifi signal strength? 3G strength? GPS strength? Or even just where I can learn what the icons on the top bar stand for, and what their range is? There must be a good app for this, and I'd love a recommendation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i will back the suggestion of wifi analyzer, it will map out locations of wifi/cellular tower, it gave me beef on another phone that ran @ 600mhz but this one is 1000mhz.
dcnblues said:
-If I wanted the option, how (specifically) would I switch from making a voip/data plan outgoing call to the regular phone cell plan? Would Android be smart enough to do this automatically without a wifi signal? Or would I need to change a setting in Google Voice? Any thoughts most appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With grooveip and google voice it will ask you on all outbound calls after you press dial: Would you like to make this call with.... A) non-Google Voice B) Google Voice (same story w/ sending an sms except it will ask when you create the sms because google voice has it's own sms application, keep in mind w/ gvoice you can forward calls to your google chat account (and that's what makes grooveip ring instead of forwarding the call to your cellular number[i think])
dcnblues said:
-How do I find what apps are running (in background?)? Percentage of system resources, and how to kill them? I’m guessing there are apps for that. Does Android kill a process when you return to home screen? What are some of the general rules?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are tons of application managers and task killers, I recommend to ignore all of them.... Someone brought a Samsung Prevail(Boost mobile Galaxy) into work the other day(Radioshack) - Anytime they killed tasks their touchscreen went out till reboot.... Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen.... What I mean by that is that if you're in the browser and you hit home then you go back to the browser, you're on the same page still... but likely not to have any of your text still there if you were in an input field.... (This is probably an inaccurate example due to programmers being able to add a save activity state [this is something that when you for example hit back or hold the home button down to switch applications will store your current information, so when you're editing the text field it will save that data, THEN kill the activity/suspend it so that when you return it is still there, but the process is not draining the battery down at the moment.])
One of androids key attributes is the quick application switching via holding down the home button but some applications like pandora will run 'ongoing' so that you can multitask, while others will suspend so that you can save battery.... Kind of as a rule of thumb, unless it is monitoring or actively outputting it will be suspended.... so apps like pandora and wifi tethering continue to function when you switch applications because tehy'er ongoing whereas a note editor application would suspend itself untill it's brought back to focus because how are you going to type without it forefront?
dcnblues said:
-I have a mac. I’m guessing most of the programs that let you manage files, root the phone, install Cyanogen mods, etc, are PC based. I found Android File Transfer, but am not clear on it's limits. Are there better options? What will the AFT program be good for? [Emulating PC’s is a pain I would rather avoid, but I have been thinking of running virtual box to donate some processing time to the Large Hadron Collider, so I might be able to run some of these PC programs].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First off nice LHC Mac joke I take it we're running the server edition cause hey, more is never enough.
I honestly can't tell you much from the mac POV other than that it would hopefully work the same as the linux instructions but i kind of expect version/dependency differences... to be fair this triumph is rootable by application ran on the phone (Which you can GMail to yourself and download as attatchment, bluetooth, wifi shared folder, usb mounting, or download directly to the phone..) The custom recovery is installed via drag and drop on USB Removable Disc so it's not nearly as bad as some of the other phones would be,
dcnblues said:
-Any skins or options to turn the google apps into light text on dark background? (I'm aware of and have used the option in Gmail). I hate black text on white background. I'm kooky that way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Feel free to, they exist, I would however suggest against them... I walk to work a lot and it's a pain in the ass to read those emails when you have the sun on the screen; granted everything is harder this was damn near impossible... Nonetheless check for the black apps listed in xda/android/themes and apps... I'll link soon. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1206774
dcnblues said:
This Android phone is good looking, the plan costs much less than a thousand a year (which I refuse to pay), and I LOVE the Google voice options to turn your text and calls into computer files which you can archive as you wish. The Google voice activation / text / search is far superior to iAnything, voip/wifi is the balls, and I think a lot people who've been holding off from getting a smartphone will jump on this combo, and this thread may help them. Many thanks...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to point out that with the GVoice extension/app for google chrome
you can continue your SMS conversations that way... I recieved one of the CR48s and this has been AWESOME for me.
As far as voip services, I have found using 3g too slow. That said I do recommend sipdroid. It will setup a pbx account for you using your google voice number. Upon connecting to wifi, sipdroid will start running allowing you to make and receive calls.
Sent from my MOTWX435KT using XDA App
Thanks guys for the very useful help. I'm kind of burned out on all the research, and kind of bummed that this red-hot, billion dollar business seems to be run by such morons. SO many unnecessary complications to offering consumers simple, workable products and services.
This has been a great help.
bigvandal said:
GrooveIP works great over 3g...I dunno how much we will be able to use it once they start capping data..bastards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm actually kind of grateful to Virgin Mobile for the $35 dollar plan. I can communicate via voice to text, for a fair price, so until I have a real problem, I'm not going to call them bastards. Until I have a problem, of course...
I do hate the BS in advertising 'unlimited' plans, but having them smirking in their headquarters as they say to themselves 'but we didn't say at what rate...'
On the other hand, people downloading movies over cell frequencies aren't exactly providing solutions to the problem either...
rubbachicken said:
GrooVe IP is actually the only thing i've bothered to use because it worked well enough, I havn't put it to test over 3g... In the future, you can root the phone and update it to sprint PRL (Their towers instead of VMU) - People have reported up to like 6-900kbps doing this... I would suggest to not factor this last suggestion in yet as you won't be extremely comfortable with your first smart phone being messed with (But a possibility nonetheless)...Android is supposed to self manage tasks and processes... realistically you just have to make sure not to leave your bluetooth wifi and gps on all the time... Also taking the screen brightness down a fuzz from max will help batt life tremendously... Android will suspend a process and kill an activity when you return to homescreen....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, thanks very much. For this and all the information. Colossally useful.
Groove IP is actually having a problem today due to some change in the Google servers. Hope it's resolved soon as I'd like to get this running.
Quick confirm: Triumph is LCD and not AMOLED, Correct?
Hi, I hope I'm posting in the right forum here!
Several people have said that the following is possible, but nobody knows how to actually do it!
I want to make tasker switch my default browser whenever I have mobile data enabled. The task would be pretty similar to the "switch input method" function, but I can't figure out how to do this.
Is it possible?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Bump
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
May I bump this?
I'm searching everywhere for a hint of whether my task is possible:
I have a plan that consists of 200 minutes, and unlimited calling to my 'Fav 10'.. I also have a data cap of 1Gig. I would like for Tasker to keep track of my minutes used (rounding up as my carrier does not bill by the second), and once it reaches a defined count (200), it'd switch my default phone dialer over to Skype for ONLY the phone numbers that are not part of my Favourite Ten (or Dell Voice, however Google Voice is not available in Canada at the moment).
Skype rates are 3cents/minute, compared to 45cents for every extra minute on my plan; it is possible to $3+tac for call forwarding, but it doesn't seem to let me exclude callers from the feature. Also, I'm trying to live within certain budgets, as I am a student.
As well, I would like to be presented with an option box, to use either my native phone dialer or Skype, if I am approaching my 1gb cap (even a MB over will cost me a large chunk of money).
So... I'm searching and continuously searching... but I ask for anyone's help who may have.
Thanks a lot everyone..
Ryan
I think it's doable, at least some of it, but you would need someone who knows a lot about the logic syntaxes in Tasker and their limitations, which I unfortunately don't.
Sent from horseback.
Thanks for the insight.
After only having Tasker for a few days, just by what I wrote above I can definitely see it as maybe possible.
But, as like you, I don't know enough of this to even begin, I'm afraid.
I'll keep an eye on this thread and bump it every so often until I give up, or until I'm told to stop
adytum said:
Hi, I hope I'm posting in the right forum here!
Several people have said that the following is possible, but nobody knows how to actually do it!
...
Is it possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an exact "set default application", but you can try this. Make the task with shortcut (and call it myBrowser). This task will run a different apps depending on the conditions (WiFi, Mobile Data, etc.).
memberfive said:
This is not an exact "set default application", but you can try this. Make the task with shortcut (and call it myBrowser). This task will run a different apps depending on the conditions (WiFi, Mobile Data, etc.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but it's over a year since I posted that, and actually started to do the exact thing you mentioned shortly thereafter myself
Sent from horseback.
Open a web page in a non-default browser / changing the default application
adytum said:
Hi, I hope I'm posting in the right forum here!
Several people have said that the following is possible, but nobody knows how to actually do it!
I want to make tasker switch my default browser whenever I have mobile data enabled. The task would be pretty similar to the "switch input method" function, but I can't figure out how to do this.
Is it possible?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prerequisites:
1. Root access
2. Tasker installed
It depends on the Action/Mime Type that you want to change but for opening an url in a non-default browser this works - I tested it.
Create new task: Misc>Send Intent
Action: android.intent.action.VIEW
Cat: None
Mime blank
Data: "your url"
Extra blank
Package: com.android.browser or com.webbrowserminiapp or "the package of whatever browser you want to use"
Class blank
Target: Activity
The rest is peace of cake.
Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.
Hi,
I've discovered the description of "Signal Private Messenger" app, but I don't know what thinking about it.
Its description seem's to indicate that you can communicate voice and text securely end to end with your smartphone, and that it's open source.
What is really securely ? I don't know and "I want to know"
Thanks in advance for your answers.
Hi, The short answer is Yes. Signal is by Open Whisper Systems & runs on iOS and Android. You can use it as a regular SMS/MMS app; as well as encrypted SMS/MMS/phone calls. To activate the encryption you need to exchange keys with the person you want to message.
Hope this helps!
equi_design said:
Hi, The short answer is Yes. Signal is by Open Whisper Systems & runs on iOS and Android. You can use it as a regular SMS/MMS app; as well as encrypted SMS/MMS/phone calls. To activate the encryption you need to exchange keys with the person you want to message.
Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thanks for your answer.
Your answer is a good summary of the app's features.
But what are you thinking about the word "securely" ?
Is it a dream or a reality ?
The app's editor highlights testimonies from known people who use it. Is it sufficient to trust this app ?
Has someone in this forum examined the code of this app ?
Nothing is completely secure.
In my opinion, & from my use, Signal is more secure than a normal messengering app - but less secure than a talk in real life.
If you are interested in security, please check out this XDA subforum; http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/security
And read up here: www.eff.org
Hm, nice to see a discussion going on. Have just heard Snowden recommend the app so I thought I'd check it out. BUT, there is a but ... I intentionally blocked the app from any internet usage whatsoever with AFWall+ donate. I've set up my AFW to show a toast whenever it blocks an app trying to use the internet so that I know which apps try to use the net in the background without my permission or intention. To my surprise my AFW blocks Signal all the time when I use Signal. And I mean ALL the time. How does this make sense? Why would a privacy app try to connect to the internet constantly? I've not got WiFi calling and I've not even enabled it in Signal's settings. Am I missing something here or is there sth wrong with the app? It's making me feel that it is constantly trying to leak data and that's why it attempts to use the internet. Good thing I have a robust thing on board such as AFWall... best firewall out there.
jonathansmith said:
Hm, nice to see a discussion going on. Have just heard Snowden recommend the app so I thought I'd check it out. BUT, there is a but ... I intentionally blocked the app from any internet usage whatsoever with AFWall+ donate. I've set up my AFW to show a toast whenever it blocks an app trying to use the internet so that I know which apps try to use the net in the background without my permission or intention. To my surprise my AFW blocks Signal all the time when I use Signal. And I mean ALL the time. How does this make sense? Why would a privacy app try to connect to the internet constantly? I've not got WiFi calling and I've not even enabled it in Signal's settings. Am I missing something here or is there sth wrong with the app? It's making me feel that it is constantly trying to leak data and that's why it attempts to use the internet. Good thing I have a robust thing on board such as AFWall... best firewall out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's encrypted, end to end. It's not leaking anything. The code is opensource, you can go and review the code and build it yourself.
If you're blocking it from accessing the internet, then it's going to try again, probably because it can see that there is a network connection live.
@jonathansmith
Thanks for your detailed feedback.
It will be nice if someone in this forum could analyze the code of this open source app.
As for me, I am unfortunately not competent.
Were you able to identify with AFW the site the app was trying to connect ?
dtective said:
It's encrypted, end to end. It's not leaking anything. The code is opensource, you can go and review the code and build it yourself. If you're blocking it from accessing the internet, then it's going to try again, probably because it can see that there is a network connection live.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, that's exactly what I don't get. Why would it attempt to establish a connection. Ofc I'm blocking it. I'm blocking tons of others apps as well, but unlike Signal (and a few other suspicious apps) the other apps do not try to establish a connection.
As I said, when you block an app from accessing the net with AFWall you can tell AFWall to give you a toast showing you when every signle time when AFWall blocks a certain app trying to access the net. So, with 99% of my AFWall-blocked apps I don't get this toast, meaning that those apps don't even attempt to access the net (but better stay safe and have em blocked.) With some tricky apps though, AFwall shows that toast msg indicating that it successfully blocks a certain app from accessing the net. That's what I don't get - why would Signal be set up in a way that it would attempt to access the net. Prolly WiFi calling or sth but I'd rather use it for now only as a default SMS client.
Yes, you are right. Signal can see that there is a network connection live and that's why it constantly tries to connect to it. Just wish Signal would get it once and for all that it is blocked for good and stop trying to access the net.
If anyone knows which Services, Broadcast Receivers, or Activities from Signal should be disabled (using MyAndroidTools for example) please do share which ones they are so I can disable them and thus prevent Signal from constantly trying to establish a connection. The toast msg from AFW does become annoying when it is every second second
---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------
iwanttoknow said:
Were you able to identify with AFW the site the app was trying to connect ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe gotta look into the log of AFW. The toast msg only shows the ip address which Signal ties to connect but AFwall prevents it form doing. But that's not the prob for me. Doesn't matter too much what it tries to access cos I know AFWall is good enough at preventing that. Just want to stop Signal from trying to access whatever it is trying to access! Will let you know if I figure it out!
---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------
equi_design said:
Nothing is completely secure.
And read up here: www.eff.org
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. Nothing is, indeed! And thanks for reminding me about eff ... here's a good one - https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere @iwanttoknow check it out!
And here's a bit of a follow-up. Managed to catch the toast. Not sure if it is always the same ip that AFW blocks, but will try to pay attention. A reverse search reveals that the geo location of the ip is some place in Washington, US.
https://imgur.com/a/5fhIf
As I understood it
(And I could be wrong I left signal years ago when it was text secure)
Signal does NOT use sms to send messages
That functionality of the app was dropped a while back
It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages
And it uses its own message server to host your messages.
It seems like decent software
I abandoned it because it uses your personal phone number as your identifier..
And it will not work with out a phone number..
Which for me is just crazy as every government in the world and most phone companies are selling /tracking your "meta" data based on your smart phone and it's phone number.
Think of it as any other encrypted internet message system
But it uses your phone number as an identifier...
Everyone gets my pubic email address now for communication.
Cops, government, hospital, work, stores,etc
It's the 21st century. Why use a phone number for anything anymore?
nutpants said:
As I understood it
(And I could be wrong I left signal years ago when it was text secure)
Signal does NOT use sms to send messages
That functionality of the app was dropped a while back
It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages
And it uses its own message server to host your messages.
It seems like decent software
I abandoned it because it uses your personal phone number as your identifier..
And it will not work with out a phone number..
Which for me is just crazy as every government in the world and most phone companies are selling /tracking your "meta" data based on your smart phone and it's phone number.
Think of it as any other encrypted internet message system
But it uses your phone number as an identifier...
Everyone gets my pubic email address now for communication.
Cops, government, hospital, work, stores,etc
It's the 21st century. Why use a phone number for anything anymore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to go back in time when the app was called Textsecure and it provided end to end encryption for SMS. The app was available on F-Droid until someone discovered that plain text sms were saved unencrypted on device. After that, the dev temporarily closed the source and also demanded that the app be removed from F-Droid, because in his view distribution on F-droid was "insecure." Well, that hole was fixed and the following versions worked pretty well. About the same, time, the dev started to be bothered by TSA every time he travelled by air. Then, within a few subsequent releases, google binaries and internet permission were included. Then, the app started to crash if internet service was restricted. In addition, you could only get the app from Googleplay, which means, you must have Gapps and Google Services Framework, which has total control over the phone and regularly "phones" home (obviously not your home). GSF can get your outgoing text before encryption and incoming text after.. Despite all of the above, one could still compile the app and use it without GSF. Then suddenly, the dev announced that he would no longer support encrypted SMS. About that time, he started receiving literally millions of $ from a US government's backed foundation. In addition, he was offered a lucrative contract to do encryption for What's UP, which later became Facebook. Quite a change after being harassed in airports So, encrypted sms were dropped and the app turned into an internet messenger. You must register with your phone number; your data goes through Google servers and Whisper System's servers. And by the way, neither the Signal servers nor Redphone servers are open source. You can't use the app unless you have Gapps and GSF and if you use the app, you are known to Whisper Systems, Google and all 3-letter agencies...
This is not the first time I am posting on Textsecure/Signal, just do a search on XDA and F-Droid forums and you will find more info with links. I would stay away from anything coming out of Whisper Systems. Use Silence, which is a fork of Textsecure with encrypted SMS. For over-the-internet services, use Conversations.
And by the way, never use an app where everything: encryption, encryption method, registration, servers are in the hands of one entity, which won't allow you to use other servers...
nutpants said:
As I understood it ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right but for normal unencrypted messages Signal uses simple SMS. Have tried it and without any WiFi or data it simply sends a msg as an SMS. So far so good but u might have a point. I'm yet to test with someone who also has the app installed and see how encrypted msgs are transferred. I'd imagine it NOT to be over the internet, but then again you might have a point? Why? Because as I said I've blocked Signal with AFWall and I get a toast showing that Signal CONSTANTLY tries to connect to the internet when there is currently a live connection to the internet, be it Data or Wifi. So yeah, you might be right, but I need to test it out. In the meantime someone who has already done this would do us a favour by telling us how it works.
Using my personal phone number as identifier does not sound cool indeed. If you are right about this: 'It uses internet only to transmit encrypted messages. And it uses its own message server to host your message' then I guess I'm ok with using the net for transmitting encr. msg since they are encrypted with E2EE. As to where the msgs are hosted. I guess I'm better off having them stored at Signal's server than at Verizon's cos from Verizon they end up DIRECTLY to the government. I guess with nuff persuasion and money though they'd also end up there from Signal. It's the way of the world, isn't it? Also, as I mentioned in my last post, the IP which Signal constantly tries to connect to is in Washington. That's already fishy enough .... very fishy!
optimumpro said:
Use Silence, which is a fork of Textsecure with encrypted SMS. For over-the-internet services, use Conversations.
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How about apps like 'Wire' and 'Wickr - Top Secret Messenger'? Are they any good? Will give Silence and Conversations a try! 10x for bringing them up.
unknown404 said:
How about apps like 'Wire' and 'Wickr - Top Secret Messenger'? Are they any good? Will give Silence and Conversations a try! 10x for bringing them up.
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Wickr is not open source. So, for me it is out of the question. Wire sounds good, although they say they can terminate your account at any time. Also, they say the company is based in Switzerland, but the location for dispute resolution is San Francisco. They also say they can require you to download/upgrade the app, which means that if you want to stay on older version, they won't let you...
Again, I am against models where everything is concentrated in the same hands...
optimumpro said:
Wickr is not open source. So, for me it is out of the question. Wire sounds good, although they say they can terminate your account at any time. Also, they say the company is based in Switzerland, but the location for dispute resolution is San Francisco. They also say they can require you to download/upgrade the app, which means that if you want to stay on older version, they won't let you...
Again, I am against models where everything is concentrated in the same hands...
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I guess I'm ok with Wickr's being closed source (but then again what do I know ... the discussion about open vs closed source goes both ways so more opinions are welcome). Just don't get why I made an account there and now trying to log back in I'm told the credential are wrong. Weird!
Hi,
In my first post, I was asking your opinions about "Signal Private Messenger" app.
Thanks all for your answers.
In your answers, I have discovered the names of Silence and Conversations apps.
Which level of confidence for them and why ?
iwanttoknow said:
Hi,
In my first post, I was asking your opinions about "Signal Private Messenger" app.
Thanks all for your answers.
In your answers, I have discovered the names of Silence and Conversations apps.
Which level of confidence for them and why ?
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Click to collapse
I'll be happy to hear more opinions as well but as optimumpro said, Silence really seems solid and offers E2EE, which is what I need. Have tested it with other users and seems good so far. Can't say anything about Conversations cos I've not used it yet. I read good stuff about Wickr as well, but yeah ... closed source deters many.
unknown404 said:
I'll be happy to hear more opinions as well but as optimumpro said, Silence really seems solid and offers E2EE, which is what I need. Have tested it with other users and seems good so far. Can't say anything about Conversations cos I've not used it yet. I read good stuff about Wickr as well, but yeah ... closed source deters many.
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Both Conversations and Silence are open source, unlike Signal, which contains prebuilt binaries and jar files. Also, neither Conversations nor Silence forces you to register or use their servers, which Signal does.
optimumpro said:
Both Conversations and Silence are open source, unlike Signal, which contains prebuilt binaries and jar files. Also, neither Conversations nor Silence forces you to register or use their servers, which Signal does.
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That I do second and that I do like!
Hi,
After reading some articles, I discovered that it was "easy" to assure End-to-end encryption (E2EE) for our communications. I share my understanding here, knowing that it's well known by experts in the domain. So thank you for being kind to me.
In fact, there is a difficulty for communicating parties who wanted to communicate without anyone spying their voice or written messages. They have to use cryptographic protocols relying on a shared secret. But how to share a secret on unsecure communication channels ?
It's "easy", due to the Diffie-Hellman cryptographic protocol which permits to do that. There are a lot of explanations about it on the Net. But it could be defeated by the man-in-the-middle attack (MITM). To counter this attack, you have "simply" to sign the shared secret with asymetric keys (with your secret key to sign the shared secret, and with your public key permitting to the other part verify it). If you are interested, see more explanations on the Net about asymetric cryptographic protocols.
I sincerely hope that I didn't say too much nonsense.
Silence app is based on Diffie-Hellman protocol, like other apps in the domain.
In summary, after reading your answers to my initial post :
- Silence app permits to exchange SMS/MMS, using E2EE.
- Conversations app is an instant messaging (IM) client for Android, using E2EE.
Signal Private Menssenger is an E2EE IM and voice calling app.
I have noted what has been written about Signal Private Menssenger in this thread, so is there a "less intrusive" E2EE voice calling app, in the same way as Silence ?
Thanks for your participation.