Database Info

Cleaning up the Wizard Forum

Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.

jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).

I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.

And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...

nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...

all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.

ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.

mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at

Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.

ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3

jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.

I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.

Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.

hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!

jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....

jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...

Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.

Forum Organization Idea

First and formost, thanks to all the chefs out there, i've crossed over from a crackberry and I'm so glad I did thanks to this forum.
I have one suggestion: As I love to flash new ROMs allllll the time (I'm sure most here are as addicted as I am), I'm having some trouble keeping track of what ROMS are new and which are older but still being discussed.
Please give all your incites on the idea of a STICKY thread made just for for ROM uploading. Then there can be different threads for the discussion of each ROM (issues, fixes, etc...)
This would make it alot easier for everyone to see whats new and compare ROMs.
Please let me know what ou think.
If enough people think it's a good idea then maybe we can make it happen?!
Please vote in the poll above
Thanks again.

I believe we wanted to clear out a lot of the stickies so the page don't get filled up with a whole bunch of stickies. There is a rom page with links, but I don't believe it is being mantained.

Nope, xda make it mandatory that cooks put their meals on the table. By that I mean put the links to their thread in the ROM list thread.

MorKraiser said:
First and formost, thanks to all the chefs out there, i've crossed over from a crackberry and I'm so glad I did thanks to this forum.
I have one suggestion: As I love to flash new ROMs allllll the time (I'm sure most here are as addicted as I am), I'm having some trouble keeping track of what ROMS are new and which are older but still being discussed.
Please give all your incites on the idea of a STICKY thread made just for for ROM uploading. Then there can be different threads for the discussion of each ROM (issues, fixes, etc...)
This would make it alot easier for everyone to see whats new and compare ROMs.
Please let me know what ou think.
If enough people think it's a good idea then maybe we can make it happen?!
Please vote in the poll above
Thanks again.
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Yea, it's in the sticky you missed at the top of this page, where you want this new sticky added.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343198
Where it says:
Sticky: All Significant Kaiser Upgrading Links. Start Here!
Just click that link, then look for:
List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links

Pointless and repititive threads make finding ROM releases thread difficult. (period)

IMHO new roms should have two threads each: one for the rom and for the chef or an assistant to post updated specific instructions and bug-fixes and another one for the 200 pages of chatter.

i suggest to do a board read only who only developers can post his rom with every update.
with vbb u can do everything u want. Simply create a group and give permissions to post that board.
for adding to that group they must demostrate they are developing a rom...
for assistence another board where to talk about custom roms.

I believe it's a good idea to have a one point to start flashing and this could be the Wiki section of each device where noobies can read the instructions before starting flashing their devices ... I think this will also reduce many repeated mistakes and questions.
To make it even more clear, maybe our mods should impose a unified form for this section like to include:
Chef name
Cook version
OS version
Build number
Radio version (if included)
Addressed device (ATT, HTC, ...)
Brief about the contents
Bugs/known issues
Download link(s)
a link to the discussion thread

Can we use subforums???
kaiser>
roms>
problems
???

It's more important to me to be able to tell which threads are new and which threads are just updated...
This way we will be able to choose to read our favorite (excisting) threads first and after that look for new started threads so we know about new problems/ideas/ROMs (!!)...
Or the other way around ofcourse...

This forum is what we as a community make of it. Everything can't be heaped upon the back of the Moderators. There are only like 30 or so of us to thousands of registered members.
Members need to step up and help get & keep things organized. Use the Wiki, learn how to and & edit pages there.
When you see crap threads, report them to the Mods instead of inciting a flame-war on a noob.
The bottom line if you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem, inaction is just as harmful as negative action.

I actually have a reformat of the Custom ROM wiki page floating around here on my work computer. It's sorted first by OS (6.0 or 6.1) then by Chef, then by date (newest first). I need to see if I can put my hands on it to actually place it up on the wiki. Though it'll require that people actually take the time to add the new ROMs as they come out. Remember, the forum is more than one person...as is the wiki.
I'll try to get to that this afternoon unless someone has a massive issue with it...

New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.

jarek91 said:
New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.
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That's some great work jarek91!!! That's the spirit! As stated in other threads, I only care for those who contribute. Whining n00bs should be flamed on first post

jarek91 said:
New Wiki page is up for Cooked ROMs here. Still needs some work but that should be a good start for better organization and maintainability.
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awesome bro! thanks for that!
Cheers

Popular ROM Threads

PDACornerUltimate
By: abusalza
Phoenix
By: parleyp
HyperDragon
By: sakajati
AthineOS
By: b16b
eOS
By: -888-
RevROM
By: kareem9nba
-G- ROM's
By: -G-
SeaDragon
By: ansar.ath.gr

If I've missed any please let me know. These are NOT the only ROM's nor are they the "best" ROM's for the Kaiser just a list of the ROM's that seam to be the most popular.

Why did you post this?

Does it's based on number of post or viewers who's came to related ROM threads? Why don't we just do polling or something? But i guess member here rarely used only one ROM, it's keep changing

is this really necessary?

Travito said:
is this really necessary?
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i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!

siddesh_0110 said:
i feel it is just like adding a new thread with no benefits n discussions...
I think it is an against rule.. so MOD to take the call on this!
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Why did you post this?
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is this really necessary?
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What is the big deal? ......What , is he taking much needed space away from all the new 6.5 roms coming out ? Look around, things are kind of slow around here with links being taken down, chefs canceling their new 6.5 releases
This is not a "what is best thread," it merely consolidates all the chefs in one area,.........If it is tagged right, now all a noob has to do is come to rom development, type " popular roms " into search and he will come right to this page, to link and compare. No harm, could be helpful.
Don't forget ansar's roms, get the link in my signature.

Make this sticky!
Maybe add older but good ROMS like dutty's, Laurentis, etc!

I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.

Fingerlickin said:
I didn't expect to be flamed for making a post that would help me. If it helps me then I'm sure it would help others here on the forums.
I'm not claiming these are the best ROM's, What I did was sort the forum by number of posts and then started listing, I skipped over the threads that was old but apparently some of those ROM's are still used so I'll include those too.
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your not really being flamed its just that this is rom development forum and your thread has nothing to do with that,or with even aiding in rom dev. maybe you should put this in the kaiser-general forum?

The only problem is I don't think noobs are going to use the search function in the general forum to find a popular rom list. They are going to come here, to rom dev. Yes they could just go up and down the forum threads looking at post totals for different roms, but we all know clueles noobs.
I would love for them to be able to input "popular roms " into the search function and have them be directed to a list. Or as we get the inevitalbe " what is the best rom " question, which gets asked here, more than in the Kaiser general forum " here is the list of popular roms ", " follow the links and test and compare for yourself "
Could be helpful.

Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.

Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
Instead of making a new thread, update the WIKI.
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agreed it is far more extensive

Travito said:
Once upon a time, XDA made this thing, it was grand, it's called THE WIKI.
Where there is already an extensive ROM list.
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And that is why the thread is not called " every rom ever written for the Kaiser " because that is in the wiki. Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
They are not looking or willing to to filter through yesterdays news just to get the newest stuff. Don't get me wrong, Leo, Dutty, NATF, and all are legends and always will be, but they have moved on. In some cases the chefs are not even supporting their old threads that are still listed in the wiki.
We hear enough complaints as it is about all the old info a noob has to go through to get the " new stuff ".
This is kind of a thanks and props to the guys that have stayed behind and still support us, and a thanks to the ( Josh, KaiserII101, ngy ) new chefs stepping up, by moving them to the top of the " every rom available for the Kaiser" list .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=492757
Go here follow the links to the latest and the greatest and decide for yourself. Easy Answer ?
Not meaning to be a jerk with so many posts, I'm just sayin............

I've got to admit that this thread helped me find a good naked ROM, namely AthineOS. I probably would have found it in the end but who knows how long that would have taken?

denco7 said:
Lets face it when the noobs come to this Kaiser forum, they are looking for the latest and the greatest, the stuff all the other kids are using.
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and that stuff 9 times out of 10 is on the 1st or 2nd page of the kaiser forum, hence threads like these AREN'T needed.
edit: not to mention that this is the "Kaiser Rom Development forum" not a come and get it/heres your menu forum, these "kids" need to be searching/learning before they EVER think about flashing a rom. or all you get is theses spoon fed "kids" not reading/searching, bricking their phones more than they do now!!!

<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>

Exactly all the most up to date things will be within first 2 pages and even if not then surely it's worth putting in the effort to find a ROM that you want and like, by that i mean to do a bit of research read some of the reviews flash it and then probably go somewhere else and flash untill you find the ROM that suits your needs and wishes, blah blah too many threadz with Help\Fastest ROM\Best ROM or just posted in the bloody wrong section.
Blah Blah Blah..............
msd24200 where's that cat when you need him?
DamionFury: I read it all and you have some valib point but time consuming is all part of it your flashing a UK £200ish phone............. Take some time, do some learning..... You don't need to use the search for Kaiser ROMs go through the pages of ROM Development and you can just flip & flip & flip till you find what you want???

I enjoy using my phone when it has a ROM that I like; I don't enjoy spending hours finding that ROM. I have far too many things I'd rather be doing. I spend the time finding the ROM because I believe that it's worth it, but anything that reduces the expenditure is great in my book.

DamionFury said:
<soapbox>
I've been lurking XDA for quite some time, have read countless threads, and flashed numerous ROMs. I'm no chef/expert, but I'm not a n00b either. My visits to XDA are far from regular and usually involve either obtaining a new ROM or checking on the status of Android on the Kaiser. I greatly appreciate the work of everyone who cooks ROMs, administrates the forum/wiki, or just generally puts in time to help the community, and try to stay out of the way unless I have a good question or something useful to add. I use the search function and the wiki religiously. In short, I'm probably a good example of the typical XDA visitor. Here's my opinion:
@Fingerlickin: Thank you. The effort is appreciated, but I don't imagine you'll want to come back and update this every few months. If you make a new wiki page or add the popularity info to the existing ROM list, other people can update it in future. Then, you could just edit your post and make it a link to the wiki (or have the mods add the link to the FAQ) so that it comes up in forum searches.
@Travito & msd24200: You say that a more extensive list can be found elsewhere and that a post like this doesn't belong in the ROM development forum. With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. Fingerlickin didn't post a list of all ROMS, he posted something of a Top 8 list. It wasn't intended to be comprehensive.
Could he have updated the wiki instead of making a new post? Sure, but (at the time of this post) that page was last updated in January.
Could any given XDA visitor get this information on their own? Yes, but it can be confusing, frustrating, and time consuming. ROM authors and update threads change, and some of the most popular ROMs are no longer maintained.
Should this be somewhere else? I don't believe so. If I'm interested in getting a ROM, I go to where the ROM developers post them. They don't post in Kaiser General, so I don't go there for ROMs. Naturally, I wouldn't expect to find a list of popular ROMs there, either.
Frankly, I think the FAQ actually has too much info, especially since there's a wiki with all of that (and more). As for the wiki, it's not the easiest thing to navigate. For example, a search for "Kaiser" brings up a list of pages, but should I click the HTC_Kaiser link, or the Kaiser link? If I'm looking for info on Kaiser ROMs, do I choose KaiserROMs or Kaiser_ROMs? KaiserROMs directs me to see either Kaiser Cooked Roms or Kaiser Shipped Roms, the latter being a link to the Kaiser_ROMs page.
My point is simply this: Fingerlickin's post lists several of the most popular, and still updated, ROMs. This info is not available on the wiki or in the FAQ, and pertains directly to the ROMs developed and posted on this forum. It might be easier to maintain if it were on the wiki, but it might end up harder to find. It's definitely not redundant or in the wrong forum, and it IS a time saver.
</soapbox>
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and again there is no point to be missing the fact is this is a rom development thread not a come and get it and here's the menu thread. THIS HAS BEEN GONE OVER AND OVER AND OVER so many times. the roms that are "hot" will always be on the first couple of pages of the forum because so many use them they don't have time to drop back to page 3. you guys that want to spoon feed should start your own website linking back to the rom threads on here then. and as far as the wiki goes it's all there and ANYONE can update the wiki at anytime.

Wouldnt it make more sense?

ive been looking over the forums for months now. i see people ask questions. and instead of given anwsers they are slammed because they should of researched first. Why? isnt it easier to just anwser a question than wasting a post saying you should of read first? if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they dont have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible anwser to their questions. the rom threads are getting too long 250+ posts average. and very often going on and off topic. so i guess what i am proposing is sub forums. let "Cooks" apply for a sub forum. not juyst any cook. but if they are making an honest to goodness contribution to the community i think it would help find information a lot easier. yes i know the forums have a search feature. but this it can still be difficult to sift throught the information.
so something like
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > JossKoss
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > Arnyl
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > MedKid
any roms a cook makes could have its own thread. and anything in the subforum would pertain to that particular person. now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation. that way people can post new threads inside the subforums without it getting moved into the thread with thousands of posts.
i dont make the decisions. im just posting something i think would help sort information and make it easier to find. that way if i have a problem with x rom. instead of reading through one thread there is a thread for each problem. then it is easy to see if that problem im having is an issue with other people. and if its been resolved. give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs. so if you agree vote Agree on the poll if you dont vote Disagree on the poll.

My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.

sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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Hey bro you wanna drink some natty ice, play some game cube?
on topic... I think it sounds like a pretty solid idea, would help with a lot of the organizational problems.

Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.

What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.

sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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well first off if you are cooking roms to release to the public , then yes you should beable to anwser most questions that arise.
and second as i stated dont just give anyone a subforum only the cooks that truly contribute. only the serious cooks that have proven themselfs.
but the kitcens have truly gotten too easy for just anyone to make their own rom. and this would also help identify who the trusted / established cooks that know what they are doing are.

stylez said:
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
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i also addressed this in my original post
GTZ said:
give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs
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GTZ said:
i also addressed this in my original post
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Yes i saw that but Mods still will have to have some control so therefore more work, as not all chefs are online and able to keep threads clean.
To be honest i like it the way it is.
just my 2p's worth.
There has been numerous threads like this generally for the software section to be split... I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........

ai6908 said:
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
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well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
GTZ said:
now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation.
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if its a well known cook and they have been around for a while i think they have kinda earned it. what im saying would be a little extra work for anyone that would be willing to create the sub forums. it would ultimatly keep roms neater.
you could then have a thread for each rom. build . why should someone read through problems of 21198 then they have been fixed in 21500. there are lots of advantages to adopting this procedure. and very few drawbacks. (yes there are some) . if nothing else lets get some of the cooks opinions.
but i thank each of you for your feedback.

stylez said:
I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
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well i think if we wernt happy with the way it is we wouldnt be here. that doesnt mean there arent things that need improvement this place is constantly growing and its not uncommon for these forums to outgrow the old ways of doing things.
but again i respect your points of view also

It would make more sense for cooks to use a unified thread titling scheme.
For example, the tilt keyboard fix still has a title of [new] or something similar on it when it is years old.
Perhaps a loose standard should be developed so it is easier to find. Note: I spelled out the date so it is obvious to europeans and americans who list them differently. I hate early month dates!!! -----> 4-5-2009 April or May?
[October 15, 2009] - Anryl - WM6.5 25000 - v1

disagree
this is my vote

What are there no mods on duty today ?
Please, not another thread by another noob/ lazy user ? slamming the seniors for telling them to search. Here are the posting rules handed down by our Queen Flar.
1. Search before posting.........this isn't a suggestion or a senior being a jerk or an " unhelpful " post..... IT IS A RULE
2. Please be polite and respect your fellow users.......... the next time a noob gives me a ration of crap about a " wasted post " and " if I can't be helpful then mind my own business " when I instruct him as to the search function and ,as I ALWAYS do, start him in the right direction, I am going to hunt him down and remove his texting thumbs.
4. Post only using a clear subject and message. ........... I swear , if you could type in " help me pleeeeeease " into the search function, it would return over a thousand separate threads . It is this, and the thousands of I tried to search , but it is so haaaaaaard threads, that make searching so hard. Not the lack of information.
I liked it better back in the " old days " when asking a redundant or stupid question or if you were a noob that dared lash out after getting told to search, you would get drawn, quartered, tarred ,feathered and then set on fire. I lurked on this site from Nov until April when I finally joined, because I was terrified to ask a question. And I am fifty times more knowledgeable because of it . If I needed a question answered, I read and search, and search and read and found my answer. Because ALL the answers are here.
The models may change but the questions are all here. It seems now all you have to do is lash out about how unhelpful this place is, or how hard it is to search or how mean all the seniors are for " wasting my time telling me to search, when in the same time they could have just answered my damn question.", and before you know it , you have people falling all over themselves trying to answer this idiot's question. Because we can't have the noobs thinking we are unfriendly.
I have said it before and I will say it again. This is a library , NOT, HTC Tech support. Much as you would not go to the librarian and say give me all you've got on.....................
You ask the librarian where you would begin your search for................ and you go gather the information for yourself. So when a senior tells you to go search and start here, it is because we are following forum rule and noobs should be directed to also. And If that is not satisfactory to them them they should be directed to HTC Tech support because they are of no benefit to this community.
I like the way it was, is and will be. Search read and search some more, it is up to you to find it , not for the rest of us to fall over ourselves making it yet even easier because ...................
GTZ said:
if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they don't have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible answser to their questions.
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..........................i'm just sayin..................................
Okay, I have had my rant and vote, Josh, you can close the thread now

I honestly dont think that is a good idea because it would make it harder for new cooks to get there roms out, if a cook really is as good as you describe (which many are) you will find there roms but yes some cooks do upgrade phones and stop cooking and the sub-topic would then start falling apart and then no one will want to delete it otherwse all of that persons roms will be gone (I guess they could just move the threads actually) But still I think it seems unfair to newer cooks becaue the way it is set up now you can see if another rom starts to gain popularity otherwise everyone would only look at the cooks that have the most experiance.
BTW- I dont know how to cook but it sounds fun and I might want to learn someday if I stop feeling lazy lol so yeah thats one of the reasons I think like this but I guess this could be helpfull in some ways

GTZ said:
well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
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There is no such thing as that! We all do this forum for free! So people do it when they find time! Once time is an issue cooks do vanish no matter how good they are! Just dont argue, read and enjoy the forum!

Let's appreciate the idea he had on his very first post, but I think We need to change the place of this discussion as well. Great buddy no more words no more options on my part, just ask anyone from senior members & they will tell you why they don't agree with this idea. They know the trend on this forum. Good Luck but I think this topic needs to be moved out of ROM upgrading atleast.

I think its lazy. You are trying to make stuff easier on yourself and make more work for the people poviding us with great ROMs, basically for free. I'm not sure if youve ever modified a forum but its no easy task. This isnt tech support. I have very few posts but thats because most of the questions are answered somewhere around here. If you dont have time to look, maybe you dont have time to flash. The rules are the rules abie by them.
Bottom line, dont make more work for the cooks, who spend hours and hours cooking for free just because you dont want to search.

[b]DISAGREE[/b]
Look at my SIG, especially the WHY ..
If you don't get the spirit, go somewhere else where people are willing to spoonfeed you. This is a developer site, not user site.
I'm not a developer, so what I can contribute is only bug reporting and testing .. and if you're not, have some respect to them, help them by doing more research. 99% of what you're looking for is there.

Chefs that would like to have their own subforum can just have another forum with a link on his topic.
This is exactly what Phoenix Dev Team does...

XDA-Devs board is a like friendly jungle. Just take your time to learn how to navigate through it, this is not that hard.
Flashing and upgrading regularly ROMs and softwares means you do have time for this. So one shall learn to have time to search. Anyway, by reading throught posts, one gets a much better control over his phone as you have more knowledge about this or that, not only a superficial approach, which will undeniably lead to a new thread: I don't get it, it's broken or similar .
Only my 2ct-philosophy...

RANT:Check out the new forums

To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.

I don't see the problem it's really the person decision making the rom. I really hate searching through hundreds of posts to find info and would like to be able to have an easier way. I wish my rom did have it's own forum. Its not like they cant ask here or the rom cant be posted here. I am sure the cooker will support both since he will receive donations from both sources.

Use search link in my sign, its a lot easier and faster to search this forum. I agree there is tons of information in here. And most of all, anything that you can think of has been asked before, all you have to know is how to search, and you will find the information you want. So starting a new thread unless you are contributing is just waste of server space!

I'll take this spot to reinforce what Travito says in the next post. Phoenix is a community driven rom and the Phoenix forum helps us prioritize what we include in a build, the fixes we do and allows us to have a very collaborative process. We do post general fixes on xda.
The OP also doesn't realize the collaboration that goes on behind the scenes between the chefs, moderators and other developers that drive the general improvements in all of the roms that are being produced. This is especially true in the Kaiser community. It is this sharing that drives innovation and improvements. This process isn't necessarily one that I would want out in the open since it is iterative and tedious at times. It takes a long time to fix bugs but we all share our experiences.
One last thing, we on the Phoenix team do NOT accept donations, solicit donations or put advertising on our forum...You see we do this because we believe in helping the community. I am not disrespecting those chefs that accept donations because circumstances vary and needs vary. I am just stating that a private forum is NOT about making money.
Parley

okay, now that my little gaffe is out of the way from being in Parley's account when i posted that, though I'm sure his opinions are similar...
We on the Phoenix team have a seperate forum because it allows for easier bug tracking. XDA threads consist mainly of "Thank yous" so it seems, and you need to realize that we all have normal jobs and social lives. When we do get time to dedicate to XDA, it becomes very tedious and time consuming trying to sort through all the thank yous and trying to figure out which issues have already been addressed by fellow Phoenix users and which are still open.
PDC lets us bug track much more similarly to a piece of Helpdesk or Knowledgebase software, except the Forum basis allows for collaboration on solutions.
Most problems that get posted at PDC are ROM-specific, and not present on every ROM. If we find a fix that others could use back at XDA, we let the other chefs that we work with know and share the knowledge.
If that bothers you then I suppose your problem is actually with the advancement of ROM support and task management.

I'm behind whatever the Chef's feel they need to do and Travito is spot on with the ammount of work just to bypass thankyou or the monotomous problem that has been answered a million times......
Without the chefs here i would have a very dull phone, infact no i would have an n73
So to chefs do as you wish just produce the awesome ROMs you do!! And i wont make a new thread!! JK

Yeah um who cares? Private forums are good for cooking teams and anyone who wants to follow the ROM dev closer.

soulbandaid said:
To all of those who feel it necessary to create a separate forum for you rom, please stop. I understand that donations do not make you a lot of money, and that the pay per hour of cooking is probably well under the minimum wage in most countries. And, that opening new forums allows you to collect your own ad revenues, or maybe even harvest emails.
The amazing roms that come out of XDA are the result of collaboration between the thousands of people working out one fix at a time. Moving that knowledge else where creates a headache for people who simply want support for your rom.
Sometimes the XDA format can be a drag.
Having only one thread for an entire rom can bury good information, but...
searching through a thread is a lot less of a mess than having to sign up for a new forum every time you want to get the newest version of a rom, or find a fix implemented by a chef.
I understand that a chef's roms are the fruits of his or her efforts, and that he or she can do what they please with them (according to some interpreations of the law). But much of the progress that allows us to cook came as a result of people openly sharing information on XDA.
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you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum

msd24200 said:
you know u shouldnt have started a new thread for this, your just wasting space this thread should be closed and thread starter should be warned of starting this bogus thread in the kaiser rom dev forum
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why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...

F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
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I agree. Frankly, I used to follow XDA and loved it. But there are so many egotistical, immature, thread Nazis and other not so nice users, lot's of time is wasted reading their nonsense. Anyway, yesterday was the 1st day back after months and I was skeptical about the Phoenix team, but after reading this thread, I'm going to check them out for sure.
--G

F2504x4 said:
why ? I think a lot of good info and intentions came from it.....if there is nothing to hide then why curtail legit threads..huh? if you do not like the threads do not read it..simple
..free flow of info is important to this site..remember the only dumb questionis the one not ask.
OP got the answers he was looking for, and some darn good ones...i to was wondering why private forums were being created instead of being kept on this site...
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DOES NOT AID IN "KAISER ROM DEVELOPMENT" enough said