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The phone I am using now has terrible reception and the camera is bad and I want a numpad. Asus p525 seems to have it all. Does anyone have opinions on the P525?
No reception problem and excellent camera. Just be sure to get one w/ serial number 69a or above.
you have no this phone but already know that it has terrible reception?
I'm as an owner of such phone can tell that reception is very good!
Camera is slow, but quality is acceptable.
my SN starts from 68A
jackleung,
where you found that good revision has to have SN starting from 69A?
i only found that pre-68 revisions could have problem with screen alignment. nothing else.
Nonono, you have it the wrong way sorg. I have an Atom now and I am saying that it is terrible. The main thing is that I am considering the price difference.
I have done a lot of research on the switch already.
The atom I have now is in perfect condition and can probably sell for 700.
The P525 in HK is on for about 500-700. For old to new. The main problem is that I don't know if I can change the language back to English myself because my Traditional Chinese is fine, but I prefer English. I see that Sorg knows a lot about this as well. I have already downloaded the ASUS.UnlocklangID.exe but I am not sure how it works. So does it just unlock it and then I can install the English 3.32? And the switch is permanent? or do i have to use it to unlock every time? I don't think the English one for 1000 is worth the change yet.
I have also looked at this thread http://forum.mypdacafe.com/viewtopic.php?t=9753 and the mobinaute review. It seems that the P525 is a lot better than the atom in the review and the benchmark results were actually pretty stunning.
I have a 1gb sd mini and a xtbtue bluetooth keyboard and I am pretty sure it will work on the P525 as well.
I mean, I can just purchase Chinese one to test it out and then change it to the English rom and then sell the Atom or P525, whichever one is not as good. But if I can't change the rom easily to another language then I probably cannot sell the P525 here at an acceptable price.
I am really considering the change because the atom isn't as good as I thought it would be. It keeps cutting off reception in my own house where as my old P800 never did. The atom is not bad, but after looking at the benchmark results in mobinaute, I really have to consider this change.
So Sorg, since you are the expert in this phone, how does the language changing process actually work with the P525?
Bros.. which country are ya one?
Atom.. did have slight reception probs for me.. Now I'm using the hp6828.. the very same problem is there.. x10!!
I'm also thinking of Asus P525/535.. and It's still not out here in SG...
I live in Canada but I have relatives going to and from HK all the time so I can get a waay better deal like that. I just hope that I can change the chinese to english...
You can change ROM from chinese to english by flashing the english ROM with all-region patch from sorg
The P525 is a fantastic device!
I finally found the device right for me!
As I dont use GPRS much, so I dont care for 3G(its just a faster way to blow more money on traffic),- so its not a minus for me. But I appreciate the very affordable price of p525, its nothing comparing to latest HTCs.
Screen is very good. On maximum brightness, its a match for sunny day, on minimum brightness its comfortable to the eyes in the total darkness.
Size is perfect for me. Yes, its larger then a phone, but hey, this is not a phone, its more of PDA. It have 2.8'' standard screen, a lot better for me than these samsungs/gsmarts that have small screens and WM5 PocketPC interface is less usable. P525 is slighty larger then TyTN/Wizard from the face side, but its thinner. And it weights the same 160g.
You should also mention that battery life is fantastic! Its more then 20 hours(!) in reading/mp3 mode - yes, actually longer then ever for HTC OMAP devices. Seems that ASUS implemented the Intel Wireless SpeedStep power-saving technology to the max extend. Did I mention ASUS have 416 MHz XScale (Bulverde), with Wireless MMX? Samsung is nothing comparing to it, I can watch PC movies over WiFi without any conversion at full FPS!
MiniSD slot, not this MicroSD crap! I can use my old 2G MiniSD card
Proper 2.5mm headset jack, so no probs in connecting third-party headsets.
Also, camera & flash is very good. Having real mechanical adaptive optics helps too, if you'll look at the camera when its focusing, you can actually see the lens moving. I think p525 is unique in that prospect.
WiFi have really good reception. Though as WiFi goes, it eats battery fast, nothing unusual here. So I think I'll stick with Bluetooth, good that p525 have Bluetooth 2.0 and Broadcomm stack supports every profile imaginable (instead of puny microsoft one).
Main loudspeaker is not as weak, its more of badly located - on the back of the device, so most of its power goes straight into table on which device is lying. These measures are very helpful:
- buy a cradle (ie one from brando workshop)
- put the device on the table "face down" (also helps to prevent excessive dust on screen and between keys)
- increase the ring melody volume in any sound editor. I've just got a "windows default" and made it up to the max - now I hear calls from thru entire appartment easely.
So I say: Beware, HTC
Though no doubt HTC will still stay much afloat due to their "everyone needs 3G" marketing buzz
sorg said:
where you found that good revision has to have SN starting from 69A?
i only found that pre-68 revisions could have problem with screen alignment. nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, what I try to point out is the screen alignment problem from exist pre-69 revision (I found some people with 68a still have this problem)
Hi cts15. First of all I am glad that you are enjoying your device and are satisfied with it in all ways. You know personal satisfaction is the most important thing.
One question for me and I would be grateful. How do you find the build quality that is how is the plastic casing, does it creek more than normal, how is the paint quality do you see any flaking, etc. You know these kind of things I am interested in. Your valuable comments regarding the build quality will be appreciated.
Thanks once again and enjoy your P525 in good health
Sorry srmz, I believe that you have mistaken my post. I am still deciding if I should get a P525.
I guess I should phrase my question more specifically. If I actually unlock the language of a HK P525 and then install the English rom, it becomes English. But does it become a English P525 or is it still a HK P525 with an English rom? For example, lets say I have installed the 3.32 with language unlock, an a 3.40 English comes out. Do I have to unlock language again? Or do I just have to install it directly because it is already a complete English version of the phone?
srmz said:
Hi cts15. First of all I am glad that you are enjoying your device and are satisfied with it in all ways. You know personal satisfaction is the most important thing.
One question for me and I would be grateful. How do you find the build quality that is how is the plastic casing, does it creek more than normal, how is the paint quality do you see any flaking, etc. You know these kind of things I am interested in. Your valuable comments regarding the build quality will be appreciated.
Thanks once again and enjoy your P525 in good health
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had my device for a couple of weeks now serial #68XXXX & in response to your questions
The plastics used is of good quality certainly no worse than that used by HTC devices. The area surrounding the screen & the back of the battery cover is covered in a brushed metal plate. The paint looks of good quality & so far no signs of flaking.
The device is nice & hefty (but not heavy) & feels good when held. As for creaking, when you hold it normally it doesn't, but if you hold it either end with both hands & twist it then yes it does creak but who would do that all the time anyway. The battery cover fits nice & tightly. I just gave it a good shake & can hear no rattles.
The buttons down the side of the phone are silvered coloured plastic & have a nice click action.
Another thing I need to clarify is that the full length stylus which was described as being plastic in a review on another website is infact untrue. It is composed of 3 parts bonded together. The top 1/3 part is indeed plastic but the main shaft is definately made of dark metal alloy the tip is of plastic.
By the way I also have a HTC Hermes (SPV M3100) & the fit & finish of the Asus is as good if not a bit better than it.
I can honestly say that the Asus is for now the best device for my needs. It is stable, unlike the SPV M3100, phone signal reception is excellent. The T9 enabled numeric keypad is great. If it had 3G (maybe even built in GPS) it would be perfect for me.
Thanks for the great post Zen123.
I have already made up my mind to get one from reading so much about it everywhere.
Thanks zen123 your input is invaluable.
Regards
Hi folks,
Well i am looking at the Cruise as a replacement for my TyTN II. I understand that under the hood, they are both pretty much the same.
I have realized a few things over the past month or two with my TyTN II;
1) I don't use the hardware keyboard as much as I thought I would (this was #1 reason for getting a TyTn II)
2) the hard keys on the front, the metallic panel is very wiggly
3) the chances of me breaking a TyTN II are more likely because of this tilting screen, loose control plates, etc
4) it's thick.
I have some questions/comments that I would love to have your input on to help me make a decision as I might be able to trade my TyTN II for a cruise.
1) In the Kaiser forum we have quite a few rom cookers and tweakers. I am not seeing to much of that here yet. Has anyone made a solid rom for this device yet?
2) The bottom left hard key looks like it's for GPS. I need a windows start button there instead, is that key re-mappable?
3) it's hard to see the hard keys a long the side. There is camera, power, anything else?
4) the circle directional key pad thing. Does that also function as a directional key pad, i.e. can i press up down left right, etc, and not just run my finger in a circular motion?
There are more questions but I can't remember at the moment.
I appreciate anyone's insight.
Thanks
Not too sure about the ROM cookers
I believe all the hard buttons are re-programmable
The circle directional key does function as a directional D-pad.
briggs81 said:
1) In the Kaiser forum we have quite a few rom cookers and tweakers. I am not seeing to much of that here yet. Has anyone made a solid rom for this device yet?
2) The bottom left hard key looks like it's for GPS. I need a windows start button there instead, is that key re-mappable?
3) it's hard to see the hard keys a long the side. There is camera, power, anything else?
4) the circle directional key pad thing. Does that also function as a directional key pad, i.e. can i press up down left right, etc, and not just run my finger in a circular motion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer your questions
1. Considering that the Polaris was released recently, I think we're doing quite well. The first 2 XDA-DEV ROMs are on the way, and industry like dumping has begun.
2. That button is a programmalbe hard key (like the messaging on the Kaiser). So it can be done (I think... but I thought I'm gonna miss that button after the Hermes, but not really ).
3. There are Camerat, Power, Volume Slider, and Voice recording buttons on the sides.
4. Yes, it works as a 4-way D-pad.
Hmm so far so good guys.
I think I am liking the idea of how flush the screen is with the rest of the device. Right now I am typing using the touch keyboard on my kaiser, btu the kaiser has some grooves along the side where it meets the screen so it feels a little akward when usign to hands to type. I think with a flush screen to device that would be a bit more comfortable.
It's really hard to get myself over a hardware keyboard. I love it because it doesnt take up screen real estate, but I am not writing out word docs very often, usually just OneNote notes in point form.
It also just looks like there is less stuff to physically break on this thing, which I consider a plus.
I am glad to hear there are some xda roms coming, this is very important to me. i don't know what I'd do if I didnt have a solid Kaiser rom from xda members.
There are a couple of good youtube vids using that circular jog wheel, i need to see a few more. I am very concerned about loose parts, which the kaiser has 3 of (the screen, the hard keys on the front, and the jog wheel is a bit loose feeling too!)
On the Polaris only the Volume slider feels a bit flimsy, that's it... but it's massive as hell, it won't come off
briggs81 said:
Hmm so far so good guys.
I think I am liking the idea of how flush the screen is with the rest of the device. Right now I am typing using the touch keyboard on my kaiser, btu the kaiser has some grooves along the side where it meets the screen so it feels a little akward when usign to hands to type. I think with a flush screen to device that would be a bit more comfortable.
It's really hard to get myself over a hardware keyboard. I love it because it doesnt take up screen real estate, but I am not writing out word docs very often, usually just OneNote notes in point form.
It also just looks like there is less stuff to physically break on this thing, which I consider a plus.
I am glad to hear there are some xda roms coming, this is very important to me. i don't know what I'd do if I didnt have a solid Kaiser rom from xda members.
There are a couple of good youtube vids using that circular jog wheel, i need to see a few more. I am very concerned about loose parts, which the kaiser has 3 of (the screen, the hard keys on the front, and the jog wheel is a bit loose feeling too!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am moving to the Orbit 2 (Touch Cruise) from the Tytn II. my primary reasons are (a) i didn't use the hardware keyboard as much as as thought i'd would and (b) after getting and using the Sprint (HTC) Touch, i like the flush screen and smaller size device. granted the Orbit 2 is taller and slightly thicker than the Touch, it's smaller and weighs less than the Tytn II. i'm finding that i can manage quite well with a keyboard-less device. the one exception is using my Blackjack II when i'm managing multiple projects; i have to compose more detailed email responses and prefer to do so with a static keyboard.
Well it's good to see that I am on the same page as some folks.
My biggest fear with the tytn ii was dropping it while the keyboard was out, that could be disastrous. Broken corpse of a device laying on the city bus floor. Scary.
Another question, the volume slider on the side, do you have to be in windows media player or audio manager for it to function as volume control, or will it change volume of the device no matter what screen you are on?
the tytn II's jog wheel only changes the volume if you have audio manager maximized, as it does more then just function as volume control.
I also own this device and I am pretty sure it would work with the cruise, well it should. I think (hope) it works with the radio as well, any one have it? probably not.. lol
briggs81 said:
Another question, the volume slider on the side, do you have to be in windows media player or audio manager for it to function as volume control, or will it change volume of the device no matter what screen you are on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Until now I have been able to adjust the volume no matter what program is running and how (maximized/minimized). It works while running TomTom, it works while playing brokensword demo, it works without anyprogram running. It even works when the device is locked, don't know if that is really desirable but I think you can configure that behavior.
Have to note that I am a fresh owner so I am still customizing, testing and exploring the polaris...
i just HAVE gone from a Stellar to an Orbit 2 - partially because i can, and i'm a bot of a phone tart, and partially because i wanted a radio.
Leaving the keyboard issue aside, the Orbit 2 is quite simply the king of these sorts of devices - i have variously used:
XDA I, XDA II, IIi, IIs, Mini, Exec, Mitac A701, ETen G500, Eten Glofish (for about 4 seconds, it's awful), iPaq HW6915, Orbit, Stellar, Orbit 2 - ok, i've covered a lot of ground, and a period when this stuff is developing, but the Orbit 2, apart from having a rotten name sits on the top of the pile.
I also wasn't using the keyboard much, and the size and weight of the Stellar was annoying me, because i want something i can put in my pocket - though i loved the iPaq - the O2 (see what i did there?) has so many different on screen keyboard options that you will find something you are comfortable with, it's fast, it's quite nice to look at, and with the improved camera and radio it is exactly what i want - also
it takes Micro SDHC
the media player is loud
now, my reccomendation is based on my criteria, by definition, but if it's any comparison, this is the iPhone killer.
Thanks for all the input so far. I am still just trying to imagine myself with less hard keys. Pretty hard! Now I just need my dealer to give m ea good deal on my tytn II so i can get a cruise if i decide to! Getting closer though..
Anyone have any serious negatives they have found with using it, for yourself?
I may have come across something from keepign me from buying the cruise.
The FM Radio.
Do I HAVE to use the headset that comes with it to use the radio, or can I use my expensive HTC remote device?
It says it comes with a built in tuner, so I assume so, but just wanted to make sure..
briggs81 said:
I may have come across something from keepign me from buying the cruise.
The FM Radio.
Do I HAVE to use the headset that comes with it to use the radio, or can I use my expensive HTC remote device?
It says it comes with a built in tuner, so I assume so, but just wanted to make sure..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah as far as i know you need to have the headset connected, as it works as an antenna as well!
I imagine in a similar way to many people in these forums I had hit a brick wall on PDA functionality. I was was waiting for Kaiser to be THE all in one and just as I was about to buy one I discovered the shortcomings. So, having sold my TyTn and bluetooth, solar GPS receiver I brought an Athena. Wonderful piece of kit but in the end it had to go as it was just too bulky.
Having heard that the 9502 was imminent I brought an HP 9515 to see me through to it's realease.
Two weeks ago I placed a pre-order for the 9502 with Powerupmobile as stock was due on the 24th and to my surprise (and slightly disturbing swelling in my manhood) it arrived last Friday (18th April) so I have had a weekend to play.
Out of the box the overriding feeling was 'heavy'. TyTn was ABS plastic but this is (and I stand corrected) magnesium alloy encased. Personally I find that comforting...remember when B&O put lead weights in their remotes to make the quality more tactile?
Runinng WM6 which we are all familiar with there are no real surprises except to say that the 640x480 screen IS beautiful!
Down the left hand side you have JOG Wheel and 'OK' button (very blackberry and very friendly) as well as a shortcut button to the wireless comms. The charging/hardwire comms facility (mini USB) is also present this side rather than on the southern aspect.
Down The right hand side is a '+' and '-' rocker switch for volume etc, voice memo and camera activation buttons as well as a 2.5mm stereo jack.
The stainless steel telescopic pointer is housed to the top right whilst the power button is on the top, horizontal face of the unit.
The face of the unit has buttons for MESSAGING, INTERNET, START, OK, RECEIVER UP AND DOWN and a FOUR WAY THUMB PAD + SELECTOR BUTTON. To access the MicroSD HC slot you have to remove the rear battery case, but not the battery itself.
Right
Left Back
Top
Bottom
Screen up
Battery exposed
On arrival I loaded all my usual software and all has worked fine with one exception...it seems that after using TomTom6, quitting the application and letting the unit timeout, it will not reactivate on the standard power depress. I have had to soft reset. I will make I-Mate aware of this.
-------I have subsequently discovered that this is a one off and the unit is being swapped out- 22-04-08-----------
All comms functions are manually startable so you have to remember to enable the GPS radio prior to starting your satnav software.
In much the way as TyTn an Kaiser the screen can be pushed to reveal a full QWERTY keyboard (though the numerics are still FN dependant) and the keyboard is backlit depending on the ambient lighting conditions.
The screen behaves more like a Samsung phone inasmuch as it 'flicks' up and down.
The reason I didn't buy Kaiser was because of the video playback problems dirctly attributable to the drivers for the Qualcomm hardware. What is ironic with the 9502 is that it is Qualcomm based but at 320x240 video plays back just fine. Using TCPMP to watch Star Wars Episode III with TCPMP in 'Raw Frame buffer mode' the movie was totally watchable. I will test 640x480 when I get time.
The GPS is easy to set up (on COM9 at either 5,400 or 115,000 baud) with more channels (and therefore more accuracy) than any other PDA I have used with an inbuilt receiver. The cold start time is between 15 secs and one minute depending on the normal constraints. There is no 'Quick GPS' facility.
I haven't been able to test HSDPA yet but all the radio's seem to give good reception so there's no reason to assume that throughput will be anything other than expected.
So, Kaiser Killer? For me, yes without doubt but don't forget this luurvely piece of kit hast only just been released. It WILL get better.
Now, who makes it?
PS if anyone wants me to test it anyway or wants more info, let me know.
Amazing!
Wow! This is one nice phone. I've been disappointed in my touch dual for some time now (eventhough Its not been too long since I bought it!) and been looking for a replacement but none of the phones I've seen look as 'sleek'.
I may just look into this one more.
I see that this one also has the same qualcomm chipset. What is the video playback like?
Does it have bad lag like all the other htc qualcomm pdas (like the touch dual)?
Does it slow down when you keep the screen pressed?
One more thing....I cant see it from any pictures, but is the screen beveled or is it flush with the sides?
Awesome. I've been wanting one of those since they were announced. After this little review you posted, I might think about actually getting one. Thanks
That be a bezelled screen me lad.
Duplicate post.
Duplicate post
Using TCPMP to watch video there were initially problems with a huge amount of frame ripping. This was quickly resolved by switching to from DiractDraw to GDI codec and upping the buffer to 4mb. This was at 320x240. Will try reformatting to 640x480 asap but I don't hold out a lot of hope that watchability will be as good.
Don't know what you mean by 'keep the screen pressed'.
It is indeed a bevelled screen surround.
Why does every new device got to be the "Kaiser" killer?
Also, what is with the internet and email buttons being by the ear speaker at the top? Everytime I answer a call I'm going to open an email.
By way of an update to the issue with TomTom6, it turns out that my unit is faulty. At random it won't come out of standby. Completely unpredicatable and unrelated to TomTom, it transpires. PowerupMobile.com have organised a direct swapout so hopefully it's just a bit of bad luck. Bodes well for Powerup Mobile though. I was concerned that as they were nearly £100 cheaper than expansys the service might not be as good. Great response from their tech guy/guys too.
If you put your phone yo your head with that kind of sustained pressure your in for serious ear problems.
Kaiser killer cause it's less money, a better product out of the box (4 x the screen resolution) and it all works as it's supposed to (with the exception of mine which is, of course, a one off problem). HTC have long been repackaging the same hardware and charging more and more for it with little increase in functionality. I was a hardened HTC fan as my PDA record shows, but to tout a unit as the most powerful of it's type, hike the price and then turn out a unit which is effectively a TyTn with a GPS and a video problem isn't too customer focused...stockholder focused perhaps; to then refuse to sort a DRIVER problem....firmware no less...tends to put one off. In my humble opinion, if a 'Kaiser Killer' comes along and forces HTC to turn out better products at a more competetive price, I'll be back with them.
Oh yeah, and it's a catchy title.
i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks
Eurosportler said:
i´m also interested in this phone.
could you please upload some pics taken with the camera. best would be in dark light and with text.
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will do. Give me 24 hrs though. By 'with text' I assume you mean a text imprint overlaid direct?
yes, that is what i meant with "text"
thank you for the fast response.
Could you please tell us how responsive is this device compared to the kaiser lets say. I mean do you have any problems of it being slow? I am asking because VGA screen resolution is sometimes a burden for processors and there are some examples of "slow" VGA devices.
Do you have memory leaking problems? I have heard a lot about the considerably low 30mb free RAM after a reboot, but if it remains there after starting and closing programs, I don't believe it is an issue.
Finally, could try to make some benchmarks and post the result. Try to use SPB or sktools so that there are comparable results.
Sorry for the long request message, but I seriously thinking of buying this device, and it is good to know some things before I finally decide.
Thanks!
I hate to burst your bubble, guys but since the technical specs(incl. CPU) are pretty much the same as on the Kaiser(HTC TyTN II), don't you think that i-mate just put Kaiser technology into a different(yes, nicer) outfit?! Just my 2 cents worth...
@P996: yes but you are missing the VGA spec which is something "different" to what we have seen up until now. Moreover, if imate has actually managed to use the processor efficiently so to cope with the VGA resolution demands, that we are talking about something completely new, considering the size and offers (GPS, wi/fi, VGA, keyboard). I don't think there is something similar in the market now and all its offers are called new technology.
@edenc: sorry but I have on more question . I have also read some comments about battery life. Do you think it is ok, or it might be an issue? How does it compare again to the kaiser lets say?
Diamond killer???
lol
just read the thread.. sorry
Oh its completely a Kaiser Killer. Everything about it is better. All my mates who have a Kaiser want my 9502, but the video drivers are still shockingly bad (sorry to sound like a broken record). I never even considered a Kaiser - it seemed like a downgrade from the Hermes in terms of the features that I regularly use.
The 9502 can play perfect qvga video, but it looks rubbish on the VGA screen. Other than that (and no SDHC support) this is, in my opinion much better than anything that is currently on the market, and will be until the X1 comes out.
ya. cant wait for X1 with 3" 800x480 WVGA!
compare to that fake diamond at 2.8" VGA 640x480! haha
you may also want to repost your article to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=351788
When the X1 was first announced, I was all over it. Then the Touch Pro with TF3D was announced, and I thought... the X1 is too 'raw' compared to the 'slick' Touch Pro, so Touch Pro for me!
Then I tried the FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) and I was disappointed in a few areas where I was not expecting to be disappointed (details below).
So, as it stands today, I am leaning back toward the X1 over the FUZE (TP). But it's a close call, and I'm still undecided. Here’s why:
1. Xperia hardware looks like a device that I would be proud to be paired with. In other words, just like Apple, Sony understands that a gadget can also be a fashion accessory. That’s a 2-fer in terms of value-add.
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.). Yikes, that’s not a marginal difference in price, is it? I’m not sure I can justify a 4x price difference for a phone that is about 1.5x as good. Or, can I? Well, it’s like buying clothing: I can spend $200 on a shirt or $10 on a shirt. They both cover my torso about as effectively, but which one do I want people to see me paired with? This goes back to the gadget-as-accessory frame.
6. Panels. I figured they would be a dead platform as soon as 09, but the new facebook panel could be a game-changer. It shows how Panels could be the equiv to iPhone apps! Will panels have market mojo? What incentives are Sony peddling for developers to get on board? What kind of penetration can panels have if limited to only 1 device? Very chicken/egg situation here, and kind of a risk for X1 owners if they are relying on panels to breathe life into WM6.1.
7. TouchFlo 3D on X1. If this really ends up being portable to the X1 with 100% functionality and no bugs, then the X1 ends up being the more flexible device of the two. But 100% compatibility seems to be a ways off still, for many good reasons. Conversely, it is highly unlikely for several reasons that the TP would ever get panels. Sure, they might be portable over to the TouchPro HD, but that’s not the TP/FUZE, is it?
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
10. Screen rotation. OK, big minus for X1 to have no G-sensor, but big plus for X1 for its apparent "instant switch" technology between landscape and portrait modes! I've seen some videos and it's quite impressive in Opera. One of the reasons why I 'dread' to go to my slide-out keyboard on my S710 is due to the lag. It's just painful to wait. If there were no "wait tax" on using the slide-out keyboard, I might go to it more readily.
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
So, this is where I am right now re: X1 v. FUZE. To be honest, I am kind of looking for excuses to cheap out and get the FUZE just so I'm not spending $700 on a friggin phone. But the thickness and weight are things that I'd have to adjust to.
Does anyone have any thoughts/comments/additions to this analysis?
Jon
[cross-posted on Xperia X1 and Raphael forums so I can get both viewpoints]
I too was stuck between the X1 and Touch Pro. But I think the X1 hideous. The specs are pretty much the same but you lose the G sensor and only gain .2in of screen. But the 3in screen is narrower then the TP so it looks smaller when your looking at the phone the in one hand. But they keyboard is what really killed it for me :-(.
I just returned my Xperia and should have my Fuze from Amazon tomorrow. I loved everything about Xperia except the buttons below the screen. I just couldn't accept that quality on a $700 phone. I got Fuze only as a short-term toy as it cost me only $100 after $25 rebate from Amazon. I plan to sell it as soon as I see something more impressive. Maybe N97, or an Android phone. Whatever it is, it should have 3G on AT&T as I am stuck with AT&T for 2-years.
My experience with Xperia in 2-weeks:
Tried all kinds of customizations from XDA including TF3D, spPanel skins, Youtube, XperiaTweeks, etc. In the end, I discovered Xperia out the box with just the following customizations makes it a beast of a phone if the front buttons don't bother you as much as they bothered me.
1. XperiaTweaks has to be the best. It lets you customize some little annoying things with Xperia like increasing font size, sorting contacts by FirstNames, default panel on startup
2. Blackstone Keyboard
3. Youtube installed as a panel
4. Facebook Panel
I was totally impressed by TouchFlow3D as a panel as it has a WOW factor to it. But, each day I found myself going back to the Sony Ericsson Panel that I customized with weather, e-mails, RSS feeds, calendar, etc. Eventually, I made that as the default panel to start by Xperia using XperiaTweaks. Eventually, I un-installed the TF3D's as the Landscape fix program I installed for TF3D seems to be causing problems with my phone when I slideout the keyboard.
Some issues (some minor) I had with Xperia.
1. I could not reconnect to the Bluetooth of my GPS unit in my car if I stepped away for a short time with my phone. This didn't happen with my W910 phone. To get the Bluetooth work I had to restart my Xperia and even the GPS unit all the time.
2. Build quality of the buttons below the screen.
3. Sometimes I found myself sliding out the keyboard as I was holding the bottom part of phone hard.
4. Hard to select menu's with finger. Ended up getting used to D-pad.
5. The Picture ID on my W910 shows a picture that covers almost half the screen and I can easily see while on Xperia the picture is about the size of a penny and is almost useless. The call logs also show the names so tiny and is almost impossible to go through the call logs while driving.
I would go for the Touch Pro
The best phones I have ever had were Sony Ericssons (T637, P910a) and I too lusted after an Xperia but...
1. SE is dying or dead already
2. SE and HTC are, reportedly, parting ways
3. There isn't and won't be enough units running the panels interface to make it attractive for developers to bring apps
So, if you spend the $ on the Xperia, you'll be sitting on the sidelines, watching windows mobile for VGA developers aping the cool apps coming for the iPhone and wishing that more than just a small percentage would work on your SE.
Just my $0.02.
TouchPro vs. X1
I too was lusting after the SE X1 after it was announced (about a year ago) and said "that is my next phone".
I read website after website with videos, reviews/previews, etc.. and I couldn't have been more excited for "my phone" to be released here in the states.
Well....it came time for a decision a few months ago and the X1 still wasn't widely available in the states so I waited....and waited. Delay after delay from SE and the comparisons for the TouchPro and X1 were starting to trickle out and they weren't looking good for the X1. Yeah, the panel interface was amazing if utilized proficiently but the interface was laggy. The phone was expensive and the keyboard was terrible.
I was coming from a Hermes (8525) so I was fairly pleased with my existing keyboard and once I saw the Sprint version of the TP I was hooked. The keyboard is brilliant. For someone who emails/txt dozens of times/day the new TPO keyboard is a HUGE time saver. Long gone are the days of softkey input for special commonly used characters "@", "(", ")", etc.. This just made for a more streamlined user experience. The X1 is restricted by having only four rows of keys. The same as my Hermes.
Yeah, the X1 has the panels and that gorgeous screen (and it is beautiful!) but with the exact same internals I see no real world benefit in owning one.
Just my opinion.
JC
I'll offer my insight point by point as I feel qualified to respond...
JonDeutsch said:
2. I have found the FUZE to be too heavy and bricky to be really pocket-friendly. This was a major disappointment when I checked it out at AT&T last week! I was all ready to buy the FUZE when I realized that it would take a serious adjustment to have that kind of weight and thickness in my pocket. It remains to be seen how I feel about the X1’s weight and thickness (since it's not released yet in the States). But, in terms of the specs published, the X1 looks to be about .5oz lighter than the FUZE. NOTE: The FUZE for some odd reason seems to be .5oz heavier than the Sprint Touch Pro and the HTC Touch Pro. No idea why.
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FUZE size is a bit awkward at first...I switched to it from an iPhone, but after about 3 days it was only natural. In a way, I always liked a bit larger / heavier phone because you know its there. Every smaller / skinnier phone i've had (compared to the fuze or 8125) I often felt naked with even when it was in pocket.
JonDeutsch said:
3. The X1 has more hard buttons on the front panel, and more easily pressed hard buttons on the front panel. I have heard serious complaints about the “up” arrow on the X1 d-pad, but I will have to see for myself if that is insurmountable. I have played with FUZE, and the front panel buttons are not confidence-inspiring. I feel like it’s a negotiation with each press of the dpad.
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Fuze dpad is very awkward at first...but it becomes second nature in no time flat - i have no problem navigating in the dark at this point.
JonDeutsch said:
4. The absence of the g-sensor on the X1 is stunning, and quite disappointing. What a huge bummer. What the heck was Sony thinking? G-sensors = cool + fun. Xperia = cool+fun. What am I missing?
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bummer that its missing - but at the same time, theres no real item that the fuze is taking advantage of it with so far. beyond the wow factor of labyrinth for about 5 minutes....
JonDeutsch said:
5. The FUZE is about $175 w/plan on AT&T, and the X1 will be around $700 retail in a few weeks (with coupons, etc.).
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damn thats expensive...
JonDeutsch said:
8. Keyboards. I’ve read some horrific reviews of the X1 keyboard, but they’ve been scattered and not consistent. So, I guess I’ll have to wait to actually try one myself to see how bad it really is. I tested out the FUZE keyboard, and I know it gets rave reviews, but coming from my HTC S710/Vox, I found the lack of space between the keys troubling. I’m sure I’d get used to it, but it seems like the X1’s layout (with spaces between keys) is more like my S710’s layout, which I find quite comfortable to type on. I am quite concerned about the lack of tactile feedback on the X1 keyboard, though. If there’s no feedback, then what’s the point of a hardware keyboard? Again, reviews have not been satisfactory around this aspect of the X1, so I’ll have to wait to see for myself.
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Click to collapse
The keyboard feels cramped at first, but you adjust in a very short amount of time....again, several days and you wont think twice of it...probably? lol
JonDeutsch said:
9. Touchiness. I found the FUZE to be fiddly with touch sensitivity. Too often, a swipe was interpreted as a select, which was quite annoying. I've read that the X1 has a better touch experience, but that will be something I'll have to xperience myself, I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same problem with the stock rom...however, with tf3dconfig tweaks (or registry edits directly should you so choose) it responds MUCH nicer and I no longer run into these problems. There may also be a small degree of "self training" on this one.
JonDeutsch said:
11. Dpad+ features. The FUZE has the circular zoom thang, and the X1 has the glidey thing. No idea which is preferable. Both are interesting in their own way.
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circle zoom is no iphone multitouch, but it works pretty damn well with opera in my experiences. Also nice for text size in messages etc.
I think from your feelings, you may be best off getting the fuze and using it for a while, and maybe picking up a used X1 down the line. That said, ive never even got to hold an X1...but i have trouble imagining its worth 2-4x the price of the fuze. But...if its really a fashion / toy thing to you - you could very well feel differently.
While some may argue you should have no initial complaints with a device - and that may be true, but it isnt the reality today with 99% of phones for 99% of people - its sort of expected you have some gripes with some aspects. That said, most of your feelings seem spot on with things that I initially pandered about but soon adjusted to. I was just happy to have service in my living and travelling area again (goddam iphone...)
I also think kitsVA, dgduris, and jcotterman all hit very VERY valid points on the software side of thigns, so I will not bother getting into that.
good luck in whatever your decision may be!
I went through this dilemma too. I calculated that I would save around $200 if I went for a used TP rather than a used xperia. With $150-200, you could get an unlimited data plan for a year, or buy a working GPS, etc. etc.
The touch pro isn't bad if you don't wear tight pants. I have a wallet which is much larger in dimension than my TP! I come from a very thin razr I once fit in my pocket and the change didn't both me.
Good luck with your choice!
I'm a two year Kaiser user and have been happy with it generally. But the small screen and resolution, plus sluggish CPU is making me want to upgrade.
However HTC (and seemingly other manufacturers) seem to be shifting all UI interaction to the screen only (practically). I know I'm not the only one saddened by this, as d-pads and jog dials have their place and offer guaranteed responsiveness and precision which no screen tech can easily match. Unless you have fingers that look like stylii and a permanently steady hand.
Anyway, I'm just interested to hear if there are other people out there wishing for a Touch Pro 3 / Leo / Kaiser hybrid? Nice big screen, Snapdragon but a little d-pad squirrelled away at the bottom and jogger on the side. I wouldn't mind the phone being a bit longer to make it all fit.
Oh and I'm a business user and can appreciate that on a device like the Leo aimed more at the mass-market, the missing buttons aren't so important. But I think the Touch Pro line could do with them.
More than agree!
hardware keyboard is a must for me also, 2 lines of production I can see:
One for more multimedia non professional use like Leo and the second with more business capabilities like the keyboard
I´m sure TP3 will come out with larger screen, snapdragon and more surprises, but we have to wait at least 6 months for that.
just my opinion
Here some possible options:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=556749
i agree completely !
one of the things that i hate about mobile phone design is that everyone thinks that to make a better phone than the iphone you have to copy it rather than take the best ideas and improve on them.
i'm eagerly awaiting news of the touch pro 3 (rather than the touch hd2 / leo) because a hardware keyboard is important to me - i'm hoping that they'll include a scroll wheel and d-pad like my old kaiser in a form factor of my current xperia with a decent processor and the latest version of tf3d. they're all htc devices so it shouldn't be too hard ...
I agree, too. I still use my iPaq 210 daily not only because of the 4in screen, but for the dpad. It just doesn't feel like a pda without one. I would actually prefer phones to come wit jog dials on the side, but that's just a personal preference. How are we supposed to get anything done without them? I recently got a TD2, and while i like it, i don't think I will ever have it replace both my phone and PDA for lack of buttons. The main reason my BA was used so long was for all of its buttons.
I'm surprised to see people sticking up for jog dials -- I'd argue that the dial on my Kaiser is terrible, and WM doesn't handle 'em well anyways.
Dpads are nice, though. I'm particularly fond of the "stealth" pad on the Touch Pro.
At the same time, they're getting less and less useful. As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
I agree that they are being used less in programs, but honestly how could you like the touch pro dpad? It is probably the worst i've ever used
typo said:
As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
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Finger friendliness is one thing, but buttons just can't be beaten in some cases. E.g. I use Profimail for email and when replying, I often need to position the text cursor (?) at the very top. If I do this with a finger it's very tricky to get it in the right place. Or positioning the cursor between the words for adding / removing characters etc. is easier with a D-pad. Or when walking and wanting to do things on the phone without giving the full concentration you'd need by focussing on and positioning your finger on the display.
I agree though the usefulness is decreasing but I just don't think it will ever decrease to the point the D-Pad should be removed, but HTC obviously do.
But people are concentrating on the benefits of faster cpus and forgetting the drawbacks of slower input.