Database Info

Cleaning up the Wizard Forum

Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.

jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).

I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.

And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...

nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...

all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them

shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.

ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.

mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at

Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".

No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.

ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3

jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.

I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.

Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.

hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!

jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....

jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...

Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.

Wouldnt it make more sense?

ive been looking over the forums for months now. i see people ask questions. and instead of given anwsers they are slammed because they should of researched first. Why? isnt it easier to just anwser a question than wasting a post saying you should of read first? if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they dont have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible anwser to their questions. the rom threads are getting too long 250+ posts average. and very often going on and off topic. so i guess what i am proposing is sub forums. let "Cooks" apply for a sub forum. not juyst any cook. but if they are making an honest to goodness contribution to the community i think it would help find information a lot easier. yes i know the forums have a search feature. but this it can still be difficult to sift throught the information.
so something like
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > JossKoss
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > Arnyl
xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser ROM development > MedKid
any roms a cook makes could have its own thread. and anything in the subforum would pertain to that particular person. now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation. that way people can post new threads inside the subforums without it getting moved into the thread with thousands of posts.
i dont make the decisions. im just posting something i think would help sort information and make it easier to find. that way if i have a problem with x rom. instead of reading through one thread there is a thread for each problem. then it is easy to see if that problem im having is an issue with other people. and if its been resolved. give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs. so if you agree vote Agree on the poll if you dont vote Disagree on the poll.

My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.

sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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Hey bro you wanna drink some natty ice, play some game cube?
on topic... I think it sounds like a pretty solid idea, would help with a lot of the organizational problems.

Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.

What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.

sakshamkatyal said:
My friend, although your spirit is so good, but your means doesn't justify your ends. We need more cooks & not three of them. This will make things more unequal. We could have had it in the form of kitchens thread but believe me even that doesn't justify its goal. What if someone like me cooks a ROM & I may have to tell mods to make another sub-thread for me, then do you think I will be able to answer all the threads which will come up related to issues of my ROM? Wonder all things getting messed up. Nothing more nothing less bro. Make it more lean & it will solve many problems. Good Luck bro. Appreciating your suggestions again.
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well first off if you are cooking roms to release to the public , then yes you should beable to anwser most questions that arise.
and second as i stated dont just give anyone a subforum only the cooks that truly contribute. only the serious cooks that have proven themselfs.
but the kitcens have truly gotten too easy for just anyone to make their own rom. and this would also help identify who the trusted / established cooks that know what they are doing are.

stylez said:
What a load of faffing about......
Mods don't get paid and would make more work for them as more to cover.
For all the info people get from XDA is free, so maybe a bit of searching isn't that bad if you want something bad enough you will find it.
Peace.
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i also addressed this in my original post
GTZ said:
give the cook mod status of the particular sub forum and they can moderate it themselfs
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GTZ said:
i also addressed this in my original post
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Yes i saw that but Mods still will have to have some control so therefore more work, as not all chefs are online and able to keep threads clean.
To be honest i like it the way it is.
just my 2p's worth.
There has been numerous threads like this generally for the software section to be split... I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........

ai6908 said:
Cooks come and go! It sure wont make sense to have a sub-forum for them! If you follow xda for a while, you will understand what I am talking about.
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well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
GTZ said:
now im not saying give one to just any person that half cooks a rom. it could even be based on a threashhold if the rom gets so many posts .. 200. or by votes. or just by the cooks reputation.
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if its a well known cook and they have been around for a while i think they have kinda earned it. what im saying would be a little extra work for anyone that would be willing to create the sub forums. it would ultimatly keep roms neater.
you could then have a thread for each rom. build . why should someone read through problems of 21198 then they have been fixed in 21500. there are lots of advantages to adopting this procedure. and very few drawbacks. (yes there are some) . if nothing else lets get some of the cooks opinions.
but i thank each of you for your feedback.

stylez said:
I think XDA is set up the way it is and lets just be happy with the community and wealth of information we have..........
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well i think if we wernt happy with the way it is we wouldnt be here. that doesnt mean there arent things that need improvement this place is constantly growing and its not uncommon for these forums to outgrow the old ways of doing things.
but again i respect your points of view also

It would make more sense for cooks to use a unified thread titling scheme.
For example, the tilt keyboard fix still has a title of [new] or something similar on it when it is years old.
Perhaps a loose standard should be developed so it is easier to find. Note: I spelled out the date so it is obvious to europeans and americans who list them differently. I hate early month dates!!! -----> 4-5-2009 April or May?
[October 15, 2009] - Anryl - WM6.5 25000 - v1

disagree
this is my vote

What are there no mods on duty today ?
Please, not another thread by another noob/ lazy user ? slamming the seniors for telling them to search. Here are the posting rules handed down by our Queen Flar.
1. Search before posting.........this isn't a suggestion or a senior being a jerk or an " unhelpful " post..... IT IS A RULE
2. Please be polite and respect your fellow users.......... the next time a noob gives me a ration of crap about a " wasted post " and " if I can't be helpful then mind my own business " when I instruct him as to the search function and ,as I ALWAYS do, start him in the right direction, I am going to hunt him down and remove his texting thumbs.
4. Post only using a clear subject and message. ........... I swear , if you could type in " help me pleeeeeease " into the search function, it would return over a thousand separate threads . It is this, and the thousands of I tried to search , but it is so haaaaaaard threads, that make searching so hard. Not the lack of information.
I liked it better back in the " old days " when asking a redundant or stupid question or if you were a noob that dared lash out after getting told to search, you would get drawn, quartered, tarred ,feathered and then set on fire. I lurked on this site from Nov until April when I finally joined, because I was terrified to ask a question. And I am fifty times more knowledgeable because of it . If I needed a question answered, I read and search, and search and read and found my answer. Because ALL the answers are here.
The models may change but the questions are all here. It seems now all you have to do is lash out about how unhelpful this place is, or how hard it is to search or how mean all the seniors are for " wasting my time telling me to search, when in the same time they could have just answered my damn question.", and before you know it , you have people falling all over themselves trying to answer this idiot's question. Because we can't have the noobs thinking we are unfriendly.
I have said it before and I will say it again. This is a library , NOT, HTC Tech support. Much as you would not go to the librarian and say give me all you've got on.....................
You ask the librarian where you would begin your search for................ and you go gather the information for yourself. So when a senior tells you to go search and start here, it is because we are following forum rule and noobs should be directed to also. And If that is not satisfactory to them them they should be directed to HTC Tech support because they are of no benefit to this community.
I like the way it was, is and will be. Search read and search some more, it is up to you to find it , not for the rest of us to fall over ourselves making it yet even easier because ...................
GTZ said:
if most people are like me (and i assume they are) they don't have time to search through thousands of posts just to find a possible answser to their questions.
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..........................i'm just sayin..................................
Okay, I have had my rant and vote, Josh, you can close the thread now

I honestly dont think that is a good idea because it would make it harder for new cooks to get there roms out, if a cook really is as good as you describe (which many are) you will find there roms but yes some cooks do upgrade phones and stop cooking and the sub-topic would then start falling apart and then no one will want to delete it otherwse all of that persons roms will be gone (I guess they could just move the threads actually) But still I think it seems unfair to newer cooks becaue the way it is set up now you can see if another rom starts to gain popularity otherwise everyone would only look at the cooks that have the most experiance.
BTW- I dont know how to cook but it sounds fun and I might want to learn someday if I stop feeling lazy lol so yeah thats one of the reasons I think like this but I guess this could be helpfull in some ways

GTZ said:
well what i was saying is give it to the ones that have earned it.
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There is no such thing as that! We all do this forum for free! So people do it when they find time! Once time is an issue cooks do vanish no matter how good they are! Just dont argue, read and enjoy the forum!

Let's appreciate the idea he had on his very first post, but I think We need to change the place of this discussion as well. Great buddy no more words no more options on my part, just ask anyone from senior members & they will tell you why they don't agree with this idea. They know the trend on this forum. Good Luck but I think this topic needs to be moved out of ROM upgrading atleast.

I think its lazy. You are trying to make stuff easier on yourself and make more work for the people poviding us with great ROMs, basically for free. I'm not sure if youve ever modified a forum but its no easy task. This isnt tech support. I have very few posts but thats because most of the questions are answered somewhere around here. If you dont have time to look, maybe you dont have time to flash. The rules are the rules abie by them.
Bottom line, dont make more work for the cooks, who spend hours and hours cooking for free just because you dont want to search.

[b]DISAGREE[/b]
Look at my SIG, especially the WHY ..
If you don't get the spirit, go somewhere else where people are willing to spoonfeed you. This is a developer site, not user site.
I'm not a developer, so what I can contribute is only bug reporting and testing .. and if you're not, have some respect to them, help them by doing more research. 99% of what you're looking for is there.

Chefs that would like to have their own subforum can just have another forum with a link on his topic.
This is exactly what Phoenix Dev Team does...

XDA-Devs board is a like friendly jungle. Just take your time to learn how to navigate through it, this is not that hard.
Flashing and upgrading regularly ROMs and softwares means you do have time for this. So one shall learn to have time to search. Anyway, by reading throught posts, one gets a much better control over his phone as you have more knowledge about this or that, not only a superficial approach, which will undeniably lead to a new thread: I don't get it, it's broken or similar .
Only my 2ct-philosophy...

apologies in advance

first to the board ops, if I post this in the wrong area, and secondly to the crybabies for what I am about to say...
Kick back off asking for a cooked rom with the latest and greatest rom... it's nice looking and all but if you aren't gonna cook one yourself then give it a
rest.
End rant...
www.prisonplanet.com

Dr.Gonz0 said:
first to the board ops, if I post this in the wrong area, and secondly to the crybabies for what I am about to say...
Kick back off asking for a cooked rom with the latest and greatest rom... it's nice looking and all but if you aren't gonna cook one yourself then give it a
rest.
End rant...
www.prisonplanet.com
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Apologies ahead of time for my rant.
Where do you get off saying that people shouldn't have the right to request in the very least, the latest ROM. Understandably though, the greatest ROM will always be based on the user's opinion. And if everyone just followed your advice and cooked one themselves and gave it a rest, where would the current ROM cooks be in this world? You would essentially put us out of a job if you had your way. Heres the way I see it though, since I do understand where your point is coming from. Cooking takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and a lot of understanding. Now given that not everyone on these threads has enough time on their hands, they need someone to create a ROM for them. Possibly to a level that they couldn't cook themselves at their present state. Just because they don't have all of the time necessary to cook their ROM doesn't mean that they should be punished by suffering with a stock ROM (especially the T-mo one, ). So that being said: I, as a cook, need to know what people want in order for me to make the best ROM that I can make. And to me, the best ROM will always be the one that makes people happy and content.
End of rant.

hehe did i strike a nerve or something? last time i checked i've got a thing called free speech (refer to the 1st amendment of the US Constitution) i'm not saying that everyone should cook their own roms. I am saying that ppl should stop buggin the cooks for the latest rom. I don't have the patience or time to cook my own and I am not going to bug the cooks for a rom... geez
oh yea and i was meaning the latest build of wm 6.5, been seeing allot of requests on the boards for "when is a rom with that build gonna be released" I am addressing those ppl

Dr.Gonz0 said:
hehe did i strike a nerve or something? last time i checked i've got a thing called free speech (refer to the 1st amendment of the US Constitution) i'm not saying that everyone should cook their own roms. I am saying that ppl should stop buggin the cooks for the latest rom. I don't have the patience or time to cook my own and I am not going to bug the cooks for a rom... geez
oh yea and i was meaning the latest build of wm 6.5, been seeing allot of requests on the boards for "when is a rom with that build gonna be released" I am addressing those ppl
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You do have a right to free speech, however, I haven't been bugged by any such questions. Weird. Thus far I only saw one thread asking that. And i posted a reply. I will be creating FingerMe Prototype Series which will be a base ROM of some of the latest builds. 23031 should be up tonight, 23034 I am still working on.

Dr.Gonz0 said:
hehe did i strike a nerve or something? last time i checked i've got a thing called free speech (refer to the 1st amendment of the US Constitution) i'm not saying that everyone should cook their own roms. I am saying that ppl should stop buggin the cooks for the latest rom. I don't have the patience or time to cook my own and I am not going to bug the cooks for a rom... geez
oh yea and i was meaning the latest build of wm 6.5, been seeing allot of requests on the boards for "when is a rom with that build gonna be released" I am addressing those ppl
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I agree that people usually treat the cooks as if they're working FOR them. No one gets paid to do stuff on XDA. People are always like....Tell me how to fix that, or, do this for me, or give me a link for this...
People need to realize that we DON'T work here. We just help. We're glad to help, but, we really appreaciate it if you do your own searching and find things yourself. Then, after some decent searching, if you don't find anything, please ask us.
But don't feel threatened, Dr. Gonz, say what you want. Yet, people will still expect XDA members to do everything for them, lol. You can't break that habbit.
I've gotta say, though, the Herald forums are pretty decent. Most people here try to do things for themselves, instead of just asking, and I like that.
I was always one that would just read XDA, I never used to post. Then, after a long time of reading, I gained experience, and started posting. That has worked well for me. It's always best to read first.
But everyone, just remember that no one works here. We're here to help, but we're not obliged to help anyone. If you ask nicely enough, we'll try to help you out. But try to read for things, too.

I agree with the cooks. The only reason why I replied to that thread like I did was cause I didn't like the way he was asking...like he thought that it was his right or something to get the newest build. Theres a big difference in "hey, any chance we can get build XXXXX anytime soon?", and "when is build XXXXX coming out, cause I want it like right now.". Anyways enough soapbox from me, thats just my opinion.

Dr.Gonz0 said:
hehe did i strike a nerve or something? last time i checked i've got a thing called free speech (refer to the 1st amendment of the US Constitution) i'm not saying that everyone should cook their own roms. I am saying that ppl should stop buggin the cooks for the latest rom. I don't have the patience or time to cook my own and I am not going to bug the cooks for a rom... geez
oh yea and i was meaning the latest build of wm 6.5, been seeing allot of requests on the boards for "when is a rom with that build gonna be released" I am addressing those ppl
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You certainly are free to speak your mind.
As does anyone responding to you.
Apparently you get huffy puffy if someone dares to disagree with your omniscience.
If I may be frank, I read about two sentences of your post before concluding that your opinion doesn't matter.

dumpydooby said:
You certainly are free to speak your mind.
As does anyone responding to you.
Apparently you get huffy puffy if someone dares to disagree with your omniscience.
If I may be frank, I read about two sentences of your post before concluding that your opinion doesn't matter.
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I think it was apreincher that got "huffy puffy".

First of all I just want to say that I always respect the rom cooks just like I respect a real cook in a restaurant. If I may quote the movie Waiting, "Don't f**k with people that serve your food."
There will always be dumbass noobs that are here for the instant gratification, that will only change if XDA becomes invite only, which isn't a bad idea. While I agree that nobody "works" here, on the other side of the same coin, nobody is forced to stay here and serve either. If you are fed up with the demands of users, don't complain about it, just don't log on. If you don't like what's on tv, do you complain to the cable company? No, you change the channel. But honestly, it is a community here. You don't have to like your neighbors, but you could at least tolerate them. To clarify, I'm by no means on a high horse here. I've had my moments of weakness, where I lost my patience. I think ace has been the one to say chill out a couple times lol. But seriously, there needs to be some humility around here, especially from people like the OP.

tonyc0642 said:
First of all I just want to say that I always respect the rom cooks just like I respect a real cook in a restaurant. If I may quote the movie Waiting, "Don't f**k with people that serve your food."
There will always be dumbass noobs that are here for the instant gratification, that will only change if XDA becomes invite only, which isn't a bad idea. While I agree that nobody "works" here, on the other side of the same coin, nobody is forced to stay here and serve either. If you are fed up with the demands of users, don't complain about it, just don't log on. If you don't like what's on tv, do you complain to the cable company? No, you change the channel. But honestly, it is a community here. You don't have to like your neighbors, but you could at least tolerate them.
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I have to agree with you. I like people requesting things, because some things are really great ideas that I may have never thought of including on my own. I'm not all knowing, I don't know everything everyone wants. So to help serve you better, I need input. So new people reading this thread, please don't be scared to request something of me. I wont always say yes, but it's better than not trying at all.

apreichner said:
I have to agree with you. I like people requesting things, because some things are really great ideas that I may have never thought of including on my own. I'm not all knowing, I don't know everything everyone wants. So to help serve you better, I need input. So new people reading this thread, please don't be scared to request something of me. I wont always say yes, but it's better than not trying at all.
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Some things I see people doing, though (this is on the TP2 forums), is that people say..."Why are my keyboard symbols not working???".
Ok, that's a valid question...but then, when you visit The Wingster for that ROM, you notice, oh hey, there's some bolded red text, maybe that's important?
People overlooking the obvious things like that can REALLY get chefs unhappy. I usually just link them to an obvious page like that, but other chefs will get upset.
Now, requests for features in ROM's, those are a little different. You can ask for requests, just don't make them like...I want (5,000 apps)...or I want (this certain app that maybe 1/20 people use)....But, there are some cool requests that maybe the chef didn't know about, or just forgot. So, try to be reasonable with requests.
And back to the obvious things that people overlook, just try to read a bit, that's all. If you didn't see anything quickly on the first page, then yes, you can go ahead and post, asking your question. Hopefully, the chef, or someone else on the forums will answer you. They will probably also remind you to read better if it was on the first page or something.
Basically, to prevent yourself from getting flammed, you gotta read the first page of the ROM a bit, and then, if your question still isn't answered, read a few of the last posts, and then post your question.
And keep requests reasonable. Try to request things that everyone could benefit from. If it's something that the chef doesn't wanna do, they will probably just ignore it, so don't go posting it again, unless you think it's a brilliant idea, lol.
Remember the golden rule...treat others the way you would like to be treated.

ace10134 said:
Some things I see people doing, though (this is on the TP2 forums), is that people say..."Why are my keyboard symbols not working???".
Ok, that's a valid question...but then, when you visit The Wingster for that ROM, you notice, oh hey, there's some bolded red text, maybe that's important?
People overlooking the obvious things like that can REALLY get chefs unhappy. I usually just link them to an obvious page like that, but other chefs will get upset.
Now, requests for features in ROM's, those are a little different. You can ask for requests, just don't make them like...I want (5,000 apps)...or I want (this certain app that maybe 1/20 people use)....But, there are some cool requests that maybe the chef didn't know about, or just forgot. So, try to be reasonable with requests.
And back to the obvious things that people overlook, just try to read a bit, that's all. If you didn't see anything quickly on the first page, then yes, you can go ahead and post, asking your question. Hopefully, the chef, or someone else on the forums will answer you. They will probably also remind you to read better if it was on the first page or something.
Basically, to prevent yourself from getting flammed, you gotta read the first page of the ROM a bit, and then, if your question still isn't answered, read a few of the last posts, and then post your question.
And keep requests reasonable. Try to request things that everyone could benefit from. If it's something that the chef doesn't wanna do, they will probably just ignore it, so don't go posting it again, unless you think it's a brilliant idea, lol.
Remember the golden rule...treat others the way you would like to be treated.
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That's exactly my point. The original poster to this thread was saying that people shouldn't ask when a new build for the herald will be released. Unfortunately, you can't find the answer to that anywhere on the forum. So they have to ask in order to get an answer.

So long story short, when you're making requests from a cook, choose your words carefully and be sure and tell them how much you appreciate thier work, even donate if you can. Otherwise, THIS can happen. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448839

A request to all the devs here, about including info in first post.

This NOT ment to be *****ing, I AM grateful for all the great work being done, But i do WISH every single dev could include this in their first post in their ROMs thread:
-What the ROM is based on (HTC framework, ADP, ADP with Sense from Dream, Sense from Hero etc.)
->What works (or not) of:
* LED
* bluetooth
These are common problems with HERO ROMs, and if every dev posted this info, it would be great. For me non-LED= not usable, and for some periods of time (ie. when I'm driving much), so is no BT
->Included apps.
*Especially important are sms-spamming apps such as myfaves - coud be critical to know about.
->recommended compache settings, swapiness etc, what is used in ROM as standard for these values.
We see every Hero-thread filling up with questions about BT, LED, what HERO-version, and what framework, and whatnot. Taking 2mins to post this info could help save so much time,and so much spam/question in the ROM thread.
Apps added/removed and the other stuff is also higly relevant to non-HERO roms.
Again, this is constructive criticism aka a humble suggestion, not an angry demand from some jerk with e-penile problems. (Or so I'd like to believe, at least.)
If anyone has any suggestion as to what other info you would like to see in a ROM announcement? Post it here, maybe we can "help" the devs out by making a complete template we would like them to follow. Input from devs highly appreciated too, ofc.
I know there are toher things that shoul also be listed, such as SPL and radio required etc., although I believe almost everyone includes it. Most devs include most of the items on the list too, but many do not include all of it.
Also, I am sorry for posting this in this category, but this is where the ROMs are posted and the devs can see it.
I hope this thread has its place here. Different people are lokking for different things, and both the user and devs benefit from the user knowing what they get. (It would hopefully limit the number of "spam" questions from users if the first post contained all this information, we know many people are afraid of the search button. Also, it would be easier to wield the ban hammer on people whoe doesn't even bother to look at the simple list in the first post, and waste other peoples time.)
If a dev included enough information, ROM lists with information abut different ROMs would also be much easier to maintain for the good people making them.

It may make things more organized, but it means devs have to update the list, and pay less attwntion to -actual ROM development.
And in my opinion, a little trial and error never hurt anyone.

TermyJW said:
It may make things more organized, but it means devs have to update the list, and pay less attwntion to -actual ROM development.
And in my opinion, a little trial and error never hurt anyone.
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This is TRUE!
I so hope that Hero ROM's on donut are much more snappier! I'm addicted, I want a ROM to use for a few months! Hehe.

Yeah, it would be nice if there was a template developers could follow for posting. It would make thing's so much smoother.
Possibly in the title of the post have;
[ROM] [SENSE] "Title Here"
[ROM] [PULSE] "Title Here"
[ROM] [MOTOBLUR] "Title Here"
[ROM] [1.6] "Title Here"
[ROM] [1.5] "Title Here"

I agree with the OP there are times where i i can't flash 5 different ROMs in a day and i skip over some because of lack of info and screenshots. Maybe the community can build a template that the ROM devs can use?

damnitpud said:
I agree with the OP there are times where i i can't flash 5 different ROMs in a day and i skip over some because of lack of info and screenshots. Maybe the community can build a template that the ROM devs can use?
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Are you thinking about getting back into making themes?

not gonna happen

jubeh said:
not gonna happen
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word im too lazy

they already spend there time developing the roms, i dont think they have the time to make the "proper layout"

Binary100100 said:
Are you thinking about getting back into making themes?
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I have been playing around with some images, made changes for my own phone but haven't done much else. I did just get laid off from my job so if i go the unemployment route you will definitely see me more in these forums. If i can't find a job soon i plan on getting into Java programming(i have a few app ideas) and possibly making my own ROMs. But we have to see where the job market takes me.
To stay on topic, the devs do spend a lot of time dev'n and having a template in a txt file would make posting easier for them. I have made a few threads and i can tell you making a layout for a post isn't that easy and is not much fun. If we can make an empty template that they only have to fill in their info...they would be doing the same amount of work on the post, just easier cause its all laid out for them.
We would need a sticky for it and have the devs vote on it or something.

That's a great idea it would be so much easier plus people won't be trashing threads with dumb ass questions is this for G1? Does this work or does it still do that and so on....
I mean before they upload the Rom they know most of the bugs so just saying known issues r these and that would help and just knowing what's new in the release doesn't help just confuses most of the noobs here...I'm one of them.
A little off topic but I'm a recruiting officer in a PC gaming community and I review clan applications, there were times when main application was down so I just made a sticky Thread with a template of the application to fill up and post it as a new thread
I mean look all of the devs pretty much do that already anyhow, every thread they make look exactly as the other 1 we just need a clean template that they all could use and just made it as a sticky thread and lock it so every1 could use it.

Zarboz said:
word im too lazy
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If you're making a ROM and posting it on xda, you obviously want other people to use it.
If the first post is sloppy and not informative or up to date. Less people will use your ROM. Thus, less people will test it. Therefore, you won't be able to figure out the bugs. If you're sloppy with info, you'll lose, not us.
Something that should be standard:
A proper title like suggested earlier such as [ROM] [1.6 - Pulse] [******]
(none of that [ROM] ***MghtyMax 1.9.1*** "WHAT A FEELING!" stuff....Sorry, but it's just plain horrible.)
Another thing should be a list of features, things that work, things that don't.
Screenshots are also very nice and descriptive. A lot of new users might not know what Pulse, Hero, etc. looks like.
If you take the time to work on a ROM, you have the time to work on a nice looking first post. Don't half ass your work. It makes you look unprofessional.

I agree with the first poster, also MD5 hashes would be nice.

As damnitpud mentions, this would probably make it easier for devs, not harder. This is about *not* forccing them to make the proper layout themselves, but serve as a pre-made basis for them to fill in. In ready made bb-code ofc.
Since the mighty max-rom was brought up, this is noe ROM i did not download and flash immedeatly beacause I couldn't find info about BT working or not. Also would like to know if it were the SENSE from Dream or Hero. And some other details.
As I have time to sit down and flash my phone maybe two days a week, tops, I would like to know what I want to try beforehand. I also don't want to read four hundred post with questions that sometimes are answered in the first post, sometimes in the thread, sometimes not at all. But IF they had been answered in first post - and especially if it were in standard list that all/most devs used, it would be hard to miss it, and save a lot of stupid and/or lazy people nagging.
md5 hashes is absolutely something that should be on such a list, ohnoezmahfone. That is certainly lacking, and quite important for people with a good-for-nothing-ISP or net by 3G modem etc.

Someone make up a template. There will always be someone who will volunteer to do it for the developer.

All great ideas.
Especially for the sake of SEARCH.
Example:
I enter a search for "bluetooth working hero" and up pops 4000 unhelpful results most where 1000 noobs are asking if it works or not without doing the proper research in the prior posts.
An all informative 1st post would reduce this and the unnecessary flaming that follows (also part of results)
Also, it would also be real nice if everyone keep their personal lives to themselves.
Noone cares if your "flashing [other irrelavant ROM] now because BT aint working for Hero yet. This also shows up in results.
If I want you to kno whats on my device, i'll put it in my sig
I know i just made "BT working Hero" one more result longer [4001] but i had to vent. Sometimes searching can be very annoying and cumbersome.
Less results means less hassle for devs and users.
Once again, great ideas

ROM post template suggestion

There seems to be a lot of clutter with new ROM postings that results in several pages of questions. I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of formality to alleviate some of the headaches, questions, and bricks out there. ROM developers should also make sure to include MD5 Sums with all releases.
Here is my suggestion, bold items should be a requirement.
Feel free to critique!
Release Name: Fuzzy Nipples
Release Version: 1.0
MD5 Sum: f5135a878c705215f4012786e4261cfe
Credits: Snoop Dog, Michael Moore, Wienerschnitzel Hot Dogs
Base Firmware: 1.6 Donut
Radio Required: Newest [Link]
SPL Required: Sapphire Danger [Link]
Partition Layout: Fat/ext3/linux-swap (Swap: 128MB)
Wipe Required: Yes - no exceptions
Special instructions: Contact Sync fix: Skip Google sign in, sign into the Android Market first!
Download: [Direct] [Mirror]
Like it as it is? Here is a copy/paste template:
Release Name:
Release Version:
MD5 Sum:
Credits:
Base Firmware:
Radio Required:
SPL Required:
Partition Layout:
Wipe Required:
Special instructions:
Download:

I have already suggested something like this, as have many others. Problem is....And this is the response from all the newcomer "devs".
"I'm too lazy to waste my time on making the rom thread look nice, I got more important things to do, blah blah blah..."
Well, if you're too lazy to create an organized and well thought out thread for your ROM...then you really shouldn't be making a ROM in the first place. It's half assed.
But anyway, more power to you for suggesting this. I agree.

there have been a few threads like this. I love the fact that it works over in WinMo sides of the forum. Makes it so easy to read things and see what is new, what works/doesnt. I agree it would be a big help to many, but I doubt it will happen. Too many "devs" arent going to want to change their stuff simply because they wont want to.

Not gonna happen

I agree 1000%.......But I know it's not gonna happen.

jubeh said:
Not gonna happen
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If it's not gonna happen, maybe a mod should take the initiative to purge the threads of the ones who don't take the time to do it. I agree with the main points here... things are far too disorganized in ways.
I get it, seriously... I'm a developer, and I'd rather develop, and not take the time to write well-thought-out comments and how-tos (but I know I should).

binarybulge said:
If it's not gonna happen, maybe a mod should take the initiative to purge the threads of the ones who don't take the time to do it. I agree with the main points here... things are far too disorganized in ways.
I get it, seriously... I'm a developer, and I'd rather develop, and not take the time to write well-thought-out comments and how-tos (but I know I should).
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But why does this have to be seen as a "well-thought-out" comment? Truth is, it takes 30 seconds to fill out and will prevent the dev from answering 15 questions within 10 pages. Truth is, most devs spend an elaborate amount of time on their post to make it look pretty, why not spend 30 seconds to make it functional also?
I cant tell you how many times I am scared to flash because I dont know if the ROM is going to write an unsupported radio version to the SPL I have installed.

jamesrdorn said:
But why does this have to be seen as a "well-thought-out" comment? Truth is, it takes 30 seconds to fill out and will prevent the dev from answering 15 questions within 10 pages. Truth is, most devs spend an elaborate amount of time on their post to make it look pretty, why not spend 30 seconds to make it functional also?
I cant tell you how many times I am scared to flash because I dont know if the ROM is going to write an unsupported radio version to the SPL I have installed.
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No, that's not what I was saying. I was saying as a developer, I know what it's like to not want to do any of the tedious documentation that comes along with a project. We have an aversion to it. I totally agree with you, a lot of people should tone down their marketing efforts and tone up the helpful information.

I can only speak for myself here, but I couldn't give a flying **** about people too stupid to make my roms work. I create the roms for myself and post them here for people that might like to use them. I'm not interested in holding anyone's hand and I couldn't care less about people asking the same old questions every day. There seems to be a spectacular misunderstanding of the dynamic between people posting roms and people posting idiotic questions about them.. We're doing you a favour by uploading them - if you don't like it or don't understand it, make your own.
I'm about done with this forum tbh, it's nothing but pointless questions, second hand misinformation and ungrateful morons these days. I'll keep my work to myself in future.

goldenarmZ said:
I can only speak for myself here, but I couldn't give a flying **** about people too stupid to make my roms work. I create the roms for myself and post them here for people that might like to use them. I'm not interested in holding anyone's hand and I couldn't care less about people asking the same old questions every day. There seems to be a spectacular misunderstanding of the dynamic between people posting roms and people posting idiotic questions about them.. We're doing you a favour by uploading them - if you don't like it or don't understand it, make your own.
I'm about done with this forum tbh, it's nothing but pointless questions, second hand misinformation and ungrateful morons these days. I'll keep my work to myself in future.
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Don't let the door hit ya. -1 drama queen.

binarybulge said:
Don't let the door hit ya. -1 drama queen.
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Theres's no drama in my post, just exasperation. I've been with this site for a long time but the g1 section has nosedived beyond recovery. Things can become too popular for their own good.

goldenarmZ said:
Theres's no drama in my post, just exasperation. I've been with this site for a long time but the g1 section has nosedived beyond recovery. Things can become too popular for their own good.
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Well I do agree with you there. Extreme popularity has killed many a good thing. It's good to see people are trying to fix things one way or another though. For better or worse, most of us share a passion here.

goldenarmZ said:
I can only speak for myself here, but I couldn't give a flying **** about people too stupid to make my roms work. I create the roms for myself and post them here for people that might like to use them. I'm not interested in holding anyone's hand and I couldn't care less about people asking the same old questions every day. There seems to be a spectacular misunderstanding of the dynamic between people posting roms and people posting idiotic questions about them.. We're doing you a favour by uploading them - if you don't like it or don't understand it, make your own.
I'm about done with this forum tbh, it's nothing but pointless questions, second hand misinformation and ungrateful morons these days. I'll keep my work to myself in future.
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agreed... when i first started posting as a member here (was a long time follower at first, oh the good ole days of the dash) it seemed that there was some respect. Haykuro, Cyanogen, Twisted, and CC were all the top back then. Now we have about 10 new "ROM"s each week and with bag full of devs posting them. I am not knocking what anyone does here, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, but some people should be deving and DEFINITELY should be posting a ROM with "post feedback please!" as the only info within the ROM post.
While a forum cleaning is greatly needed, this type of "template" will not happen. Not unless it goes to a mod first who has to input the information into the post once the link is provided.

HMMMM i wonder where JesusFreak and Koush and all the original's fall into your list???

palosjr said:
there have been a few threads like this. I love the fact that it works over in WinMo sides of the forum. Makes it so easy to read things and see what is new, what works/doesnt. I agree it would be a big help to many, but I doubt it will happen. Too many "devs" arent going to want to change their stuff simply because they wont want to.
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Yeah, coming here from the Kaiser, it has been a culture shock trying to figure this and that out about what a ROM has and doesn't have. I know over in that forum, on more than one occassion a thread was locked/deleted because they didn't include the info in their post.
But on a WinMo device, you have a very real chance of bricking your phone every single time you flash if you don't have the right info because it is a fresh .img everytime.