Related
Well this is what I have been deciding for sometime now.
And here is my verdict:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=48608
I think it's worth it. Orange now have upgrade stock and I've ordered my M600 today. My M500 will probably appear on eBay in the next few days.
Someone else in our office has just got an M600 having upgraded from the M500 and he really likes it - and so do I. Since I'm due for a free upgrade I thought - what the heck...go for it. 8)
I never had S100 but I still have my old 9090. I think you should go for it. The new WM5 is faster, cleaner and more stable (no more soft reset). And not being worried about losing everything when the battery dies. As for the processor, it is right, the S200 is a bit slower, you’ll feel it while playing movies with tcpmp. But using an overclocking app. Will fix it.
if you encode your video correctly, eg in 320x240 res, video playback is no problem whatsoever without overclocking
Indeed!
The gadget it nice, small, stylish black (at least are the XDA Neos), definitely better than the Wizard, and has no problems playing movies without overclocking if encoded with PocketDVDStudio.
It is THE phone!
P.S. The Start and OK/Close buttons are life-savers 8)
I've now upgraded and it was definitely worth it. 8)
When playing movies shot with my Canon Ixus @ 320x240 the Charmer stutters and the S100 does not.
Why would I want to 'upgrade' to something that I need to 'overclock' to get to the same speed that I have already ?
I think I will wait till the next version !
Hopefully they will have sorted it by then.
I would just upgrade again when the next model is out :lol:
gregory_marsh said:
Why would I want to 'upgrade' to something that I need to 'overclock' to get to the same speed that I have already ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it is something like this... Let's say I have a Pentiun III (256MB) with Windows 98SE(WM2003SE Device) and I upgrade it to WinXP (WM2005 Device) .... I believe I WILL have to overclock to have same performance speed when let's say opening a document, or starting a game.
I don't know but i believe it is WM5 that is slowing the device down. I guess that's why even if were in 2006 there are still computers running Windows 98. So i guess you are right. If you don't need (yet)the advantages that WM5 brings then you could wait for the next generation Processors so that it will run "at par" as the S200.
I came from a h6340 (OMAP 200Mhz WM2003) to the Universal (Intel 520Mhz WM5) and no matter how you look at it, the Universal is so much faster than the HP h6340.
Oh, BTW... out from the box, the universal was "kinda" slow and I would classify it as a little non-responsive when opening a lot of programs at same time. Now though after a few ROM updates, everything is running quite quick.
First of all, no need to overclock. The processors arent from the same vendor, so dont look too much at the "Mhz".
I had a S100, and now got a 200, the 200s processor is definetely Not worse than the S100.
In my opinion, its worth it! The one thing I miss on my S200, is Project VCABT, I really hope these talented guys will fix it asap
montana said:
First of all, no need to overclock. The processors arent from the same vendor, so dont look too much at the "Mhz".
I had a S100, and now got a 200, the 200s processor is definetely Not worse than the S100.
In my opinion, its worth it! The one thing I miss on my S200, is Project VCABT, I really hope these talented guys will fix it asap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some items might be a matter of taste, but some are critical.
- The machine IS slower than an JAM
- It hangs, at least so often as the JAM, or more frequently should I say.
- I had to hard reset the first day of usage: A clock alarm remained somehow turned on and sounding every few minutes. No way to disconnect the thing..... even after a Soft Reset
- Battery life is shorter.... (It may be my unit, but it's way shorter than my JAM one year old one....)
- BT worries remain the same as in older models (JAM, etc)
- Lots of Apps simply don't load or don't work
- It's a more radical change than XP was, and less documented and user-conscious than it should.
- Phone caller ID is worse. Pictures are unreadable on screen. No options.
- Phone directional keys don't work as expected.
- ¡Notes on contacts are limited in size!
- flimsy pen
Really, very disappointed.... :evil:
On the plus side: WIFI, look, screen, more ergonomics for one hand use... not enough
montana said:
First of all, no need to overclock. The processors arent from the same vendor, so dont look too much at the "Mhz".
I had a S100, and now got a 200, the 200s processor is definetely Not worse than the S100.
In my opinion, its worth it! The one thing I miss on my S200, is Project VCABT, I really hope these talented guys will fix it asap
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some items might be a matter of taste, but some are critical.
- The machine IS slower than an JAM
- It hangs, at least so often as the JAM, or more frequently should I say.
- I had to hard reset the first day of usage: A clock alarm remained somehow turned on and sounding every few minutes. No way to disconnect the thing..... even after a Soft Reset
- Battery life is shorter.... (It may be my unit, but it's way shorter than my JAM one year old one....)
- BT worries remain the same as in older models (JAM, etc)
- Lots of Apps simply don't load or don't work
- It's a more radical change than XP was, and less documented and user-conscious than it should.
- Phone caller ID is worse. Pictures are unreadable on screen. No options.
- Phone directional keys don't work as expected.
- ¡Notes on contacts are limited in size!
- flimsy pen
Really, very disappointed.... :evil:
On the plus side: WIFI, look, screen, more ergonomics for one hand use... not enough
Looking Glass said:
Some items might be a matter of taste, but some are critical.
- The machine IS slower than an JAM
- It hangs, at least so often as the JAM, or more frequently should I say.
- I had to hard reset the first day of usage: A clock alarm remained somehow turned on and sounding every few minutes. No way to disconnect the thing..... even after a Soft Reset
- Battery life is shorter.... (It may be my unit, but it's way shorter than my JAM one year old one....)
- BT worries remain the same as in older models (JAM, etc)
- Lots of Apps simply don't load or don't work
.....
- flimsy pen
Really, very disappointed.... :evil:
On the plus side: WIFI, look, screen, more ergonomics for one hand use... not enough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you might need to return your unit and get a replacement. Something must be wrong with your unit, or might because of some programs you installed on it?
I had a XDA Neo (same as S200) with JAMin WWE ROM for more than 2 month. The XDA Neo runs very fast and smooth. I never got any problem with it. I normally run multiple programs (2-5) at the same time. For example, media player to listen to mp3s and watch ebooks, and also have the dictionary (Lexisgoo 2.0) running. I never had complaints about the speed. The OMAP CPU is defferent than Xscale, you can not compare them by MHz.
I did not reset the unit in more than one week. The unit never (or at least rarely) hangs. Extremely stable. So, I guess you must installed some program not very compatible with your unit. I have installed more than 20 programs on it, but of course, I tested more than probably 40 programs in my first month after I got this unit, and deleted all the other programs which I believed it made the unit unstable.
I am also pretty satisfied with the battery life. It can last about one week (or at least 4-5 days) for regular use, if I do not use it for long time (more than 30-60 minutes talk) chat on the phone.
The BT is very stable. I use it to connect to my car (I have blue tooth system in my Prius), and it worked beautifully. But to save the battery, I normally turn the BT off when I get off the car.
Sometimes, I guess, you really need to test all the programs you installed. A lot of programs may not work right for WM5, and I also found that some programs it actually may work for WM5 (according to online info or reviews), but it did cause problems on my unit, and made the unit not very stable. You have to spend sometime to figure out. After you done this, you can always use the same programs on it, just keep updating when new version coming out. That is what I did for all my PDA phones.
Hope it helps.
By the way, I am using the overlocking now (252 MHz), and the unit runs even more faster and stable.
Hi!
I agree that no comparison is good based on Mhz, I know about it, but things are slower. Example: after a soft reset, (Several times a day) just accesing a contact whose name begins with "Z" in a 3000+ contact list, takes .... almost 20 seconds!
Loading TomTom 5? some 30 seconds before getting back the control of the thing. Never mind of using the TT5 if you receive an incoming call while tt5 loads..... it will be gone! An I have more than 39 Mb free memory!
Screens redraws that you can "see" almost by the pixel, etc. And I have just 6 apps loaded, tt5, Check Point, Pocket Earth, and a couple of games, none of then running altogether, but for the tt5-check point combo.
I know I can not return my unit for servicing just based on those problems.
:evil: :evil: :evil:
Or could I?
Is eny different between this two phone? I read that have many problems with orbit2, is the same with Touch cruise, same problems? Now i have o2 orbit and thinking to buy orbit2 or cruise, but i m little sceptical, becouse of problems..
Thanke you!
Nobody knows?
Is any test between these to phones on net?
Thanks!
IMHO the o2 has a better form factor...it's more rounded...
but other than that, i'm pretty sure its 100% the same exact hardware on the inside...and as a touch cruise owner, i can tell you it's a lag ridden slow ass POS..return it while u still can, cause drivers aren't coming any time soon
surgex0 said:
i can tell you it's a lag ridden slow ass POS..return it while u still can, cause drivers aren't coming any time soon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't take that for gospel. I have owned many PPC's going back to 2000 and i can tell you from my experience, the TC performs just fine in day-to-day operation. As a matter of fact, it performs much better than my last 2 devices, a Treo 750 and the KJAM.
1. Wi-Fi
2. BT
3. Front earphone
4. Radio
5. Bad painting
6. Shutting down suddenly
Are these problems have only orbit2 or both?
o2orbit said:
1. Wi-Fi
2. BT
3. Front earphone
4. Radio
5. Bad painting
6. Shutting down suddenly
Are these problems have only orbit2 or both?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no such "problems" with my TC. However, if you want to nitpick, the FM antenna is not very strong so there can be interference if used in a place like a metropolitan city.
Other than that, I have not had any problems.
4.) bad painting
all the time...all you have to do is be viewing a web site in whatever browser and press the phone key. Depending on what other applications you have open, and how much ram you are using, it can take up to 1-5 seconds to fully "paint" the dialpad on the screen, piece by piece.
If you are scrolling through anything, lets say the programs menu, or a website, the screen flickers, and lags.
I can remember back about 15 years ago, to my first desktop PC...it was a pentium 133 MHZ, with an ATI 3d card that had 8MB of ram I believe, and it ran windows 3.11 for workgroups, and then windows 95.
Lets just say even that comp (if it were still put together) could out do the touch cruise graphics wise.
As for the other problems you are describing, I have not had any issues with those. For the most part, it's just the graphics \ user interface stuff and lack of proper video drivers.
The actual radio hardware is fine.
If i were you, I would wait until all the issues are worked out before you spend alot of money on a handheld..unless you really need it. I'm actually thinking of selling my touch cruise and getting an Atom V.
both are same inside, but i'm on my 3rd O2 Orbit 2 due to cosmetics, i get the feeling the new 'stylised' case for the Orbit 2 is rushed, as all 3 have gaps, off centre screen and now my 3rd one the GPS plug keeps falling out! lol
i'd go for the original 'design' as most complaints i've heard have been about O2 version - BUT just cosmetics, not hardware.
i really can't be bothered to send this back, but will think twice about what i upgrade to next :/
or a website, the screen flickers, and lags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're using PIE, there is a fix for that. After applying the fix, scrolling is just fine.
I also have no scrolling issues using Netfront 3.5.
cosmetics i agree with that.
if you look in the accessories thread, there are multiple posts about the top screen being crooked and not glued onto the other screen, hearing snap backs when tapping on or around the corners.
Also I agree that the micro-sd hatch is very poorly designed, also along with the GPS plug.
Just a thought, that keeps recurring though my mind...why didn't they put more time and thought into these devices, when they cost upwards of $1000.
Unless of course, they made it this way, cosmetics and software, purposely...
But that's just me...there are some people who don't seem to have a problem with the way this device performs.
I think though, that I'm being over critical, because all of the previous HTC devices I have used, have never had problems that have even come close to this, and also, they didn't cost nearly as much. I just expected so much more from the TC.
o2orbit said:
1. Wi-Fi
2. BT
3. Front earphone
4. Radio
5. Bad painting
6. Shutting down suddenly
Are these problems have only orbit2 or both?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the TC
1) Wi-fi is fine
2) Only used BT to transfer files between laptop and phone, works fine.
3) No problem with earphone
4) not sure, the actual radio ROM (reception, etc) or FM Radio. 1st one is fine, 2nd one reception can suck.
5) Sux donkey balls. See the post about dialer skin lag. very true.
6) Never happened.
The device is fine overall with day to day use. but sometimes stuff just won't freakin work or will lag. every once in awhile my GPS will take forever to lock or when it does it will be off by a bit. sometimes windows live mail won't send/receive when i want it to. other times i feel the device just can't handle multiple things at the same time. opening audio manager when you have several hundred music files takes about 5-10 secs. then when listening to music while typing an sms, you will feel some lag while typing as opposed to typing with no music playing.
I have an Orbit 2 ...build wise its fantastic. Before I bought it, I was going to buy the iphone, the salesman in the O2 shop gave me a demo on the iphone's rigidity and build quality, he held the iphone flat in his palm with the screen up and slammed it down hard onto a wooden desk from a height of approx 1 metre....it looked very impressive...when I got my Orbit 2 I did the same.....not even a scratch....
Also thought I would comment on BT issues..since I failed to mention it in my previous post
Handsfree works great.
I have a handsfree system in my automobile, and I have a motorola HS850 as well.
No problems whatsoever.
Also, activesync works great over BT, so does internet sharing using the PAN.
File transfer takes a long time, but that is to be expected, since BT data transfer rates aren't as good as USB.
A2DP however, sucks the big one.
I've tried 5 different a2dp devices\headsets...
It's all lag ridden, staticy at times, and sometiems it just plain stops and skips for 5-20 seconds.
It seems like whenever you use a2dp it lags the whole friggen device as well..
I emailed HTC about this and their response was less than helpful.
They gave me a bunch of a2dp headset models that they have "tested"
and then told me that just because they were tested doesn't mean they are fully functional without issues.
I tried to tell them that it wasn't the headsets and it was the device itself, but they didn't seem to listen to what I had to say.
Never tried a2dp, but i don't have a hard time seeing this happening with this device. just the kind of thing to be expected. and i wanted to have stereo bluetooth to listen to music, etc. is it really that bad? guess i won't be trying that.
as far as build quality, it's good so far. except the loose volume switch on the side that rattles. kinda lame there. i've heard of the orbit2 jog dials falling off. there's another thread about that somewhere.
surgex0 said:
cosmetics i agree with that.
if you look in the accessories thread, there are multiple posts about the top screen being crooked and not glued onto the other screen, hearing snap backs when tapping on or around the corners.
Also I agree that the micro-sd hatch is very poorly designed, also along with the GPS plug.
Just a thought, that keeps recurring though my mind...why didn't they put more time and thought into these devices, when they cost upwards of $1000.
Unless of course, they made it this way, cosmetics and software, purposely...
But that's just me...there are some people who don't seem to have a problem with the way this device performs.
I think though, that I'm being over critical, because all of the previous HTC devices I have used, have never had problems that have even come close to this, and also, they didn't cost nearly as much. I just expected so much more from the TC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm one of the ones not having a problem with my TC. I agree the web using ie is slow but is also on every other wm device I've had. So I use opera mini.
Upwards of $1000?? Where the hell are you buying it anyway? That's a bit exagerated isn't it? I concur tho that phones are getting more and more expensive and the quality of build is not equal to cost. Actually my gf's t-mo go phone cost $40 and is seemingly indestructable.
surgex0 said:
A2DP however, sucks the big one.
I've tried 5 different a2dp devices\headsets...
It's all lag ridden, staticy at times, and sometiems it just plain stops and skips for 5-20 seconds.
It seems like whenever you use a2dp it lags the whole friggen device as well..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to have a lot of complaints. However, I can tell you that I have experienced no such lags as you mention using A2DP. I use a Moto S9 when I work out at the gym and no problems at all. I can even surf the web while using A2DP using Opera Mini or Mobile without issue. Keep in mind that I push multi-tasking on my devices.
I will say however, that using the S9's with the TC in NYC is crappy due to the weakness of the BT signal. I used to have the same issue with my Treo 750 using WM5 then when I upgraded to WM6 the issue seemed to lessen enough to the point where I didn't quite mind the "occasional" skip.
o2orbit said:
Is eny different between this two phone? I read that have many problems with orbit2, is the same with Touch cruise, same problems? Now i have o2 orbit and thinking to buy orbit2 or cruise, but i m little sceptical, becouse of problems..
Thanke you!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did they up the ram? Because 64mb is unaceptable. Causes freeze-ups and shut downs. Gotta have 128mb minimum.
JNGold said:
You seem to have a lot of complaints. However, I can tell you that I have experienced no such lags as you mention using A2DP. I use a Moto S9 when I work out at the gym and no problems at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm..I don't get it..
I tried those and they had the same problems as all the other ones I tried.
I tried them in my house, working out, airports, planes...no matter where i went they were the same. I dunno man :-\ I am having alot of bad luck lately...
And also, to comment about the price thing...the Sedna costs 1000 and the touch cruise is currently going for 700-800...I paid 850 for mine but i got it after one of the first shipments to the wholesaler. This is in the US though...I've heard these same exact phones cost like $50 in hong kong. Dunno if it's true but...search google checkout for the HTC Sedna, and see how much they cost.
$50 for a Cruise in HK??? no way. link?
surgex0 said:
Hm..I don't get it..
I tried those and they had the same problems as all the other ones I tried.
I tried them in my house, working out, airports, planes...no matter where i went they were the same. I dunno man :-\ I am having alot of bad luck lately...
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, surgex0, you might wanna do some investigation, b/c A2DP works perfectly for me also. No skipping, great quality, and I can multitask w/o a real slowdown in performance. I've used it with my Samsung A2DP headphones, my Sony A2DP input/output adapter for my home stereo, and random A2DP demo products in stores. No issues here... Maybe try other headphones, or if you are on a custom rom try the original rom.
...is SLOWER than my 2 Years old Dell Axim!
I've been running my Update for CorePlayer to V1.2.2 without any problems. But - i've running the YouTube Function, connecting over WLAN 54 MBits to the YouTube Empire...
There i'll be searching for some videos, thinking that anything has chanced with this new version - tapped on a video - waiting - watching about five seconds - and? NOTHING! Its like before, laggy, struggleing and unwatchable...
why this damn devices is not optimized? why is this expensive thing hardware not able to do, what a two or three year old pocket pc is running without any problems? why we must hack this device to get a piece of performance?
This device is the best, the nicest and the fully featured piece of hardware that i've ever had. i've been a pda junkie since the beginning of this with the crappy WIN CE2.1.
Since Win CE is mutch time gone and the devices gone faster and faster. The good old casio em500 running a 150 MHz MIPS CPU was fast - the well known iPAQ3660 was faster and much better in playing videos or something. Every change of hardware was a change that was useful. After that a MDA2 with a 400 MHz x-scale cpu was mine and it was faster than everything before. MDA Compact was faster, The Dell AXIM Series was fast like a rocket - but then XDA Orbit brakes me like a train crashing in a wall of steel. I thought i've been running this device with a handbrake or something.
The Orbit 2 is a little bit faster - but if there is no video driver the videos are laggy - and that is what i don't understand. Why HTC?!
1. The youtube function is still new to the CorePlayer (I mean the direct youtube support whith available configuration)
2. The lag is mostly because of a small buffer and/or a crappy net connection
3. Unless CorePlayer doesn't suck whith normal (320x240 24~25 FPS) videos, don't complain.
Yes, we know that the drivers are missing, that's nothing new. If you wan't to know the cause check my signature. We heard enough people complaining, and most of us tried to do something instead of (in this case very detailed) whining.
If you knew what to expect, then don't complain, it you didn't... maybe next time you'll check forums/reviews/youtube for more info before buying.
http://www.computerbase.de/news/con...ikation/2008/april/quake_3_ipod_touch_iphone/
Apple iPhone running Quake 3 smooth like a piece of butter in the sun...
as far as i know iphone got a 600Mhz arm cpu
and a whole different os structure so you cant
really mix it into a compare of polaris and an older dell pda
OpenGL32 said:
The Orbit 2 is a little bit faster - but if there is no video driver the videos are laggy - and that is what i don't understand. Why HTC?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We feel your pain buddy...
Or should I say, we felt your pain. We've got past that stage already, and have kind of accepted this crappy fact of life - that we've been bent over with a smile. I personally chose this device because there is nothing else to choose from!
On the other hand, HTC makes me really want to get an iPhone, even with its lack of any modern features - it is a device that just works (well, after you've jail-broke it).
OpenGL32 said:
...is SLOWER than my 2 Years old Dell Axim!
I've been running my Update for CorePlayer to V1.2.2 without any problems. But - i've running the YouTube Function, connecting over WLAN 54 MBits to the YouTube Empire...
There i'll be searching for some videos, thinking that anything has chanced with this new version - tapped on a video - waiting - watching about five seconds - and? NOTHING! Its like before, laggy, struggleing and unwatchable...
why this damn devices is not optimized? why is this expensive thing hardware not able to do, what a two or three year old pocket pc is running without any problems? why we must hack this device to get a piece of performance?
This device is the best, the nicest and the fully featured piece of hardware that i've ever had. i've been a pda junkie since the beginning of this with the crappy WIN CE2.1.
Since Win CE is mutch time gone and the devices gone faster and faster. The good old casio em500 running a 150 MHz MIPS CPU was fast - the well known iPAQ3660 was faster and much better in playing videos or something. Every change of hardware was a change that was useful. After that a MDA2 with a 400 MHz x-scale cpu was mine and it was faster than everything before. MDA Compact was faster, The Dell AXIM Series was fast like a rocket - but then XDA Orbit brakes me like a train crashing in a wall of steel. I thought i've been running this device with a handbrake or something.
The Orbit 2 is a little bit faster - but if there is no video driver the videos are laggy - and that is what i don't understand. Why HTC?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder why your facing this problem?!?! CorePlayer 1.2.2 gives smooth flawless video, I've tested in on every video format commonly used.
Have you installed it on your Storage card or Device memory?
Just out of curiosity, will it make any difference?
I have it installed on the device itself, will it get a boost if i install it on the memory card?
Kimma said:
Just out of curiosity, will it make any difference?
I have it installed on the device itself, will it get a boost if i install it on the memory card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the app performs faster if installed on the Device memory, hence the improved video speeds.
Jibreil said:
Yes, the app performs faster if installed on the Device memory, hence the improved video speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was a kinda unclear response, i asked if i'll get a boost if i'll get a boost if i install on the MicroSD Memory card, and you reply with yes, you will get a boost from the Device Memory.
But i'm guessing i've done the right thing (installing it on the Built In memory)
Better to install on the device memory. As a rule of thumb install apps on device memory, especially if you have performance or incompatibility issues.
As for Coreplayer, I am using 1.2 with QTv. While it is a lot better with QTv and benchmark numbers are great, it's still not that fluid. When panning in scenes or fast motion, it's still not very smooth. When I check properties I might have 1 dropped frame out of several thousand so I know it's not dropped frames. I have encoded my movie (source is my DVD) at 320x240. It's at 24 fps. I can always try encoding at 30fps and see if that fixes it. But I don't believe fps to be the issue since playing the 24fps movie on my computer is smooth. Any ideas?
Hi,
i have bluetooth Logitech Mini Boombox speaker, and i can say i am pretty disappointed.
Listening to mp3 and music in overall is OK, of course.
The problem is with video. Both BSplayer and Dice player give me a lag when watching movies.
Very hard to watch people speak as lip syncing is off.
Can anyone with bluetooth speakers try some movie and let me know the results.
Maybe some other video player plays better. Maybe it is Boombox that has problems (but i doubt).
Thing to have in mind: i tried playing from internal storage and streaming...both audio streams lag.
Aslo: the new firmware doesn't help.
Is this maybe normal for Android in overall? Shouldn't be.
Thx
Check out this thread maybe it can help
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1787662&highlight=blue+tooth
Svashtar said:
Hi,
i have bluetooth Logitech Mini Boombox speaker, and i can say i am pretty disappointed.
Listening to mp3 and music in overall is OK, of course.
The problem is with video. Both BSplayer and Dice player give me a lag when watching movies.
Very hard to watch people speak as lip syncing is off.
Can anyone with bluetooth speakers try some movie and let me know the results.
Maybe some other video player plays better. Maybe it is Boombox that has problems (but i doubt).
Thing to have in mind: i tried playing from internal storage and streaming...both audio streams lag.
Aslo: the new firmware doesn't help.
Is this maybe normal for Android in overall? Shouldn't be.
Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it makes you feel any better this problem is universal across multiple devices. It drives me crazy. It is present on the Transformer prime, TF300 Acer a510 and my Excite 7.7 even though these devices use different BT radios and different BT versions. I have heard people claim that some of these devices don't have video slowdown with BT. They do. Its subtle in some cases and might be overlooked but its there.
I have to assume it is OS related or Tegra related as these are the only things these devices have in common. I have found no way to completely minimize the slowdown in video. I have gone back to using wired headphones for video and BT for music and audio only where sync isn't a factor.
Here is one thing that does help. If you are playing a video that has AC3 audio encoding (most downloaded MKV files) the delay is increased slighty because the audio decoding is done by software not hardware - the video is delayed slightly to keep it in sync with the audio as it is decoded. Over BT this delay, for whatever reason is further exagerated.
For the record: ALL video players on Android decode AC3 in software, even Diceplayer - there is NO hardware support for AC3 on the tegra 3 chip.
To speed up your video you can try this: download the free software Avidemux. Use it to convert only the audio of your MKV file to AAC. By doing this you alow both audio and video to be decoded by hardware - this reduces a major source of lag. On a core i7 PC converting the audio to AAC takes less than 2 minutes on most videos. The video is left untouched - it is not re-encoded.
How to use Avidemux:
In the VIDEO drop down box select: COPY
In the AUDIO drop down box select: AAC
in the CONFIGURE box select a bitrate: 160 or whatever you prefer.
In the FILTERS box select Stereo for the Mixdown. (Why stereo? If you are listening through two speakers keep it simple - two channels are fastest to decode.)
In the FORMAT box select MP4.
In the FILE menu select SAVE then SAVE VIDEO and name your video with an MP4 extension. It will begin converting and will likely take only a couple of minutes on a fast machine.
Now you may find that your video plays fast enough to be acceptable over BT. I still find a faint lag noticeable even with full hardware decoding of audio.
Digital Man said:
If it makes you feel any better this problem is universal across multiple devices. It drives me crazy. It is present on the Transformer prime, TF300 Acer a510 and my Excite 7.7 even though these devices use different BT radios and different BT versions. I have heard people claim that some of these devices don't have video slowdown with BT. They do. Its subtle in some cases and might be overlooked but its there.
I have to assume it is OS related or Tegra related as these are the only things these devices have in common. I have found no way to completely minimize the slowdown in video. I have gone back to using wired headphones for video and BT for music and audio only where sync isn't a factor.
Here is one thing that does help. If you are playing a video that has AC3 audio encoding (most downloaded MKV files) the delay is increased slighty because the audio decoding is done by software not hardware - the video is delayed slightly to keep it in sync with the audio as it is decoded. Over BT this delay, for whatever reason is further exagerated.
For the record: ALL video players on Android decode AC3 in software, even Diceplayer - there is NO hardware support for AC3 on the tegra 3 chip.
To speed up your video you can try this: download the free software Avidemux. Use it to convert only the audio of your MKV file to AAC. By doing this you alow both audio and video to be decoded by hardware - this reduces a major source of lag. On a core i7 PC converting the audio to AAC takes less than 2 minutes on most videos. The video is left untouched - it is not re-encoded.
How to use Avidemux:
In the VIDEO drop down box select: COPY
In the AUDIO drop down box select: AAC
in the CONFIGURE box select a bitrate: 160 or whatever you prefer.
In the FILTERS box select Stereo for the Mixdown. (Why stereo? If you are listening through two speakers keep it simple - two channels are fastest to decode.)
In the FORMAT box select MP4.
In the FILE menu select SAVE then SAVE VIDEO and name your video with an MP4 extension. It will begin converting and will likely take only a couple of minutes on a fast machine.
Now you may find that your video plays fast enough to be acceptable over BT. I still find a faint lag noticeable even with full hardware decoding of audio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets run a triathlon to! Hahaha, just to get synced audio to work, so much work. Things should just work they are supposed to. Shouldn't they?
Digital Man said:
If it makes you feel any better this problem is universal across multiple devices. It drives me crazy. It is present on the Transformer prime, TF300 Acer a510 and my Excite 7.7 even though these devices use different BT radios and different BT versions. I have heard people claim that some of these devices don't have video slowdown with BT. They do. Its subtle in some cases and might be overlooked but its there.
I have to assume it is OS related or Tegra related as these are the only things these devices have in common. I have found no way to completely minimize the slowdown in video. I have gone back to using wired headphones for video and BT for music and audio only where sync isn't a factor.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure all these devices use different radios or wifi/bt chipsets? The TF700 uses the BCM4329, a very common (and now pretty cheap) chipset that does Wifi, BT (2.1 EDR only) and FM. I'd guess a lot of other Tegra 3 devices uses that one as well. If they'd gone with the BCM4330 they would have BT 4.0 and probably 5GHz wifi as well. The BCM4329 supports this, but it requires antennas for it.
According to someone from Asus (someone here mentioned they'd contacted support about it) BT and wifi shares antennas (makes sense, they're both in the same frequency range) which can cause a lot of interference which leads to abysmal performance, especially for the wifi.
All I know for sure is I'll stick to wired headphones with this tablet...
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Einride said:
You sure all these devices use different radios or wifi/bt chipsets? The TF700 uses the BCM4329, a very common (and now pretty cheap) chipset that does Wifi, BT (2.1 EDR only) and FM. I'd guess a lot of other Tegra 3 devices uses that one as well. If they'd gone with the BCM4330 they would have BT 4.0 and probably 5GHz wifi as well. The BCM4329 supports this, but it requires antennas for it.
According to someone from Asus (someone here mentioned they'd contacted support about it) BT and wifi shares antennas (makes sense, they're both in the same frequency range) which can cause a lot of interference which leads to abysmal performance, especially for the wifi.
All I know for sure is I'll stick to wired headphones with this tablet...
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it doesn't bother you at all dropping half or more of thousand US dollars on a tablet you can't use wifi and bluetooth correctly? It is this type of atitude that makes Asus get away with things like this and not want to make better products. If they know people will just continue to buy their products, even with known defects and issues, they're not going to change anything except charge higher prices for you to pay. So sad.
Hi,
i will try the trick and change audio stream, just because i want to know if it gets any better.
I am not going to do this every time I know I'll watch a movie on my infinity.
Fortunately my bluetooth speaker also has a line-in jack, so i have a workaround, but i could do that on any f*****.. speaker also. Wouldn't need a bluetooth one
Anyway, just wanted to let everyone interested know, that i have tried same movie with wifi on and off - same result.
This means, yes BT and WIFI share antenna, but if that would be a primary problem, wouldn't it be only logical that when wifi is off, bluetooth gets better. And vice versa. Well, for me that is not the case, which means there is an obvious SW problem. Could be Asus, could be Android. That's the main question here now.
Did this problem get any better with custom roms on TF300?
Thx
opentoe said:
So it doesn't bother you at all dropping half or more of thousand US dollars on a tablet you can't use wifi and bluetooth correctly? It is this type of atitude that makes Asus get away with things like this and not want to make better products. If they know people will just continue to buy their products, even with known defects and issues, they're not going to change anything except charge higher prices for you to pay. So sad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it does bother me, just not enough to RMA it. I pretty much just use wired headphones at the moment so I can live with it.
I could complain to Asus directly through their support form, but the last time I complained about I/O issues and ANR messages when browsing they suggested I enable software rendering in Internet Explorer 9.
I could RMA it, wait for months and then receive a tablet with the exact same flaw. Unless Asus can say that they've fixed the issue and you can get it replaced within days, I'm not RMA-ing anything. And that's not very likely to happen, is it?
Mixed results
So after reading this thread I decided to try it. I tried it with my bluetooth sound bar and netflix was stuttering, it would have to buffer and when it worked the video was choppy but the sound on the soundbar was fine. But then when I tried it with mine jay bird bluetooth headphones it works seamlessly kind of weird how one Bluetooth device wouldn't work but another one would.
hslsurfer said:
So after reading this thread I decided to try it. I tried it with my bluetooth sound bar and netflix was stuttering, it would have to buffer and when it worked the video was choppy but the sound on the soundbar was fine. But then when I tried it with mine jay bird bluetooth headphones it works seamlessly kind of weird how one Bluetooth device wouldn't work but another one would.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bluetooth has been screwed up on so many devices for so long - with video slowdown on every Tegra based device I have owned - but it hasn't gotten a lot of attention. So I'm glad to see that it bugs other people too.
This problem was present even on my Tegra 2 based Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Motorola Xoom. So I've been pretty surprised to find exactly the same problem on the latest generation of devices.
It bothered me so much I took an sd card with videos and my BT headset down to Best Buy and Microcenter and tried every device they had, with the intention of buying the one that didn't demonstrate Video slowdown when listening through BT headphones. There weren't any.
I will say that with the Jaybird Freedom BT headset the problem is almost imperceptible, but when you switch to wired heaphones, you CAN notice the difference.Videos run faster and smoother. With BT there is just the slightest general slowdown which I find distracting.
Custom ROMs have never solved the problem for me either. Overclocking has also been suggested, but the TF700 should have a fast enough processor to handle anything I would think. So I kind of think the OS is to blame.
I've learned to love wired headphones and speakers again. I keep telling myself the audio quality is better anyway, while I try not to trip over the headset cord and flip my tablet across the room....
Does the iPad use the BCM4330 chipet? I know it features Bluetooth 4.0. It is ironic that Apple cheapens out on the camera, storage space, and connectivity, but gives a superior wifi/bluetooth chipset. I would be curious what the price difference between the two chipsets is. You would think Asus would be want to be competitive and advertise Bluetooth 4.0. The standard has existed for 2 years.
Cleanskinned said:
Does the iPad use the BCM4330 chipet? I know it features Bluetooth 4.0. It is ironic that Apple cheapens out on the camera, storage space, and connectivity, but gives a superior wifi/bluetooth chipset. I would be curious what the price difference between the two chipsets is. You would think Asus would be want to be competitive and advertise Bluetooth 4.0. The standard has existed for 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There'll always be the tf800, lol
Splaktar said:
So I tried this last night. Here are my results:
Wifi speed with BT off and no streaming: 9.6-9.8 Mbps.
Wifi speed with BT off and streaming music on Google Play: 9.5-9.7 Mbps
Wifi speed with BT on and streaming music on Google Play: 9.5-9.7 Mbps
Wifi speed with BT on and streaming music on Google Play to Jambox: 9.5-9.7 Mbps
Thus I concluded that streaming music over BT to a speaker or headset had no problems or slow downs at all. So I decided to test with video. For this I used Amazon Prime Instant Video.
Wifi speed with BT off and no streaming: 9.6-9.8 Mbps.
Wifi speed with BT off and streaming video on APIV: 6.5-7.8 Mbps
Wifi speed with BT on and streaming video on APIV: 6.5-7.8 Mbps
Wifi speed with BT on and streaming video on APIV with audio going to Jambox: 6.7-7.9 Mbps
Now I think that the BT + streaming final test result being faster was not significant. I ran it at least 3 times to confirm and it was within those limits.
So at least for my personal copy of the Infinity, I am not seeing a WiFi slowdown while streaming over BT. I don't have 40+ Mbps internet, so maybe the slowdown is only at very high speeds and high radio power requirements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are some tests that I posted in another thread.
Splaktar said:
Here are some tests that I posted in another thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to add another data point. My Prime will stream movies with Bluetooth with no sync issues or excessive buffering and has been like that since the day I got it. I'm unlocked and running a custom ROM (AW2.1). My Prime's WiFi is pretty solid (for a prime LOL) and my GPS is DOA.
I have been a big bluetooth audio fan (I stay up late watching movies frequently but am courteous to the rest of the family) for a while and one thing I have found is some headphones lag no matter what is transmitting. A reviewer will very often not notice it if they just listen to music. I've been using my GOgroove Wireless AirBands as my TF201 'phones, FWIW.
It's not an OS or hardware thing, it's a bluetooth thing. Some apps (like Youtube) simply compensate for this audio lag when using bluetooth (and Airplay as well, btw). You can see it yourself, when you pause the youtube video, it will take a fraction of a second for the sound to pause. I haven't seen an A2DP connection (on iOS as well) that didn't have this lag. Video apps need to compensate for it (Netflix did too, at least for iOS and Airplay, don't know for bluetooth either on iOS or Android), so different players may have this problem or not.
What it's worse for though, is for games. That jambox video where the guy is playing a game is just BS.
zenaxe said:
Just to add another data point. My Prime will stream movies with Bluetooth with no sync issues or excessive buffering and has been like that since the day I got it. I'm unlocked and running a custom ROM (AW2.1). My Prime's WiFi is pretty solid (for a prime LOL) and my GPS is DOA.
I have been a big bluetooth audio fan (I stay up late watching movies frequently but am courteous to the rest of the family) for a while and one thing I have found is some headphones lag no matter what is transmitting. A reviewer will very often not notice it if they just listen to music. I've been using my GOgroove Wireless AirBands as my TF201 'phones, FWIW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hade the prime too.
I have two sony bluetooth music headsets (the mw600 and the hbh-ds220). Both were working with the prime without any problem.
Now with my new tf700 i get stuttering when listening to google music. The music is buffered on the tf700 and it even happens when i have no internet connection. So i don't think it's an antenna problem at all.
i also noticed lag when using bsplayer and youtube when i tried to connect the tf700 to my beamer and stream the audio via bluetooth. bsplayer was worse but i noticed it also in the youtube app. I don't know if it would start stuttering too as i disconnected bluetooth immediatly.
I think the stuttering was a little bit less when i go on max performance. But that's just a subjective opinion.
I think it's a problem with the bluetooth chip itself and thus i have to send it back...
Anyone know if the Jelly Bean update for the TF300 fixed this?
FYI, Asus tech support told me that the bluetooth audio lag issues "will be improved" in a future OTA. I read that as "not completely fixed" so I returned (sniff sniff) my TF700 today while I still could.
No lag on video with Bluetooth on a Toshiba AT105–T1032 Thrive.
flhthemi said:
No lag on video with Bluetooth on a Toshiba AT105–T1032 Thrive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, none on my SGS3 or iPad2 (BT 2.1 even), but I really wanted an integral keyboard with extra battery for those long flights to Asia.
Kinda hoping the Lenovo S2110 can fit the ticket, but might wait for another round of processors...
Well, as the title says... I was commonly using my note (barely a week old) and I came to notice that my wireless BOSE SoundSport works perfectly with certain apps and not with others... Pandora/Netflix and other streaming apps works find, with equalizer settings on and normal (off)... I've notice that crackle/echo sound mainly with games, games tested were CoC/Need for Speed No Limits/Real Racing 3/TWD: Season 1, 2/ and GoT: Season 1. So, to rule out any other doubts and try to see what's not working properly, I borrowed a random Apple wired earphones and everything worked perfectly. I tried a friend's BEAT's and got the same issue... so, it's definitely a BT issue... I have another BOSE set (wired) in the car that I could use in the meantime...
So, I did my extensive search before bugging you all, I did the unpair/re-pair... reset all of my network settings, tried different devices as mentioned above, rebooting the phone while paired and unpaired... so, I'm at a loss right now and baffled a bit... the earphones are about 2 months old and the phone was purchased last friday.... so both fairly new. I read that the S8's and S8+'s have similar issues, any insight from you all about this matter?
Bluetooth audio sucks. It's never worked well. I've had similar issues with every phone I've ever owned.
ShrekOpher said:
Bluetooth audio sucks. It's never worked well. I've had similar issues with every phone I've ever owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that doesn't sound promising... heh, I initially purchased the wireless BOSE because I was considering purchasing the iPhone X since they don't have the 3.5 mini jack. In light of that decision, iOS (Apple) has been screwing us jailbreakers since iOS 9.3.5 and I had an iPhone 6+ on iOS 8.4 JB, when I destroyed my iPhone because of obvious dated software and loss of connection "due to it", AT&T sent me a new one through the insurance program and it came with iOS 11... *shiver*... needless to say, hated the stock iPhone OS... couldn't do crap!... which ultimately forced me to move onto Android and decided to go to the Note 8. I see that the Note 8 is also a pain to root but as is, it does a lot that the iPhone doesn't. Just minor stuff that I'm use to with the iPhone that the Note isn't doing.
I do have a pair of wired BOSE earphones, so it's not like it's the end of the world, sort of got use to being without a wire tugging at me if it snags. How far does this dates with ****ty BT audio? I mean the audio is great on Pandora and other streaming service apps, it's just game apps sound terrible... I don't see why the audio chipset isn't capable to switch over without issue.
}{yBr!D^ said:
Well, that doesn't sound promising... heh, I initially purchased the wireless BOSE because I was considering purchasing the iPhone X since they don't have the 3.5 mini jack. In light of that decision, iOS (Apple) has been screwing us jailbreakers since iOS 9.3.5 and I had an iPhone 6+ on iOS 8.4 JB, when I destroyed my iPhone because of obvious dated software and loss of connection "due to it", AT&T sent me a new one through the insurance program and it came with iOS 11... *shiver*... needless to say, hated the stock iPhone OS... couldn't do crap!... which ultimately forced me to move onto Android and decided to go to the Note 8. I see that the Note 8 is also a pain to root but as is, it does a lot that the iPhone doesn't. Just minor stuff that I'm use to with the iPhone that the Note isn't doing.
I do have a pair of wired BOSE earphones, so it's not like it's the end of the world, sort of got use to being without a wire tugging at me if it snags. How far does this dates with ****ty BT audio? I mean the audio is great on Pandora and other streaming service apps, it's just game apps sound terrible... I don't see why the audio chipset isn't capable to switch over without issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bluetooth audio in general is just lower quality that wired, even on iPhone.
If it's only having issues during the games you might want to adjust the phones performance settings to be on the highest.
Use game tuner to adjust it.
ShrekOpher said:
Bluetooth audio in general is just lower quality that wired, even on iPhone.
If it's only having issues during the games you might want to adjust the phones performance settings to be on the highest.
Use game tuner to adjust it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not complaining about the overall audio quality of the earphones while using a wireless setting. The echo/crackle is unbearable while running a game while music streaming or movie/tv streaming apps worked flawlessly... good quality sound via BT. Looking at your attachment I don't see that option on my phone. I know there is a performance option but not like yours .
Nevermind found it in the play store. I'll mess with GameTuner and BT tomorrow.
So, I used that Game Tuner app and the stock performance mode options on the phone and still does the same thing with BT connection... funny thing is I just now let pandora playing in the background and started up a game and well, pandora played normally while the game stuttered/echoed and crackled... The game apps just dont function with BT well as far as transmitting sound... the bandwidth is probably too slow for that much information to travel over the air...?? hmmm... thought it had BT 5.0 which this wouldn't have happened... I was happy Samsung had Qualcomm do their network chip because of their quality.... don't know wtf happened there.
}{yBr!D^ said:
So, I used that Game Tuner app and the stock performance mode options on the phone and still does the same thing with BT connection... funny thing is I just now let pandora playing in the background and started up a game and well, pandora played normally while the game stuttered/echoed and crackled... The game apps just dont function with BT well as far as transmitting sound... the bandwidth is probably too slow for that much information to travel over the air...?? hmmm... thought it had BT 5.0 which this wouldn't have happened... I was happy Samsung had Qualcomm do their network chip because of their quality.... don't know wtf happened there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like a game issue not a BT issue. Does it happen with all games. I have not had the same issue playing a few games I play.
ShrekOpher said:
That sounds like a game issue not a BT issue. Does it happen with all games. I have not had the same issue playing a few games I play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happens with the games I have installed currently. This only happens when the BT earphones are connected not with the 3.5mm jack. Even on a BT Samsung speaker it does the same noises... What's a game you have that runs well for you?
But for sure it has to do with the gaming apps and BT together... only happens when both are working.
Ok, thread's over.... apparently something happened during the first install which caused the apps to run a muck and sound crappy.. reinstalled them and they're working after installing other random games to see if I'll get the same defective sound and they worked perfectly... and now my other games that I actually play as I'm re-installing them are working... so far. thanks
HA! not a fix, some of those games still have that issue... either wait for Samsung or used wired earphones for those games
Hello there. I've the same problem as yours. My note8 + razer hammerhead bt have cracking sound when playing need for speed no limits. How did you fix this game? Only a simple reinstall? I've reinstalled but still the same.
I've my hammerhead bt with other android phone + no limit and it worked fine! So im guessing this is a samsung problem