Database Info

The PANTRY

Here are some thoughts and ramblings I have been doing. For weeks and months now I have been flashing a different ROM about every 2 or 3 days, trying to find just that special one I like the best and suits my needs, which hasn’t happened yet. Then came along the Kitchens with all the ways to make it just the way I want it. I love it, and have just started in the last few days cooking my own ROM’s that do meet my needs. For arguments sake, I am using the Core 2.0n base ROM, Core Pro Kitchen. Have a Cingular 8125, Use the AT&T/Cingular Network. 1gb RAM card, and live in the US ….
Here is what I have found. If I am way off base or doing something maybe wrong, please let me know, there might be an easier way already out there, but I haven’t found it yet. And as of today, I have not bricked my phone with anything I have done below.
OK, It seems every ROM I have flashed, there was that ONE little program that stood out and really made me happy. So what I have been doing is this. I find a ROM that has that little special program I want, and use the kitchen to rip it all apart. When all is said and done, instead of flashing it right then and there, I enter the C:\Core\Kitchen\OEM or C:\Core\Kitchen\SYS and find that one certain program/package I like and cut it out and save it to a temp directory. I do that with 7 or 8 different ROMs until I get all the little parts I want. Then I take the Basic Core 2.0n and use it as my base, do all the steps right up to the part where you BUILD, and then I go to that temp directory and move all those special programs to where they belong in the Kitchen. THEN BUILD. So far it has worked great.
BUT, here is where I get to the MAIN POINT of this topic. Thinking of the word KITCHEN, I was wondering where do I go to get all my FOOD so to speak to COOK? Well in my house I go to the PANTRY. So, I was wondering, is there a way or someone who could start the PANTRY? My thinking of what it would be is a place for all those programs out there that are added to the OEM and SYS folders SEPERATLY. Kind of like an FTP site or something.
Here is an example of what could be in the PANTRY, using Total Commander as my example. And would have a TotalCommander2.zip file in it, along with all those others out there.
This is what is in my Total Commander 2 Directory, which is ready for the BUILD step.
---------------------------------------------------------
C:\Core\Kitchen\SYS\TotalCommander2
cca7de97-9353-45c7-9006-0a73bec0575f.dsm
cca7de97-9353-45c7-9006-0a73bec0575f.rgu
cecmd.exe
ftp.tfx
initflashfiles.txt
LAN.tfx
registry.tfx
Total Commander
As you can see, it’s complete with the initflashfiles.txt. dsm and the .rgu, and everything else that’s needed. So why not take that directory and everything in it and zip it up, and add it to the PANTRY. That way, say someone wanted a BASE ROM , with just Total Commander and NOTHING ELSE, they could go to the PANTRY, download that zip file, unzip it and put it in their Kitchen’s directory and it’s done. I have read a lot about the topic “How To Create A Rom Package” and this seems to be the easiest way, since 90% of them out there that we use are already built. All they need is to be placed in a PANTRY for everyone to share ? ??
Just my thoughts…………….
DaKender

You're welcome to download the OEM pack from the kitchen thread, and contribute at will for others to use.
It's a collection of programs contributed and collected by the forum users.
While managing 50+ different downloadable files would be a pain, having it all in one directory is simple, it's not that big, and easily downloaded - and updated.
Heck, take it and start your own OEM pack thread - it's not mine to say you can't.

The case for a "loaded" cooked ROM?

Hey all...
So I have been in the Kaiser forums for about a week now and have played around with some of the ROMs out there. My previous device was a PPC-6700. On that device there was a ROM and an Extended ROM. To the best of my experience, I never played with the ROM, but I did unlock the extended ROM and remove many of the bloatware cabs. I also set up some file (I can't remember the name, but it was similar to the UC option) which would allow my own CABs placed in the extended ROM to be auto-installed. In this way we were able to distribute the phones to employees with only the software we wanted (for instance, with our company cert pre-loaded and TCPMP to play back cisco VMs).
While I understand the interest in "cooking" a ROM to get all the latest and greates components (WM version, Radio, etc.) from the various ROMs into one uber-ROM, I'm not sure I see the advantage of adding in all the additional pieces of software.
From my viewpoint, I would think that a ROM should be as clean as possible, this would present a nice base for users to customize. Instead of "cooking" all the files for other components (plugins, menu replacements, voice command, SIPs, etc) into the ROM, why not just provide these as CABs either within the ROM or as a separate download alongside the ROM?
This would allow not only users to choose what to add, but also allow them to remove an installed CAB if they no longer want to use it or if a new one comes along.
I understand part of the allure of a cooked ROM is that the cook has ensured all the components work together... and in my scenario this would still be the case. The ROM would be qualified and shipped with a certain set of applications, but that doesn't mean they all need to be installed.
Another argument I hear for using a cooked ROM is that all the apps are already installed and it doesn't take time to reinstall all the apps. However, with UC, can you not just load all CABs onto an SD and have them all autoinstall? I am pretty sure you can write a file that will install a set of cabs even from local storage. While I understand that this might take a couple minutes more initially, I think the time saved in the long run would be equal or more. For instance, it might take me 10 minutes after I re-flash a base ROM to load another 15 CABs that I want. But, when a new version comes out of my application, or another application I want to install conflicts with something on there, I can easily uninstall the CAB. Small changes to the configurations can also be made without cooking a new ROM.
Now I fully appreciate all the work the cooks on this site have done. I think their work is great. What I am suggesting is an alternative methodology and one that is certainly not new. I am the type of person who likes a very clean build, but also enjoy the many features that are offered with some of the busier ROMs. I feel that having a base build and then simple a suite of approved or offered CABs make the whole process cleaner.
I am trying to understand how the mindset evolved here to make these feature rich ROMs instead of the alternative. The main argument I have heard is that it is quicker to just flash a ROM with all apps rather than load each one. As I have addressed that above, I don't think that the time savings are significant in comparison to the flexibility of modular CABs.
Perhaps there are additional advantages to the current approach that I have overlooked and I would be interested in hearing them.
tell me your thoughts?

wow......all that writing and all you are suggesting that cooks put out some clean roms? arent those already available?

lmfao flash your own clean rom, flash your own choice of radio, tweak on your own, etc...

Do you ever contribute anything worthwhile to threads or do you just prefer to be a sarcastic jerk?
I realize there are some clean ROMs out there...that wasn't the full scope of the post.
The "clean" ROMs are indeed what I would prefer, however that leaves the user going around hunting for all the applications and additions they desire. (And don't use the argument that the user is lazy if they don't spend the time to do this...after all that is what the "cooked" roms allow the user to be...lazy).
The alternative is the loaded ROM which has everything chosen by the cook. The user can't uninstall a component he may not want, or if it causes conflicts with something else.
The middle ground is what I am advocating...a clean ROM but offered with either "built-in" cabs or a separate repository. This would allow the user to install what they wanted (or install it all...then removing what they don't find useful). This would also allow easier updates in between major cooked releases.
I am not stating one way is definitively better, just that at some point someone decided to cook it all in rather then just offer the cab files, and I am looking for the advantage over my alternative.
What would even be nice (and if I knew how to code for PPC I would look to do it!) would be a little menu app that could manage installs from a repository either on your SD card or even online! So you could browse a list of available apps, versions, and descriptions and load it right up. These repositories would then be what the cooks spent time compiling, even offering "Suites" of applications that complement each other well.
As I stated in my original post I am very thankful for the work that others have contributed here and am not belittling their accomplishments in any way. I am just trying to understand how and why things have evolved to their current situation since, if I were to have the time and knowledge I see my framework as more workable (IMHO).

My personal opinion
That's one of the best presented arguments I've seen in a while Bengalih.
Completely agree with all your reasons for preferring a clean ROM over a loaded one - particularly the ability to update applications as and when a new cab is released. While this is the best answer for you (as you state) and in all probability every person with the willingness to go and look for the latest version of everything, I personally still prefer the loaded ROM. I simply prefer the least amount of time between a Hard Reset and being fully back up and running - in my case as long as it takes me to type in my Exchange server details. I try to cook in applications without any bugs that do what I want, so I won't need that newer version (just want it) and if a newer version does come out I can easily bake it into another ROM and be back up and running from start to finish within half an hour (mostly).
While you're completely correct in everything you say - I'm one of the fundamentally lazy people (seriously, check out my ROM's v1.3 intro - that's the word I use to describe why I built it) and so I tend to prefer loaded ROMs.

the way i see it, we cook a rom to have our ideal base. Things where we meet the minimum. The minimum for me must have HTC home, office, tomtom, the games that I always play, which is a whole variety, pim backup, and battery status. When I have my clean base, I just add my packages, which doesn't even take me long at all. If something screws up, we flash our cooked rom, and we don't have to worry about flashing a clean base and adding all our cabs. My roms include a lot of apps, but thats what I expect from my base. Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.

Thanks for your reply Stu...a perfect example of how one can disagree with an opinion while being completely civil. It seems many other members of this forum can learn from your example.
I'm still not 100% sure I agree with the time you save by having everything cooked in. As you admit, if you want to upgrade an app you would basically cook a fresh ROM with the new package in it and take up to 30 mins. To be honest I would think that you could load ALL your cabs in well under 30 minutes (the first time) and then it takes about 1 minute to upgrade a cab if a new version comes out.
Of course it depends on how often you do each. If you really find yourself reloading your ROM alot...let's say once a week, you might have saved yourself 10-20 mins each time since you don't need to load CABs. However if you instead wanted to upgrade 4 apps, you have saved yourself 30 mins each time from having to recook the ROM.
I guess another thing I don't understand about the argument for the fully loaded ROM is how often are you really re-flashing your ROM? While I understand someone may do this frequently if they are testing ROMs, how often do you really need to re-flash your ROM once it is running with the apps you like (and/or cooked in)?
Also, I believe your opinion is slanted (and not in a bad way) because you obviously cook your own ROMs. Because of this you can customize it the way you want since you have total control. Some of the cooks on here seem to be people like you who then just turn over their ROM for others to use, while other cooks seem to be making ROMs to please the population. Not saying either is a bad thing...just what I notice.
I haven't cooked my own ROM yet (though I have read through the tutorials). I believe however that even after I have decided on everything I want that I won't cook a loaded ROM (if i cook one at all). I would prefer to just put all the CABs i use in a directory and if i ever rebuild just load them all back on, or possibly create a UC script to load them all off my storage card.
Although I still don't really see the advantage of the fully loaded ROM (unless of course you tend to A) reflash your ROM frequently (for what reason?) and B) Tend to not want to upgrade CABs frequently)... to each his own.
thanks!

thomassster said:
Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny you say that thomas... because i feel opposite. I feel that with the cooked ROMs it seems that many things just get dumped into the Windows directory instead of being put into individual Program folders. In addition, with no uninstall option it gives me a non-clean feeling
I see your point of course on just building the base the way you want and it makes sense if you don't feel you will want to upgrade an individual component.
I guess I am generally they type that like to go and get the newest version of an app if it is available and would find the process quicker if i could just upgrade the CAB.
Also, as stated above, once I find a config I like I don't know why I would reflash my ROM on any type of frequent basis.

There are additional reasons why certain applications cooked into ROMs aren't always your best alternative.
This is when certain applications (e.g., TomTom, MobiTV & XMRadio) require specific directories for installation. If cooked into the ROM, it will occupy twice the amount of space, since all files are placed in \Windows and through initflashfiles.dat get copied to other locations (e.g., \Program Files\MobiTV). Chefs that know about this avoid cooking these apps into their ROMs.
As for ROMs & which way is better, it's a matter of personal taste. Some folks prefer different levels of clean, and others prefer different levels of full. Some people won't flash unless a cube is included. It's pretty much why I release 8 different versions...

Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input

bengalih said:
Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The method you describe has been mentioned before in other threads and quite possibly in its own thread. (The topic was UC packs, CAB packs or something like that)
There are three cons with that method:
Which cabs to include are subjective, so it's much easier for an individual to gather his/her own cabs
Creating CABs can be a serious pain in the ass, especially if you have 50 OEM packages that need converting and/or fixing for the specific ROM you're building
Cross ROM / device support, which frequently occurs when CABs are released.
On the other hand, with a cooked ROM, you know it works because the chef ( andhis beta tester(s) ) spent the time to test it on the same/similar device and on a specific OS build. ROMs give a better experience overall because of this testing.
FWIW, I've thought about doing what you mention above waaay back with my first UltraClean ROM, but as stated, serious PITA
*SHRUG* Perhaps I'll re-consider it in the future too...
edit: Alltheway used to offer UC packs. Not sure if he still does on his 4shared folder...

I have, personally, always preferred a clean ROM. Yes, it takes some time to set it up the way you want it but, at least, that way, I am not stuck with applications I do not use. If I were to cook a ROM, I would cook it the way I want it and then distribute it. Most cooks here do just that. I would be happy if every cooks released a clean ROM but that is not possible. If cooking ROMs were a full-time job for these cooks, then, I would definitely demand one. So, the way I feel it, if I am lazy or not good enough to cook my own ROMs then I should stick with what has been released and not complain.

@ sherpa:
Perhaps you should go back and re-read my posts. Not once did I "demand" or "complain" about anything that any cook has put out. In fact more than once did I thank and compliment them on all their work. The fact that you state you would "demand" a ROM a certain way if this was the cook's full time job show that it is you more than I who feel that they are, or might be, owed something from these contributors. I fully realize that many cooks are just putting out their own personal ROMs to the masses, but there are plenty of them out there that are also looking to please the community and offer something different. It was to these people that I thought my message might resonate and someone might want to try something like it. As _Alex_ suggested others have thought similarly at somepoint (including himself), so I am not alone in my thoughts. So before you accuse me of complaining, you should re-examine my own words and yours.
@_Alex_
Thanks for the thoughts. I see all the points you are making. However I would argue that point #1 and #3 happen whichever method you choose. A cook is subjective when choosing which CABs to add to a loaded ROM as well. In addition, a single ROM is also device dependent whether it is fully loaded or not. I feel your pain on point #2 about creating CABs... you helped me out in another thread as I created a CAB of the latest Remote Desktop client (with drive mapping support) from the latest AT&T test ROM. I agree that for the cook that would be an extra effort although in many cases most of the CABs are already out there.
Again, I am making a recommendation as to a new (or old?) way to approach this. It sounds like it would be good for the user, but more work for the cook. Of course the current methods are well established, so even if my idea has merits it would most likely encounter some resistance (and as seen already by some, accusations and ignorance.) I still like the idea of an online (or off) repository with a little front-end on the device. The repository can be loaded with approved CABs which can be loaded and unloaded off the device.
In the long run, I don't think it will matter much for me individually, as I will most likely use an available clean build, an RTM ROM, or maybe cook my own. But in any case, I will stick with CABs, and just hope that the ones i need are available or I am able to create them myself (which is exactly what I did for Remote Desktop).
thx!

Dude, I never accused you of complaining. When I wrote "not complain", I meant it to the general population who complain about what's included and what's not included.

No offense meant, no offense taken then. Based on how this thread started out I guess I was just in a defensive mind-set.
We all good

ok bro bengalish
you are just quiet right , i understand your point and i also think that thought cookers make a great work to interduce a room that is useful for everyone but it still better to get a clean room and that's because a simple reason , you will never be able to make everyone happy because simply everyone of us has his owen taste
but i would like to describe what a clean room means ..
i belive it should contain main updates that everyone will need i mean updates like camera , sound and system etc..
i have to thank you for this rich argue and much greeting for you
and i hope really everyone in this forum can show little respect and kindness for the others
cheers

Yes haam,
I would prefer to see more frequent ROMs that have all the base stuff updated (latest BT, VC, etc). And not have the cooks spend as much time with the additional applications as many people will want to do customization here. To the main point, I think there are alot more people out there who can cook an application CAB then cook a ROM with all the latest drivers properly implemented. In my framework the cooks can focus on an up to date clean ROM and the assistant chefs (many in the community) could work on CABs.
Of course I fully acknowledge that there is a segment here (cooks included) that they want everything loaded from the get go and don't really care about additional customization. If that is the majority then things will stay status quo. If not, maybe we will see more people working on UC or CAB packs or something to that effect.
thanks for everyone's thoughts!

ROM Release Standartization

First and foremost, my hats (the whole rack of 'em) off to all the chefs in their respective kitchens. I've personally been a silent, yet happy customer for quite some time, and have been checking the forum daily for the next flash.
However, I've found that different ROMs will, obviously, have their list of capabilities and limits. Some support SIP better than others, some can't run iGo, etc. Mostly I flash, then find out during my installations, etc., and by that time I'm too lazy to flash back and just live with what I have. I would probably not flash ROMs that didn't support iGo and SIP if I knew that up front.
Having that in mind, I thought we could (as a group of continous beta testers and their respective gurus) try to formulate what would be a "check-list" for ROM releases, thus allowing the newbies (that don't know what to expect) and the old bees (buzzing along from ROM to ROM) to pick the right ROM flavor.
An example would be:
ROM Details
=========
ROM Name / Version: xxxx (Dutty's ..., Schap's ..., etc.)
CE Version: xxxx
Radio Versions Supported: xxxx ( So we know what we should have before flashing )
Based on: HTC WWE Release xxx (So we know if we got the new "hardware acceleration, etc")
Compatability
=========
SIP: [Not/Is] Supported, configured by ...
Skype: [Not/Is] Supported
iGo v7: Works out of the box / Requires removal of HTC Home
iGo v8: Not Supported
etc.
Thoughts about what this should include?
- SiteLister

Well I'm gonna jump on this first since chances are others won't be very nice about this thread
Not that I think your idea is a bad one, but to be honest most cooks already provide this information when they release a ROM.
If application compatibility isn't listed then the first 20 posts will bring it out....
If what you are asking is to compile a whole list of all these ROMs in one place. OK, good idea...but no one is going to do it for you.
If you like the idea...do it youself, or at least make a good start. Putting a post out like this is more likely to draw animosity since you are asking others to provide information that has been put out there numerous times. Good idea or not, you should make the initial effort and if you build something nice, people will contribut and thank you. Otherwise, they will just flame...
In addition, the Wiki would be the best place to do this.

not to say that this is a bad idea but there is one major flaw with the idea, most chefs cook for themselves and then release. with that said most of the chefs do not sit and try every possible application that can be put on your Kaiser, if you want to know what roms work with what applications and you also want to be the first to flash it and have the latest then you just have to try it for yourself. if you don't mind waiting you can wait a few days for the members that do use the programs you use to see if they say it works. i personally like to take a rom cooked by a chef, dump it and recook it for myself with the cabs my UC would usually install into the rom where i want them to be. sorry if this seems like a **** response but as far as i can see there is no way for the chefs to tell you what does and doesn't work and that's why we have threads after the rom release for people to tell others what does and doesn't work.

tubaking182 said:
not to say that this is a bad idea but there is one major flaw with the idea, most chefs cook for themselves and then release. with that said most of the chefs do not sit and try every possible application that can be put on your Kaiser, if you want to know what roms work with what applications and you also want to be the first to flash it and have the latest then you just have to try it for yourself. if you don't mind waiting you can wait a few days for the members that do use the programs you use to see if they say it works. i personally like to take a rom cooked by a chef, dump it and recook it for myself with the cabs my UC would usually install into the rom where i want them to be. sorry if this seems like a **** response but as far as i can see there is no way for the chefs to tell you what does and doesn't work and that's why we have threads after the rom release for people to tell others what does and doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of this is true... however I don't think he is asking the chef's to do anything different, it just looks like he wants an encyclopedic reference of all ROMs and their features. Again, good idea...but just do it if you want it. Others will contribute if they find it worthy, if they don't...then oh well, at least you learned for yourself.

sitelister said:
An example would be:
ROM Details
=========
ROM Name / Version: xxxx (Dutty's ..., Schap's ..., etc.)
CE Version: xxxx
Radio Versions Supported: xxxx ( So we know what we should have before flashing )
Based on: HTC WWE Release xxx (So we know if we got the new "hardware acceleration, etc")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im hip to this.. well mainly must of us do that already in one form or another just not in that pretty format
sitelister said:
Compatability
=========
SIP: [Not/Is] Supported, configured by ...
Skype: [Not/Is] Supported
iGo v7: Works out of the box / Requires removal of HTC Home
iGo v8: Not Supported
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a bad idea, however this would require us to manually test a billion pieces of software in order before giving it out.
Now how about a better idea, someone should start a kaiser wiki page on bug fixes, etc... In all of my beta roms when someone points out an issue i will ask them to provide a link for a fix if i dont know it already, i actually do this for a couple of reasons.
1. it helps promote interactivity between forum members and helps to get people communicating, etc. This also helps to hinder the n00b factor and provides links for other people.
2. it provides me reference point, before i release each beta i go through the previous threads and make sure that i have fixed everything that was broken prior.

sitelister said:
First and foremost, my hats (the whole rack of 'em) off to all the chefs in their respective kitchens. I've personally been a silent, yet happy customer for quite some time, and have been checking the forum daily for the next flash.
However, I've found that different ROMs will, obviously, have their list of capabilities and limits. Some support SIP better than others, some can't run iGo, etc. Mostly I flash, then find out during my installations, etc., and by that time I'm too lazy to flash back and just live with what I have. I would probably not flash ROMs that didn't support iGo and SIP if I knew that up front.
Having that in mind, I thought we could (as a group of continous beta testers and their respective gurus) try to formulate what would be a "check-list" for ROM releases, thus allowing the newbies (that don't know what to expect) and the old bees (buzzing along from ROM to ROM) to pick the right ROM flavor.
An example would be:
ROM Details
=========
ROM Name / Version: xxxx (Dutty's ..., Schap's ..., etc.)
CE Version: xxxx
Radio Versions Supported: xxxx ( So we know what we should have before flashing )
Based on: HTC WWE Release xxx (So we know if we got the new "hardware acceleration, etc")
Compatability
=========
SIP: [Not/Is] Supported, configured by ...
Skype: [Not/Is] Supported
iGo v7: Works out of the box / Requires removal of HTC Home
iGo v8: Not Supported
etc.
Thoughts about what this should include?
- SiteLister
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah configuration management then maybe ISO accreditation................
Flash, enjoy, read, explore, reflash again and again.
Remember this isn't someones job its their hobby that they share.
Remember to say thankyou every now and then.
Thanks

usually it's the base rom that isn't compatible with the software. Most chefs just take the base rom and strip it out to remove bloated software and add in their own personal software. There are some chefs that go out of their way and add in the necessary dlls and files to make certain software work, but it is really difficult for chefs to do such a thing. Maybe a specific thread for each software to work on a particular rom would be helpful.

Thanks for your replies, y'all.
To be clear (and I can see where I may have not been there), I was fishing for interest. The next thing up would be to set it up in one format or another (Wiki, whatever) - I'm just not usually for building something before there is a market for it. When I said "we could" I meant it would be something that people could contribute to (myself, amongst others), in a format better appealing than, or more appropriate than those 105-long pages mostly containing praises, bashes, and little information (there's quite the picking to do when you're actually trying to decypher what a ROM's capabilities are).
If there is an interest, I'd be happy to put in the initial effort, but I'm also fishing for content requirements - that is, I've put forward some kind of basic format, but what other information would cause people to make a judgement? what kind of apps are important, etc.
Quick replies:
bengalih - I'm hanging on the fact that people are, inherently, nice. Hopefully at a higher ratio in this forum .
tubaking - Agreed, most users will give the feedback back to the cook or the forum. I'm actually not asking anyone to do more work than they already are. My thoughts are that the feedback is sometimes lost in (or hard to gather from) the forum. Fixes are also all over the place (for example - the iGo version compatability thread). I believe it's because the tool is incorrect (discussions).
bengalih - Agreed.
shogunmark - Sounds good. Wiki then as the solution? - Possibly have one page per release, and a summary in a top-level page that contains a comparative table?
halon - I'm sure I don't say it enough --> THANKS!
thomassster - I believe that the concept is good, but you're back to trying to nitpick for each application you're interested in, in hopes that people organize it in that fashion. Additionally, you're still back into reading a bunch of acknowledgments, accreditations and bashes (which take up a good chunk of the forum content).
... Thoughts?

inconsistencies in "support"
This is a good idea (or a bugzilla-type thread/wiki) and as ShogunMark stated in his first post, the first 20 posts (pages!) bring out the main probs. the only issue there is that some posters inevitably state that something or everything is working for them (perfectly) out of the box, while others experience major dysfunction, creating a confusing morass of info.
How bout a survey page - everyone votes for what works or not?
Cheers-

Yes this sounds like a good idea for someone as a side project to document in the wiki. But really most of this information can be found in the first 20 to 30 posts. And most roms, are quickly superceded by another new version. So if you want to do it, I am sure someone will read it. But asking the chef's things like does IGO work or Skype, If they don't use them they should not be expected to test them...IGO who cares if it works or not, only the people that use it..not everyone..
SO if you want to create a wiki page with this info; go ahead and do it and maybe someone will read it...Maybe good idea, but it will quickly be outdated.

List of Cooked ROMs?

This is my 3rd post ever here, so please be gentle.
Crogon said:
I can't seem to find it now, but didn't there used to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs here somewhere?
I think what I'm aiming at is a fully patched / hacked 6.1 HTC ROM with everything fixed and no bugs. Preferably minus any bloatware. If it has recommended utilities pre-installed great, if not, no big loss. Did they ever finish hacking a video driver together? I lost track of that thread, and can't seem to find any current info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: I found a tidbit somewhere that says the newest video driver updates should be cooked into the newest ROMs.. but how do I figure out which ones have all the bug patches and hacks installed, and etc. like I mentioned above? I know there USED to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs, but I can't find it now.
Hmm.. Am I maybe thinking of a list of pre-cooked ROMs for the Wing, or some other HTC? If I am, I'm DEFINITELY going to need some ROM recommendations.
Here are my stats, if it helps any:
rom version 3.57.502.2 WWE
rom date 7/17/08
radio version: 1.65.21.18
protocol version: 25.88.40.05H
tri-color screen
KAIS1*0
SPL-3.56.Hard
CPLD-8
.
.
Serial
image version 3.57.502.2
R 1.65.21.18
G 25.88.40.05H
D 3.57.00.00
Thanks again for any help!

if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say

mazin13 said:
if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he DOESN'T WANT a cooked rom he is looking for a pre-cooked rom.
@op did you check the kaiser wiki or htc's website?? 'cuz that is where you will find all the latest roms for your device that aren't cooked by a chef.

Also, look around for mbavrian's Kitchen Elements.
The "Base ROMs" on which our Chefs makes their gourmet meals are difficult to locate. Some chefs refuse to share like little playground children.
Others, Like NotATreoFan, have released their base for other people to use to make ROMs. Great Contributors.

Woops!
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.

Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never seen one and I don't believe one exists. You'll just have to do your own research.

Crogon said:
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to spend some time and TRY each ROM and see which one is suited for you.
Again, READ and spend time.
Read WIKI especially.
There is no 100% perfect ROM even if it is official one.

Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
If you want a newest list, you are always welcome to Update the wiki

I'm heading for the aspirin bottle just now. I spent like 3 hours reformatting the info on the wiki page into a spreadsheet.. when I discovered that some of the authors are still releasing, but it's not on the list!
AAHHH!!
So basically, A full up to date list is needed. Let alone version comparisons or features and bug fix lists.
Good grief.
No wonder most people opt to install ROMs randomly till they happen across one they like.
.. I think I'll make a new wiki page eventually. Something along the lines of a Kaiser ROM Feature Comparison page.
Do I get a XDA-Dev decoder ring if I actually finish it? lol

[Q]Changing ID.. ill explain..

**used Android ID Changer.. worked exactly as i needed..**
Im running vegan rom
i play a couple games that are tied into the phone( or whatever) unique id..
When i installed these games, they already act like i already have an account and will not let me login with my user(one account per device). My question is how do i change my id? If i used the id from my phone would it just act as a clone? Im fairly android literate but i cant quite figure exactly what i need to do to (or exactly explain my delima) any help or direction would be appreciated ~evil

I'm not sure how to change this, I only learned of it the other day. The Swype Beta uses the ID to register you for the beta, so if you lack one like we do then it won't work and say its unsupported. The IDs are usually unique and only appear on "phones" (devices with cell capability). However, HTC and Samsung have applied one ID to all of one device so this breaks some programs. This leads me to believe we lack the ID entirely. If you find out where the programs are looking and how to add or change the ID make sure to post the information up for everyone.
Good luck!

Found it. find and install Android ID changer. It allowed me to do what I needed.
That's what I needed to change. Somehow someone else had to have the same as mine, hard to believe but that had to be the case. Not sure if its the same thing swype is looking at though