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Linux Port for HTC Vox

Hi!
Since last week, I've been working on an usable kernel for the HTC Vox. I guess you've already looked at this post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368014&page=5
More or less, I have a working kernel. I've tested some images against the modified kernel, and both Gpe and Opie get to the welcome screen (without getting stucked). Nothing is really usable, as they're not even compiled for this specific platform (cannot get to compile opie for arm by myself... yet), but as a base, it's not bad at all.
As I've seen on my previous post, there's people interested on this (3300 views make me believe that), what I would want to know is, are there more developers interested on building a linux port for the Vox? Testers will be needed also, but later, when we get to something useful for testing
If you're interested, reply!

Cannot help u develop anything here, but would be a willing tester for it... thoroughly

I'd love to help, but I'm in the middle of moving to a new place and won't have internet most of the time next 2 weeks.
Do you have a Wiki or other place for collaberating? SourceForge perhaps?
I do have a wiki, but upload is no faster than around 80kB/s

In case you haven't seen it, you have a new build of the kernel on the other post, along with links and a little manual to start a graphic environment on the vox.
@barth666, @StefanHamminga
I've been thinking about it, and... I don't know what to do I mean, I think Sourceforge is the best place to dump it all, and it gives us a wiki too. On the other side, here is the xanadux wiki, and maybe it would be a good idea to let sourceforge host the files, and leave the wiki in here with other HTC phones... what do you think?
Oh! For GPIO dumping, the only thing I've seen working is the linwizard project's Haret_Omap.exe (in case you want to try to guess where the damned keys are )
PS: Anyone has an HTC Tornado? I'd love to know if the tornado kernel makes the leds and vibrator flash, I can't find where they are!

biktor_gj said:
PS: Anyone has an HTC Tornado? I'd love to know if the tornado kernel makes the leds and vibrator flash, I can't find where they are!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a tornado (and vox and wings), so tell me what to test

I know from the ml_iPod wiki (I am the admin) that SourceForge is really slow and the Php and Sql versions are old, in case you want to set up something like MediaWiki! You might want to try http://code.google.com/ , it has a built in Wiki and you can host files!
Just a suggestion
Keep up the good work
EDIT: I could even set one up, if you want, but I am not into coding at all!

Hi! Sorry for the delay, but I'm having lots of work this week and I've been unable to keep on with this...
@Walram: On the following days I'll try to build a kernel for you, wich should put all the lights on and makes the phone vibrate until you take the battery out Obviously just for testing, it shouldn't break anything, but I need to know if the originally-made-for-the-tornado vibrator and led drivers actually work on the tornado... Thanks!
@Frauhottelmann
Didn't know that google gave that service too! will look at it this weekend and post back when I have something done with this.. thanks for the feedback!

walram said:
I have a tornado (and vox and wings), so tell me what to test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
Ok, here's what I want you to try. If you haven't downloaded it yet, download the Linux Test Image:
http://rapidshare.com/files/93938763/test.zip.html
Then, download the kernel for the tornado:
http://rapidshare.com/files/96145010/kernel_tornado_driver.tar.gz.html
Dump the contents of the first file to the memory card, and then overwrite the file "zImage", with the one from the second link. Run haret, and hit "Run".
It should, at least, boot. If it doesn't, tell me where it gets frozen (could be that you only se some dots on the screen, whatever appears, just tell me )
If it boots, don't stop looking at the leds (charge/bluetooth leds mainly), they should, at least, flash -theorically they should stay on all the time-. It also should vibrate, at least for a quarter of second
I just need to know what it actually does!
Thanks!

So what about a dev-page? Then you don't need to upload it to Rapidshare and you can see the progress better!

Hi frauhottelmann,
I'm going to tell you the truth. I think it would be better if it's you who admins a site for this project than if I do, for various reasons:
1. I started all this thing, but I'm no owner of anything, by now I just hacked four things to make this phone boot a kernel, but no more.
2. I've seen your work at the ml_ipod sourceforge page, and think it's usable, clean, and nice, and I think that's exactly what we would need (even if it's a little slow just as you stated in your previous post). I could make the graphics for the web (I'm quite decent at photoshop), but I have never built a wiki, or a project anywhere else, and I don't know a sh** about it, so that would be another big thing to learn, and for now, I gotta learn more about the linux kernel, and that itself it's huge.
3. I don't think I can handle work, classes, building patches, kernels and bootstrap images and administrate a site, it feels like too much for me
Conclussion? I think it's better to let people do what does better, and I'm quite sure you'll do it better than I, so if you want, it's all yours
PS: In any case, we will need a name for the project, any suggestions?

What I have heard from the ml_iPod developers is that upload to SF is not a nice process either. I still think Google code is better, although it's not as customizable as SF.net. But we could also set up a page on Googlepages (pages.google.com) and then point to the Google code site with the Wiki and downloads!

I can offer my technical know-how (SPL, GPIOs, etc.)
Since I have little time you should ask me precise questions for which I can try to find the answers.

Sorry for the delay...
frauhottelmann said:
What I have heard from the ml_iPod developers is that upload to SF is not a nice process either. I still think Google code is better, although it's not as customizable as SF.net. But we could also set up a page on Googlepages (pages.google.com) and then point to the Google code site with the Wiki and downloads!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we can start using google code, and stick with it if it goes well. We can always change the hosting if something goes wrong! About the wiki, the easiest thing is start with google code too, and simply link the xda wiki to it...

i can't code, but i can keep you company maybe
i am here if help is nedeed

But what name do we want to use?
Linux for Vox?

LinVox !
how does that sound ?
just kidding
waiting to get linux running on my vox....

But what name do we want to use?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hooked on Vonix!

vonix sounds ok
can also try "Mobile TUX"

wow
this is an incredible news ! linux on the Vox !
I'd love to flash mine with a movibuntu distro =)

How do you guys feel about splitting the project up in several subprojects?
Like:
Kernel and driver work: TI OMAP HTC Vox board patch and perhaps drivers
Base system: minimal rootfs and toolkit to utilize all Vox functionality
Usability: GUI and (for instance) Android support
This would also enable us to share the base system & usability work with other 'linux on smartphone' and embedded projects.
I do have a suggestion for the base system:
www.emdebian.org
Very up to date build toolchain for arm (GCC 4.x toolchains) and you can have apt support on the base rom. This would allow access to a huge amount of packages that can be used with relatively little effort. Others I've checked out are the new mobile ubuntu (system requirements way to high), MontaVista (severe lack of proper documentation to get up to speed quickly), uClinux (uses ulibc instead of the faster full fledged one, in my opinion we'd better trade some storage for more speed) and some others I can't remember now...
PS. I've got internet at my new place and I've recovered my bricked wizard from the 'spare electronics bin', so finally I can spend some more time on this

The case for a "loaded" cooked ROM?

Hey all...
So I have been in the Kaiser forums for about a week now and have played around with some of the ROMs out there. My previous device was a PPC-6700. On that device there was a ROM and an Extended ROM. To the best of my experience, I never played with the ROM, but I did unlock the extended ROM and remove many of the bloatware cabs. I also set up some file (I can't remember the name, but it was similar to the UC option) which would allow my own CABs placed in the extended ROM to be auto-installed. In this way we were able to distribute the phones to employees with only the software we wanted (for instance, with our company cert pre-loaded and TCPMP to play back cisco VMs).
While I understand the interest in "cooking" a ROM to get all the latest and greates components (WM version, Radio, etc.) from the various ROMs into one uber-ROM, I'm not sure I see the advantage of adding in all the additional pieces of software.
From my viewpoint, I would think that a ROM should be as clean as possible, this would present a nice base for users to customize. Instead of "cooking" all the files for other components (plugins, menu replacements, voice command, SIPs, etc) into the ROM, why not just provide these as CABs either within the ROM or as a separate download alongside the ROM?
This would allow not only users to choose what to add, but also allow them to remove an installed CAB if they no longer want to use it or if a new one comes along.
I understand part of the allure of a cooked ROM is that the cook has ensured all the components work together... and in my scenario this would still be the case. The ROM would be qualified and shipped with a certain set of applications, but that doesn't mean they all need to be installed.
Another argument I hear for using a cooked ROM is that all the apps are already installed and it doesn't take time to reinstall all the apps. However, with UC, can you not just load all CABs onto an SD and have them all autoinstall? I am pretty sure you can write a file that will install a set of cabs even from local storage. While I understand that this might take a couple minutes more initially, I think the time saved in the long run would be equal or more. For instance, it might take me 10 minutes after I re-flash a base ROM to load another 15 CABs that I want. But, when a new version comes out of my application, or another application I want to install conflicts with something on there, I can easily uninstall the CAB. Small changes to the configurations can also be made without cooking a new ROM.
Now I fully appreciate all the work the cooks on this site have done. I think their work is great. What I am suggesting is an alternative methodology and one that is certainly not new. I am the type of person who likes a very clean build, but also enjoy the many features that are offered with some of the busier ROMs. I feel that having a base build and then simple a suite of approved or offered CABs make the whole process cleaner.
I am trying to understand how the mindset evolved here to make these feature rich ROMs instead of the alternative. The main argument I have heard is that it is quicker to just flash a ROM with all apps rather than load each one. As I have addressed that above, I don't think that the time savings are significant in comparison to the flexibility of modular CABs.
Perhaps there are additional advantages to the current approach that I have overlooked and I would be interested in hearing them.
tell me your thoughts?

wow......all that writing and all you are suggesting that cooks put out some clean roms? arent those already available?

lmfao flash your own clean rom, flash your own choice of radio, tweak on your own, etc...

Do you ever contribute anything worthwhile to threads or do you just prefer to be a sarcastic jerk?
I realize there are some clean ROMs out there...that wasn't the full scope of the post.
The "clean" ROMs are indeed what I would prefer, however that leaves the user going around hunting for all the applications and additions they desire. (And don't use the argument that the user is lazy if they don't spend the time to do this...after all that is what the "cooked" roms allow the user to be...lazy).
The alternative is the loaded ROM which has everything chosen by the cook. The user can't uninstall a component he may not want, or if it causes conflicts with something else.
The middle ground is what I am advocating...a clean ROM but offered with either "built-in" cabs or a separate repository. This would allow the user to install what they wanted (or install it all...then removing what they don't find useful). This would also allow easier updates in between major cooked releases.
I am not stating one way is definitively better, just that at some point someone decided to cook it all in rather then just offer the cab files, and I am looking for the advantage over my alternative.
What would even be nice (and if I knew how to code for PPC I would look to do it!) would be a little menu app that could manage installs from a repository either on your SD card or even online! So you could browse a list of available apps, versions, and descriptions and load it right up. These repositories would then be what the cooks spent time compiling, even offering "Suites" of applications that complement each other well.
As I stated in my original post I am very thankful for the work that others have contributed here and am not belittling their accomplishments in any way. I am just trying to understand how and why things have evolved to their current situation since, if I were to have the time and knowledge I see my framework as more workable (IMHO).

My personal opinion
That's one of the best presented arguments I've seen in a while Bengalih.
Completely agree with all your reasons for preferring a clean ROM over a loaded one - particularly the ability to update applications as and when a new cab is released. While this is the best answer for you (as you state) and in all probability every person with the willingness to go and look for the latest version of everything, I personally still prefer the loaded ROM. I simply prefer the least amount of time between a Hard Reset and being fully back up and running - in my case as long as it takes me to type in my Exchange server details. I try to cook in applications without any bugs that do what I want, so I won't need that newer version (just want it) and if a newer version does come out I can easily bake it into another ROM and be back up and running from start to finish within half an hour (mostly).
While you're completely correct in everything you say - I'm one of the fundamentally lazy people (seriously, check out my ROM's v1.3 intro - that's the word I use to describe why I built it) and so I tend to prefer loaded ROMs.

the way i see it, we cook a rom to have our ideal base. Things where we meet the minimum. The minimum for me must have HTC home, office, tomtom, the games that I always play, which is a whole variety, pim backup, and battery status. When I have my clean base, I just add my packages, which doesn't even take me long at all. If something screws up, we flash our cooked rom, and we don't have to worry about flashing a clean base and adding all our cabs. My roms include a lot of apps, but thats what I expect from my base. Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.

Thanks for your reply Stu...a perfect example of how one can disagree with an opinion while being completely civil. It seems many other members of this forum can learn from your example.
I'm still not 100% sure I agree with the time you save by having everything cooked in. As you admit, if you want to upgrade an app you would basically cook a fresh ROM with the new package in it and take up to 30 mins. To be honest I would think that you could load ALL your cabs in well under 30 minutes (the first time) and then it takes about 1 minute to upgrade a cab if a new version comes out.
Of course it depends on how often you do each. If you really find yourself reloading your ROM alot...let's say once a week, you might have saved yourself 10-20 mins each time since you don't need to load CABs. However if you instead wanted to upgrade 4 apps, you have saved yourself 30 mins each time from having to recook the ROM.
I guess another thing I don't understand about the argument for the fully loaded ROM is how often are you really re-flashing your ROM? While I understand someone may do this frequently if they are testing ROMs, how often do you really need to re-flash your ROM once it is running with the apps you like (and/or cooked in)?
Also, I believe your opinion is slanted (and not in a bad way) because you obviously cook your own ROMs. Because of this you can customize it the way you want since you have total control. Some of the cooks on here seem to be people like you who then just turn over their ROM for others to use, while other cooks seem to be making ROMs to please the population. Not saying either is a bad thing...just what I notice.
I haven't cooked my own ROM yet (though I have read through the tutorials). I believe however that even after I have decided on everything I want that I won't cook a loaded ROM (if i cook one at all). I would prefer to just put all the CABs i use in a directory and if i ever rebuild just load them all back on, or possibly create a UC script to load them all off my storage card.
Although I still don't really see the advantage of the fully loaded ROM (unless of course you tend to A) reflash your ROM frequently (for what reason?) and B) Tend to not want to upgrade CABs frequently)... to each his own.
thanks!

thomassster said:
Having cabs doesn't seem as clean. I see your point, but cooking your own rom, you don't feel like trying anyone elses roms because the rom is exactly the way you want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's funny you say that thomas... because i feel opposite. I feel that with the cooked ROMs it seems that many things just get dumped into the Windows directory instead of being put into individual Program folders. In addition, with no uninstall option it gives me a non-clean feeling
I see your point of course on just building the base the way you want and it makes sense if you don't feel you will want to upgrade an individual component.
I guess I am generally they type that like to go and get the newest version of an app if it is available and would find the process quicker if i could just upgrade the CAB.
Also, as stated above, once I find a config I like I don't know why I would reflash my ROM on any type of frequent basis.

There are additional reasons why certain applications cooked into ROMs aren't always your best alternative.
This is when certain applications (e.g., TomTom, MobiTV & XMRadio) require specific directories for installation. If cooked into the ROM, it will occupy twice the amount of space, since all files are placed in \Windows and through initflashfiles.dat get copied to other locations (e.g., \Program Files\MobiTV). Chefs that know about this avoid cooking these apps into their ROMs.
As for ROMs & which way is better, it's a matter of personal taste. Some folks prefer different levels of clean, and others prefer different levels of full. Some people won't flash unless a cube is included. It's pretty much why I release 8 different versions...

Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input

bengalih said:
Thanks _Alex_,
Yes that speaks to my point to a degree.
It seems that most cooks don't use INITFLASHFILES.TXT to move applications to a specific directory (under \Program Files) and just let everything sit in \Windows. I was under the impression that INITFLASHFILES could MOVE the files and not just COPY, so thanks for clearing that up. Would it not be possible to execute some sort of script to delete the unnecessary files from Windows and add reg entries to allow programs to be listed in add/remove? Of course this would be additional work for the cook but would really provide the best of both worlds.
I realize you have alot of time and experience invested in your methods (which we all appreciate). But, it would seem to me that instead of cooking 8 ROMs you could cook a base and then offer CAB installation suites as I mention. With either a custom menu install app like I suggest, or UC scripts the process can be automated.
I am not necessarily suggesting that you change how you do things (since you do it so well D), but I just throw this idea out there in case any experienced cooks, or even newcomers agree with my method they are welcome to give it a try.
thanks for your input
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The method you describe has been mentioned before in other threads and quite possibly in its own thread. (The topic was UC packs, CAB packs or something like that)
There are three cons with that method:
Which cabs to include are subjective, so it's much easier for an individual to gather his/her own cabs
Creating CABs can be a serious pain in the ass, especially if you have 50 OEM packages that need converting and/or fixing for the specific ROM you're building
Cross ROM / device support, which frequently occurs when CABs are released.
On the other hand, with a cooked ROM, you know it works because the chef ( andhis beta tester(s) ) spent the time to test it on the same/similar device and on a specific OS build. ROMs give a better experience overall because of this testing.
FWIW, I've thought about doing what you mention above waaay back with my first UltraClean ROM, but as stated, serious PITA
*SHRUG* Perhaps I'll re-consider it in the future too...
edit: Alltheway used to offer UC packs. Not sure if he still does on his 4shared folder...

I have, personally, always preferred a clean ROM. Yes, it takes some time to set it up the way you want it but, at least, that way, I am not stuck with applications I do not use. If I were to cook a ROM, I would cook it the way I want it and then distribute it. Most cooks here do just that. I would be happy if every cooks released a clean ROM but that is not possible. If cooking ROMs were a full-time job for these cooks, then, I would definitely demand one. So, the way I feel it, if I am lazy or not good enough to cook my own ROMs then I should stick with what has been released and not complain.

@ sherpa:
Perhaps you should go back and re-read my posts. Not once did I "demand" or "complain" about anything that any cook has put out. In fact more than once did I thank and compliment them on all their work. The fact that you state you would "demand" a ROM a certain way if this was the cook's full time job show that it is you more than I who feel that they are, or might be, owed something from these contributors. I fully realize that many cooks are just putting out their own personal ROMs to the masses, but there are plenty of them out there that are also looking to please the community and offer something different. It was to these people that I thought my message might resonate and someone might want to try something like it. As _Alex_ suggested others have thought similarly at somepoint (including himself), so I am not alone in my thoughts. So before you accuse me of complaining, you should re-examine my own words and yours.
@_Alex_
Thanks for the thoughts. I see all the points you are making. However I would argue that point #1 and #3 happen whichever method you choose. A cook is subjective when choosing which CABs to add to a loaded ROM as well. In addition, a single ROM is also device dependent whether it is fully loaded or not. I feel your pain on point #2 about creating CABs... you helped me out in another thread as I created a CAB of the latest Remote Desktop client (with drive mapping support) from the latest AT&T test ROM. I agree that for the cook that would be an extra effort although in many cases most of the CABs are already out there.
Again, I am making a recommendation as to a new (or old?) way to approach this. It sounds like it would be good for the user, but more work for the cook. Of course the current methods are well established, so even if my idea has merits it would most likely encounter some resistance (and as seen already by some, accusations and ignorance.) I still like the idea of an online (or off) repository with a little front-end on the device. The repository can be loaded with approved CABs which can be loaded and unloaded off the device.
In the long run, I don't think it will matter much for me individually, as I will most likely use an available clean build, an RTM ROM, or maybe cook my own. But in any case, I will stick with CABs, and just hope that the ones i need are available or I am able to create them myself (which is exactly what I did for Remote Desktop).
thx!

Dude, I never accused you of complaining. When I wrote "not complain", I meant it to the general population who complain about what's included and what's not included.

No offense meant, no offense taken then. Based on how this thread started out I guess I was just in a defensive mind-set.
We all good

ok bro bengalish
you are just quiet right , i understand your point and i also think that thought cookers make a great work to interduce a room that is useful for everyone but it still better to get a clean room and that's because a simple reason , you will never be able to make everyone happy because simply everyone of us has his owen taste
but i would like to describe what a clean room means ..
i belive it should contain main updates that everyone will need i mean updates like camera , sound and system etc..
i have to thank you for this rich argue and much greeting for you
and i hope really everyone in this forum can show little respect and kindness for the others
cheers

Yes haam,
I would prefer to see more frequent ROMs that have all the base stuff updated (latest BT, VC, etc). And not have the cooks spend as much time with the additional applications as many people will want to do customization here. To the main point, I think there are alot more people out there who can cook an application CAB then cook a ROM with all the latest drivers properly implemented. In my framework the cooks can focus on an up to date clean ROM and the assistant chefs (many in the community) could work on CABs.
Of course I fully acknowledge that there is a segment here (cooks included) that they want everything loaded from the get go and don't really care about additional customization. If that is the majority then things will stay status quo. If not, maybe we will see more people working on UC or CAB packs or something to that effect.
thanks for everyone's thoughts!

Research and development, what do you prefer from a cooked rom???

THIS THREAD IS SPECIFICALLY FOR RESEARCH
So im already thinking of ideas for my next rom when the obvious occured to me, everyone has different needs. So why not try to appeal to everyone instead of just a select few.
And to the other chefs out there. This poll may help you do the same, by finding out what people want.
So here are the questions i am posing to everyone.
1. Fully loaded. This would be a rom that has alot of popular apps cooked in as well as some lesser known apps. This is something that doesnt fit everyones needs, but it also gives some unknown apps a chance to shine.
2. Medium build. This would be a rom that has just the basic's (but still built along popular apps). This would be something that includes media players and the plugins to support it (ie things like the flash bundle).
3. Business edition. This would be a rom that is built for business users in mind. it would be almost completely stripped except would still have office built in. Would also include opera. But the rest would be clean.
4. stripped build. This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install.
I am also going to be working on a way to try to support other languages so that no one is left out. i havent officially started this yet, but will probably start ripping into some of these options this weekend. So i would appreciate input from other chefs out there on their experiences of making a WWE rom compatible with out languages.

Since this is a question that will help everyone and including the chefs, i am going to temporarily stick this.

Personally since I have at&t, my preferences would be:
1. Based on an at&t build.
2. Fully loaded.
3. Bluetooth and MSVC compatible.
But all of that is worthless without stability. The biggest mistake I see most cooks do is to be too quick to come out with the next version of their ROM too quickly. Make sure you listen to your users and tried to get all of the bugs fixed before you start trying to upgrade software and creating more bugs for yourself.

cragordon said:
Personally since I have at&t, my preferences would be:
1. Based on an at&t build.
2. Fully loaded.
3. Bluetooth and MSVC compatible.
But all of that is worthless without stability. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there we go, that's y I voted for Stripped.

Maybe i should have added another poll option that said:
"Who cares as long as its stable" lol

the_passenger said:
there we go, that's y I voted for Stripped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you have a point I should have thought of that before I voted. Most of the time the fully loaded ROMs don't have much stability. I don't think stripped is the answer either thought simply for the fact that the media player and stuff should be default according to his description stripped doesn't have ANYTHING @all

shogunmark said:
Maybe i should have added another poll option that said:
"Who cares as long as its stable" lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I second that motion.

cragordon said:
I guess you have a point I should have thought of that before I voted. Most of the time the fully loaded ROMs don't have much stability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to disagree with that statement. And i can only speak for myself, however when i do my fully loaded builds this ensures me that most of the popular apps are already working. And honestly i think that a stripped version would be open to more bugs because now your manually ripping everything out and leaves more room for errors. But thats just my personal opinion, this is why i made this poll.

Fully Loaded 2.0
Been reading these threads for the past three/four months. There is so much to offer with each variation of ROM, that I find it hard to keep up. Hasitant at first, but now I find myself flashing on a weekly basis. I agree about stability but having all the hot toys with some space left over and nice speed make all the more joy. Themes and all that can be added later and I haven't found them to lead to bug issues.
Keep doing what yall do... and we'll keep eating. Much respect to the Chefs!!

shogunmark said:
I tend to disagree with that statement. And i can only speak for myself, however when i do my fully loaded builds this ensures me that most of the popular apps are already working. And honestly i think that a stripped version would be open to more bugs because now your manually ripping everything out and leaves more room for errors. But thats just my personal opinion, this is why i made this poll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see that point of view also. I have never tried one of your ROMS so I cant say. Well at least not on my kaiser i havent.

I would have to say medium because its a combination have having all the common stuff built in without any hassle to the users while still giving enough room left too customize.

I'd like to say a mixed between
Fully Loaded + Stripped
may sound stupid but hear me out
stripped build. "This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install."
but with recommendations of new apps so it "gives some unknown apps a chance to shine."
o and with office left in
but thats just me
while on the subject wats the difference (in terms of speed and stuff) if you for e.g. have
1. 6.1 rom with office cooked in
2. 6.1 rom with office installed after

i voted business because i like a nice little rom but everything already working out of the box i.e camera, office, and the other basics. In a business rom i don't like the idea of having htc home/hcc (just my opinion) as there are programs better than that and each user should have the option to install/uninstall htc home.
Didn't vote stripped because than the camera is removed and for me all the hardware needs to be functioning on a rom. I love multimedia roms (fully loaded) but i like installing everything to my storage card so thats why i didn't vote for that particular category.

I personally like fully loaded roms best, as long as they retain speed and stability!!!! Business builds are also nice, b/c of customization, but I agree with thesire in that stripped builds are just TOO naked, I need the camera! So if I have to pick just one, I pick fully loaded!

plz cook the WWE as well... dont be bias to att.... ^_^

Business + Flash Bundle - Opera
shogunmark said:
. . .
2. Medium build. This would be a rom that has just the basic's (but still built along popular apps). This would be something that includes media players and the plugins to support it (ie things like the flash bundle).
3. Business edition. This would be a rom that is built for business users in mind. it would be almost completely stripped except would still have office built in. Would also include opera. But the rest would be clean.
4. stripped build. This would be no 3rd party apps and most oem apps ripped from the build. would include ripping out office and java and would give the user the most choices of what they want to install. . .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I voted stripped because I like to have as much room as possible to add in what I want and not have to worry about Memory vs. Storage Card, but from your descriptions what I would really like, is Business edition with Flash Bundle, but without Opera. I use Office like crazy, esp. Excel, and I want to be able to use TCPMP, and Java apps.
Thanks for doing this survey!

I posted "Who cares, as long as it's stable" meaning speedy, too I like everything up and running w/ room to spare, but that's a bit of an oxymoron. I installed everything I could to my storage card, figured out what continued to work from there after flashing, and most everything does (but not all...).
Lean, stable, fast works best for me. I load a bunch of Spb stuff on, and run the rest from my card. But I do like playing w/ new toys, so the fully loaded is good too. Medium fits my routine quite well. Even small works. So, who cares? As long as it's stable and fast, I can tweak and trick out the rest.
BTW, I LOVE Death, thanks so much for that!!!

I have been around for awhile, and I have learned so much from this rom flashing fixation that we all have.... Personally I try all of the roms out, then I dump ,em and take the packages I want and keep them in my kitchen , and add what I liked from each rom to my own "reheated" (I am no cook) rom. Sashimi has sure made my life easier!! So it is really hard for me to pick... I like the loaded ones, because I can snag new packages, but I like the stripped ones, so I can add my own packages. Some (most) programs use less memory when cooked than when installed from a cab file. Some programs just seem to run better when cooked, some run better with cab files... You cooks just keep doing what you are doing, because I like them all, any way you cook it!!
And by the way since I might possibly have the great Shogun's attention for a minute... how do you make that tsk file so frickin' black? I think I might have actually been the originator of the glossy black bars.cab (check my BootScreen thread) but the reason I made it was because the .tsk file could not keep the 160 saved in the registry. But your bars are black and have no highlight color... how do you do that?!

Research Poll
I would go for maximum flexibility - which in my mind means we should develop and cook a stripped, stable ROM with all of the bells and whistles as CABs that have been fully vetted and tested for stability, capability AND Viri/malware). The problem is (as is always the case), what is one man's garbage is another's man's treasure. I need a basic phone, bluetooth (hands free automobile work), contacts and calendar. WiFi is extra to me, but not to the next guy and gal. What I worry about is building "fully loaded" ROMs that end up being no different than Tilt's maddeningly bloated original AT&T ROM. Just give me the basics and I will download, cook or buy the add ons I need.
This probably means we need to restructure the poll to individually list the myriad possible and current functions of a Phone/PDA and then let individuals have, say, 10 votes and after a few weeks add up the votes and choose to incorporate into a ROM the top 10 items and all else would be developed as add-on CABs.
Just my $00.02

In real estate it is location, location, location.
In ROMs it is stability, stability, and features.
At least this is true for me, YMMV.
In detail - While I do like playing around with new ROMs, especially when I find new programs that I really like, I use my phone primarily as a business tool (e-mail, calender, etc), and secondarily as an entertainment device. My web surfing from my phone is moderate, and mostly limited to RSS feeds and then the articles behind them. I do use it as a mp3/video player on flights, but not in the car since I have XM, and I have a Tom Tom, so I only use the GPS when I forget that! My other consideration is that I have not found myself even close to worrying about memory space on the Kaiser and I usually install programs to the device for stability purposes.
So... what does all this mean for what I prefer in a ROM? Well, it means that since I can use Kaiser Kitchen, my top preference is a clean ROM that I can easily add packages to. That being said, the packages need to fully functional and stripping them from the ROM shouldn't cause other issues. My previous fave was _Alex_'s 6.0, but i have not been able to find a similar 6.1. So, if you loaded rom folders and OEM and add on package folders, that would be most awesome. Then I can choose what I want to add in (things like office that are not likely to change now, and other programs that I know are version stable) and add the other programs that I have to have but that version change all the time (phoneAlarm)
But - since that is quite possibly harder than just cooking a ROM (and not nearly as rewarding) my preference is either a business or a medium depending on what was in the medium. These are also given bonus points, since as someone pointed out, stripping out certain key applications like the camera, usually leads to stability degradation.
My $0.03 (more than 2 cents worth of typing here)

List of Cooked ROMs?

This is my 3rd post ever here, so please be gentle.
Crogon said:
I can't seem to find it now, but didn't there used to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs here somewhere?
I think what I'm aiming at is a fully patched / hacked 6.1 HTC ROM with everything fixed and no bugs. Preferably minus any bloatware. If it has recommended utilities pre-installed great, if not, no big loss. Did they ever finish hacking a video driver together? I lost track of that thread, and can't seem to find any current info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update: I found a tidbit somewhere that says the newest video driver updates should be cooked into the newest ROMs.. but how do I figure out which ones have all the bug patches and hacks installed, and etc. like I mentioned above? I know there USED to be a list of pre-cooked ROMs, but I can't find it now.
Hmm.. Am I maybe thinking of a list of pre-cooked ROMs for the Wing, or some other HTC? If I am, I'm DEFINITELY going to need some ROM recommendations.
Here are my stats, if it helps any:
rom version 3.57.502.2 WWE
rom date 7/17/08
radio version: 1.65.21.18
protocol version: 25.88.40.05H
tri-color screen
KAIS1*0
SPL-3.56.Hard
CPLD-8
.
.
Serial
image version 3.57.502.2
R 1.65.21.18
G 25.88.40.05H
D 3.57.00.00
Thanks again for any help!

if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say

mazin13 said:
if u really want a good cooked rom i suggest you try Garmins roms....they have the latest htc drivers built in...
thats all i can say
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he DOESN'T WANT a cooked rom he is looking for a pre-cooked rom.
@op did you check the kaiser wiki or htc's website?? 'cuz that is where you will find all the latest roms for your device that aren't cooked by a chef.

Also, look around for mbavrian's Kitchen Elements.
The "Base ROMs" on which our Chefs makes their gourmet meals are difficult to locate. Some chefs refuse to share like little playground children.
Others, Like NotATreoFan, have released their base for other people to use to make ROMs. Great Contributors.

Woops!
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.

Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never seen one and I don't believe one exists. You'll just have to do your own research.

Crogon said:
I guess I stated that incorrectly. Sorry!!
Actually I DO want a custom 'Cooked' ROM. My main purpose of reflashing the ROM is to get rid of all known bugs and bloatware. So I WANT all the custom registry hacks and patches to make everything run smoothly. I want the hacked video drivers (as they appear to currently be stable) and etc..
SO.. I'm looking for:
1) 6.1 OS with fast drivers and all known hacks and patches to have as few bugs as possible. UNLESS 6.1 has introduced some known bugs that can't be fixed (wouldn't surprise me with an MS product). IF there's a bug free FASTER version 5 OS, that will run on the Tilt, I'll be happy with that. One time I installed Win95 on a 1.6Ghz T-bird. Power on to fully loaded desktop was like 2 seconds flat.
2) bloatware removed so as to free up space, and I assume cleaning crap out of the registry wouldn't hurt with speed. Is there a system cache, and would it be beneficial to move it to the SD card? I've read that moving the IE cache to the SD card is asking for trouble, not sure that there's a concensus on that or if it's just opinion though.
OK.. that's going to get confusing. Scratch that and start over:
1) All known bugs hacked or patched.
2) All known speed enhancements (that don't compromise system integrity).
3) Rip out MS (or HTC ..or both?) crapware that COULD be replaced with faster / more functional counterparts.
4) Optional: pre-installed or at least packaged (cab?) applications to enhance functionality. My priority in applications is utility enhancement. Example: I can download 200 Flash / Java / MAME games to the SIM card some day if I get bored, don't need it in the OS. However, if there's a remedial photo editing utility that will allow me to edit my pics before I upload them somewhere, I want it.
I did manage to stumble across a wiki page last night: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
32 Developers and countless ROMs without any comparison isn't much help though. Can I assume all current ROMs are posted there?
Browsing through them, I recall that Alex's ROMs used to be the last word in ROMs, apparently dutty's were until he switched gears. HyperDragon seems to be terribly popular at the moment, but popular doesn't mean better.
I suppose I could try to gather all the available info into a giant spreadsheet, but the fact that about half the ROMs link out to a feature list is slightly discouraging. I think dutty's list of registry hacks ends in '.. and a bunch of other stuff I forgot', which is TERRIBLY discouraging (when trying to compare features).
Anyway, sorry if I'm rambling on here. Please don't take anything I'm saying as judgemental, I'm sort of thinking out loud trying to decide how best to proceed.
Say, has anybody considered building a CVS tree of sorts? I don't suppose you could have actual CODE stored in a repository without violating some sort of copyright or reverse engineering crap.. but a list of known code changes and etc. would seem to be a good idea. Since neither MS nor HTC has stepped up to the plate over the years, due to corporate greed, some sort of XDA-Dev code change tracking system seems like 'the last best hope' to get a decent OS. Ever.
That's why I'm jumping ship to try out the G1 after this. I don't believe MS will ever invest the effort to give us a 'business class' reliable bug free solution. ..let alone one that's innovative or even exceptional. They're style would lead me to expect them to wait till we have 800mhz handhelds, then 'patch' over top of everything they don't like to make it appear to behave better. ..and of course they would deem it necessary to add another programming layer to the OS to 'increase functionality' (read: bog down the OS).
Yup.. I'm definitely babbling now, so I'll just cut myself short.
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using? ..or one which already compares all the features, so I don't have to?
Better yet, Is there a ROM build specifically to fit what I'm looking for? I seem to recall Alex's were built somewhat similar, but the newest one is quite old now. Hmm.. there is no Windows Mobile revision list is there? I have no way of knowing which older versions would be good, and when bug patches were introduced and etc.
Oh well, guess there's nothing to do but dive in head first and start putting together the best feature list I can with what resources I have.
Thanks for any help! ..and if you read this whole thing, thanks for putting up with my rambling, lol.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to spend some time and TRY each ROM and see which one is suited for you.
Again, READ and spend time.
Read WIKI especially.
There is no 100% perfect ROM even if it is official one.

Crogon said:
I guess my bottom line questions are, Is there a more complete list of ROMs anywhere I should be using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Cooked_ROMs
If you want a newest list, you are always welcome to Update the wiki

I'm heading for the aspirin bottle just now. I spent like 3 hours reformatting the info on the wiki page into a spreadsheet.. when I discovered that some of the authors are still releasing, but it's not on the list!
AAHHH!!
So basically, A full up to date list is needed. Let alone version comparisons or features and bug fix lists.
Good grief.
No wonder most people opt to install ROMs randomly till they happen across one they like.
.. I think I'll make a new wiki page eventually. Something along the lines of a Kaiser ROM Feature Comparison page.
Do I get a XDA-Dev decoder ring if I actually finish it? lol

Polaris Android Linux Kernel Development Project

*** PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE INSTALLING OR FLASHING ANY SOFTWARE POSTED IN THIS THREAD ***
The software posted here is for TESTING purposes only, The Polaris Android Linux development team or any of the posters of software or links to software on this thread, take absolutely no responsibility or liability for damage caused by the result of installing or flashing software or links to software found on this thread - correctly or otherwise, you do so on the sole understanding that you do so at your own risk. A final version will be posted on completion of a version 1 kernel at which point testing and support for the kernel will be moved to a suitable thread. Please do NOT post support questions on this thread - this is a development thread ONLY.
Development work is sometimes done in the irc channel: #htc-linux. To follow the latest developements please read the daily logs which can be found at: http://irclog.iclem.net/?chan=htc-linux&day=13
Lastly, Please do not use bad language in your posts, I have my little girl with me most times and do not need her to read such things. Appreciate your understanding.
Update: We now have a few threads devoted to userspace (system images), This is a KERNEL DEVELOPMENT thread which is starting to get too big for devs to follow. The purpose of a good development thread is to serve as an archive and a blueprint for future developers and that is hard to do when you have hundreds of non-related posts. I have therefore asked the moderator to move all non-kernel posts to their appropriate threads.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
01-09-08 - new link to files for working wifi
http://www.4shared.com/dir/19593527/3cb53c3a/sharing.html
24-07-09 - If anyone is interested in making themed system images, he's posted this link to help you learn how to do it:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=471586
19-07-09 - New kernel with changes from Vogue branch released. I am currently testing radios and resolutions. List of resolutions from kaiser thread
15-07-09 - A revival in our development as meant we are now catching up with the other devices with development on the project. Thank you to all who donated to the purchase of development Polaris that will be used by vilord, from vogue forum to help us with the project.
Current developers:
Life02 - Fixed GPS, Working on Battery issues.
Vilord - On holiday, now in possession of a Polaris. Also working on Bluetooth.
Newbie16 - Fixed Wifi - need to add irq's.
05-07-09 - New 1.5 ION build of Android for the Vogue has been reported to work well for the Polaris and can be found on the Google Vogue repository. The new 1.5 builds are noticeably also faster and smoother than previous builds. Some troubleshooting info can be found at the Androidhtc website for these builds (thanks freddycs). APN details can be found on Wikipedia - (thanks Mormy)
Things that do NOT work at present:
Bluetooth - No - Working partially for Vogue
Wifi - WORKING! *NEW* - thanks to a lot of effort by my friend Newbie16 - thanks mate
Camera - No - Working for Vogue
GPS - now working thanks to life02! - Well done my friend
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A new thread for budding designers has been set up by Venigo, (thanks matey!) who will lead the design side of the Polaris Android project (kind of makes you a little emotional thinking we're at that stage where we can start thinking about wallpapers and themes doesnt it?) Thread can be found here: Polaris Linux Android - Wallpapers, Themes and Icons
UPDATES: - Please check the WIKI for up-to-date progress updates here: Android on Polaris WIKI (Thanks excogitation)
NEW TESTING AND BUG THREAD ANNOUCEMENT:
marcelkordek has kindly started a thread for testing and bug reporting as we now have an almost usable Android image which can be found here: Polaris Android Project - Testing and Bug Reporting The thread will also be used to provide updates on the progress of the Android kernel as well as providing feedback to the devs on the latest posted images. Please ensure that the Testing and Bug Reporting thread is used for reporting user experiences and enable to keep the development thread cleaner and make life easier for the devs, whom you will all agree are doing an excellent job to support our beloved device.
18/1/09 - Working Radio with calls at last! Audio and SMS still not working but GPRS does but with a bit of fiddling.
16/1/09 - SMD code is nearly fixed by DZO, Rogro82 will be making a new image soon. Most of the development at this time is being reported in the Kaiser forum: UPDATED!!! - Google Android and Linux for KAISER!! as DZO was sent a Kaiser and he is working on the issues on it.
5/1/09 - DZO is working to bring the Kaiser and Polaris branches together so that the kernel will work on all our devices. Waiting to see what changes are made.
1/1/09 - Rogro82 uploaded a "booting" 1.0 SDK along with source files and instructions (below). Although this is very much a work-in-progress, it is the first bootable version of the 1.0 SDK for the Polaris.
11/12 - DZO and rolk worked out some changes that may help us resolve the SD Card stability issue. Dwaradzyne posted up a Zimage with the changes for testing.
CPLD Handbook
GPIO Manuals
LATEST FILES USED FOR DEVELOPMENT:
1/1/09 - Latest files are packed in this archive - to boot simply unpack to the root of your sd card and run haret (included).
A big THANK YOU to Rogro82 for getting the 1.0 SDK booting on the Polaris
Enjoy!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIRST POST
I'll start with another simple question I cant find an answer to:
WHY CANT WE JUST PORT THE G1 ROM TO THE POLARIS?

#2 reserved for update

I will try to search too

I will try to put as simple as possible. Building a ROM requires combinig two parts:
1. Kernel/drivers part.
2. Applications and stuff.
In case of Windows Mobile part 1. in practice always comes from official HTC Polaris ROM. Part 2 comes from other official HTC ROM (could be other phone) and it can be modified by cooker.
We do not have a full working Polaris Android ROM, and we cannot just cook without part 1. Part 2 is available as Android sources are open.
The reason why we did not have 3d driver working on Polaris immediately after first Diamond ROM was available is that part 1. is not transferrable from one model to another.
Part 1. in Android is Linux kernel. We must get involved in Linux kernel developement for Polaris to bring Android to our phones.

why do we always want our phones to look like other phones. why cant we just be unique. we are windows mobile. TOP DOGG. i like windows mobile theme especially when its black. i like g1 but the design looks ancient. its not 2008 more like 1998

dortyboy said:
why do we always want our phones to look like other phones. why cant we just be unique. we are windows mobile. TOP DOGG. i like windows mobile theme especially when its black. i like g1 but the design looks ancient. its not 2008 more like 1998
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
absolutely agree. Copying iPhone was fun the first 2,3 months. Why not trying to develop really good apps with nice UIs and make own ideas into real interfaces for throttle launcher, M2D etc etc - posibilities are nearly endless.

i absolutely agree. i havent seen not one cool program thats actually usefull in our daily life for windows mobile not since i had a treo way back.
programs like directory; that could look at your number and tell u the owners name and adress
stuff like that. maybe tell u when zip code the call is coming from. useful programs. not the crappy programs that just try to make your phone look pretty.
thats why people go to iphone, the programs are useful in peoples daily life but not windows mobile

Here we go
ROM download :
Code:
http://rapidshare.com/files/155612986/Android_dump.rar

I think its a probleme with the boot loader and some part of the android code which isn't public

Have look here :
Code:
http://www.limofoundation.org/en/limo-press-releases/limo-foundation-statement-on-the-google-android-g1-handset.html

dortyboy said:
why do we always want our phones to look like other phones. why cant we just be unique. we are windows mobile. TOP DOGG. i like windows mobile theme especially when its black. i like g1 but the design looks ancient. its not 2008 more like 1998
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you new to the mobile device world?
We are not trying to get it to "look like the G1". We are talking about using a completely different operating system.. lol.. and you are talking about a black windows mobile theme and how the hardware of the G1 looks ancient.. lol..
Oh.. and "being unique" in this case would be having Android on a non G1 phone.. that would be unique. Windows mobile is not unique.

m.schmidler said:
absolutely agree. Copying iPhone was fun the first 2,3 months. Why not trying to develop really good apps with nice UIs and make own ideas into real interfaces for throttle launcher, M2D etc etc - posibilities are nearly endless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developing apps and trying to use resource hog throttle launcher is nothing close to having a brand new stable device operating system.

m.schmidler said:
absolutely agree. Copying iPhone was fun the first 2,3 months. Why not trying to develop really good apps with nice UIs and make own ideas into real interfaces for throttle launcher, M2D etc etc - posibilities are nearly endless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe we can develop better apps under Android?
Look at the apps currently available for iphone - hopefully Android will get better market penetration than Windows Mobile, and, because it's open source it opens up a whole range of possibilities for developers.
I say if it can be done, it should be done!

dwaradzyn said:
I will try to put as simple as possible. Building a ROM requires combinig two parts:
1. Kernel/drivers part.
2. Applications and stuff.
In case of Windows Mobile part 1. in practice always comes from official HTC Polaris ROM. Part 2 comes from other official HTC ROM (could be other phone) and it can be modified by cooker.
We do not have a full working Polaris Android ROM, and we cannot just cook without part 1. Part 2 is available as Android sources are open.
The reason why we did not have 3d driver working on Polaris immediately after first Diamond ROM was available is that part 1. is not transferrable from one model to another.
Part 1. in Android is Linux kernel. We must get involved in Linux kernel developement for Polaris to bring Android to our phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the idiots guide dwardzyne!
So that very clearly explains the kernel level requirement.
OK. Second question:
With regard to part 1 - Kernel/Drivers - Can we convert the vogue version since it seems to have the most work done to it? What would need to be done to it to make it work?

imfloflo said:
I think its a probleme with the boot loader and some part of the android code which isn't public
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a boot loader :
Code:
http://www.denx.de/wiki/U-Boot/WebHome

bally3 said:
Thanks for the idiots guide dwardzyne!
So that very clearly explains the kernel level requirement.
OK. Second question:
With regard to part 1 - Kernel/Drivers - Can we convert the vogue version since it seems to have the most work done to it? What would need to be done to it to make it work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed kernel developement for Kaiser and Polaris is based on Vogue work. It slowed down because of SD stability issue.

dwaradzyn said:
Indeed kernel development for Kaiser and Polaris is based on Vogue work. It slowed down because of SD stability issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the sd card issue has been resolved on vogue and they've moved onto other things (camera etc). but it seems like its the end of the road for the Polaris - apart from rumors that someones supposed to be sending a kaiser or a polaris to dzo for him to work from. This kind of points to that dzo is the only person on xdevs capable of working at kernel level with a kaiser or polaris?? That cant possibly be true - can it?

bally3 said:
I believe the sd card issue has been resolved on vogue and they've moved onto other things (camera etc). but it seems like its the end of the road for the Polaris - apart from rumors that someones supposed to be sending a kaiser or a polaris to dzo for him to work from. This kind of points to that dzo is the only person on xdevs capable of working at kernel level with a kaiser or polaris?? That cant possibly be true - can it?
Click to expand...
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He already has the knowledge... He wants to share his knowledge, if someone send him a Kaiser or Polaris, and will make it work... I thought there were plenty of users willing to send there old or half bricked kaiser or polaris... but still nobody send him one... as far as I know...
Nobody keeps nobody up to date in the kaiser thread... So I really don't know what is going on... But they still don't have a decent fix for the DMA (SD-Card read/write) problem (as far as I know).
Porting the G1 rom isn't a possibility, you first have to have drivers for our device, since we haven't got a driver to read/write to the internal memory (not the RAM), it still cannot boot .
I hope this project will really come of the ground finally... It's half way there... but still not finished (if you ask me, due to miscommunication and not working together of users, because they all want to be the first who got it working to show off with it... (so they are all working on the same piece of code, which is a waste of time if you ask me)).
Maybe one of us can contact DZO, check what he needs to continue our development. Because without the SD-Card driver we can't continue...

dubbeld00 said:
Maybe one of us can contact DZO, check what he needs to continue our development. Because without the SD-Card driver we can't continue...
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I'll contact him, I dont think there are many users who would just send a device worth a couple of hundred euros to a complete stranger though many would tell you they would at the time. With the P3D driver their was only one person who was willing to loan a unit for development - and that was only because they were in the same country. I was asking for ages before that.
is their any other way we could help him? surely the internal workings of a polaris rom coupled with the specs could be used if dzo would do what NuShrike did on the p3d driver which was tell us to try things he worked on? I'm sure there would be willing volunteers including myself who he could talk through it on the forums or on the #android room.

I can't offer to donate my polaris as its the only mobile I have.. but I would be more than willing to try things out on my xda or provide any other help possible to get this project moving.
Hopefully one day a fully working Android will be a reality on polaris