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Hey,
I know the admins and mods here have things to do other than admin and mod forums, but I really wish that more of the useful guides we have around here would be stickied. I'm particularly referring to the Magician Upgrade forum, where there are great ROM guides being continuosly pushed up and down the forum list. Also some handy apps in the Magician forum like this and this and threads in Magician accessories like the 4GB Compatibility Thread which have become very hard to find through casual browsing - and people might not even search for these things, as they wouldn't know that they existed!
All I'm asking is that, somehow, all of our useful guides and developments be kept in an easier spot to find, and then it may also reduce the number of ('confused users' ) who post ('unproductive') questions, ironically the very posts that bury these handy guides and developments!
It is quite irritating when I want to view the kaiser upgrading section and I have to scroll half way down the page just to view new threads. Would it be too hard to make 1 Kaiser sticky thread and link to the threads that are currently stuck within the first post?
Yeah, looks like we need a rollup thread here.
I agree, especially with all the 6.1 discussions, the Kaiser section is bloated. But the irony, even with have a page of stickers, newcomers still ask the same questions the stickies answer.
Judging by all of the questions we get, people aren't reading them anyways.
The wiki contains links to every thread stickied, so we only need a locked thread to say read the wiki before asking any question and the "posting and you video"
Well, we need to SITCKY this thread as it touchs on a very important issue! NO MORE STICKIES!
Most newcomers don't search or look at the stickies anyway so maybe 1 or 2 which contain the other stickies or point to the relevant part of the wiki would be better.
But, personally I'm not as tech savvy as most of you guys and I use them a hell of a lot either for myself or pointing others in the right direction - so don't lose them altogether.
If this is being tidied up - maybe we should start a new WM6.1 forum as well (suggested by others).
I second a WM6.1 thread all by itself!
I also agree this would be very helpful to have another thread just solely dedicated to WM6.1
People don't use the wiki enough because all that crap at the top makes people think that there isn't any relevant information.
It needs a TOC and more interpage linking. If nobody objects, I'll think about spending some time to make it alot better (somewhat like my pages)...
On the other hand, it'd be *ALOT* easier if Flar would just hurry up with that MediaWiki upgrade that was promised when she was hired
You know the downside to adding a WM6.1 section...half the posts in there will be about WM6.0 and half the posts in the 6.0 will be on WM6.1 because people don't pay attention to what they're doing.
Yes, yes I am a pessimist. Why? Because it is impossible for an optimist to be pleasantly surprised
We don't need another WM6.1 forum, we need less 6.1 dogfood
It's one of the reasons why I've decided to stop working on the WM6.1 ROMs and offer what I've done up to everyone, so that the best chefs actually improve on it.
Hopefully this will placate the need for people to post their own ROMs, because what everyone really wants to see is quality, not quantity.
_Alex_ said:
People don't use the wiki enough because all that crap at the top makes people think that there isn't any relevant information.
It needs a TOC and more interpage linking. If nobody objects, I'll think about spending some time to make it alot better (somewhat like my pages)...
On the other hand, it'd be *ALOT* easier if Flar would just hurry up with that MediaWiki upgrade that was promised when she was hired
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I agree with _Alex_ about the wiki. It'd be a lot more useful if it was laid out a bit better. I try to find all the information I need without asking questions and I find that his wiki pages are easier to deal with than the regular pages. If we could get the wiki straightened out, then we could collapse all the stickies into one with a series of wiki links in the first post.
just my .02eu (cause the USD sucks right now )
wm6.1 thread/section is pointless. What will that accomplish aside from more clusterfucked questions that will be asked in both upgrading and wm 6.1?
WM 6.1 doesn't distinguish it's own section it's not like what wm5 was to wm6 with the hermes or other devices.
in defense of the stickies, i'm quite new and have found almost every single one of them useful.
=)
I dread to think how many more n00b questions would clog up this forum if the stickies weren't there.
Admittedly a lot of people ignore them before posting, but I'd like to think that a quiet majority read them, get their questions answered, and dont bother the rest of us as a result...
Lets make a sticky out of this...!
we should just have two stickies - the first one being "NEWBIES: Read the Sticky Below Before Doing Anything", and the Second Sticky containing all of the stickies we have right now.
First off... sorry for the stream of consciousness writing...
I'm pretty much in agreement with most of you on this one. They currently take up almost half the page and though some of them are posted to quite often a lot of them are dead or closed. I like the idea of making the WIKI a lot more functional. Admittedly I got my Wizard just a few months ago (from a friend who upgraded) and that wiki was all I needed to get it CID unlocked, SIM unlocked and flashed...
I think two stickies is sufficient, the first telling Newbs to read the stickies and the wiki before posting questions and the second an editable list of posts that are considered sticky (though this sort of defeats the purpose of a wiki).
Maybe just a single Sticky that says:
Subject: BEFORE POSTING: Read the WIKI. Use the search function. Use Google.
Body: If you are new to this forum or have not yet done so, read the wiki <link>. It contains information on:
How to Flash a new ROM.
How to SIM Unlock your device.
How to CID Unlock your device.
Links to ROMs (original and cooked).
How to revert back to the original ROM and SPL.
How to cook/make your own ROM.
If you can't find your answer in the wiki....
Use the search function:
Try many different searches to find what you're looking for, start at the forum for your device and if you don't find an answer try the entire forum.
If you still can't find your answer...
Use Google:
type in your search word(s)/phrase and the site you want to search...
example: "sim unlock" kaiser site:xda-developers.com
If all else fails and you want to risk the potential ridicule and flaming of the more senior and sometimes jaded cooks/developers/professionals, you may post your question, but you should be damn sure you checked/tried all of the above before doing so.
Cheers...
I like the sticky, icky, icky
While browsing this forum, I've noticed that there are really two types of threads: (1) ROM Releases & (2) Help Requests/Questions. We also have threads such as "List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links...." which attempt to aggregate the releases, but do not appear to remain up-to-date. I was wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to separate the two by simply having a sub-forum dedicated to the releases. It would be much easier to get a grasp on what the current variety of cooked/official ROMs looked like, and would leave more of the first page of the "main" forum available for the help/question threads.
Any thoughts? Improved suggestions?
DISCLAIMER: This idea may have already been discussed in the past, and if so, please feel free to just say so and post a link to the relevant thread. No need to re-explain something that's already been talked through. I couldn't find anything on the topic when searching via Google.
I think this is a great idea. It can be overwhelming when I just want to see the ROM updates and I have to go sifting through other things as well.
Alamei said:
While browsing this forum, I've noticed that there are really two types of threads: (1) ROM Releases & (2) Help Requests/Questions. We also have threads such as "List of Kaiser Rom Threads and Download Links...." which attempt to aggregate the releases, but do not appear to remain up-to-date. I was wondering if it wouldn't make more sense to separate the two by simply having a sub-forum dedicated to the releases. It would be much easier to get a grasp on what the current variety of cooked/official ROMs looked like, and would leave more of the first page of the "main" forum available for the help/question threads.
Any thoughts? Improved suggestions?
DISCLAIMER: This idea may have already been discussed in the past, and if so, please feel free to just say so and post a link to the relevant thread. No need to re-explain something that's already been talked through. I couldn't find anything on the topic when searching via Google.
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That's actually a pretty good idea. They should be doing this to all forums in XDA-Developers.com. It will keep organization, less spamming of threads, and keep everyone happy. I think that this has already been discussed already, but I haven't seen any changes so it's a good thing you brought it back up again!
u know that sub forum will just eventually get clogged up with all other kind of threads and it will just be the same as it is with the kaiser upgrading forum now. we have a outdated wiki with some releases.......why dont you go ahead and add some stuff to that.
XtreMe_G said:
u know that sub forum will just eventually get clogged up with all other kind of threads and it will just be the same as it is with the kaiser upgrading forum now. we have a outdated wiki with some releases.......why dont you go ahead and add some stuff to that.
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Naturally rules should state the forum is only for new ROMS. Threads started relating to support should be disallowed. Only posts by cookers should be allowed by rules. (Avoid access control, new rom cookers would have to contact an admin to get their user group put in) Simply have moderators delete threads that were started seeking support or help.
I'm new to flashing myself and I've only been able to find a few ROMs. Why? Because of the disorganization.
New users like me can't find new ROM's because we don't know where to look or how to find them. There's no list, you just have to dig deep through the forums or try your luck with Google or the search function. There's a few listed on the wiki but highly outdated as you said. The new releases are hidden within pages of junk threads in this upgrading forum.
A wiki is a start -- but you have to know the names and URL's of existing threads or be damned good at searching for them to add them to the Wiki. I was going to try and update the wiki and didn't know where to start on finding roms.
A forum that was well-policed against junk offtopic threads could be beneficial for ROM makers and users who seek them alike. This idea should be brought up with the moderators/admins of the forum.
evrything is the mods should do this, the mods should do that, hey......this is a community. like i said, there's a wiki, feel free to contribute.
and how hard is it to find rom releases? just browse maybe the maybe first 10 page and put in watever rom link u find. anything beyond that is most likely outdated already
Well..this is the Kaiser upgrading forum. I think that's exactly where ROM releases should be. I also agree that this is a community...the wiki isn't up to date? Okay...it's a wiki...update it.
**This is my personal view...feel free to disagree.
this has been discussed already as it was asked about the 6.1 roms, and the answer is no. 6.1 is still wm6, its just a fancy AKU release, so there is no need for a subfora, and cooked roms has never gotten their own subfora, its not needed. If everyone would learn to read and post in the proper spots then the board wouldnt get cluttered, creating new subforas will not fix this problem.
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
(edit) A wiki that's easier to edit and navigate, e.g., mediawiki, which would mean
More folks updating the wiki with the ability to edit subsections
More folks viewing the wiki with auto-created tables of contents
(edit)A single 'post your questions here' newbie thread to limit the amount of new threads created
(edit2)A thread or wiki entry linked at the top of every forum with proper forum etiquette.
(edit2) idea about restricting users according to post count removed
All of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
UPDATE 03-13-08
Thanks to Flar and the mods for pushing for new forums! Hopefully these changes, along with more member contributions, we will be able to fight back the redundant thread problem. I've noticed that quite a few senior members have taken a similar stance as I have with new users & redundant threads. I've been trying to either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place, or
given the noob the links he wanted.
If you're genuinely interested in helping others, you'll realize that two of the three ways actually teach a person new things, which means they'll be better off on their own, while #3 only encourages them to ask more questions.
Finally, for all of you that may be new or have less post counts, it's not the amount of time you've been here reading, because that's not contributing back to the community. So my suggestion to you would be to come back and re-read this thread after you've contributed back to the forum by having at least 500+ genuinely helpful posts and see if you feel the same way.
And I don't mean suggestions to fix a soft key issue by bashing the keyboard with a screwdriver, like someone who has flamed this thread
_Alex_ said:
I'm really frustrated with this forum. I was about to become a lurker again and stop contributing, but I realized that this is not the solution.
Since the Kaiser forums are the most active forums on the entire site, we need some changes to make it better for all.
What I'd like to see done to help the situation is the following:
Restrict new threads to members (30 posts), forcing junior members to reply to existing threads. If new threads continue to be a problem, increase the limit to senior member status (100 posts).
More folks updating the wiki
actual comments for wiki updates so folks know what's new(I'm guilty of not doing this too) or an actual what's new page.
Both of these suggestions will make this site more manageable and usable for all.
If you have any ideas, comments or opinions for or against, or just want to add to the list of suggestions, I look forward to them.
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I couldn't agree more. A big part of the problem is the refusal of some to read or search before posting. When they don't get an immediate answer in an existing thread they start a new one. Maybe the answer is to allow the number of daily posts to be restricted by member status, with senior members being unresticted and moving downward from there.
To bad you can't put all of the threads inside the new sticky. That way, to post a new thread, you had to go thru the new sticky. Other than that, the only option I can think of is to hunt the redundant thread poster down and dismember them slowly on live t.v. broadcasted only to XDA members.
Edit:
I personally vote for my second option.
Agree with both suggestions. Mods...any comments? I have not dealt with forum software before...are those restrictions able to be implemented with this forum?
I've always liked the idea of limiting new people from starting threads, but I don't think we can judge on number of posts. I think this will just end with people joining, throwing an extra 30 useless posts into the first threads they come across, then posting their question thread.
I've always liked the idea of making someone wait 24 hours between registering and posting AT ALL. This way, we can still help those people with a genuine problem fairly quickly (rather than making them wait a week) but still weed out those who ask questions that could be answered by 2 seconds of thinking or looking.
Just my 2 cents!
Great suggestions _Alex_. There should be a stew time for new forum members. A 30 post limit should do it because by then one should have learned a little bit at least.
And now that there's a Google search box near the top of the page HOPEFULLY that cuts down on redundant new post.
@kwickone - Yes, it's possible and quite easy at that.
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
Perhaps a rethinking........................................
Okay, this is a common problem on here. Over and over -- endless threads on this subject. It cannot be solved with current technology.
Embrace the problem.
Sandwich method:
Commend them on their new purchase of the new phone they got. Great!
Then advise them to search. Read and learn.
Then Commend their enthusiasm for Any effort they show.
...
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
This forum has turned into a user manual / tech support.
sd73ta said:
maybe there should be a noob section like hofo has for banned members. and you have to wait a while before you can post in the regular threads. then wait even longer before you can start a new thread.
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There already is a noob section...the problem is no one reads it!
I waited 3 months before my 1st post or flash. I shadowed the threads, followed the chefs at that time (Faria, Molski, Xelencin, Risidoro) and watched the results of people flashing their ROMs. I waited till all was clear before I flashed.
Nowadays, people are buying expensive devices and just jumping into deep water without knowing how to swim and the cry to the lifeguard for help.
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
dwny said:
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
Maybe it is an idea to have it a bit like the "Facepunch forum" of GMOD. (for non gamer, it a HL2 mod forum) They had exactly the same problem only a little bit bigger then it is on this forum.
They solved it by some sort of rate system. Forum users can rate a post. If a user get a certain amount of negative points he is banned from the forum for 24 or something like that. You can also rate someone if he makes clever remarks or usefull contributions and rate him with a "thanks!"
This way people know they are being watched for stupid questions that are posted over and over again and search before they do something stupid. After all, saying stupid thing will cost you a time ban.
If you want to know exactly how it works. Register at the facepunch forum to check it out. It really does work. http://forums.facepunchstudios.com/
Shadowdh said:
Would there be any way to link keywords to threads that already exist before its posted... eg if I started a thread re "no sound help me I dont read"... before it posted a list of threads that exist already would pop up saying something like have you looked at these...? perhaps wikis could be linked in the same way... or is this not possible...? cheers
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Even from my rudimentary knowledge of PHP based forums such as XDA, that would be extremely prohibitive in terms of processing power. Context-sensitive searching (even cached) is very resource intensive, and even implementing it on the Kaiser section ONLY would probably bring the boards to an impressive crawl.
Have a 1 month waiting period before being able to post & 3 months before before starting a new thread.
Just my thoughts....It has gotton out of control.
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This seems a bit extreme. I bought my Kaiser and spent two or three days reading the wiki, boards, and specific threads about the Tilt. Still, I had a few questions that weren't addressed by existing threads and needed to start at thread. I agree with Alex's idea that there should be a delay (or post count check) for starting a new THREAD, but certainly not posting in general.
Likewise, I'm beginning to toy with cooking my own ROMs, and what if I was interested in starting my own thread to announce its availability? Certainly I shouldn't be required to append it to an existing (and likely unrelated) thread?
To the OP's original concern, I don't think it's a terribly unique thing to XDA. I frequent many forums, and it happens everywhere, particularly those which address technology or relationships. Everyone seems to think that their issues are unique and that they won't be covered in an existing topic. Likewise, many people just aren't comfortable with reading technical specifications, instructions, or explanations. I have dozens of friends capable of READING manuals for the devices they own and getting exactly what they need, but they don't trust the accuracy of the information unless I tell it to them myself.
Reading a bunch of instructions and trusting they are accurate is much scarier than having someone explain it to you, even if they're just regurgitating information already contained in dozens of wikis, texts or posts. This is the primary reason we have TEACHERS; most people are capable of reading everything they need to know, but prefer to have someone relate it to them in a way which caters to their understanding.
Long-winded thoughts aside, I agree with Alex's suggestions in their entirety.
i dont agree with the whole 30 or 100 postsbefore starting a tread but i do agree with the fact that it's annoying to read the same stuff over and over again people comming in with the same problems and questions but there are also people like myself that are longtime members but actually do read alot of posts so that they dont need to ask anything and dont make the 100 or so recommended post before starting a new tread..
but thats my opinion
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help.
Assuming I actually did search for my answer and wasn't able to find anything, where would I turn? If I can't start a new thread, I would have no choice but to hijack a different thread. That would probably upset the people involved in that thread more than creating a new thread that they could easily ignore.
How about the new thread button routing through search? So that when you entered the title, it did the search, and at the bottom of the search results there was the button that actually started a new thread.
Steal Google's Idea
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site.
?????
...
Jewcookie said:
This is not very userfriendly for people who do search before posting. Considering not every new user who joins the forum is a "lazy" noob.
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It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
tdsuen said:
I don't see how not being able to start a new thread will help
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That's where the problem lies.
How many new issues are there actually? Most of the issues are when people have a problem with a specific ROM. What's been happening lately is that the Rom threads are huge now and to gain attention to their inquiry, people are starting new threads. If you take a look at who's doing this, it's members under 3 months
(Just my opinion & observation)
zcink said:
Okay, How bout this:
When you open www.xda-developers.com you get this:
A Huge Search Box. Nothing else. You Have to go thru the search box to Even access this site. ?????
Okay still Drunk at the time.
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LOL... It's great to see a drunk guy contributing to this thread as it adds a touch of humor to the entire situation
FWIW, one of the new members decided to post their opinion about our frustration venting over in the regular Kaiser forum (which I read very infrequently because I know that's going to be filled with support requests).
I'm wondering how many new users will chime in on that thread...
arrogance and elitism (were all here for the same thing)
Why not add a few more Mod's and just delete them (threads or posts) quick and easy? Have an automated response to the person that: "the answers you needed were already posted in another thread".
dwny said:
It's a matter of setting standards....there are none here!
If you know what the rules are, then you'll follow them....but you have to have rules 1st.
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I totally agree that there needs to be some forum etiquette that needs to be followed, especially regarding new threads. The question is how we go about enforcing it...
Hopefully the mods/admin will read this thread and take our suggestions to heart.
Sober
Okay
A totally Sane -- Sober guy -- was just joking bout the drunk part.
A Huge Search Engine
You have to go thru the search Engine box to enter this site.
You can't miss.
Anyone who does not search will be Shot On site and put into the Ovens!
Our devs here (the few who are still willing to work for us) are doing a fantastic job of churning out new ROMs for us. It would be a basic responsibility from our end (users) to support them.
We have lost many devs for whatsoever reasons. Let us try not to piss off the remaining ones that are still willing and working for us. I understand many of the people here might be new and novice, but that doesn't mean you can go on banging the devs. Have a heart and go easy.
I have a compiled a few questions that should be avoided from posting in any of the ROM threads.
Posting questions:
1. Posting questions that have already been asked again and again in the ROM thread, or its Q&A thread.
2. Q&A thread exists for a reason, read it.
3. Asking questions that have already been answered in OP, or in a few posts that follow are to be avoided at all costs. These achieve only one goal - pissing the dev off.
4. There would be some cooling period associated with any ROM, chances are that your issue was already reported, and taken care of too. This is especially true if you are flashing a new ROM.
Not acceptable reasons/statements:
1. I do not have time to read all pages.
-- Don't. No one is forcing you to. But you could atleast search the thread for relevant posts and check for what you want.
2. I am in a time crunch, so looking for a quick answer before I flash.
-- If you have time to flash, you certainly have time to read the OP and a few pages. If you don't have this much time, refrain from flashing. No one is forcing you to flash.
3. Do NOT compare ROMs. No two devs are same, so don't expect ROMs either. If both are same, there is no point in having multiple ROMs. If you like some other ROM better, move over to that. Don't start a cribbing dialogue.
Note: For people who want to complain these things are redundant and known, hold back your comments for something better. I have seen even in recent days how questions are coming up again and again.