Related
I just thought of this idea, and I really don't know how easy it is, and I have a feeling it just might work. With all the newbs that come in and don't read the wiki...don't read the rules, they post all these redundent threads. How about, in order to register to this forum, you have to take a test. This test will consist of certain questions from the wiki. I'm pretty sure this is a wild idea and getting this to work with this forum might be some work, but if it is done, I'm pretty sure this will reduce a lot of redundent threads. Of course, the test shouldn't be that hard if person read the wiki.
Just a crazy idea. Lock this thread if you think I'm insane.
edit: sorry, should say interesting idea for this forum, not thread.
Not a bad idea, needs some working out. To read the correct Wiki the first question would probably have to be "what phone do you own?"
I don't know about a test but maybe a period after you join you can read all the forums but cannot post for a set amount of days maybe. Thats just my 2 cents.
-McMex
its gonna be hard since a lot of us use different machines..its a good idea to somehow limit the noobness of these people posting redundent threads...but i guess it'll be hard to change the habits of those that just post rather than search
btw...i dont think this is kaiser rom development
maybe somehow mod the way we post...like have a label beside the "post" button asking if they hav searched or not and stuff like that so that the user can double check and think through before posting it..
just a thought...
maybe before someone can view the thread, there would be a pop-up menu (search thread menu) or something like that, that the user will be asked to input their querry and a list of links will be given for their easy access...hehe.
maybe we should not answer anything
and just say wiki
and thats it
nothing else
so that they will read the @@@@@@ wiki at last
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
wait doesn't the owners of this forum get paid more by having more threads from their advertisers?
idk i used to run a forum and thats how it worked with all our advertisers...
I think the purpose is not to piss people off by setting the rule to search first before you post, rather than preventing people to post. I don't think a test is a good idea because everyone has different learning capabilities.
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
bapssystupr3m3 said:
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
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agreed....
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
Don't know why you guys playing the new ones. YOU WERE ALSO LIKE THEM!!!!
Another redundant thread.......
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371254
I think we should have a separate wiki just on ideas 'cause there are so many of these now.
Now, to make my post related and not a space waster, how about this:
When somebody posts a new thread, after they hit "Submit reply", a script searches for keywords in their post and brings up a search result that might be related to their post. The poster can then ignore the posting if any of the search result is relevant or continue posting if search results are not relevant. To not make this feature an annoyance, the script only works when somebody's starting a new thread. How about that, eh?
I think every non-noob should hyper link "Wiki" or some other informative link in their signature. I think the more people that do that, the less redundancy will occur. just my two cents.
muthaflaco said:
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
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Meanwhile you have some user who has bricked his phone and can't post for 7 days, and doesn't understand the wiki and then starts to send PMs to all the names he sees on the forum.
Every forum has this problem. There's not much really that you can do about. Either ignore the redundant posts or help them out. Your choice.
The easiest and most fun way would be to have them agree to search first and be aware that Senior Members can and will ridicule, belittle and flame you if you post a redundant thread. Make that text BIG and BOLD then they check the I agree and can proceed with registration.
This reminds them of the rules and if they don't follow we can do what we do best, make fun of them, laugh, and maybe send them in the right direction.
bapssystupr3m3 said:
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
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I really like this idea!!
Thread for Post Count
How about a thread, for users who make posts like this mine right now. It should be called "Increase your post count thread", this will serve posts like
1. Dumb noob questions (There usually have less than 10, so it will help them).
2. Posts to flame noob posts.
3. More Posts to follow up flaming.
4. More Posts that think this thread is more useful than a noob asking a stupid question because you can read and flash a phone.
5. Posts about how to make a perfect forum but not really do anything about it.
If I can think of more and don't have anything else to do with my life I will make my own thread with a big long list. Then ask for a sticky and be
While the ideas in this thread are good, as P1tater mentions, they are certainly not new.
I've come to an acceptance that there will always be someone who didn't take the time or effort to read before posting. Rather than thinking about different ways to force them, we should treat them with some amount of respect and either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place
Both of these methods will teach the user how to properly use this site. A bit of chastisement never hurts, as long as one of the two criteria is met.
Since that thread was created two months ago, alot of things happened. Some notable mentions are:
Kaiser Software & ROM Development forum
G.W.E.N.I. links & Kaiser FAQ
Shipped & Cooked & Radio ROM wiki
Sticky Rollup & easier wiki navigation
Actions always speak louder than words and this forum runs on user contributions. If you're reading this thread now and wondering what you can do to assist the community:
The Kaiser FAQ needs work, converting GWENI links into Q/A, to be truly an FAQ.
New questions and answers are always appreciated too.
Cooked ROMS is outdated and needs regular maintenance.
Hope this helps!
Hi,
I wanna thank the moderators for putting in much time to keep the forum neat and clean. We need people who are willing to give up their valuable time to bring order to this place.
But for f***s sake stop merging threads togeter. It makes the search engines close to useless! Even if you are able to find a question that has been asked before you wont find an answer unless to care to digg through threads witch hundreds of posts. I even wonder if people will reply; I don't think anyone is keeping up with these threads answering questions, knowing the people who asked the question won't read the 300 replies to other questions that were merged since they posted their question.
Yeah I know, people don't use the search button enough and some questions are asked over and over again. But by merging every redundant question into one big thread even people that do search won't find their answer anymore. And coming to a forum page that has haLF the topics moved, all pointing to that one thread doesn't encourage people to read that thread imho.
Maybe moving them all to a Questions that have been asked before sub-forum (without a visible moved tag) might be a better solution. Sometimes new information is posted to a question and that way it won't get 'lost' in a thread that nobody cares to read.
Anyways, it's just a thought. Thanks for your time
Cheers,
/Cacti
This has been discussed at length already. There are lots of people providing answers in that thread. We are not changing this right now as for the most part it has accomplished what we would like it to do. There is nothing wrong with the search function by the way, as i have managed to find whatever i'm looking for with a fair amount of ease to this point.
Okay it can be argued that I don't post much here, But that is partly cause I am a person that searches and reads and usually finds the answers to my questions. On this FORUM it is increasingly taking more and more time for me to find simple answers to my questions. There are far to many post in threads that are 100% POINT LESS!!! In on thread that I read through there was 23 post between two people saying thank you....In another there is a 32 answers to the same question that are all within 26 minutes apart. This is a major waste of bandwidth, and it makes newbies post more repeated questions.
I can understand the frustration of senior members here whom constantly answer the same questions, and why do some people waste more space and time by saying "Hey newbie search" It took me over a hour to answer 2 questions I had about ADB but I found them, and did not waste peoples time, or space, bandwidth to answer.
Why not start a thank you thread? And sticky it, and then a Newbies Thread that is a sticky for the lazy newbies? I am no programmer, I know enough about Android to get me to brick my phone in a bad way. And when I need info I search for it. And it is taking me longer and getting me more frustrated cause I have to sort though DUMB crap post that mean nothing to anyone from the newbie up to the most senior member....
have some common sense before posting in a thread that is about a Build, The needed and the important post are lost in all the BS....
Rant over...
BTW thanks to some awesome guys that have put up some killer ROMS
so basically you want us to come up with one simple place where the answers to the most redundant threads can be found? one placec that all n00bs should read before they decide they wanna post a new thread to waste bandwidth and space? i see where you are coming from that it takes longer to find the answers we need, but part of that is because there are more posts that include the keyword you searched for. i personally try to find every thread that asked a question and read through it in it's entirety, then when i need to find the answer to a questions i may not remember the answer but i know about where to find it and i search based on what the thread was called.
i realize not everyone can be a jobless bum like me who almost lives on XDA but a lot of learning can be done by just reading threads as they pop up and keeping an eye on them. if more n00bs knew how to read it would make it a whole lot easier to find your answers because there wouldn't be a thousand posts that all answer the same question in a different way.
P.S. we have a place where most questions can be answered it's called a wiki
Two things I learned while working at Staples:
One was the show thread option of search because I don't have time to waste on all the "useless posts"
Two was the easy button because while it didn't make things easier it drowned out the whining.
Isn't this thread simply furthering the actions it objects? Well at least it is prevented from being an off-topic intermission to valuable knowledge.
Little known facts for G1 users: xda has a wiki and the Dream Android Development forum has an RSS link that is very effective on mobile readers.
Actually i agree with the part about people not using their brain and asking stupid question of just talking to talk. This does fill up alot of topics that bury the necessary/meaningful posts in a heap of like 30 pages.
The brain is the most important part of this forum and many other things, if you dont use your brain whats the point? I mean, you cant magically download a brain or even effort for that matter.
twistedumbrella said:
Isn't this thread simply furthering the actions it objects?
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i was thinking that but i figured i would let someone else say it as i had already said enough
tubaking182 said:
so basically you want us to come up with one simple place where the answers to the most redundant threads can be found? one placec that all n00bs should read before they decide they wanna post a new thread to waste bandwidth and space? i see where you are coming from that it takes longer to find the answers we need, but part of that is because there are more posts that include the keyword you searched for. i personally try to find every thread that asked a question and read through it in it's entirety, then when i need to find the answer to a questions i may not remember the answer but i know about where to find it and i search based on what the thread was called.
i realize not everyone can be a jobless bum like me who almost lives on XDA but a lot of learning can be done by just reading threads as they pop up and keeping an eye on them. if more n00bs knew how to read it would make it a whole lot easier to find your answers because there wouldn't be a thousand posts that all answer the same question in a different way.
P.S. we have a place where most questions can be answered it's called a wiki
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I don't have the answer or even claim to, But newbies aside, Why in the world do we have in one thread one whole page of thank yous that are not even related to the build? And they are between 2 people. In another thread we have 3 people answering the same question, with the same answer 3 times. Hell I guess I should stop searching and just ask, It is much easier.... Ohh Yea, Forgot I run a firearms forum and have respect to the knowledge base to not so that stupid crap... AND I know where the SEARCh function is
I am a newbie to this as well.... I have learned everything I know from the SEARCH function and reading.
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
+1
Force people to use the damned search button before post... or limit the posting of threads to people that reply 20 times at least more than 20 words...
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
jagpoag said:
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
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A bit extreme. Maybe we can educate instead.
I agree with u tr8. I am actually one of the people who both gives a straight forward answer and uses the search button or Google. But then again I read through tons of threads just for educational purposes. Lol. I have personally answered the same question over and over. Helping takes just as much time as flaming and someday u might ask a question someone smarter than u might think is flammable. Lets keep that in mind.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
Roflmao. I agree with your point as well. Both sides are very valid. All I'm saying is either answering with something productive or passing it by is logical. Flaming is a waist of time. If the didn't take the time to research then flaming them wont make them think they should. That's all. And u can't find a thread on here from me labeled anything like " how do I get to recovery " or anything like that. I agree with u completely.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
ROFL..... I have seen the "use the search tool" so many times, on so many forums, it's not funny.
The problem with inbuilt search tools are these:
1: Spelling. Many users on the internet do not spell correctly. They abbreviate things, simply spell it wrong, or get the position of the letters in various acronyms around the wrong way. This makes searching for a particular word, or group of words, very hit-and-miss, as the particular thread that answers your question, may not show up in search results because either the searcher, or the poster, has spelt stuff incorrectly.
2: Global differences. Irrelevant in this instance and on this website, but a good example to make the point.... in Australia and most UK-background countries, we call it a "nappy" In USA, it's called a "diaper".
We call them "taps"..... USA calls them "faucets".... and others call them something else.
Because forums and the net are global entities, a search function should allow for dialect and language differences.... but this would be almost impossible, so a search function relies on the HOPE that MOST members have spelt things correctly, and MOST members all use the same terminology.
Are YOU going to post a thread with language/dialectural differences, on the off-chance someone from another country calls it something different ? "My toilet (bathroom) tap (faucet) isn't working (operational) - how do I fix (repair) the leak (breach / broken washer / cracked pipe)? "
3: Minimum number of characters. Most search functions have a minimum number of characters required, to perform a search, to weed out the useless "common" words like "at," "I," "on," "the," etc etc. Usually 4 characters minimum. It does not help that most technological things - especially on a forum such as this - are abbreviated or have acronyms that do not provide the minimum number of search characters required. On an automotive forum, for example, how does someone search for "AFM" "VTEC" "EFI" or such-like, if those terms don't reach the minimum? Computer and technology parts are the same.
If a forum has a minimum 4-character search function, how does anyone search for "HTC" or "HD2" ????? There is NO other option for spelling out those terms to something longer..... that's all their names are. They are not shortened versions of a longer word... that's it.
4: Trawling through the results. Oftentimes, when a search DOES result in a page of threads, it can take hours upon hours to read through them all, trying to FIND the answer within those search results. As mentioned above, most-times the responses are simply other users flaming the OP for not searching. Finding the actual answer within those threads could take days.
Users also go off on tangents when posting replies. So a simple thread asking "how do I do A" may have 3 useful replies, then 10 pages of totally irrelevant posts as reply #4 has gone off and described "how I did B instead of A" and the thread has followed suit.
Asking a quick question - and getting a handful of helpful responses - gets the question answered (usually)... in which case, the thread is closed, and doesn't "block up" the internet with more useless posts.
And if someone asks the same question next week, so what. A handful of helpful responses still gets the question answered, and the thread is closed, and the world continues to rotate.
The issue of users not-using / incorrectly-using the Search function is something that has existed since Jesus was pissing in his nappies (diapers, for our American readers).
It is not something that can be forced upon members, until the Search function itself is re-programmed to be fool-proof.
Only then, can you FORCE users to use it first, before being allowed to post a question.
The simple answer is this: If the same question is being repetitively asked over and over again, ask yourselves why?
Obviously, it is because the answer is not readily available in a more obvious position, for members to find.
If the answer is something simple - make it a sticky, so that people can find it more easily.
Create a wiki page or something similar, again so users can find it more easily.
But most of all.... if you aren't prepared to help a user who asks a dumb question, simply move on. As mentioned above, flaming that person achieves nothing.
Most people don't post questions because they are lazy. You have no idea how much time that person has, or hasn't, spent searching for an answer. So you have no right to flame them about asking a repetitive question.
People naturally get defensive when flamed, so their simple "please help me" post becomes a 10-page flame war of people defending their rights and reasons for asking a question, versus those members who feel they shouldn't have asked in the first place.
Ultimately, forums are for helping each other. If you can answer someone's question, or point them in the right direction, then do so. But FFS don't waste everyone's time, and bandwidth, flaming them and blocking up the forums..... which is usually the reason you flame them in the first place (for blocking up the forums)
I second that.
There could be some kind of FAQ-Sheriff on each forum how maintains a sticky thread with those questions everybody asks...
Some interesting/stimulating conversation here. What I fail to understand is why do experienced users waste their time flaming. Why even bother reading a thread when you know you won't afford another user help.
The OP has caused everyone enough frustration without causing multiple pages of 'garbage'; why add to this? Do we really believe that flaming will cause the 'ignorant' on the web to suddenly change their ways?
If anything, you (you meaning the flamer) are doing the rest of the community a courtesy by not flaming because those of us that are diligent and considerate enough of others to actually use search have less work to do in our searches.
I'd like to be clear on something: I'm certainly not targeting the flamer over the lazy bozo, both have faults but the flamer (being wiser, more intelligent, etc.) stands to be assigned a bit more blame (for the clutter) since they really are 'smarter' (or more educated - whichever you prefer) than the OP. Also, those that flame are more likely to read this thread than the lazy masses that just request help without search.
Agreement to the facts!
tr8rjohnk said:
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
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I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
Lordrdx666 said:
I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
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Hey, I appreciate the kudos.
Why participate in any thread on xda when Ur a n00b like me?? surely, the normal thing non n00bs do is to just ignore? Every time I participate in any thread on xda I just get ignored because I'm a n00b. I'm sure I'm not the only one on the intranet that feels this way. Not a question just stating my thoughts about this website.
jason_l367 said:
Why participate in any thread on xda when Ur a n00b like me?? surely, the normal thing non n00bs do is to just ignore? Every time I participate in any thread on xda I just get ignored because I'm a n00b. I'm sure I'm not the only one on the intranet that feels this way. Not a question just stating my thoughts about this website.
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First, this forum isn't a help-desk or a support forum. This website is not here for us to help you, it is here for you to find your own answers and only ask when you cant find or dont understand the answers.
Second, most of the questions you've posted, already have solutions, if it's obvious that you haven't searched for them, most members won't answer because we don't spoonfeed people looking for answers. If you are searching and you are finding answers but don't understand the answers you find, it is still on you to do some researching about what you found in order to understand what it is that you found. Sometimes it takes days/weeks/months to figure out what things are and what they mean, even for members that are NOT noobs. Don't just spend a little time looking for answers and then come here asking questions just because you didn't understand what you found in the first few minutes of reading it. Do some google searches to understand what it is saying.
If you're looking for a place for someone to hold your hand or do the thinking and the work for you, XDA is not that place. We don't mind pointing someone in the right direction, just don't ask questions that have already been asked repeatedly, this shows that you haven't searched and seen where it was already asked, therefore, your question will be ignored. Don't ask simple questions that can be easily answered with a simple Google search, those also get ignored because it shows that you aren't willing to do your own searching.
When you are searching and you find information that you think is relevant to your needs, don't just jump the gun and try it, that is reckless and can lead to causing worse issues. You need to do deeper research about your specific device, your issue and it's potential solutions on order to understand exactly what will or won't work. Get more familiar with "what not to do" instead of "what to do" when you're attempting to modify a device.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk