Related
I just thought of this idea, and I really don't know how easy it is, and I have a feeling it just might work. With all the newbs that come in and don't read the wiki...don't read the rules, they post all these redundent threads. How about, in order to register to this forum, you have to take a test. This test will consist of certain questions from the wiki. I'm pretty sure this is a wild idea and getting this to work with this forum might be some work, but if it is done, I'm pretty sure this will reduce a lot of redundent threads. Of course, the test shouldn't be that hard if person read the wiki.
Just a crazy idea. Lock this thread if you think I'm insane.
edit: sorry, should say interesting idea for this forum, not thread.
Not a bad idea, needs some working out. To read the correct Wiki the first question would probably have to be "what phone do you own?"
I don't know about a test but maybe a period after you join you can read all the forums but cannot post for a set amount of days maybe. Thats just my 2 cents.
-McMex
its gonna be hard since a lot of us use different machines..its a good idea to somehow limit the noobness of these people posting redundent threads...but i guess it'll be hard to change the habits of those that just post rather than search
btw...i dont think this is kaiser rom development
maybe somehow mod the way we post...like have a label beside the "post" button asking if they hav searched or not and stuff like that so that the user can double check and think through before posting it..
just a thought...
maybe before someone can view the thread, there would be a pop-up menu (search thread menu) or something like that, that the user will be asked to input their querry and a list of links will be given for their easy access...hehe.
maybe we should not answer anything
and just say wiki
and thats it
nothing else
so that they will read the @@@@@@ wiki at last
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
wait doesn't the owners of this forum get paid more by having more threads from their advertisers?
idk i used to run a forum and thats how it worked with all our advertisers...
I think the purpose is not to piss people off by setting the rule to search first before you post, rather than preventing people to post. I don't think a test is a good idea because everyone has different learning capabilities.
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
bapssystupr3m3 said:
i agree with the learning capabilities..but its the people who dont even want to learn...then just want other peple to give them the answer so they can happily enjoy their phone rather than learning it and finding it out for themselves...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed....
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
Don't know why you guys playing the new ones. YOU WERE ALSO LIKE THEM!!!!
Another redundant thread.......
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=371254
I think we should have a separate wiki just on ideas 'cause there are so many of these now.
Now, to make my post related and not a space waster, how about this:
When somebody posts a new thread, after they hit "Submit reply", a script searches for keywords in their post and brings up a search result that might be related to their post. The poster can then ignore the posting if any of the search result is relevant or continue posting if search results are not relevant. To not make this feature an annoyance, the script only works when somebody's starting a new thread. How about that, eh?
I think every non-noob should hyper link "Wiki" or some other informative link in their signature. I think the more people that do that, the less redundancy will occur. just my two cents.
muthaflaco said:
I'm with McMexican...
Probationary period of no posting for 7 days to familiarize yourself with the site, and read the WIKI(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Meanwhile you have some user who has bricked his phone and can't post for 7 days, and doesn't understand the wiki and then starts to send PMs to all the names he sees on the forum.
Every forum has this problem. There's not much really that you can do about. Either ignore the redundant posts or help them out. Your choice.
The easiest and most fun way would be to have them agree to search first and be aware that Senior Members can and will ridicule, belittle and flame you if you post a redundant thread. Make that text BIG and BOLD then they check the I agree and can proceed with registration.
This reminds them of the rules and if they don't follow we can do what we do best, make fun of them, laugh, and maybe send them in the right direction.
bapssystupr3m3 said:
another thought...maybe give like warning points or w/e...then after so many points u will have limited access or w/e then resulting in a ban if it continues to occur that they dont search answers for themselves first
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really like this idea!!
Thread for Post Count
How about a thread, for users who make posts like this mine right now. It should be called "Increase your post count thread", this will serve posts like
1. Dumb noob questions (There usually have less than 10, so it will help them).
2. Posts to flame noob posts.
3. More Posts to follow up flaming.
4. More Posts that think this thread is more useful than a noob asking a stupid question because you can read and flash a phone.
5. Posts about how to make a perfect forum but not really do anything about it.
If I can think of more and don't have anything else to do with my life I will make my own thread with a big long list. Then ask for a sticky and be
While the ideas in this thread are good, as P1tater mentions, they are certainly not new.
I've come to an acceptance that there will always be someone who didn't take the time or effort to read before posting. Rather than thinking about different ways to force them, we should treat them with some amount of respect and either:
Giving the new user a search term (that we know will help), or
given the new user a way to navigate and use the resources here, mostly created by us to prevent users from asking questions in the first place
Both of these methods will teach the user how to properly use this site. A bit of chastisement never hurts, as long as one of the two criteria is met.
Since that thread was created two months ago, alot of things happened. Some notable mentions are:
Kaiser Software & ROM Development forum
G.W.E.N.I. links & Kaiser FAQ
Shipped & Cooked & Radio ROM wiki
Sticky Rollup & easier wiki navigation
Actions always speak louder than words and this forum runs on user contributions. If you're reading this thread now and wondering what you can do to assist the community:
The Kaiser FAQ needs work, converting GWENI links into Q/A, to be truly an FAQ.
New questions and answers are always appreciated too.
Cooked ROMS is outdated and needs regular maintenance.
Hope this helps!
Could the posts in "Raphael Questions & Answers Here" be mini threads themselves?
I was just wondering about this after reading yet another post from a member about how difficult it could be to trace the thread once it is moved into the big thread, mostly because it would not have all the answers for that particular thread, well, threaded, to the original post anymore. Although the moderators might have contemplated this, but is it possible to have some sort of threading for each post within the big single thread? Maybe something like the threaded SMS feature for the Fuze? I hope this thread stays as a single thread itself , so someone wondering about the same thing I am, knows why things are the way they are. Thanks.
An even better idea would be to create a Raphael Questions and Answers Sub-Forum where people could start threads to ask questions and then keep it as an archive where you can go to find the answer to any question.
new system doesn't work
I totally agree with incisivekeith:
The single-thread Q&A system and the displacer-mods are killing active and concentrated conversations over the issues by forcing it into a chaotic messy HOLY THREAD. This undermines the entire point to exist of the forum
I know I'm missing out on a decent amount of information because I don't even check that thread. It's an absolute mess. Even if I see a new thread that I might want to read that gets moved to that Q&A, I don't even bother. What a waste.
Kevin
Yes, the mods and admins are trying to figure out better ways to organize it but for right now i think it is decided that they will just have one huge thread of all questions and answers because there are way too many threads coming up with simple questions and they want to try and keep things more clean and organized on forums.
If you think its a bad idea take a look into the kaiser section and see how much crap is there. What the mods are doing is a GOOD start to keep the forum clean.
In addition, most of the people that are complaining are the ones that have only been here for a couple months, therefore they have no idea what everyone has been through in the past year and even longer. You (no disrespect) new users here must realize that this has been our home for a long time, there is a certain level of respect and rules that many of us wish would be followed. Those rules are not being followed, so this is a good solution for a problem that has been going on for a while.
ptyindian said:
Yes, the mods and admins are trying to figure out better ways to organize it but for right now i think it is decided that they will just have one huge thread of all questions and answers because there are way too many threads coming up with simple questions and they want to try and keep things more clean and organized on forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah well having one huge thread isn't exactly clean... It makes it terribly hard to find ANYTHING. They can call it the Questions & Answers Thread but that's just a poor way of trying to address a very large issue.
1. People are going to start a thread asking for help.
2. The moderators will merge that thread with ALL THE OTHER threads of people asking questions.
3. Now that person who was asking a question before will go back to their thread and see it was merged with that HUGE questions and answers thread and never be able to find their question or the potential answer...
Result of all of this?
They're going to start a new thread asking their question over and over again until they eventually get frustrated and give up, possibly driving them off... That's never a good way to run a site...
WE NEED A dedicated "Questions & Answers" SUB-FORUM within every major device's main forum. This will provide a place for people to ask their questions, get their answers, and move on. It will also provide the users with the ability to have those mini-discussions without having to worry about the moderators taking their thread and moving it to that giant mess you all call the questions and answers thread.
Just my 2 cents...
Hey yeah i totally understand what you are feeling. I brought the same exact point up in a thread here and here was the response by a mod. They are trying to figure things out too and in order to get a Q&A subforum they have to go through different things and get permissions and stuff like that and it apparently is not that easy.I understand what you are saying but for right now that is what the mods and admins decided was the best thing to do and this is only a trial from what i understand it is not permanent. They just wanted to see how it is going to work.
ptyindian said:
Hey yeah i totally understand what you are feeling. I brought the same exact point up in a thread here and here was the response by a mod. They are trying to figure things out too and in order to get a Q&A subforum they have to go through different things and get permissions and stuff like that and it apparently is not that easy.I understand what you are saying but for right now that is what the mods and admins decided was the best thing to do and this is only a trial from what i understand it is not permanent. They just wanted to see how it is going to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I hope they figure this out sooner than later because I know that if I was the one asking a question only to come back a few hours later to find out that my post is now lost in that thread I wouldn't even waste my time trying to find the post let alone the answer...
People are gonna start getting discouraged and maybe that's their goal... Idk... I hope not but that's what's going to happen. People are gonna ask their question and then it's gonna be lost in that thread and they're never gonna find the answer IF someone actually reads through the thread enough to actually answer it.
I have to make this clear - my intention to begin this thread. It is certainly not to question the policy of the moderators of merging the questions in one big thread, because as KD8DNS said, people (new users) often open a thread for anything and everything, most of the times, without researching for the issue. I am highly technically inclined, but I could be considered a "new user" myself, not unfamiliar with the whole smart phone thing as I had a Nokia smart phone before the Fuze, but new to the Windows Mobile platform, and boy I have learned in the past couple of weeks alone.
I posted the following in response to a post in the big thread, which brought into light the lack of convenience in searching for a solution in the big thread:
"I had that line of thinking for a while, so I won't say you are saying something that is unreasonable. But, if it makes you feel a little better, maybe you can try for the keywords for that thread/post by using the "Search this Thread" menu at the top of any thread. Even with that, you will not have a thread that would have all the answers for that one issue in one thread, I agree, but maybe this huge thread is required, as there are/were so many threads for issues that have already been discussed or could really be answered in a big thread like this."
So, as I said, I most certainly understand the reason due to which the moderators decided to merge many threads. Having said that, and also considering there are certain rules, all I was opening for discussion, was whether there was a way to have mini threads within that thread or some alternate solution or not, which would not only reduce the maintenance and clumsiness of many threads for already discussed issues, but also be efficient in providing information to new users, for some of whom, frankly, this forum could be their first ever forum. That was the point I was wanting to discuss, and, I am reiterating the purpose of this thread, which is not to question any policies, but to just discuss an alternative. Thanks.
Okay, since i'm the moderator being discussed i figured i should weigh in on the matter.
First, if you have an issue with anything that i do, feel free to PM me. I cannot promise that i'll change my mind about any of my decisions, but i will certainly listen to your point of view.
Second, a couple users were correct in saying MOST of the posts that I merge are redundant questions posted by people who don't know how to search or special issues that aren't going to apply to many people.
Finally, if there are several posts that you think would be beneficial to be posted as a separate thread for discussion about a significant issue then send me list of links to the posts you'd like to have merged into a separate thread, and I can pull all the posts together and put them in a new thread. It will just save me a lot of time if i don't have to look around for them, and increase the likelihood i will get to it sooner.
That's about it. I'll leave this open for a few to see if anyone has something useful to be gleaned, but to be honest, if it turns into people complaining because they don't like the Q & A thread then i'll probably just close it.
darfri said:
I totally agree with incisivekeith:
The single-thread Q&A system and the displacer-mods are killing active and concentrated conversations over the issues by forcing it into a chaotic messy HOLY THREAD. This undermines the entire point to exist of the forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You obviously don't know what the point of the forum is. The Q&A people have very little to do with development, which is, in fact, actually the point of the forum.
dharvey4651 said:
They're going to start a new thread asking their question over and over again until they eventually get frustrated and give up, possibly driving them off... That's never a good way to run a site...
WE NEED A dedicated "Questions & Answers" SUB-FORUM within every major device's main forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This site has never been about being tech support to people not really interested in learning, so most of the users who would be discouraged that easily probably aren't users that were gonna stick around and contribute a lot anyway. That being said, right now the option is either to merge most of the new threads OR to delete them, because they're VERY redundant. I don't think anyone wants me to delete them, so for now i 'm doing the best we can. Right now it's been only a little over a week that we've been doing this. In that time there have been HUNDREDS of threads created in ONE subforum alone. We are working on reshaping a rapidly changing culture around here. If we swing too far toward the casual user we will lose our developers, but we don't want to completely ignore them. So have patience, offer constructive advice.
Thank you scotchua for being kind to offer a PM helpdesk... but I am afraid that you might get flooded with questions if you offer your help too graciously.
I have seen many dumb questions starting a thread around here like "my device is slow! What to do?" but those threads will also disappear in "history" and I don't understand how this really bugs anyone. We have a search option here. I understand that this is a development oriented forum BUT isn't an "end users" expression/opinion/frustration/rapture an important value?
I'd see a per-device Q&A subforum as a very good idea. You'll see that this subforum will be the most active. xda-dev is very good site and it should also remain flexible. I'm sorry that I am not a developer and don't have those skills. It might sound silly but "children" like me and other non-developers think different than hi-tech-development-geniuses and might point to problems that are more dysfunctional in practice than the ones that superbrains notice.
Actually I have stopped initiating my thoughts/worries here because of that new filter
darfri said:
Thank you scotchua for being kind to offer a PM helpdesk... but I am afraid that you might get flooded with questions if you offer your help too graciously.
I have seen many dumb questions starting a thread around here like "my device is slow! What to do?" but those threads will also disappear in "history" and I don't understand how this really bugs anyone. We have a search option here. I understand that this is a development oriented forum BUT isn't an "end users" expression/opinion/frustration/rapture an important value?
I'd see a per-device Q&A subforum as a very good idea. You'll see that this subforum will be the most active. xda-dev is very good site and it should also remain flexible. I'm sorry that I am not a developer and don't have those skills. It might sound silly but "children" like me and other non-developers think different than hi-tech-development-geniuses and might point to problems that are more dysfunctional in practice than the ones that superbrains notice.
Actually I have stopped initiating my thoughts/worries here because of that new filter
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, I never offered to be a one man help desk cause you're right, there is no way i'd have the time, haha. What I did say is that people who have questions about WHY i did something should feel free to ask me, BEFORE they start complaining about it publically. The reality is that there is no way to make everyone happy. I have people who PM me saying they think what I'm doing is great, some who say that i'm not doing enough, some who hate it and think i'm ruining the forum, and some who disagree with it but understand....the site is huge and there are differing opinions.
I don't want anyone to be offended, but the reality is that not all opinions are of equal value to me, and accordingly, while i will gladly listen to ANY user, certain users or groups of users will have more pull because of their length of time here, my perceived quality of their ideas, or because of their contributions. Some may think this unfair, but then someone always does, and at least I am transparent about which factors i value most.
As I have said several times, a Q&A Sub-Forum could maybe be possible, however, it's really barely been a week with this Q&A thread and sometimes these things take time to develop. I really do think that the 20 new threads started every day take a lot away from the sub-forum as they push the actually valueable threads down to the second and third page most of the time. My preference honestly would be to delete every thread started and PM each user to post their questions in the Q&A thread instead. Then if people would use the quote feature it would be much easier to follow a conversation related to your question. Unfortunately, upon discussion with some other users it was determined that it might be a bit of a "heavy-handed" approach at this point.
The simple reality is that the rules are clearly posted everywhere, and if people would read them, then this whole issue would be moot. I personally don't even think it would be unfair to administer a short ban for people so blatantly disregarding the rules; however, at this point it has been deemed an excessive remedy to the issue. The reality is that MOSt of the threads being started are about self-inflicted issues, created by users who don't search or read...so while I have sympathy and am happy to help them, my sympathy runs short when they start complaining because it's hard to read 3-4 pages of posts a day to find their answer. If only any of those whining about this knew how much each mods personal time is devoted to sorting through everyone else's posts they'd certainly quit whining so much about having to spend a few minutes to find a solution.
First, I have to tell you that XDA-Developers is my most valuable web site for WM support. And I understand the original intent of this site as a site for developers and your desire to protect its intent. But success breeds success and in part it is because of the value of the information here that new/basic users are attracted to this site. If that is really what you don't want, point those users and questions to a different site and let us know where to go. I have downloaded and used the custom roms prepared for the Tilt and if I keep the Fuze, I intend to do the same. But I also just received my
Fuze and have very basic questions which have ben relegated to a post that will make finding a response difficult.
With that said, I don't think that your intent is to chase people away. After all, the added user base does give your site greater authority, if that is of value to you. But confining basic questions to a single thread takes away from the usefulness of a site such as this for those users. So, a hopefully constructive suggestion. Consider implementing the sub forum for questions and answers. If you don't want to monitor it yourself or have a developer do that, query some of your more valuable posters to see if they will perform that function. I am sure that some posters are not developers and would be willing to support that function. It costs nothing to ask. This would keep new users here. After all, many new users grow and eventually can add to the usefulness of the community as a whole.
Just a thought.
ourtech said:
But confining basic questions to a single thread takes away from the usefulness of a site such as this for those users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have highlighted the key term in bold. The problem we're facing is that most users are thinking individually. What is best for THEM when THEY are looking for ONE piece of info. I am really trying to think what is best for the site as a whole, and in my opinion having 30 new threads a day in just this one section is not what is best for people who are actually trying to find valuable resources. We had the same problem with the Development & Hacking section until we really cracked down on random thread posting in the wrong place, and created the Question & Answers section.
I know that people are frustrated that we only have one thread for their questions and answers, but the simple fact is that there are only 4 or 5 pages being added each day, so if you asked a question it really isn't that hard to see if it's being answered, which most of them are. I do agree that a sub-forum might be a possible solution to the problem, but even then people are still not going to even bother reading the rules.
Here's where my main objection comes in, and i sincerely hope that people understand me on this. It is fairly offensive to me for people to tell me it's too much work to read 4 pages in the Q&A thread, which i spend 10 times as much time cleaning up, helping users, and settling petty arguments between childish users on the forum every day. So you'll understand why i see the problem as being larger than just a little inconvenience for a few users wanting to ask simple questions. Most users don't even bother to post in the thread titled "Don't Start A New Thread".
No offense intended to you because I, as the questioner, have no problem reading 10 pages, 70 pages or 170 pages for an answer and it is your site. I don't own it and have no say in the rules. If I want to use the facilities of this site then I should folllow the rules. But I am not sure that I communicated the point I intended. Respectfully, my point is perhaps better expressed like this:
Noob user has a question and posts it in the normal manner in a new thread. Users new and old see it in the list of threads. The topic is what attracts them or steers them away. Someone sees it and wishes to contribute, others will ignore it. That is the way that it traditionally works.
What doesn't happen when all questions are lumped into one thread is that only readers looking for answers to questions are likely to wade through that thread. There is no possibility of a thread title that might catch attention. If someone hasn't been keeping up with that thread 70 pages of posts can be intimidating. So the prospective audience is reduced. If you are saying that this reduces the usefulness of the site as a whole I am puzzled as it makes it more likely to me that I would come and see what is new. In telling me that it harms the site as a whole makes it seem that I am not the kind of user you want hanging around. I don't think that that is your intent, but when you put me in a corner and say that my questions are not useful to the members as a whole, how am I to take that?
It is just my viewpoint as someone that is looking to contact other users of the Fuze. I hope that rather than take offense, it is with the best of motives that I add these comments. I like this site and it has been of real use in the past. I sold my Tilt and I am not sure that the Fuze is a keeper, so I may not be around. But I offer these observations with the genuine desire to help. Best wishes to you.
My point was simply that having 30 new threads added in this sub-forum alone, pushes the very useful threads onto the 3rd or 4th page where people are far less likely to see them. That's who it makes the site less useful.
As for the Q&A thread, I don't expect anyone to look for answers in there. I simply expect that people would post their questions in there instead of starting a new thread. I honestly don't care if people ask the same question 100 times in that thread. That's what it's there for. Most people will get quick responses and move on to something else.
Disrespectfulness
darfri said:
I have seen many dumb questions starting a thread around here like "my device is slow! What to do?" but those threads will also disappear in "history" and I don't understand how this really bugs anyone
KD8DNS said:
You (no disrespect) new users here must realize that this has been our home for a long time
aaand, scotchua said & said & said & ...:
You obviously don't know what the point of the forum is.
not all opinions are of equal value to me
If only any of those whining about this knew how much each mods...
I personally don't even think it would be unfair to administer a short ban for people so blatantly disregarding the rules
The problem we're facing is that most users are thinking individually.
I do agree that a sub-forum might be a possible solution to the problem, but even then people are still not going to even bother reading the rules.
As for the Q&A thread, I don't expect anyone to look for answers in there
if it turns into people complaining because they don't like the Q & A thread then i'll probably just close it.
i have followed this thread from the moment it was created as i shared the same feeling as the op with the dissatisfaction with the current policy of merging all qa threads into one qa thread. i have seen how the similar problem of not-that-constructive posts was solved in the general d&h forum by creating a qa subforum, and i thought that was the right solution.
in the mean time, the situation before the qa thread was not disastrous, as darfri indicated.
i was really annoyed by the disrespectful reply of KD8DNS and the many disrespectful replies by scotchua. it is really amazing how scotchua was throwing insults right and left to everybody who criticized the single-qa-thread policy. THIS is what should be totally unacceptable, not a naive user's question that have asked and answered a billion times. the use of terms like whining tells you that even if you are the brightest, you can't be the best leader (or moderator in our case). scotchua's thoughts of feeling that developers are better than non-developers are simple wrong! i am sure scotchua knows that many of his fellow smarter-than-the-rest-of-us developers have gained a lot of knowledge and came up with many ideas by reading such "valueless" threads.
scotchua might think it is unimportant, but i usually tend to the qa subforum and try to answer general simple questions that i can answer, and i have noticed many others do the same, from a user point of view, such a single qa thread just kills this kind of participation.
forums exist on so many topics all over the internet, and the simple feature in all such forums of having non-active threads go down, is the simple solution to the problem scotchua is "whining" about by having and trying to explain by writing posts of 100s of words to everybody who is disagreeing with that useless thread policy.
the single thread for all qa's policy is obviously wrong because a questioners can't find answers to their question, if anybody ever cared to try answer it in such a mess!
and such disrespectful responses should stop. being a mod doesn't give such privileges.
Hi,
I wanna thank the moderators for putting in much time to keep the forum neat and clean. We need people who are willing to give up their valuable time to bring order to this place.
But for f***s sake stop merging threads togeter. It makes the search engines close to useless! Even if you are able to find a question that has been asked before you wont find an answer unless to care to digg through threads witch hundreds of posts. I even wonder if people will reply; I don't think anyone is keeping up with these threads answering questions, knowing the people who asked the question won't read the 300 replies to other questions that were merged since they posted their question.
Yeah I know, people don't use the search button enough and some questions are asked over and over again. But by merging every redundant question into one big thread even people that do search won't find their answer anymore. And coming to a forum page that has haLF the topics moved, all pointing to that one thread doesn't encourage people to read that thread imho.
Maybe moving them all to a Questions that have been asked before sub-forum (without a visible moved tag) might be a better solution. Sometimes new information is posted to a question and that way it won't get 'lost' in a thread that nobody cares to read.
Anyways, it's just a thought. Thanks for your time
Cheers,
/Cacti
This has been discussed at length already. There are lots of people providing answers in that thread. We are not changing this right now as for the most part it has accomplished what we would like it to do. There is nothing wrong with the search function by the way, as i have managed to find whatever i'm looking for with a fair amount of ease to this point.
I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.
i also agree with this.
everytime i log on to xda i have to catch up with a couple pages of new threads and its ridiculous.
I think if u went through those pages u would see 3 threads saying the same think. Well I thinks some got removed (just like this one will) but frankly I don't think there is solution maybe if u had to take quiz befor you could become a member or something. I have I had mistakes on here when i started about posting dumb stuff but yeah that's my 2 cents.
I agree the activity level of this forum (448 - Dream Android Development) ought to merit additional moderation. I mean absolutely no disrespect to those already volunteering their time to keep things tidy -- quite the opposite.
I'm only posting in this thread to voice the opinion that a couple more mods might go a long way to keep some of the more basic questions and chatter relegated to a more appropriate venue (447 - Dream, most likely) and keep the front page ripe with the glorious development meat we all crave.
I'm not saying I'm the chap for the job, but I'd sure be willing to pitch in if consensus agrees there is need. I f5 the site pretty much all day as it is.
I tend to agree but I'm a newb around here still more or less, well to xda anyways. I try to help folks but lose my patience when someone quotes the answer and asks for help. It did give me an ambitious idea though along the lines of a catchall guide for rooting fixing your phone.
i do not think that the solution is as simple as a quiz since this site is a great place for so many phones(anything made by HTC) and no one quiz would cover everything. i am not saying that i need to be the moderator, but i wouldn't complain if i was. i respect the mods that we have and i think they are doing an excellent job. i don't have a job, and don't go to school, i spent about four hours a day sleeping and tthe rest of my time i am either on Xda or trying to find some new fun thing to do with my phone. i do not really have any one specific person in mind that should or could be a mod, but i think that with just one more person they could make a wold of a difference on this forum. just think about it that's all i'm asking
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it. For example, someone reads in the market that a program requires "root". They decide they are up to try rooting, and look here for the answers. There is a nicely written sticky by Koush that covers it all. That is a nicely written and easy to follow thread. But wait, now they read that Cupcake is out...just look at all the options. Unless they knew they were looking specifically for "JFv1.51 CRB43" how would they know where to start? Set the standards for stickies high (especially the titles!), and maybe it will catch some of the newbies.
Just my $.02
tubaking182 said:
I know i don't have the BEST reputation around here but i know what i am talking about for the most part and i am begging for you to help clean up this site and forum. For the last few weeks the number of repetitive posts has been absolutely ridiculous, every time I get on XDA i see so many threads that all ask the same thing. There are some many users that apparently think that this site is a tech support site and do not respect us at all. I know that XDA is THE site for the latest info on windows mobile and now android, but people seem to join just to ask simple questions like "my phone is stuck on t-mobile G1 screen" or "BRICK PLEASE HELP!!" most of the people on this site have lives and jobs but i do not. i have no problem helping new members and old members alike, but i do have a problem with stupidity. if a member is not capable or not willing to search for an answer then they either A. don't need it, or B. shouldn't have tried to begin with. i beg that every member on this site go through the first 10 pages of this development forum for our dream and count how many repetitive threads there are open or closed.
i request that we get another mod, i know neoobs and mikey are very busy and do not have time to monitor the forum 24-7 even between the two of them. if we were to get another mod for the forum i think we could start closing/deleting threads that have no right being opened/started, i am not saying that we need to start closing threads left and right, but i know there are at least 10 threads in the first ten pages that talk about Bricked phone that either tried the new SPL, or some other reason. if we had another mod then repeat threads could be closed after a link or answer, that way we aren't completely rude to people but we can keep the forums clean.
Also i realize we can't just go banning people left and right, but if a person joins XDA and in a week has only posted a few times and all posts have been new threads asking about things that have been discussed in detail then they should be suspended to give them a chance to learn how to use the search function and read a few threads and the rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, I've been hanging around and reading this forum since around November last year. That is about 2 full months before I even bought my G1. I love this forum, I can always find the answers I need and I have NEVER once posted a new thread. I use the search function, follow links posted in other forums and just plain old read. That is why I'm probably still listed as a noob. The thing is I have experience in a multitude of forums on a multitude of different topics and items so I know to usually keep my mouth shut unless its a contribution or an emergency. With that said...
The problem is that not everyone knows forum etiquette. Not everyone has been to a forum community and knows how to search. Not everyone knows that search doesn't always work so now its time to scroll threads. Not everyone knows patience like us to take our time to learn. In fact, I think most of the noobs here probably don't know anything about forums, what their about and how they work. All they know is they got a new G1 and SOMEONE said, "hey, you wanna make you phone cooler, go to www.xda-developers.com", or "how did you get that wifi tether thing to work?" So, they show up totally confused and excited to make their g1 experience better. They search a little, read a little and end up completely lost like I did the first time I joined a forum because they really don't know anything but they want to learn. I know we post, "Read this first or get locked", or something like that, but they honestly don't know what to do. This is, in fact a forum, which is defined as a place to meet to discuss things. If we just want to dictate and not discuss, ask questions, answer, and help then why have an open forum?
I will give you this though, there are those that just don't care, know rules, know the proper flow of events and know how to do it in general but still just do what they want. The problem is, though, those are few and far between.
I constantly have to ready, "why is this thread here?", or "mods lock this please", or "don't you know how to use the search function"? Maybe the answer to that question is NO. So why not bee true senior members and answer the question but teach how to use search instead of ridiculing and acting like they are stupid. The fact is new people will ALWAYS show up to forums and will ALWAYS ask questions that you feel are dumb, and ALWAYS start threads without searching or reading so why get mad about it? Answer the question or don't answer the question and blow it off. Why such a big uproar?
Just my .02, sorry if my rant pissed you off and I hope you don't lock me for it.
gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
Just my $.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
gospeed.racer said:
One of the problems I have faced on here is that there are WAY too many threads that keep going and going, till they are 100 pages or better. When this happens, it is hard to expect people to read the entire thing, only to get to the last page and find that the method has now changed. I am sure a lot of them give up and just ask in a new thread.
One thing that I think would definitely help the clutter is if the stickied posts are very clearly and plainly worded- almost to the point of "dumbing it down", so the newbies can understand it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is most certainly the case. I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting my SPL and HTC_CIME sticky posts so the first post would be as structured and easy to understand as possible.
That said, some people are also just lazy, don't know/care about stickies, or just don't have reading skills. Also, this is a hacking community. Information and developments move quickly. The sticky posts often become irrelevant or contain obsolete information pretty quickly. You have to just trust that the owner of the sticky will keep it maintained... but that's not always the case.
The basic problem here is do you promote inclusiveness or would you rather have a small pool of high quality members? If it were up to me, any time someone starts a new thread to ask "how i root" or "my a2sd broken HALP" it would be instaban.
setzer715 said:
I couldn't agree more. Maybe more Forum Titles would help instead of just development? We could start one call How To's. I would click there first in a heart beat and then find the thread about how to do things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea. It would be up to the OP's to keep them "fresh" though. Give all the developers a place to put their stuff, and keep questions out of it. Just recent, fresh methods and software, and easy to follow instructions. I wish I had something to contribute, as I really think this idea may help.
gospeed.racer said:
I am not a fan of wiki's, but a sub-forum for a Wiki style "how to" sounds to me like a great idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
jashsu said:
xda has a wiki actually. No one uses it though. Also, you'd be a fool to think that just because there is a well maintained wiki that newbies won't keep posting their spam anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
alapapa said:
in my experience, more subforums at this stage of the game almost always causes more headaches for mods than they assuage
re: your previous post -- i really feel you on the forum etiquette point, but it's hard to use that rationale to justify "PLEASE HELP - URGENT!!1" threads in the development forum, imo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, it would take more moderation. Someone to step and and handle it and I'm pretty sure the guy that started this thread was already asking for that. I'm just trying to off my opinion on what that new mod or mod's could moderate.
I'm really not trying to rationale the posts, I'm simply trying to provide a different point of view. As I've stated before, anytime there is an open forum for anyone to join there will ALWAYS be those posts. We could make it exclusive, where even I couldn't be part, but what would the point of that be? I thought the point was for people to share information and knowledge? Either way, lets let the dev's and mod's figure out what to do. I just hope I get to stick around.
setzer715 said:
I don't think we were actually saying another wiki. By the way you'd be amazed at how many people don't know what wiki is. Anyways, I think we're talking about a specific "How To" section that cant be posted on or responses on. It will have have How To's for Root, A2SD and whatever should go there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A stickied thread that indexes the [HOW TO] threads works pretty well for this purpose w/o as much overhead
setzer715 said:
I just hope I get to stick around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wouldn't worry. I don't think anyone (in their right mind, that is) wants to make this board exclusive to the point that potentially meritorious members can't contribute or get valid questions answered.
after all...most noobs eventually grow out of it if they stick around long enough
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe we should have a troubleshooting subsection, which would automatically filter out all the "I have a brick" type threads from the development forum.
neoobs said:
I agree with many points,
Our forum is cluttered
We need more mods
I want a subforum for questions and answers that I can move all threads that are asking questions to.
Currently it is hard to know what to sticky and what not to sticky when we have a lot of topics in one forum. (how to root, each custom rom, how to get tethering working, how to register, etc)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was kinda my point. Development should be just that. Direct people looking for how to's or question's to different forums. Instead of just an extra How To, how about a Q n A one also? Then the development forum wont be cluttered and can just be for developers when they are working on stuff.
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
+1
Force people to use the damned search button before post... or limit the posting of threads to people that reply 20 times at least more than 20 words...
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
jagpoag said:
I say ban anyone found doing this more than ONE time, period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bit extreme. Maybe we can educate instead.
I agree with u tr8. I am actually one of the people who both gives a straight forward answer and uses the search button or Google. But then again I read through tons of threads just for educational purposes. Lol. I have personally answered the same question over and over. Helping takes just as much time as flaming and someday u might ask a question someone smarter than u might think is flammable. Lets keep that in mind.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
Roflmao. I agree with your point as well. Both sides are very valid. All I'm saying is either answering with something productive or passing it by is logical. Flaming is a waist of time. If the didn't take the time to research then flaming them wont make them think they should. That's all. And u can't find a thread on here from me labeled anything like " how do I get to recovery " or anything like that. I agree with u completely.
Sent from my HTC Magic SparksMod using XDA App
ROFL..... I have seen the "use the search tool" so many times, on so many forums, it's not funny.
The problem with inbuilt search tools are these:
1: Spelling. Many users on the internet do not spell correctly. They abbreviate things, simply spell it wrong, or get the position of the letters in various acronyms around the wrong way. This makes searching for a particular word, or group of words, very hit-and-miss, as the particular thread that answers your question, may not show up in search results because either the searcher, or the poster, has spelt stuff incorrectly.
2: Global differences. Irrelevant in this instance and on this website, but a good example to make the point.... in Australia and most UK-background countries, we call it a "nappy" In USA, it's called a "diaper".
We call them "taps"..... USA calls them "faucets".... and others call them something else.
Because forums and the net are global entities, a search function should allow for dialect and language differences.... but this would be almost impossible, so a search function relies on the HOPE that MOST members have spelt things correctly, and MOST members all use the same terminology.
Are YOU going to post a thread with language/dialectural differences, on the off-chance someone from another country calls it something different ? "My toilet (bathroom) tap (faucet) isn't working (operational) - how do I fix (repair) the leak (breach / broken washer / cracked pipe)? "
3: Minimum number of characters. Most search functions have a minimum number of characters required, to perform a search, to weed out the useless "common" words like "at," "I," "on," "the," etc etc. Usually 4 characters minimum. It does not help that most technological things - especially on a forum such as this - are abbreviated or have acronyms that do not provide the minimum number of search characters required. On an automotive forum, for example, how does someone search for "AFM" "VTEC" "EFI" or such-like, if those terms don't reach the minimum? Computer and technology parts are the same.
If a forum has a minimum 4-character search function, how does anyone search for "HTC" or "HD2" ????? There is NO other option for spelling out those terms to something longer..... that's all their names are. They are not shortened versions of a longer word... that's it.
4: Trawling through the results. Oftentimes, when a search DOES result in a page of threads, it can take hours upon hours to read through them all, trying to FIND the answer within those search results. As mentioned above, most-times the responses are simply other users flaming the OP for not searching. Finding the actual answer within those threads could take days.
Users also go off on tangents when posting replies. So a simple thread asking "how do I do A" may have 3 useful replies, then 10 pages of totally irrelevant posts as reply #4 has gone off and described "how I did B instead of A" and the thread has followed suit.
Asking a quick question - and getting a handful of helpful responses - gets the question answered (usually)... in which case, the thread is closed, and doesn't "block up" the internet with more useless posts.
And if someone asks the same question next week, so what. A handful of helpful responses still gets the question answered, and the thread is closed, and the world continues to rotate.
The issue of users not-using / incorrectly-using the Search function is something that has existed since Jesus was pissing in his nappies (diapers, for our American readers).
It is not something that can be forced upon members, until the Search function itself is re-programmed to be fool-proof.
Only then, can you FORCE users to use it first, before being allowed to post a question.
The simple answer is this: If the same question is being repetitively asked over and over again, ask yourselves why?
Obviously, it is because the answer is not readily available in a more obvious position, for members to find.
If the answer is something simple - make it a sticky, so that people can find it more easily.
Create a wiki page or something similar, again so users can find it more easily.
But most of all.... if you aren't prepared to help a user who asks a dumb question, simply move on. As mentioned above, flaming that person achieves nothing.
Most people don't post questions because they are lazy. You have no idea how much time that person has, or hasn't, spent searching for an answer. So you have no right to flame them about asking a repetitive question.
People naturally get defensive when flamed, so their simple "please help me" post becomes a 10-page flame war of people defending their rights and reasons for asking a question, versus those members who feel they shouldn't have asked in the first place.
Ultimately, forums are for helping each other. If you can answer someone's question, or point them in the right direction, then do so. But FFS don't waste everyone's time, and bandwidth, flaming them and blocking up the forums..... which is usually the reason you flame them in the first place (for blocking up the forums)
I second that.
There could be some kind of FAQ-Sheriff on each forum how maintains a sticky thread with those questions everybody asks...
Some interesting/stimulating conversation here. What I fail to understand is why do experienced users waste their time flaming. Why even bother reading a thread when you know you won't afford another user help.
The OP has caused everyone enough frustration without causing multiple pages of 'garbage'; why add to this? Do we really believe that flaming will cause the 'ignorant' on the web to suddenly change their ways?
If anything, you (you meaning the flamer) are doing the rest of the community a courtesy by not flaming because those of us that are diligent and considerate enough of others to actually use search have less work to do in our searches.
I'd like to be clear on something: I'm certainly not targeting the flamer over the lazy bozo, both have faults but the flamer (being wiser, more intelligent, etc.) stands to be assigned a bit more blame (for the clutter) since they really are 'smarter' (or more educated - whichever you prefer) than the OP. Also, those that flame are more likely to read this thread than the lazy masses that just request help without search.
Agreement to the facts!
tr8rjohnk said:
Hello All:
(As you can see by my post count) I rarely post here. Its not that I don't want to participate in this awesome community; simply, unless I have a question that search (a wonderful tool that all should become familiar with - really, its much faster than waiting for someone to answer your question, specifically when its a re-post as many members often skip these or chastise you for not using some basic search skills) can not answer or I have something valuable to contribute (not an easy task here as there are some very dedicated members whose due diligence is not-notch), I prefer not to clutter the forum with, well, clutter...
That said, I would like to bring to our attention something of an annoyance. Let's call it a double fault of the repeat thread.
Oftentimes (let's face it 99% of the times), when a member searches for an answer to their question, they have to sort through a ton of threads from individuals (let's say these individuals are lazy because...) asking, often basic, questions that can be found with a little diligence on their part. These questions are many times answered by irritated members (whom rightfully believe that these people should be taught to educate themselves) and told to use search, not be lazy, etc.
Here lies the issue. This just adds to the "clutter". Many times, a kind-hearted member will chime in with a link or an actual answer to these "less-than-ambitious" persons and this is wonderful for the next member searching the forums for answers.
However, too many times, the thread ends with that irritated member scolding the "newbie" leading to another dead thread.
I understand why it would be inundating and wouldn't possibly suggest that a moderator delete or maintain these threads.
Instead, how about the OP (original poster) take the responsibility and clean up their own mess!
What I mean by this is that if you post a question and find yourself in the above position, be kind and responsible enough to post the solution (or link to the solution) as the last post of an otherwise useless thread. Consider, as you begin to educate yourself, you'll find yourself frustrated by the same thing.
Basically, consider the next member and yourself in the process.
Maybe consider linking this post (if you find it warrants merit) to the next "lazy" member that just tweaks you and maybe that member will have the courtesy to answering his/her own question (by posting in their own thread the answer or link) and making life easy for everyone, including themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post and I hope you've found it to not be "clutter".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
Lordrdx666 said:
I agree with this whole-heartedly and you have a very valid point... Sometimes searching does take some refining to do and all those amount of results actually look scary to the untrained eye..
Maybe because of this many people just ask their question on a forum ... And after that ..
The senior members get annoyed or irritated or whatever and then they just [email protected] them... Lol..
But its a great topic of discussion that you've made and this thread upon its growth should be made a sticky!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I appreciate the kudos.