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Considering Orbit 2...a few questions

I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!

Seriously... Don't bother!

LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?

You will miss your qwerty. I don't know your Blue Angel, But my TC (i think all PocketPCs) has a delay when somebody calls you. Your phone will ring/vibrate after the one who calls you hears the first ring. So if somebody just gives you a call with one ring (bip) you won't hear it! Is it the same in your case, or mine is special? Maybe somebody else with TC can confirm/infirm this...

Yea, mine sort of have that sort of dealy.
I don't use my QWERTY keyboard anyway so that's not a problem.

the_scotsman said:
LOL...it's that bad?
Can you explain why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just everything about it...
The build quality is terrible. Feels like a new hobbyist threw it together in 5 mins.
It seriously underperforms compared to my Old SE P990i and older XDA's
The modifications o2 have made to the software are rubbish.
I'm miffed I didn't hold out for the SE X1i

^ In your opinion, yes its not perfect, the screen is less than ideal but the build quality is great I think. Much better than my old SE P series phone which used to creak whenever squeezed etc and the flush screen is better than orbit 1
But I would hold out for the Diamond

I want the built in GPS, and the Diamond prices ae too much for what it is...
Any other decent HTCs with built in GPS?

the_scotsman said:
I currently have a Blue Angel and I'm considering upgrading to an Orbit 2.
How would the performance compare between the 2? They're both 400MHz, but I just wondered how the Qualcomm is compared to the XScale?
Apart from the video driver issue, are there any other problems with it? I'd mainly be usig it for a phone, and running Tomtom.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just switched from a Hermes/Tytn to the Orbit2. HardSPL'd it and installed the WM6.1 that's been floating about here and installed TomTom.
Losing the keyboard is a bit annoying (on screen is usable, but nowhere near as good) - but I realized I very rarely typed anything and smaller sized massively outweighs it.
GPS works very well - especially as Quick GPS which really does work.
Downsides:
Lost keyboard.
Upsides:
GPS - now just not having to lug around and charge my BT GPS module, but now much faster and lets me do all manner of stuff (geo-tag photos with a reg tweak), GPS trackers allowing me to see where I've been in google maps blah blah.
Much better camera - not so much the 2M -> 3M change - but AUTOFOCUS.
SMALLER - now it's not a small phone, but it's not an f'in brick like the last one.
No real difference noticed between the processors. Latest 6.1 I put on my Hermes made it lovely and snappy - and performs exactly the same on the Polaris. Only reservation I've got with the polaris is the screen res (i.e. same old rubbish). Not entirely convinced Hi-res WM is much better though after playign with colleagues PDAs - I've got an ipod touch and THAT is what i'd want somehow wedged into my phone..
In summary, if you want a phone now, I'd definitely get the XDA. If you can wait maybe see how Diamond and 3G iPhone stack up.
#edit - and build quality on my XDA (at least) is perfect. Nice solid feeling thing, love the slightly rubberized case.

Thanks very much for your opinion...I think I might just go with the Orbit 2 after all...a VGA screen would be nice, but I'm happy enough to have the standard one...and it's a little smaller than my BLue Angel so that's always a benefit.

Seriously this is an outstanding device. Software is software and any issues can 99% of the time be sorted with it and normally are, especially when you browse around these forums. Also bare in mind that all these devices now use windows mobile so I don't understand why someone would fault the Orbit 2 over another windows mobile device because of the software it comes with.....anyway the hardware itself is exceptional, I've posted a mini review if you look through my post history and there's plenty of in-depth reviews out there.
Losing the keyboard is a good thing in my opinion. A keyboard isn't necessary, its just as easy (if not easier) to use the software input (my personal preference is a T9 style pad that learns words and is very quick to use with just one hand like a normal phone) and obviously you save on weight and bulk.
The Orbit 2 looks great, is extremely responsive and comfortable to use and in my opinion is the best windows mobile device availible at this time.
Quick edit! - regarding the SW, the rom that the O2 Orbit 2 comes with is actually fine anyway, i've never encountered any issues with it - it would be nice to have the threaded SMS that 6.1 has but aside from that its fine and works great. Cheers!

SOunds like you're pretty damn happy with it then
So the 200MHz processor isn't an issue? Still responds well? Thing like TOmtom run well?

The Orbit 2 has a 400MHz CPU, it was the original Orbit that had 200 -it also has twice the amount of memory. TomTom was perfectly useable on the original Orbit but it noticeably runs smoother on the Orbit 2 - The Orbit 2 is a lot better at managing multiple tasks at the same time.
I was in two minds before upgrading becasue I had the original Orbit and wasn't sure if I'd get my money's worth. I was going to send it back if I wasn't happy with it. I'm more than happy with it though as you can tell! its a great device. You've always got that 14 day cooling period with O2 anyway so you may as well give it a go for yourself.

doh...you're right...I was thinking of the original Orbit.
No 14 day cooling off for me..I'm in Australia so the only way to get at a decent price is eBay.
I think I've been convinced to get the Orbit 2...just a pity it doesn't have VGA...and the diamond will probably be a fair amount more than the Orbit 2

Actually a the Diamond will be cheaper then the Polaris/Orbit2... But my oppinion is that the VGA is too much on a 2.8" screen...

The Orbit 2 is a damn good toy... after tuning the cache and graphic settings..speed was even better than before..
also gps works great...a lot of stuff in a small little case...

I am also happy with my orbit 2, copilot in mo is better then tomtom i have both installed.
I like golive's interface and extra settings plus the website for tracking is a good feature.
The Software available is none stop from here and other sources, unlike the iphone i had that you could only load decentish software if you hacked it..
a couple of minor gripes, the screen is a little shiny for sunny day use and the camera could be alot better.
apart from that i am very happy with it, let hops the diamond touch flo 3d becomes available then that will make this device look great.
the hsdpa speed is great when in the right areas, 50k download speed from my laptop...
the gps seems acurate enough, fast on a warm start as well.
its performance could be a little better but overall its very good.
I would install opera mini as i have found this much better then ie and opera mobile for day to day use.
as for the missing keyboard, try touchpal or the diamond keyboards, also make sure you adjust the sensivity of the screen do a search on here, i think the keyboard is great been software as you can load loads of different types and type quicker with the stylus on some over a flip out keyboard.
the flip out keyboard types can be a little thicker as well you cannot replace or remap keys like a software keyboard so there are plus's and minus's to both concepts...
if you type alot then get a bluetooth keyboard, or a laptop.....
i don't think you will b unhappy with your purchase...

Actually imho any HTC device when just introduced will very rarely be upto my expectation and initially i am always dissapointed,for the first few days,its just a matter of customizing(a heart felt thanks to this forum for teaching us how too) to our personal choice and then i just can't seem to live without them.When i took the Cruise i returned it the next day,very dissapointed with the handset,nothing it could do(and in the factory state it could'nt domuch)was enough,I thought that my Kaiser was far better,then after going through the Cruise forum went and picked it up again,customized it and now wonder how did I ever think negatively abbout this handset,I just love it the feel of it in my hand and also the perfomance,ended up keeping both the Kaiser and Cruise without regrets.

Best WM device for its money?!

Hey there guys,
New to this great Comunity, still new to Windows Mobile.
I'm a tech geek alright, and I love having all the newest tech gadgets around. I've wanted to get a WM phone so many times throughout the last few years but they were always behind in lots of aspects compared to the Symbian ones. Then HTC released its TyTNII with its holy specs, great design and somewhat compact size. This was my phone! Yeah, right! Then I found out about this huge issue with the video performance and followed it for about three monts waiting for a solution either from HTC or XDA. And OK - HTC had some problems with Qualcomm support for its stolen from Broadcomm chipsets whatever. So they released Diamond (and announced Raphael) with a new chipset and "3D GPU" which "processor enhances the user interface". And then again it needs tweaks to make it - not better, but just usable. Then all the other bugs and flaws users say about in this forum.
Can't HTC build a quality device that just works out of the box?! Then leave it to us mostly to customize it and somehow improve its usability!? Man, everyday I read about newer and bigger bugs and flaws. May be most of them will be overcomed thanks to this comunity, but were is HTC with its support for its high-priced devices!?
And again I'm about to leave the idea of having WM phone.
I've looked around for any other brands and models but found none more appealing. What do you think? What's the best WM device I can get in the next few months?
Any opinions are much appreciated.

To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give blackberry a chance They've never failed me. Infact, I had my HTC Touch Dual for about a month before switching back. lol.

calling someone is too complicated?
1.) hit the green button
2.) start tapping away or choose speed dial
3.) hit the green button
its similar to what other phones want from you in order to know who you want to call. If thats too complicated, you may also try voice commander?
that beeing said, I am very happy with my new i-mate 9502, but I also considered the samsung i780 and it looks like people who bought it are very happy with it, especially with the form factor and performance.
edit: key for me with winMo devices are things like hardware keys, to reach functions quickly, using a good launcher/today setup like pocketplus +
phoneweaver + todayagenda, etc. and a nice hardware keyboard.

partyhardy said:
simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calling is simple, one button... de ding "call simon mobile" etc.
The no error message and not getting calls though is an issue i dislike.
I want a "nippy" device we need better hardware to run the software and better software optimisation for the hardware.

i just bought htc touch enhanced couple of days ago, and for the price it's great. Now with the Diamond coming out, htc touch is getting cheaper, but it's great to use nontheless.
Installed some stuff on it, not enough to make it sluggish but enough to make it a pure pleasure to use and i would definitely recommend it.
Prekrasen telefon za tzenata si.

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.

demonizator said:
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that the people that use this site are not those that are going to say "my device is great" and then go away... The kind of people here are either those not satisfied, or those that want a little bit more from the hard ware and are not representative of all the device users.
The Diamond is an immensely powerfully device, and even with the UI stacked on top, it ticks away far more reliably than the iPhone (which for me just locked up a lot). If you don't like the UI, disable it and you'll have one of the most powerful WM devices there is...
WM devices don't need tweaking, but this site is devoted to tweaking them. I ran my Prophet perfectly happily on the stock WM5 ROM for over a year, before discovering this site to get it unlocked when the contract ended. I didn't need to tweak it or flash countless ROMs, but I wanted to...

I really hope you're right. I'm gonna wait a little bit more and get the Touch Pro version. It's just all these flaws I read about that stopped me from buying WM the past few years. But I guess I have to give up something to gain something more.

Maybe you want to take a look to the new Samsung. It seems as it's going to be a good device.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1039

WM6 for the money?
I bought a Dash on ebay and upgraded it to WM6 for $150.00.
I have a Mogul now, but the Dash was way easier to use.

In terms of bang-for-the-buck I think the Samsung i780 takes the cake. It is the most specced out phone in that price category. And if you buy one today it will have the newer firmware so it shouldn't have any real issues.
Oh and calling people on a WiMo phone is far easier than any other phone. Voice Command baby. It's the reason I can't leave the WiMo platform even if there are other great choices like the iPhone, Blackberry or even the all-but-dead Palm Treos. And if you DON'T like using Voice Command come on it's very easy to call someone as mentioned. In fact, back when Nokia had crap for menus and directional pads to get to your contacts WiMo phones had touchscreens that made it really easy in comparison. Today the touchscreen is still easier to use than the various jog dials, joysticks or what not that conventional phones have.

+1 for the i780. It is by far the quickest and most responsive PPC I have ever used, and the form factor is perfect. No rotating screens to wait for, all the keyboard shortcuts you could want, terrific build quality, good battery life, bargain price, and none of the HTC Flo-bloat that turns their machines from reasonable PPCs into lagging, crash-happy iPhone wannabes.

I gotta add a +2 for the I780 as well.
I was holding out for a touch pro myself, in fact i cut out a picture of it and put it on my wall at the office. Iv'e owned quite a few HTC models over the last while as well as a I600, and i gotta say the I600 altho it had less functionality far outshined all but my tytn 2, altho the tytn 2 could not match the I600 im picture quality with the camera.
Last week i was in vodacom shop and saw the I780 demo model, picked it up and played with it for a while and i must say it has been a long time since a phone made me go "wow" , i was totaly amazed at the speed of the thing, the look and feel of it is great, samsung put alot of work into making the menu's just right for any user from beginner to power user. I made up my mind right there and then and bought one on my credit card, that was 7 days ago.
my experience so far :
Proprioty connector sux since i have a bunch of standard usb cables lying around, but still its not a train smash since you get usb cable, car charger, spare battery as well as a seperate portable battery charger as well with the phone.
Speed is AWSOME, 624mhz of power you will definitely notice, i have not found a single movie clip that has once lagged or was out of sinc with video/audio. this phone is really FAST, even when multi tasking it doesnt slow down. i have 2 friends who own tytn 2 and both commented on the speed, they both think i tweaked it to make it faster, they refuse to believe its the stock speed. ofcourse i did not tweak it.
Plenty of memory, i have 152mb free memory space on the phone and i have around 20 apps installed. the phone can also technicaly take up to 32gb cards i have read, altho most users use 1gb-8gb.
GPS is great, i had a bit of problem setting it up as i didnt bother reading the manual etc, but once i figured it out it worked like a charm, it pin pointed me in seconds. google maps work great as well. Garmin XT which comes with the phone is in my opinion far better than tomtom could ever be so i am very happy with samsung's choice of gps software.
Touch pad mouse was what put me off buying the phone in the first place, but after 6 days i find myself using it more than anything else, it was weird to use the first few days but it is second nature now and the phone just wouldnt be the same without it.
the keypad looks really tiny and i have biggish fingers. I dont know why, maybe its because they are beveled quite a bit or something, but i find it very easy and comfortable to use, do yourself a favour and try it on a demo model, you will see what i mean. the phone has a bunch of shortcut keys that sit in all the right spots, thumbs up to samsung for doing a good job there. one thing i would have liked was a jog dial for easy up and down scrolling in opera, I downloaded a app that changes volume up/down to scroll up/down and my problem was solved.
Screen is nice and bright, even in sunlight i dont have a problem. 320x320 at 128dpi is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 95% of software out there works flawless at this resolution, since the release of the phone software developers have all been upgrading to support it. its mainly only HTC home that is a problem, but spb mobile which has more funtions works perfect so i am not bothered. I have installed all 20 of my favorite apps and all work nicely so im happy. there are some games that might be an issue tho, but its mostly old titles, every new game being released supports this resolution.
3G. Wireless, HSDPA etc : with my tytn 2 i had 1 bar to my router from the living room, with this phone i have almost full signal, i was really surprised with that. in the bathroom i used to get gprs only with the tytn 2, with this phone i get 3G+. anyway, that is how i have compared it to my old phone and found this one to have far better signal quality.
overall i love the phone, i am convinced i made the right choice. i would have loved a flash to be included with the phone, but other than that i just cant find any flaws.
I cant really comment on battery life as i am still playing with everything alot and using more battery life than i would on avarage, but currently battery lasts me almost 2 full days and trust me, i put it under alot of stress plus you get a second battery with the phone for free. but i estimate 3 to 4 days if you dont put to much strain on it.
O also forgot to mention, video calling worked out of the box much to my surprise. phone came with the E1 rom installed.
Software currently on phone and working perfectly :
Skype
SmS Chat ( threaded sms app )
google maps
Opera
core player
real player
Esmertec Jbed
Advabced config Tools
Adobe reader
Fun contact
Keyswop
Pocket IRC
Pocket Rar
PqzII
Safemode 2
Garmin XT
SPB Mobile shell
WKTaskL
Samsung today plugin
Astraware Casino
Tetris
Machines of war
Flash player
Total commander
Call firewall.
And no i did not install realvga, i am using the default 128dpi resolution i got the phone with.
Anyway, hope this helps with your descision. what you really need to do it test the phone yourself, i warn you tho, once you pick it up you wont want to put it down
In my country the HTC Tytn 2 is selling for R8900, and its already an dated model.
the I780 is selling for R5200 which is ALOT cheaper and this phone blows smoke in the tytn 2's face. so in my opinion this is by far the best bang for buck out there.
Its kinda like buying a 9600gt when everyone else is buying the 8600gts .... just love seeying their faces when they realise they just pissed away a chunk of cash on the wrong thing
If all else fails read this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411053

The best windows mobile device for it's money is undoubtely the HTC Shift, for a mere 1000 dollars you'll get a run-down WindowsMobile OS, but also Vista. So you'll have a hybrid for the price of just a good laptop.
Isn't is great ?

I think the HTC Touch PRO will blow the competition away, seriously!!!
I was a symbian freak for years untill I bought my current device, the HTC S710 "Vox". Before the Vox I went trough several Symbian S60 devices including Nokia 7610, 6630, N70 & N73.
At first I thougt wm was a complete mess... and the UI looked terrible imo... I was also a bit shocked that there was no copy/paste (at least in wm6 standard). In S60 there was a dedicated pencil key used for just copy/paste actions + other stuff..
Things have changed...
Now after using my Vox fox exactly one year there's no way I'd go back to only using symbian S60 again.
Even though I'm only using the non-touch version of wm I've noticed all the advantages of wm compared with symbian S60.
Let me list a few of them:
1. Messaging: Sending SMS & MMS with a S60 device is OK but nothing more, the whole messaging interface in a S60 3d edition device is inferior. It's hard to explain but it's just doesn't compare to what it feels like on a wm device. It's like using a 3310 with a color screen if you know what I mean. Oooold T9 (forget about xt9 with word prediction & etc), the whole interface looks like a joke, and the S60 MMS editor doesn't even have a 3'rd of every options you can find in a standard WM device these days.
2. Email: OMG, If you wanna check your mail on a S60 device you'll be seriously depressed. Reading emails on a S60 device is like reading a standard SMS. You can forget all about HTML email and everything looks incredibly boring. Yes there are some really good 3rd party apps like profimail but still they're no match for the built-in mobile outlook when it comes to displaying your emails.
3. Calendar: There's no comparision here, WM6 calendar thrumps the S60 one, nothing more to say!
4. Contacts: S60 is far far behind, there's so much easier and faster finding a contact in WM6, especially when you can search contacts quickly just by typing there first letters using xt9... And with Live messenger integrated (love it or hate it) with contacts it's a nice addition imo.
5. Office applications: OMG... This is overkill for S60!!! Even WM6 standard edition nowadays includes Office mobile which beatifully renders word, excell & powerpoint files. It's a shame it doesn't allow you to create new documents (on WM6 standard) but that can easily be fixed with a simple patch from modaco forums... S60 includes quickoffice, it's not a bad application at all but documents rendered in quickoffice doesn't even look nearly as good as they do in office mobile.
6. WIFI: No competition here at all... WM is superior in remembering hotspots and connectivity.
7. ActiveSync: Says it all doesn't it??? Nokia have PC Suite, it's a great app but it's no match if you're using outlook... It works ok but doesn't sync everything like activesync does so wm is the winner here as well....
8. Live Messenger: Probably not very important to a lot of people but for me it's very important. With WM6 I can use the native WM Live messenger client completely for free. There's no way to do that on Symbian because MS is charging for using it on other platforms
There's probably more I could add to the list but I must mention all my troubles with wm in the beginning have been solved, I'm using Vito Copy/Paste for the copy & paste issue & I've also added celetask to a hardware key so my phone actually works better in this apartment than I could ever wish four... Of course Symbian S60 also have advantages, like better cameras & video recording, more display colors & better gaming with the new N-gage platform etc... but in the end I think WM is a more advanced & better platform. I think WM is more appealing for geeks & techheads because you can tweak your device to infinity. And I'm still only talking about WM Standard, WM6 PRO is even more versatile.
S60 is fun for a while but in the end it gets boring as hell...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Performance issue of WM are device specific. After being a HTC hardcore for many years, and after quite a number of frustating moments I decided to switch.....almost bought myself the new Nokia E71 and abandon WM altotgether BUT - I decided to give it one more try with WM and now it's with a Samsung. And that's how I ended with the i780.
With the i780 (DXHE1 Rom), it's like a rediscovery for me. After getting used to HTC sluggishness and sporadic freeze-ups, I was genuinely astounded by how nimble and steadfast this i780 is. I can recall until now I have not encountered any freeze-ups no matter how I abuse the programs running back to back. Yes some buggy program may screw up but the nice thing is it won't freeze the whole phone unlike HTC devices where a single program fails it will bring down the whole phone.
And for the price, the i780 is a steal. It has all the arsenal one could expect from HTC flagship models yet it cost way cheaper - that is a real deal to me.
If you are done with HTC, don't blame it on WM. Try different make, like i-Mate Arima build or Samsung or even Asus.

Convince me back!

I've been relatively happy with my HTC S710/Vox for over a year. The big problem I have with it is speed (CPU and lack of 3G) and lack of memory. Also, with the iPhone, I started missing having a touch screen as well.
So, the Touch Pro sounded like quite the solution to all my problems! More speed, more RAM, high-speed data, and a touch screen GUI that looks beautiful.
But when I finally got my hands on it at a local AT&T store, here were my feelings:
Heavier than my S710
Finger response was quirky
Not as responsive as I thought it would be
Thicker than expected
WinMo Pro/Touch is less intuitive than WinMo Standard/Smartphone
Orientation switch is slower than on my S710!
But it has everything I want hardware wise: high speed connections, GPS, a beautiful QWERTY keyboard, an FM radio, and TF3D.
I actually started looking at the Blackberry Bold and Samsung Epix after playing with the FUZE. All of them have their issues, but I did like the weight of the Bold, and I was surprised how useful the mouse control was on the Epix for one-handed operation! But the Epix is ugly, and the Bold is Blackberry.
So.... here's where I am:
I have been investing my mind in the Touch Pro for months now, and I want to want it. But right now, I feel a bit let down, and I feel like I'll regret spending the money on it because it'll end up being less usable and more bulky than my current S710!
Yes, I know the S740 is a great upgrade for the S710, but it's too $$$ and probably not even US 3G compatible. Also, it's probably too long and square. And there's no way for me to try it out w/o buying it.
The X1 could be an interesting option, but it's not subsidized by any carrier, and $800 is just too steep.
So, help me love the FUZE/Touch Pro again. Please. I don't know what my other options are!
Thanks,
Jon

Flash it with NATF's latest, and it improves a lot.
It's seriously an entirely new device after doing so.
Made me love it even more

Yea, I was VERY upset after I walked out of AT&T w/ my new Fuze. But after flashing ROMeOS and adding some CABs that I wanted, the device is completely different. Fast as hell, very stable, I consider it a very nice upgrade from my Tilt.
However, I really miss the tilt screen feature! I was able to hold that thing perfectly and type very fast but now I can't find a good grip on the Fuze.

I'm not sure if im just lucky, but when it comes to TF3D and screen orientation etc. It is perfect on my device. I get absolutely 0 lag in TF3D, when i change orientation it happens instantly, faster than on my iphone 3g. And my GPS worked 100% perfect with no lag out of the box without downloading telenav. Maybe im just lucky. :-X

joeh4x said:
I'm not sure if im just lucky, but when it comes to TF3D and screen orientation etc. It is perfect on my device. I get absolutely 0 lag in TF3D, when i change orientation it happens instantly, faster than on my iphone 3g. And my GPS worked 100% perfect with no lag out of the box without downloading telenav. Maybe im just lucky. :-X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, how would you compare you FUZE to your iPhone? I'm torn between these as well. I just tried both out again... the iPhone's touch interface seems much more usable and rewarding. The FUZE's touch screen seems finicky.

JonDeutsch said:
So, how would you compare you FUZE to your iPhone? I'm torn between these as well. I just tried both out again... the iPhone's touch interface seems much more usable and rewarding. The FUZE's touch screen seems finicky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had an iPhone, Tilt and Fuze. Of the three, the Fuze is my favorite. The iPhone, like all Apple products, has a clean and easy interface but I didn't like how limited everything was (you can only run apple approved apps, no browser other than Safari, no tethering, etc.) Also, personally, I like TF3D better than the iPhone interface.
And since I use my phone outside a lot, being able to use the touchscreen with gloves on and/or use a stylus was important to me and you can't do that with an iPhone.
All told, it depends on your personal preference. If you like the iPhone interface that much more than TF3D and don't care about application and touchscreen limitiations, you'll probably be happier with the iPhone.

ITNV said:
I've had an iPhone, Tilt and Fuze. Of the three, the Fuze is my favorite. The iPhone, like all Apple products, has a clean and easy interface but I didn't like how limited everything was (you can only run apple approved apps, no browser other than Safari, no tethering, etc.) Also, personally, I like TF3D better than the iPhone interface.
And since I use my phone outside a lot, being able to use the touchscreen with gloves on and/or use a stylus was important to me and you can't do that with an iPhone.
All told, it depends on your personal preference. If you like the iPhone interface that much more than TF3D and don't care about application and touchscreen limitiations, you'll probably be happier with the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I adjusted the touch sensitivity in the registry a couple of times and after that the navigation seemed a lot easier.

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I know you probably dont want to hear this but except for the keybord part, I think that the new Samsung Omnia is for you!
Why do I say that? I tell you why!
First of all I own a Touch pro and I am very happy with it after flashing a new rom and uppgrading the radio! However, the GPS lag is still there even if it is much less then when I first bought the phone!
Secound, video playback is just crap the video stutters and lags whole the time, so unless you dont mind waiting a few hours it takes to convert the video before putting it on your device then that is really an issue!
Third, the battery life sucks on the device! I have tried many different radios/roms but the battery still drains in less then one day! Yes, you could buy an extended battery, but that will add to the device thickness even more!
Now the only reason I am keeping my TP is in case someone comes upp with a solution to all the problems in the future, especialy the GPS lag!
Yesterday I bought the Omnia and now I am very happy!
First no more GPS lag, battery is still at 40% right now after 2 days of pretty heavy use, the video plays beautiful without any lag/stuttering what so ever, The camera is 5 MegaPixels that really shows it´s strenght!
You get 16 GB built in memory and you can add a mini sd to it as well!
The processor is clocked at 624 MHz and it is very fast, indeed the fastest device I had so far, and believe me when I tell you I have had plenty of them!
Granted that it has less Rom/Ram but it makes it up with the incredible speed, so I can bet you wont notice any difference at all!
The only drawbacks with this device I can think of is:
1. No hardware keybord (It is just like the Iphone, even the dimentions are almost exactly the same!)
2. The stylus ( You cant put it in the device, you have to hang it or put it somwhere else!)

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget Copy/Paste, MMS, Stereo BT... and many other features that are not on the iPhone or native to the iPhone... yes... I know there are "apps" that could fill in some of the gaps... but still
Just like with all new stuff, you'll have to get used to the 'touching' part on the Fuze. Also, there are apps out there that you can tweak your Fuze to get a better experience. Check out the tweaks thread.

Current device trend: Large screens, no jog dials or d-pads - Discuss

I'm a two year Kaiser user and have been happy with it generally. But the small screen and resolution, plus sluggish CPU is making me want to upgrade.
However HTC (and seemingly other manufacturers) seem to be shifting all UI interaction to the screen only (practically). I know I'm not the only one saddened by this, as d-pads and jog dials have their place and offer guaranteed responsiveness and precision which no screen tech can easily match. Unless you have fingers that look like stylii and a permanently steady hand.
Anyway, I'm just interested to hear if there are other people out there wishing for a Touch Pro 3 / Leo / Kaiser hybrid? Nice big screen, Snapdragon but a little d-pad squirrelled away at the bottom and jogger on the side. I wouldn't mind the phone being a bit longer to make it all fit.
Oh and I'm a business user and can appreciate that on a device like the Leo aimed more at the mass-market, the missing buttons aren't so important. But I think the Touch Pro line could do with them.

More than agree!
hardware keyboard is a must for me also, 2 lines of production I can see:
One for more multimedia non professional use like Leo and the second with more business capabilities like the keyboard
I´m sure TP3 will come out with larger screen, snapdragon and more surprises, but we have to wait at least 6 months for that.
just my opinion
Here some possible options:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=556749

i agree completely !
one of the things that i hate about mobile phone design is that everyone thinks that to make a better phone than the iphone you have to copy it rather than take the best ideas and improve on them.
i'm eagerly awaiting news of the touch pro 3 (rather than the touch hd2 / leo) because a hardware keyboard is important to me - i'm hoping that they'll include a scroll wheel and d-pad like my old kaiser in a form factor of my current xperia with a decent processor and the latest version of tf3d. they're all htc devices so it shouldn't be too hard ...

I agree, too. I still use my iPaq 210 daily not only because of the 4in screen, but for the dpad. It just doesn't feel like a pda without one. I would actually prefer phones to come wit jog dials on the side, but that's just a personal preference. How are we supposed to get anything done without them? I recently got a TD2, and while i like it, i don't think I will ever have it replace both my phone and PDA for lack of buttons. The main reason my BA was used so long was for all of its buttons.

I'm surprised to see people sticking up for jog dials -- I'd argue that the dial on my Kaiser is terrible, and WM doesn't handle 'em well anyways.
Dpads are nice, though. I'm particularly fond of the "stealth" pad on the Touch Pro.
At the same time, they're getting less and less useful. As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.

I agree that they are being used less in programs, but honestly how could you like the touch pro dpad? It is probably the worst i've ever used

typo said:
As more and more apps are designed to be finger-friendly, the usefulness of the dpad will decrease. I already find myself using it much less than I did, say, two years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finger friendliness is one thing, but buttons just can't be beaten in some cases. E.g. I use Profimail for email and when replying, I often need to position the text cursor (?) at the very top. If I do this with a finger it's very tricky to get it in the right place. Or positioning the cursor between the words for adding / removing characters etc. is easier with a D-pad. Or when walking and wanting to do things on the phone without giving the full concentration you'd need by focussing on and positioning your finger on the display.
I agree though the usefulness is decreasing but I just don't think it will ever decrease to the point the D-Pad should be removed, but HTC obviously do.
But people are concentrating on the benefits of faster cpus and forgetting the drawbacks of slower input.

Kaiser stolen. Should I replace it with a Touch Pro

My trusty Kaiser was stolen by Bangkok motorbike bandits :-(
I have had a look at HTC's latest offerings & the build quality is a bit flimsy for my liking considering the price tag !
I like a keyboard so options become more limited.
I can get a Vodafone Touch Pro for sensible money, is it a worth while upgrade, worried about the graphics speed, key mapping issues plus the useless d-pad design.
Basically how much better is the touch pro to the kaiser.
Thanks,

Got the Touch Pro for Christmas and took a while to get used to it but now there is no going back
VGA is so much nicer than QVGA regards graphics text etc.
TF3D looks so lush compared to M2D.
The amount of on board storage is amazing no more having to install everything to SD.
CPU speed is a defo bonus have noticed with games i play etc.
HW Keyboard is so much better regards typing and the extra row for no's i never used to use the Kaiser keyboard now with TP always use.
I'll agree not great for key mapping but are solutions, the d-pad design takes some getting used to as smaller\flush.
All i can say is go for it you will like and to be honest for the money i think the only substantial update from Kaiser.

That's a bummer about the loss. But, get the Touch Pro which is a step up!

Thanks for the replies.
stylez said:
Got the Touch Pro for Christmas and took a while to get used to it but now there is no going back
VGA is so much nicer than QVGA regards graphics text etc.
TF3D looks so lush compared to M2D.
The amount of on board storage is amazing no more having to install everything to SD.
CPU speed is a defo bonus have noticed with games i play etc.
HW Keyboard is so much better regards typing and the extra row for no's i never used to use the Kaiser keyboard now with TP always use.
I'll agree not great for key mapping but are solutions, the d-pad design takes some getting used to as smaller\flush.
All i can say is go for it you will like and to be honest for the money i think the only substantial update from Kaiser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What games do you play & do you have any issues due to button mapping & d-pad design ?
I played duke nukem, micropool, asphalt 3d, block breaker & chess on kaiser
I assume the build quality is very good with the touch pro, what's your opinion.
I also used my kaiser as an mp3 player, I assume from reading threads that touch pro should be better in this area.
After looking at the current creaky flimsy htc models I just can not part with serious $ for them so it looks like I'm bound for a touch pro & yet more months of tweaking & mortscript writing
Thanks for the replies

The main game playing on TP is Need For Speed and the graphics are sweet, playing Tripplix & Bejeweled too.
Build quality is good have to say i'm handling with more care as the Kaiser was a brick and could withstand anything i wouldn't put as much faith in the TP.
Has been good as an .mp3 \ video player, regards video it's defo better than Kaiser and has Radio "have to use the wired head set for signal"
You have volume control straight there on side and i have pretty much everything needed in 2-3 taps, there is software to do it just so busy making the device mine in kitchen not got around to it.
I think the main thing i like about it is the TF3D interface everything has fluid motion & 100% working landscape with TF3D 2.1, the gyrator is amazing being able to shake the device to turn off alarm in morning "using g-alarm" and just tweaky programs that use it.
Not sure what else to say? Apart from "just do it"

As a mechanical engineer I loved the Kaisers solid build & movements.
Hopefully the Touch Pro will surpise me or at least meet my satisfaction.
I have one on its way, on your head be it "Stylez" if I don't like it
Thanks.... !

Have to chuckle
You will like
Have fun when comes it may take a while to fall in love as it did me since the Kaiser is so well built but you will grow to love and then never put her down

Mmm ! I'm getting the feeling I've been mugged twice !! lol
I assume the build qualiy is pretty solid on the TP ? above average ?
Most reviews give it high ratings.
Oh well, soon be able to rate it myself

lol no you miss reading me
The Kaiser was a brick built like a tank no more modern devices could take a round from an ak47, moving onto any device will be change and a big one i had was not having a ROM to my specification to which time in the kitchen has sorted as you will know a device is more loved when made pimped to how you want.
The device is awesome

I'll let you know my opinion once I've got my hands on it & spent a little time together.
Thanks for your opinions. Helped me make the decision to go for the TP & save a fair few £'s over a new HTC model.

I think it's worth paying a little more for a Touch Pro 2. It tilts like the Kaiser, has higher resolution, and is just a better phone in my opinion. But if price is your issue, TP is fine or even getting another Kaiser is not bad. Kaiser's are dirt cheap on eBay nowadays.

I would either go with a Kaiser or jump to a TP2. The TP has a few quirks that I don't like (gets hot after a few minutes of usage) among a few other things.

Got a Touch Pro
well I went for the Touch Pro due to the fact I like the size, design & the spec should meet my needs.
I could of gone for the Touch Pro 2 but after handling one I was not willing to pay the price tag for the cheap feel of the device plus it is quite big.
The Touch Pro is a very capable device & can be had for sensible money making it a great buy.
Currently have mine running TAEL WM6.5.5 standard ROM & hours of tweaking.
I am happy with the device, slider could of been a little better !
Likes:
Great sound quality for mp3 playback (using 3.5 adaptor & SE w880 headphones)
Nice Screen
Tactile keyboard
Plenty of apps & support to resolve most users issues
build quality is good
nice sized device, not too big not too small
good amount of memory and RAM
Dislikes:
D-Pad fiddly to use
battery could do with more Mah
Keyboard Slider is not the smoothest or strongest feeling
A couple more hardware buttons would of been useful
This device is simply a good buy & can be had new for around £150
Got mine from Vodafone & was supplied unlocked.
Thanks for helping me with my quandary :-D

Glad you like
Cost the same as i paid and @ that the device is a steal.

Good choice; Indeed the D-pad sucks, especially in games like Call of duty 2 (which can be hardware-accelerated on the raphael).
You can always buy a bigger battery, though your raphael will get thicker if you do that.