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Best WM device for its money?!

Hey there guys,
New to this great Comunity, still new to Windows Mobile.
I'm a tech geek alright, and I love having all the newest tech gadgets around. I've wanted to get a WM phone so many times throughout the last few years but they were always behind in lots of aspects compared to the Symbian ones. Then HTC released its TyTNII with its holy specs, great design and somewhat compact size. This was my phone! Yeah, right! Then I found out about this huge issue with the video performance and followed it for about three monts waiting for a solution either from HTC or XDA. And OK - HTC had some problems with Qualcomm support for its stolen from Broadcomm chipsets whatever. So they released Diamond (and announced Raphael) with a new chipset and "3D GPU" which "processor enhances the user interface". And then again it needs tweaks to make it - not better, but just usable. Then all the other bugs and flaws users say about in this forum.
Can't HTC build a quality device that just works out of the box?! Then leave it to us mostly to customize it and somehow improve its usability!? Man, everyday I read about newer and bigger bugs and flaws. May be most of them will be overcomed thanks to this comunity, but were is HTC with its support for its high-priced devices!?
And again I'm about to leave the idea of having WM phone.
I've looked around for any other brands and models but found none more appealing. What do you think? What's the best WM device I can get in the next few months?
Any opinions are much appreciated.

To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Give blackberry a chance They've never failed me. Infact, I had my HTC Touch Dual for about a month before switching back. lol.

calling someone is too complicated?
1.) hit the green button
2.) start tapping away or choose speed dial
3.) hit the green button
its similar to what other phones want from you in order to know who you want to call. If thats too complicated, you may also try voice commander?
that beeing said, I am very happy with my new i-mate 9502, but I also considered the samsung i780 and it looks like people who bought it are very happy with it, especially with the form factor and performance.
edit: key for me with winMo devices are things like hardware keys, to reach functions quickly, using a good launcher/today setup like pocketplus +
phoneweaver + todayagenda, etc. and a nice hardware keyboard.

partyhardy said:
simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calling is simple, one button... de ding "call simon mobile" etc.
The no error message and not getting calls though is an issue i dislike.
I want a "nippy" device we need better hardware to run the software and better software optimisation for the hardware.

i just bought htc touch enhanced couple of days ago, and for the price it's great. Now with the Diamond coming out, htc touch is getting cheaper, but it's great to use nontheless.
Installed some stuff on it, not enough to make it sluggish but enough to make it a pure pleasure to use and i would definitely recommend it.
Prekrasen telefon za tzenata si.

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.

demonizator said:
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that the people that use this site are not those that are going to say "my device is great" and then go away... The kind of people here are either those not satisfied, or those that want a little bit more from the hard ware and are not representative of all the device users.
The Diamond is an immensely powerfully device, and even with the UI stacked on top, it ticks away far more reliably than the iPhone (which for me just locked up a lot). If you don't like the UI, disable it and you'll have one of the most powerful WM devices there is...
WM devices don't need tweaking, but this site is devoted to tweaking them. I ran my Prophet perfectly happily on the stock WM5 ROM for over a year, before discovering this site to get it unlocked when the contract ended. I didn't need to tweak it or flash countless ROMs, but I wanted to...

I really hope you're right. I'm gonna wait a little bit more and get the Touch Pro version. It's just all these flaws I read about that stopped me from buying WM the past few years. But I guess I have to give up something to gain something more.

Maybe you want to take a look to the new Samsung. It seems as it's going to be a good device.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1039

WM6 for the money?
I bought a Dash on ebay and upgraded it to WM6 for $150.00.
I have a Mogul now, but the Dash was way easier to use.

In terms of bang-for-the-buck I think the Samsung i780 takes the cake. It is the most specced out phone in that price category. And if you buy one today it will have the newer firmware so it shouldn't have any real issues.
Oh and calling people on a WiMo phone is far easier than any other phone. Voice Command baby. It's the reason I can't leave the WiMo platform even if there are other great choices like the iPhone, Blackberry or even the all-but-dead Palm Treos. And if you DON'T like using Voice Command come on it's very easy to call someone as mentioned. In fact, back when Nokia had crap for menus and directional pads to get to your contacts WiMo phones had touchscreens that made it really easy in comparison. Today the touchscreen is still easier to use than the various jog dials, joysticks or what not that conventional phones have.

+1 for the i780. It is by far the quickest and most responsive PPC I have ever used, and the form factor is perfect. No rotating screens to wait for, all the keyboard shortcuts you could want, terrific build quality, good battery life, bargain price, and none of the HTC Flo-bloat that turns their machines from reasonable PPCs into lagging, crash-happy iPhone wannabes.

I gotta add a +2 for the I780 as well.
I was holding out for a touch pro myself, in fact i cut out a picture of it and put it on my wall at the office. Iv'e owned quite a few HTC models over the last while as well as a I600, and i gotta say the I600 altho it had less functionality far outshined all but my tytn 2, altho the tytn 2 could not match the I600 im picture quality with the camera.
Last week i was in vodacom shop and saw the I780 demo model, picked it up and played with it for a while and i must say it has been a long time since a phone made me go "wow" , i was totaly amazed at the speed of the thing, the look and feel of it is great, samsung put alot of work into making the menu's just right for any user from beginner to power user. I made up my mind right there and then and bought one on my credit card, that was 7 days ago.
my experience so far :
Proprioty connector sux since i have a bunch of standard usb cables lying around, but still its not a train smash since you get usb cable, car charger, spare battery as well as a seperate portable battery charger as well with the phone.
Speed is AWSOME, 624mhz of power you will definitely notice, i have not found a single movie clip that has once lagged or was out of sinc with video/audio. this phone is really FAST, even when multi tasking it doesnt slow down. i have 2 friends who own tytn 2 and both commented on the speed, they both think i tweaked it to make it faster, they refuse to believe its the stock speed. ofcourse i did not tweak it.
Plenty of memory, i have 152mb free memory space on the phone and i have around 20 apps installed. the phone can also technicaly take up to 32gb cards i have read, altho most users use 1gb-8gb.
GPS is great, i had a bit of problem setting it up as i didnt bother reading the manual etc, but once i figured it out it worked like a charm, it pin pointed me in seconds. google maps work great as well. Garmin XT which comes with the phone is in my opinion far better than tomtom could ever be so i am very happy with samsung's choice of gps software.
Touch pad mouse was what put me off buying the phone in the first place, but after 6 days i find myself using it more than anything else, it was weird to use the first few days but it is second nature now and the phone just wouldnt be the same without it.
the keypad looks really tiny and i have biggish fingers. I dont know why, maybe its because they are beveled quite a bit or something, but i find it very easy and comfortable to use, do yourself a favour and try it on a demo model, you will see what i mean. the phone has a bunch of shortcut keys that sit in all the right spots, thumbs up to samsung for doing a good job there. one thing i would have liked was a jog dial for easy up and down scrolling in opera, I downloaded a app that changes volume up/down to scroll up/down and my problem was solved.
Screen is nice and bright, even in sunlight i dont have a problem. 320x320 at 128dpi is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 95% of software out there works flawless at this resolution, since the release of the phone software developers have all been upgrading to support it. its mainly only HTC home that is a problem, but spb mobile which has more funtions works perfect so i am not bothered. I have installed all 20 of my favorite apps and all work nicely so im happy. there are some games that might be an issue tho, but its mostly old titles, every new game being released supports this resolution.
3G. Wireless, HSDPA etc : with my tytn 2 i had 1 bar to my router from the living room, with this phone i have almost full signal, i was really surprised with that. in the bathroom i used to get gprs only with the tytn 2, with this phone i get 3G+. anyway, that is how i have compared it to my old phone and found this one to have far better signal quality.
overall i love the phone, i am convinced i made the right choice. i would have loved a flash to be included with the phone, but other than that i just cant find any flaws.
I cant really comment on battery life as i am still playing with everything alot and using more battery life than i would on avarage, but currently battery lasts me almost 2 full days and trust me, i put it under alot of stress plus you get a second battery with the phone for free. but i estimate 3 to 4 days if you dont put to much strain on it.
O also forgot to mention, video calling worked out of the box much to my surprise. phone came with the E1 rom installed.
Software currently on phone and working perfectly :
Skype
SmS Chat ( threaded sms app )
google maps
Opera
core player
real player
Esmertec Jbed
Advabced config Tools
Adobe reader
Fun contact
Keyswop
Pocket IRC
Pocket Rar
PqzII
Safemode 2
Garmin XT
SPB Mobile shell
WKTaskL
Samsung today plugin
Astraware Casino
Tetris
Machines of war
Flash player
Total commander
Call firewall.
And no i did not install realvga, i am using the default 128dpi resolution i got the phone with.
Anyway, hope this helps with your descision. what you really need to do it test the phone yourself, i warn you tho, once you pick it up you wont want to put it down
In my country the HTC Tytn 2 is selling for R8900, and its already an dated model.
the I780 is selling for R5200 which is ALOT cheaper and this phone blows smoke in the tytn 2's face. so in my opinion this is by far the best bang for buck out there.
Its kinda like buying a 9600gt when everyone else is buying the 8600gts .... just love seeying their faces when they realise they just pissed away a chunk of cash on the wrong thing
If all else fails read this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411053

The best windows mobile device for it's money is undoubtely the HTC Shift, for a mere 1000 dollars you'll get a run-down WindowsMobile OS, but also Vista. So you'll have a hybrid for the price of just a good laptop.
Isn't is great ?

I think the HTC Touch PRO will blow the competition away, seriously!!!
I was a symbian freak for years untill I bought my current device, the HTC S710 "Vox". Before the Vox I went trough several Symbian S60 devices including Nokia 7610, 6630, N70 & N73.
At first I thougt wm was a complete mess... and the UI looked terrible imo... I was also a bit shocked that there was no copy/paste (at least in wm6 standard). In S60 there was a dedicated pencil key used for just copy/paste actions + other stuff..
Things have changed...
Now after using my Vox fox exactly one year there's no way I'd go back to only using symbian S60 again.
Even though I'm only using the non-touch version of wm I've noticed all the advantages of wm compared with symbian S60.
Let me list a few of them:
1. Messaging: Sending SMS & MMS with a S60 device is OK but nothing more, the whole messaging interface in a S60 3d edition device is inferior. It's hard to explain but it's just doesn't compare to what it feels like on a wm device. It's like using a 3310 with a color screen if you know what I mean. Oooold T9 (forget about xt9 with word prediction & etc), the whole interface looks like a joke, and the S60 MMS editor doesn't even have a 3'rd of every options you can find in a standard WM device these days.
2. Email: OMG, If you wanna check your mail on a S60 device you'll be seriously depressed. Reading emails on a S60 device is like reading a standard SMS. You can forget all about HTML email and everything looks incredibly boring. Yes there are some really good 3rd party apps like profimail but still they're no match for the built-in mobile outlook when it comes to displaying your emails.
3. Calendar: There's no comparision here, WM6 calendar thrumps the S60 one, nothing more to say!
4. Contacts: S60 is far far behind, there's so much easier and faster finding a contact in WM6, especially when you can search contacts quickly just by typing there first letters using xt9... And with Live messenger integrated (love it or hate it) with contacts it's a nice addition imo.
5. Office applications: OMG... This is overkill for S60!!! Even WM6 standard edition nowadays includes Office mobile which beatifully renders word, excell & powerpoint files. It's a shame it doesn't allow you to create new documents (on WM6 standard) but that can easily be fixed with a simple patch from modaco forums... S60 includes quickoffice, it's not a bad application at all but documents rendered in quickoffice doesn't even look nearly as good as they do in office mobile.
6. WIFI: No competition here at all... WM is superior in remembering hotspots and connectivity.
7. ActiveSync: Says it all doesn't it??? Nokia have PC Suite, it's a great app but it's no match if you're using outlook... It works ok but doesn't sync everything like activesync does so wm is the winner here as well....
8. Live Messenger: Probably not very important to a lot of people but for me it's very important. With WM6 I can use the native WM Live messenger client completely for free. There's no way to do that on Symbian because MS is charging for using it on other platforms
There's probably more I could add to the list but I must mention all my troubles with wm in the beginning have been solved, I'm using Vito Copy/Paste for the copy & paste issue & I've also added celetask to a hardware key so my phone actually works better in this apartment than I could ever wish four... Of course Symbian S60 also have advantages, like better cameras & video recording, more display colors & better gaming with the new N-gage platform etc... but in the end I think WM is a more advanced & better platform. I think WM is more appealing for geeks & techheads because you can tweak your device to infinity. And I'm still only talking about WM Standard, WM6 PRO is even more versatile.
S60 is fun for a while but in the end it gets boring as hell...

partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Performance issue of WM are device specific. After being a HTC hardcore for many years, and after quite a number of frustating moments I decided to switch.....almost bought myself the new Nokia E71 and abandon WM altotgether BUT - I decided to give it one more try with WM and now it's with a Samsung. And that's how I ended with the i780.
With the i780 (DXHE1 Rom), it's like a rediscovery for me. After getting used to HTC sluggishness and sporadic freeze-ups, I was genuinely astounded by how nimble and steadfast this i780 is. I can recall until now I have not encountered any freeze-ups no matter how I abuse the programs running back to back. Yes some buggy program may screw up but the nice thing is it won't freeze the whole phone unlike HTC devices where a single program fails it will bring down the whole phone.
And for the price, the i780 is a steal. It has all the arsenal one could expect from HTC flagship models yet it cost way cheaper - that is a real deal to me.
If you are done with HTC, don't blame it on WM. Try different make, like i-Mate Arima build or Samsung or even Asus.

Raphael vs. iPhone 3g

Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?

If you want a keyboard, higher res screen, multitasking, slingplayer, a wireless modem for your laptop, support from xda dev like me, then you have to get the raphael. Otherwise the iphone would be ok i suppose.

My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!

Plus there's no Cut/Copy/Paste functionality and the only Bluetooth profiles it supports are headset and hands-free, so no file transfers or music streaming.
And you'll have to put up with poor 3G reception: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/13/iphone_not_very_3g/

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sort of related to pros...
I had the Diamond for a week and sent it back as the battery life was useless. Also the device heated up a lot when in use. The last straw came when I was trying to use it on the beach and the screen was totally washed out.
I am currently trying out an iPhone, and I must admit it does most all of what I want (phone/email/web) and some more... and the screen is visible in bright sunlight! Just need to get over some missing things - and itunes. Oh, and O2 network (useless 3G - have to switch it off most of the time). Oh, and iplayer works fantastically... thats almost sold me now.
I still have my TyTn2 in case I need a MS6.1 fix, but as things are going, I doubt it.

WatskeBart said:
My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with WatskeBart 100%. The iphone has impressive hardware with the exception of the lack of keyboard of course but it can't do all that a normal smartphone can do because of the software on the device. If all u want is a media player and internet browser then u should get an iphone 3g. If you are a phone techie then u will be disappointed all the way. Not to say that the touch pro can't be a media player. As i'm writing this email i'm listening to music on my touch pro and i was watching Hancock like 30 mins ago.

HTC for sure!!
I talk from personal experience as I had an iPhone 3g before selling it to buy my Touch Pro.
I had the original iPhone which i soon chopped in for an N95 8gb as it was too slow for net usage and the lack of apps was rubbish. I then got the upgrade to the 3g iPhone thinking this would be an amazing bit of kit due to 3g, GPS and the new App Store. After a week of owning it I was not impressed at all.
Firstly the 3g, its half speed of the HTC only 3.4 i think as opposed to 7.2mbs and even when it does get a 3g connection it times out constently. Then when the 3g connection drops it fails to switch to Edge or GPRS sometimes which means it will never connect.
The GPS is ok, although running google maps of both the accuracy on the TP is much better I found plus you cant put TomTom on the iPhone at present.
Then there is the app store, what a load of tosh. The apps that are free are free becos, well you wouldn't pay for them and to be honest I found I had a load of apps installed just becos you could not becos you wanted them.
I would say the only thing the iPhone does better is music and games, being an iPod it should be and the games you can buy do run very well although limted due to control system.
Another niggle i had with the iPhone is the new case, it scratches so easy and you always feel you have to treat it with cotten gloves. One day indoor use and i had hairline scratches on the apple logo
I sold my iPhone on ebay for a tidy sum and have had a week with the Touch Pro and am so glad i did it.
Plus if you geta WM you get help and support from all the peps on here, the iPhone community is no where near as good lol

2 things which bother me about iphones are
1. got a free rss program of itunestore for my ipod touch
and without copy paste one have to surf to the rss feed one wants
and write it down on a note open the rss program and write it there
silly that one cant copy paste
2. got a free ebook reader program but only way one can get ebooks is from www url's
no option to get all the ebooks on my computer into the ipod
so it's useless
suspect the lack of freedom with iphones / ipods
both consering accessing data from ones computer and
lack of SD data or even basic filesystem access
are one of their biggests problems

forgot tomtom, and a2dp. use that all the time too.... iphone cant do either.

HTC as the it can access parts of the internet the iphone carn't reach

Touch Pro rocks!
I personnally think the Touch Pro and iPhone are not / should not even in the same category at all:
- 2.8" screen for "pocketability" vs 3.5" screen for comfort
- Full qwerty keyboard vs no keyboard (granted, the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone is even better to use than PCM Keyboard on my VGA 4 inches-screened HX4700, mainly due to the capacitive touchscreen)
- On one side, the nerly endlessly extensible Windows mobile, can do anything, but you can't expect noobs to fiddle with the registry everyday and swap ROMs to have a better-working device
- On the other side, the iPhone platform is less open, but easier to use for nOobs, apps are easy to install, and (where the features are actually implemented) it just works
Surely there are other different points!
I myself just couldn't care to be ensconced in the iPhone, with clearly throttled-down features (no A2DP protocol for BT, no MMS, no video with the camera, no f#$..g copy-paste, for Krishna's sake? How hard can it be?).
My vote goes for the Touch Pro!
My 0.02$...

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that kmann could make his decision based on our replies

plain and simple........copy and paste........nuff said.
the iphone is just a glorified Ipod, the HTC phones are usable computers in your hand and much much more.

I would suggest that you take a look at the iphone thread on the macrumours forum. You get the views of a large number of iphone owners there. To my mind, they fall into 3 categories: On the fence types, fan boy types (for whom the iphone can do no wrong) and a substantial number of people who are having real problems with the iphone - not so much the things that are missing (cut and paste, a2dp etc.) but problems with doing basic phone stufff (like making calls) and build quality issues (cracks appearing in casings, bits falling off/ stopping working etc.).
I am not an iphone hater - I have an Ipod touch with the very latest firmware on - it is a great music player and some of the apps from the apple store are good fun - I have even bought a couple! I have also spent a couple hours playing with the latest iphone (a friends'), as a phone and a serious business tool, it just didn't cut it for me.

Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.

kmann said:
Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.

jasjamming said:
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, one of the top chefs of all time goes with the E71 (it is a badass device btw). Are you considering getting a touch pro and cooking for it or are you just chillin in the forums (hope its the former or your part of the elite project).

I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree with Eriols arguments. The program starting part can be quick on HTC i think that depends on how your ROM is configured.

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that brings it back to what WatskeBart said earlier about the iphone being a gadget not a power house phone. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the iphone i think the hardware is excellent for a second try but there need to be some tweaking. They should open up the software and do like google did for andriod offer 10k for the best iphone progs.

HTC Touch Pro Owners' Poll

Hey guys,
Although I am not among you, I think it would be extremely helpful/eye-opening to conduct a poll of all current HTC Touch Pro owners who have had their device for enough time to make an initial assessment of the device's quality. That means probably at least a week--but use your own discretion. Just a few suggested guidelines:
Don't let the initial euphoria blur your judgment
Think for a few moments before submitting a vote
Compare, if possible, the quality of the device to, say, that of an iPhone, if you've ever owned one or used it extensively, to provide a point of reference.
I look forward to hearing everyone's input!
-Steve

I think it would be helpful if you clarified what you mean by "device quality". Hardware, software, reception, screen, input, battery, performance, etc. Maybe you're asking for "all of the above", but at least it would help people approach it catagorically -- that way people can speak to specific things that have made an impression on them.

It's the best i've used, and the best there is on the market at this moment. I've shut off TF3D though and replaced it with Mobile Shell. Now using it with great pleasure.

With the exception of the "sleeve" and somewhat slow GPS, I am very pleased with my TP.

Great device, and i bet there is more to come with some updates in the near future. That's the reason I voted Above Avarage.
As far as functionality goes, it has all I want: telephone, mail, internet and navigation. Next to that there is a lot of software out there.
A few quircks here and there ofcourse. Like almost instant fixes with Google Maps...and 15 to 20 minutes GPS fixing time with Tom Tom 7.
Battery life could be better as well
I would have liked to add some today plugins into TF3D, or be able to add new tabs

fhsieh said:
I think it would be helpful if you clarified what you mean by "device quality". Hardware, software, reception, screen, input, battery, performance, etc. Maybe you're asking for "all of the above", but at least it would help people approach it catagorically -- that way people can speak to specific things that have made an impression on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah; I was thinking about doing a categorical breakdown, but in the end, that would have taken a lot of polls.
I hope this is sufficient.

two big problems:
1. battery consumption
2. signal reception

othersteve said:
Yeah; I was thinking about doing a categorical breakdown, but in the end, that would have taken a lot of polls.
I hope this is sufficient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, maybe not with the poll, but at least for any comments. I mean everyone has different needs and expectations for the device so it'll be hard to judge the poll accurately without seeing some objective testimony.
But what am I babbling about, here's some of my thoughts:
- Not the most solid handheled device I've had (my old iPaq hx4700 was a tank), but it comes very close and is definitely not a cheap build. Better than the Blackjack and some Blackberries, but I haven't spent very much time with those and I certainly don't know how well the TPro's build will last over time.
- WM6.1 isn't perfect, but then XDA is very active. Plus there are apps for just about anything you need. I spent some time with a Nokia N800, and while it's nice that Maemo is (almost) completely open-source -- which makes for an equally active community -- you're plain out of luck if no one is developing something you need. Namely, the software probably exists on standard Linux distros, but very little of it has been ported to Maemo. This is the same reason I decided not to jump on the Android bandwagon right away.
- Finally, I now have one device that does everything I needed my old devices to do. US phone (Nokia 6300), Japan phone (SE W43S), electronic dictionary (hx4700), internet device (hx4700/N800), mp3 player.
- Same observations as others: GPS is laggy, though not really an issue since I only use it as a pedestrian; battery life isn't impressive. I will probably buy a USB battery pack later.

So far v.happy, just need to solve the backlight issue when in call, and the Sim contacts list.

I've had my TP for almost 3 weeks now - it was one of the first on the market. I have used HTC qwerty based devices for several years now and this is by far the best device. I dearly loved my Tytn II but the hardware in this device is much better.
I own a 3G iPhone also and while this device is definitely a joy to use it is far from ever replacing my TP as my preference business device.
I decided to continue to run the 3D flow against other utilities but it's far from perfect - however developed with the correct user feedback it will be a great tool.
While 6.1 runs quite smoothly on the device the interface obviously lets the device down. I also have had a few lockups but no more than other devices.
The battery is pretty shocking to be honest. I use a scheduler to shut down BT and even the radio stack at night to preserve battery but to be honest if I were going away for anymore that 24 hours I would have to take a charger.
GPS has has been quick to locate a signal but I've encountered issues with TT6 \ and or Googlemaps. I currently run IGO8 and it runs very well.
Finally this device has a half-decent web browser on it - Opera mobile is great. IE mobile is a shambles.
Micro SD is essential - currently running an 8GB card with all my music, apps and vids. No idea why they left it off the Diamond - crazy in my opinion.
If anyone has any quick questions I'd be happy to answer them.

I was hoping by going with a non-American device (which has three times the processor of its American counterparts), I would have a more stable device. Overall, best phone I've ever had. A little disappointed that I need to soft reset every couple of days.
Don't regret it...leaps and bounds over my previous device.

Wow guys, thanks a ton for the feedback so far. This is extremely informative stuff to all of us prospective buyers. Personally, I'll be getting the phone through our Sprint corporate account, but as with everything that's a significant investment I have been trying to read up as much as possible on it beforehand to accurately set my expectations and prepare myself for problems that will need to be solved.
I use SPB Mobile Shell on my Mogul right now, and while I like it, I love the flair of TouchFlo3D... I just hope it is equally useful and quick (so far to that end it seems to be not quite as useful). I think I will try replacing the default contact manager on my Pro with Finger-Friendly Friends provided that will work all right. I also hope that the US release a month or so from now will see additional improvements in terms of software stability and speed (though probably not battery life).
Apart from that, I'm quite excited about everything I have read about the device. And I've always been a sucker for statistics, so having a poll on such an educated and active forum is of remarkable interest.
-Steve

The best device that I ever owned.
Like others I´m having some troubles with the GPS (reception time) and other issues like the screen going of of on a call.

So far I kinda like it.
Nevertheless I'll vote in the pole and give a complete feedback as soon as HTC repairs it (I have a sound problem...)

Hows the sound quality of the internal speaker?
Greetings
LordK

The only problem of the internal speaker is that the volume is a little bit low (compared to my colleagues' blackberrys)

Rated it Above Average!
I am using the TP for 2 weeks now. I've experienced the 'broken glass' screen and the grey-screen once.
The device is pretty quick and TF3D works nice although there are some moment when it does something completely different than what i wanted it to do.
Issues i like to see solved:
- Album cover view in TF3D music tab
- Fix for lag with TomTom
- Battery usage
Things I love:
- Memory
- Speed
- Screen
- Keyboard

I've had mine 3 weeks so far, upgrading from my beloved HTC Universal. It's a great machine but I'm not blind to it's faults, I Like Touch Flo a lot but it's just a thin layer over old ugly windows mobile.
As powerful as it is it just isn't as responsive as an iPhone, way too sluggish, expect the usual windows mobile pauses and spinning wait cursor.
The screen is too small, I liked my big screened Universal but the screen is such high quality it goes some way to making up for being small (it really is crisp).
The keyboard is ok but it's a thumbboard, I won't be knocking out the emails I used to on it. The slide action is distinctly wobbly to me, not bad, but not the decisive slide movement I expected. The onscreen keyboard is surprisingly usable much more so than the bigger IPhone one.
Memory is fantastic, loads of it, I never bother shutting things down which I was always doing on the universal.
Lockups, yup a disappointing number but a definate improvement on the universal.
GPS, not really a problem, it seems fast, but as far as I can see tomtom5 doesn't initialise the built in gps reciever so I start googlemaps, get a fast lock then switch to tomtom I notice tomtom6 has an option for built in GPS.
Lack of headphone socket is a crazy omission, it's driving me crazy and was almost a factor in not buying it, it's only 10 quid for an adaptor but just something else to carry.
The opera browser is pretty good and responsive but the icons it uses are way too chunky considering the screen is so small, talking of chunky, the menus are all pretty huge, I found how to make the start menu smaller but most menus now eg messaging, need arrows at the top and bottom to scroll the duplo vision menus into place. Also needed a hack to get googlemail working and is so small that almost every site needs a zoom to read it whereas I found I could read a lot of sites on the iPhone without zooming.
I also hate the mini sd card being hidden inside the case, it makes changing cards a pain, I'd also rather have an sd card, for the sake of a little bit bigger unit.
I never considered the IPhone because it has no physical keyboard and it was unable to run GotoMyPC but the difference between the IPhone and the Touch Pro is responsiveness, given it's a more powerful machine it's a damning indictment of windows mobile that it's so sluggish.

I just hope that there's an Android rom released for the Raphael. I'll be getting the ATT Touch Pro (or is it still considered the 'Fuze'?) when it's available as I've been drooling over the TP for a long time now. I'll deal with WM6.1 as long as I have to, but I really like Android, and would switch to it in a heartbeat.

veljko.m said:
two big problems:
1. battery consumption
2. signal reception
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vote 1 from me
Touch flow is nothing to write home about either.
using people favorites and Active Sync hates the photos you asign to them so that becomes a waste of time.

Switched from iPhone?

Anyone switch from an iPhone to a Raphael? If so it would be nice to hear comments on the switch. I'll be waiting for the 11/4 release on AT&T before I possibly pick one up.

having used an iphone and winmo...i'd say it's like going from "good-looking, user-friendliness" to "hardcore, versatility"
the two phones are designed to really handle different things...should compare "pretty" phones like Omnia, Instinct to iPhone

I switched from an Iphone to a Kaiser and then the Touch Pro, honestly the Pro is the best cell phone I have ever owned in every sense.
The Iphone is a nice looking gadget but as a cell phone/convergence device simply can't hold a candle to the Kaiser or the Touch Pro.

I do a lot of browsing and emails. I love "touch" browsing but I need a keyboard for emails. I figure the TP would be perfect. I like the idea of switching but have some questions:
Why did you switch?
What is better/easier on the TP than iPhone?
Is the smaller screen still okay for browsing?
How about screen responsiveness compared to iPhone?
Thanks everyone.

My girlfriend has an iPhone, I think it's great in the fact that you can pick it up and go. You can do anything on an iPhone with a soccer-mom amount of knowledge, but with WinMo it requires quite a bit more. Instead of a few taps to buy an App from the app store, you have to go online and search for programs on your own, then know the difference between an exe that installs from your computer and a cab that installs right on the device, know how to transfer the files, etc. If you're phone stupid but plan on doing a lot with your phone anyways, get an iPhone. If you plan on doing that much and more, tweaking, customizing, but you're willing to put in some hours to get to know what you're dealing with... WinMo's not a bad choice.

veloaudio said:
I do a lot of browsing and emails. I love "touch" browsing but I need a keyboard for emails. I figure the TP would be perfect. I like the idea of switching but have some questions:
Why did you switch?
What is better/easier on the TP than iPhone?
Is the smaller screen still okay for browsing?
How about screen responsiveness compared to iPhone?
Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) I switched because after a while the WOW factor of the UI in the Iphone faded away. The UI is nice, but I want the option of edit some documents and presentations....the Iphone is far behind any winmo device in those aspects.
Besides you really need a true keyboard to type, simple fact.
2) Anything related to typing, sync process, drag and drop files without the pain in the neck of Itunes, camera is better in the TP and there are hundreds o different apps for the phone and not just ten types of unusefull calculators...
3) You'll miss the Iphone screen, that's for sure...but the TP screen is nice and clean...not bad at all.

veloaudio said:
I do a lot of browsing and emails. I love "touch" browsing but I need a keyboard for emails. I figure the TP would be perfect. I like the idea of switching but have some questions:
Why did you switch?
What is better/easier on the TP than iPhone?
Is the smaller screen still okay for browsing?
How about screen responsiveness compared to iPhone?
Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) definitely lost the wow factor considering 2/5 AT&T user hold an iphone now
2) typing on TP would definitely be easier than trying to guess-type on iphone.
3) it's smaller screen, but the res is higher so it's actually supposed to make viewing websites even easier. Not to mention opera is the bomb at the moment (much better than safari). And WinMo is flash compatible (iphone will be able to view flash in the future, but only God knows when that's going to happen)
4) with tweaking i believe tp can be very responsive
All in all, i think you should look for a phone that's best suited for your needs. For me, I'm considering TP b/c some of the softwares I need are only available on Palm or WinMo. If you like touch browsing and write lots of email, ever consider Blackberry storm that's coming out? Haptic feedback should make typing on the screen a lot easier!

Thanks for the comments everyone. I will be going to Best Buy tomorrow to checkout a Diamond to get a comparison of how life with a TP would be.
Anyone else with any comments on the switch?

baboola said:
having used an iphone and winmo...i'd say it's like going from "good-looking, user-friendliness" to "hardcore, versatility"
the two phones are designed to really handle different things...should compare "pretty" phones like Omnia, Instinct to iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Second that, coming from the iPhone @g myself. The worst thing for me, was no navigation on the iPhone, not even a possibility to use it for navigation. Second down for the iPhone is the lack of custmability... No way you can tweak it to exactly what you want.
The screen, and media options however, beet anything else on the market, so does it's simplicity and UI. Touchscreen on the iPhone works superb, but hey, I'm someone who likes to make it mine, an that for me was the biggest reason to ge back to WM....
The Iphone btw, was the reason for me to decide to move from Vista to OSX, and I am happy I did that. Mac just makes things work. Fun with a phone is fine, but my laptop just needs to work. (period) That choice will not be undone

use both
id have to say buying the iPhone one opening day that is has met all expectations and i must say all i own is apple. there are a few upsides and downsides to both
HTC Touch Pro
expandable memory
qwerty
front facing camera
iPhone
web browsing
as stated above simplicity
slim
you can add what you like but i love them both the only thing i really have a problem with the pro is Mac compatibility

joeltje said:
Second that, coming from the iPhone @g myself. The worst thing for me, was no navigation on the iPhone, not even a possibility to use it for navigation. Second down for the iPhone is the lack of custmability... No way you can tweak it to exactly what you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id have to disagree it may be hard to find navigation for the iPhone but there are many programs out there for navigation on the iPhone no matter first or second gen. I would have to say you dont have to do as much work with sftp and unlocking the phone to put the software on. for the Pro all you have to do is DL the software to say a microsd and your off....

Turn by turn navigation, stereo bluetooth, copy and paste, MMS, video recording, I think the scales are tipped in one direction... As for web browsing, Opera seems to have a better display of most web pages than Safari, which every iPhone user adamantly disagrees with me on. Find that French video of the Touch HD, it's funny when they're comparing browsers and the iPhone has meshed text in Safari that you can't even read, and the HD spreads the text out like it would look on your computer. Flash support? Opera: 1, Safari: 0
But yes, the iPhone is simple, and it's slim, although if I prioritized size I'd rather get a Diamond than a Touch Pro. The one thing that I like on the iPhone more than anything else is its capacitive screen, pressure sensitive screens really just can't compare.

veloaudio said:
I do a lot of browsing and emails. I love "touch" browsing but I need a keyboard for emails. I figure the TP would be perfect. I like the idea of switching but have some questions:
Why did you switch?
What is better/easier on the TP than iPhone?
Is the smaller screen still okay for browsing?
How about screen responsiveness compared to iPhone?
Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry i am all over here. i switched because i like i guess many on here have a problem with having to have to most current "hottest" product on the market that do it all with out having to lag around a notebook,netbook, or umpc.
please be more specific in you question about being easier what functions are you talking about??
the small screen is ok for browsing but to lead into your next question the screen touch response in the iphone is much smoother and not as choppy as what I experience with the Touch Pro

Black93300ZX said:
Turn by turn navigation, stereo bluetooth, copy and paste, MMS, video recording, I think the scales are tipped in one direction... As for web browsing, Opera seems to have a better display of most web pages than Safari, which every iPhone user adamantly disagrees with me on. Find that French video of the Touch HD, it's funny when they're comparing browsers and the iPhone has meshed text in Safari that you can't even read, and the HD spreads the text out like it would look on your computer. Flash support? Opera: 1, Safari: 0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey i am an iphone user and i agree with you ... but...but.. most of these can be added through hard work determination and lots and lots of googling

n3rv3 said:
hey i am an iphone user and i agree with you ... but...but.. most of these can be added through hard work determination and lots and lots of googling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stereo bluetooth can't, turn by turn navigation can't, copy and paste can't afaik, and MMS/video record require jailbreaking. iPhone users make the big point that the iPhone is just better out of the box and doesn't need as much customizing as WM phones, then whenever you bring up missing features they say how you can implement them. It doesn't go both ways, there are compromises everywhere.
Let's go back real quick, to the reason you need to jailbreak for MMS/video recording... Because Apple won't let you develop applications that do that, even after you spend $99 on a software development kit. Sounds like a great phone to own, but I think I'll take one with a free SDK where I can put together any program I please.

no i meant to agree with you i must have stated wrong. but yes the winmo sdk is free and the tools required for jailbreak/unlocking/activating/virginizing are also all free if you plan on sitting at you desk all day with text edit open, command prompt, and cyber duck

n3rv3 said:
id have to disagree it may be hard to find navigation for the iPhone but there are many programs out there for navigation on the iPhone no matter first or second gen. I would have to say you dont have to do as much work with sftp and unlocking the phone to put the software on. for the Pro all you have to do is DL the software to say a microsd and your off....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can I find turn by turn navigation, that does not require 3G connection, and what GPS dongle can I use with the iPhone 2G?
My wife now has my old iPhone, but she would love navi as well!
I'm truly anxious what solution you have!

I don't recall there ever being a solution to turn by turn navigation, even with 3G. Maybe I'm wrong though.

the navigation is not turn by turn and works off of cell towers for navigation. i believe that is the software i used for mine.. it was quite slow on my 2g. ill look it up and post the others

n3rv3 said:
the navigation is not turn by turn and works off of cell towers for navigation. i believe that is the software i used for mine.. it was quite slow on my 2g. ill look it up and post the others
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if it's not turn by turn you could just use Google Maps for directions. That's the problem with the iPhone though, you're using a virtual map with a little dot, not a true GPS navigation system.

Fuze/Touch-Pro vs Iphone: What was your deciding factor

Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?

#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone

price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff

Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.

For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods

1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.

Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.

VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.

1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.

International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.

I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.

1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.

Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.

I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.

On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.