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Raphael vs. iPhone 3g

Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?

If you want a keyboard, higher res screen, multitasking, slingplayer, a wireless modem for your laptop, support from xda dev like me, then you have to get the raphael. Otherwise the iphone would be ok i suppose.

My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!

Plus there's no Cut/Copy/Paste functionality and the only Bluetooth profiles it supports are headset and hands-free, so no file transfers or music streaming.
And you'll have to put up with poor 3G reception: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/13/iphone_not_very_3g/

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sort of related to pros...
I had the Diamond for a week and sent it back as the battery life was useless. Also the device heated up a lot when in use. The last straw came when I was trying to use it on the beach and the screen was totally washed out.
I am currently trying out an iPhone, and I must admit it does most all of what I want (phone/email/web) and some more... and the screen is visible in bright sunlight! Just need to get over some missing things - and itunes. Oh, and O2 network (useless 3G - have to switch it off most of the time). Oh, and iplayer works fantastically... thats almost sold me now.
I still have my TyTn2 in case I need a MS6.1 fix, but as things are going, I doubt it.

WatskeBart said:
My personal opinion about the iPhone 3G is that i find it more of a gadget then a real poweruser phone.
I also like the fact that the Raphael has a keyboard and that's a must for myself.
Here's a comparison link from pdadb.net for some spec differences.
I say GO HTC!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with WatskeBart 100%. The iphone has impressive hardware with the exception of the lack of keyboard of course but it can't do all that a normal smartphone can do because of the software on the device. If all u want is a media player and internet browser then u should get an iphone 3g. If you are a phone techie then u will be disappointed all the way. Not to say that the touch pro can't be a media player. As i'm writing this email i'm listening to music on my touch pro and i was watching Hancock like 30 mins ago.

HTC for sure!!
I talk from personal experience as I had an iPhone 3g before selling it to buy my Touch Pro.
I had the original iPhone which i soon chopped in for an N95 8gb as it was too slow for net usage and the lack of apps was rubbish. I then got the upgrade to the 3g iPhone thinking this would be an amazing bit of kit due to 3g, GPS and the new App Store. After a week of owning it I was not impressed at all.
Firstly the 3g, its half speed of the HTC only 3.4 i think as opposed to 7.2mbs and even when it does get a 3g connection it times out constently. Then when the 3g connection drops it fails to switch to Edge or GPRS sometimes which means it will never connect.
The GPS is ok, although running google maps of both the accuracy on the TP is much better I found plus you cant put TomTom on the iPhone at present.
Then there is the app store, what a load of tosh. The apps that are free are free becos, well you wouldn't pay for them and to be honest I found I had a load of apps installed just becos you could not becos you wanted them.
I would say the only thing the iPhone does better is music and games, being an iPod it should be and the games you can buy do run very well although limted due to control system.
Another niggle i had with the iPhone is the new case, it scratches so easy and you always feel you have to treat it with cotten gloves. One day indoor use and i had hairline scratches on the apple logo
I sold my iPhone on ebay for a tidy sum and have had a week with the Touch Pro and am so glad i did it.
Plus if you geta WM you get help and support from all the peps on here, the iPhone community is no where near as good lol

2 things which bother me about iphones are
1. got a free rss program of itunestore for my ipod touch
and without copy paste one have to surf to the rss feed one wants
and write it down on a note open the rss program and write it there
silly that one cant copy paste
2. got a free ebook reader program but only way one can get ebooks is from www url's
no option to get all the ebooks on my computer into the ipod
so it's useless
suspect the lack of freedom with iphones / ipods
both consering accessing data from ones computer and
lack of SD data or even basic filesystem access
are one of their biggests problems

forgot tomtom, and a2dp. use that all the time too.... iphone cant do either.

HTC as the it can access parts of the internet the iphone carn't reach

Touch Pro rocks!
I personnally think the Touch Pro and iPhone are not / should not even in the same category at all:
- 2.8" screen for "pocketability" vs 3.5" screen for comfort
- Full qwerty keyboard vs no keyboard (granted, the on-screen keyboard on the iPhone is even better to use than PCM Keyboard on my VGA 4 inches-screened HX4700, mainly due to the capacitive touchscreen)
- On one side, the nerly endlessly extensible Windows mobile, can do anything, but you can't expect noobs to fiddle with the registry everyday and swap ROMs to have a better-working device
- On the other side, the iPhone platform is less open, but easier to use for nOobs, apps are easy to install, and (where the features are actually implemented) it just works
Surely there are other different points!
I myself just couldn't care to be ensconced in the iPhone, with clearly throttled-down features (no A2DP protocol for BT, no MMS, no video with the camera, no f#$..g copy-paste, for Krishna's sake? How hard can it be?).
My vote goes for the Touch Pro!
My 0.02$...

kmann said:
Ok, so I've been using an HTC for my last 3 phones and now have to decide if I want to go with the Raphael or the iPhone 3g. Anyone here with experience with both care to comment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope that kmann could make his decision based on our replies

plain and simple........copy and paste........nuff said.
the iphone is just a glorified Ipod, the HTC phones are usable computers in your hand and much much more.

I would suggest that you take a look at the iphone thread on the macrumours forum. You get the views of a large number of iphone owners there. To my mind, they fall into 3 categories: On the fence types, fan boy types (for whom the iphone can do no wrong) and a substantial number of people who are having real problems with the iphone - not so much the things that are missing (cut and paste, a2dp etc.) but problems with doing basic phone stufff (like making calls) and build quality issues (cracks appearing in casings, bits falling off/ stopping working etc.).
I am not an iphone hater - I have an Ipod touch with the very latest firmware on - it is a great music player and some of the apps from the apple store are good fun - I have even bought a couple! I have also spent a couple hours playing with the latest iphone (a friends'), as a phone and a serious business tool, it just didn't cut it for me.

Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.

kmann said:
Ok, time to chime on again. Thanks all for your input. I've got 30 years of experience in deep IT technology. I've programmed Operating Systems, hardware etc. I've cooked my own ROMs for the HTC phones. And maybe I'm getting old and tired of fighting the hassles, but you've got to admit the iPhone is sexy, and simple.
Sure I understand the limitations, for example, I use push email and Calendar sync and I realize Apple has yet to fully implement the ActiveSync APIs which causes issues.
So I am in a quandry. Am I tired of fighting the custom ROMs and having the some extra features I rarely use, or do I want sexy and simplicity.
Ah, I guess we live in great times when these are the decisions I have to wrestle with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.

jasjamming said:
i got sexy, simplicity as well as configurability. NOkia E71 (white steel). cant go wrong, 3.5G, BT, WIFI, GPS. all works as it should. IM using Garmint Mobile XT with Australia NT Maps 2009 without any issues, BT works like a charm, music player is fantastic, 8GB microsdhc card is fast.
dont know what else to say, im glad i bought this phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, one of the top chefs of all time goes with the E71 (it is a badass device btw). Are you considering getting a touch pro and cooking for it or are you just chillin in the forums (hope its the former or your part of the elite project).

I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also agree with Eriols arguments. The program starting part can be quick on HTC i think that depends on how your ROM is configured.

Eriol said:
I will go for the Raphael because of this great forum here, but as far as I have compared these two phones in action I must say that at this moment the only advantage of the Raphael is the keyboard, if you really need one:
1. The screen resolution of the iphone is not VGA, but the screen size is bigger (3.5 against 2.8) and this is a big advantage. The screen quality is great and the keyboard is bigger because of the size, so for many people it is not a problem to type.
2. Programs start much faster on iphone. Yes, they do!
3. The OS is much more stable for the moment. Plus, iphone comes with a stable version of a web browser, not with a beta version of Opera (which I like, but still it is beta!).
4. The iphone is really easy to use.
Cheers,
Eriol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that brings it back to what WatskeBart said earlier about the iphone being a gadget not a power house phone. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the iphone i think the hardware is excellent for a second try but there need to be some tweaking. They should open up the software and do like google did for andriod offer 10k for the best iphone progs.

Is it just me?

So before I call up HTC and ask them if I have a fualty device, I thought I'd ask the guys here
I got my Touch Pro around two weeks ago, and after getting annoyed with its screen sensitivity (lack off) and the terrible scrolling method they have implemented, I flashed it to RomeOS 1.21....
The problems:
Even when its in the case, the phone sometimes does random things, and yesterday it called my friend on its own, while I wasn't even touching it (it had been on the table for atleast 10 minutes - granted it was face down, but still?)
Does HTC think this device is for people with small hands?? Clicking the cross at the top right and the two buttons at the bottom of the screen are are chore... It wont recognise my thumb pressing on them, I have to point my nail at them!!
Scrolling through the touch flo interface gets laggy esp. when you scroll slowly past internet related sections... Guess this must be a software based problem though.
Scrolling through the contact list is just ridiculous - When I flick the list (on All People) most the time it goes into overdrive and just keeps scrolling. And when I finally find the contact I want and try to click the name (again thumb press), it assumes I am trying to still search through the contacts and moves to another contact.
Using opera mobile is one of the worst internet experiences I have had... I had heard raving reviews about it, but using it I just find everything to be slow - Zooming is laggy, and again clicking sometimes brings up a context menu, or sometimes takes ages to recognise that I have clicked a link and so I have to click that little icon at the bottom right of the screen to see if anything is loading.
Most my problems seem to be related to the touch experience on the device.
Does anyone have the same issues? If not should I call up HTC?

+1 On most of it
The laggy experice is sad, if you cant make something work 100% why realease it? I have the pro now but have had the diamond without keyboard and trying to write with it took about 3 weeks but still you would type wrong. I took my friends iphone the other day and no lagging wile browsing thru menues or when typing not one misstyping.
And how long has the windows mobile been around? 6 years + ? And still they cant get **** to work. I have tried custom roms but they also have bugs.
And if anyone is gonna complain about my iphone experince stfu. Cause after iphone all windows mobile phones are trying to make their interface look cooler, Xperia, Omnia, Diamond etc. etc.

BarateaU said:
And how long has the windows mobile been around? 6 years + ? And still they cant get **** to work. I have tried custom roms but they also have bugs.
And if anyone is gonna complain about my iphone experince stfu. Cause after iphone all windows mobile phones are trying to make their interface look cooler, Xperia, Omnia, Diamond etc. etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um are you sure about that? I am a iPhone hater, but doesn't mean I won't correct you on how wrong you are. First off. Let me explain some points. the ONLY reason the iPhone is soo popular is because it has a capactive touchscreen, is idiot usable, and is made by apple. If you compare it to the Omnia, it is pretty much very close and I would say the Omnia wins if it has a better resolution. First off, apple tried to base their interface off of previous work. Then winmo companies stepped up and made a better interface. TF3D, Omnia, and Xperia panels ARE NOTHING LIKE the iPhoney crap. Seriously? Do you even see a connection in TF3D and iPhone crap interface? Cause I don't. I don't know where you're going with this one. I could kinda see it with the panels, but then again, you're pushing it when comparing it to the iPhone. I can agree that HTC looked at the iPhone and tried to make a better interface using it as a base, but seriously. TouchFLO 3D looks nothing like the iPhone interface or "whatever the crap interface is that doesn't have a name."

Im not saying that they copyed the entire iphone look. Im saying that after the iphone they all tried making their phones hotter. And that you cant disagree with. And whats with the apple hate in this forum? Are you guys scared of them? Why not take the best out of them. Everytime someone here mentions an iphone its like saying something nasty about your mom.
First off all, apple did it. They have never had a phone on their products list but they made one and its a topseller, for how long has htc been doing phones?

BarateaU said:
Im not saying that they copyed the entire iphone look. Im saying that after the iphone they all tried making their phones hotter. And that you cant disagree with. And whats with the apple hate in this forum? Are you guys scared of them? Why not take the best out of them. Everytime someone here mentions an iphone its like saying something nasty about your mom.
First off all, apple did it. They have never had a phone on their products list but they made one and its a topseller, for how long has htc been doing phones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh. I'm hating on apple for making a great phone, but killing it and not making it as customizable as windows. The average consumers love it, but the tech savvy people hate that. We LIKE complicated things. Yes, I'll agree that after apple made the iPhone, HTC and other companies stepped up. But that happens. Before, they had no reason to step up. Before the iPhone, believe it or not, people barely ever complained about their PPC. They loved it and HTC had no reason to make it better if we were still buying it from them. They are in for the profits. So now, when they see some people diverting from HTC devices to iPhone and other devices, they decide to make their devices better.
Reasons iPhone was top seller:
WAY WAY WAY too much advertising
Very cheap (Reason for 2nd gen. First gen's reason is: see below)
Too over hyped and too over looked.
From apple
Very "user-friendly"
Many mac fanboys bought the iPhone

I-phones are designed to be idiot proof, hence they sell to mostly idiots with money to waste/ burn.
My diamond has a better resolution, its smaller oh & I can do way loads more things with it than an I-phone can do.
It's kind of like the I-pod issue, overated/ expensive crap...
But we all have our own opinions, its just mines is that the i-phones an overated heap of junk
My diamond doesnt phone any1 unless i make it do, maybe u have a faulty device or maybe u have ghosts in your house that like messing with u ?

Kraize92 said:
Eh. I'm hating on apple for making a great phone, but killing it and not making it as customizable as windows. The average consumers love it, but the tech savvy people hate that. We LIKE complicated things. Yes, I'll agree that after apple made the iPhone, HTC and other companies stepped up. But that happens. Before, they had no reason to step up. Before the iPhone, believe it or not, people barely ever complained about their PPC. They loved it and HTC had no reason to make it better if we were still buying it from them. They are in for the profits. So now, when they see some people diverting from HTC devices to iPhone and other devices, they decide to make their devices better.
Reasons iPhone was top seller:
WAY WAY WAY too much advertising
Very cheap (Reason for 2nd gen. First gen's reason is: see below)
Too over hyped and too over looked.
From apple
Very "user-friendly"
Many mac fanboys bought the iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?

""Using opera mobile is one of the worst internet experiences I have had... I had heard raving reviews about it, but using it I just find everything to be slow - Zooming is laggy, and again clicking sometimes brings up a context menu, or sometimes takes ages to recognise that I have clicked a link and so I have to click that little icon at the bottom right of the screen to see if anything is loading.""
I actually love the opera browser on the diamond & i especially love the way it zooms in & out with the wheel, maybe its just cause your not used to it yet or maybe you just have made up your mind already & just hate your diamond pro ? wasnt it ?
either way I think the way opera runs on a diamond rocks, seen a sh*t load of phones. pda's with "so called internet" & the way the diamond runs with opera is the best ive experienced yet. I tried out an I-phones inet use on a m8's & found it a bit limited shall we say, sure the touch is great but the actual ability of it's browser's total crap.
my other 2 cents worth on this arguement here

just my 2 cents here..
i love opera..i find it very easy to use. The only problem i have is that scrolling through the bookmarks is slow (without the scrolling bar)
as about the finger size, i have to say its a matter of getting used to.you have to get used to where exactly you have to touch the screen with your "big" fingers to get it right.
Calling on its own: This is related to the phone unlocking andthen the screen touch does the rest. What you have to do is make sure its locked when not in use. There are many applications that do that. I use sensor lock, others are throttlelock, s2u2, etc
Personally i dont have many issues with the contact list. Then again, you can always type the first letters and it will find them in no time..so no real need to scroll unless you have to.Dont forget you can always use the dpad and the ok button to select (if you cant do it with touch)

Thanks for the replies... I didnt really compare this to the iphone, so not sure why all the iphone talk :S.
I spent the last 20 minutes, repeatedly re-aligning the screen till it recognised my input well, so I guess that issue is fixed.
I then downloaded a contact replacement, so now its kind of better (apart from the fact I have to go to programs to reach contacts) - anyone know how to replace tabs so I can link it to my new contact manager.
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
And as for Iphone being for idiots - I was one of the first to get the Ipod Touch, and whenever my friends would use it for the first time, everything worked fast, and it was easy to use, so your right it was for idiots lool.
My belief of why the Iphone is so popular -
When I first handed my touch pro to my friends, it was dog **** slow, and they got really lost when it went into the dirty winmo interface. Because I paid over £400 for it, I defended it to no end, saying it was the first firmware and it would get better. But this is what seperates the iphone to every other device. When a newbie uses the iphone, it just works and works quickly. So word of mouth of the product is excellent. Even though the HTC touch pro has more under the hood and better features one time users never see it, instead all they see is a slow interface with steep learning curve.

hellios said:
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Be aware of the fact that Skyfire is only partially working on VGA displays -- changing the orientation and possibly some other operations will cause glitches. They've promised a VGA version, but they haven't suggested when that might be available.

hellios said:
Thanks for the replies... I didnt really compare this to the iphone, so not sure why all the iphone talk :S.
I spent the last 20 minutes, repeatedly re-aligning the screen till it recognised my input well, so I guess that issue is fixed.
I then downloaded a contact replacement, so now its kind of better (apart from the fact I have to go to programs to reach contacts) - anyone know how to replace tabs so I can link it to my new contact manager.
I am going to try Skyfire as a replacement to opera mobile...
And as for Iphone being for idiots - I was one of the first to get the Ipod Touch, and whenever my friends would use it for the first time, everything worked fast, and it was easy to use, so your right it was for idiots lool.
My belief of why the Iphone is so popular -
When I first handed my touch pro to my friends, it was dog **** slow, and they got really lost when it went into the dirty winmo interface. Because I paid over £400 for it, I defended it to no end, saying it was the first firmware and it would get better. But this is what seperates the iphone to every other device. When a newbie uses the iphone, it just works and works quickly. So word of mouth of the product is excellent. Even though the HTC touch pro has more under the hood and better features one time users never see it, instead all they see is a slow interface with steep learning curve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to keep the iphone praise/bashing alive but....
I owned WM phones/PPCs for the last 6 years and have loved them. But with any techie I became bored with my Kaiser once all the fun had been lost with rom flashing. It was time to find a new phone to mess around with and flash crap on. I picked up an Iphone just for fun and immediately though "wow, it's fast, intuitive and simply works". I quickly bought a Touch Diamond and started to compare them head to head. the Diamond had a great screen. But it was slow, very slow, even with tweaked roms. I sold the Diamond about 2 weeks into owning it and have not regretted it one bit.
BUT, I do plan on buying a Touch Pro and getting rid of the Iphone. The iphone has its issues like any phone but it has worked almost flawlessly for months now and never slows down like the diamond/kaiser/wizard/hermes/excalibur....that I have owned.
Is the iphone for idiots/sheep? Probably, but for me it was nice to have a phone that simply worked, and worked well. I just miss the big things like mms, cut and paste, OPERA, file explorer, TomTom........ I am willing (I think) to go back to a slower phone for more options.
one last thing, anyone who has actually used an iphone will agree, thier onscreen keyboard is the best in any device I have ever used. WTF was HTC thinking with the Diamond's onscreen keyboards. There almost worthless in comparison. I can type almost as fast with my iphone's onscreen keyboard as I could with my kaisers built in keyboard.
HTC has a long ways to go with the TF3D interface, it is very slow. I like the idea of it but the implementation is just poor. It has been 3 or 4 months now since I last used it so maybe it has gotten better.
Guess I will see when the Touch Pro hits AT&T's shelves later this week(I hope).
Jeff

BarateaU said:
Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look fanboy if you are such a iPhone lover and hate winmo and htc then take your htc back and GTFO. No point in whining that all PPC phones are not just like iPhone. it wont change anything.

BarateaU said:
Im seeing your point. But also your saying that HTC had no reason? What kind of bs is that. So just cause they have something that works they dont need to evolve? Then I say Halleluja iphone, cause the windows mobile looks like crap, if it wasnt for the tf3d i wouldt have spend that much money on this phones. And you cant hate apple for that reason cause then you should hate ericsson, nokia, sagem, samsung, motorola etc etc shouldnt you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idk what you're talking about lawl. The only brands I would ever think about owning and have owned is Samsung, Sony, and HTC. I despise all other brands. So I guess yeah, I do hate all other brands besides these 3. TF3D is fast on my kaiser so I have no idea what some people are talking about it being slow. If you people don't like your diamond/touch pro, just stop whining and move on to the iPhone if you think it's so great. I guarantee you'll miss a lot of features if you've been with WinMo for a long time.

Seriously people... are these faults due to a bad handset? or is it a widespread issue?
As for skyfire... installed it, and I could only see half the app!! Shame - there online demo seemed so good.

hellios said:
As for skyfire... installed it, and I could only see half the app!! Shame - there online demo seemed so good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I'm really going to miss Skyfire until they issue their VGA upgrade (that is, assuming AT&T brings out the Fuze first! -- it seems like the two companies are competing for who can delay the longest!). I use it for nearly all my browsing on my 8525, and I like it a lot.

Look, the iPhone haters can hate on the iPhone all they want but you can't dismiss the fact that Opera Mobile on the Touch Pro is barely acceptable. Mobile Safari beats it i'd have to admit. Like an earlier posted mentioned, it's slow as bollocks...OMG is it slow. Slow to acknowledge any input, slow to refresh/redraw and so on. Granted it's better than Explorer but just barely.
I played with a friend's G1 and the web browser puts Opera Mobile to shame by a long shot. I was jealous. Now i still love my Sprint Touch Pro but gravely disappointed in the web browser, it could be so much better.

LordLugard said:
Look, the iPhone haters can hate on the iPhone all they want but you can't dismiss the fact that Opera Mobile on the Touch Pro is barely acceptable. Mobile Safari beats it i'd have to admit. Like an earlier posted mentioned, it's slow as bollocks...OMG is it slow. Slow to acknowledge any input, slow to refresh/redraw and so on. Granted it's better than Explorer but just barely.
I played with a friend's G1 and the web browser puts Opera Mobile to shame by a long shot. I was jealous. Now i still love my Sprint Touch Pro but gravely disappointed in the web browser, it could be so much better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh. Haven't noticed about Opera. Could care less about opera. I use Netfront and Skyfire But skyfire is out of the race till they develope it for VGA

is the opera complaints here applicable to all users? or is it limited to a few % of lemons out there?
if it's a lemon issue then i'm not too concerned...
and look guys...every product has some flaws and may have lemons here and there...even apple makes lemons - 1% of 2nd gen iphone...10mil translates into 100k...that's aweful lot of lemons don't u think?
we all know why we're here waiting for TP...cuz we're at least somewhat tech savvy....if you're not interested in TP, you might wish to click here

baboola said:
is the opera complaints here applicable to all users? or is it limited to a few % of lemons out there?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it is lol.
baboola said:
if you're not interested in TP, you might wish to click here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lolololol I love that.

PLEASE convince me to not get the iphone

I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?

Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.

My top 3 reasons not to get an iPhone:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
2.no copy and paste (very annoying as I need this for my day to day work)
3.no physical keyboard (Just cant get used to using on-screen keyboards. I like tactile feel of keyboards too much.)
I can list other reasons as to why but these are the main hurdles Apple will have to get over before I would ever consider one.

jblakk said:
Reasons not to get an iPhoney
(in no particular order)
1. No MMS(picture messaging) when they say you can just email it to someone...how do you send a picture to your friend with a Razor? You can't
2.no Copy and paste(really, how did they leave out something so basic!)
3. can not shoot video (unless you jailbreak it, then you risk getting it killswitched)
4. can't listen to audio through bluetooth, so you can't pair a bluetooth headset to it, nor can you stream it to your cool car stereo(think MS sync in fords)
That's the 4 big ones off the top of my head, go read the iPhone bashing thread for more details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but I've never send an MMS anyway, never thought lack of copy and paste was a HUGE deal, not being able shoot video does really suck, and not being able to listen to audio through bluetooth sounds sucky but I've never done it before anyway. Again, what really sucks is that there's no WM app store. Seriously. It's bugging me so much. And as I said, I expect WM7 will have one... but still... that's a year away and I'm impatient...

i have personally owned the new 3g....hated it, let me begin:
battery life sucks:
Why own a 3G iPhone if you have to turn 3G off in order to get a full day out of the battery. And if I even begain to turn the back light up a little then there goes the battery as well. I had one day that I charged teh phone 3 times (full times) to get through the day
you have to pay for apps:
I know you do with a lot of phones, but damn its like if you have an app market there needs to be more free. And almost all of the free one sucks. 1.99 here, 2.99 there add sup QUICK
price of the plan:
they rape everyone with the "iPhone" plan...whatever. I dont even need to say more.
Voicemail get erased:
when you get the "iphone plan" it erases your voicemail and you need to start it all up again. even if you have saved voicemails in it, BYE BYE....and they will not tell you this either
cannot download:
you cannot download ANYTHING on it. I had someone send me a file that I wanted to download onto my phone and run on a school computer that did not have internet hooked up to it. all it was was a .doc file....nope cannot do that
camera:
SUCKS. still in the 1999 era of "slightly better that vga"
acessories are $$$:
all the no name brand stuff is out there is cheap, and breaks easily. but then again a good incase costs almost $50...and then a screen protector is $15 for 2.
cannot copy and paste:
need i say more?
I can go on...

Get a G1, Android Market is sick, has plenty of applications now and it will grow very quickly.

Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.

GazzaK said:
Biggest reason for me not getting a iPhone was the lack of tethering.
(linking the phone to a laptop via say bluetooth so that the computer can use the phones internet connection)
I am a IT support guy and sometimes need to be able to ssh into servers, and tethering a phone is the way I was doing it at the time.
I then bought a HTC Touch Pro, and now do not even need a laptop, as I have pocketputty on the TP, it's great for a quick reboot/restart backup etc.
I'd not want to have to spend too long on the TP though, but it's great for freeing me to not have to lug everything round all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/

Black93300ZX said:
Tethering is coming soon for the iPhone:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/11/06/confirmed-iphone-tethering-plan-making-its-way-to-att/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK

GazzaK said:
Great, but... thats the US, it'll probably take ages to filter down to us in the UK
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So jailbreak it and do it for free. I don't like the iPhone very much, but there are ways around most of its lack of features. Jailbreaking can you get MMS, video recording, tethering...

copy and paste...so on and so forth we hear it all with iphone not up to WM...but iphone runs very smooth video, games, music...its basically an easy everyday use...if u looking for a more advance normal phone, iphone is the way to go...but WM phone like myself i used it for alot more than making calls, theres things WM wish it can do like iphone and like wise...its just how u use it everyday...i have the itouch and a kaiser...itouch basically fun to watch movies and play games and music...but i can do that with WM phone as well...its just iphone u can get to those thing alot faster with a bunch of shortcut than WM phone, yea i can create short cut on WM as well but with iphone/itouch its just seem more suited for entertainment...i connect my WM to everything though from laptop to cars and share file with basically every device but iphone...pros and cons to everything...theres a reason why every new phone that comes out claim they are the iphone killer...70 percent of people that owns WM phones dont even know how to use the damn thing...but the other 30 percent knows wsup. sounds like u already know whats each is capable of so you gonna have to make this decision on ur own

Lol, those that say iPhone is a lot faster should turn off multitasking in WM. I just don't want to hear them guys complain that they can't multitask any more as I don't hear them complain about the lack of multitasking in the iPhone.

Another thing. For those that want an app store, they should search for the Gecko Project on this forum.

Let me tell you why you should get an iPhone and why you shouldn't. If all you do is basic browsing and listen to music on your phone you should get an iPhone. The browsing experience is still, hands down, the best experience...when it works. I get lots of crashes because it doesn't handle flash at all and mishandles java. But it only happens when I'm viewing a memory intensive or java based web page.
I cannot handle the iPhone anymore and will replace it with the Fuze when it releases for one main reason. No multi-tasking and no turn-by-turn. Despite the problems with WM, which they have many, everything "works" when I want it to. I don't have to worry about Opera mini or skyfire crashing because it can't handle basic flash. If a website doesn't completely work on Mini it just doesn't load properly, it doesn't take you 5 minutes to load just to crash to desktop.
The turn-by-turn is an interesting one but let me explain why it's such a big deal. TomTom has had iPhone software ready for months but can't release it because Apple denies anything from entering the app store that is in "competition" with the base iPhone software. That's why Opera isn't developing mini for the iPhone anymore. Apple is so concentrated on blocking people that it breeds an air of exclusivity, which Apple uses as a marketing tool. While Windows isn't exactly a saint in this category at least the users have fully unlocked phones to be used for whatever you want. And Microsoft will never try to stop basic programs (like TomTom) from creating software for their devices.
What Apple has missed is that the more good software that is available, regardless of what it competes against, the more likely people will buy their product.
Additional problems with the iPhone include:
-no copy/paste
-VERY bad battery life, and I've used lots of 3g phones to compare
-No way to completely turn off ALL sounds for apps etc
-have to jailbreak to tether or do any program worth mentioning
-have to use iTunes. I freaking hate iTunes!
-no file browser (unless you jailbreak)
-have to jailbreak to even get access to your file system
-no flash support....period
Now, to be fair I will post what I like about the iPhone:
-music player is VASTLY superior
-sound quality is VASTLY superior
-basic browsing is smooth and truly better
-3.5" screen is very nice
-slim
-finding the software available is easy (see above for negative!)
-3.5mm headphone jack (some WM devices have, not most HTC)
All-in-all, if you are a basic phone user (which most people that spend time on the site aren't) the iPhone is phenomenal. If you like to do anything with your phone beyond what comes standard, avoid it like the plague. Even with jailbroken your options are still pretty much limited.
I suggest getting a windows mobile phone and use it until Android is ported. With Haret you can run to operating systems until you decide which you like better.

I was in the same boat for about the last month and was heavily thinking I'd be buying an iPhone in December when my upgrade is available. I even was playing with a friends and had myself convinced.
Luckily I came to my senses and have decided to get the Fuze when I can. Granted, the touch screen on the iphone is more sensitive...but I've tried using multiple good onscreen touch keyboards on the tilt and the second you get past a few words and want to type quickly you'll be wishing you had a keyboard.
Also, as another user mentioned the app store can add up and there is a reason most apps are free...because they aren't great. For every 1 good app there are a zillion useless novelty apps that are fun for a few minutes but nothing more.
I used to not fall for the sealed battery excuse until recently my 6 month old ipod nano proved to me exactly why I should care. I am not one of the people that carries multiple batteries and needs to switch during the day...but...my ipod nano when you take it off the charger is immediately down 2 pixel width's of battery so it's not even 100% after a full charge. Now what happens when that happens to your phone...you schedule a week of vacation so you can ship it off and not worry about work or actually using it

iPhone is a toy. I had it for 2 months, then gave it to my wife and went back to the tilt. iPhone is a fun device but it is not functional enough.

TaurenSnake said:
1.no multitasking (its like I went back to the Palm OS days)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does have multitasking. what it does not have is a task manager.
why TP and not iphone?
- QWERTY
- WM si more mature, more apps, more tweakable
- copy/paste
- more RAM
- higher res
- HSPDA
- BT is not limited to A2DP
- etc
However iphone has it's own pluses, such as: faster CPU, better GPU AFAIK, dynamic UI, etc

Take a look at the HTC Touch HD (youtube it). Now that is waaaaay better than the iPhone.
If you want a keyboard and a smaller phone (width & height) like me, can't beat the Touch Pro.

johndango said:
I won't lie. It's been hard avoiding getting the iphone. The number one feature I want is an app store full of crap I can impulse buy. I want to be out somewhere, bored, and be able to buy a video game or something. The number two most important feature I want is a good browser.
I've been holding out for the Fuze because I've traditionally always bought WM phones. I'm anxously awaiting WM7 because it potentially has a bunch of features I will be really excited about (ie. I am a Zune Pass subscriber, so I look forward to a Zune MP on WM phones) but I the commercials for the iphone keep teasing me... taunting me... telling me I can waste tons of time on it... I keep thinking I could buy the Iphone for use for the year and by the time WM7 comes out, there'll be all kinds of brand new WM7 ready phones that I could switch to.
I'll be honest with you, besides possibly erasing bloatware, I don't plan on doing a lot of modding or anything like that so that isn't important to me.
I want some honest opinions. Should I stand firm on my resolution to get the Fuze or should I take a dip in the iphone waters?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me personally, the top reason is that it's not on Sprint my preferred carrier.
And then no real GPS app. I can't live without TomTom on my TP, no way, especially now that i've been gifted a car. Been using TomTom on my PDA phones since version 5.
My biggest peeve is the chokehold Apple has on it in terms of 3rd party customization. To me it's stifling. An app only gets in only if they sanction it. So an app like WMWifirouter would never make it into the app store then.
They rejected an app called Podcaster that allowed you to download audio/video podcasts over the air, and the reason given was because it competed with and duplicated the podcast features of iTunes. But it's been now revealed that the real reason is because they are putting in over the air podcast downloads (albeit limited to 10MB or less) in the upcoming 2.2 firmware and do not want any competition.
Read here http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/06/apple-adds-ota-podcast-downloads-to-iphone-firmware-2-2-continu/ .
Just imagine if you couldn't run any other browser but Pocket I.E (no Opera Mobile/mini, Skyfire, Netfront), or any other media player but Windows media player (no pTunes/CorePlayer/Tcpmp), all because they duplicate an already existing functionality in Windows Mobile.
For me, those are too important to give up. Think about it.

If you don't mind the size, maybe you should get a Touch HD, because it has bigger screen, and therefore slightly better browsing experience.
iPhone's resolution is too low for decent browsing IMO.

Convince me back!

I've been relatively happy with my HTC S710/Vox for over a year. The big problem I have with it is speed (CPU and lack of 3G) and lack of memory. Also, with the iPhone, I started missing having a touch screen as well.
So, the Touch Pro sounded like quite the solution to all my problems! More speed, more RAM, high-speed data, and a touch screen GUI that looks beautiful.
But when I finally got my hands on it at a local AT&T store, here were my feelings:
Heavier than my S710
Finger response was quirky
Not as responsive as I thought it would be
Thicker than expected
WinMo Pro/Touch is less intuitive than WinMo Standard/Smartphone
Orientation switch is slower than on my S710!
But it has everything I want hardware wise: high speed connections, GPS, a beautiful QWERTY keyboard, an FM radio, and TF3D.
I actually started looking at the Blackberry Bold and Samsung Epix after playing with the FUZE. All of them have their issues, but I did like the weight of the Bold, and I was surprised how useful the mouse control was on the Epix for one-handed operation! But the Epix is ugly, and the Bold is Blackberry.
So.... here's where I am:
I have been investing my mind in the Touch Pro for months now, and I want to want it. But right now, I feel a bit let down, and I feel like I'll regret spending the money on it because it'll end up being less usable and more bulky than my current S710!
Yes, I know the S740 is a great upgrade for the S710, but it's too $$$ and probably not even US 3G compatible. Also, it's probably too long and square. And there's no way for me to try it out w/o buying it.
The X1 could be an interesting option, but it's not subsidized by any carrier, and $800 is just too steep.
So, help me love the FUZE/Touch Pro again. Please. I don't know what my other options are!
Thanks,
Jon

Flash it with NATF's latest, and it improves a lot.
It's seriously an entirely new device after doing so.
Made me love it even more

Yea, I was VERY upset after I walked out of AT&T w/ my new Fuze. But after flashing ROMeOS and adding some CABs that I wanted, the device is completely different. Fast as hell, very stable, I consider it a very nice upgrade from my Tilt.
However, I really miss the tilt screen feature! I was able to hold that thing perfectly and type very fast but now I can't find a good grip on the Fuze.

I'm not sure if im just lucky, but when it comes to TF3D and screen orientation etc. It is perfect on my device. I get absolutely 0 lag in TF3D, when i change orientation it happens instantly, faster than on my iphone 3g. And my GPS worked 100% perfect with no lag out of the box without downloading telenav. Maybe im just lucky. :-X

joeh4x said:
I'm not sure if im just lucky, but when it comes to TF3D and screen orientation etc. It is perfect on my device. I get absolutely 0 lag in TF3D, when i change orientation it happens instantly, faster than on my iphone 3g. And my GPS worked 100% perfect with no lag out of the box without downloading telenav. Maybe im just lucky. :-X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, how would you compare you FUZE to your iPhone? I'm torn between these as well. I just tried both out again... the iPhone's touch interface seems much more usable and rewarding. The FUZE's touch screen seems finicky.

JonDeutsch said:
So, how would you compare you FUZE to your iPhone? I'm torn between these as well. I just tried both out again... the iPhone's touch interface seems much more usable and rewarding. The FUZE's touch screen seems finicky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had an iPhone, Tilt and Fuze. Of the three, the Fuze is my favorite. The iPhone, like all Apple products, has a clean and easy interface but I didn't like how limited everything was (you can only run apple approved apps, no browser other than Safari, no tethering, etc.) Also, personally, I like TF3D better than the iPhone interface.
And since I use my phone outside a lot, being able to use the touchscreen with gloves on and/or use a stylus was important to me and you can't do that with an iPhone.
All told, it depends on your personal preference. If you like the iPhone interface that much more than TF3D and don't care about application and touchscreen limitiations, you'll probably be happier with the iPhone.

ITNV said:
I've had an iPhone, Tilt and Fuze. Of the three, the Fuze is my favorite. The iPhone, like all Apple products, has a clean and easy interface but I didn't like how limited everything was (you can only run apple approved apps, no browser other than Safari, no tethering, etc.) Also, personally, I like TF3D better than the iPhone interface.
And since I use my phone outside a lot, being able to use the touchscreen with gloves on and/or use a stylus was important to me and you can't do that with an iPhone.
All told, it depends on your personal preference. If you like the iPhone interface that much more than TF3D and don't care about application and touchscreen limitiations, you'll probably be happier with the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I adjusted the touch sensitivity in the registry a couple of times and after that the navigation seemed a lot easier.

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I know you probably dont want to hear this but except for the keybord part, I think that the new Samsung Omnia is for you!
Why do I say that? I tell you why!
First of all I own a Touch pro and I am very happy with it after flashing a new rom and uppgrading the radio! However, the GPS lag is still there even if it is much less then when I first bought the phone!
Secound, video playback is just crap the video stutters and lags whole the time, so unless you dont mind waiting a few hours it takes to convert the video before putting it on your device then that is really an issue!
Third, the battery life sucks on the device! I have tried many different radios/roms but the battery still drains in less then one day! Yes, you could buy an extended battery, but that will add to the device thickness even more!
Now the only reason I am keeping my TP is in case someone comes upp with a solution to all the problems in the future, especialy the GPS lag!
Yesterday I bought the Omnia and now I am very happy!
First no more GPS lag, battery is still at 40% right now after 2 days of pretty heavy use, the video plays beautiful without any lag/stuttering what so ever, The camera is 5 MegaPixels that really shows it´s strenght!
You get 16 GB built in memory and you can add a mini sd to it as well!
The processor is clocked at 624 MHz and it is very fast, indeed the fastest device I had so far, and believe me when I tell you I have had plenty of them!
Granted that it has less Rom/Ram but it makes it up with the incredible speed, so I can bet you wont notice any difference at all!
The only drawbacks with this device I can think of is:
1. No hardware keybord (It is just like the Iphone, even the dimentions are almost exactly the same!)
2. The stylus ( You cant put it in the device, you have to hang it or put it somwhere else!)

JonDeutsch said:
Thanks for the insights. It's great to hear that someone likes the FUZE better than the iPhone.
Here's why I haven't bought an iPhone so far:
I like to stream radio stations
I want an FM radio
I like keeping apps open when using other apps
I like the flexibility WM allows over my user experience
I don't like being locked into a carrier/plan
I want a real keyboard
So, like I said, I want to buy the FUZE, but I'm a bit concerned around how lacking it seems to be in the touch area. I felt like I couldn't easily navigate TF3D, and even Opera was hard to "touch" around. Just didn't feel natural. Maybe it's something I have to get used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget Copy/Paste, MMS, Stereo BT... and many other features that are not on the iPhone or native to the iPhone... yes... I know there are "apps" that could fill in some of the gaps... but still
Just like with all new stuff, you'll have to get used to the 'touching' part on the Fuze. Also, there are apps out there that you can tweak your Fuze to get a better experience. Check out the tweaks thread.

Fuze/Touch-Pro vs Iphone: What was your deciding factor

Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?

#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone

price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff

Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.

For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods

1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.

Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.

VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.

1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.

International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.

I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.

1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.

Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.

I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.

On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.