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E-TEN Information Systems today officially announced the Windows Mobile 5.0 upgrade program for its current E-TEN brand M500 Pocket PC Phone Edition.
And you have got to admit that both device bare many simularities. So what im wondering is if we can get a hold of thier rom and mod it, or even place some
preasure on I-mate / HTC to give us a little x-mas present early for being such good custome and devoted Imate jammers. I think this path of getting WM5
is a little more feasable than waiting for some of the other solution posted on this forum.
Donno what do you guys think?
No, for a number of reasons.
1. The hardware is different between the E-TEN M500 and the HTC Magician. From processor to memory configuration to video display to camera, there's just too many variables that would make it futile compared to attempting to make a build from another HTC device, if that is even feasible.
2. The WM5 upgrade for the E-TEN M500 will be available no earlier than December 2005. I am hoping that someone would have provided a hacked WM5 build for the Magician before then.
I think the second solution is first to try. Please give us the link of the source of ur news, and should one of our members who speak english natively start to suggest a letter pushing of CDL (carrer devices company, the owner of imate) to develop a new wm2005 rom for JAM. After getting the email of CDL CEO (I think it is easy and avaialible somewre in the forum) we start all to send that letter. I think CDL should respons, or all of us will forward to Eten company as it respects its customers rather than CDL.
The site where the new was found is:
http://www.etencorp.com/presscenter/press.php?pid=45&tid=0
whats getting to me is that Eten , a crappy novalty Pocket Pc company has an update compiled form Microsoft, why cant Imate get them to do us one. This is the 3rd time this has happen to me, I mean when I got my first pocket pc (F-S Pocket Loox 600) the support team alienated its customers and lost many of us even though it later PPC releases were of better quality. HP has done this too with the 19xx series and 63xx series. But from what iI heard Imate had regular updates and free firmware. Looks like they going to follow the same path.
I think all of the distributors of this device, CDL, QTek, Orange, T-Mobile et-al should be pressed for a WM5 upgrade for the magician. Also we should press HTC who actually manufacture it.
That way the distributors and mobile operators might apply thier own pressure to HTC as well as ours. If HTC are being pressed from both sides then maybe they will do something.
In the meantime we await buzz's unofficial version.
Theres a way of starting an online petition we did it to Fujitsi-siemens for the loox and suprisingly it work. Took some time but they went back on there word. But we need on of Admins here in forum who have a little more pulling power than me. I have been read about Buzz's cracked version but i havent put too much faith in it, I guess just preparing for the worst I guess. Any one want to take the responsiblity for it???
Best way is to vote with your wallets and dont buy HTC products and switch to Eten. That is the only language corporations understand, money. If they see their customer base switching they will MAYBE think twice.
Why don't we just start to hit their boards to release the magneto for us at [email protected] ? Or else someone has a better way to contact a CEO :lol:
Blueangels, Magicians, Alpine can handle the magneto and even the Himalayas, any suggestions are welcomed..
Damn, ETEN is a crapy ppc and they are releasing the Magneto!!
efjay said:
Best way is to vote with your wallets and dont buy HTC products and switch to Eten. That is the only language corporations understand, money. If they see their customer base switching they will MAYBE think twice.
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the folowing is my history:
Wallabay------> Qtek for one year
Himalaya------> imate (2 different devices as one was stolen) for more than 2 years
Magician-------> Imate Jam Currently for around 6 months
Eten-----------> near future after throwing away CDL products for ever.
I usually don't respect any one does not respect me. CDL is not respecting us, while eten respecting their cutomers, so i think i should switch to eten. From the commercial point of view, i think that it is more benifitial to CDL to release a wm2005 for their old products (not ancient one like wallabay or himallaya) as they will gain the following:
1- they will be respectable from us as this will raise their cutomer support score very much, and will attract new customers as it will be known that the post sale support of CDL is perfect.
2- Their new devices such as JasJar is going will by self pushing power as a new product and will attract the valuable richer customers even old devices such as JAM supports wm2005 or not. In the same time the JAm which is still present in stock with a huge quantitiy start losing attractiveness and its sale curve will decline so much. While there is a large slice of cutomers who cannot afford for JasJar but can afford for JAM but only if supports wm2005 and will go to nokia or sony erricson instead of JasJar, so why not to attract them to Jam by adding wm2005 to it.
3- I am sure that the profit from selling JasJar may be less than Jam as the technology of jasjar is more advanced, so if CDL sells 100 piece of jasjar it will gain for wxample a 10% profit, while if sells 100 piece of Jam it may be 15% profit, especially if we consider that the stock of jam is dead and it is a potential loss and will go to rubbish. So adding wm2005 to jam will revive it and not affecting the sales of jasjar in the same time as it is a new coming product and has its attractiveness.
Finally i hope that CDL, or all HTC affiliated companies rethink regarding this issue and try to continue competeing in this market that of course the winner is the one who respects his customers.
The rumoured xda atom lookslike the magician with WM 2005. Maybe once this device is widely available, someone can hack the ROM.
Greets.
I'm sorry that I'm not with you when you try to boycott HTC.
Eten sold his M500 with the wm5 upgrade clearly advertised. It was a sell point, so, they sold more M500 because ppl were expecting WM5.
HTC did not advertise any of his S1X0 with wm5. If they were to give away wm5, they would advertise at least S110 to be wm5 ready, and it would be a sell point too. They would win money because of the addded value of wm5.
None of us were ripped-off, and, as they keep supporting in a good way our magicians, they are doing their work. They care for us, as they give us rom updates. Not giving us something that is not free, does not turn them bad, or does not mean they don't care about us (well, of course no corp cares for ppl, they care for income! eten does too). Remember, if they give you WM5 for free, they need to support it, and develop some specific things for it. And ppl will keep magician for a longer time, and will not buy theyre new products like the 9100 and so on.
They will in fact loose money. Do you loose money when you work? I surelly don't.
One possible pressure is for us to call our network operators, and start complaining with them. And better, if companys start blaming for not having WM5 for a so much hyped (by operators) product.
Operators themselves are incredibly more powerfull that any of our petition, IMO.
Even that way, I really doubt that we will see WM5 for S100 (it is my opinion, not a rant). Maybe for christmas, with santa giving it to us.
I am looking forward for the new Mitac Mio with gps and wm5. Now thats what I call a all-in-one
I'm waiting for the Mio as well. My only reason for trading the Magician is .... WM5!!
And guess what, my next device after the Mitac Mio would probably be .... another Mitac!!
So yes, HTC will probably lose money in the near future. Keeping your existing customers happy is much easier than getting new ones!
On the other hand, if a WM5 ROM (hacked or not) becomes available before the Mitac launch, I'll stick to the Magician (my preferred option).
rjtd said:
Eten sold his M500 with the wm5 upgrade clearly advertised. It was a sell point, so, they sold more M500 because ppl were expecting WM5.
HTC did not advertise any of his S1X0 with wm5. If they were to give away wm5, they would advertise at least S110 to be wm5 ready, and it would be a sell point too. They would win money because of the addded value of wm5.
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Great point I agree but Imaging how much more love we would have for our babies is the have a face lift. I mean think of sending you girlfriend to get a new set of boobs. You would play with then all day!!
Anyway lets hope they give us the option if its possible, instead of only making it available as a selling point for there next device which is more probable. Even if we have to pay and ammount say $40 for the upgrade it would be great!!
Cheers all
kta said:
I'm waiting for the Mio as well. My only reason for trading the Magician is .... WM5!!
And guess what, my next device after the Mitac Mio would probably be .... another Mitac!!
So yes, HTC will probably lose money in the near future. Keeping your existing customers happy is much easier than getting new ones!
On the other hand, if a WM5 ROM (hacked or not) becomes available before the Mitac launch, I'll stick to the Magician (my preferred option).
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Just to consider from the money point of view, in either way, you stay with Magician or purchase a new Mio, HTC is not going to make new profit. Then the question arises: why do they need to endeavor to make you stay with Magician?
zenkle said:
Just to consider from the money point of view, in either way, you stay with Magician or purchase a new Mio, HTC is not going to make new profit. Then the question arises: why do they need to endeavor to make you stay with Magician?
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No Zenkle, i am not agree with u, if i bought MIO, so, i will try a new handset and a new company with a new style and post sale support, so may i found them better and will stick to them and don't use HTC anymore. But if i have an upgraded magician the next step will be JasJar or whatever HTC. Second, if i bought a MIO now, so i will upgrade after 1-3 years from now as i will have a brand new device, but if I ve an upgraded magician , i will upgrade for JasJar after 6 months to 1 year at max.
That's exactly the point. Keeping your customers loyal to the brand is all part of the business.
In addition to this, HTC or the carriers of this brand, will soon get the reputation of not releasing OS upgrades, while others (Samsung, ETEN, etc.) may be getting a more favourable reputation of releasing OS upgrades for their devices. This would sure help the latter increase their sales.
Trust me, if they do not give us WM5.0 is that because they would, in the end, loose money with it.
I bet they have ppl doing all the calculations for them.
Trust me, no calculations were required. They simply said, "we'll make them buy something new" and that was that.
BeyondtheTech said:
Trust me, no calculations were required. They simply said, "we'll make them buy something new" and that was that.
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And why not say that. Sure, people on this forum may not go back to HTC devices, but there's millions of others that will due to I-mate, O2, Orange and all the others selling these devices. And the profits made from these devices far outweigh the measly profits made from releasing a WM5 rom for the Magician.
My opinion, I want WM5 to play with, and I have no doubt it will eventually come out once someone gets their hands on a decent version (I'm not bringing up the whole other thread to do with buzz and raptorz). But, by the time I feel it's absolutely necessary to upgrade, not just because I want to, there will be some really beefy PDA phones available and my Jam will be obsolete anyway. Hence, a new phone. Maybe an HTC, may not be. Whatever's best for me at the time. And when I do get WM5, I wouldn't mind having official upgrades and support available for it.
Just my 2 cents worth. :lol:
So companies like HP, ETEN, Samsung and others did not do their calculations? Or they don't have new products in the pipeline? All of these companies are releasing an upgrade, and I'm sure they're thinking "customer service" and "returned customers".
Immediate profit vs long term investment in the brand ... look at o2, they're releasing the ATOM, a COPY of the HTC Magician with WM5 in December, I bet HTC will be losing on sales when this comes out. Had the Magician had a WM5 upgrade and being slightly cheaper than the Atom, the Magician would have a longer shelve life thus paying more for its R&D, etc.
I just attended a session with our Corporate wireless providers: Verizon, Cingular and Sprint regarding US devices.
When I specifically asked the question "Will you be providing WM6 updates to existing devices", the answer was pretty much universally "Yes"
Very unexpected! From an HTC standpoint, this covers Wizard, Hermes and Apache handhelds and may be one of the reasons behind why we've been seeing leaked WM6 ROMs for these devices already. Palm enthusiasts should see the 700W series refreshed as well. I'm not in a position to speak Internationally here, but for the US at least, this is very welcome news!
I believe the reason is that WM6 contains significant security enhancements that are pretty much business driven: SD encryption tops the list here. Windows Update is also huge (especially now, given the DST patch issues with corporate IT staffs trying to roll it out to mobile users).
Additionally, WM6 is closer to an AKU refresh than it is to a whole new OS. Crossbow resembles AKU3.x in many respects.
Bottom line: It doesn't appear that the "Buy a new device to get WM6" mentality is going to play out with WM6. From a device pipeline perspective, there's reasons for this too. Lot's of cool new stuff is coming. That, not the promise of a fixed or patched OS, should always be the device upgrade enticement IMO.
What about Uni?
Edit: Nevermind. Forgot that no carrier has Uni in the US.
this is great news. it does contradict a lot of other view's i've read.
some ass burglar on howardforums.com told me (very nastily too) that the wizard support will be at end of life in a couple of months. hence, no wm6 official rom update from carriers.
rebuttal, anyone?
hiimcliff said:
this is great news. it does contradict a lot of other view's i've read.
some ass burglar on howardforums.com told me (very nastily too) that the wizard support will be at end of life in a couple of months. hence, no wm6 official rom update from carriers.
rebuttal, anyone?
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I can't see that happening. I bought my Cingular 8125 when they first rolled out with my local Cingular store in February, 2006 and had to sign a 2-year agreement. They'd BETTER support it for the full 2 years of my contract, or I'll be going elsewhere. Doesn't matter to me, though. It's already unlocked, so I can use it on ANY carrier's network.
Would just be a "bust" for Cingular, though -- with all the business I've sent their way after being a satisfied customer for 8 years. I can always send people somewhere else, too.
The 8125 isn't on Cingular's EOL list. The 2125 is however....
Sleuth255 said:
The 8125 isn't on Cingular's EOL list. The 2125 is however....
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Doesn't matter. . . I'm already running Crossbow. I figured "why wait for Cingular??" I didn't want all that JUNK in their Extended ROM, anyway.
Hey sleuth, If the 8125 isn't there on cingular's list, do u know if its there on T-mobile list (for the MDA?), we can always take a little "help" from t-mobile ROMs to update the other lesser priviledged wizard variants...
Sorry, I've not heard anything about TMo devices.
Well, with pressure from other telco company, i'm pretty sure tmob will need to do something about it. The question is now then.. WHEN
Glad to here that the carriers will be giving this update.....its about time.
in my country, o2 zinc was just released with wm5... and i was just thinking that this is a sign that wm6 wouldn't be available for my dopod 838pro...
this is truely good news indeed... infact it's better then windows vista which is crap now that i've tested it...
hanmin said:
Well, with pressure from other telco company, i'm pretty sure tmob will need to do something about it. The question is now then.. WHEN
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Good question, that.
A few months ago (after I got my V2... around September last year), I was speaking to a TM tech support guy as he was setting up my HSDPA (managed to get it sorted before they got all arsey about non-corp customers ringing up and asking for it ). I asked him about any possible roadmap for Crossbow for the Hermes and other capable devices, and he said that they had absolutely no plans for at least the next 12 to 18 months regarding WM6 rollout or availability for their existing supported devices.
Of course, I hope this changes given the US carriers saying yes (from what I've read above), but I can't imagine TM will jump on it quicksharp. I'd expect O2 to offer it first out of anyone.
I would assume, then, that those of us running HTC unbranded/unlocked products will eventually get them. My TyTN is just a month old and I borderline hate it (running the original 7/06 ROM- I'm too much of a coward to hack an updated ROM into it)
But I'm in Chicago enjoying 3G love (on a $25 unlimited legacy blue plan) and it's like heroin: there's no way I could go back my to my Treo 650. So this will keep my hopes alive for the time being.
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
ChildOTK said:
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
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The issue is highly debatable. OS for Mobile devices come preinstalled and can not purchased separately for upgrading. this is quite unlike the OS for desktops where you can readily buy a new OS or upgrade an existing one. Your new device comes pre installed with an operating system so you have initially paid for it. therefore it is safe to say that only in case of mobile devices 100% buyers have paid for their OS. This is not so with desktops. Now comes the tricky bit. Do you have the legal right to upgrade? Since M$ does not sell an upgraded OS for such devices, they are infact not incurring any loss of revenue if a user is upgrading. If he can not upgrade it is wrong to suppose that he will rush out to buy a new one. However it appears that it is the cell cos who are behind M$ move. When people who upgrade seek tech assistance it does creat problems.... they do not have the expertise to handle these issues neither are they interested in upgrading the devices themselves!
Ok, I just don't want some MS agent to some and fine me for some rediculous reason or another....
Thanks.
There are rumours that M$ will be selling WM6 as an upgrade... which would give a reason as to why they waited til now to ask us to take down our ftp.
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Hmmm... v interesting article, thanks
Ya, the worst they do, only if your hosting the files, is send an email. (trust me, I know) They will not hunt you down!
hahahaha, trust you. Remember theirs always a first time. hehehe
f??k em
this what i think of ms... hehehe
Our devices come with a licence for "Windows Mobile".
WM6 clearly comes within this
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Only with couple of OEMs. I checked with Imate but they have no intention of providing upgrades. Thats it.
I paid my Qtek 9000 about 1.000 Euro,and I think that it is my decision what I want to do with it...maybe install Symbian on it..? I think that nothing is gonna happend so far as WM6 stays "open source"..Difference about upgrade and new Jwrightmcps platform is evident...I downloaded Jwrightmcps WM6 from here and it is totally new platform..with some bugs which will be solved,but beautiful and rich functional,..If they in Mics...attempt to make update that would be just carefull minor upgrade of WM5...isnt it? Any problem what potentionally could be is about using their name so I suggest to rename new platform in something different...XDA 1 perhaps...
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
tin2404 said:
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
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Try mortplayer. Its good. Google it and you will get it.
The Symbian cellphones seem to be so legal that you can never upgrade them to the new OS version or modify the ROM.
But M$ knows how to deal with the market.M$ disregards whether WM6 upgrating is legal or not.So more people will buy WM phones instead of buying Symbian ones.
Almost 90% of computers in China are running illegal Windows because of the M$'s neglect of them.No computers are running Windows in developing countries will be a real disaster to M$.
symbian & UIQ does not have a ROM...it is completly based on JAVA platform....and...yes....there is a plenty of programs ( .sis) for upgrading platform.but it is not an issue here...the issue is that should we be concerned about MS policy to prossecute everything and everybody..we can see,Universal 6 and Linux platforms grows day by day...and differences becomes bigger and bigger...Developers here are running "light years" infront of MS and they in MS will "fight back"...Linux is not a problem...Problem is (or will be) "Windows Media Player"..."Outlook"..."Internet Explorer"...etc.etc...because these names are licenced by them and they WILL focus on that fact...and China is special case...it is potentional industrial giant and it is the biggest future market so it is normal that if you want success on that vast market you will "blink on one eye"...(Yahoo and Google did that as we saw in near past when they agree to give Chinese goverment all data which they collect..remember...internet is not free in China(!))..but this is out of this topic..I think developers here should first do renaming applications and further developing them independetly..Indeed,technology and behavour is similar to all specific applications and there is no any philosophy (for example : IE and Firefox are similar browsers for one purpose and based on one technology,and differences are "slight" , but because of that,MS does not have right for any complain...)...I think here we should go that way...
I'm new to the whole Windows Mobile world, and I was about to make my first pocket pc phone with the TyTN, but from the news I'm reading it seems the phone replacing it will be out soon. I've decided to wait it out for the Kaiser, at least that way I won't have to go through the problem or risks involved with flashing a WM6 ROM to it, and I would have GPS built in.
I was wondering if anyone heard or know of the firm release date of the unit and the street price? Any help on this is greatly appreciated, thanks
I heard release may be around late june & price for sim free is expected to be around £400.
Looks like a nice device but not sure how keen I would be on having WM6 this early in its release, If you go with a WM5 OS all your problems are already writen & resolved within forum threads, as a first step into the PPC world you may have a better experience with WM5.
Regards, Mister B
I've heard of a late Q3 or early Q4, 2007 release to Cingular for them to carry the Kaiser, but haven't heard anything about price yet.
As far as the newly released WM6, several apps I'm already using on my Wizard have already been upgraded to be compatible with WM6 -- which I'm also currently running on my phone.
But -- again -- it's M$ Windoze we're dealing with here, so anything can happen. . .
I appreciate the replies and the advice guys. I don't mind waiting till June, but Q4 might be too long to wait. I guess I could reconsider getting a TyTN, I just hate having to spend money on a whole new phone in six months time when the Kaiser comes out. Even if the TyTN works and serves its purpose, I'm gonna have a want for the Kaiser, and if I would have just waited it would have just been a one time expense. Oh well, it's an issue that I have to deal with. Thanks again guys.
It is intruiging that Microsoft does not offer their mobile OS for sale. Today's flashing possibilities would make it perfectly possible to provide upgrades to WM, even if users had to pay for them. Ok, you always have the specific hardware driver issues but there could be solutions to that, if the possibilty to upgrade would exist at all ...
Imagine Microsoft were releasing payable upgrades to a higher OS version (e.g. WM 6.5) of their mobile OS, would you go for it or would you rather buy a new phone ? How much would you be ready to pay ? Do you think that OEMs would embrace such an approach ?
Firstly all the phones are very sensative to changes, that is why you cannot install a rom designed for a different phone. MS would have to create a different update for every different phone, this is also evident with the windows update app build into windows. MS doesn't post updates because all the manufatures build the hardware and use the software in differnent ways.
Secondly why would you want to pay for an update when you can get an even better cooked rom for free?
tvrtim said:
...
Secondly why would you want to pay for an update when you can get an even better cooked rom for free?
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Because if MS did start selling the O/S in a box like normal Windows, they would then be much stricter on sites like this as they would be protecting revenue. You would have only purchased windows 3.1 and not the upgrade to Win 2000 so you would not have a legal license to use Win 2000 - bye bye cooked roms!
Like you say though, I doubt very much we will be able to buy Windows mobile 7 from our local shop, too much bloat would be needed (imagine all the diferent drivers!) to make it multi-phone capable out of the box. This would all eat our valuable RAM very quickly!
As to the question though, I might pay but that would depend on price and features..... its a very open question.
I would if it was a real upgrade
imho then wm have not really got a real upgrade since wm5
wm6 wm6.1 wm6.5 are more in the bug-fixes and skins category as I see it