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Mike Calligaro_MSFT (Expert):
Q: The i-mate JAM/HTC Magician community is abuzz with a possible build of WM5 for them. While I understand it's not up to Microsoft, can you at least confirm the existence of WM5 running on that device? It's rumored impossible due to 64MB ROM limitation.
A: We can NOT confirm the existance of a WM5 build for that device. However, I can say that 64M ROM meets the requirements for WM5. The device is likely CAPABLE of being upgraded. But the majority of devices are not upgraded, so you shouldn't expect it will happen.
Some of our other questions answered here:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=715582
So that kills the lie that device manufacturers and operatiors have been spreading that 64Mb is not sufficient to run WM5. This is no surprise but just emphasises the point that these companies have NO interest in their customers and only want to get as much as they can out of us while ignoring our concerns or issues. Well done HTC and co.
I too have a S100 and I too want to have WM5.0.
But, remember, they are a company. They are supposed to earn money. Do you work for free? They surelly don't.
You get what you pay for, a phone with WM2003SE, just like when you buy a laptop it will came with WindowsXP and they will not give you windows vista for free.
And you must also take in account that porting drivers to WM5.0 is time/man power consuming. It is better for them to make a new product and stick WM5 to it. If you want WM5 you buy the new model.
Of course, if they have a new magician with WM5.0, I think they could upgrade the older ones, because they would nnot have a cost associated with R&D just for older models. But even in that situation, I suppose Microsoft cashs a license for every copy of WM5 shipped on a phone, so, HTC would have to pay Microsoft for every copy of upgraded WM5.0 they gave.
WM5.0 just for us, well... forget about it. It would require driver development and testing. And they then need to support two operating systems, because people would start to ***** if their device fails with WM5.
HTC would be a great company if they provide us WM5. If they don't, well, I don't think they don't care about customers. They are just a normal company, not an outstanding one. That's all.
PS: i'm not related with HTC in any way. this is just my way of understanding corporate business.
I don't know what the fuss is all about but what so good about this Magneto? I mean everyone is feeling they've lost out but I think the 2003SE version works great. Making the most of what we have through self hacking and innovation is what this forum stands for... this is what made this forum so great...
WM2003SE IS a great OS. Just like Windows 98SE (except the occasional crashes). But we still have moved on to the newer technology of XP, right? With each new step up in OS, new possibilities are unveiled. Either you run the latest OS and get the option to run the latest programs taking advantage of that, or you don't. It's as simple as that.
I don't think anyone expects HTC to make WM5 run on the Magician, and then give it to us for free. They are here to make money. We all know that, considering how much most of us paid for the Magician. But why is the only option to buy new HARDWARE? If your P4 runs Windows XP just fine, will you find it ok to have to buy a new PC, just to be able to run Vista? Of course not.
We need more companies to take care of their current users base, by providing OS upgrades that you pay for! I don't know how much developement is needed to make all the drivers and so on, but personally I would be happy to pay $100 for WM5, since the hardware part of the Magician suits me quite nice for the moment. Then, in 6-12 months or so, when a fast, small qwerty equipped VGA PDA with built in wifi and GPS is made available, I will replace my device. But that is because I want better HARDware, not better SOFTware. Huge difference!
efjay said:
So that kills the lie that device manufacturers and operatiors have been spreading that 64Mb is not sufficient to run WM5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not necessarily a lie.
I remember when we upgraded the IPAQ 3800 to the WM2003 back then which was supposed to "need" more ROM than the IPAQs had.
Some WM components like Media Player or Terminal Services Client were not in the ROM, but on the CD as installable programs, so only the core OS was in ROM.
I figure that this is the case here too.
The WM5 core OS+apps might be installable in 64MB (some apps probably to install afterwards), but the complete feature set of WM5 might need 128MB.
HP will offer upgrades to WM5 for the IPAQ hx2000 series which has 64MB ROM and later for the hx4700 which already has 128MB.
So it was clear to me that 64MB ROM is not the reason for NOT upgrading a device.
The use of components that will get no WM5 driver might be a reason, for instance old Bluetooth or video chips or memory controller or whatever.....but the Magician is not old enough to have such "outdated" components I guess...
So this leads to the simple realization that HTC will not provide a Magician upgrade simply for marketing reasons - they want to sell their Wizard and Universal now....
And if the manifacturer does not support WM5, I doubt that OEMs like T-Mobile, O2, Vodafone, or even QTek will bother.
After all they want to sell the same new HTC devices....
I happen to work in a similar field.
This is probably a case of 98% marketing decision with 2% technical reasoning.
As you might recall - companies are alive to make their shareholders happy - and one of the greatest and most proven ways of getting your shareholders smiling is to sell a lot and make a huge profit. There is of course more to it like ... public brand awareness, customer satisfaction, environmental and social responsibility and other BS but... making huge profits that either flow to the SH as dividends or raises the price of the stock in the case of a publicly traded company is the 100% proven way to make the guys happy.
Now... guess how you make a big profit? you sell many many devices ... and this you achieve by diversifying your product line. This is really tough in a comodity market (cellphones are a comodity these days) - so you do your best and if WM5 is a big deal feature - why not make new devices that are marginally improved but one major improvement is WM5? I guess that's the force-majore behind most of these decisions. Nobody is trying to screw anybody - and I happen to have a Magician too so I too really want WM5 - but on the other hand such is life and such is the way that most businesses are operated. I guess we shouldn't expect too much.
Cheers, Lisa
I fully agree that providing an upgrade to WM5 is up to the manufacturers/operators. The point i was trying to make was the amount of rom on the Magician was given as an excuse as to why it would not be given an upgrade. With the reply from the Microsoft live chat and also the announcement by HP that they will be producing the rx1950/1955 which only have 64MB rom we know this to be untrue. HTC, Imate and other operators have every right to decide that it is uneconomical to produce an upgrade for their older devices, (even though HP and Dell obviously think otherwise and are offering upgrades on some of their devices); I just dont see why they didnt just say so instead of trying to fool people.
WM2003SE is an ok os but some of the improvements in WM5 such as persistent storage, better battery life, better bluetooth and supposedly a more stable OS are features that would be welcome on our devices. No one can deny the current devices have serious problems with bluetooth, stability and of course battery life. Improvements in these areas would be welcomed and if there is a charge for the upgrade that is acceptable; no one is saying that they should just give it away. I actually have a Blue Angel device and im sure BA owners could tell you of their problems with bluetooth and wifi. Im pretty happy with my device apart from the occasional lockup but i would welcome an upgrade to WM5 rather than having to cough up and buy a new device. The current crop of WM5 devices are pretty underwhelming for me - the Uni is too big and wont be easy to use one-handed; the Wizard uses miniSD. So I wouldnt be buying a new device now anyway. Im just tired of companies just placing profit above all else, thats all
Don't get me wrong efjay - I agree with you and I would be extremely happy if I can get my magician running wm5.
Anyway, it's now a waiting game and I guess we will find out if HTCs business model includes WM5 for the MA or the BA.
One more thing to consider is that these companies work on a project basis - which means that they allocate the best and the finest engineers for project X (i.e. - Blueangel or Magician) - once the project is over - then only a few engineers are left with the crap job of supporting the "older projects" and the best engineers are allocated to newer models - so if you take into consideration that HTC has let's say two current "new" models (universal, wizard) which I am pretty sure that by now the good engineers are no longer allocated for - instead they are probably allocated to the two next gen devices which must be in the pipeline if the company has the will to survive... so frankly thinking about it - the Blueangel and the Magician are "older generation" devices that are in a status of "they are working so don't touch..." - i.e. - no chance on earth that they plan to venture into anything major with these devices apart from necessary evil - like repairing super critical show stopping bugs or faults...
Sorry to paint such a dark picture - but this is corporate life. But... still one should always hope...
True as it may sound, I'm still happy how things are going for me ofcourse there will a hundred more things I' like. Sometimes I wish HTC were as organized as Palm. But then again...
lisa1982, thats a very interesting insight into corporate operations. I wont hold my breath but will welcome it if it does.
HBK said:
WM2003SE IS a great OS. Just like Windows 98SE (except the occasional crashes). But we still have moved on to the newer technology of XP, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but I bet youre not using the same PC you had in 1998.
Personally I'd rather have a device that comfortably runs WM2003SE than one that struggles to run WM2005.
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
ChildOTK said:
Hi there,
I just want to find out really, if it is legal by running WM6 on my device? I mean it is a WM5 device afterall, and much like with a PC you'd have to purchase a licence for new software, does the same principle apply with these devices and WM6?
I have heard that apparently one can buy WM6, is this true? If so, where from?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is highly debatable. OS for Mobile devices come preinstalled and can not purchased separately for upgrading. this is quite unlike the OS for desktops where you can readily buy a new OS or upgrade an existing one. Your new device comes pre installed with an operating system so you have initially paid for it. therefore it is safe to say that only in case of mobile devices 100% buyers have paid for their OS. This is not so with desktops. Now comes the tricky bit. Do you have the legal right to upgrade? Since M$ does not sell an upgraded OS for such devices, they are infact not incurring any loss of revenue if a user is upgrading. If he can not upgrade it is wrong to suppose that he will rush out to buy a new one. However it appears that it is the cell cos who are behind M$ move. When people who upgrade seek tech assistance it does creat problems.... they do not have the expertise to handle these issues neither are they interested in upgrading the devices themselves!
Ok, I just don't want some MS agent to some and fine me for some rediculous reason or another....
Thanks.
There are rumours that M$ will be selling WM6 as an upgrade... which would give a reason as to why they waited til now to ask us to take down our ftp.
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... v interesting article, thanks
Ya, the worst they do, only if your hosting the files, is send an email. (trust me, I know) They will not hunt you down!
hahahaha, trust you. Remember theirs always a first time. hehehe
f??k em
this what i think of ms... hehehe
Our devices come with a licence for "Windows Mobile".
WM6 clearly comes within this
hanmin said:
Well, as said here
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/27/windows-mobile-6-free-to-pda-manufacturers-issuing-upgrades/
MS is giving manufacturers free license for the upgrades, which may or may not means we get a free license?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only with couple of OEMs. I checked with Imate but they have no intention of providing upgrades. Thats it.
I paid my Qtek 9000 about 1.000 Euro,and I think that it is my decision what I want to do with it...maybe install Symbian on it..? I think that nothing is gonna happend so far as WM6 stays "open source"..Difference about upgrade and new Jwrightmcps platform is evident...I downloaded Jwrightmcps WM6 from here and it is totally new platform..with some bugs which will be solved,but beautiful and rich functional,..If they in Mics...attempt to make update that would be just carefull minor upgrade of WM5...isnt it? Any problem what potentionally could be is about using their name so I suggest to rename new platform in something different...XDA 1 perhaps...
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
tin2404 said:
oh...and I forgot...looking from point of view from legal aspects I am wondering is there any possibillity to remove WM player (and replace other mic...stuff) because it is not worth it to be in state of the art Jwrightmcps Universal 6 platform...I think there is a lot of open source solutions and so "they in mic.." really would not have any reason to complain...This WM player is simply..."unfinished" as everything from them is..we still have BetaPlayer ..or something like that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try mortplayer. Its good. Google it and you will get it.
The Symbian cellphones seem to be so legal that you can never upgrade them to the new OS version or modify the ROM.
But M$ knows how to deal with the market.M$ disregards whether WM6 upgrating is legal or not.So more people will buy WM phones instead of buying Symbian ones.
Almost 90% of computers in China are running illegal Windows because of the M$'s neglect of them.No computers are running Windows in developing countries will be a real disaster to M$.
symbian & UIQ does not have a ROM...it is completly based on JAVA platform....and...yes....there is a plenty of programs ( .sis) for upgrading platform.but it is not an issue here...the issue is that should we be concerned about MS policy to prossecute everything and everybody..we can see,Universal 6 and Linux platforms grows day by day...and differences becomes bigger and bigger...Developers here are running "light years" infront of MS and they in MS will "fight back"...Linux is not a problem...Problem is (or will be) "Windows Media Player"..."Outlook"..."Internet Explorer"...etc.etc...because these names are licenced by them and they WILL focus on that fact...and China is special case...it is potentional industrial giant and it is the biggest future market so it is normal that if you want success on that vast market you will "blink on one eye"...(Yahoo and Google did that as we saw in near past when they agree to give Chinese goverment all data which they collect..remember...internet is not free in China(!))..but this is out of this topic..I think developers here should first do renaming applications and further developing them independetly..Indeed,technology and behavour is similar to all specific applications and there is no any philosophy (for example : IE and Firefox are similar browsers for one purpose and based on one technology,and differences are "slight" , but because of that,MS does not have right for any complain...)...I think here we should go that way...
Anyone else seen this?
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/8638.html
Or any other sites with similar comments?
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/6935.html
here is one with the opposite pretty much
Yes it is true
Yes it is true microsoft is gona give an update to all windows mobile devices with version 6.0.
SRC = http://life.tweakers.net/nieuws/50629/microsoft-geeft-preview-van-update-voor-windows-mobile.html DUTCH NEWS
It's still up to the manufacturer to provide it for the consumers.
The manufacturer will still need to customize it for each model which takes time and money, so it's still questionable which models would get it.
from what I know..it will b WM 6.1 free upgrade to tilt, so of course our expert chefs can make for other devices too
So I'm contemplating a new smartphone and I like many of the things about the TouchPro 2. But my biggest fear is that WM 6.5 is on the door step of being obsolete. With the announcement of Windows Phone 7, apps and updates for 6.5 still going to be out there? I expect that I'll use my phone for the next 2 years or so... I'd hate to keep seeing new and exciting stuff come around for the iPhone, Android, and WP7, with nothing new for the 6.5.
Am I right to be worried?
Your concern is fair. I have a TP2 and a HD2. The good news is there is a large number of software options out there for 6.5. Microsoft says that 6.5 is not being replaced by 7 but that does not mean developers are going to continue to create applications.
WM 6.5 is still supported for next 2-3 years so if you're going to buy a new phone in 2 years you are still fine with WM in my opinion. I just bought my wife a Touch2 few days ago.
For the record the new sdkcerts from Microsoft (with were expired in Dez 09 and re-newed in Jan 10) are valid until 2015. So I guess after 2015 development for WM is no longer possible.
I agree with your concern. I've used WM since 5.0 and have carried most applications from one OS to the next, some with upgrades from the developer. I hate to think that when I do finally have to move to android or WM7 or whatever is out there then that I will have to reinvest in what has become for me a new basic set of apps.
alanrichey said:
I agree with your concern. I've used WM since 5.0 and have carried most applications from one OS to the next, some with upgrades from the developer. I hate to think that when I do finally have to move to android or WM7 or whatever is out there then that I will have to reinvest in what has become for me a new basic set of apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the same feelings.
RAMMANN said:
For the record the new sdkcerts from Microsoft (with were expired in Dez 09 and re-newed in Jan 10) are valid until 2015. So I guess after 2015 development for WM is no longer possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this really true? Is it impossible to renew the certificates, or develop applications after they have expired? Is the phone unusable after 2015? I am playing with the same thought to buy a Windows Mobile 6.5 device in near future, but if the phone locks after the certs expire, I have to think about better buying a Android Smartphone?! I don't really think that I will use my phone the next 4 years, but maybe if there are no good phones in future...
I think Windows Mobile is one of the most versatile OS on the market, because it is possible to run Android parallel from SD card. Only iOS is possible to do nearly the same. The next advantage is the huge know-how for such an old and durable system. Currently I'm using a XPERIA X1 and I never had the feeling that this OS (WM 6.1) is outdated. It is still timeless and functional. The usability is debatable, because you have a huge range of customization, user interfaces and a lot of free applications... The best thing is, that you can manage lot of things by modyfing the registry. With some tweaks I got my X1 to a very good performance. I would like to use it as second/spare phone in future
Hopefully anyone can answer my questions...
Best Regards
zyclop
P.S.: I don't want to buy an iPhone or a Windows 7 Phone, because WP7 has too many things missing and I would like to wait for a few updates and improvements first (maybe one or two years). iOS has too many restrictions for my requirement and iPhones are still too expensive.
Sadly enough, Windows Mobile is now a dead platform. No support from the new WP7 Marketplace thus no developers on board.
Plus no Angry Birds makes this platform virtually gone now.
qipengart said:
Sadly enough, Windows Mobile is now a dead platform. No support from the new WP7 Marketplace thus no developers on board.
Plus no Angry Birds makes this platform virtually gone now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that there are shed loads of other places to get apps from.
Compared with other app sites, MS Marketplace hardly has any apps for WM6.
The truth of the matter is that the phones won't suddenly stop working, WM has been renamed Windows Mobile Classic, there are plenty of sites providing apps for it, and no one knows how long this will continue.
But no new devices
Maybe someone can confirm this, but I suspect that Microsoft is no longer selling licenses to WM 6.5.x, or any version except WM7. So it is impossible for manufacturers to build any more WM 6.x devices - they can't get the OS license.
stevedebi said:
Maybe someone can confirm this, but I suspect that Microsoft is no longer selling licenses to WM 6.5.x, or any version except WM7. So it is impossible for manufacturers to build any more WM 6.x devices - they can't get the OS license.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy necro-posting Batman.
just use android
efeguwewe said:
just use android
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Click to collapse
It's not yet good enough.
Hi,
I have been increasingly concerned over future development (if any) of Windows Mobile. Having bought my TG01 only in February with the joy of believing that windows mobile would expand to windows mobile 7, I am now very disappointed to discover that this won't happen. Here are some article snippets I have seen in the news highlights:
"TG01 won't get windows mobile 7 upgrade"
Original Source: Can't seem to find it again on google, but have seen it on google within last few days.
and
"Adobe kills Flash Player 10.1 for Windows Mobile 6.5, smitten with Windows Phone 7 Series"
"If you’re not feeling a bit sorry for the aging Windows Mobile platform, you should be. With Windows Phone 7 completely overshadowing Windows Mobile 6.5 and Adobe confirming the death of Flash 10.1 for WinMo, the stylus-happy smartphone operating system of yester-year is being kicked to the curb left and right."
Original Source:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/02/2...-6-5-smitten-with-windows-phone-7-series.html
Just wondered what other WM users think? Personally, I'm tempted to sell my TG01 fast before it's too late, but can't help but wonder if I'm making the right decision, and wouldn't know what to replace it with.
I keep reading negative headlines for windows mobile, and I think it won't be long before most phone manufacturers choose Android as their OS, therefore making windows mobile redundant. I suppose windows mobile has been around for some time now, so perhaps I shouldnt have bought a phone with a OS that is heading for 'death'.
Wrong section for this thread... But...
Many WinMo devices in the past never received official updates... My phone is from 2008 and didn't even receive a 6.5 update...
If you ask me Microsoft is going in the wrong direction. . They abandoning everything that made the platform great to focus on interface and dumb down the OS (I hate how they are iPhoning the system). In a nutshell it's the PocketPC deevolved from a tiny computer into a mere feature phone... They have already lost a great deal of 3rd party developer (professional and amateurs... most freeware devs and hackers got off the wagon)... The lack of quality freeware and OSS content is what will utterly drive me and many others to Android.
Samsung has released Bada... HTC doesn't seem pleased with the UI modifications constraints and has an ever increasing number of Android devices... Regardless of my opinion about them they are the current two biggest WinMo phones producers. If these two companies drop the platform it's as good as dead.
The signs of death are way older than this (just look at the state of many OSS projects and emulation... also the smaller number of commercial apps and quality games... even some bogus apps iPhone clones that users currently request here). Adobe is just throwing a tantrum (but considering Microsoft is pushing Sirlverlight, Apple is developing Gianduia and the eminence of HTML5... I don't know if they can afford the price) very much like Mozilla did when they cancelled Fennec for WinMo.
install mobile shell 3.5 much better then any microsoft update lol
We even lost support for Skype ! Whate a shame. Windows Mobile is really coming to its end :/
I recently bought a HTC HD2 and sold it because I realised there is no future in Windows Mobile..
It might be the end of Windows Mobile.
But if our great XDA hackers manage to compile a fully functional Linux kernel with required drivers over time, I assure you the use of your device won't be lost. It's still one of the best hardware devices out there at the moment if you ask me.
With that, Windows Mobile will still be what it was. I'd not even WANT Windows 7 if it is heading the way it's going now..
You people need to get the facts right.
Firmware updates DO NOT COME FROM MICROSOFT.
They are custom built by each manufacturer.
It is HTC, SE, etc... that do NOT update their phones. They make money by selling hardware, so "no new features" on old hardware is an industry standard.
It is TRUE that windows mobile 7 will include an update feature similar to that of android where you can get OS updates without having to resort to flashing the whole firmware.
What isn't true is that microsoft will give you windows mobile 8 for free and so on...
Google is giving you "free" updates because android is a platform for google to sell it's services... gmail, calendar... etc.
TRUE STORY:
1. Make something easy to use and people will come running, and give up their privacy and data on the way.
2. People don't actually USE windows mobile. They just push the buttons. Windows mobile is a platform too, a business platform. You need a business built around MS technologies to take advantage of it's true value.
They told us, WM 6.5 will be continued for professional users. But I think, if this really happens, new software will be rare: Skype is off the hook. Many other may/will follow: They want big business with many customers.
I plan my switch to Android. HTC Desire is at the top of the wish list !! I hope there will be as much quality software as there is for windows mobile here at XDA devs! I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
Very sorry to hear that Skype has been discontinued. Is someone able to confirm that this:
"Can I still use Skype for Windows phones if I already have it?
Yes. People who have already installed Skype for Windows phones can of course continue to use it."
means that as long as you have skype installed, you can still use it, meaning forever?
Well, I'll continue using my TG01 for another 6 weeks and then I'm putting it on ebay for around £150 Sim-free. Not sure if I'll be following the phone market anymore. I've seen a rapid flow of tablets being made recently and with the addition of 3G, I think that they could possibly overtake mobile phone market, but as they are still coming to the surface, they need a little more time so it's a waiting game for now.
At least windows mobile was easy and fast to navigate, but what's the point in following it if developers are leaving in droves and software is dying out.
Bring on Windows 7 (not the mobile version, but a more portable version of the desktop version ). RIP windows mobile Good (in a way) while it lasted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my opinion in the near future many WM-programmers will switch to Android-programming. As we can see here in this community this switch has already started! That's a nice developement. I tested the HTC Legend last week and it was nice! You can even use the phone with minimal dependence on Google (apart from Android updates of course)!
Certainly the old Skype will work. But if Skype changes some fundamental things, you have to switch to programs with skype support like Fring. When WM is really dead, even the support for those apps would die, too.
But surely, eventually, someone could hack the TG01 to make it compatible with windows mobile 7 unless TG01 isn't hardware equipped to be able to run it? Perhaps there could be a slim chance? After all, the problem doesn't lie in the phone, but in the inupgradeable OS.
Guys your right!
its just dawned on me: What is the future of ' Microsoft Windows Mobile'
As Windows Phone 7, sounds rubbish and Wm is losing support from:
Skype IM
Adobe Flash 10.1
I fear the days are numbered before Android takes it thrown
I'm disappointed as well.
I'm heavily relying on Outlook to sync up two pocket pc phones (TP2s), as well as SpbFinance.
I wonder what's going to happen to Outlook, once Windows doesn't cater to adults, but only social networking teens and tweens? I imagine that other OSes, that put in some effort to use Outlook & Exchange, will eventually drop that too.
I have a second PC at home with OpenSUSE 11 on it, more as a curiosity than anything else. Maybe it's time to install GCC, the Eclipse IDE, and the Android SDK on it and start all over again. I'll probably start hanging out in the Android Development Forum.
As an aside, all the above are available totally gratis. Download them, install and run them, all under the GNU licenses.
In the early days Microsoft gave away Embedded Tools 3 (C++ and VB) and the later improved Embedded C++ 4.0, with the sole purpose of getting the platform moving. That vision seems to have gone, but it's probably too late now anyway.
This forum was an excellent lesson for Microsoft to follow the Google/Android model instead of Apple/iPhone.
Unfortunately for us, MS decided to follow the Apple/iPhone model, at least for their phone line of business..
I do believe though that the driving force of XDA is such that it could force MS into creating a WM/PocketPC series of devices based on WM6.5.x following the Google/Android model.
MS fears that if they do that, they will cannibalize WP7 sales, as everybody would love it:
- OEMs would not have to dump their development investments
- DEVELOPERS would have the choice to continue to use their libraries or use Silverlight,
- END USERS would continue to use their purchased software,
- even MS itself would love strong demand for devices like HD2 which would in turn bring strong license revenues.
Boiling everything down into one question to MS:
- Since, all that most people need is a phone with a notification system and apps marketplace, why couldn't you put this into any WM phone? Cheap, effective, and guaranteed to increase OS sales.
Answer: Well we did this... (Marketplace, Office 2010 etc.)
- Too late, you first killed the product and now you are trying to save it!
IT IS THE ERA THAT HAVE CHANGED, NOT THE TECHNOLOGY. I believe that WP7 would simply be the Windows Vista... WP7.1 (with WM6.5 app legacy support and multitasking) will be the Windows 7 of MS mobile phones.
In any case, if I was MS, I would have never introduced WP7 in the first place until I had it ready as my market expects it to be... How could they fall into the Osborne Effect? Did they expect that this wouldn't happen with MS? Well it did...
Dimitris
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
The only thing MS didn't understand for years is that one very elementary thing is missing for Windows Mobile.
A FREE development platform with a STYLEGUIDE and a nice set of STANDARD GUI Controls which look good, are finger friendly and easy to use. Go to the iPhone Development Homepage and you will see what I mean.
Even with WM6.5.x they didn't learn this. They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
This is all good and was the right way. But why is there no documentation on how to implement titanium plugins? Why is there no documentation and API on how to use the new controls? Why don't old programs use the new skinnable look of the controls? Why is there no API for gestures in .NET CF? ...
The support for programmers is absolutely worse (you can say not existent) for WM6.5.x so nobody wants to develop for it anymore!
Best regards,
Markus
TeddY89h said:
I tested Android and maany apps are disappointing .
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Click to collapse
Tozzy2 said:
The reason I'm never changing to Android.
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Sure many applications are disappointing, but there are JUST SO MANY that you need not worry about the ones that are garbage.
Its the same with EVERY platform.
And being in the US #2 market share position while WM sits within the #4 "other" position, you can be assured that Android already has FAR FAR FAR more software developers than WM will *EVER* see again.
corwin42 said:
I think Microsoft was on a good way with WM6.5.x. It got finger friendly, the user interface got more usable and consistent.
They made their GUI more consistent with nice looking skinnable buttons, new finger friendly controls, and a quite usable light weight today screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's HTC's GUI covering the ugly, ugly, WM. M$ has no merit in this!
WP7 is going to be born dead. too little, too late!! what could WP7 bring new now? hubs? they took the wrong turn following\copying the iPhone model.
i am on my way to android!
I think he's refering to WM itself. Manilla is everything but lite! In all latest devices HTC has been draining phone resources left and right for the sake of their trademark GUI.
The notion most users have of Android is also basically the HTC GUI (the Android basic GUI is also not that great).
I also think WM is on the brink of death but the fact is Android is not the answer. AFAIK the apps developed don't have capped access to the machine resources so we can forget about apps that really require everything the machine can give (such a good universal media player).
I writing an app now for Windows Mobile and I'm writing it for Windows Mobile as its the only platform that it can be written on as it makes use of a number of technologies and features that the other phones lack (I will admit Android is closest and hence a prime interest of mine for future projects). Windows Phone is a step backward technologically for sure, but the success of the iPhone proves that technology has little to do with market success.
I don't think the problem is technology, I think the problem is managing people's expectations and battery life. For example everyone wants GPS, Wifi and cellular data etc with apps running in the background using them all, but that is a battery killer and hence a phone killer. Apple's solution was to limit via the OS what could be running at any one time and hence while Microsoft might claim it was crappy apps that were causing problems (and there is some truth to that, but crappy coders are pretty much a universal problem on any platform and again if I limit what an application platform can do I also limit the damage crappy coders can do), the real problem was battery life and I think the Android is going to find the same problem. So in reality limiting the OS is really about limiting users and helping to manage their expectations and if that can be done, then you can be successful like Apple and its iPhone who lowered user expectations technically and then achieved in filling those lowered expectations. They are continuing this success by raising technical expectations as technology allows them. For example video conferencing in their next iPhone as innovation, your kidding even my old HTC Universal had a forward facing camera for video conferencing years ago but network speeds tended to leave the user disappointed, but now cellular speeds might be up to snuff and Apple will be successful with this (battery life should be interesting of course).
So I don't think technology is the key in this market, I think its finding the balance between what is technically possible and user expectations, and so you might have to drop the technical level of the product down and then raise it as technology makes it possible which sounds exactly like what Microsoft is doing with the Windows Phone.
Marketing and design was the key to Apple's success.
For years Apple held their ground and finally had a beak with the iPod. It was small, had a huge memory and was good looking. All of a sudden Apple was cool again. Over the years (and hardware revisions) the iPod became a trend, an icon and the Apple brand was automatically associated with the concept of quality by the average Joe. At this point they barely needed to market their products or be innovative anymore they just release stuff that already exists in a prettier package but otherwise inferior (iPad anyone?)
Apple gained the smartphone marked based on the cool factor, it's icon status and good looks. The iPhone had a cool looking hardware and an appealing and easy to use OS. It's however an overpriced piece of hardware with an inferior OS but what can we do if people get stupid when they see shiny objects? The flock of users, hardware standardization and centralized online market attracted developers and now the iPhone has a huge amount of programs available (sure most suck but they also have some handy stuff and lots if games).
The Windows Mobile seems to have emerged originally as an OS for a tiny computer... Not a phone on steroids. Microsoft would always have a market just as long as they released a solid platform and offered what the others didn't... Microsoft hasn't been cool for a long time (it's not a crowd pleaser). It was easier to drown the opponent products when you could just through in pile of cash to regain terrain but this won't work anymore (Apple's rolling in it). If MS is going to release just another iPhone they their new OS is dead on the water.