Hi. I'm very new to windows mobile 2005, and am very confused as to what Ramdisk, pagepool and program memory is. I understand that on top of all that, there is still extended ROM? I'm familiar with extROM from my wm2003SE time, but the persistent storage part of wm2005 has really made me jumbled up. Can someone help shed some light on this please? Thank you.
in 2005 all ram is for applications like on a pc
in 2003 ram is deviced between storage and application ram
ramdisk is using application ram as storage because himalaya's dont have much flash
in 2005 storage is flash
page pool is technical terms for how memory is used
basicly it means that if you let memory be used in larger blocks
it's faster but they use more mem
Thanks for the reply Rudegar. Are there any versions of WM5 now that allows the use of the full 128 MB of RAM that the Himalaya has? I've used C Shekhar's version that makes use of only 64 MB of RAM, and I find that I'm running out of space when installing certain applications that need to be installed on the main device instead of on Storage Card.
if no ramdisk is used all 128MB is application mem
if as it sounds like all 128MB was set to ramdisk for storage
is what you want then no applications would be able to run
at all
best bet is getting a larger ramdisk but some applications may not work if the ramdisk is too big
Thanks Rudegar. So, if I equate it to a computer, Ramdisk is the C drive where the operating system (and any other programs that is cooked in the ROM to be installed) are installed in, am I right?
Or is it the other way round, where Ramdisk is the memory that is used when an application starts up?
Is there a wiki page about this, that explains what ramdisk, pagepool and program memory?
Thanks again for all the replies!
Confusing indeed. Anyway, a RAMDisk is like a disk drive in your PC that you can store stuff in it. It look like a disk, although it is actually using your PC's RAM to store information. Rebooting/power-off your PC will erase everything in the RAMDisk.
So, from what I can understand, part of the Himalaya's RAM is used to make RAMDisk, which you can use to store files, install programs, etc, like the disk drive on your PC. While `Program memory` is like the RAM of your PC where software store their stuff temporary. Since both of this `RAMDisk` and `Program memory` uses the same physical memory, their size is inversely proportional to each other (eg large RAMDisk means small Program memory).
As for Page Pool.. this is a bit weird. From what it seems, this page pool is more like swap file to me (eg the virtual memory of Windows). From other pages, it seems that PagePool+RAMDisk = 64MB.
ram used to be controled by a slider in mem settings to deside what was used as you use pc ram and what was used for "hardisk"
real 2005 devices use flash storage for the "harddisk" part
and all their memory is like pc ram
non nativ 2005 devices like himalaya
dont have much storage so peopled made a program which would
use the memory as a "harddisk"
this mean that there is less memory "pc ram"
when ramdisk is used
here is some info about what a ramdisk is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_disk
Is there any version of win2005 without ramdisk and bigger pagepool like 40mb or something like that. Or is it possible to make windows like that because I have big memory card and don't need the ramdisk and don't use it?
Related
I had a friend who had this problem.I wonder who can help?With my O2 wizard i used to be running short of rom space ie storage memory as it had only 32mb left at factory default settings. My friend is running short of Program memory.ie ram space.
She is using eten m600+ that had 180mb storage for user and only 30mb program memory for user left at time of factory default settings.(when Bought from the shop)
original specs state 256mb rom and 64 mb ram.
after installing many programs the ppc still had about 125mb(excessive and redundant for running programs) left in storage and only 10 mb left in program memory.
Problem is certain programs like mapking, imap, agenda fusion(3000 contacts) consumes about 10 mb of program memory to run. then there is insufficient program memory to run a 2nd program at the same time.
If only we can shift like in my case 10 to 20mb from storage memory to program memory the the etenm600+ ppc would be wonderful.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THIS?
She has also a miotech A700 with about almost the same programs installed.The miotech factory default program memory is also left with 30mb when purchased. HOWEVER with almost the same programs installed the program memory left is about 25mb.THERFORE on miotech there is no problems to run multiple programs concurrently.
Question:
1.What cause the difference in usage of the program memory?
2.What to do to ensure that the program memory is not used up during installation of programs?
3.Are we able to see the Program memory to identify which of our programs are occupying the space?
4.Can we do anything eg to shift the programs that occupy the space in program memory to storage memory or storage card( like the way we are able to shift certain programs from storage memory to storage card by shifting the programs from the Program files in Main Memory to Program files in storage card therby freeing the storage memory)
Any insight into this would be much appreciated. At this point manufacturers had yet to increase ram ie program memory from 64mb up to 128 or 256mb as had been done for storage memory ie rom in the case of eten600+ had been increased to 256mb from 128mb(Eten m600/o2 or dopod products)
With my O2 wizard i used to be running short of rom space ie storage memory as it had only 32mb at factory default settings
Ok, here is the memory explanation:
As you may or may not (I am not quite certain from your post) know on WM5 devices like the Wizard storage memory is ROM, or more precisely flash (NAND if you want to get technical).
Program memory is RAM (I think it's SRAM not sure).
Since these are two physically different types of memory there is no way what so ever to use one in place of the other. So no borrowing storage memory to run programs.
Even if it was somehow possible (which it's not) to use flash to run programs it would bring your device to a halt as its read / write speeds are much to slow.
On WM5 systems RAM (program memory) is used just like on PC exclusively for running programs. It can not be used for storage so there is no danger of it being wasted during installation.
I don't have an explanation regarding the ETEN vs MIO issue, but keep the following in mind:
1) 64MB is in reality reported as about 55MB (binary count difference), 10 - 15 of that is reserved by the system and as much as 5 more may be taken up by resident apps / services depending on the device and the provider.
2) Same program may use up different amounts of RAM under different circumstances and may have memory leaks which means the memory it uses grows over time even if you do not input more data.
Also check out this neat app. Its a really great tool if you want to see whats going on on your device.
I know this was a problem in WM5, but is there any way in WM6 to force it to use more memory for Programme's instead of Storage.
I have 20 MB for storage, but only <10 MB for memory.
The problem is that is get a lof of "out of memory" errors when I'm using iGO (SE) and therefore want more 'real' memory to work with (I do not use 20 for storage)
Anyone got a "tweak / software / trick" to do this?
Storage is flash, program is RAM. The two are totally different on WM5 and newer devices compares to WM2003se and older devices.
The Himalaya is not an example of tweaking the allocation as this was not a WM5 device.
AlanJC said:
Storage is flash, program is RAM. The two are totally different on WM5 and newer devices compares to WM2003se and older devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know that in wm2003 you could easely change the amount between these two. I noticed that everytime WM5/WM6 is started there was a different mount of flash/ram, so WM is changing this every time ?!?! (so you could manuputalte this?)
AlanJC said:
The Himalaya is not an example of tweaking the allocation as this was not a WM5 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean with that (I have a universal / T-mobile MDA pro)?!
The only WM5 device you can change the amount of RAM vs Storage is the Himalaya, this is because it was a WM2003 device and it used RAM for both storage, and RAM to run apps in.
WM5 devices don't use RAM to store things in, just the partitioned area of ROM.
You can not use ROM to run things, you only have the RAM, so if you are running out of space, your only option is to run less.
AlanJC said:
You can not use ROM to run things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless, the universal had NOR based ROM, which could XIP
Storage vs. Program memory
Liquid said:
I know this was a problem in WM5, but is there any way in WM6 to force it to use more memory for Programme's instead of Storage.
I have 20 MB for storage, but only <10 MB for memory.
The problem is that is get a lof of "out of memory" errors when I'm using iGO (SE) and therefore want more 'real' memory to work with (I do not use 20 for storage)
Anyone got a "tweak / software / trick" to do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man! You would have read my mind! I was discussing the very same subject this morning with a friend of mine, but unfortunately he was unable to explain (he's a nokia freak), so I could save a new thread by sharing my views over here.
My query was if Uni has got 128ROM and 64RAM, Eten M700 has got 128ROM and 64RAM. Now, how does the respective reading be Program Total: 48.07 MB & Storage Total: 43.72 MB (cooked rom below)? Whereas M700 has got 128ROM and 64RAM, reading is Program 47.52 MB & Storage 70.24 MB!
If I drop a ringtone or copy an image or even an application, would it utilises storage or program? If I install a cab file, would it go to program or storage? I am facing a terrible issue when I use couple of applications even after closing them, I lose about 10 MB! I know some cooked ROMs had a program memory of 52 MB!
Any one could explain?
BTW, what's XIP?
Cyber-mate said:
If I drop a ringtone or copy an image or even an application, would it utilises storage or program?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Storage. WM5+ uses 'storage' to store apps
Cyber-mate said:
If I install a cab file, would it go to program or storage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, storage(this includes other storage media like extended rom and storage card)
Cyber-mate said:
BTW, what's XIP?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XIP=eXecute In Place. This is a common property of NOR based flash media. NAND based flash media cannot XIP. XIP lets the apps to execute in the ROM itself.
XIP is mostly used by Palm in their Treos to store the OS
kdskamal said:
Storage. WM5+ uses 'storage' to store apps
Again, storage(this includes other storage media like extended ROM and storage card)
XIP=execute In Place. This is a common property of NOR based flash media. NAND based flash media cannot XIP. XIP lets the apps to execute in the ROM itself.
XIP is mostly used by Palm in their Treos to store the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Big thank you for the explain. Now, what about the difference in total memory reading among different PDAs?
Short Story:
Is there a way to change what my HTC device thinks is program only RAM vs Storage only?
Long Story:
I have an HTC Titan, but thats not important as this is a standard question. I couldn't find a similar question or answer by searching the forums, but if someone has a better search keyword for me to use, post it here too.
Is there a way to expand what the device thinks is Program memory? I'm trying to install CoD to test the Mogul (even if you post that it doesnt work I still like to know my original question). I have about 20mb left of "program" memory, 130mb left of "storage", and a 512micro sd empty (minor IE cache and attachments on it). I'm of course assuming that the ROM just makes those setting in the RAM and its not two seperate chips.
from wm5 ms changed the way memory is handled / works
pda's used to use flash for the rom
and ram devived between application and storage
but as batt death would delete peoples storage
and flash becomming dirt cheap
they changed it so ram was only! used
for application memory
and flash was used for storage
so the slider to devive oneself is no longer present
there are tools at least for some devices which make a ramdisk for
the pda which take some of the application memory and let one
install stuff on it you
can check buzzdev.net to see if that tool DiscOnChip is out for your devices
So they are fundamentally different memory types and chips?
yes
you can compare it with pc memory vs. pc harddisk
hhmm is that a new spam tactics ?
to post spam inside threads to make deleting harder?
Fair enough...thanks...shame it turned out harder then I though
.....that is a very interesting spam tatic...never seen that...*wonders off to find an mod*
yes it's harder after wm5 but with buzzdev.net's chipondisk program it handle it
not sure how many devices it support as it was mainly made for old devices
where they only have very limited storage space
and "alot" of memory because they were made for the old wm2003 and prev
memory deviding system
It just seems to me that, while yes I like storage but you give us a SD slot so why make only 47mb Program and 162mb Storage....
Hi all, I'm not sure if it is already done, but when I open memory to see how much I spend and how much is still left I see that the phone splits memory for data use and memory for program use. is it possible to combine those to program use only? or does the pro does that automatic when program mem is full? because I bought a microsdhc cart and all my data is doing on that.
thanks in advanced!
You must be new to Windows Mobile. Windows Mobile devices has 2 types of memory, RAM and ROM. Since WM5, RAM is used to maintain running processes. ROM is used as storage (unlike pre WM5, where RAM is splitted between storage and running programs and ROM storage is hidden).
Touch Pro has 288MB RAM (about 200MB usable) and 512MB ROM (about 318MB usable). This is due to the amount of RAM used by OS (while running) and ROM used by OS (in storage).
When you insert your MicroSD card, you'll see a new folder in File Explorer. It's called Storage Card.
So, in simple statement, no, you can't combined the memory as they are different types of memory.
in other words, its like trying to combine your desktop PC RAM memory with DVD disk storage space.
lol okay I very much understand what your saying. I am new at wm idd. but hell no with computers I actually do a study Informatica but just didnt knew how wm was made or never really looked into it. I thought it was just like a harddisk on a pc were you install your programs & data like music. and it uses the RAM memory for running programs I installed on the harddisk. but never mind very much thnx for the explanation!
Hi guys, i have recently flashed my uni with the awesome TML v8.81 Rom, I noticed there is a Flash Disk under My device. What's the purpose of that? Could anyone tell me what's the difference between installing software under my device and flash disk?
Many thanks
id like to know this too, as it seems the flash disk removes 15MB or so of much needed RAM, what is the purpose of it, so far I have installed everything on normal storage, should I be installing things like Opera on the flash disk because it runs faster?
types of memory
Ok, quick resume of memory:
There are four types of internal memory on the Universal (the quoted MB are from a 64MB G3 uni):
Code:
[B]Storage Memory[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Usually 43.72MB with 40MB free (depends on installation of full/vanilla ROM)
What: Your main storage for all installations on your device (including windows)
Use: This where the device ROM (eg WM6.x) and other device programs are stored (everything under \).
eh? : This can be considered much like your C: drive on a PC.
+info: Get a ROM that has just about everything you want.
Getting vanilla ROM and installing apps in Storage is likely to use more Storage than if you get ROM that has all apps you require.
I never install anything here unless I have no option, or it's a Today item.
Some programs will use this as cache or temp storage area.
[B]Program Memory[/B]
Type: Program (RAM)
Size: Usually 48-49MB with 30MB or less free (this figure lowers with the more Apps that are run, an initial 12MB is eaten by Windows)
What: This is your available memory for running programs. Program Memory is also for used by Boot and PagePool (usually 6MB).
Use: The more of this you have, the more programs you can run, and the faster memory hungry apps can run.
eh? : This can be considered much like your RAM on a PC
+info: The Today Screen items will also eat up this memory, so stay away from "bling" Today items if you want other memory hungry apps to run (like route navigators)
NB. This memory is NOT eaten up or reduced by any other medium (ie, FlashDisk). 30MB free is great, but 20MB is usual running for a 64MB Uni.
[B]FlashDisk[/B] (only available on G3 according to wiki [I]- someone clarify?[/I])
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Can be 10MB to 30MB - and is made available solely by what's left by the ROM and given to you by the cook
What: Extra storage which is retained through a soft-reset.
Use: Store programs you always want available (ie, not on SD), but don't want in your Storage Memory
eh?: This can be considered much like your second hard-drive on a PC.
+info: If important, choose cook and ROM wisely, otherwise install such stuff on approprate SD/Storage.
The FlashDisk is where I store my messages and attachments (and programs like music/video players if cook doesn't supply them).
NB. This doesn't take up any Program Memory. It's either made available by the cook, or if the cook doesn't make it available it's wasted space that you can't use.
[B]ExtendedROM[/B]
Type: Internal Storage
Size: Is usually 9.96MB
What: Extra memory which doesn't survive a soft-reset.
Use: Anything you don't mind losing :)
eh?: This could be considered as a RAMDrive on a PC (that is, in that it's volatile, but not that it takes up any Program Memory)
+info: I use this for all cache (eg PIExplorer, Opera etc)
NB. Again, this is either made available or wasted space you can't use (see FlashDisk NB).
[B]Storage Card[/B]
Type: External Storage
Size: Can be anything (I have seen up to 16GB)
What: Extra storage for programs, cache etc. Always slower than any of the above. (NB. If anyone really interested, I can get you some values here)
Use: Anything that doesn't fit into the Uni ;)
Install apps here that aren't required by the system (ie, non-Today items)
eh?: This could be considered as any removeable storage on a PC (even an SD card!!!)
+info: Don't put anything here that the system expects to exist (eg, Today items). I use it for maps, music, videos and all apps not supplied by ROM cook.
I only have use one huge SD card, so I install all my apps on it. You may want to reconsider your installations if you use more than one SD card.
However, Cotulla created a ROM for G3 that combined Storage (not program memory)
.
Nice answer that!
Now here is where it gets confusing I own a G4 with Tomals Rom on it and it has flash disk on it, I always thought it wasn't meant to. It does work too. I keep other small apps on it, it seems to load as fast as main memory. SD cads have a small time lag on a soft reset, so anything that needs to load on start up needs to be on board not SD. I'm not a cook so i'm sure there is a good answer but I often wondered why memory can't be repartitioned over to ram instead of flash disk or storage?
Jay
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
JonMorgan said:
Yes, I think that wiki is wrong. I'm sure it's the ExtendedROM that's only on G3, whereas FD is down to the cook.
Hardware constraint on Uni means you can't partition Storage (or FD etc) over to Program Memory (RAM).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I get extended rom now too. things have moved on since the WiKi was made I guess.
Jay