Related
nVidia GeForce and PureVideo HD technology.
ARM11 Architecture.
Up to 720p HD Video decoding (and encoding!)
Up to 1280x1024 display support.
Ultra low power arcitecture (10 hours of HD playback, 1000 hours of MP3 playback!!!)*
Native drivers for Direct3D Mobile Shader Model 3.0 and Open GL ES 2.0 (DirectX 9.0c equivelent).
Advanced anti aliasing for 3D applications.
User accesible drivers, publically available and upgradable by the end user(!)
Propietery 3D users interface to replace the mundane Windows Mobile shell.
http://www.nvidia.co.uk/object/apx_2500_uk.html
*Couldn't find that info on the webpage but it's in their press release they sent out yesterday.
Sounds pretty much like a dream come true.
Sure it will most probably have drawbacks and it doesn't have integrated GPS etc. But still, could turn out to be a pretty amazing platform. I especially like the part that software will be end user upgradable.
Full press release in the post below:
MOBILE WORLD CONGRESS 2008—BARCELONA, SPAIN—FEBRUARY 11, 2008—
NVIDIA Corporation, the world leader in visual computing technologies, today introduced NVIDIA® APX 2500, a breakthrough applications processor that enables intuitive 3D user interfaces and engaging high-definition video on connected Windows Mobile phones. The APX 2500 applications processor delivers an unprecedented 10 hours of 720p HD playback—an industry first for video quality and power consumption on a mobile device, as well as stunning HD camcorder and ultra-high-resolution photo imaging capabilities.
“This is the dawn of the second personal computer revolution,” said Jen-Hsun Huang, president and CEO of NVIDIA. “Technologies are converging in amazing mobile devices that have all of the rich, visual capabilities of a modern PC—from watching movies and making video calls to surfing the web and playing 3D games. The APX 2500, combined with Microsoft® Windows Mobile, will make the next generation of smartphones our most personal computer.”
NVIDIA has worked closely with Microsoft on the development of APX 2500, marking a significant milestone in a long-term relationship that has seen the companies share a passion for making interaction with technology more visual and instinctive across multiple platforms. The combined engineering efforts of the two companies will ensure that next generation versions of the Windows Mobile operating system will harness the capabilities of the APX 2500 applications processor across challenging multimedia use cases.
“Microsoft is dedicated to providing people true mobile freedom, so that they only need to carry one device for both communication and entertainment,” said Todd Warren, corporate vice president of Microsoft’s mobile communication business. “We are delighted to work with NVIDIA to offer our users an amazing visual experience on the next-generation Windows Mobile phones.”
The NVIDIA APX 2500 applications processor, which is the culmination of 800 man years of engineering, delivers:
• The industry’s first HD (720p) playback and capture capability for handheld devices
• A new ultra-low-power (ULP) GeForce® core that is fully OpenGL ES 2.0 and Microsoft Direct3D® Mobile compliant and the lowest power 3D hardware solution available for acceleration of intuitive 3D user interfaces
• NVIDIA nPower™ technology, enabling over 10 hours of high-definition video playback and up to 100 hours of audio—more than four times the audio playback of the latest touch-screen phones
• The connectivity and media acceleration technologies required to enable the latest Web 2.0 applications, from effortless web browsing and social networking to GPS and mapping applications.
Just one word: WOW....
Ok.. two more: Wanna have...
We will see. I remember O2 Flame use Nvidia video chip too but it's basically useless since no driver support.
All these kaiser killers making me regret getting an 18 month contract as of december b4 knowing about the video driver problem *searches for gun*
jackleung said:
We will see. I remember O2 Flame use Nvidia video chip too but it's basically useless since no driver support.
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Click to collapse
From what I know it isn't so much lack of driver support as lack of applications?
In any case, this is quite different. It's a whole architecture (as opposed to nVidias earlier attempts which were just obile GPUs) and as mentioned there will be user downloadable driver for it from the start.
And in any case, this platforms main purpose (unlike the MSM 7200) is graphics and video so no OEM in their right mind would use it unless they enable it fully. (There are cheaper and less complex alternatives if you just want a general PDA chipset.)
Rather than a Kaiser killer, could it be potentially a PSP/DS competitor?! (definitely not PSP/DS killer though)
---
Infuruno said:
All these kaiser killers making me regret getting an 18 month contract as of december b4 knowing about the video driver problem *searches for gun*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about those of us that only signed 18-month contracts to O2 for Polaris last week...
I saw this yesterday, it's nice, something of an iPhone rip-off and definitely quite a powerful bit of kit, but it's a bit too po-faced and arsey for my liking
Olipro said:
I saw this yesterday, it's nice, something of an iPhone rip-off and definitely quite a powerful bit of kit, but it's a bit too po-faced and arsey for my liking
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Click to collapse
I think you're a bit confused.
this is just a chipset.
you are probably thinking of the new SE phone but that phone has absolutely nothing to do with this chipset
regarding being a PSP/DS killer, yes: performancewise this will slaughter a DS and will be noticably more powerful than a PSP (it will never be a psp/ds killer in terms of gaming value though since games for winmo are few and pretty poor on average of course)
Olipro said:
I saw this yesterday, it's nice, something of an iPhone rip-off and definitely quite a powerful bit of kit, but it's a bit too po-faced and arsey for my liking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, nice one!
I hope that was just a joke since iPhone is just plain'old 2D (no 3D hardware)
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/ind...announces_the_apx_2500_for_windows_mobile.htm
^wow, just wow. =D
what sux is the long wait 2010? 2011? 2020? dangit i wanted this 20 years ago!!!!
imagine playing crysis on the celly =P. nah, i'm content with playing 320x240 smoothly on the small screen, something current phones still have a ton of issues doing. that a lot more codex.
I waited quite a while for the kaiser to come out, and now that it is out of course there is another twinkle in the sky, about then there will be another, there is no real catching up with technology.
undac said:
I think you're a bit confused.
this is just a chipset.
you are probably thinking of the new SE phone but that phone has absolutely nothing to do with this chipset
regarding being a PSP/DS killer, yes: performancewise this will slaughter a DS and will be noticably more powerful than a PSP (it will never be a psp/ds killer in terms of gaming value though since games for winmo are few and pretty poor on average of course)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think he's talking about the prototype nvidia built. You can see it in action on youtube: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=nvidia+apx+2500&search_type=
Change the name of the thread, its retarded.
Anyways, I'm very impressed. however don't expect this puppy to be released on any PDA's anytime soon. atleast not for another 2 years
Let's talk about the Touch Pro performance.
I will post some quotes.
branko.savic said:
Ok, so just to be fair I did some more testings on all three of my devices to find the optimal settings, here is the results:
Test performed on same video, with coreplayer 1.2.5, and optimal settings for each device:
Omnia:
Raw framebuffer: 442.74%
Universal:
Direct Draw: 165.28%
Touch Pro:
QTv display: 152.44%
Smooth Zoom and Dither turned off on each device!
So in conclusion, again Omnia wins by a huge 277.46% over the next best device that is the Universal. And even then the Universal is 12.84% better then the Touch Pro!
Please bare in mind that the Universal is a three years old device with only 64MB ram, while Touch pro is brand new and 288MB ram! They have same clock speed but Touch pro is supposed to have a better/newer chipset then the Universal!
There is no doubt in my mind anymore, Touch pro is missing the video drivers, or could it just be that qualcomm chipset just sucks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DSF said:
poor directdraw, framebuffer/video performance. Just to make an idea: an old device from 2005 with omap 850 200mhz CPU performs better in this area than the touch pro @ qualcomm 528mhz. what a shame. The test were done in this topic (in romanian, sorry). CorePlayer was used for benchmark. I will summarize.
- HTC Tornado overclocked (262Mhz) max performance: 174.22%
- Touch Pro max performance: 172,67%
Both in Raw framebuffer mode. When used QTV it gains only 162,64%. How come?
It's pitty, 262Mhz from OMAP performs better than 528!!!Mhz from Qualcomm?!
The video used for tests is this one. (320x240 @ 25FPS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what do you think? Are the qualcomm chipsets just junk or we got poor drivers? Personally, I was hoping that HTC did learn something after the HTC TyTN II issues..
Another prove of sh*ty graphics on touch pro: Touch Pro landscape redraw issue (videos included)
Furthermore I would like to make some recommendations to see the true performance of touch pro:
- Rats!! http://clickgamer.com/download.htm?pvid=15358
- Ubulis TSE http://www.ionfx.com/product_windows_mobile_obulisTSE.htm (note the req: "200Mhz CPU or higher"
- Spore
- Prince of Persia HD
- Assasin Creed HD
- etc.
Wonderfull, the graphics are so fluid... NOT.
How about GL benchmarks between the iPhone, Kaiser, Raphael, and Toshiba G810 Portege?
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....ser)&D3=HTC Touch Pro&D4=Toshiba G810 Portege
A lot of it is the quality of HTC's drivers since the Portege does better, but the rest is Qualcomm's fault because even the Protege is inferior compared to an iPhone, N95, etc etc.
However, I cannot find a better phone that has a decent 3D chip on it, has at&t 3G, touch screen, and isn't NDA locked.
If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?
Keep me wondering!
NuShrike, Touch Pro has a newer CPU that the one found on Toshiba G810 Portege, however, the benchmarks are still unsatisfying.
Here's some interesting information
Q: HTC, Qualcomm and the missing drivers—where do we send the angry mob with torches?
A: Qualcomm has a tiered pricing policy with their chipsets—so although you bought the chip, you have not bought all the features. So you have to pay additional fees per phone to get things like aGPS, graphic acceleration, etc.
In the past, HTC had no problems when using the older MSM-6500 chips (ARM9 processors) without drivers hence their reluctance to pay for any or additional support with the new MSM-7500 chips (ARM11 processors), especially since the newer processors were advertised to match or outperform the older generation.
Unfortunately, Qualcomm’s ARM11 performance does not match their previous ARM9 processor and is therefore, not quite as advertised. To get the proper performance out of the ARM11, one has to have knowledge of the processor’s implementation and design, but since that processor is not publicly available; the solution requires cooperation and assistance. HTC in this instance does not have this knowledge and is therefore unable to directly fix the problem, so they are put in a tough situation as they already have millions of these devices sold but they don’t want to pay Qualcomm more than they have to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Full article: http://wmexperts.com/articles/editorials/qualcomm_htc_chipsets_and_feat.html
And here we've got a comparison between touch pro and dell axim v51v (a VGA PocketPC from year 2005).
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....whide=true&D1=HTC Touch Pro&D2=Dell Axim X51v
(I've bold the VGA because there are some users that are trying to find excuses of poor performance because of VGA resolution)
branko.savic said:
If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?
Keep me wondering!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because Qualcomm owns wcdma! Anyone developing chipsets will have to pay them royalties which in the end increases cost of the chips and handsets.
branko.savic said:
If Qualcomm is such crap, then why oh why is HTC using it on all new devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They probably make their hardware really cheap compared to other solutions.
There aren't many others (or at all) that package 3G WCDMA, asymmetric dual-core ARM11/ARM9, GPS, (WiFi?), BT?, and 3D GPU all into one at a pretty good power envelope.
The problem sounds like it's $$$ to access any of Q's advanced features, and they're not even that good.
Funny part is the CPU design was licensed from ARM in 2002 and is only hitting mainstream last year with the Kaiser/N95. However, it seems Qualcomm never licensed FPU capable ARM11 design, versus TI (N95 cpu) and Samsung (iPhone cpu) whom did.
If the video issue was the only problem...
Sometime it really annoys me how poor can perform... When I was thinking to switch from my HTC Tornado (TI OMAP 850 CPU (180Mhz)) I was saying the performance difference must be enormous , but I find that those qualcomm CPUs are crap or the drivers sucks.. (but I tend to think it's the first variant). I really want that my device to perform well while listening to music, not to wait 1-2 sec for Start Menu to appear (atention, Start Menu, not Programs list, while scrolling in that list the things are so laggy, but that's a WM issue, so I pass. I've got a lot of apps installed)
I'm really dissapointed of crappy performance. My first and last qualcomm cpu-enabled device. If I know that before buying... but no one complains of this, all worship it (for eg, see gsmarena review).
An advice for interested people in buying Touch Pro: if you want a good device PASS touch pro.
It simply doesn't deserve it's price. It has a lot of super nice features (5 row qwerty, plenty of RAM, good amount of ROM, accelerometer, multiple sensors, good shape, superb VGA resolution, HSPDA, etc etc) but has soo many issues (low volume, crap speakerphone/earpiece, music gap, slider play, gps lag, poor directdraw performance, landscape redraw issue, poor overall system performance..)
I really expected way much more from a 2008 year device and especially from HTC!
BTW, I'm using a custom ROM (T.I.R V8), so no I'm not using the factory ROM
What I'm wondering is that just a few owners joined the topic.. so, I guess, that the performance of your touch pro doesn't bother you..
then, we shouldn't be surprised if HTC isn't interested. They think that we are happy with the performance of the device.
Edit: http://brew.qualcomm.com/bnry_brew/pdf/brew_2007/Tech-303_Ligon.pdf - see page 13. And that's MSM72000. We got MSM7201A chipset on Touch Pro (better). So in final may be HTC fault? I'm so confused
Yep, have to agree the performance is abysmal. I heard HTC didn't want to pay some company for a proper graphics driver.... but thats just hearsay.
And have you seen the HTC HD? From the youtube videos I've watched ot goes like s**t off a shovel, seems they managed to get that thing working properly, if they'd only do an update for other devices.
Guys.. we need to do something, I'm really dissapointed about touch pro performance.
Look here how smooth does run quake 3 on nokia n82 (CPU: TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz*): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i4fOCrCv0
"Quake 3 Arena Running on nokia n82 in perfect speed,with all graphics settings set to high and Anti-Aliasing ON!!!!"
If you want, I will record a video showing quake 3 in action on touch pro, low fps, choppy sound, etc.
* Embedded 220MHz TI TMS320C55x DSP (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS baseband), 640KB shared SRAM, 2D/3D graphics acceleration, dual display support, analog/digital TV video output, TI TWL92230 companion chip
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a2420
Is that fair..?
I just don't know what to say. The time is passing and nothing's done in this direction..
@Gav_ haven't seen touch hd running other stuff than internet browsing (opera with the full quares when dragging, etc..), youtube, general menu browsing..
DSF said:
Guys.. we need to do something, I'm really dissapointed about touch pro performance.
Look here how smooth does run quake 3 on nokia n82 (CPU: TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz*): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i4fOCrCv0
"Quake 3 Arena Running on nokia n82 in perfect speed,with all graphics settings set to high and Anti-Aliasing ON!!!!"
If you want, I will record a video showing quake 3 in action on touch pro, low fps, choppy sound, etc.
* Embedded 220MHz TI TMS320C55x DSP (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS baseband), 640KB shared SRAM, 2D/3D graphics acceleration, dual display support, analog/digital TV video output, TI TWL92230 companion chip
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a2420
Is that fair..?
I just don't know what to say. The time is passing and nothing's done in this direction..
@Gav_ haven't seen touch hd running other stuff than internet browsing (opera with the full quares when dragging, etc..), youtube, general menu browsing..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally TOTALLY agree. I mean how can we fix this? How much time is going to go by until the chipset can finally do what it should be able to do?
The only take I have on these devices, is that they are pretty much marketed as "business class" devices. Yeah, they will play video, but you know that if they market it as a "business" device, they probably won't do much. If they
marketed it as a gaming device, or video music player, it might be a different
story. They made a Swiss army knife, but it doesn't do any of them well.
I'm happy with my TP, but I don't listen to music or watch videos, other than once in a while a youtube. I have mine for receiving email, text messages & phone calls, which, if you could get an honest answer from HTC, is where they think the market is for these devices.
@djcaston only HTC & Qualcomm knows..
No idea how we can fix this, but we should do something (make this public, e-mail htc, publish on mobile news site, etc). The solution/answer SHOULD come from the companies mentioned above.
@p51d007 but the DIAMOND is marked as a "business class" device too? I don't think so.
Even as a business device is not working too good. Just try some powerpoint presentations, open a doc file and see how much time it takes to load.
So..
I've made more comparisons.
Quake III Arema
Nokia N82 - Symbian S60 QVGA
TI OMAP 2420 @ 330 MHz, chipset launched in 2005
Graphic: PowerVR MBX
In action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i4fOCrCv0
Dell Axim x51v - WM VGA
Intel XScale PXA270 @ 624 MHz, chipset launched in 2004
Graphic: Intel 2700G5 Multimedia Accelerator
In action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuEGqYZNek
Touch Pro/Diamond
Qualcomm MSM7201A @ 528 MHz, chipset launched in 2008
Graphic: Not sure.. maybe embeded ATI Imageon?
In action: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x8_wfWaYa_w
(the device in video is a touch pro)
SEGA Sonic 3 (Picodrive emulator)
Same emulator on both devices.
The hardware acceleration does not count as the last test includes Picodrive emulator that doesn't use HW acceleration at all. However, you can see that on SPV C600 the gameplay is smooth, something that we cannot say about the one on touch pro.
HTC Tornado (SPV C600)
TI OMAP 850 @ 200 MHz, overclocked at 252Mhz, chipset launched in 2005
Graphic: no Hardware Acceleration
In action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFmUxwGBmMc
Touch Pro/Diamond
Qualcomm MSM7201A @ 528 MHz, chipset launched in 2008
Graphic: Not sure.. maybe embeded ATI Imageon?
In action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLD8OGFk8w
(the device in video is a touch pro)
As you see, touch pro is below EVERYTHING. A tehnology from year 2008 is so way behind a tehnology from 3-4 years ago. It's looks so anormally to me..
@p51d007 I'm asking you now, Dell Axim x51v was marketed as a "business" or a multimedia device?
Point taken....the only response I could say would be HTC & graphics DON'T go together LOL...
DSF said:
@p51d007 I'm asking you now, Dell Axim x51v was marketed as a "business" or a multimedia device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I saw some xperia drivers posted once that people were saying made the touch pro run better. Anyone ever look into this?
i'm from Diamond forum, but totally get what you're all saying here
I had a great game on my Elf called Chain Reaction. It was brilliant for killing a short amount of time while waiting for something/someone.... One of my problems with the Elf was that it wasn't powerful enough to multi-task at anything, like listen to music whilst playing a couple of rounds of Chain Reaction. I can't tell you how p****d I was when I fired up my Touch Pro for the first time and it realised it couldn't even play that game with anything like a smooth frame rate, let alone do it whilst listening to music. Never before have I spent so much money on a product that promised so much but delivered such a weird mix of 'that's really cool' and 'that's so poor/unreliable'. I've been emailing HTC for a month now asking them for a replacement unit or a refund (over the GPS issue), and I still haven't had a single reply. LOL....
Ouzo said:
I had a great game on my Elf called Chain Reaction. It was brilliant for killing a short amount of time while waiting for something/someone.... One of my problems with the Elf was that it wasn't powerful enough to multi-task at anything, like listen to music whilst playing a couple of rounds of Chain Reaction. I can't tell you how p****d I was when I fired up my Touch Pro for the first time and it realised it couldn't even play that game with anything like a smooth frame rate, let alone do it whilst listening to music. Never before have I spent so much money on a product that promised so much but delivered such a weird mix of 'that's really cool' and 'that's so poor/unreliable'. I've been emailing HTC for a month now asking them for a replacement unit or a refund (over the GPS issue), and I still haven't had a single reply. LOL....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just sent them an email myself. Hopefully enough people email them
so that we may get a proper update! Its ridiculous when I can barely run Quake 3 on this thing while my Viewsonic PPC runs it just fine!
And its not just about playing games either. The whole phone feels laggy..
Sorry to complain so much, but I paid good money for this thing..
And I like the design so much, I dont wanna return it just yet....
Coming from a Kaiser, and putting Elite RC1 on my Raphael, I was reasonably satisfied - until I got a G1.
Side by side is like pentium vs 486. My point being, they are running similar hardware, so I'm not sure the Qualcomm chipset is so crap after all.
I haven't seen any 3d accelerated stuff yet, but I know these devices are capable of great 3d gaming.
Indeed, as an Axim X50v owner I am dismayed at how immensely better it is in the graphics department, for a device so much older. HTC, Qualcomm or perhaps even a carrier needs to get off their hands and take care of the customers. Publicity may be one of the few tools we have, but I guess we might as well use it. Posting your displeasure here is as good an action as any, but take the time to comment or reply in any venue that you see these issues being discussed.
C'mon manufacturers/suppliers ... get those damn drivers out!
i do agree.
i began to get frustrated with my TP that i started thinking of selling it, there are alot of things that arent going well at all in its preformance, and since the thread is about preformance in general i have a bad experience with my TP laginess. and GPS for example my wife bought a diamond a couple of days ago, and some how her Diamond gets a fix in less than 30 seconds, my TP takes considerably longer. the device is really really laggy, i sometimes wonder it recieved my click or not when i touch the screen. and its video preformance is extreemly poor. i mean i have an XDA flame and a toshiba g900, i thought the G900 is a crappy phone but it has GoForce 5500 chipset with some driver update its video is becomming amazingly fast and smooth.
what makes me angry lets say is that im a WM fanatic and the company where i work distributed iphones on all of us to use in our business tasks, it was a surprise to be honest that the Iphone took over this market really wiered, but after testing it for a while its much faster than the TP and it scores much higher in all tests with a massive diffrence, the only WM phone that came near the Iphone is the Samsung omnia, i think i already know why. both are samsung CPUs i tested the samsung omina of my friend and i think the Omnia is the WM version of the Iphone.
THough HTC is the bigger sister in the smart phone world but she is letting her clients badly down with crappy drivers and sometimes crappy PDs.
best regards
Kevin
Hello,
I had an opportunity to visit this year's CeBIT 2009 and looked, poked, searched for some cool devices.Here is what I saw and my observations :
HTC :
Was under the stall of Brightpoint , as Brightpoint is the HTC's global disribution partner.I saw all the devices except TOuch Pro 2 and was impressed by the New UI in Touch diamond 2.The visitors, however were keen on having a look around HD
ASUS :
Probably the biggest stall in its field.Displaying the next generation motherboard technology, next generation EEEPC and other cool things.They indeed were showing Garmin-Asus Nuvi phones and I was pretty impressed by the Linux version.
LG/Samsung :
Were showing some upcoming smart phones.I could not see the latest LG arena, and also the latest from samsung.However I had a look on Samsung Omnia HD.It did not impress me much
Acer :
Acer had displayed the upcoming 4 models.The design of the one with keyboard looks better and sturdy, but all other models looked little bit dull in looks and appeal.May b when final devices show up their faces, they will b better.
Microsoft :
I was quite impressed by the presentation of their stuff.MS had a seperate display for WM devices.Devices from all the WM partners were displayed.
Others :
Here I wud just mention about a company who had a Touch screen with both capabilites of making any exisitng LCD TV or Monitor of Capacitive and Resistive Multi touch.This is so far not extendable to our phones, but it might soon revolutionise the TOuch screens of future devices.
I hope this will be of some good use to forum members
hdubli said:
Hello,
I had an opportunity to visit this year's CeBIT 2009 and looked, poked, searched for some cool devices.Here is what I saw and my observations :
HTC :
Was under the stall of Brightpoint , as Brightpoint is the HTC's global disribution partner.I saw all the devices except TOuch Pro 2 and was impressed by the New UI in Touch diamond 2.The visitors, however were keen on having a look around HD
ASUS :
Probably the biggest stall in its field.Displaying the next generation motherboard technology, next generation EEEPC and other cool things.They indeed were showing Garmin-Asus Nuvi phones and I was pretty impressed by the Linux version.
LG/Samsung :
Were showing some upcoming smart phones.I could not see the latest LG arena, and also the latest from samsung.However I had a look on Samsung Omnia HD.It did not impress me much
Acer :
Acer had displayed the upcoming 4 models.The design of the one with keyboard looks better and sturdy, but all other models looked little bit dull in looks and appeal.May b when final devices show up their faces, they will b better.
Microsoft :
I was quite impressed by the presentation of their stuff.MS had a seperate display for WM devices.Devices from all the WM partners were displayed.
Others :
Here I wud just mention about a company who had a Touch screen with both capabilites of making any exisitng LCD TV or Monitor of Capacitive and Resistive Multi touch.This is so far not extendable to our phones, but it might soon revolutionise the TOuch screens of future devices.
I hope this will be of some good use to forum members
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the report! Was Toshiba also present? At MS' stand (see http://msmobiles.com/news.php/8084.html ), it was still not possible to touch it - while, at MWC, people were actually alpowed to play with it and even take videos of it - see my dedicated post. Hope if there's a Toshi stand at CeBIT and they do show the TG01 too, it'll have other tidbits worth publishing.
Interesting pda news...thanks for the update!
Did you see anything on the Pharos Traveler 137?
Nope could not see Pharos..but Mio was sighted
our HTCs has long been able to do things like weather... maps.. etc
why is N97 so hyped?
because its made by the biggest phone maker inthe world
and a lot of nokia user dont like to switch hanset brands
which means theyll have not had this amount of features
be nice to them though
they dont dont know there better phones
N97
The N97 is Nokias newest N series device.
N series is VERY famous for all in one smartphones that actually kick the crap out of all HTC's efforts.
lol sounds unbelievable doesnt it......Nokia....smartphone....cant be in the same sentance!
I had an N95 and I now own an N95 8GB. The N95 was my introduction into the symbian world.
Simple facts for you guys:
The n95 n85 all the old N series devices run S60 V3 operating system. After first round of updates etc this has been my favorite OS yet. Very stable very fast, very capable of multitasking - No touch screen on s60 V3. They run OMAP 2420's etc just like windows mobile. Oh but Nokia didnt feck us like HTC did without giving us proper drivers.
I play quake 3 arena full GL on my N95 - flawlessly connected to bluetooth mouse and keyboard and TV out.
Most N series phones have up to 5 MPXL Carl Ziess Camera's which are arguably the best in their range out of all manufacturers. My N95 is fully capable of recording VGA vids at 30 FPS.
All the N series devices have full in line remote controls for Audio playback (play pause stop rewind fstforward answer volume etc)
The N series devices have all been hacked at and all system files are accesible for enterprising users. (freeloaders rejoice - yes!)
The built in web browser supports flash video out of the box, its fast and works well.
Built in music player is flawless..
Most major apps have been ported to S60 V3.
- Coreplayer with support for my GPU on my N95? Yes!
- Mobipocket for ebooks! Yes
- Opera mini? Yes
Its rare that I find things that work on smaller windows mobile devices but not on S60 V5.
So, the old N series devices have a huge following. The N86 with its 8mpxl 128 ram and tiny form factor is probably the best mini smartphone in the world in terms of raw power - multimedia capability and functionality....
I was waiting for the N97 thinking that it would push the envelope further.
The N97 runs S60 V5 which is now part of the symbian foundation and has gone open source. This means its very cheap for users to make apps for it.
The main difference is that users cant develop app and send it round for people to install......just like the err SDK certs was on older windows mobile - you couldnt install somehting unless it was signed! It is posisble to sign apps for your own device but you have to spend 10 mins researching. Easy really.
So this N97 has S60 V5 which is a touch smartphone OS based upon all that Symbian has learned throughout S60 V1 V2 V3 and UIQ....
So when I found out that the N97 was running the SAME CHIPSET! OMAP 2420 with a faster processor and NO DEDICATED 3D chip!!! I WAS SHOCKED!!
In some ways it seems like its a step back from previous gen with the Power VR chips.....
So after investigation I found that the Samsung i8910 Onmia HD actually is the REAL world evolution of the N95. It is running OMAP 3 not 2 and has a FULL power VR SGX chip (same chip as IPony 3 G S. Which might be a pale comparision of the OMnia HD - I have not played with one yet....
The omnia HD also runs S60 V5 (same as Nokia 5800 and N97)
I think this OS is going to be a very very big contender over the next year.
The main selling point of the N97 is that it has full functionality out of the Box.
It comes with proper facebook support and social networking apps that all sit on the home page. All easy to access and very swish...
It has proper keyboard and all the old N series reasons to keep - Carl ziess optics with a proper camera......proper music player with inline remote.
Its also not bloated OS so will have plenty of multimedia power....
If someone seriously offered me a touch pro 2 or a N97 the N97 would be first choice. Why would I want a nice phone, nice screen substandard MP3 player some stupid adapter - no 3.5 jack. No decent camera....mutimedia playback which is less powerfull than my old i900 omnia......
Then on top of that, using HelloX you crack the N97 and customise to your hearts desire. Download install what you want, rip it chop it hack it.......
2 years ago I would laugh at someone telling me that they would get a Nokia over HTC. I would say - yeah go get a expensive brick that cant do anything.....
Now days the simple facts - 3.5 jack, similar fully customisable OS and installable apps, proper camera.....all sell it to me. Gotta be slightly blind to think Nokia dont deserve some kudos for their devices - even if they cocked up a bit with N96 and now potentially N97 without Omap 3 and Power VR
Palm pre and iphone 3g S and Samsung i8910 are the beasties to watch!
well said ^^^^. Though i think My old touch is more customizable. And yes palm pre, and new omnia range rocks.
yarod.. it is less laggy?? because my experience from the s60s .. n82 etc is somewhat not so good
Symbian is really similar to Windows Mobile - an OS from the dark ages.
But they've shown a lot better progress and growth since the launch of the iPhone than Windows Mobile.
yeah, I remember everybody being jealous about 7650 all these years ago. Multitasking and copy&paste. See, it took apple over 2 years to add these. I stopped to like symbian just after the new version being released (few apps, first phones were slow, etc.) So sold my 3230 and got myself Wizard.
They lost it few years ago and now catching on again, but I fell in love with these crappy htc devices, windows and that messing around :]
yarod_g14 (or anyone), Does Symbian have anything like bluetooth mono for their devices? This is what I would miss the most if I were to switch to the n97. As much as I like how the Omnia Pro sounds, I think I'll be getting a tilt screen, so that means the TP2 or the N97.
Hmmm The N97 may well be a good device but it's still missing soo much. The default browser has no copy and paste from a web page and as we speak you have the choice of opera MINI or the rather painful safari which has to be said is useless at caching pages...wait wait and wait some more and thats just to view a page you looked at not 2minutes earlier! Again as we speak, you cannot view different video formats..I certainly wouldn't pay 500pounds for a device that can't play .mpg, xvid etc ok I know coreplayer will arrive but still!! Then that all conquering n97 has a terrible office suite..show me a symbian app with even 10percent of softmakers functionality. Symbian apps are in the lightweight category. The user accessible RAM seems on the low side too. Symbian in it's current state is too closed...very little quality freeware and users cannot fix os flaws. I do dig the design though....
"I think this OS is going to be a very very big contender over the next year."
The biggest problem with Symbian when I had my N95 is that apps weren't back compat. Symbian v2 apps wouldn't work on V3 and vice-versa.
I also had the N95 and the N95 8GB. Although Symbian is OK it's not as fast and bug free as you make it out to be. The N95 constantly crashed, rebooted, gave me "sim not inserted" errors. Sometimes it lagged and was slow. This was consistant in all symbain devices I had, N70, N73, N80, N95 and N95 8GB.
To the OP. I don't know weather you're American or not but Nokia is BIG in Europe hence the hype of the N97. Nokia are THE mobile phone company to be honest. They've been around for donkeys years and introduced a whole load of concepts to the mainstream... Changeable Fascias, Cheap Colour Screens, WAP on the 3330. Also IMO they were the first company to bring a Smart Phone into the Mainstream. Before they early Nokia Symbian phones all there was was Windows Mobile and that was Business Orientated.
What are your thoughts about the new Nokia N900 that comes with the Maemo OS? It comes with a good 600 mhz processor and it has a capacitive touch screen. Maemo seems to be more stable than Windows mobile and it can also handle a native full skype client. Probably a VOIP comunication using this Nokia N900 will work much better...
The downside probably is that there are not too many applications for Maemo yet, but it is an open source OS, so it seems promising...
What are your thoughts?
It look good but I´ll stay with HTC and WM for now
Promising devices are coming!
Saludos,
I thought hard about the N900 and had it on pre order.
Somehow I ended up with an Acer neoTouch...don't know exactly what happened in between
The Acer neo touch seems good but the battery seems like too small for a 1 ghz processor...
The Nokia N900 has a 600 mhz processor but running with Maemo which looks like a lighter and faster OS. Also, the capacitive touch screen is much better for a phone when you are on the go. Plus it is a Nokia and it should be good quality.
Evolution.....?
Guys n girls, - quick addition - 99.9% sure its resistive touch screen peeps.....
My advice......
Don't overlook this beast.
This is seriously the missing link. Bare with me with my slight rant below, it is going somewhere.....
Many many of us XDA'ers never even had a snff of Nokias last generation winners, the N95 and n95 8GB as we had our heads buried in the HTC sand.
Not bad sand to be in really IMO but I was SO glad that I took the jump and got a N95 8Gb to compliment my HTC Ameo (and fit in jeans pocket...etc)
The Carl zeiss lensed camera, the music play back ability - dedicated buttons (lol a 3.5 Jack) the Power VR graphics chip (with PROPER drivers for Fs sake) and ease of use + a bevy of applications that I presumed were only on Windows mobile......
Good web browsers
core player - using the chipset....
last FM and EVERYTHING you would want made this device the best bit of kit of its generation.
The OS, s60 V3 - although not as hackable as Win mo at first was opened up by hackers.......themes, transitions, full access to all files in device. It was all there. The N95 with its OMAP 2xxxx platform and full open GL 1 support was the best device of its generation. Even now, I use it with my work sim and always stuff it in my bag....
After the N95 Nokia released the N96 which was the same hardware - minus the PowerVr chip and with TV tuner - not EU comliant, added OS extension, Nokia F8ck*d it up big time with that device. It was not an update to the n95 but a side step.
Then, S60 V5 was anounced - now being spouted as Symbian ^1
Nokia offered the 5800 and the n97 as the first devices on this platform. In the same vien however as the N96 - OMAP 2xxx platform - NO Graphic acceleration - i.e. No PowerVR chip for me and many others, this was still not a successor to N95.
Samsung one upped them with their i8910 (Omnia HD) this was running the newest TI specced platform - very suprisingly not using a samsung processor but still running the TI OMAP 3430 platform with Arm Cortex A8 and Power VR supporting Open GLEs 2.0
ooo - that got me excited, with its 720P video and capacative touch screen, I HAD to have this device. So I bought one, good kit, bad platform.
Sony have just done the same thing with their Satio, S60 V5 with Omap 3430 (and a very good camera)
But where were Nokia in this? Where was their answer? What were they doing? N97 is popular but pretty lame really. (only 128 ram!!)
Then the Meamo powered N900 was announced.
I didnt know that Nokia had released previous Linux powered Maemo devices, I definitely didnt know that this was in any way a remotely popular platfiorm but the comunities are there already and growing quickly.
Maemo as an open linux platform, seems to be the best thing for us users who are constantly looking for a mobile Win XP replacement.
I am under the impression that it will be MUCH easier for applications that have been developed for Linux to be ported over to this platform than has ever been seen on a Desktop to mobile conversion route - regardless of platform.
The N900 is running Omap 3430 - full open GL es 2.0,
There is a proper camera (thanks Nokia) and o wow, resistive touch screen - !!!
So no multitouch - but hello accuracy and handwriting recognition
The Omap 3430 and supporting chips in this device seem to outperfrom the Qualcomm Snapdragon evuivalent being used in the HTC Leo and the big Toshiba brick (Tg01) not by much really, they are both good platforms.
Now I love my Omnia HD - there isnt a better small media playback and recording device for me - not that small. It will play any 1Gb DIVX movie I throw at it and LOL - it plays Quake 3 with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard like my old P3 with a Geforce 4 in it....and the TV out is outstanding.
The issue - its not a mobile PC like my Touch pro 2 or my ameo or at a guess like the Leo or Toshiba.....
I cant use a mouse and keyboard to give me a PC experience whilst on TV - or monitor out. Task manager is wrong, there is no task bar to select things.....you have to hold the device to get the working feel of it.
I am under the impression that the n900 will bridge this gap between hand held device and PC and it will bring the niceness that is Nokia Innovation with it.
My wish would be to LOLOL, see a section opened up on XDA developers for the N900 and - the best bit would be if Nokia gave away a big bunch of devices say 1000 to the best of the best on here to get the topic all hot and steamy.
- Then I could leave my mansion and get in my porcsh next to that slag from Transformers and go to the whitehouse.
Huba huba
end of drooling rant over n900.
Maemo will not have the great support of XDA and that is a good reason for stay with WM and HTC
Just my opinion,
I have been following the development of the N900 closely for a while now, simply because it blew my mind.
Unfortunately it was postponed and now it's postponed for another three weeks in Sweden. No more waiting for me because I wont be able to fully enjoy it until the highly anticipated Xperia X10 hits the market.
I have to say I'm tempted by the N900. Up until now I was totally convinced my next device would be WinMo. Here are the pro's and con's for my usage pattern:
In my opinion what speaks for HD2:
Huge screen; fast processor; very slick looking interface; runs all the software I want, most notably the MLO outliner and backs it up on the PC,connects to my SonyEricsson BT watch (thanks moneytoo!) which displays caller id, rss feeds, sms's, mails, enables answering mails with a pre-set message with push of a button without having to take the phone out etc (some 40 or so functions run from the watch); can run Garmin XT which to me is the best GPS software out there due partly to the user community in South America updating Garmin maps almost weekly (which can be extremely valuable); the largest user community base in XDA-developers (with 1.9M members, close to 260K active members, over 4M posts in 323K threads), edits all MS Office programs
Against:
Capacitive screen, not fully flash enabled browser (?), not as good camera, no webcam, no VGA-out, only 16k colors, expensive; not as pliable and adaptable - will get older quicker than the N900, I suspect.
What speaks for the N900
The N900 obviously has way better browser/webaccess, has a frontal cam that works for chatting at least between Nxx0 units, and possibly with PC's as well (it works on the N8xx, which are older devices, but it may be blocked by the service provider on the N900, this is an unknown yet, if it does work, though it's a huge plus, to me) a better, and protected rear cam, better video filming and, possibly, playback, 32 gb of internal memory, vga out, runs Open Office; I would hope it has better phone and sound quality, but don't know;resistive screen viewable in sunlight afaik (I prefer resistive as it allows for handwriting and precision), 16M colors, ability to run Debian based software - although I have no idea whether that software will do anything useful for me, more colors on screen
Negative on the N900:
the biggest drawback is it doesn't run some key software I'm dependent on, such as a really capable outliner like MLO, enabling multiple contexts with backup on a pc, afaik [anyone with suggestions for a solution are welcome, I've looked into NoteKeeper but it's not quite there, yet]; another biggie poor GPS apps that in addition requires full on connection to work afaik - although I hear that today Nov 13, Sygic released a version for Maemo - but I would prefer Garmin for the SouthAmerican maps; I know this may seem minor to most users, but it doesn't hook up to my SonyEricsson BT watch which is a nice gadget and support to the mobile; doesn't [yet] allow editing of MS suite documents; doesn't play FLAC files; smaller screen; and although the Maemo.org user community is very helpful, it's smaller than XDA, and most of its 38000 active users seem to be hardcore Linux programmers, and I'm not sure I can speak there "language," whereas I've been hanging around XDA to understand at least hardSPL, ROMs etc.
I'm no programmer, not even really a superuser of any of these. N900 shows a lot of promise on the software side, but will it be fulfilled? It will probably improve more over time than the HD2.
An alternative would be the Acer neoTouch, as it is WinMo and has a resistive screen, but then it doesn't enjoy XDA-support (although there is a small user group on here anyway).
I have to apologize for what I said about the N900 having a capacitive screen. I am dissapointed now that I know that the N900 has a resistive screen. I find the capacitive screens better for a phone considering that these devices have to be used only with fingers and on the go, specially with just one hand only.
I see that the HD2 has a capacitive screen and comes with a native WM 6.5... Is it a tendency? I mean, Is WM 6.5 supposedly designed more for a capacitive screen instead of a resistive one? Maybe this is Microsoft's intention... Everybody says WM 6.5 is more fingers friendly, then it should come with a capacitive screen... So, maybe in the near future, all WM phones will come with 6.5+ OS and capacitive screens like the HD2 which is now the first one to start this tendency.
The N900 doesnt have a Garmin application yet, but there is one for Symbian, so maybe there will be one for Maemo in the future.
Is Maemo as hackable as WinMo is?
hgrimberg said:
I see that the HD2 has a capacitive screen and comes with a native WM 6.5... Is it a tendency? I mean, Is WM 6.5 supposedly designed more for a capacitive screen instead of a resistive one? Maybe this is Microsoft's intention... Everybody says WM 6.5 is more fingers friendly, then it should come with a capacitive screen... So, maybe in the near future, all WM phones will come with 6.5+ OS and capacitive screens like the HD2 which is now the first one to start this tendency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far the HD2 is the only WM6.5 phone with a capacitive screen, I think. WM7 and onwards are likely to ship on phones with capacitive screens, but WM6.5 devices will generally still be resistive.
my next device will be the n900. its in a different league with that OS.
So if it seems that WM is moving towards the capacitive screens with WM 7 then it is silly to buy now a phone with WM 6.5 with a resistive screen that a year from now or less we all will want to switch to WM 7 and it wont be possible because of our hardware limitation... If this is the case, we will better wait for a WM phone with capacitive screen and WM 6.5 like the HD2 or one with a sliding keyboard (that doesn't exist yet).
It seems that Microsoft ended up with the conclusion that a capacitive screen with multitouch, like the iphone, is better and more practical for a phone. That is probably why they are calling their OS, Windows phone now and they are trying to move away from the idea of calling their devices a PDA...
The N900 looks very promising but I can't understand why Nokia is not aware of this tendency and comes up with a resistive screen now.
hgrimberg said:
So if it seems that WM is moving towards the capacitive screens with WM 7 then it is silly to buy now a phone with WM 6.5 with a resistive screen that a year from now or less we all will want to switch to WM 7 and it wont be possible because of our hardware limitation... If this is the case, we will better wait for a WM phone with capacitive screen and WM 6.5 like the HD2 or one with a sliding keyboard (that doesn't exist yet).
It seems that Microsoft ended up with the conclusion that a capacitive screen with multitouch, like the iphone, is better and more practical for a phone. That is probably why they are calling their OS, Windows phone now and they are trying to move away from the idea of calling their devices a PDA...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no guarantee that even the HD2 will receive an official WM7 upgrade when WM7 launches. WM7 could well be a year away; and I don't think the original Touch HD got an official upgrade to 6.5. HTC isn't very interested in offering compelling upgrades for discontinued phones, they'll want you to upgrade to the HD3 instead!
Of course there will likely be an unofficial upgrade in the form of a custom ROM someone here on XDA produces; but the same may well apply to resistive-screen devices.
IMHO i hope that Nokia will release after this N900 a similar E-series device, simply because they're made better of N-series and others.
Don't you think that Maemo could be compared to Android, not as OS but as way of thought?
Hope I get myself understood and thanks to all who write very helpful informations on this forum.
P.s. I had Nokia N70 ---> HTC P3600 and then i came back to symbian with N95 8gb, only because of better phone features.
think it's nice enough that nokia goes from symbian to a linux flavour but
doubt they can make it they should have gon android and modded it like motorola droid and htc's devices
the android app store is only getting bigger and doubt nokia can get enough developers their way
It is very important to be aware that there are only 2 OS's in this world that have a native Skype client with full VOIP features. These are the Windows Mobile operating system and Maemo. Android only has Skype lite, same as Symbian and in a way, same as Blackberry with iskoot.
Why is this? Hardware limitations or just agreements between phone manufacturers and telecomunications companies?
It seems that Google also had an agreement with Skype to not develop a client for their OS to not upset the telecomunication companies... Instead, they developed Google talk that works the same way as Skype lite by calling you back and using your GSM minutes.
The Nokia N series, like the N810 Tablet is not very famous probably because the cell phone carries almost never had it as part of their offers most likely because it was the only Nokia phone that was able to handle VOIP through skype which terrifies the telecomunication companies. The Nokia N900 will probably end up the same way. It is smaller in size than the N810 but it has a Maemo OS that can handle a full skype client.
seems a lot of people dont really understand much about android or how its designed/implemented. may i help inform you by pointing you to this valuable read:
http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPu...achFile&do=get&target=Mythbusters_Android.pdf (http://www.embeddedlinuxconference.com/elc_europe09/sessions.html#Porter)
take note peeps.
orb3000 said:
Maemo will not have the great support of XDA and that is a good reason for stay with WM and HTC
Just my opinion,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. XDA is the greatest asset HTC has.
I've been hanging 'round the N900 www.maemo.org talk forum because I'm seriously considering the N900. The XDA community certainly seems to be a much more friendly place for newbies.
The attitude among some (definitely not all) of the maemo.org talk members is like "well unless you master command line then this phone is not for you." For an example, check the second comment in this thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35625
Their attitude results in little battles between themselves and newbies (and there will probably be a lot of newbies on that forum) in the discussion threads.
In addition as it is a developer centric community for an open platform, there's a structured work flow approach to support the open source development which newcomers have to understand.
I believe XDA is a more mature community and went through the growing pains a long time ago.
I had an n810. trust me the hype is not necessary for maemo. i am much happier with my lg incite that i ever was with my n810. also wtf is with nokia expecting me to pay for their gps software that came preloaded. also the bluetooth never worked correctly. but i have to say i really liked the build quality and the design of the outside of the n810
josefcrist said:
I had an n810. trust me the hype is not necessary for maemo. i am much happier with my lg incite that i ever was with my n810. also wtf is with nokia expecting me to pay for their gps software that came preloaded. also the bluetooth never worked correctly. but i have to say i really liked the build quality and the design of the outside of the n810
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apart from the BT never working correctly, and paying for software, say some more about the maemo tablet user experience. They certainly seem to have their following.