Database Info

HTCClassAction.org - Intel Xscale VS Qualcomm MSM7200 (ATOM V vs T.DUAL,TYTN2,KS20)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T4UY-8kG_w
compare of ATOM V with Intel chip while the rest HTC Tytn II/Touch Dual/LG KS20 with qualcomm.
playing back the same video file on memory card at the same time but you can see that ATOM V with intel (marvell) performance better.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39029453,49296230,00.htm
Knowing what i now know, about all the issues and the crap support from HTC, I regret purchasing my touch cruise. If I could go back in time, I would definately get the atom V. Oh well. Heindsight is always 20/20.

I think this is so skewed/biased.
I've got the 8525 and using BetaPlayer and can play smooth converted movies flawlessly. Without tweaking or optimizing Betaplayer, I can duplicate the stop/start effect. Yes, there are some tweaks that needs to be done, but BetaPlayer needs to be optimized for each PDA device it's installed on -just like everyone needs to adjust the seats on any rental car before they can feel comfortable in it.

myknyte said:
I think this is so skewed/biased.
I've got the 8525 and using BetaPlayer and can play smooth converted movies flawlessly. Without tweaking or optimizing Betaplayer, I can duplicate the stop/start effect. Yes, there are some tweaks that needs to be done, but BetaPlayer needs to be optimized for each PDA device it's installed on -just like everyone needs to adjust the seats on any rental car before they can feel comfortable in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T2j9snCPPk
This another link by tatsdiy compare of INTEL vs SAMSUNG
O2 Zinc with yr 8525 aka HTC Hermes playing back same video also while zinc intel chip with speed step managed to run the video even at 312mhz while hermes cant perform well with its samsung 400mhz

Intel > qualcomm, samsung...
just from my own experience with using devices built on those chipsets, I can tell you that it's true..I had an apache (samsung 400mhz), currently have a touch cruise (qualcomm msm7200 400 mhz), and have used intel based ppcs before as well. The qualcomm chips are definately garbage, and are at the bottom of the barrel. The apache, I miss...I think it's def. faster than the touch cruise. I guess I regret my purchase :|
But as for the intel ones go, I would have to say that I think theyre better than both of those...just from using it for a little while..just normal email, web, etc. apps..no benchmarks, just personal opinon though.

Asus Glaxy7 - 800x480 Omnia competitor?

Hey guys
anyone know anything or heard about this device which is alledgedly due for release in October? Anyone used Asus devices? Are they good quality? Seems to be exactly what I'm after (Omnia with a proper screen)
http://wmpoweruser.com/?tag=asus-glaxy7
GSM Connectivity : GPRS/EDGE/3G/HSDPA/HAUPA
GSM Frequency : 850/900/1800/1900
WCDMA Frequency: 900/1900/2100 (Sorry US readers )
Screen: 3.5 “WVGA 800X480 / 65K Color TFT
System: Microsoft WM 6.1 Professional
UI: Glide 1.5
Camera: 5MP (2592×1944px) from autofocus
Video: MPEG4, H.264 encoding & decoding - resolution unknown
Communications: Bluetooth 2.0, Wifi, USB
aGPS
Audio: AAC, AMR-NB, AMR-WB, EVRC, QCELP, AAC + + EAAC, MP3, MIDI, PCM, WAV
Working time:
Standby : 200 hours
Talk time: 4 hours
Memory: 4GB flash
Expansion: microSD
Dimensions: 115×59x13.8mm
Tracking ball
Accelerometer
Construction: stainless steel
Interesting eh?

Asus devices are of good quality, little worse then Samsung maybe though (I have both i900 and ASUS p525 now to compare).
As time goes on, better and better devices are announced. This one will be officially announced in October, so expect to be able to buy it around Christmas. At this time no doubt that some other better device will be announced from some other manufacturer, and so on

hehe yeah, as is all things with technology in them
This does finaly look like the device for me though
After some googling it looks like it will be released in October and not just announced .... i hope!

****, now I don`t know which one to get, this, touch hd or xperia.
if this has better video recording and playback I just might get this instead of Touch HD & Xperia.
Great phones coming for Santa`s bag

indeed, we seem to be overflowing with choice however, for me its simple.
Xperia, Touch HD == HTC manufactured so NO.
Omnia = odd and small screen res and apparently very buggy
So that leave me with the Asus.

That makes sense and I can see why
Tho I am leaning towards this piece of power, I`ll wait for the reviews

Monty Burns said:
indeed, we seem to be overflowing with choice however, for me its simple.
Xperia, Touch HD == HTC manufactured so NO.
Omnia = odd and small screen res and apparently very buggy
So that leave me with the Asus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen issues with HTC not providing proper drivers for their devices... What else do you have against HTC ? Do you think other manufacturers are really different ? I'm about to change my phone, so i'd like to have your advice about this...
Thanks

Hey
HTC hardware build quality is awefull in my experience. I have not had one HTC device that I have not had to return at least once. I treat my devices like the expensive equipment they are and do not keep them in pockets with objects such as keys or money etc.
Its a real shame as HTC design and specification is awesome, just they seem to use awefull and cheap components to build them.
I have a Toshiba G900 which is an awesome device but sadly lacks RAM and GPS. For these reason i did something I said I would never do and changed back to a HTC device - Touch Diamond (which is a downgrade on the awesome screen of the tosh) and without fail, the Diamond is letting me down. The coating on the top of the tempered glass is so easily scratched, its getting scratched by just putting in on a desk. The buttons have scratches, the back panel paint is wearing off and the bezel around the screen has what looks like a silver/metal patch showing through. All this I could expect from a device thats a year old - like my G900 - but not a one month old phone. Oh and the other BIG issue is that I cannot play music without a skip, pause or song chop! (this is all Touch Diamonds) This is not just my issue, everyone gets it, and if anyone says they don't, lots of us would like to know what your doing and how your doing it!!!!
I can only say that my Toshiba was excellent build quality but I cannot vouch for any other manufacturer, only to say that they can't be any worse than HTC!
p.s. remember, the X1 is being MADE by HTC and branded/customised by Sony, chances are, it will be rubbish build quality as well.
edit: the Driver issue is not just a HTC issue. For some reason lots of manu's put the Nvidia chipset into the devices and never actually "drive" it - including Toshiba. Just bizzare.

Does anybody know something about the cpu and ram?

http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1480
CPU 32bit Marvell PXA930
RAM 128
ROM is marked up at 4gig but I think they mean memory card. Not sure about the actual "rom" size.
Details are still sketchy and im not sure where PDADB got a lot of this from to be honest.

At this moment I've a HTC TyTN II, maybe this would be my new device too!
Since I've seen this device I'm doubt between the HTC Touch Pro and the Glaxy7. Should I miss the hardware keyboard? I'm still writing on the screen mostly because I forget my keyboard.
The Touch Pro has 288MB Ram vs the Glaxy7 with just 128MB, the Touch Pro has a keyboard, the Touch Pro has a bigger user community.
-click-
Other models I've been doubting but no go because:
- HTC Touch Diamond; no card slot
- HTC Touch HD; 25% more pixels but same cpu, only touchscreen no buttons, too big device?
- Samsung Omnia: too glossy for me, crappy case, no good experience with Samsung phones (no experience with their PPC's)
- Sony Ericsson: I'don't like the buttons of the keyboard, I was always a Ericsson fan (later SE) but with this don't know. Beside if I've to choose between the Touch Pro and the Xperia l'll choose the HTC. More RAM and bigger community.
The camera is for me no point to choose. At least, that would be my last point. It's reasonable the camera is one of the choosing facts. But remind that Windows Mobile isn't good with photo's.
E-ten has new devices too, but that is Acer. My experience with the Acer notebooks are not good. Cheap silly things!

your forgeting that the Glaxy has a 5mp camera as well.... this is important (at least to me)

Black-Rose said:
At this moment I've a HTC TyTN II, maybe this would be my new device too!
Since I've seen this device I'm doubt between the HTC Touch Pro and the Glaxy7. Should I miss the hardware keyboard? I'm still writing on the screen mostly because I forget my keyboard.
The Touch Pro has 288MB Ram vs the Glaxy7 with just 128MB, the Touch Pro has a keyboard, the Touch Pro has a bigger user community.
-click-
Other models I've been doubting but no go because:
- HTC Touch Diamond; no card slot
- HTC Touch HD; 25% more pixels but same cpu, only touchscreen no buttons, too big device?
- Samsung Omnia: too glossy for me, crappy case, no good experience with Samsung phones (no experience with their PPC's)
E-ten has new devices too, but that is Acer. My experience with the Acer notebooks are not good. Cheap silly things!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You forgot sony xperia.
+there should be some phones based on android, and some new phones with nvidia chips

Actually i don't want a suck CPU in my phone that make it slow enough for dialing, browser internet / photos and watching movie lagging same as an old-style projector in classroom.
Yes, the qualcomm having ATI Imageon, but also no HW support both 2d and 3d, so no VGA now.
If this machine really using intel cpu, this should be cool and the greatest PDA phone ever.

asus quality..
i used to have an asus p535 and it was one of the best pocket pcs that i owned.
it was very powerfull and it does not hang.
the built quality was excellent and the color does not peel because it is melted with the plastic itself.
the GPS was sirf III one of the best reciever in the world.
what i want to say is that asus products are very good but asus lacks the marketing touch to sell its products.
galaxy 7 will be a great device ,i am sure and i am looking forward for its release.

its good to hear from someone who has actually used a previous Asus PDA. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I must admit, i'm already sold on the Glaxy even though I am growing positivley towards my Diamond again - despite its poor hardware build quality.

Is this a new fashion? WVGA and WQVGA?
I like big screens, but I don't like software incompatibility...

My old (Now) G900 had an 800*480 screen and I only found issues with older versions of TomTom. Like it or not, I reckon this will become the new "standard" screen res and as such, people are/will develope code to handle it.

I have been using a Samsung Omnia for a few weeks now, and previously I used an Asus P525 for a little over 1 year. I still have the P525 (keeping it as spare).
Build quality: Asus is top notch as far as I am concerned, on par with my previous SE phones (P800,P900). High quality material all around on the P525.
Omnia is not bad at all, although the plastic case and back will get scratched quite fast, I think. There have been a number of complaints about Omnia units having to be returned for some sort or other hardware problem. Difficult to evaluate how serious it is as you only hear from the people having problems, not those that have not had any.
Software: This is where I think the Omnia is weak at this point in time: there are still a number of bugs in the OS (some major, some minor), whereas the P525 was rock solid (went from WM5 to WM6 no problem). Is it a result of rushing to market ? Nonetheless, Samsung is releasing ROM updates just about every month, so they are certainly trying... Flashing an Omnia is not an easy (or safe) process (no booloader method found to date), and a hardware initiated hard reset is very difficult to achieve (the only time I really had to use it it took me 30 minutes of button pushing to finally initiate the Hard Reset).
If the upcoming Galaxy7 is anything like my P525 and has the right specifications, and Samsung does not clear up a certain number of things that are important to me, I may very well switch.
My 2 cents...

"WCDMA Frequency: 900/1900/2100 (Sorry US readers )"
so it works in 1900umts in USA 3G, right?
i know it should works, but i just want to make sure. haha

Qualcomm - numbers, promises and lies

Well, we know the under-performing WM devices with qualcomm CPU, especially when coming to graphics. For example the MSM7200(A) & MSM7201A devices, such as: HTC Touch Pro, HTC Diamond, HTC HD, HTC TyTN II, etc
Reading different docs from qualcomm:
QUALCOMM provides wide range of best-in-class integrated
graphics solutions with the MSM7200 comparable to the DS
or PSP
APIs Accelerated: OpenGL ES 1.0 Common + some OpenGL ES 1.1, Direct 3D Mobile, SM2, JSR 184, BREW Render2D, Direct Draw, GDI
“Qualcomm Announces Highly Integrated Dual-CPU Single Chip Solutions for High-Performance Multimedia Wireless Devices”
“The 7xxx series addresses the growing consumer demand for higher-performance wireless devices delivering high-quality audio-visual and 2D/3D gaming”
“Very high performance 2D and 3D graphics, and video encode and decode support”
Peak performance: 3D: 4M TRIS /SEC, 2D: 133M PIXELS /SEC
Source:
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2003/press1217.html
http://sakajati.com/download/?nav=display&file=70
You can see how pathetic performs such a qualcomm device here: http://www.youtube.com/sergiowmo . You can find many videos where I've tested different games. They say that the graphics is comparable with PSP.. just look at the emulators comparison.
Where is the promised graphics performance?
Can this company be sued because of these notorious lies?
I'm starting to hate this company more & more (qualcomm). I don't care if htc has to pay for drivers, etc. They should provide what they promise. And anyway TP, Diamond comes with openGL HW drivers.. and let's be real, the performance is extremly poor in comparison to other HW-enabled devices (older devices, devices with lower CPU).
What irritates me more is the high graphics performance Qulacomm is advertising and in reality perform so badly. In other words I hate when someone is misleading and lying such way.. Just thinking at PSP (PlayStationPortable) comparison..

I learned my lesson with the HTC Touch Dual, the models of the brand are beatifull, but slow and dumb, like that crazy blond you will always stay away from, in the future.

It's not qualcomms fault, the devices might be capable of this performance, but it's HTCs fault, which refused to pay for drivers.

But the latest htc devices DOES have driver for 3D graphics. They have OpenGL hardware libraries and I'm really not satisfied with the 3D performance.
I've already seen this excuse so many times.. but ALL WM the devices that are using Qualcomm CPU are worse. Other vendors such as LG, TOSHIBA. All those companies haven't payed for the drivers? There's something in the middle..
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare....tege&D2=HTC P4550 TyTN II (Kaiser)&D3=LG KS20
What's with this qualcomm crap policy? Haven't heard anything like this from Marvell, to promise something and in reality to be something else.
The 2D graphics aren't hardware accelerated indeed.. at least this is how it looks..
@twolf Samsung Omnia looks good and it's fast and smart too, thanks to the Marvell CPU. Unfortunately there's no OpenGL support .

Excellent thread. Just a couple of things to bear in mind though:
- There are developers working on graphics here.
- The Mobinnova ICE and LG Incite are both said to have the same processor as the SE X1 Xperia, Touch Diamond, Touch Pro and the HD, i.e. the Qualcomm MSM7201A 528Mhz processor. Hence we should wait for reports from owners of these devices to see if any drivers have come to fruition. The reason I say this is because in the past, it seems some drivers were taken from the LG KS20 (same MSM7200 400Mhz processor as TytN 2, Touch Cruise, Touch Dual and Sprint CDMA Touch) in the past for the aforementioned.
However, this is an important thread, so please keep it going, unless Qualcomm can clearly not be brought to account here.

DSF said:
@twolf Samsung Omnia looks good and it's fast and smart too, thanks to the Marvell CPU. Unfortunately there's no OpenGL support .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was playing around with an Omnia at the local Verizon Wireless store [only US carrier to offer it], and I was really f**kin impressed! The camera was as responsive as a good digital, and the screen/mouse combo is beautiful!

I am not an expert but I am totally agree withthe disapointing qualcomm...
Just let´s hope that HTC has noticed this and take it in mind for the next generation of 09 models just about to launch!
Great thread!

@nuke1 I've read that topic, but no resolution yet. Also, many people are benchmarking using diffrend D3D drivers, which is wrong, because that benchmark tool is using OpenGL not D3D (which is only a wrapper for OpenGL, D3D<=>OpenGL).
So.. we have 3D hardware accelerated drivers.. (unlike previous HTC devices, such as TyTN II) but we got poor performance.. I really would like to trust that porting the drivers from another device (eg: LG Incinte) will improve the (3d/2d) graphics experience on our phones.
@orb3000, actually they will continue the partnership with qualcomm, HTC is very proud of their colaboration, CEO Peter Chou said something like:
"qualcomm is one of our top very important ??? partnership ..
and i believe that this partnership will continue to go the next 10-20 years"
See http://www.qualcomm.com/who_we_are/success/index.htm#/HTC-video/ .
So, HTC seems preety happy with qualcomm solution.. yeah, i know that qualcomm provide a chipset (SoC) implementing various function, such as and not limited to: cpu, gpu, gps, wireless ...
Thanks guy for your support. Now let's spread to a global scale! I had enough of qualcomm lies or whateva.
@NotATreoFan I really hope that Samsung will focus on more powerfull WM devices and get ride of the damn proprietary connectors! Samsung really has potential.

I totally support this thread.
I bought my Diamond with a 528MHz CPU. This means, that this phone has to have a power of 528MHz CPU equipped phone. And I don't care how it will be done, and whether it will be in next models. Tbh I would feel screwed if they used the CPU in a better way in upcoming phones.
Also I wonder why we have 3D acceleration, but no 2D? Anyways, I feel we have some kind of 2D slowdown. My previous smart phone was a Siemens SX1 (S60, Symbian 6.1, 120MHz OMAP CPU, released in 2003 or 2004, 176*208 res). I was able to play fluent Sega Master System (SMS Plus S60, free and excellent) games with sound, nearly-perfectly fluent Picodrive (no sound for S60, some frameskip but no close to Touch Pro vids on youtube) and well, playable GBA (vBagX trial, commercial). Picodrive is not tested, Sega Master System via morphgear (atleast the trial) is less fluent, and GBA via PocketGBA has too much frameskip. And please don't tell it is everything because screen is X times bigger. Architecture of CPU should be better. Come on, we have also a CPU to emulate, sound, input... And I am pretty sure SX1's OMAP had no graphics chip inside.

Just wanted to jump in and make a quick small comment:
I have a vogue, it is terrible (speed, graphic performance etc..)
I also have android on that vogue, and when using android things are SSOOOO much smoother it blows my mind, and makes me realize how much is truly the fault of another MS crap product.
In android I can flick that screen to scroll in the browser and it is so smooth with never a single hiccup or anything of the sort...
My 2 cents,
Jim.

That's one of thereasons why SONY broke up with HTC
I guess SONY will continue to move on over the WinMo platform, maybe with another partnership with another company (ASUS?)
HTC should be worried now that SONY is in town
I bet we will start to see better devices as the second generation Xperia soon
An after having the tytn, diamond, etc, I can confirm the XPERIA performance blows away them all, OMG no comparison here: it's a step further

here is what the Iphone can do on an ARM based CPU running at 400Mhz with hardware accelerated graphics. notice the framerate (smoothness).
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/need-for-speed-iphone
it disgusts me that the 528Mhz Qualcomm chip that has 3D acceleration (but no working drivers) relies on the CPU core to do all the "desktop" windows drawing and even 3D (unless you hacked drivers).

Two things!
1. CPU or GPU overload?
Today I did a small test. I thought that if the CPU is overloaded any more load will slow down the emulator. So I fired up WMP with a MP3 and the emu. I felt no slowdown at all.
Don't forget we don't drivers for CPU. We need them for GPU.
2. HTC/Qualcomm vs math
MSM7201A can render 133000000 pixels a second.
A fluent gameplay is 60 fps.
By dividing 133M by 60 we get 2216666 frames each 1/60th a second.
VGA screen is 640*480 pixels = 307200.
So how much screens we can fill during 1/60 of a second? Let's see... 2216666 / 307200 = 7.215709635 screens to fill.
Where we lose 6 screens?

p3ngwin said:
here is what the Iphone can do on an ARM based CPU running at 400Mhz with hardware accelerated graphics. notice the framerate (smoothness).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the industry favorite 3D powered by PowerVR from Imagination Technologies. If you look at most of the great performing 3D out there right now (N95, etc), it's usually has PowerVR components in it or Nvidia, NOT ATI.
It also helps they optimized the drivers in the system end-to-end (instead of optimizing for TouchFlo), and it's not using HTC nor Qualcomm.

NuShrike said:
That's the industry favorite 3D powered by PowerVR from Imagination Technologies. If you look at most of the great performing 3D out there right now (N95, etc), it's usually has PowerVR components in it or Nvidia, NOT ATI.
It also helps they optimized the drivers in the system end-to-end (instead of optimizing for TouchFlo), and it's not using HTC nor Qualcomm.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they have different graphics hardware, yet we should be getting an experience that is at LEAST recognizable as in the same graphics ballpark as opposed to the pathetic sorry state we have now.

p3ngwin said:
here is what the Iphone can do on an ARM based CPU running at 400Mhz with hardware accelerated graphics. notice the framerate (smoothness).
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/need-for-speed-iphone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah yes... need for speed mobile.. i need an fruit phone now!!

Oh yeah how great it is. I understand graphics are really great but controls are tragic. Playing this using accelerometer must be a pain. I played asphalt gt racing on iphone and I turned it off after 2 minutes (I'm surprised that I lasted this long trying to play it).
If apple want to make iPhone good for mobile gaming give it some psychical button or help guys working on iControlPad with it and release it ASAP.
For now iPhone is nice graphics but lacks at control.

Unluckily all phone manufacturers (including HTC) seem to get rid of d-pads.
What you got in Diamond is barely useful. Up/down is good, left/right is usable only with one hand if you want to be fast (left hand for right, and right hand for left), and the center button is easy to press.
back to topic: thanks to Qualcomm even if we had awesome joysticks we wouldn't be able to play better games with them.

If you know how to use dpad on TD it gets quite nice.
Besides poor dpad is better than no dpad, at least you don't have to twist your arms like madman trying to turn when playing games like need for speed or asphalt racing

Wishmaster89 said:
If you know how to use dpad on TD it gets quite nice.
Besides poor dpad is better than no dpad, at least you don't have to twist your arms like madman trying to turn when playing games like need for speed or asphalt racing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Poor dpad is inexcusable on a $800 device. You also must be a horrible Wipeout player.

Am i the only one who thinks the tp2 is disapointing?

Hear me out.
It looks nice enough but im a owner of a x1 which i think looks better, but this is not my point.
I look at the specs of my x1:
288mb ram (ram on gpu - but never proven)
512mb rom
480 - 800 wvga 3.0" screen
3.2mp camera
wm 6.1
qualcomm msm 7200a cpu (528mhz arm 11 core + 256mhz arm 9 core)
1500mah battery
+ all the standard stuff
now the tp2 specs
288mb ram
512mb rom
480 - 800 wvga 3.6" screen
3.2mp camera
wm 6.1 (with free upgrade to 6.5)
qualcomm msm 7201a cpu (528mhz arm 11 core. not sure if it has second core???)
1500mah battey
--------------------------------------------------
To me the specs are almost the same and by the time the tp2 gets release it would be about 9 months after the x1. Dont u think the specs should have been a lot better?

Well although they may look the same on paper, the Diamond2 (essentially the same as the Pro2 software, processor and GPU wise), scored extremely high on core player's benchmarks, especially compared to the XPERIA. Go here to read more. And in addition, I think HTC made leaps and bounds with tweaking its newer devices and TF3D (probably the same stuff the fine folks at XDA have been doing for years) to make them much faster, despite having almost the same hardware.
Plus, the tilting screen is a huge plus for me. The Kaiser, with its beautiful tilting screen, is admittedly my first Windows Mobile device, so now I kind of expect a tilting display (I'm spoiled now). I think HTC may be including real, fast, uncrippled GPU drivers this time, so the devices will be faster like they are (NOT CONFIRMED, just my own suspicion). And I believe the processor has a second core, simply because I'm pretty sure all of the Qualcomm MSM7xxx processors do. So IMHO I think it's a little better than the X1 because of its speed and its bigger screen, although I've never owned an XPERIA so I don't know for sure.
Dave

They could have, at the very least used a 5MP camera, but then... I think they'd reason out that it's not the main reason you're buying HTC.

it better have drivers or i am seriously thinking my next phone will be a toshiba with a 1ghz snapdragon cpu.
I just hate that the touch pro 2 does not have a dpad or softkeys.

x1 has bad benchmarks because it has really bad drivers. as far as touchflo goes thats software that and device can have. (as the new touchflo in the tp2 has been cooked into a rom and cab form for the x1 and touch hd).
i cant see how they can release a product 9 months after and just twick the hardware a bit and the ask for the £500.
im waiting for a phone with a bit jump in specs

The TP2 is better, but not by much at all, so I am either going to go with the Toshiba TG01, SE Idou, or Omnia HD.

Well
At least is the best option to upgrade from Universal
Is not the best for sure but it´s something imprivement
Otherwise wait to december and you´ll see the new 2010 models!

josefcrist said:
it better have drivers or i am seriously thinking my next phone will be a toshiba with a 1ghz snapdragon cpu.
I just hate that the touch pro 2 does not have a dpad or softkeys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly like me. The biggest thing I hate in the TP2 is the old and slow CPU. The 1 GHz Snapragon is SO much faster. I've tested it in the TG01 myself and found it EXCELLENT - see my MWC articles if interested.
Come on, HTC, it's 2009 - the TG01 was already in working order in February (again, I've tested it myself at MWC), why couldn't you put the same Snapdragon in your phones?!

tegra chip + android = perfect touch pro 2

josefcrist said:
it better have drivers or i am seriously thinking my next phone will be a toshiba with a 1ghz snapdragon cpu.
I just hate that the touch pro 2 does not have a dpad or softkeys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree!

To answer the thread initiators question - DEFINITELY NOT!
Snapdragon got it all sewn up for me. (Toshiba's TG01 K01 Anybody?)

agree, I'm looking forward to a powerful device with Snapdragon! and it looks like toshiba will have it out many months a head of the ever sooo slow htc.

Device with Snapdragon is powerful, but without d-pad and other buttons is unuseful. Fast CPU is not enough. I have Touch HD and this device is nice, but very uncomfortable and hard to control :-(...

I'm actually dumping my X1 because I hate the keyboard, but I'll probably get a Fuze before the Touch Pro 2 comes out to hold me.

Fastest & Most Responsive VGA PPC Phone?

Hi everyone,
I was just wondering what are the fastest & most responsive VGA-screen PPC Phones out there (or coming by end 2009)? I quantify performance in terms of 2D graphics, and I've been using SPB Benchmark Graphics benchmark. Of course, one can always argue there's more than 2D graphics in terms of speed, but slow phones really pissed me off. I used to had a HTC Universal and that was a steaming pile of junk. Switched to HTC Hermes 2-3yrs back... and it's been barely tolerable.
Right now, I've only found 2 "fast" VGA PPC Phones - ASUS P565 and Samsung Omnia II. However ASUS P565 is a questionable VGA phone since it's screen is a puny 2.8" size (might as well get a ASUS P552W). Both have a graphics benchmark of around ~2500, which is quite sad since that's equivalent to the Eten M600 speed (ok it runs as a QVGA). Compare this to Samsung Omnia I (~5000) or the ASUS P552W (~11,000) both of which uses the slower Marvel 624MHz CPU, Monahans and Tavor generation respectively.
I read that Toshiba TG01 Snapdragon is coming soon, but are there any concrete benchmarks done on it?
So, does anyone know if there is any fast & responsive VGA PPC Phones out there? Or do we have to wait for Snapdragon, Tegra or Marvell's 1GHz CPU? Can we expect such CPUs to make VGA screened phones fast enough? Or should I just get the ASUS P552W which means giving up my QWERTY keyboard , and wait for another 2-3years?

Hi
I can think on Tosh tg01 that is already on sale as the fastest to this date (I believe)
On december some snapdragon tosh models will be launched! perhaps HTC also...
Other ones not so fast but also good options are:
Touch pro 2
Hero

Acer M900?

YOu cannot treat a processors MHz as the be-all-end-all. Its an indicator and nothing more. You cannot compare processor speeds across diferent manufacturers either.
And no matter how fast the processor, if the drivers/design around it is sh*t, the phone will suffer greatly. A good example of this, Acer Shell to access contacts can be a little slow, SPB Shell however, is instant.
You can only compare by running the same app performing the same task on each phone. Benchmarks try to do this but can become far too specific at times. Again, they are a (good) indicator but not the be-all-end-all.
On a side note, I have an m900 and if you turn off Acer Shell (coz it sucks!) it is VERY fast.
When you want speed, why do you need speed exactly? Are you talking about accessing contacts etc? Are you talking about screen orientation or maybe playing games?
Your best bet is try and get hold of devices, install the required game/software and THEN see how responsive it is.

Monty Burns said:
YOu cannot treat a processors MHz as the be-all-end-all. Its an indicator and nothing more. You cannot compare processor speeds across diferent manufacturers either.
And no matter how fast the processor, if the drivers/design around it is sh*t, the phone will suffer greatly. A good example of this, Acer Shell to access contacts can be a little slow, SPB Shell however, is instant.
You can only compare by running the same app performing the same task on each phone. Benchmarks try to do this but can become far too specific at times. Again, they are a (good) indicator but not the be-all-end-all.
On a side note, I have an m900 and if you turn off Acer Shell (coz it sucks!) it is VERY fast.
When you want speed, why do you need speed exactly? Are you talking about accessing contacts etc? Are you talking about screen orientation or maybe playing games?
Your best bet is try and get hold of devices, install the required game/software and THEN see how responsive it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easier said than done, I would love to have a try out by to replicate real-life performance one has to install all the apps one normally use, so it's not practical unless you have a dozen friends with different PPC Phones. While benchmarks aren't perfect, I don't see anything better to replace it. Sure, there is software optimizations and driver stuff, but if it sucks... no matter how much you cook your ROM and optimize, it sucks.
Take for example HTC Universal. That is one slow piece of junk. No matter how much optimization you do, you're not going to beat say the current HTC Hermes that I am using in terms of responsiveness. Another example is the last 1-2 yrs of HTC <Insert Model> running Qualcomm CPUs. So many users have reported the unbearably slow speed, and it doesn't help that many of them come with VGA resolution screens. Almost all evidence point to date that VGA phones are slow and crappy... and I was wondering if technology has advanced the point whereby this can be rectified.
Speed? It's the most importing thing when dealing with PPC Phones. For many years now, I the name Pocket PC is a real misnomer, as previous generation and maybe even current generation of phones acts in no way like a real personal computer.
What is acceptable? Fast 2D graphics. Instant response when I click on something, as I was using a laptop. No lag. No lag when rotating the screen. Faster loading of webpages instead of waiting for ages... and then it crashes. And btw I use Phone Weaver, Pocket Plus and SPB Diary on my Today screen, which makes it more taxing on the 2D system. Sure the HTC Universal with a fresh install can rotate screen in 1-2 seconds when optimized, but load in all my Today plugins it takes like 10-20 seconds!
Next comes fast 3D graphics and the ability to play movies. Right now my HTC Hermes can't play normal sized video files, i.e. 640x480, XVID/DIVX. Of course you can always recode with a lower res, but what's the point? It's all extra work.

Ronnie,
Have you thought about doing the 128MB memory upgrade, and overclocking the CPU on the Universal? May help things a bit.
Some other devices that may be faster:
Xperia X1
Acer F1
02 XDA Flame
Asus P835
Here is a site that test floating point and OGL performance in smartphones. Donot know how legit it is however.
http://www.glbenchmark.com/latest_results.jsp?benchmark=glpro

Most certainly don't look to HTC.
e.g. Kaiser - even if the CPU/GPU supports faster performance, they don't deem that necessary and don't include the required drivers.
The video 'hack' to speed up 2-D performance for the Kaiser proves that there are even more inefficiencies/missing drivers for that HTC phone.

I would suggest that the new Acer Tempo range and new Samsung Omnia's are a good way to investigate. Both these brands are selling the fact that there chips have built in 3d graphics and I believe the Samsungs even come with a free 3d game - could be wrong though. Either way, you wouldnt sell the fact you have a 3d games capability if you haven't programmed proper 3d drivers - something HTC have never really done afaik.
Again, the Acers are only showing a 528mhz (something like that anyway) but don't be fooled by a mhz rating. For example, just because a snapdragon is showing a 1ghz processor doesn't means its faster than a 528mhz Samsung... if you use google you will find plenty of winmob experienced people that feel its not as fast as it should be.
edit: Im sure the Samsung Omnia II's come with a Need For Speed Variant?