Related
Hi just to let you know, TomTom have just released their upgrade from either TomTom Navigator 2 or 3 to Navigator 5. This can be found on their website.
It costs 59 Euros and your getting the whole of europe on cd plus the new software interface.
I've just ordered my copy. Lets hope it doesn't take 5 weeks to arrive :roll:
It can be found here..
http://www.tomtom.com/shop/upgrade.php?action=pda&TT=6148c3366d84713d07ab4770d8adb478
Cheers,
lydiachris
link's gone. You sure that wasn't teh upgrade for tomtom Go?
this one works...
http://www.tomtom.com/shop/upgrade.php?action=pda&TT=06fcb14888137955f86f48863bc37a85
I've ordered one but had no email confirmation... is this normal?
JB
You'll receive it shortly.. I ordered it at 11.56 CET; and received the confirmation an hour later.
I hope it works correctly on WM2005; I know it has the same backlight problem as Tomtom 4.4.
Still says "available soon" there is no upgrade path.
same old tom tom crap!
Oh well, been waiting for the much anticipated version 5, just ordered it, up to 5 weeks to wait!! It's on a bunch of CDs again (probably un-labelled and needing a 2nd navigation programme to find your way around them!!!) what happened to the pre loaded SD cards featured in their test copies?
And then there are still issues with back-lighting & probably SD problems too.
Just pour money down a black hole, get refused activation codes because you've had your phone replaced by the insurance, am I the only one who feels that TomTom is treating us like a load of brainless jerks! I've just gone 6 months without my expensive Nav3 and had to rely on 'Good old' Microsoft and their reliable Autoroute 2005!
GGGRRRRR!
Since I have no GPS< I used to use TT3 as a stand-alone route planner. For some reason I am not able to do this in TT5, since it keeps searching for a GPS signal. Does anyone here now how to use TT5 as a route planner without a GPS attached?
Has anyone actually recived either confirmation of their upgrade being shipped or it being despatched by UPS yet?!?!?!
yeah mines been posted, should be here today or tomorrow...
Cheers,
JB
Recieved and up and running (on diamond 1.2 rom). Works really well, loads of improvements over 3. My only complaint is that you can't customise the menus anymore like you could on 3. BTW it comes with full maps for all of western Europe... bargain!!
JB
No Maps Found Error In Tom Tom Navigator 5
:?
Hi guys/gals
I got hold of version 5 program upgrade which included the Benelux maps and loaded it up on my PDA but upon running the tom tom shortcut from my Today Screen I get the following error once I have okayed the legal splash screen at the start of the application
'No Maps Found'
It gives me an option to download maps, why is it not picking up the UK one I already have
My UK map is located on my SD card and I was previously running version v4.40 and this picked up the maps without any problem
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance
tomtom 5 help
Hi All, Ive just up-dated my Mada Compact / XDA Mini / Magician with tomtom 5 navigator.... its very impressive but had a few teething problems so as your always helping me out I thought id post this :
If you have an original tomtom bluetooth GPS reciever and want to up-grade to tomtom 5 but are using tomtom 3, make sure you remove POI (seperate program your speed cam sounds wont work on tomtom 5 you have to select a deafult sound) and remove tomtom 3 completly (I did a hard reset after a load of messing), then bond again with your reciever.... then when you go through the set-up select the tomtom reciever, :lol: then go to the GPS settings in prefernces and make sure you click on the little text that say 'NO GPS device' top left hand corner (its not a button just text), this will prompt you to restart the device... do it and then your GPS reciver should work ok, but if you dont re-start it wont finish the connection. Not sure if im the only one effected by this issue I did a google and nothing came up so if you have problems this should sort them out. I only found out when I was showing the fault to a friend and he clicked the text by accident! apart from that I would definatly recommend tomtom 5 up-grade Maps are much quicker for zoom + and - ... any other questions or help just ask!...
Cheers, James
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Your answer Software Guru
By the way software guru, I think that the reason tomtom 5 is not working is because you have the UK maps on from tomtom 4, these are not compatible with tomtom 5...
I have the uk version of tomtom 5... E-mail :roll: me for further details....
James
I have just got Tom Tom 5 for my M2000 - seems to work ok apart from the fact that the onscreen keyboard function when entering a destination is not there - having to use the slide out keyboard which when driving is a little awkward.
Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, have they managed to fix it? I have recently upgraded the BT stack to 3.9 which has resulted in some things disappearing - - when I soft reset, the folder called 'My' has disappeared and all the contact info and task have to be synchronized.
I also have a number of TT files in the storage memory - would this affect the operation of the onscreen keyboard?
The files in storage memory are
Tom Tom Today
Tom Tom Bluetooth Support
Tom Tom Navigator
Tom Tom Contacts Navigation
Any help greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Rich
hi i have a couple questions :: does tomtom 5 work on a hp pda ??
and some body a idea where i can fund some keys ;-) for the maps
greets
Same Problem with Keyboard
Hi
I have the Same problem with keyboard. The screen keyboard is not there on my XDA2s. Such a problem does not exist with the XDA2.
Also when i upgraded to Windows Mobile 2005, the screen goes black as soon as I open TomTom 5
Any suggesstions with such problems?
Nader
TTN 5 keyboard
There's another (long!) thread running on keyboards. Basically it seems that we have to use the build in keyboard until they release some patches. The shift/Fnc key problems do not occur in the GB 7 digit postcode selection so its usable on that.
Koksie said:
Since I have no GPS< I used to use TT3 as a stand-alone route planner. For some reason I am not able to do this in TT5, since it keeps searching for a GPS signal. Does anyone here now how to use TT5 as a route planner without a GPS attached?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad I'm not the only one that fell into TTN's trap! Like me I'm sure you've figured out by now that there is a seperate "Advanced planning" menu that gives you this function and lots more - to be fair it works well with lots of extra options. It's a pity there is not an operating guide that highlights these features - expecially for those used to older versions of the software.
M6 Fan said:
I have just got Tom Tom 5 for my M2000 - seems to work ok apart from the fact that the onscreen keyboard function when entering a destination is not there. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, have they managed to fix it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. And no, don't have a fix. Very annoying. On the other hand, doesn't the TTN5 legal message say that you shouldn't drink and drive? No wait, enter a route and drive? :wink:
i've installed my new version of tt and having slight problems already
my first trip went fine but got to use it today for a propper run ,
at first everything went fine that is until a phone call then it started freezing after mile and had to do many hard resets to get it working again ,in th eend i had to put it into flight mode to get it to work properly
does anyone know how to over come this in any way ..i know tt5 is new but i use my pda for updating traffic and recieving of calls
thans
Heard there are issues with this andy, it seems xda2i doesn't like a headset plus something else with bluetooth running at the same time.
jase
On the Tom Tom website it says version 5 is "available soon", and you already have it? How can that be?
got the upgrade pack mate, came in the post on thursday.
Where did you get it from then? I can't buy it from the Tom Tom website, because it just says "available soon".
Or is that just the software upgrade?
Then again, if the software is ready, the whole package should be available too, including the GPS device. Where do I get it?
No Idea, i found the webpage on the tom tom website for the upgrade and got it that way.
Don't know why the whole package is not avalable yet, have you checked other pda shops on the web to see if any?
TT% upgrade
Log out and re-log in on the main tom tom page, and it should appear for you...
Not too impressed with TT5 so far, but only loaded it last night
(TT Wired GPS for my car and oter Bluetooth GPS for when I'm not...)
TT5 and bluetooth.
Forgot to mention, I got in my car and had previously been using my BT GPS. XDA connected to BT car kit no worries, then I plugged in wired GPS - selected this GPS and TT5 turned BlueTooth off.... thanks Tom Tom, so I had to turn it back on for my car kit connection..
Pain in the butt.. :evil:
What should appear?
link
http://www.tomtom.com/shop/upgrade.php?action=pda&TT=0da80196511a7d17dfe0ee4f76efc119
thanks for replies i should also mention i am using wired gps ,i reset my ppc this morning and actually got it to work received calls updated traffic but as soon as i got a gps signal in the car it all went pete tong
some 1 is gonna have to do something i got my xda2i because they said it would work ,and it don't ..i have to keep turning flight mode on when i use tt
Hi all,
Got my Tomtom 5 Today yet the tomtom website says its still in the warehouse
Maybe they will send me another one
I doubt it, at least I have got it now
Cheers
Lee
bugger!!! I have just bought an XDAIIi and installed 3.07 last week. It worked great until (as bluebotel has said in another thread) you go into another cell and the phone communicayes with the mast, then it locks up. I have tested tomtom 3.07 with the phone off, on, making a call with the GPS plug in and not plug in. Basically if the phone has to do something (call, change cell) and the GPS is plugged in, tomtom freezes. If you run tomtom but do not have the GPS plugged in (i.e. tomtom isnt actually navigating) then tomtom doesn't lock up when the phoned is used, so its obviously the GPS reciever, coupled with tomtom that buggering it up!!
Not sure what to do now, do i send the xda back, get different software or will there be a fix. I was going to try tomtom5, but looks like it suffers the same problem!! What a bag of crap!!!!
Does anyonbe know if it works with XDAIIs or XDAIII???
Hi all,
After receiving my Tomtom navigator 5 yesterday, I managed to drive to work this morning (Approx 20miles) without a lockup with the Phone ON!
We shall see how it performs whilst I use it. Upto now it seems a well worth product upgrade. In fact the thing that impresses me the most is the frame rate of the Navigator View. Its so smooth I could be playing a game. No screen jerks.
The whole software seems faster and fluent with integrated menus and web content. If the XDA2i doesn't lock up like it did on tomtom 3 then I will be more than pleased.
I'll keep you posted
Cheers
Lee
sounds promising!!!
If you go to the product section of Tomtom site it says the i is suported, but if you go to the support pages, it doesn't appear on the list!!!
I have a cracked copy of 5 to test before i buy it, but can't get it to inmstal
It didn't take me long to find how to make it freeze!
With the phone on it seems to be ok, still needs more testing, however; when you try to download traffic or weather updates using the GPRS, it freezes everytime.
So basically don't download updates or even have GPRS on in the background!
I'm still unsure if the phone causes it to freeze, its looking like it may do yet I haven't seem it do that yet only the GPRS connection.
I'll keep you posted.
Cheers
Blue
What a bag of cak!!
Just installed 5 and went to play in the car, but i can't get the GPS reciever to connect. I am using a holux cr100 cradle (wired), i select "other wired" and it just sits there searching, saying "no gps device". It worked fine on TT3
bluebotle said:
With the phone on it seems to be ok, still needs more testing, however; when you try to download traffic or weather updates using the GPRS, it freezes everytime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same issue that I have with TT5...though if you perform the traffic update whilst connected to your PC instead, the update works fine and doesn't crash. It seems that the data is downloaded but then it can't update it into TT. If you wait a few mins, then tap the screen you get a slow menu, go to the TT traffic bit and it says "last updated 0 mins ago", so something is happening.
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this as this is the one thing that is currently hacking me off about TT5...everything else works fine.
Cheers
Ant
astryger said:
On the Tom Tom website it says version 5 is "available soon", and you already have it? How can that be?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*cough* BitTorrent *cough*
People who bought TT3 were sent out TT5 via CD recently.
I have had the same problem with the BT GPS. What I do is go into the menu and tap on GPS status. Magically the GPS starts to work and it shows all the fixes.
From then on wards it works fine other than the lockup when using GPRS to update Traffic.
Cheers
Lee
I am close to seeing if my XDA2i and TT5.10 can swim better than it navigate without locking up . . .
I installed the corporate version when hard reset, and performed a clean install of version 5.10 as requested by the tom tom support team.
TT5.10 works like a dream . . .. if you dont get a phone call (locks up) or dont get a text message (locks up) dont want a traffic update (locks up) - in fact it probably works best if you do not switch it on . . .
After 10 updates to my online question, because getting to play a round of golf with the President is easier than speaking with anyone at tomtom, they replied . . .
"Thanks for the feedback. The issues that you mention should have been resolved with the update to version 5.10. I'll contact our technical team about this, and will get back to you." (yeah, right)
Thanks for the feed back? THANKS?? Maybe it should be us XDA2i users thanking TT for wasting our time getting lost because their update is more premature than me sharing a bed with a supermodel.
I contacted O2, because when someone calls me on my trusty XDA2i (locking up TT) the phone line is totally dead when I answer.
O2 said . . .
"The XDA2i has an upgrade due for release very shortly. We haven’t been given a set date yet, but I would suggest checking the website each day for the update - www.my-xda.com
Hopefully their new ROM will sort this issue . . . TomTom clearly not tested TT5 on an allegedly supported device . . .
Incidently when I ask TT to unlock my old TT3 code (because TT3 actually worked and I want to re-install it) they said . . .
"Unfortunately we can't unblock your Product Code for Navigator 3 at the moment, as this was code was blocked when you ordered the Upgrade"
If any one has any solutions, or a sledge hammer, I be very grateful
Hi there, im currently using TT5 with hardly any problems(im using i-mate ROM) but there are a few that may cause it.
Firstly the SD card has caused alot of problems for people, i use a 1gig card and it is the cause of most of my problems.
However i think the root of the many problems the 2i has is ... The ROM.
As O2 say they are releasing a new ROM soon and i can bet this will sort alot of the problems your having right now.
in the mean time you should think about installing the i-mate ROM which has made my XDA2i more stable.
I have an XDA 2i & can use Tom Tom 5 wiithout a problem, bearing in mind it is version 5.0. I haven't experiencd these problems you have mentioned.
My first XDA2i did play up (freezing up at random times!), after a quick call to O2, they replaced the unit & so far I haven't had the same problems. I just put it down to a glitch in the system.
I am however interested in upgrading the ROM as my version is the same as yours & from what I have read on this website, it seems that people find it worthwhile upgrading their ROMs to iron out the glitches. But is it safe to use upgrades meant for other devices?
I'm also using TTN5 without a problem, version 5.0 with the patch I posted here, before applying that patch it would crash fairly regularily, now however it's fine.
I have had problems when using a 1gig card on my XDA2i. It seems that any gsm/gprs activity causes the SD card to disconnect, thus freezing/locking up the phone, especially in TOMTOM. If I switch cards to a 512mb or 256mb the card does not disconnect and everything is fine. I had problems with the phone locking up whilst navigating and a call coming in, whis was with tomtom 3.07. Moving to tomtom5 cured all of this. I'd definately say it's a ROM problem with the XDA2i as my 1gb card will without fail disconnect when I switch on GPRS.
roll on ROM update....
I am running the i-mate 1.11 ROM and I have hardly any problems compared to when I was running the O2 1.10 ROM.
Rarely the phone will lock up when I hang up a call, and sometimes GPRS will fail to reconnect after a call, but in general it is *very* stable compared to 1.10.
WM2005 on the XDA2 has been perfectly stable for me, but alas, I sold it last week, and am now stuck with a more buggy device/os.
I upgraded to the imate 1.11 rom and now my bluetooth head set disconnects when the unit powers off. A call will come in and i have no headset icon. This worked fine under the O2 UK rom
Any ideas ????????? :? :?
yeah i tried the i-mate rom as well and was no good on my xda2i kept freezing the pda after i exited tomtom
i don't think it is the sd cards either that is causeing this as i have been though 3 cards already and there was never any difference allways locked up ..BUT the best i ever got was a clean install then using tomtoom updated traffiffic fine and the whole i did it about 10 times but as soon as it hit the gps cable thats when it all froze on me
I haven't experienced either of those problems with the 1.11 rom, and I use TomTom 5 (well, 5.10 now) and a Jabra BT800 headset all the time.
So many of the issues really are random.
I am going round in circles here, can anyone help. TomTom will not install via ActiveSync, so I have done the usual copy of the cab files to the SD card and installed it from there....fine, until I try and install ttn.cab which is the main application. I keep getting a "Storage memory is critically low...." which is arse! If I try and install it via ActiveSync, It crashes and give a windows send error report.
I am running and XDA2 with 1.65b, Radio 1.18 Everything else works fine.
Anyone???
have you downloaded the 5.21 update from tomtom, you need this for WM2005
Are, no, if I do that, my machine starts asking for a product key....say no more! Looks like I will have to buy it.
I gotta say that I did not have this issue on my blueangel (and I have the no activation version too :wink: ) but I have found this thread full of peeps who did but no longer do thanks to some guy who has figured it out.
I do have a problem where Tomtom crashes every 10 mins when connected to the bluetooth GPS making it unusable tho! Guess you can't have everyting tho
Any help on this one would be great!!!!
I gotta say that I did not have this issue on my blueangel (and I have the no activation version too :wink: ) but I have found this thread full of peeps who did but no longer do thanks to some guy who has figured it out.
I do have a problem where Tomtom crashes every 10 mins when connected to the bluetooth GPS making it unusable tho! Guess you can't have everyting tho
Any help on this one would be great!!!!
Hi Maybe Yuu could help me
I have a tomtom go 300 or 500 ( I can't check it How I could check it ? )
My problem is that I have downloaded full navigator 5.0 from torrent
And I Can't start both cd aplication and aplication cracks
It's look like Active sync don't work with TomTom Active sync don't recognize TT I use usb cable
So and when I want to install aplication ( pushing next ) there is a comunicate that can't connect to my device
What happen Does Activesync don't work with tom tom ?
Please help me I was trying to install aplication and maps for 4 days
Thanks
Have you tried the link below?
Yanny said:
I gotta say that I did not have this issue on my blueangel (and I have the no activation version too :wink: ) but I have found this thread full of peeps who did but no longer do thanks to some guy who has figured it out.
I do have a problem where Tomtom crashes every 10 mins when connected to the bluetooth GPS making it unusable tho! Guess you can't have everyting tho
Any help on this one would be great!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got a Kenwood BT-200 bluetooth handsfree car kit and have found the following issues with it;
1. Everytime a call is completed, the phone book downloads all over again and takes over 10 minutes, preventing making follow on calls till complete.
2. The received and dialed calls list doesn't work
3. Cannot initiate a call from the head unit unless the phone screen is on (was working perfectly on previous HTC Touch Cruise).
4. Unable to initiate voice dialing on Phone using Microsoft Voice Command whereas with previous HF kits it was as simple as pressing and holding the call button.
Anyone else use the same Touch Pro - BT200 combination? Or experience similar problems with other HF kits?
I have Pioneer BT unit. I can not connect, but I installed Hands-Free Config from JETware Mobile Software and it solved all my problems. There are many setting options which should help you...
Hi Pritman,
I just went through the same thing after upgrading to the Touch Pro from the Dopod 838Pro (Hermes).
There's a firmware update available for the KCA-BT200 which may well fix your issues (certainly did mine).
I created a post about this earlier today (didn't see your post here).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=440494
The firmware flash is very easy to do. You will just need a laptop with a bluetooth adaptor.
Codenix.
Kenwood have released another update.
See my other post at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=440494 for details.
Codenix.
Wow, never thought I would fine anyone else with the combination of Kenwood DNX-7100, KCA-BT200 AND the touch pro. I am having similar issues.
DNX-7100 with BT100 worked fine with touch pro.
"upgraded" to BT200, and I have nothing but headaches.
I have tried two different BT200, and both have been flaky.
I have tried BT200 firmware 1.60 and 1.70, and both have been flaky.
My problem is similar to the ones you folks have been experiencing, mainly it is constantly downloading, and the interface is super sluggish when downloading. I can retrieve a name and phone number from the BT200's memory, but when I call out it will say downloading and do nothing. Sometimes it won't "pair" with the phone automatically unless I manually select my phone from the DNX-7100, and sometimes it will just drop the connection. I used the BT100 for about a year, and it was solid 95% of the time. I am running stock Telus rom, btw. I have also played around with the dip switch on the BT-200. From the shipped manual, DNX-7100 belongs in group F, which is off, off, on for dip switch 1, 2, 3. But when I searched online, some of Kenwood's info listed the DNX-7100 under group G, which has dip switch off, on, off, just to add to the confusion. I have also tried removing the "wireless stereo" profile as well as the "serial port" profile, but that fixed nothing. Lastly, just to kick me when I'm down, when it list the numbers, sometimes it list them as first name, then last name, but sometimes it list it as last name then first. This is super irritating as you can't be sure where anyone is listed ..... so far my experience with the BT200 has been nothing but horrible. I am on the verge of flashing my touch pro to a cooked ROM just to see if it is due to the stock Telus rom's bluetooth (I went back to stock as the juggalo rom I used became corrupt after a few weeks).
So, did you guys finally find a solution that worked 100% of the time?
Idea
Hi Guys, I'm glad there are more people out there with my combination.
Upgrading the BT 200 to 1.70 has improved things significantly but not as good as it would be with another handset like a Nokia N95. The download delay and sluggishness still exist.
I recall when I paired the TP, a notice came up on the TP that the BT 200 is requesting access to the phonebook or contacts and prompted me to allow or deny. I'm wondering what would happen if I deny? I do know that when I first paired the N95 with the older firmware, it wouldn't syncronise the contacts and I had to manually send the contacts to the BT 200. If this can be done with the TP, it may eliminate the constant downloading, perhaps.
Anyone else willing to try this. I may not be able to do this till later this weekend so if any of you do manage to test this before me, please post the results.
Good luck!
If you don't give it access to the phonebook, I suspect it can't download your phonebook automatically, and you would have to manually push the phonebook over, which defeats the purpose of the BT-200, effectively making it a BT-100. After trying a 2nd BT-200 for 3 days, I have given up and chalked up the BT-200 as extremely flaky, and is easily the worst purchase I have ever made as:
1) Half the time it won't pair with the phone automatically
2) The other half when it does pair, you can't dial out as half time time again when you want to make it call, it decides to do a download from your phone instead (never mind that it already "downloaded" when it paired already. Half x half = quarter.
3) Half the time when it does manage to make it call, it magically drops the bluetooth pairing and drops the call.
If you're keeping track, we are at half x half x half, which is 0.125, or this damn thing only works 12.5% of the time. This is not a time saver, nor a gadget of convenience/safety. It is the ultimate source of anxiety, danger (as you're trying to get the damn thing to work), and a big disappointment. Kenwood, shame on you for putting out such flaky products, and especially for not fixing it (look at the first post, it is from Oct 08).
I am going to return both of my BT-200 to Clutchfield, and am going back to my 99% stable BT-100. BT-100 actually is not as horrible with the TP as TP runs WinMo 6.1, which lets you push multiple phone book contacts at once (not like the older WinMo where you had to push contacts ONE BY ONE!!!). The only caveat with the BT-100 is if you need to delete or modify any contacts, you can't, and you have to delete all the entries for a particular phone and repair and push all contacts again, which takes 1 minute now as oppose to half an hour with pre-WinMo 6.1. When I buy a HU next time, I don't think I will consider Kenwood again due to:
1) Flaky software/interface.
2) Poor documentation.
3) Poor service support. Kenwood Canada actually NEVER REPLIED. I only received the auto-gen email notification indicating they received my email. Clutchfield Canada has been very supportive, and I will pay more to buy from them in the future solely due to their strong customer support.
Hi Johnnysks,
As far as the Touch Pro is concerned, I understand your frustration and totally support your argument.
On the other hand, I have tested the BT-200 with a Nokia 96 & my previous Touch Cruise, works like a dream! I've had good responses from Kenwood UK but whenever I contact HTC, I alway get vague responses, which to me suggests that Kenwood must have been making the effort but keep getting let down by HTC. Ultimately the BT-200 works with majority of the handsets out there.
I will still keep trying for a solution though as I really do like the TP and the BT-200!
I have no doubts the BT-200 works with other phones, and I know my TP works with my BT-100 flawlessly. I also know from prior personal dealings with Kenwood Canada's technical support that:
1) They're rude, have a bad attitude, and unprofessional (as my first inquiry for a different product from a year ago was met with a reply that was condescending, unhelpful, and was not even in proper English). I'll be more than happy to dig up my old email for you if you have any doubts.
2) They're not responsive. It's been over a week, and they never replied to my current inquiry regarding the BT-200 (funny. They used to be rude and unprofessional. Now they're missing in action)
Perhaps Kenwood USA, Kenwood UK, or Kenwood Japan are doing an awesome job. However, I can only go with what I have personally experienced.
Anyone find a fix for this? I have the same problems with my DNX8120. Tried Jetware, no luck, I would try BTRestore, but it won't work with .net 3. My biggest complaint is that even if it is connected via bluetooth, it won't start a call from th eheadset unless the phone is not in standby. Next biggest issue is that it drops the connection after hanging up from a call.
Very f*&%*g annoying!
FYI, worked with 2 different ETEN's