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[Q] manufacturing a non camera smartphone

There are two questions (at the moment) that I'd like to be answered if possible.
1. How much would be needed to pay a manufacturer to create one?
High end internals, without a camera or a micro SD slot.
2. How can I get into contact with those that want one?
There are three reasons why I'm in the process of making one.
Variety of camera-less "smart phones" are shrinking. It's good to have choice
There is no one else doing it (so far, I think).
There is enough of a demand for others to have one.
Currently, there is a Shenzhen based manufacturer that gave me a positive reply regarding this matter so I still believe that there is some hope.

mononymous said:
There are two questions (at the moment) that I'd like to be answered if possible.
1. How much would be needed to pay a manufacturer to create one?
High end internals, without a camera or a micro SD slot.
2. How can I get into contact with those that want one?
There are three reasons why I'm in the process of making one.
Variety of camera-less "smart phones" are shrinking. It's good to have choice
There is no one else doing it (so far, I think).
There is enough of a demand for others to have one.
Currently, there is a Shenzhen based manufacturer that gave me a positive reply regarding this matter so I still believe that there is some hope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think people will look for a specific phone without cam. I mean, of course they may not care if its 2MP or 8MP. If 1 such phone is released, it'll be immediately be bombarded with people who won't mind having an extra feature i.e cam. Do you think people who don't use cam much will NOT buy a smartphone because it has got a camera, although vice-versa seems possible.

there is a market...
lamborg said:
I don't think people will look for a specific phone without cam. I mean, of course they may not care if its 2MP or 8MP. If 1 such phone is released, it'll be immediately be bombarded with people who won't mind having an extra feature i.e cam. Do you think people who don't use cam much will NOT buy a smartphone because it has got a camera, although vice-versa seems possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The target market are not the general consumers, it never was in this case which is why I brought up this small project of mine. The phone is aimed at people who due to their work have restrictions on what they can bring. For instance, officially I am not allowed to have a camera phone which has an expandable storage. Every once in a while, I see posts on various forums and blogs about a non-camera smartphone. Even here, there were others who were in the exact situation. The difference between them and myself is that for them, they at least had a choice in buying a phone that accomplished such goals.
You say that the phone will be bombarded by people who want it without a camera, I would disagree. As, there are plenty of other options form reputable manufacturer that would fit the bill. Since, from the start I am not planning to create a product that would compete with them since I am at a disadvantage, not only in terms of so called "features" but brand, support, availability.
I'm trying to target a niche that would exist for the foreseeable future and that is why I created this thread.

[GUIDE] Picking Out Your Next Device

I often say to myself, that there must be more makes and models of mobile devices out there than the variety of vehicles these days. If that turns out true, it's no wonder. This industry is the fastest growing market right now. With such a selection, features, brands, and prices, it's hard to choose which device will be the best for you. Hopefully this guide will give you an idea on what to look for in your next device.
FIRST OFF:
GSMArena is your friend. They provide detailed specifications of many devices out there. The ones they don't show, well, a good rule of thumb is that the device is probably not popular enough to warrant your attention, if you want to do some of the things this site is known for (more on that later).
A cool feature of GSMArena is the ability to be able to compare two (or more) devices side-by-side, so once you have a small handful of possibilities, you can compare features easily.
One thing you do need to be careful of, is that GSMArena does not feature every variation a carrier may instill. So the Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini you may see at the Bell Aliant store really has 16GB of storage space, but Bell may be the only carrier that uses that variant.
NETWORK:
Those looking for a Wi-Fi only tablet can skip this section...but a must-read for everyone else.
If you have a handful of devices in mind, right off the bat you should rule them in by checking their network status. I cannot tell you which one will work for your network, but your provider will tell you what technology (or technologies) they use (CDMA vs GSM/HSPA/HSPA+/LTE), and at what frequencies. My provider runs HSPA+ and LTE at 1700 and 2100 mHz only (no 2G), so that narrows my options for phones. As an example, last years Moto G LTE would work, but not this year's version due to mismatched frequencies.
Network technology is quite important, especially if you use CDMA. This means you would have no SIM (a tiny device that contains your subscriber information that you get from your provider) card (unless it has world phone capability, and even then, the bands probably won't work for your region) and are stuck with the carrier you buy the phone from. There are some CDMA-based network phone's, like the Motorola Photon Q (released for Sprint), that have their SIM card non-removable (a CDMA/GSM hybrid) where people have modified by soldering in a proper SIM slot. However, the GSM bands used for this device no not work for North America providers.
REFUSALS:
Think of a list of what you don't want. Want to avoid a phablet? Check! No to an Android OS older than Kitkat? Got it! No Samsung devices? You are on fire!
Maybe you can even think of some of the basic internals we take for granted. Usable space is one of them. It's hard to tell, but there is a big disconnect between the ROM size and what you have available to use. Heck, the system data's gotta take up space too! But the big question, what does this leave me? My recent phone, an LG Optimus F3Q, came with a JellyBean ROM, on a 4GB device. I had 1.3GB to play with. Not a lot, in light of the F3Q's predecessor for T-Mobile, the Samsung Galaxy S Relay 4G had a 8GB ROM (Ice Cream Sandwich) and 5GB to play with. Why the downgrade, I never understood.
Seems as though a couple years ago, 16GB or more was reserved for high-end phones, 8GB for mid-range, and 4GB for budget phones. I am still seeing phones set up this way, such as the LG G3 S (aka Beat). This is a phone that was released with a 8GB ROM (the smaller cousin to the LG G3, much like the relationship between the Samsung Galaxy S4 and S4 Mini) and KitKat as an OS, upgradeable to Lollipop. This phone is in preparation of space-hungry Lollipop, and it shows when you look at this device's usable stoage space. For a 8GB ROM, you get around 2.4GB available to you. Since Lollipop's new runtime doubles the space of applications (un-compiled version, and compiled version of everything) compared to previous Android versions, the situation is just as bad with this phone as I have previously complained about with the F3Q. Thus, my refusal is no less than 8GB for Jellybean-age devices, or no less than 16GB for Lollipop or newer.
FEATURES:
Okay, so now you know what you don't want. What about what you want? Time to start a second list. Be reasonable, as in don't add features that won't be in phones for the next several years (like 1TB storage). This could be a quad-core processor (which seems to be the bare minimum for decent devices these days, or maybe 2GB of memory/RAM).
GIMMICKS:
In your feature list, did you add dual-SIM support, QWERTY keyboard, or some other gimmick? Be careful with that - a lot of manufacturers don't handle gimmicks too well, and only put them on lower-specced devices (Samsung Duos line comes to mind). These devices are not meant to push a lot of units, so the prices of them usually are quite higher. Keep in mind that dual-sim is not quite a gimmick, but it strays from the norm enough that you would be confused if it wasn't.
TO MicroSD OR NOT MicroSD?:
This is increasingly becoming a gimmick sadly. I like spending less on a device and then supplementing it with cheap memory. But this cannot be the case for many. Some manufacturers are bringing them back, others, are abolishing them from their devices. It's hard to see what the weather will be like there.
It comes down to personal choice, if it's a worthy feature or something you can live without.
BATTERY:
Battery life holds a big importance. Typically you want to look at the number of mAh the battery holds (as a comparison to like devices), but for say, different screen sizes, a smaller battery will work just as well on a smaller screen. So you need to look at screen-on-time metrics to know how long you can use your device, and how long you can go before a recharge. The challenge is that manufacturers usually advertise battery life by idle time, which is a perfect-world scenario (all sensors and radios turned off, no screen-on-time - basically the device is hibernating more aggressively than you will ever let it).
Another consideration is whether the battery should be removable. I used to be a strong supporter of removable batteries, since I would replace a faulty battery from time to time, but these days, I'm ambivalent to that idea. With external battery packs, you should never have to pop the back cover because the battery went dead. With the fact you can turn off a bootlooped phone after pressing power for many seconds, you never need to pull the battery either. Although, the big reason for a removable battery is for longevity of the phone, as the battery is usually the first to fail (after-market batteries are tested to function well for 300 charges). With a user-replaceable battery, you can easily buy and insert a replacement, be it from the OEM or third party (which often provides a little more juice). Once again, it comes down to personal choice.
DEVELOPMENT:
Okay, by now, you must have some decent candidates. But how do they stack up to this site? If the device does not have a forum yet, there is no guarantee it will ever get one. Even if it has a fourm, there is no guarantee it will get any amount of development. This becomes a judgement call whether your phone will be rootable, and have the ability to install custom ROMs (if that's your thing). If you are not concerned about that kind of support, no loss has been made, but if custom ROMs are your thing, don't buy and then "hope and wait" for something that may never come because you got a device noone cares about.
FINALLY:
Sometimes you cannot have everything you are looking for and not looking for. So this becomes time to prioritize and find the best match of features and refusals. It is not necessarily settling, but if we could all have our "Homer", the cost of phones would be astronomical (and some people place certain price points as refusals).
If you still get stuck, there is the device suggestion thread where others suggest the best device out there for your needs.
Hope this helps someone on their next purchase.

rootable Tracfones still for sale? (also help me pick a phone?)

Hello, if i'm posting this in the wrong place please migrate this message somewhere better. Also I could post separate topics but i'm trying to wrap them into one. (if it's better to separate let me know - another board I stepped on toes for having "too many separate posts" that were lightly linked)
I'm trying to buy a Tracfone. Specifically a Tracfone "with 1 year service/minutes" bundle, actually i'm looking for two of them (me and GF) because her phone seemed to just implode recently for no reason.
Two places I know of having "bundling deals" are QVC and HSN, if there are others please let me know? I'm aware of shopcelldeals but those arent bundles, just minute-less phones usually.
One of my TOP priorities is finding phones that can root, yet searching for nearly every Tracfone for sale on either site keeps showing the same things - others asking for root with no success, talk of locked bootloaders, and similar. I am wondering if this is something across the board, if some manufacturers are worse than others, if some tend to have root methods show up later, etc. I can live without it for now, I just can't put certain cool things on until then.
If finding a rootable Tracfone is hopeless i'm probably shopping for conventional phones for BYOD but then no minutes deals with either a free phone or barely more cost obviously.
Makes little difference to be if 3G or 4G (despite the impending 3g sunset), CDMA or GSM, other than really trying to find Verizon or ATT Tracfones because of superior coverage where I drive. Actually ideal might be one ATT and one Verizon due to complimentary coverage. (where one is out the other usually is present)
The above probably already is a pretty short list of phones (if any at all) so not even sure if more details is needed, other than preferring a larger screen to make Google Maps more usable. (5-5.5" is nicer than smaller) That's honestly the most demanding application we are likely to need. Something with a replaceable battery preferred - note i'm not afraid of "non user replaceable" batteries that just make it hard/involve disassembly, have tools for that long as it's possible and there's a guide.
The fallback worst case scenario is just buy a pair of used Samsung Galaxy S5's one VZ one ATT and do the bring own device tracfone SIMs, but i'd like to see if there is something competitively cheaper since money is sorta tight. Any advice on anything directly or indirectly mentioned in this thread would be appreciated as helpful.

Actually, strongly consider used (as in pre-owned) CDMA (and specifically ex-VZW) phones; they can be purchased from many Amazon sellers, Wirefly, etc. Also, not all VZW customers trade in their phones (and especially not since VZW has the hypercheap Samsung Galaxy J3 that they are pushing to non-unlimited customers - my Mom bought one to replace her Galaxy Nexus, which I now have).
Once you have your ex-VZW phone in hand, order a SIM Kit from Tracfone via their BYOD page - https://get.tracfone.com/bring-your-own-phone/
While you are waiting for your SIM Kit to show, select your replacement ROM of choice *and* remove the old SIM - you won't need it for any of the prep steps. (You will need a wireless router with at least 2.4 GHz N support, though.)
For Samsung-based ex-VZW phones (which I suggest and which I will use as an example), grab the Universal Android Toolkit (current version is 1.5.6). While it is a Windows application, it is a "character mode" Windows application that runs windowed - no mousing here. The UAT supports features that ODIN flat out lacks; even better, you don't need to use that unique-to-Samsung "download mode", either. It doesn't just support flashing community ROMs/firmware; it can also restore supported devices to bog-stock (REALLY useful for phones you "inherit" from others). It even includes a mix of rooting utilities, and supports custom recoveries (it includes two versions of TWRP for the Galaxy Nexus, for example - with alternatives from the old CWM and Carliv's/Philz Touch (should you not like TWRP).
Some common misconceptions are about to get sliced and diced in this paragraph - so PAY ATTENTION.
First misconception - Tracfone requires a stock configuration. Not true of BYOP, and never has been. What firmware you run on your phone is YOUR business - Tracfone, in fact, could care less.
Second misconception - you have to start fresh (no porting). Patently false; you can port existing numbers to Tracfone BYOP just fine; I ported a lifeline number from Tracfone's Safelink Wireless division.
Third misconception - you can't port numbers from feature phones. See second misconception above; the number I ported was from a feature phone. (Safelink Wireless just started shipping Android phones itself; until Christmas of this year; the standard lifeline phone was a feature phone - typically from Alcatel, and connected to T-Mobile's 3G network.)
Last misconception - Tracfone uses a weak network backbone. While that was certainly the case with T-Mobile's network (which is still used by Safelink's feature phones), the LTE side of Tracfone (and Safelink's Android phones) is driven by Verizon Wireless - which is as solid as it gets in most of the US. As VZW predecessor company Bell Atlantic Mobile used to remind us in their video ads, a cell phone is only as good as the network it runs on.
Some surprises about the Galaxy Nexus in particular - first off, it doesn't support SD cards - at all; by that, I mean there is no way to physically mount them. (Therefore, don't even think about that option.) However, basic storage is capacious - out of the 29 GB of total storage, only 3 GB is used by my chosen firmware (PureNexus 7.1.1 for Galaxy Nexus) and GApps (Dynamic 7.1.1.) For that reason, I therefore have LOTS of room for files and apps (especially apps) - and without getting hamstrung by lack of basic storage space. (All too many devices compensate for that lack of basic storage by using SD cards; however, the tradeoff and hamstringing comes into major play with Lollipop and later, as they normally don't let you run apps from the SD card - that is why workarounds like APP2SD exist.) That capacious storage also covers why it's still supported - and especially why the Android community is still writing new ROMs for it, despite the dual-core TI OMAP CPU. (That's right; I did say dual-core.) In general use, there is surprisingly little bog in the GNex - even compared to a more modern phone such as the Samsung S7, let alone the J3.

Good smartphone for elderly parent with deteriorating vision?

I'm trying to decide on a better phone for my father. He is technically savy but starting to have some vision issues.
He is currently using an LG G3 which I've long ago rooted and stripped out most every useless app and program to simplify the app drawer and minimize issues he may have trying to find something. It is on TMobile and the new device will need to be compatible with TMO also. The G3 works fine but would like a bigger screen and the earpiece speaker is crackling again. Have replaced it twice and don't feel like doing it again.
For the most part he only uses email, phone, maps, calculator and web browser. Doesn't need the latest device or the fanciest features. Just a reliable, affordable and sturdy device since he tends to break them also.
Basically....
Would like to find something with a large, bright screen. 6" or more.
Something that is sturdy, reliable and big battery.
Easy to root so I can strip out useless apps.
Loud earpiece.
Cheap or easy to fix when he breaks it.
Anyone have a parent in a similar position and what did you find worked best for them?

cahiatt said:
I'm trying to decide on a better phone for my father. He is technically savy but starting to have some vision issues.
He is currently using an LG G3 which I've long ago rooted and stripped out most every useless app and program to simplify the app drawer and minimize issues he may have trying to find something. It is on TMobile and the new device will need to be compatible with TMO also. The G3 works fine but would like a bigger screen and the earpiece speaker is crackling again. Have replaced it twice and don't feel like doing it again.
For the most part he only uses email, phone, maps, calculator and web browser. Doesn't need the latest device or the fanciest features. Just a reliable, affordable and sturdy device since he tends to break them also.
Basically....
Would like to find something with a large, bright screen. 6" or more.
Something that is sturdy, reliable and big battery.
Easy to root so I can strip out useless apps.
Loud earpiece.
Cheap or easy to fix when he breaks it.
Anyone have a parent in a similar position and what did you find worked best for them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would try doing some Google searches for:
"Smartphones for seniors"
Or
"Smartphones for the visually impaired"
Find the most recent links to lists and reviews of devices then find one that meets all of your requirements, have them participate in reading the lists and choosing the device.
DO NOT CONTACT ME VIA PM TO RECEIVE HELP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED. KEEP IT IN THE THREADS WHERE EVERYONE CAN SHARE

Also could ask in
What's your next smartphone / What should I buy by poseidon5213
and
**DEVICE SUGGESTION THREAD** -- Not sure what device to buy? Ask here! by KidCarter93
Sent from my PH-1 using XDA Labs

I'm sorry that the responses weren't really helpful at all to the OP.
I'm also looking for a phone replacement for my 95 year old mother.
Any better info or recommendations ???

tt c6 said:
I'm sorry that the responses weren't really helpful at all to the OP.
I'm also looking for a phone replacement for my 95 year old mother.
Any better info or recommendations ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to recommending devices, it comes down to what purposes the user will use it for and what other things may evolve into doing with their device. It is virtually impossible for a 3rd party to project/expect what the user needs or what they would be comfortable with.
It's kinda like choosing a spouse, it isn't the kind of thing that someone else's opinion can help you with. What works for us might not work for you/them, its all about the individual.
Factors like: screen size, operating system, the interface and how easy it is to see, understand and use, amount if RAM and storage that is best for their needs, if they take photos and videos frequently then they'll need plenty of storage and expendable storage that is easy for them to use and remove/replace.
Factors like these are why suggestions can't really be made, especially suggestions from users here because users here are more familiar with devices that wouldn't be considered usable by non tech savvy seniors, virtually all of us here have no experience with devices that aren't the more mainstream devices used by millions. This website is completely centered around the modification and use if android software, our interests and knowledge are not in what is the latest greatest device or what features this device has compared to that device and what this or that device is best for. You need to go to some tech review websites for ideas and suggestions, that is what they focus on, coming to a website where the focus is software coding to ask for suggestions doesn't really serve your purposes very well when there are much better sources of infirnation that what anyone here could provide you with.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk

I disagree.
Most 95 year olds want the same thing, if not all of them.
The simplest phone to operate that will allow them to make phone calls.
I got my grandmother the only basic phone that is currently offered by T-mobile corporate: the Alcatel Go Flip.
She does NOT like it.
The "ring" around the "Go" button that is the only way to move up and down the selections is not physically large, or easy to see, let alone use.
In order to get to the contacts, you must press "Go" once, wait for the contacts to become "highlighted", then press "Go" again.
There should be ONE TOUCH entry into the contacts, and the up and down buttons should be clearly marked and easy to operate.
VERY disappointed in T-mobile for only offering one basic phone, and in Alcatel for making what should be a simple phone to operate, more difficult then it should be.
Can ANYONE offer a solution for a 95 year old that I can activate on T-mobile?
Thanks.
Positives for the Alcatel Go Flip:
- It utilizes all the current T-mobile bands
- It runs basically a scaled down Android OS.
You can log on to your gmail account from the Go Flip, and all of your Google contacts will be automatically imported into the Go Flip.

tt c6 said:
I disagree.
Most 95 year olds want the same thing, if not all of them.
The simplest phone to operate that will allow them to make phone calls.
I got my grandmother the only basic phone that is currently offered by T-mobile corporate: the Alcatel Go Flip.
She does NOT like it.
The "ring" around the "Go" button that is the only way to move up and down the selections is not physically large, or easy to see, let alone use.
In order to get to the contacts, you must press "Go" once, wait for the contacts to become "highlighted", then press "Go" again.
There should be ONE TOUCH entry into the contacts, and the up and down buttons should be clearly marked and easy to operate.
VERY disappointed in T-mobile for only offering one basic phone, and in Alcatel for making what should be a simple phone to operate, more difficult then it should be.
Can ANYONE offer a solution for a 95 year old that I can activate on T-mobile?
Thanks.
Positives for the Alcatel Go Flip:
- It utilizes all the current T-mobile bands
- It runs basically a scaled down Android OS.
You can log on to your gmail account from the Go Flip, and all of your Google contacts will be automatically imported into the Go Flip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I mean, I doubt you'll find anyone here familiar with devices that aren't specifically touchscreen only, and with that comes all of the factors I listed, how the OS is designed, screen size, visibility of the items on the screen, too many variables to give reasonable suggestions.
All I can say is find reviews for devices and see which of them have reviews from users mentioning how good the device is for seniors.
There is a thread here specifically for device suggestions and it is where all questions about suggestions are intended to be posted.
It will ultimately come down to them having the device in their hands before they buy it, that is the only way to see if it fits their needs/wants. Find reviews, make a list of 5-10 devices that you think are viable then go physically check demo models of each of them out to see what they think.
Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk

In the market for a new phone, probably new carrier, suggestions?

Hi pretty new here still, and already getting a new phone lol.
Quick Version
-Medium or + Cpu/Gfx performance
- affordable/cost effective (prefer $400 or -)
- Highly compatible with many ROMs, Recoveries, Easily unlocked either OEM allowed or well documented solid exploit, any other custom firmware capable etc.
- Prefer slots for SD card and/or Sim card work well, aren't jenky, if known. Decent Space if possible ~32GB+,
- True Airplane mode / Built in firewall? minimal concern but still nice
- Screen size, not a huge requirement, actually don't want something too large
- USB-C preference, very low on priority though
- "Tough firmware"? hard to perma-brick or has a good last resort that usually works, i.e. EDL cable or something
Original Post /Brainstorm below with more details
Little background, for the longest time I survived on an iphone 4s for various anti-social reasons
recently thats changed and been getting into phones more
Unfortunately I got suckered into a V500KL ZenFone 5 Live, a feature starved, bland, boot-loader locked, boring pos
well while trying to spruce it up i hard bricked it, and well, I brought it back
but in my frustration I destroyed something in the sim port while doing desperate last attempts before figuring out the correct UN-brick method.
(which Ive documented in my first post, its over in the zenfone 5 forum , check it out
oh and i promise the un-brick method didn't do it, shoving tweezers in a dead phone to see what i could reach, because phones been dead for days and YOLO was the cause of sim death lol.
so now i have a phone that can't be a phone... time for a new phone ya?
I wanna do it right and get opinions from pros and community opinions, so that would be here right?
So what am i looking for? decent performance, the V500KL was 2nd from the bottom pretty much for the ZenFone line i think.
I don't required the best for CPU/GFX performance, but definitely not bottom group tier.
With that said, affordable, no $1k phones please lol, maybe in the ballpark of.... $400 tops? the bigger bang but for less buck the better
I also want it to be a very compatible phone, i made the switch from my iPhone brand to android because they had a reputation, or used to, of being super customizable, rooting/jailbreaking was a non-issue etc.
Well i was shocked to find out that my V500KL had a locked bootloader with no OEM permission to unlock for that specific model.... i blame Verizon.
SO I want a phone that's unlock-able out of the box without having to do my own R&D on it, whether its OEM or a known solid exploit that's not going away either way works.
Also compatible with as many custom ROMs as possible, was very sad that CWM and TWRP were not compatible with my last phone and could never get magisk due to the boot loader.
- space, looking for 32GB give or take, with EASILY removable SD card expanded storage, not one that feels like its a d20 roll if its going to break every time
I suppose if i had to choose between the 2 it would be a smooth SD card slot though since I could always just get more SD lol, and this isn't something you can easily tell from a product sheet/page so input on this greatly appreciated .
- also extra plus if it has a easily removable sim card slot as well, or has a confirmed TRUE airplane mode.
(Verizon/Asus phones will still download FOTA/OTA updates even with wifi off and airplane mode on, mobile data off, etc.)
- Not really a screen size buff, so average size works i suppose, not against something a bit larger, but id rather it fit in something smaller than my cargo pockets
- Being USB-C would be nice, I've recently made a USB-C EDL cable so if it just so happens to be compatible or easily reconfigured for something/anything the phone may need one for could come in handy, fine with others though, more easy to get a charger from a friend, pros and cons i suppose.
- Tough to perma-brick, i abused the crap out of the software on my V500KL and never perma-bricked it, came close though, and its still not even bricked, i just fryed the sim card port... but its not bricked. Something hard to perma-brick would be nice, if it soft-bricks thats fine, and if hard-bricks are recoverable with an EDL cable thats a plus. Something thats just... perma-bricked prone somehow though, would make me nervous.
well that's all i can really think of....
if there's any key detail that needs to be added ill be happy to add, and if anyone else has a similar list feel free to thread hijack lol I'm just reaching for whats out there and really anything with some hands-on-experince information is appreciated. im in no rush and just wanna know whats good out there .