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Why I am beginnig to hate WM devices...

In the last days, I am thinking about the many features last devices have, and "poor" WM functions...
I had a Universal, then a Kaiser, and now a Raphael, and...I mean, big hardware development has been made, but, the SO is almost the same, and I do not think we are using the real potential of our devices, isn't it?!
I mean, we can read email, but what I would really want is to have ALL my emails with me in my PDA and in my Pc, to use more than one email account, but, the only way to have ALL our emails synced in our PDAs and PCs, is paying for an Exchange Server access, but, we can use only ONE Exchange server, so we have to switch to IMAP, but using IMAP means using third part software because the WM email client does not allow us to store sent email in the right IMAP server folder (which can change from server to server), and, if I use a third part software for email, I cannot use the latest HTC "people centric communication feature", I cannot use the latest TF3D2 mail page, etc...so have an advanced email system is not possible yet...correct me if I am wrong.
But I want go deeper. Most of the things we can do today with our devices (like surfing the net) it is almost not possible "on the go", it is very difficult reply an email while I am walking, or while I am driving, it is difficult read a post on this forum and replay here, it is difficult write a text message without using both hand for the stylus or with an hardware keyboard...I mean, doing things like these are easy if we are sitted down, with both hands free, and if I should be sitted down with both hands free, I also could use a laptop, or netbook, or something like that. MS has made Voice Command, but only in three languages....
What I am trying to say is that what we really need in our devices is a completely different approch, would be useful if I am in my car, I receive a text message or email, and my device can READ it for me , or if I have to write a text, I can dictate it to my device. I would like that my phone reads my RSS while I am driving, because it CPU can handle a job like this.
We have 500/600 Mhz CPU for doing what? Appreciate graphical game on TF3D2?! In the next month will be sold a new device with a 1Ghz CPU for doing what?! The same things we are doing today?!
And think about Android, a young operating system that is 2 years old that almost do the same things that our MS operating system does from 1999?! Why we are changing our devices? What has been offered to us to justify spending 500/600/700 USD or EUR for new devices?
What do you do with your phone? Send some email? trying to open 10 web pages per day? Manage a calendar? Use a navigation software? I almost could do the same things with a cheapear phone, I phone that I must not reset once a day!
Sorry for my post and for the bad English, but something is not very clear in my mind...Am I becoming crazy?!

My friend you are absolutelly right.
I have changed many phones and have used different operating systems and i can say that more or less they are all the same. So the phones are not so innovative as the hardware allows them to be. Maybe the programmers have something else in mind when they develop new user interfaces but that something is getting old... The most innovative thing i have seen in a handset is in one of nokia's "cheaper" phones the e-50 which can read your messages. It's small but it's something! plus you don't have to pay a month's sallary to get it right? I believe that the only reason for this stagnancy (i don't know if this is a word ) is that each company is hesitating to try something new just because people buy the devices as they are, which probably means they like them. So why change something???
I wish that people with ideas like yours were the ones making the OS. Things would be very different then.
I really liked your post it makes you wonder....

simply insane!!!
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...

Lack of comparative discussion
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Don't get me wrong, there's really no excuse for the limitations of MS's own mobile OS when interacting with MS's Exchange technology.
Some have tried to fake voice control, and there's even a couple of apps that have been around for several years that make some minor steps in the right direction, but none of them function well enough to be considered 90% functional (which would seem to be the general expectation for consumer targeted devices).
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.

+ Que PPC said:
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
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Click to collapse
Simply because I would like to know what others users and developers think...I have to said to let our devices fly outside the window, or said something offensive...Our devices today are much more usefull than the stock version just because there is a community like this where people develop piece of software or port entire rom, and I very thank all of theme. Playing with our device is also a hobby, but i really believe that big companies like HTC and others, should do a better work on these devices for how much they cost. That's it.

speed_pour said:
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right, I am not having other OS since 2004, I do not want to say the others are better, I say that if I pay my PDA 700 EUR against 350 for another phone that does "almost" the same things...I pay 700 EUR but I would like something more...stable, or more advanced.
speed_pour said:
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
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Click to collapse
I partially agree with you, just to report some example, I left my Kaiser for my Raphael, and my Raphael has g-sensor, it also had the old HCT Album 2.5 which rotated pictures using the g-sensor, and this was a must using the TV-OUT cable, but now, with HTC Album 3, the g-sensor rotate features is gone...so when you see picture on the TV using the TV-OUT cable, you cannot rotate photos any more..why?! Or what about the latest TF3D2 with its calendar tab?! Yes, it is cool, but it require 10 seconds to show all the appointments on each month...while the old calendar app is fast. What I mean is that I feel that they do not make a "perfect" phone while they could, because nobody will buy another phone after, I feel like they always miss something, or left something not working (like the GD driver on Kaiser) so that people continue spending money buying new devices.
speed_pour said:
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am anxious to see some "really" improvements on this side, but I also think that MS has waited to much for doing something...
speed_pour said:
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you

Need help deciding on which phone to get next Pre or Touch pro

I was wondering what phone to get either the Touch pro or palm pre... I have a sero account right now but im willing to switch plans for the pre. I have a motorola q right now and its a pos lol always crashing and whatnot. Can anyone that have experience with both phones tell me which one is better? I used the pre at the sprint store and liked it and i have played a little with the TP but i found the touch screen doesn't seem to work very good is this something a custom rom would fix? I can get a Touch pro off ebay for the same price as the pre on a 2 year contract.

Welcome to forums
Go for touch pro 2
You´ll have as an extra added value the great support of this site, with pre you won´t

when does the tp2 come out? i've been trying to find a release date for it but havnt found anything so far.

It´s already on sale since 1st days of july
That will depend on what part of the world you live in, but you can always buy it online!!

Palm Pre or HTC TOUCH PRO (I/II)
I think it totally depends on the reasons for which you intend to use the prospective phone. For example, if you are primarily looking to use the phone for voice calls and internet service and that is all, the Pre becomes a very attrative option (notwithstanding allegations of design and manufacturing defects in relation to the device's housing, LCD, keyboard, and sliding mechanism. See ZDNET.com and conduct a search with this in mind.) Assuming those alleged issues are either non-issues or have been resolved, the Pre seems to be ideal for the non-power user. Beware however, I understand the Pre does NOT have Bluetooth capacity. This, it seems to me, could pose to be a deal-breaker for a number of users who rely heavily on Bluetooth headsets, REDFLY Mobile Companions, remote contact synchronization, and add-on QWERTY/Mice solutions.
As to the Htc Touch Pro line of devices and their varied analogs: There has been some allegations of slow performance notwithstanding the processor installed therein. In fact, I've tested the Diamond (I) and Pro(I) extensively and found the Pro(I) to be significantly zippier than the Diamond (I). But if you consider the impending release of devices such as the Toshiba TG01 and HTC THOTH (fouth in the Advantage line of devices) both of which are slated to sport 1GHz processors and greater than 4" displays. This is quite compelling when you consider the existing specs of the Pro(I) and Pro(II). Conversely, the Palm PRE is a tiny little package for what you get and all that it does to simplify how users interface with the phone. Toward that end, I recommend comparing the Palm Pre with the SAMSUNG S30. Also use caution when signing two-year agreements that fundamentaly change your rates, data access terms, and do so as a REQUIREMENT to getting the phone AT ALL within your upgrade eligibility.
SOLUTION: I recommend getting either a Toshiba TG01 or HTC THOTH if you are a "super-duper" power user. If you are a regular power user, get the HTC Touch PRO (II), (I), or something in the Diamond line of devices (in that order). THEN, go to palm's open source website, and download the background picture of the "Today Screen" for the Palm Pre. Open the cab file in the Pro's Picture/Video application. From the right menu option, choose the option to set that picture as your today screen, reducing the brightness according to taste. Then, go to your TouchFLO 3D settings and do the same. Presto! You have an HTC TOUCH PRO series device and all the beauty that can be found in any of the ROMs herein at your disposal. Be sure to donate accordingly. Plus you have it with the Pre "look and feel". Alternatively, you could (if relatively industrious) snag a copy of TealPoint's TealOS, and try running it's trial version on an old compatible Palm device if you have one collecting dust, just to see if you would indeed enjoy the interface, or get tired of it after a while. I do both of these options in re my Touch Pro (I) and Palm LifeDrive. My LifeDrive is the largest Palm Pre human-kind will never know. It's actually quite novel. I think of it as my "Jump-Drive-With-A-Touchscreen", As I also run ANDROID on both devices, I have a "dual-OS" for each--providing a measure of continuity between the two. Again, it's not overkill, because to me, the LD is just the mother of all jump-drives--nothing more.
Hope this discussion helped and these examples provide you with useful ideas. Keep in mind, above all, give some real thought and reflection to exactly what kind of "user" you actually are, not what you want to be or would like to think of yourself as being. If the most you do on a daily basis is make calls and surf the net . . . I'd be dubious of making a substantial investment into ANY phone that provides "everything & the kitchen sink". Do not for that matter, be overly swayed by hardware-based QWERTY keyboards included thereon. Virtual keyboards are getting better and better these days--and if the keyboard is there, eating up some memory anyway, us might as well use it. I think you'll be surprised even with a hardware QWERTY, how much LESS you end up using it than anticipated.
Good luck to you,
LWBIIPLLC

LWBIIPLLC said:
Virtual keyboards are getting better and better these days--and if the keyboard is there, eating up some memory anyway, us might as well use it. I think you'll be surprised even with a hardware QWERTY, how much LESS you end up using it than anticipated.
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I must disagree with that statement
I have used/tested a lot of non hardware keyboard devices and to this date there is no better way to type on a device than with a hardware keyboard.
As stated above, all will depend on the use you´ll give to a device, but believe me, if you are thinking on typing a lot (SMS, email) I recommend you a hardware keyboard device.
Just my opinion based on my experience...

"Hard" vrs. "Soft" Keyboards & Choice of Device
I DON'T disagree with Orb in contending hard keyboards are "preferred" to soft keyboards in so far as this agrees with the USER'S customary use. I simply stated that hard keyboards are not the be-all-end-all and should not be the SOLE and DETERMINING factor when one chooses his or her device.
Clearly each pose difficulties. This is why we see so many of us installing a number of keyboard software applications on our devices. As within even the micro-analysis of software, we often find one modality to work better given the pressures of the task at hand. (eg. while the Touch Full Keyboard is outstanding in its large virtual keys, and so too are others such as TouchPal, Spb's Keyboard, etc. these don't allow for easy cut and past and copying; much less selective highlighting using the Ctrl key). Hence, as I do this kind of task a lot in my line of work, I end up using what I originally thought was THE most useless keyboard on my Touch Pro. Similarly, if you are a person who enters numbers quite a bit, I doubt you want to constantly want to select a specific number pad that then disappears upon entry of each number. Additionally, the applications you use are a large factor that effect how you enter information on your device. How many of us with full hard QWERTY keyboards choose to slide rather than to hit our front panel and dial by screen when dialing a number not in our contacts? But Orb is right . . . when texting and writing anything of any substance, you will quickly get frustrated with a software based keyboard. But expanding on Orb's astute observations, if it is indeed the case that you must frequently do a lot of data entry or pros writing, and you've assessed your "usage trends" accurately, then I agree and FURTHER recommend an extended keyboard via bluetooth, such as a Stowaway BT keyboarde or iTech Laser VKB/Celluon CL850 VKB, or a REDFLY Mobile Companion terminal. That said, none of this discussion even tinkers with the notion of use of a "transcriber" for handwritten text entry. Finally, one has to consider frankly, in the event such text entry is such a predominant task, whether one should be performing a task of that kind on a "phone" versus a more text-friendly device. Remember when we all got excited when it was alleged that we can work up PowerPoint presentations and Excel spreadsheets on our phones? And then they gave us a tiny virtual keyboard to do it. Did the prospect of performing such tasks get substancially more attractive WITH a hardware keyboard? Admitedly . . . yes. But did we have a measure of "let-down" when the task did not prove effortless even with the hardware QWERTY? I still contend I and others did get let down a bit. So now, the name of the game is: Adaptation.
In the world of technology, I contend Darwinianism does not apply. It is not a question of survival of the fittest. It is a quesiton of who and what devices can "adapt" to the changing needs of the consumer; indeed the specific needs of a specific user as a specific situation may so require. Or are there still those who would contend otherwise: that it is nevertheless feasible to bring an Elephant Gun to an Easter Egg Hunt? Unless the eggs are Dinosaur eggs. ; ) LWBIIPLLC

orb3000 said:
I must disagree with that statement
I have used/tested a lot of non hardware keyboard devices and to this date there is no better way to type on a device than with a hardware keyboard.
As stated above, all will depend on the use you´ll give to a device, but believe me, if you are thinking on typing a lot (SMS, email) I recommend you a hardware keyboard device.
Just my opinion based on my experience...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true
take a close look at pre keys. they are crap. as bad as the blackberrys.
forget both and go with tp2
it has the best keyboard ever
in us you can pick up now at tmobile if you dont mind the ****ty service.
i am waiting for verizon, but both sprint and Verizon will have it soon

cyberhern said:
Very true
take a close look at pre keys. they are crap. as bad as the blackberrys.
forget both and go with tp2
it has the best keyboard ever
in us you can pick up now at tmobile if you dont mind the ****ty service.
i am waiting for verizon, but both sprint and Verizon will have it soon
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Click to collapse
Correction: The best keyboard ever is the one from Universal!!

orb3000 said:
Correction: The best keyboard ever is the one from Universal!!
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Click to collapse
Then you should try the keyboard for the unlocked TP2.

Just registered here and was looking for a discussion similar to this. I am going to try to talk T-Mo USA into letting me upgrade next month as I just went through 2 BlackBerry 8120s in 14 months. I am liking the TP2 but they also have the Dash 3G.
A few questions:
1. What is the keyboard like? T-Mo doesn't have any dummy phones in stock so I can't try it out. I text/IM/email/social network all the time.
2. What Twitter and MySpace apps do you all recommend? I have already picked out what I want to use for IM (BeeJive for WM). I am also going to get the FaceBook WM app.
3. Any other things I need to be aware of before getting either one? Upgrade capability to WM 7?
4. Which device would actually fit my needs better due to the questions above?

EricaJ1073 said:
Just registered here and was looking for a discussion similar to this. I am going to try to talk T-Mo USA into letting me upgrade next month as I just went through 2 BlackBerry 8120s in 14 months. I am liking the TP2 but they also have the Dash 3G.
A few questions:
1. What is the keyboard like? T-Mo doesn't have any dummy phones in stock so I can't try it out. I text/IM/email/social network all the time.
2. What Twitter and MySpace apps do you all recommend? I have already picked out what I want to use for IM (BeeJive for WM). I am also going to get the FaceBook WM app.
3. Any other things I need to be aware of before getting either one? Upgrade capability to WM 7?
4. Which device would actually fit my needs better due to the questions above?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. The keyboard is a very responsive and well spaced keys compared with the Touch Pro keyboard, with the freature of the tilting screen like the Kaiser. With the retro light became a very good keyboard to use everytime and every day.
2. Facebook App you already have it with the HTC equipment. It's preinstaled. If yoo have the Messenger, IM already also in the phone software.
3. WM7 will be for sure compatible, but not in official rom (with the Touch Pro2 and Diamond 2 you get the free update for the 6.5 in end september/october. WM7 problably only with cooked roms.
4. HTC Touch Pro2 for sure.

Why ‘o’ why will they not learn

After owning HTC phones now for over 3 years, when will HTC start listening to people on forums like this one and htcpedia.com, then start making phones with the features that we are asking & waiting for. And just as important when will they start making accessories for these phones. Now owning a Touch HD for over a year I was looking at getting the new HD2, but it appears the mini usb port still does not support music or porting video through it (this is also true on the Touch HD yes I was disappointed when I found out). I would also like to have a built in FM transmitter. I think HTC are missing out on a great future for their phones.
Jez
P.S come on HTC sit up and take notice.

Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .

Livven said:
Contact HTC, if there are enough requests, they'll perhaps listen to you. Better than crying here .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello Livven
Not crying just disappointed with HTC and thinking maybe it’s time to change, to a phone producer that is listening ,it appears that’s exactly what apple are doing. Been in touch with HTC direct about a month after I got the Touch HD asking them to include certain things on the next model and a year later the HD2 was launched which appears to be a big screen HD with no more capabilities.
Cheers jez

I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.

Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop

markgamber said:
I got tired of HTC's short-sightedness and bought an iPhone. It's a nice phone but it doesn't have nearly the feature set of a WinMo phone and Apple is a total pain in the ass. I'm still not thrilled about HTC so I just bought the LG Expo and, as I write this, I'm boxing it up to return it to AT&T. The hardware specs look pretty good but there are just too many things wrong with this phone that can't be overlooked. To start with, the UI is just awful. The bland, painful Microsoft stock UI is actually easier to deal with, in my opinion. It takes a dozen taps to do almost anything and you really need a stylus to get anything done. Which leads to problem #2...the stylus. It's like a little tube of lipstick which also means it's not attached to the phone. I wonder how many days would take before it got lost? You can attach it via a little string but it's beyond stupid that this got past QA. Then there's the GPS. It comes with AT&T's GPS app but I have my own that I've used for quite some over on a variety of phones without a problem. It will not recognize the GPS in the Expo, however, and therefore won't work. Strike three, you're outta here. So as I mentioned, I'm boxing it up and taking it back either for a refund or, if they'll do it, a trade for the Tilt 2 or something from...sigh....HTC. Despite some of the dumb things they do on occasion, HTC is still the best WinMo phone manufacturer I know of.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi Mark
I hear your frustration about the eXpo....I bought a IQ from Telus (the Canadian version of the eXpo) and really didn't like the UI AT FIRST. But the phone has really grown on me. Maybe you should consider keeping it for a couple of weeks, and then giving it back if you still want to.
1) I now find I am figuring out the UI and I am starting to like it. Using Throttle Launcher(free) or Spd Shell($) are both options that are very similar to the TF3D or Sence UI if you really find you want to abandon the S Class UI but I would say try it for a week or two and you may like it...there are things you can do faster than TF3D as well as slower.
2) The stylus situation really sucks. No argument. I have found that after I set my phone up, I can get by without one especially when you figure out how to use the optical mouse functions.
3) GPS I am on Telus, so maybe AT&T has screwed you, but my Garmin Mobile XT software works just fine on my Telus phone. I did have to play a bit though. I installed the Garmin software, and it couldn't find the GPS. I then went into the windows settings, and set up the phone to use COM port 4, and then went into the Garmin setup and selected COM4. STILL no joy. But I then changed the Windows setting back to controlled by windows, and the Garmin software found a "GPS Intermediate Driver". Works great! Locks FAST, and no lag like when I used the Garmin Mobile XT on my Touch Pro.
I have installed Opera Beta 2U, and it with the HSPDA data and the snapdragon it is simply is the best mobile internet experience I have ever used or seen.
Good luck with you Phone hunting,

Hi jez.stix
I have a similar list to you...I got a Telus IQ (Its a Canadian eXpo)
How the IQ compares to your list:
1. winmo
YUP 6.5 (21868)
2. gps for satnav YUP - but check into this (See above ATT may have locked to there software)
3. fm transmitter YUP....sorry! Read this as receiver, Has a FM receiver but no transmitter to go to your car stereo..
4. tv out. YUP
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station ...not sure what you mean here..if you mean like all the docking stuff they sell at Walmart for IPhones..NOPE..of course it has a USB connection.
6. 3.5mm headphone socket NOPE
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works YUP..works quite well with flash
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up YUP OH YAH BIG TIME
The real down side is that it is not a HTC unit so XDA won't support it the way they do a HTC product. I decided I could live with that but that was the hardest pill to swallow. The build quallity is heads and shoulders above my old HTC Touch Pro
good luck in finding your dream phone.

jez.stix said:
Hello markgamber
I know where you are coming from I had the Samsung Omnia last year for a month and sent it back because it was crap, it had the same idea for the stylus as well, a piece of string to attach it to the phone. Maybe Iphone is not the way to go then. It’s I’m getting politely frustrated with spending a small fortune on phones that do only half of what I want it to do. That’s the thing, these manufactures forget these phones aren’t cheap to us, it just seems to me they are thick and they think they know what we want . I know what I want on my phone
1. winmo
2. gps for satnav
3. fm transmitter
4. tv out.
5. usb port to play music through using a docking station
6. 3.5mm headphone socket
7. a 5+ meg pixel camera that actually works
8. gprs thats is quicker than the old 56k dial up
And so the storey goes on. Hopefully someone from HTC will read our thoughts and do something about it for the next model. If they do read these comments email me HTC and I will let you know what we want from our £500 phones. Bloody hell more money for a phone than a high spec laptop
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Click to collapse
The iPhone is actually pretty nice, I just had a couple technical problems with it and, being a dev, I grew really tired of Apple dictating what I can and can't do with my phone and my apps. The most notable thing about the iPhone is that it's fast. When you start a program, it's up and running in short order and stays fast unless it has to do something really intensive or relies on a slow network connection. This being opposed to WinMo where it can sometimes take forever to do anything. This is, of course, because the iPhone doesn't do much real multitasking but if that's not an issue, then the iPhone probably warrants a look. Another problem I had was that most of the world uses WMV/WMA for streaming audio and video and the iPhone not only doesn't support it, Apple has stated that it won't approve anything that does support it. Sometimes you can get around that using Orb but not always and that leads to the third big problem I had with the iPhone, Apple's little tinpot dictator attitude. I've been using Slingplayer for years on WinMo phones and yes, AT&T says you can't use it but the practical side is that as long as you're not an a-hole about it, they don't really care. The bottom line is that I can make the choice about whether or not I want to use it. iPhone's Slingplayer simply doesn't have the option to work over 3G. In fact, the only app of that kind which did was Orb and, as I hear it, Orb Networks just removed it on orders from AT&T and Apple. Technically yes, you can jailbreak the iPhone, install a hack that fools programs into thinking 3G is wifi and those various programs work, but it's a hack and not something you can count on working with the next system update since Apple is working hard to prevent those kinds of hacks from working. Plus they're starting to be exploited by hackers of a less than friendly nature. The iPhone also didn't support what I considered some basic functionality such as cut/copy/paste, MMS and bluetooth audio, for quite some time. When Apple finally decided to include that functionality, they acted as though they invented it. That continues today with the lack of quite a bit of multimedia types, refusal to allow Flash or any browser other than Safari, any kind of advanced bluetooth functionality, multitasking and so on. Again, if you don't care about any of the above, you should probably take a look at the iPhone if only for comparison. It's also *VERY* finger friendly, much moreso than WinMo, and you don't like having to wield a stylus at all, I'd definitely take a look at the iPhone.
I don't know why these WinMo companies are so slow to adopt things that seem like basic functionality to many users but they do improve their products, albiet slowly at times, and they're still a magnitude better than the competition, in my opinion. The HTC Titan sold by Sprint was, without a doubt, the worse piece of garbage I ever owned. HTC actually had the balls to put a measly 128mb of ram in there, put WinMo 6 on it and then let Sprint add all it's worthless slop to it. The bottom line was that it took half a day to boot and when it was finally done, it left somewhere between 8 and 12mb free...not even enough to run Slingplayer. Sprint charged $600 for that chunk of s*it and when I raised hell about it, Sprint not only refused to take it back, they wouldn't even cut me a break on what I had to buy to replace it. That's why I'm now with AT&T. So HTC (and other companies) do improve their products. One valuable thing about the Titan was that I learned to buy a phone for what it can do, not what it's capable of doing.
That's my main problem with the Expo and why I returned it. On paper it's a nice phone and there's a lot of potential in the hardware that is either unrealized or lost in the mess LG slapped together. Hopefully LG improves the system over time but right now it's pretty awful, in my opinion, and no update will ever help that poorly implemented stylus and, most likely, the poor battery life.

htc response
thanks for your email. You are correct, The HD and HD2 do not have TV out. Only the Touch PR line of devices has TV out for using with presentations and the like. The TV Out function was not highly requested in the market research that we did, so we concentrated on what the request were mostly for...larger screen, multitouch, standard 3.5mm jack etc. TV out was very far down on the list of wanted features. As for the music abilities, the only thing i know of that was removed on the HD2 was the remote control. This has returned on the HD2 as we needed to develop one that worked with the standard 3.5 jack that the majority of our customers wanted. This was the only thing removed from the HD. We think we must be doing something right as we are selling more handsets than ever, and winning lots of awards for our handsets as well. However, obviously you cannot please everyone, and if we have failed to meet your needs then i apologise, and hope that whatever device you choose, whether it be one of ours or not, i hope that you will be happy with it and it is everything you want. Best regards, Pete W HTC

I once contacted HTC about their lack of attention to this site.
The response i got made a lot of sense sadly.
Because of all the ROMs made on here and all the software that we reverse engineer from them and others, they cannot associate themselves with us at all due to illegality.
But still, this being the case, I think they could still use this site as a good place to do market research upon. Just because xda-devs is the largest collection of winmo users in one place that I know of, it seems to be the perfect place for them to go to see what their end users want.
I am a designer myself and it seems stupid to ignore the biggest resource of research and ideas.

Htc 7 pro - warning - do not buy !

Hello
I just want to warn everybody that want to buy HTC 7 PRO. It has been 5 days since it arrived from UK. It is already packed and ready for a journey back to reseller. It suppose to be a business tool but it with that kind of battery life it is just a joke. But U can somehow manage the juice usage and it is not the worst part. The worst thing about it is sliding mechanism. There are "reviews" all over the internet saying that great and durable. But it is a lie. It is weak designed and the build quality is also not so good. It makes "spring like" sound when it tilts and what annoy me the most is that after 5 days front part of mechanism wobbles. The keyboard is awesome but in combine with such poor sliding mechanism it is not a thumb up at all. I can not imagine how this mechanism will behave after couple of months with heavy business usage and seriously I really do not want to know. If You will add to this poor built headset Windows Phone 7, which is in my opinion awesome but still have a lot missing the HTC 7 PRO it is not a good choice. And I seriously do not recommend to buy it. The most funny part is the HTC customer support. I shared my concerns with them and they replied:
"all I can advise you is to use both hands when sliding the mechanism"
I expected the answer like "we tested the mechanism in advanced tests and it is designed to take a lot of hard usage"
but noooo they just advised me to use both hands. I wasn't quite sure if I want to send it back, but after I read their reply I will send it back for sure.
Of course the HTC BH M300 which was free gift has to be sent back also
I do not care that I spend a lot for delivery both ways I do not want to have this phone in my pocket, it is not worth even half money it costs.
Cheers
Pawel

Thanks for the heads-up. Have been wanting a landscape slider and looked at the Quantum, but I couldn't type good with it so I passed it by. If not knowing the user experience of the 7 Pro, I like its looks well enough to consider it. But thanks to you, I can discard it.

marianoitalianoo said:
There are "reviews" all over the internet saying that great and durable. But it is a lie.
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Did you ever think about the possibility that you've simply got a broken device?

I agree, I just got my hands on one and it's terrible... the battery life is at best on par with the HD7 and the keyboard though decently laid out feels cheap. the sliding mechanism is gritty and I do hear that spring noise...

I received mine from O2 Germany three days ago and I'd like to share my opinion that is much more favourable than the above posts.
On the hardware, I will not mention things that we all could miss such as a front camera, a micro SD card slot, I'll concentrate on what we have:
- tilt screen, I love this! You will hear a spring noise when sliding and tilting the keyboard out, yes. So what? Usage will show if it has been badly designed and cannot resist prolounged usage (and if so, it will be my pleasure to send it back to O2 during the warranty period to get a replacement phone).
- the screen is crisp, has a good contrast and is very responsive, I do not have any complaints here
- the sound is much better than past HTC phones I had such as Qtek S200, HTC Touch Pro, Blackstone and even HD2
- the material of the keyboard is of the type "grip" plastic and suits my taste. The keyboard is rather well designed, BUT we miss the ability to change language from within the hardware keyboard itself (the Touch Pro allowed this and it was very useful) and the ability to get CAPS LOCK - both issues very annoying. In comparison, the smileys key is really useless in a business phone and could have been replaced with a more useful feature!
- as far as the battery is concerned: as I am currently roaming, I have chosen to be in 2G mode, no wan access and with w-lan always on. I have the phone sync with 4 email accounts, three calendars, three contacts databses, and facebook + windows live. I managed to have the phone on with no recharge for two full days, with one hour of calls and approx. 40 internet pages browsed! I suspect that in 3G mode, with wan access an wlan on, this will drastically fall and result in the phone surviving less than a day on an intial full charge (same as with HD2 or similar devices, actually). I shall report when I have tested this.
- Before receiving the device, I was a little bit concerned about weight. Although it would be nice to have it 60 grams lighter, which would be quite a performance for its format, it is actually not an issue: the phone is simply big and I know this before buying it
- Speed is always very dependent on the OS. With WP7, it feels more responsive than a HD2 with Sense
- Mass storage: 8 Gb of which "only" 5.6 available is enough for my needs, but definitely too tight for those who want to carry 20 music albums and 5 full films with themselves (which is not an unreasonable expectation). The good surprise however is the speed at which files are being transferred from the PC to the phone (I did not measure it but it was definitely quicker than my class 4 SD Card with 64kb cluster size)
On the software (sigh):
- first feel of a system that is straightforward to understand and to use but...
- no copy paste. Other WP7 limitations such as lack of customization possibilities or lack of flash support or limited landscape support. We were warned. I personally can live with it.
- typical windows narrow-minded approach: exchange does not work if the certificate of the server is not matching its IP address, although iOS and Android support this with no problem, this makes me crazy!
- need to use exchange or windows live to replicate contacts and agenda, no active sync anymore. Lots of time lost to find a way to get Outlook synchronyze with the Phone via Outlook Connector. Need to copy paste contacts and calendar between Outlook main account and Windows live, no automatic synchronization between the two within Outlook - very very very poor design of the whole ecosystem
- need to use Zune. Cute programme but redundant with Windows Media Player WMC. MTS video format (used by my Lumix HD camera) seemingly not supported. Android does.
- only English, German an Spanish languages supported by the phone delivered by O2. I need more languages such as Italian and French
- no smart dial nor the possibility to jump to a contact by entering the first letters of it - you have to scroll the contacs or use the search functon, a real pain!
All in all, I think it is a good bit of hardware for business purposes, even if not at the forefront of the current possibilities (amoled screen, tegra processor, storage). You can live with the OS but it has to improve quickly to live up to its ergonomy promises. The reasons I did not buy the Desire Z were the processor, the three rows keyboard (instead of four) and the screen not tilting. The reason why I would not buy the HTC 7 Pro is... WP7. I've hesitated long and I've decided to stick to the device in the hope that WP7 improves soon, but I also hope that we will soon be able thanks to the XDA community to load other OS such as Android on it should Microsoft not deliver

Thanks,
I saw your reply and ended up with HD7. great device.

Prophete said:
Usage will show if it has been badly designed and cannot resist prolounged usage (and if so, it will be my pleasure to send it back to O2 during the warranty period to get a replacement phone)
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I asked HTC what if in time the sliding mechanism will fail to deliver high usability let say and just break.
They said that warranty do not cover "wear and tear" , so if it will get damaged, You will get nothing from O2, maybe some stickers or key chain

it's the same thing htc singapore told me before
i went to replace the keyboard on my touch pro twice
the same keys failed both times (0, space bar, backspace)
guess what? they told me to use the onscreen keyboard more! if so, what is the point of buying a phone with a physical keyboard?

I am ashamed to say that It turns out that the only thing that actually works as supposed to is iphone :/

I have a love/hate relationship with HTC.
Most, if not all of their devices are very beautifully-looking. But I will always question their build quality, and that's ultimately their downfall, because it's ****. I mean, it's hit or miss with their devices. They either knock it out of the ballpark or fail at something that makes you scratch your head and wonder. For example, something as simple as their power buttons. But I won't get into it. I wouldn't be surprised if the keyboard on the HTC 7 Pro fails after prolonged use.

Hello All,
I just wanted to add my 5 cents...
I bought an HTC 7 Pro almost as soon as they were available from O2 Germany since they are not available in Luxembourg.
I have to say that the device is great!!
The tilt mechanism is smooth, and works really well. The battery life is fantastic!! I have sync with my exchange server running all day and with that, phone calls (not too many), using the GPS etc, I have so far never gone below 50% battery.
I wonder if HTC have manufacturing problem because you seem to be less happy, but I can honestly say that I find the phone to be GREAT and would HIGHLY recommend it!!

Hi, I also do not agree. The phone is great.
Indeed you need to slide with two hands, but a springy sound does not bother me. It probably is a spring If anything breaks than I expect normal warrenty.
WP7 is a blast! I needed to set my PC to US to trick Marketplace, but otherwise it is great. Many apps already and more on the way.
That was my 5 cts.

Maybe my problem is that I expected much more for the price. The price is only a bit less then Iphone 4 which costs in UK 510 quids. But the build quality of i device is a lot better.
I really like WP7 and iOS looks childish a bit

Just posted to Clove cheers

Just picked up mine from Sprint today and I have to say it is well built and I'm loving WP7 so far!

I to just got the Arrive and I have to say, it is definatly worth changing over from my Evo. I've been playing with this all day and havn't had to charge it yet (going off the initial charge it had from factory).
The keyboard works great, device tilts wonderful and while i'll admit, it's not the easiest to open one handed, it's still possible.
Nothing like the TP2 if anyone is wondering, it's alot slicker, feels better, works better.

WARNING!!!
Do NOT install and run the free HTC app "Connection Setup" with the Sprint Arrive.
I had to hard reset multiple times until I narrowed it down with Sprint Tech Support (who said they had an HTC Tech Rep on site during this launch). If you run it with Sprint as your carrier it will lockout your data connection until you hard reset (wifi will still work though). It took me a while to figure out which app screws up while on the phone with them, but it's definately this app and they confirmed it with an Arrive they had on hand. They still haven't removed it from the Marketplace yet, so here's your fair warning.
Hopefully this will save someone a lot of time and frustration after setting up your phone, only to have to redo it all over again. Cheers.

I am the Arrive advocate at my Sprint store, and I can confirm that I had the same issue with the HTC connection setup program. After hard resetting the phone my data connection came right back, but DO NOT download that program as of this point.

I was getting download speeds between 71kbps and 300kbps. I used the HTC connection setup and it also borked the data. It took me 2 hard resets and like 8 tries forcing data provision until it worked again.
I'm still getting piss poor download speeds and so it my TP2 that is on the same plan. I'm calling Sprint tomorrow to have an engineer look at my account settings. The Sprint store employee said he could do nothing if it was working at all. Had mine since 3/18.

Thanks Savage for the heads up! I was looking at that app until I read your posts.

[Q] What phone should I buy?(specific personal needs to factor in)

Hello, newb, I searched and skimmed the first couple of dozen results but didn't find what I need.
I'll try and keep the background to my request brief, you're not bothered about my life story, but a few bits of info are relevant to the question; I have a form of High Function Autism, one of the symptoms of which is that I have real trouble with "day to day" stuff - I can spend two days straight reading physics papers or writing short fiction, but keeping track of appointments, even remembering to do simple stuff like take a shower or put my clothes in the washing machine is a struggle. Until recently, my mum was around to remind me to do stuff and nag me when I didn't, alas she recently passed away.
So, in trying to find new coping strategies, it occurred to me that I might use an android smartphone as a personal organiser, set up in such a way as to give me daily reminders for basic things and also to manage appointments. The issue is I'm a bit lost as to what to actually buy. Are the sort of apps which would meet my needs hardware intensive? Do I have to shell out for an SGS2, or would something like an HTC Wildfire be enough?
Essentially, I'm looking for a handset which has a decent battery life, a decent screen size(I have ludicrously large hands), which can serve as a personal organiser, main phone(no point in having a landline as well), and occasional portable music player, and I don't want to overspend. I'm in the UK, and the handset would have to be available sim-free and unlocked, as I'll be going pay as you go and will likely use giffgaff.
Any recommendations or advice you can offer would be appreciated.
EDIT: Rats, I forgot to mention, being DLNA-compliant would be handy but not essential - I've no idea if that's a common feature on smartphones, as I've never actually owned one before.

Hi and welcome.
I'd recommend a large screen "making user input easier" but that doesn't mean needs to be SGSII, some great device's even though ageing are the Desire HD / Atrix / LGO2X and they can be found at a decent price.
Regarding keeping track and having formality then nearly every android device will do this with the many pieces of software available on the market, not intensive @ all either.
Device data base has allot of info regarding specification - link @ top page. "if anything is baffling feel free to PM"
Not sure DLNA has certified android phones.