I was wondering what phone to get either the Touch pro or palm pre... I have a sero account right now but im willing to switch plans for the pre. I have a motorola q right now and its a pos lol always crashing and whatnot. Can anyone that have experience with both phones tell me which one is better? I used the pre at the sprint store and liked it and i have played a little with the TP but i found the touch screen doesn't seem to work very good is this something a custom rom would fix? I can get a Touch pro off ebay for the same price as the pre on a 2 year contract.
Welcome to forums
Go for touch pro 2
You´ll have as an extra added value the great support of this site, with pre you won´t
when does the tp2 come out? i've been trying to find a release date for it but havnt found anything so far.
It´s already on sale since 1st days of july
That will depend on what part of the world you live in, but you can always buy it online!!
Palm Pre or HTC TOUCH PRO (I/II)
I think it totally depends on the reasons for which you intend to use the prospective phone. For example, if you are primarily looking to use the phone for voice calls and internet service and that is all, the Pre becomes a very attrative option (notwithstanding allegations of design and manufacturing defects in relation to the device's housing, LCD, keyboard, and sliding mechanism. See ZDNET.com and conduct a search with this in mind.) Assuming those alleged issues are either non-issues or have been resolved, the Pre seems to be ideal for the non-power user. Beware however, I understand the Pre does NOT have Bluetooth capacity. This, it seems to me, could pose to be a deal-breaker for a number of users who rely heavily on Bluetooth headsets, REDFLY Mobile Companions, remote contact synchronization, and add-on QWERTY/Mice solutions.
As to the Htc Touch Pro line of devices and their varied analogs: There has been some allegations of slow performance notwithstanding the processor installed therein. In fact, I've tested the Diamond (I) and Pro(I) extensively and found the Pro(I) to be significantly zippier than the Diamond (I). But if you consider the impending release of devices such as the Toshiba TG01 and HTC THOTH (fouth in the Advantage line of devices) both of which are slated to sport 1GHz processors and greater than 4" displays. This is quite compelling when you consider the existing specs of the Pro(I) and Pro(II). Conversely, the Palm PRE is a tiny little package for what you get and all that it does to simplify how users interface with the phone. Toward that end, I recommend comparing the Palm Pre with the SAMSUNG S30. Also use caution when signing two-year agreements that fundamentaly change your rates, data access terms, and do so as a REQUIREMENT to getting the phone AT ALL within your upgrade eligibility.
SOLUTION: I recommend getting either a Toshiba TG01 or HTC THOTH if you are a "super-duper" power user. If you are a regular power user, get the HTC Touch PRO (II), (I), or something in the Diamond line of devices (in that order). THEN, go to palm's open source website, and download the background picture of the "Today Screen" for the Palm Pre. Open the cab file in the Pro's Picture/Video application. From the right menu option, choose the option to set that picture as your today screen, reducing the brightness according to taste. Then, go to your TouchFLO 3D settings and do the same. Presto! You have an HTC TOUCH PRO series device and all the beauty that can be found in any of the ROMs herein at your disposal. Be sure to donate accordingly. Plus you have it with the Pre "look and feel". Alternatively, you could (if relatively industrious) snag a copy of TealPoint's TealOS, and try running it's trial version on an old compatible Palm device if you have one collecting dust, just to see if you would indeed enjoy the interface, or get tired of it after a while. I do both of these options in re my Touch Pro (I) and Palm LifeDrive. My LifeDrive is the largest Palm Pre human-kind will never know. It's actually quite novel. I think of it as my "Jump-Drive-With-A-Touchscreen", As I also run ANDROID on both devices, I have a "dual-OS" for each--providing a measure of continuity between the two. Again, it's not overkill, because to me, the LD is just the mother of all jump-drives--nothing more.
Hope this discussion helped and these examples provide you with useful ideas. Keep in mind, above all, give some real thought and reflection to exactly what kind of "user" you actually are, not what you want to be or would like to think of yourself as being. If the most you do on a daily basis is make calls and surf the net . . . I'd be dubious of making a substantial investment into ANY phone that provides "everything & the kitchen sink". Do not for that matter, be overly swayed by hardware-based QWERTY keyboards included thereon. Virtual keyboards are getting better and better these days--and if the keyboard is there, eating up some memory anyway, us might as well use it. I think you'll be surprised even with a hardware QWERTY, how much LESS you end up using it than anticipated.
Good luck to you,
LWBIIPLLC
LWBIIPLLC said:
Virtual keyboards are getting better and better these days--and if the keyboard is there, eating up some memory anyway, us might as well use it. I think you'll be surprised even with a hardware QWERTY, how much LESS you end up using it than anticipated.
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I must disagree with that statement
I have used/tested a lot of non hardware keyboard devices and to this date there is no better way to type on a device than with a hardware keyboard.
As stated above, all will depend on the use you´ll give to a device, but believe me, if you are thinking on typing a lot (SMS, email) I recommend you a hardware keyboard device.
Just my opinion based on my experience...
"Hard" vrs. "Soft" Keyboards & Choice of Device
I DON'T disagree with Orb in contending hard keyboards are "preferred" to soft keyboards in so far as this agrees with the USER'S customary use. I simply stated that hard keyboards are not the be-all-end-all and should not be the SOLE and DETERMINING factor when one chooses his or her device.
Clearly each pose difficulties. This is why we see so many of us installing a number of keyboard software applications on our devices. As within even the micro-analysis of software, we often find one modality to work better given the pressures of the task at hand. (eg. while the Touch Full Keyboard is outstanding in its large virtual keys, and so too are others such as TouchPal, Spb's Keyboard, etc. these don't allow for easy cut and past and copying; much less selective highlighting using the Ctrl key). Hence, as I do this kind of task a lot in my line of work, I end up using what I originally thought was THE most useless keyboard on my Touch Pro. Similarly, if you are a person who enters numbers quite a bit, I doubt you want to constantly want to select a specific number pad that then disappears upon entry of each number. Additionally, the applications you use are a large factor that effect how you enter information on your device. How many of us with full hard QWERTY keyboards choose to slide rather than to hit our front panel and dial by screen when dialing a number not in our contacts? But Orb is right . . . when texting and writing anything of any substance, you will quickly get frustrated with a software based keyboard. But expanding on Orb's astute observations, if it is indeed the case that you must frequently do a lot of data entry or pros writing, and you've assessed your "usage trends" accurately, then I agree and FURTHER recommend an extended keyboard via bluetooth, such as a Stowaway BT keyboarde or iTech Laser VKB/Celluon CL850 VKB, or a REDFLY Mobile Companion terminal. That said, none of this discussion even tinkers with the notion of use of a "transcriber" for handwritten text entry. Finally, one has to consider frankly, in the event such text entry is such a predominant task, whether one should be performing a task of that kind on a "phone" versus a more text-friendly device. Remember when we all got excited when it was alleged that we can work up PowerPoint presentations and Excel spreadsheets on our phones? And then they gave us a tiny virtual keyboard to do it. Did the prospect of performing such tasks get substancially more attractive WITH a hardware keyboard? Admitedly . . . yes. But did we have a measure of "let-down" when the task did not prove effortless even with the hardware QWERTY? I still contend I and others did get let down a bit. So now, the name of the game is: Adaptation.
In the world of technology, I contend Darwinianism does not apply. It is not a question of survival of the fittest. It is a quesiton of who and what devices can "adapt" to the changing needs of the consumer; indeed the specific needs of a specific user as a specific situation may so require. Or are there still those who would contend otherwise: that it is nevertheless feasible to bring an Elephant Gun to an Easter Egg Hunt? Unless the eggs are Dinosaur eggs. ; ) LWBIIPLLC
orb3000 said:
I must disagree with that statement
I have used/tested a lot of non hardware keyboard devices and to this date there is no better way to type on a device than with a hardware keyboard.
As stated above, all will depend on the use you´ll give to a device, but believe me, if you are thinking on typing a lot (SMS, email) I recommend you a hardware keyboard device.
Just my opinion based on my experience...
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Click to collapse
Very true
take a close look at pre keys. they are crap. as bad as the blackberrys.
forget both and go with tp2
it has the best keyboard ever
in us you can pick up now at tmobile if you dont mind the ****ty service.
i am waiting for verizon, but both sprint and Verizon will have it soon
cyberhern said:
Very true
take a close look at pre keys. they are crap. as bad as the blackberrys.
forget both and go with tp2
it has the best keyboard ever
in us you can pick up now at tmobile if you dont mind the ****ty service.
i am waiting for verizon, but both sprint and Verizon will have it soon
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Click to collapse
Correction: The best keyboard ever is the one from Universal!!
orb3000 said:
Correction: The best keyboard ever is the one from Universal!!
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Click to collapse
Then you should try the keyboard for the unlocked TP2.
Just registered here and was looking for a discussion similar to this. I am going to try to talk T-Mo USA into letting me upgrade next month as I just went through 2 BlackBerry 8120s in 14 months. I am liking the TP2 but they also have the Dash 3G.
A few questions:
1. What is the keyboard like? T-Mo doesn't have any dummy phones in stock so I can't try it out. I text/IM/email/social network all the time.
2. What Twitter and MySpace apps do you all recommend? I have already picked out what I want to use for IM (BeeJive for WM). I am also going to get the FaceBook WM app.
3. Any other things I need to be aware of before getting either one? Upgrade capability to WM 7?
4. Which device would actually fit my needs better due to the questions above?
EricaJ1073 said:
Just registered here and was looking for a discussion similar to this. I am going to try to talk T-Mo USA into letting me upgrade next month as I just went through 2 BlackBerry 8120s in 14 months. I am liking the TP2 but they also have the Dash 3G.
A few questions:
1. What is the keyboard like? T-Mo doesn't have any dummy phones in stock so I can't try it out. I text/IM/email/social network all the time.
2. What Twitter and MySpace apps do you all recommend? I have already picked out what I want to use for IM (BeeJive for WM). I am also going to get the FaceBook WM app.
3. Any other things I need to be aware of before getting either one? Upgrade capability to WM 7?
4. Which device would actually fit my needs better due to the questions above?
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Click to collapse
1. The keyboard is a very responsive and well spaced keys compared with the Touch Pro keyboard, with the freature of the tilting screen like the Kaiser. With the retro light became a very good keyboard to use everytime and every day.
2. Facebook App you already have it with the HTC equipment. It's preinstaled. If yoo have the Messenger, IM already also in the phone software.
3. WM7 will be for sure compatible, but not in official rom (with the Touch Pro2 and Diamond 2 you get the free update for the 6.5 in end september/october. WM7 problably only with cooked roms.
4. HTC Touch Pro2 for sure.
Related
I been using the iphone today.....what a smooth operator...everything just flows...the page animations the opening of applications...the look and feel, the way touch works. The typing (mind you Cooteks Touch and icontact is on par with it )very impressive...it even takes batter pictures than the cruise and its only got a 2meg camera...using my cruise everything is laggy....I cant wait for the drivers or update. If people like larna and others can do wonders to the speed of applications then what the hell are original developers and manufacturers doing. I say thank you for this forum...If HTC/Microsoft had been thorough as Apple was with the iphone the cruise/WM would be a different beast altogether.
I think Microsoft must be going through what Mercedes and BMW went through when the first Lexus model came out and caught them sleeping.
Nice phone the iphone but very limited when compared to ours....but things could change.
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
I think a capacitive Display would help much. I'm often not sure if pressing a soft button worked. That makes working on it feeling laggy (beside slow program starts).
The WM developers have ignored any work on the UI for years. Now they got payback, the WM UI looks like an ugly Windows 95 UI and is totally outdated.
You can see that a smooth UI is possible by looking at pointui.
But do not forget the WM advantages.
All the availabe software, for example WMwifirouter.
That on iphone? I think it will never be...
Agreed....I can only fault Microsoft in Slow Deveopement....whereas the Manufacturers trying to make everyhing generic compatible instead of optimizing....now if they even aimed for the latter, no only would our devices be useably versatile, they would be decently fast and efficient.
We can only hope that WM7 will better developed for touch and hopefully not a memory hogger ...aka Vista.
On June 2008 the rumor say we will have a 3G Iphone + integrated GPS + open SDK. All for not more than $500 USD.
Nobody will touch the touch cruise with a stick at that point (unless the price will be reduced to $250, or something close). So I believe we're going to see new phones from HTC pretty soon.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
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With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
Noam23 said:
With the SDK, the iPhone could potentially have all the important software of the WM. What company wouldn't want to make their mobile software compatible with the iPhone (with millions of users worldwide).
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I hate to say it but I think he's right.
I can and only will speak for myself, even though that may be the case for everyone else as well; but I use a WM based device because of the software. While the iPhone is faster, better looking, smoother flowing...as of right now it is locked down and requires hacks just to browse the file system!!
TheOnly1 said:
This is s stupid discussion really The iPhone is a completely different concept than Win Mobile. The real question is: Why do you use Win Mobile? If it's for the coolness factor than iPhone is the much better alternative. If you want productivity than forget the iPhone It's that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are reffering to the current iPhone, i would have to say you are DEAD on. However, if the new one lives up to what people are saying about it (an SDK, gps, 3g),
Then apple would have successfully created something that achieves both outcomes: A cool device with a fast, smooth flowing UI WITH functionality and productivity.
remoh said:
I think much is about WM. And dont forget, Apple spend all their ressources to get their OS running on one Hardware. WM runs on hundreds of different Hardware.
Be sure, if the people at MS would optimze WM only for the Touch Cruise it would run much smoother.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it is up to the OEMs, not microsoft, to optimize windows mobile for each of their devices. This is where HTC fails time after time in my mind.
Microsoft gives them every opportunity to implement things accelerated graphics, among other things. HTC does not do it!!
And then has the audacity to blame the customers for buying devices based on their chipsets instead of what is actually implemented (or NOT implemented -- LOL).
Since my last HTC purchase of the Touch Cruise, which cost me almost $900 I am extremely upset and dissapointed, not to mention disillusioned. The kaiser and the TC could have been great, but HTC did not want them to be -- they are slow, clunky, unresponsive at times, and i don't see why HTC even put a camera on them 'cause the pictures and video are better left not being captured at all.
If the new iphone lives up to it's promises, i see no reason to ever purchase, nor use another htc product ever again. That is the thing though...Apple is one of those companies I just do not trust and/or like....but just having the possibility of a device like the new iphone will keep my interest peaked!
If everything goes as planned, I believe that mobile developers will definately take advantage of the SDK.
While it will take many months for all the developers out there to create good applications, it will happen.
I'll actually go as far as saying that iPhone software will in fact exceed that of WM software in the future -- Provided that apple releases a decent sdk and does not place absurd restrictions on developers.
Think about it...how long have WM devices been out for...and what is their popularity?
Compare that to how long the iPhone has been out for, and it's popularity...
While currently they are for two completely different concepts;
one for user friendly every day usage, and one a "business" device...
apple seems to be combining both concepts into something that I would consider a "dream" device that I have been waiting for from HTC to put out for years now.
I thought that the TC would in fact be something closely resembling my "dream" device -- And after I actually used it and saw all of the problems with it first hand, I quickly recognized I was completly wrong.
Let's see if Apple can successfully accomplish what HTC has consistently set out to -- and subsequently failed to do so many times.
If they can pull this off, I will definately consider myself a proud iphone owner / user.
i have to admit the only reason i did not buy an iphone its because i did not want to switch to at&t and evryone where i work has one. i just wanted something different so i bought the touch cruise. i am regreting it even as i type. 700plus usd down the drain. when the new iphone is out this summer i am definitely getting one and switching to at&t
i wish i could get my hands on one of the htc developers. i would beat the life out of him. for real. i am mad and pissed. even the clone iphone, the hiphone which i saw with my own two eyes and held in my hands is better than touch cruise. its only 200usd
There are a lot of Touch user using WM device not having too many complaint. I like UI and build of iPhone, but I never forget the experience what smart phone of Nokia and Sony Ericsson running in Symbian. People will just imagine what Apple will enhance the iPhone and offer what we have used in WM device. Just like people asking why manufacturer not offering VGA device. Why don't have a look of the delay of Sony Ericsson X1? Keep an eye on what Apple implement the SDK into their iPhone and software developer introduce program, and to compare what we have with WM device. Looking forward to have a device running in X OS with VGA display with weeks of power with plenty choice of softwares .... and lastly without lag. Just like years ago we are looking for a VGA WM device. Manufacturer like HTC will make such device if it can.
Are you guys serious about the Touch Cruise camera being poor? It has one of the best cameras I've ever seen on a mobile, save for the lack of flash.
-3 Megapixels
-Autofocus
-Excellent macro mode (try taking a picture of anything close up (~3inches) with this vs. a normal camera under normal lighting...TC holds its own, or better yet take a picture of something close up and compare those results to those of an IPhone)
-Auto switch to night mode in poor lighting (remember camcorders with night mode also exhibit lag in night mode, but normal cameras don't lag as they don't use a night mode since they have a flash!)
I must agree with Sonus on the camera. I actually printed out some pictures I took with my TC and they were pretty much OK on paper.
i do believe the tc is a very good device with advantages and disadvantages same as the iphone.
the thing that annoys me most (also while writing this text) the input lags in the touch keyboard or other apps, e.g. switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.
the good things are:
100% customization
tons of apps - navigation, wlm etc
lastly, i have see the iphone hanging - it could not connect immediately to wifi
I'm positive Apple is not going to put HTC out of business on June 2008, when the 3G iphone is supposedly coming out.
HTC will definitely release formidable competition on fall 2008, probably the dream machines we always wanted to have. My only complaint is that the Touch Cruise / Kaiser have the hardware to be much of that "dream machine", but aren't so because HTC doesn't think it is necessary since these products are competitive enough as it is, in today's market.
I agree with the only1.
Just think of it in business terms, the iphone and touch cruise are aimed at different markets. HTC could probably produce a iphone type device but why should it. HTC devices are more business orientated and sold as such, they are not (imho) trying to compete with consumer based ideas and what looks sexy when playing music or videos. They are aimed at different markets.
If people want a device to look good show off pictures and videos and play music they buy a iphone, for gods sake its a ipod touch that makes calls, so no comparison.
If people want to do all of the above and have a device that can be used as a great business tool buy a touch cruise.
Okay there are some faults but they will probably be fixed on the next device but that too will have its shortcomings and we will give out **** about it and compare it to the newest goddam wonderful iphone, jphone, kphone or whatever with hdtv or can make coffee but thats life. I know we paid big money for what we have but for jaysus sake its "not ****en dark". i.e. you could see what your were buying.
Just my opinion.
A bit strong maybe but thats life.
I dont know what you guys have done to your devices to make the camera so good, but unless i am taking pictures outside when it is sunny out, it will NOT come out clearly at all -- it is very distorted and grainy, not to mention it slows down to a crawl! I have a sony cybershot 2.1 MP camera from 2002 that takes better pictures than a TC cam -- and it cost about 150$ 6 years ago. When its dark or indoors, the LCD on the cybershot doesn't slow down to 1-5 FPS.
Now people say that the TC is a business device and that's true.
But, I for one am sick of trading off functionality for performance on the business devices produced from HTC.
Why can't it be both at the same time?
Unfortuneately, I did go in the dark on this one. Before I bought the TC I didn't research the video driver problems.
I only looked at the specs, researched the chipset and thought I was getting something that would (at least) out perform my PPC-6700 that I purchased over 3 years ago. I was wrong. I don't think HTC will go out of business...not at all, but i DO think that alot of people are in a similar boat that I am in...betrayed by HTC and will continue to hold a grudge against them, and subsequently switch to someone who can provide something better in the future...hopefully, that can be Apple...but I definately have some doubts to say the least, considering what the current iPhone came out as -- a Media player with a phone on it.
PseudoReal said:
switching the t9 language is so crappy - once i click the triangle next to "20", it takes to 5 seconds open the dialogue it similar with other apps.i
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OMG, i have the SAME problem...it is the WORST!!
you have to tap the stupid triangle like 50 times just to get it to switch.
It's an atrocity. Devices from 3 years ago do not even have this problem.
Business device or not, this is just plain unacceptable.
Unless there is a fix for this problem, or I am doing something wrong and do not know about it?
How many ppl have similar experience?
I have that same problem. Takes multiple clicks and major lag to get the input keyboard to show up. The reason I have to chance keyboards is I often use Opera 9.5 and for some reason none of the Touch keypads work with it, so I have to switch them (I think that's another problem could be related to Opera still being beta). Also every once in awhile I can't get to the PocketCM keyboard and instead get the lame Windows default one. But that also is another problem.
Back to the lag, every once in awhile I will get lag here or there, e.g. will click on the task manager on the top right and not get anything, keep clicking around with no response. Then all of a sudden all the clicks take effect and I will see the task manager menu open and close in succession real quick.
All in all it's a good device, great functionality, just a few quirks here or there. Maybe it's time to hard-reset or flash a new ROM that might solve some of these things, who knows.
Oh forgot, as for the camera lag with the low FPS in low light conditions, check out this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=365345
HTH
thanks for that... the "trick" described in the first post does increase the response by 10 fps or so, but the thing is, the picture quality also goes down...its a lose/lose situation i guess lol...I also noticed that there is a new .dll fix on the HTC E-club, but only for the kaiser. I tried to login but it says theyre doing maintainance right now, so I can't check if there's anything released for the TC...even so I doubt there is
but my issue is, and always has been..why should i need to do all of these tricks and patches for a device that costs as much as the TC does? I shouldn't. No one should.
also another thing that came to my mind...people and HTC say this is a "business device"...so i was thinking, wouldn't business users want their devices to be MORE responsive than a media player / cool trendy "sexy" device?
I mean when you need to wait 5 seconds and tap the screen multiple times to play a music file, it's not really that big of a deal...it's an annoyance yes but it doesn't result in you losing work time..or a loss of productivity
but when you need to tap the X button 5 times to close out of a document and switch to your email...or taking notes and browsing web pages for work related stuff...or trying to switch between SIP's...and having to wait because the device lags worse than windows 95...it becomes a loss of productivity...
even if it's only seconds, those seconds add up, and the annoyances stock pile into one big ball of rage for me at least, heh.
I do admit that my own foolishness and quickness to buy a new device is partly to blame here. I should have looked into it more. But I also think that HTC holds a good part of the blame as well.
hopefully the geniuses here can come up with some good fast custom roms that will deal with these issues...i won't hold my breath waiting for this patch to come out from HTC at the end of the month. I'm doubtful that it will do anything at all.
Hey there guys,
New to this great Comunity, still new to Windows Mobile.
I'm a tech geek alright, and I love having all the newest tech gadgets around. I've wanted to get a WM phone so many times throughout the last few years but they were always behind in lots of aspects compared to the Symbian ones. Then HTC released its TyTNII with its holy specs, great design and somewhat compact size. This was my phone! Yeah, right! Then I found out about this huge issue with the video performance and followed it for about three monts waiting for a solution either from HTC or XDA. And OK - HTC had some problems with Qualcomm support for its stolen from Broadcomm chipsets whatever. So they released Diamond (and announced Raphael) with a new chipset and "3D GPU" which "processor enhances the user interface". And then again it needs tweaks to make it - not better, but just usable. Then all the other bugs and flaws users say about in this forum.
Can't HTC build a quality device that just works out of the box?! Then leave it to us mostly to customize it and somehow improve its usability!? Man, everyday I read about newer and bigger bugs and flaws. May be most of them will be overcomed thanks to this comunity, but were is HTC with its support for its high-priced devices!?
And again I'm about to leave the idea of having WM phone.
I've looked around for any other brands and models but found none more appealing. What do you think? What's the best WM device I can get in the next few months?
Any opinions are much appreciated.
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
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Give blackberry a chance They've never failed me. Infact, I had my HTC Touch Dual for about a month before switching back. lol.
calling someone is too complicated?
1.) hit the green button
2.) start tapping away or choose speed dial
3.) hit the green button
its similar to what other phones want from you in order to know who you want to call. If thats too complicated, you may also try voice commander?
that beeing said, I am very happy with my new i-mate 9502, but I also considered the samsung i780 and it looks like people who bought it are very happy with it, especially with the form factor and performance.
edit: key for me with winMo devices are things like hardware keys, to reach functions quickly, using a good launcher/today setup like pocketplus +
phoneweaver + todayagenda, etc. and a nice hardware keyboard.
partyhardy said:
simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
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Click to collapse
Calling is simple, one button... de ding "call simon mobile" etc.
The no error message and not getting calls though is an issue i dislike.
I want a "nippy" device we need better hardware to run the software and better software optimisation for the hardware.
i just bought htc touch enhanced couple of days ago, and for the price it's great. Now with the Diamond coming out, htc touch is getting cheaper, but it's great to use nontheless.
Installed some stuff on it, not enough to make it sluggish but enough to make it a pure pleasure to use and i would definitely recommend it.
Prekrasen telefon za tzenata si.
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
demonizator said:
But why cusomizabilty has to be at the expense of stability? Is it imposible to have a device that is performing great out of the box and has the potential to get improved usability by applications and custom tweaks? That would be the device for me. Don't get me wrong. I'm no mass user, I would consider myself as a techie business user and as such I need a device that I can rely on from the moment I buy it. I don't have the comfort to spend a small fortune and experiment weeks, even months with tweaking it just to make it work properly. I've always thought of WM as of business devices but I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that the people that use this site are not those that are going to say "my device is great" and then go away... The kind of people here are either those not satisfied, or those that want a little bit more from the hard ware and are not representative of all the device users.
The Diamond is an immensely powerfully device, and even with the UI stacked on top, it ticks away far more reliably than the iPhone (which for me just locked up a lot). If you don't like the UI, disable it and you'll have one of the most powerful WM devices there is...
WM devices don't need tweaking, but this site is devoted to tweaking them. I ran my Prophet perfectly happily on the stock WM5 ROM for over a year, before discovering this site to get it unlocked when the contract ended. I didn't need to tweak it or flash countless ROMs, but I wanted to...
I really hope you're right. I'm gonna wait a little bit more and get the Touch Pro version. It's just all these flaws I read about that stopped me from buying WM the past few years. But I guess I have to give up something to gain something more.
Maybe you want to take a look to the new Samsung. It seems as it's going to be a good device.
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1039
WM6 for the money?
I bought a Dash on ebay and upgraded it to WM6 for $150.00.
I have a Mogul now, but the Dash was way easier to use.
In terms of bang-for-the-buck I think the Samsung i780 takes the cake. It is the most specced out phone in that price category. And if you buy one today it will have the newer firmware so it shouldn't have any real issues.
Oh and calling people on a WiMo phone is far easier than any other phone. Voice Command baby. It's the reason I can't leave the WiMo platform even if there are other great choices like the iPhone, Blackberry or even the all-but-dead Palm Treos. And if you DON'T like using Voice Command come on it's very easy to call someone as mentioned. In fact, back when Nokia had crap for menus and directional pads to get to your contacts WiMo phones had touchscreens that made it really easy in comparison. Today the touchscreen is still easier to use than the various jog dials, joysticks or what not that conventional phones have.
+1 for the i780. It is by far the quickest and most responsive PPC I have ever used, and the form factor is perfect. No rotating screens to wait for, all the keyboard shortcuts you could want, terrific build quality, good battery life, bargain price, and none of the HTC Flo-bloat that turns their machines from reasonable PPCs into lagging, crash-happy iPhone wannabes.
I gotta add a +2 for the I780 as well.
I was holding out for a touch pro myself, in fact i cut out a picture of it and put it on my wall at the office. Iv'e owned quite a few HTC models over the last while as well as a I600, and i gotta say the I600 altho it had less functionality far outshined all but my tytn 2, altho the tytn 2 could not match the I600 im picture quality with the camera.
Last week i was in vodacom shop and saw the I780 demo model, picked it up and played with it for a while and i must say it has been a long time since a phone made me go "wow" , i was totaly amazed at the speed of the thing, the look and feel of it is great, samsung put alot of work into making the menu's just right for any user from beginner to power user. I made up my mind right there and then and bought one on my credit card, that was 7 days ago.
my experience so far :
Proprioty connector sux since i have a bunch of standard usb cables lying around, but still its not a train smash since you get usb cable, car charger, spare battery as well as a seperate portable battery charger as well with the phone.
Speed is AWSOME, 624mhz of power you will definitely notice, i have not found a single movie clip that has once lagged or was out of sinc with video/audio. this phone is really FAST, even when multi tasking it doesnt slow down. i have 2 friends who own tytn 2 and both commented on the speed, they both think i tweaked it to make it faster, they refuse to believe its the stock speed. ofcourse i did not tweak it.
Plenty of memory, i have 152mb free memory space on the phone and i have around 20 apps installed. the phone can also technicaly take up to 32gb cards i have read, altho most users use 1gb-8gb.
GPS is great, i had a bit of problem setting it up as i didnt bother reading the manual etc, but once i figured it out it worked like a charm, it pin pointed me in seconds. google maps work great as well. Garmin XT which comes with the phone is in my opinion far better than tomtom could ever be so i am very happy with samsung's choice of gps software.
Touch pad mouse was what put me off buying the phone in the first place, but after 6 days i find myself using it more than anything else, it was weird to use the first few days but it is second nature now and the phone just wouldnt be the same without it.
the keypad looks really tiny and i have biggish fingers. I dont know why, maybe its because they are beveled quite a bit or something, but i find it very easy and comfortable to use, do yourself a favour and try it on a demo model, you will see what i mean. the phone has a bunch of shortcut keys that sit in all the right spots, thumbs up to samsung for doing a good job there. one thing i would have liked was a jog dial for easy up and down scrolling in opera, I downloaded a app that changes volume up/down to scroll up/down and my problem was solved.
Screen is nice and bright, even in sunlight i dont have a problem. 320x320 at 128dpi is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. 95% of software out there works flawless at this resolution, since the release of the phone software developers have all been upgrading to support it. its mainly only HTC home that is a problem, but spb mobile which has more funtions works perfect so i am not bothered. I have installed all 20 of my favorite apps and all work nicely so im happy. there are some games that might be an issue tho, but its mostly old titles, every new game being released supports this resolution.
3G. Wireless, HSDPA etc : with my tytn 2 i had 1 bar to my router from the living room, with this phone i have almost full signal, i was really surprised with that. in the bathroom i used to get gprs only with the tytn 2, with this phone i get 3G+. anyway, that is how i have compared it to my old phone and found this one to have far better signal quality.
overall i love the phone, i am convinced i made the right choice. i would have loved a flash to be included with the phone, but other than that i just cant find any flaws.
I cant really comment on battery life as i am still playing with everything alot and using more battery life than i would on avarage, but currently battery lasts me almost 2 full days and trust me, i put it under alot of stress plus you get a second battery with the phone for free. but i estimate 3 to 4 days if you dont put to much strain on it.
O also forgot to mention, video calling worked out of the box much to my surprise. phone came with the E1 rom installed.
Software currently on phone and working perfectly :
Skype
SmS Chat ( threaded sms app )
google maps
Opera
core player
real player
Esmertec Jbed
Advabced config Tools
Adobe reader
Fun contact
Keyswop
Pocket IRC
Pocket Rar
PqzII
Safemode 2
Garmin XT
SPB Mobile shell
WKTaskL
Samsung today plugin
Astraware Casino
Tetris
Machines of war
Flash player
Total commander
Call firewall.
And no i did not install realvga, i am using the default 128dpi resolution i got the phone with.
Anyway, hope this helps with your descision. what you really need to do it test the phone yourself, i warn you tho, once you pick it up you wont want to put it down
In my country the HTC Tytn 2 is selling for R8900, and its already an dated model.
the I780 is selling for R5200 which is ALOT cheaper and this phone blows smoke in the tytn 2's face. so in my opinion this is by far the best bang for buck out there.
Its kinda like buying a 9600gt when everyone else is buying the 8600gts .... just love seeying their faces when they realise they just pissed away a chunk of cash on the wrong thing
If all else fails read this : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=411053
The best windows mobile device for it's money is undoubtely the HTC Shift, for a mere 1000 dollars you'll get a run-down WindowsMobile OS, but also Vista. So you'll have a hybrid for the price of just a good laptop.
Isn't is great ?
I think the HTC Touch PRO will blow the competition away, seriously!!!
I was a symbian freak for years untill I bought my current device, the HTC S710 "Vox". Before the Vox I went trough several Symbian S60 devices including Nokia 7610, 6630, N70 & N73.
At first I thougt wm was a complete mess... and the UI looked terrible imo... I was also a bit shocked that there was no copy/paste (at least in wm6 standard). In S60 there was a dedicated pencil key used for just copy/paste actions + other stuff..
Things have changed...
Now after using my Vox fox exactly one year there's no way I'd go back to only using symbian S60 again.
Even though I'm only using the non-touch version of wm I've noticed all the advantages of wm compared with symbian S60.
Let me list a few of them:
1. Messaging: Sending SMS & MMS with a S60 device is OK but nothing more, the whole messaging interface in a S60 3d edition device is inferior. It's hard to explain but it's just doesn't compare to what it feels like on a wm device. It's like using a 3310 with a color screen if you know what I mean. Oooold T9 (forget about xt9 with word prediction & etc), the whole interface looks like a joke, and the S60 MMS editor doesn't even have a 3'rd of every options you can find in a standard WM device these days.
2. Email: OMG, If you wanna check your mail on a S60 device you'll be seriously depressed. Reading emails on a S60 device is like reading a standard SMS. You can forget all about HTML email and everything looks incredibly boring. Yes there are some really good 3rd party apps like profimail but still they're no match for the built-in mobile outlook when it comes to displaying your emails.
3. Calendar: There's no comparision here, WM6 calendar thrumps the S60 one, nothing more to say!
4. Contacts: S60 is far far behind, there's so much easier and faster finding a contact in WM6, especially when you can search contacts quickly just by typing there first letters using xt9... And with Live messenger integrated (love it or hate it) with contacts it's a nice addition imo.
5. Office applications: OMG... This is overkill for S60!!! Even WM6 standard edition nowadays includes Office mobile which beatifully renders word, excell & powerpoint files. It's a shame it doesn't allow you to create new documents (on WM6 standard) but that can easily be fixed with a simple patch from modaco forums... S60 includes quickoffice, it's not a bad application at all but documents rendered in quickoffice doesn't even look nearly as good as they do in office mobile.
6. WIFI: No competition here at all... WM is superior in remembering hotspots and connectivity.
7. ActiveSync: Says it all doesn't it??? Nokia have PC Suite, it's a great app but it's no match if you're using outlook... It works ok but doesn't sync everything like activesync does so wm is the winner here as well....
8. Live Messenger: Probably not very important to a lot of people but for me it's very important. With WM6 I can use the native WM Live messenger client completely for free. There's no way to do that on Symbian because MS is charging for using it on other platforms
There's probably more I could add to the list but I must mention all my troubles with wm in the beginning have been solved, I'm using Vito Copy/Paste for the copy & paste issue & I've also added celetask to a hardware key so my phone actually works better in this apartment than I could ever wish four... Of course Symbian S60 also have advantages, like better cameras & video recording, more display colors & better gaming with the new N-gage platform etc... but in the end I think WM is a more advanced & better platform. I think WM is more appealing for geeks & techheads because you can tweak your device to infinity. And I'm still only talking about WM Standard, WM6 PRO is even more versatile.
S60 is fun for a while but in the end it gets boring as hell...
partyhardy said:
To be honest, I've grown quite tired of Windows Mobile. I used to like it more, but it seems like I spent way too much time getting things to work. Also, the interface is very user UN-friendly, which makes doing simple tasks like calling someone too time consuming. Then there is the random freeze ups like the one I had today, which caused me to miss 5 calls and no warning lights or anything.
I like the cusomizabilty, but sometimes, I just want something that works right out of the box. Also, performance wise, all of the HTC/WM phones I've used are sluggish. (My mogul, friend's 6700, another friend's Kaiser/TyTnII). The redraw time when you flip out the keyboard is rediculous, specially if you have a few plugins.
Overall, I may give one more WM phone a try, if I am impressed by it at the store. But I doubt it. I just don't see Microsoft doing any innovations since they hold the crown as far as market share goes in the U.S. Maybe when an Android phones comes out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Performance issue of WM are device specific. After being a HTC hardcore for many years, and after quite a number of frustating moments I decided to switch.....almost bought myself the new Nokia E71 and abandon WM altotgether BUT - I decided to give it one more try with WM and now it's with a Samsung. And that's how I ended with the i780.
With the i780 (DXHE1 Rom), it's like a rediscovery for me. After getting used to HTC sluggishness and sporadic freeze-ups, I was genuinely astounded by how nimble and steadfast this i780 is. I can recall until now I have not encountered any freeze-ups no matter how I abuse the programs running back to back. Yes some buggy program may screw up but the nice thing is it won't freeze the whole phone unlike HTC devices where a single program fails it will bring down the whole phone.
And for the price, the i780 is a steal. It has all the arsenal one could expect from HTC flagship models yet it cost way cheaper - that is a real deal to me.
If you are done with HTC, don't blame it on WM. Try different make, like i-Mate Arima build or Samsung or even Asus.
I'm shopping for my next cell phone and after looking over the selection on letstalk.com I decided on the Fuze. Initially my only hard requirement was a real slider style QWERTY keyboard, not those sorta-qwertys that the blackberries have and not the fully exposed ones that don't tuck away. I want something I can text comfortably on and not be pecking around in menus trying to find special characters. I was very impressed by both the robust keyboard and the PC-like features of the Fuze, particularly the high-res screen, wifi, and its ability to do remote desktop (awesome for someone like me who uses RDP constantly.)
So the Fuze was starting to sound like slam-dunk until I decided to research it further here and found the cpu/driver/qualcomm thread, battery life and other assorted complaints about this phone. They're certainly not deal-breakers given all the good things about the phone, but before I buy it anyway I wanted to ask for suggestions for an alternative. What would you get if you wanted a great slider qwerty and remote desktop, but didn't want to settle for the Fuze?
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
nodnod...
That was pretty much exactly what I expected to hear. At least now I can buy this awful piece of junk guilt-free.
Update
Have had my Fuze for about a week now, so far not all that impressed. I already need to return it because the lcd has screen color problems (color ghosting, intermittent monochrome r/g/b) so I haven't tried flashing any roms or radios, tho I have gone thru the basic stock-rom, no-bloat noob setup a few times and tried out just about every interesting freeware app i could find.
I asked a friend to try out the browser on his iPhone. It started so fast, and browsed so smoothly. Mine lags at every single little action - scrolling the screen, zooming, clicking a link... painfully slow. However I found that entering text on his iphone was even more painful.
The main feature I liked from the start about the TP is the ability to do real remote desktop - a lifesaver for someone who's got remote servers to manage, AND a life outside of work. I haven't done anything too complicated thru RDP yet, just kinda played with the start menu - which I noticed has weird text issues at this resolution. However I was still very impressed by this functionality and this is where the vga resolution of this phone really shines.
I've been thinking about asking for a different handset when I send this one back, but still not found one that meets my needs and has a hardware keyboard. Seems like we are still a few iterations away from having a truly well-made, useful pocket pc phone so I may just get it replaced by the same model.
Other minor things I didn't like about it: Entire thing is extremely heavy and fragile, weird diamond-cut back causes certain spots to lose their paint immediately, battery life DOES suck despite what some say, phone back has to be removed to switch out microsd cards, no 1/8" audio out and you NEVER have that dongle adapter when you want it.
rcll said:
The Raphael(Fuze) is the best WinMo PPC hardware qwerty slider around. I still bought mine despite knowing the problems. It's possible that HTC/Qualcomm releases better drivers or an SDK in the future if we pester them enough, so there's even hope for future performance improvements. Plus the xda-dev community is very active with cooked ROMs, there at least 3 or 4 excellent ROMs you can choose from, and they are updated frequently.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
The only real next step up is the Xperia. However, the X1 has a lot of differences that would be a big turn off for me. X1 seems to be a much better build quality though.
Largest problems being WVGA (always a pain even with the WVGA <-> VGA work around) and the price.
behrouz said:
This does not sound like the HTC I know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, there are few companies that would be willing to deploy a major software update like this once the unit is already selling. The only hope for this model is if the proprietary driver code could be leaked from qualcomm and incorporated into a rom.
I called the LetsTalk.com customer service line and asked if they could cross-ship me a new fuze so I wouldn't be without a phone for several days. They said yes but for some reason the deposit amount is equal to the retail value of the fuze PLUS a bunch more money for reasons which I did not quite understand due to the phone rep's "dialect" of english. So I now have an $850 (!) hold on my credit card (which happens to be my personal checking account) until the phone swap is completed.
In the last days, I am thinking about the many features last devices have, and "poor" WM functions...
I had a Universal, then a Kaiser, and now a Raphael, and...I mean, big hardware development has been made, but, the SO is almost the same, and I do not think we are using the real potential of our devices, isn't it?!
I mean, we can read email, but what I would really want is to have ALL my emails with me in my PDA and in my Pc, to use more than one email account, but, the only way to have ALL our emails synced in our PDAs and PCs, is paying for an Exchange Server access, but, we can use only ONE Exchange server, so we have to switch to IMAP, but using IMAP means using third part software because the WM email client does not allow us to store sent email in the right IMAP server folder (which can change from server to server), and, if I use a third part software for email, I cannot use the latest HTC "people centric communication feature", I cannot use the latest TF3D2 mail page, etc...so have an advanced email system is not possible yet...correct me if I am wrong.
But I want go deeper. Most of the things we can do today with our devices (like surfing the net) it is almost not possible "on the go", it is very difficult reply an email while I am walking, or while I am driving, it is difficult read a post on this forum and replay here, it is difficult write a text message without using both hand for the stylus or with an hardware keyboard...I mean, doing things like these are easy if we are sitted down, with both hands free, and if I should be sitted down with both hands free, I also could use a laptop, or netbook, or something like that. MS has made Voice Command, but only in three languages....
What I am trying to say is that what we really need in our devices is a completely different approch, would be useful if I am in my car, I receive a text message or email, and my device can READ it for me , or if I have to write a text, I can dictate it to my device. I would like that my phone reads my RSS while I am driving, because it CPU can handle a job like this.
We have 500/600 Mhz CPU for doing what? Appreciate graphical game on TF3D2?! In the next month will be sold a new device with a 1Ghz CPU for doing what?! The same things we are doing today?!
And think about Android, a young operating system that is 2 years old that almost do the same things that our MS operating system does from 1999?! Why we are changing our devices? What has been offered to us to justify spending 500/600/700 USD or EUR for new devices?
What do you do with your phone? Send some email? trying to open 10 web pages per day? Manage a calendar? Use a navigation software? I almost could do the same things with a cheapear phone, I phone that I must not reset once a day!
Sorry for my post and for the bad English, but something is not very clear in my mind...Am I becoming crazy?!
My friend you are absolutelly right.
I have changed many phones and have used different operating systems and i can say that more or less they are all the same. So the phones are not so innovative as the hardware allows them to be. Maybe the programmers have something else in mind when they develop new user interfaces but that something is getting old... The most innovative thing i have seen in a handset is in one of nokia's "cheaper" phones the e-50 which can read your messages. It's small but it's something! plus you don't have to pay a month's sallary to get it right? I believe that the only reason for this stagnancy (i don't know if this is a word ) is that each company is hesitating to try something new just because people buy the devices as they are, which probably means they like them. So why change something???
I wish that people with ideas like yours were the ones making the OS. Things would be very different then.
I really liked your post it makes you wonder....
simply insane!!!
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Lack of comparative discussion
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Don't get me wrong, there's really no excuse for the limitations of MS's own mobile OS when interacting with MS's Exchange technology.
Some have tried to fake voice control, and there's even a couple of apps that have been around for several years that make some minor steps in the right direction, but none of them function well enough to be considered 90% functional (which would seem to be the general expectation for consumer targeted devices).
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
+ Que PPC said:
why are you make questions here like that?
well if you hate WM devices now... i can buy your Kaiser... sell it to me!
and buy an Iphone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simply because I would like to know what others users and developers think...I have to said to let our devices fly outside the window, or said something offensive...Our devices today are much more usefull than the stock version just because there is a community like this where people develop piece of software or port entire rom, and I very thank all of theme. Playing with our device is also a hobby, but i really believe that big companies like HTC and others, should do a better work on these devices for how much they cost. That's it.
speed_pour said:
What bothers me a little about the diatribe is that it doesn't account for the ways in which the OTHER mobile operating systems fall equally short. I don't believe that any other phone has shown itself to be measurably superior on any of the issues discussed. Don't peg it all on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right, I am not having other OS since 2004, I do not want to say the others are better, I say that if I pay my PDA 700 EUR against 350 for another phone that does "almost" the same things...I pay 700 EUR but I would like something more...stable, or more advanced.
speed_pour said:
The hardware improvements haven't gone completely to waste, depending on what you're using the phone for. Multimedia, Gaming, and even "Business Use" have gained from the improved hardware. New types of interaction are now possible thanks to g-sensors, lighting detection, better cameras, and proximity sensors. Sure, the full power of the hardware surely isn't realized yet (and considering how quickly the devices are replaced, I doubt it ever will be), but there's a lot happening and we're bound to see a lot more to come.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partially agree with you, just to report some example, I left my Kaiser for my Raphael, and my Raphael has g-sensor, it also had the old HCT Album 2.5 which rotated pictures using the g-sensor, and this was a must using the TV-OUT cable, but now, with HTC Album 3, the g-sensor rotate features is gone...so when you see picture on the TV using the TV-OUT cable, you cannot rotate photos any more..why?! Or what about the latest TF3D2 with its calendar tab?! Yes, it is cool, but it require 10 seconds to show all the appointments on each month...while the old calendar app is fast. What I mean is that I feel that they do not make a "perfect" phone while they could, because nobody will buy another phone after, I feel like they always miss something, or left something not working (like the GD driver on Kaiser) so that people continue spending money buying new devices.
speed_pour said:
Don't forget, WM7 is likely to ship with "Tell Me", which is supposedly a pretty powerful update to the MS Voice Command technology and capable of controlling most major phone-related functions. The iPhone will certainly be copying/stealing somebody's voice technology (if not buying up a company outright). Android already has Google working on extended voice features, which will almost certainly translate into what you're asking for. In fact, every complaint mentioned is something that virtually every OS is working on adding in some form or another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am anxious to see some "really" improvements on this side, but I also think that MS has waited to much for doing something...
speed_pour said:
In my opinion, it's the battery and power efficiency that we need to see dramatically improve. The largest limit our phones have, which is why many features have never even been given to these phones, is that certain things drain too much power (like voice processing). If battery life improves, count on seeing a lot of these other features appearing in short order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree with you
Just wondering why you chose Fuze/Touch-pro over Iphone.
For me 3 major reasons in order of importance:
Size: I just cannot accept the size of an Iphone. I believe in a small device with great capabilities that will nicely fit in my pocket.
Bluetooth Stereo: Bluetooth A2DP support was NOT native to Iphone at that time. Did not want to add and an UGLY connector to get bluetooth music streaming either
Not an Iphone fan boy: Never carried an Ipod nor had a Mac. Its too overrated and is more of a fashion statement. I just cant see the cool factor in Apple products.
Whats your reason?
#1: this forum
#2: can't type texts without a hardware keyboard when i'm drunk
#3: tp is my 3rd htc phone
price would also be a factor
iphones without a tariff is a lot more expensive then a touch pro without a tariff
Welll, in random order
#: xda-devs support
#: custom roms
#: HTC user since 2005
#: size and h/w keyboard
and most of all
#: never was a fan of (maybe powerful but) overrated trendy devices over powerful business ones, end of story.
iPhone may be a "powerful" device, which can provide a similar experience to WM (or even better, that's a subjective matter). However the fact that the device itself is locked, and does not allow you to experience it fully (and I mean things which are supposed to be standard in smartphones, like multitasking) without jailbreaking it, tells me one thing and one thing only: that Apple does not respect it's customers.
For me it was a matter of carrier, and the 5-way navigator, because aside from those factors my Touch Pro is almost the same as an iPhone anyways with all the skins and mods
1. iPhone is 44% higher than my Touch Pro discounted Sprint monthly Everything Plan.
2. iPhone doesn't have a physical keyboard vs. huge Touch Pro keys.
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
VibrantRedGT said:
3. iPhone has zero customability. "There's an app for that" means nothing to me. Energy 6.5 with Sense2.5 ROM means a whole lot more.
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^^^^THIS^^^^
nagle3092 said:
Sadly I feel the opposite way. I'm thinking of selling my Fuze just because support for it sucks lets face it. Theres no where near the amount of developers for windows mobile as there is for the iphone. I find myself using my ipod touch way more than my fuze and the only thing I cant do on my ipod is make calls. Sure theres no hardware keyboard and its nice to have one but I could live without. One thing that kills me the most is the screen, its almost unbearable using my phone after I use my ipod but thats to be expected since they're different tech. But over all I find myself not liking my phone more and more everyday and I dont think its going to change. I think Im going to submit to apple with the next refresh of the iphone simply because Apple is the juggernaut of smart phones at this time. Until they find a way to standardize android its not going to shine, I truly think fragmentation is going to kill it and if it doesn't kill it, it will always be that other OS. And WP7 is a mess. For one I dont have a Facebook or any other social networking crap, nor do I have an xbox so all that integration is useless to me. Not to mention that the UI looks terrible. But thats my look on things and unfortunately the way things keep going I dont think its going to change.
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I'm sorry.....but April fools was on the 1st.
For myself it's all of what this guy says (from 3:40-4:00) in this iphone review "The Gadget Show" on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumP10hUaVs, and more.
When I think of iphone...I can't help of think of the Will Smith movie iRobot. I have thoughts of Apple trying to brain wash me into thinking that it's the only phone I need and I don't need to think for myself because "there's an app for that". It want's me to drop my guard and completely trust that it can run my life with only finger swipes across the screen yet.....it will not let me have a close relationship with by shutting me out of it's inner workings (battery replacement, removable storage). It try's to keep me hanging by a thread just strong enough to stay attached for a new version with "innovative" abilities like "copy and paste". It's true colors are hard to see through it's colorful ads and apps.
1: size
2: its need to always be on the net
3: can't sync calendar, contacts w/out using iTunes, which I cannot stand
4: can't multitask apps
I have both a fuze and an iPhone 3G (from my son when he moved to 3Gs.) Both phones are jail broken, so I decided to use the iPhone with an international SIM while traveling. I was really (&**&(*^( t'd off when I noticed that it always connects, thus incurring international data roaming charges. There's no way to make it not "call home" for one reason or another (checking if there's something new in app store, etc.) unless you tweak connectivity, block almost every app, or install some "firewall" to block all traffic. That just sucks if you travel a lot. ATT warned me, but I didn't think it was that bad.
International roaming data charges are nothing to mess with. I've never used an iphone, but I've heard that many of the apps are web-based widgets. One of the problems with not having things like a native file explorer is that if you download an app, you can't look in program files to see what the hell you just downloaded. You'd know if it was just a web app on winmo pretty easily, but I'm sure it's hard to keep track of everything loaded on an iphone.
I went from an iphone 3G to a Fuze to a 3GS to a Tilt2 back to a Fuze with a Bold 9000 in there at some point as well.
I can't do without the physical keypad. I email on the go a lot with my phone, and I just can't get used to virtual keyboards. Just can't do it. I'm also a sports nut, so browser navigating ability needs to be on point, meaning I need a touch screen. Now, I'll admit the iPhone's capacative touch screen beats the hell out of the pressure sensitive ones, although they'll get a lot better with some of the tweaks and ROMs available. There's no lag when you use the iphone's screen (although the newest ROMs for the Fuze have done a great job closing that gap, but it's still very much present). I miss that and the myriad of apps.
I really do hate Apple, what they did with the priority bandwidth with AT&T, and the fact they can't and absolutely won't support flash, along with that internal battery and no storage card. They could easily provide these features, but they don't simply because they don't HAVE to in order to sell the product. But, the iphone does what it does incredibly well. I'll concede to that.
I went back to the Fuze from my Tilt2 because I was pretty pissed that the hardware wasn't really upgraded much between those models. That was an unpleasant surprise. Also, the Fuze is SOLID. It's a beast, the tracks don't have tight tolerances, and the case is thick with robust corners. Plus, the Android development for the Fuze seemed to be further along than for the Tilt2. Also, when typing on the hardware keyboard for the Raphael, your thumbs do all the moving, and your hands don't. The Rhodium's bigger layout is nicer in that you hit the wrong key much less; however, you're moving your hands a lot too. I didn't like that. ROMs are also getting ridiculously good for WinMo devices.
Let's be honest; what the iPhone does, it does incredibly well, and if I didn't have needs (HW keypad) that it didn't meet, I would still have it, even though the Apple logo itself makes me want to kill a hippie every time I see it.
1. I'm used to Windows Mobile, having used it on a PDA for several years
2. Getting a refurbished Fuze through AT&T with an Employee Purchase and a 2 year contract brought the price of the Fuze down to a rather attractive $0.
Fate was kind to me. I'm glad to have stumbled upon the Fuze.
Mainly the Hardware Keyboard, but all-in-all, I simply love HTC devices.
Oh, and the Hardware Specs were actually pretty good for the Fuze, not the best, but for a device with a hardware keyboard, not bad.
I originally bought my Fuze because of the hardware keyboard. 6 months later, I bought an iPhone 3GS. I liked the Fuze for the most part, I just couldn't take WM anymore. With the stock firmware, my battery would not last a day. Timlol's stock like firmware made the battery life bearable and the device much more usable. But in the end, it was the limitations of WM that made me switch. It is nice having a browser that works, a mail client that can display messages and not move to the next message when you accidently move your finger sideways, a well stocked app store and a touchscreen that actually responds properly to touch.
I still have my Fuze and will use it to play around with the current Android project, but for day to day use as a phone and data device, the iPhone is it.
On your poll it was a hard toss-up between "Hate Apple products" and the "Other options (cooked ROMs, Android etc)".
My biggest factor was that it was more open to open source and cracked (aka free) software, and more moddifications that could be done to the firmware. The reason this could be done is because its not an Apple product.