I set my camera to take JPG and DNG files. One of the JPGs is 4080 x 3072 pixels, 3.6 MB and 96 dpi while the DNG file for that photo is 1280 x 964 pixels, 13.7 MB, and 96 dpi.
I am viewing them with the Photos app on my Windows 10 computer.
When I zoom into the same areas on the images, the JPG is 285% and the DNG 635%. Both images are the same size (occupy the same area) on my monitor. When I zoom into the images, the DNG is pixelated much, much more than the JPG.
I don't understand why the DNG file size is 3 times that of the JPG but the JPG has at least 4 times as much detail. Here is an example:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
It appears that the DNG has 10 MB of info that is not image-related. Can somebody please help me understand what's going on here?
DNG is a file format for raw data from the image sensor. It uses lossless compression, meaning that the compression it uses does not cause any loss of data/quality. In the context of a phone camera, this file format isn't really meant to be used as the final form or finished product. It is meant to be digitally developed in an application like Photoshop or Lightroom. By doing this the photographer is able to have more detail and information to work with and more control over the final product. Before processing, DNG images usually look a bit grainy/noisey, a bit washed out, with low contrast. DNG is used as a "Digital Negative" archival format, similar to how photo negatives were kept as master archival copies of film photos.
The JPG file that is created by your phone has already been processed to make it better by the camera software, meaning that things like contrast, color balance, saturation, sharpening, etc are already adjusted. So this can be one reason that the JPG looks better than the DNG. The JPG that is exported probably has at least some quality loss from the higher lossy compression and has less metadata. This means that if the file is adjusted or altered and saved again as a JPG the quality can degrade even more.
The DNG file should be close the to resolution of the JPG. I just compared some files of mine and the DNG is only about 16px shorter than the JPG. I am not sure of the reason for this. Maybe someone else can clear this up. DNG format can embed a JPG preview. I don't use Windows, but my guess is that maybe the image viewing program that you are using doesn't fully support DNG as is just showing the embedded JPG metadata.
Thank you for your reply.
>>I just compared some files of mine and the DNG is only about 16px shorter than the JPG.<<
Not sure how your DNG could be 16 pixels "shorter" than the corresponding JPG.
In my post I've described my photo in great detail in both its JPG and its DNG format. The DNG file is 13.7 MB and the JPG is 3.6 MB, about the same ratio as my other photos on the camera.
The DNG that I see on my screen is extremely over-sharpened. It looks like someone has gone bananas with the Sharpening function. Don't know why.
The DNG file does not contain the level of detail that is in the JPG when viewed on the screen. If you compare the leaves in the images you will notice that the leaves in the DNG are just about obliterated due to the low resolution while the same leaves in the JPG are clearly visible due to the higher resolution.)
>>The DNG file should be close the to resolution of the JPG.<<
In my experience, depending upon the content of the original TIF or DNG file, the file size of a JPG derived from a DNG file is about a tenth the size of a TIF or the DNG. Too bad there is no option for the Pixel 7 to save the photo as an uncompressed TIF.
Google has done an excellent job of creating JPGs from DNGs. Maybe what I'm seeing on my Windows 10 computer when I view a DNG file is not the full DNG but only a representation of the image used to approximate the actual photo? I dunno.
If I have misunderstood something about DNG files, perhaps somebody can chime in and show me what it is. I'd sure like to know how I can use them to create my own JPG or TIF files. If there is a program that can display the full 13.7 MB of my DNG file, I'd like to hear about it.
Skuddle said:
Not sure how your DNG could be 16 pixels "shorter" than the corresponding JPG.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is what I mean by 16px shorter. See the screenshots of the image dimensions of my JPG vs DNG below. They are roughly the same proportion, but the size difference (dimensions) is only about 0.04% in my case. So the height goes down by 16px and the width by 15px.
Spoiler
In my experience, depending upon the content of the original TIF or DNG file, the file size of a JPG derived from a DNG file is about a tenth the size of a TIF or the DNG. Too bad there is no option for the Pixel 7 to save the photo as an uncompressed TIF.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oops
Yeah, I was wrong here. I was focusing at the pixel dimensions and didn't see the resolution was different. Sorry about that. In the screenshots I posted near the beginning of the post the JPG is 3072x4080 at 72dpi and the DNG is 3056x4064 at 300dpi
In my post I've described my photo in great detail in both its JPG and its DNG format. The DNG file is 13.7 MB and the JPG is 3.6 MB, about the same ratio as my other photos on the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DNG files will usually be significantly larger in file size than a JPG of similar dimensions, because they contain more data and metadata and the lossless compression isn't as effective as a lossy compressor like JPG.
The DNG that I see on my screen is extremely over-sharpened. It looks like someone has gone bananas with the Sharpening function. Don't know why.
The DNG file does not contain the level of detail that is in the JPG when viewed on the screen. If you compare the leaves in the images you will notice that the leaves in the DNG are just about obliterated due to the low resolution while the same leaves in the JPG are clearly visible due to the higher resolution.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google has done an excellent job of creating JPGs from DNGs. Maybe what I'm seeing on my Windows 10 computer when I view a DNG file is not the full DNG but only a representation of the image used to approximate the actual photo? I dunno.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the application you are using (WIndows Photos App) doesn't properly support viewing DNG files. DNG files often have an embedded JPG image to be used as a preview. These embedded images can be used for things like image thumbnails in your operating system. The preview images is going to be smaller and lower resolution that the actual DNG data. I think you Photos app on your computer is just displaying the embedded JPG preview rather than the actual DNG data. Since DNG is sort of a specialty/proffessional file format, most photo apps just don't have full support for it.
I'd sure like to know how I can use them to create my own JPG or TIF files. If there is a program that can display the full 13.7 MB of my DNG file, I'd like to hear about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Adobe Lightroom to process my DNG files. Photoshop comes with the RAW plugin, which can also process them. Both of those application can get kind of expensive ,because they require a subscription. If you want something free you can try playing around with one of these:
darktable
darktable is an open source photography workflow application and raw developer
www.darktable.org
Home
rawtherapee.com
Skuddle said:
Thank you for your reply.
>>I just compared some files of mine and the DNG is only about 16px shorter than the JPG.<<
Not sure how your DNG could be 16 pixels "shorter" than the corresponding JPG.
In my post I've described my photo in great detail in both its JPG and its DNG format. The DNG file is 13.7 MB and the JPG is 3.6 MB, about the same ratio as my other photos on the camera.
The DNG that I see on my screen is extremely over-sharpened. It looks like someone has gone bananas with the Sharpening function. Don't know why.
The DNG file does not contain the level of detail that is in the JPG when viewed on the screen. If you compare the leaves in the images you will notice that the leaves in the DNG are just about obliterated due to the low resolution while the same leaves in the JPG are clearly visible due to the higher resolution.)
>>The DNG file should be close the to resolution of the JPG.<<
In my experience, depending upon the content of the original TIF or DNG file, the file size of a JPG derived from a DNG file is about a tenth the size of a TIF or the DNG. Too bad there is no option for the Pixel 7 to save the photo as an uncompressed TIF.
Google has done an excellent job of creating JPGs from DNGs. Maybe what I'm seeing on my Windows 10 computer when I view a DNG file is not the full DNG but only a representation of the image used to approximate the actual photo? I dunno.
If I have misunderstood something about DNG files, perhaps somebody can chime in and show me what it is. I'd sure like to know how I can use them to create my own JPG or TIF files. If there is a program that can display the full 13.7 MB of my DNG file, I'd like to hear about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue is that you're only getting a "Preview" with the DNG file hence the "low" resolution. When you open the same DNG in an editing software like Adobe PS or LR, (or any other) you will be able to work with the FULL resolution inside and edit it as you wish.
>>I think you Photos app on your computer is just displaying the embedded JPG preview rather than the actual DNG data.<<
>>The issue is that you're only getting a "Preview" with the DNG file hence the "low" resolution.<<
I think both of you are correct about the preview. Now to search for something affordable that will open a DNG and not just a preview.
Thank you both for your help! I'll download the "darktable" app and have a look.
Skuddle said:
>>I think you Photos app on your computer is just displaying the embedded JPG preview rather than the actual DNG data.<<
>>The issue is that you're only getting a "Preview" with the DNG file hence the "low" resolution.<<
I think both of you are correct about the preview. Now to search for something affordable that will open a DNG and not just a preview.
Thank you both for your help! I'll download the "darktable" app and have a look.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gimp can do it and it is free last I checked.
"darktable" doesn't work for me (tried, and uninstalled it).
Anyways, I fiddled around, trying this and that and was able to successfully open the DNG at its full resolution using Irfanview. For those who are interested, here's what I did:
I opened Irfanview and clicked on "Options", then on "Property Settings".
I clicked "PlugIns" at the bottom of the page. A "PlugIns" window opened.
"Try to load embedded preview..." at the top of the PlugIns window was checked, so I unchecked it and clicked "Okay".
I loaded a DNG file. It loaded at full resolution (i.e. no preview JPG!)
I saved the file as a TIF using "Save as" and was then able to open the TIF in my prehistoric Photoshop 7 app.
Related
Hi, I write this question " What is the best quality" between the JPG & PNG file format.
Well..... I have app "Camera FV-5" and it's let you choose catching file as these formats....
When I shot an image as jpg its about 5MB in size, but the same scene about 16MB in png... Did that mean it's best in quality.?
I know It's (png) a loosless format.
Did the quality of it's worth its big size.?
I hope the professional in file format & an experience help [emoji3].
With thanks
Sent from my LG-D855
deutsh said:
Hi, I write this question " What is the best quality" between the JPG & PNG file format.
Well..... I have app "Camera FV-5" and it's let you choose catching file as these formats....
When I shot an image as jpg its about 5MB in size, but the same scene about 16MB in png... Did that mean it's best in quality.?
I know It's (png) a loosless format.
Did the quality of it's worth its big size.?
I hope the professional in file format & an experience help [emoji3].
With thanks
Sent from my LG-D855
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In your case, yes, a .png image is better quality than a .jpg image.
deutsh said:
Hi, I write this question " What is the best quality" between the JPG & PNG file format.
Well..... I have app "Camera FV-5" and it's let you choose catching file as these formats....
When I shot an image as jpg its about 5MB in size, but the same scene about 16MB in png... Did that mean it's best in quality.?
I know It's (png) a loosless format.
Did the quality of it's worth its big size.?
I hope the professional in file format & an experience help [emoji3].
With thanks
Sent from my LG-D855
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as your matter is concerned....
From left to right, these files are: 24-bit JPG Compressed, 8-bit GIF, 8-bit PNG, Full Quality 24-bit JPG, and 24-bit PNG. Note that the file sizes increase in this same direction.
PNG is the largest image type for bigger images, often containing information you may or may not find useful, depending on your needs. 8-bit PNG is an option, but GIF is smaller. Neither are optimal options for photography, as JPG is much smaller than lossless PNG with only minimal loss of quality. And for storage of high resolution files, JPG compresses to tiny proportions, with quality loss only visible on close inspection.
In short:
PNG is good option for transparency and non-lossy, smaller files. Larger files, not so much, unless you demand non-lossy images.
GIF is largely a novelty and only useful for animation, but can produce small 8-bit images.
JPG is still the king for photographs and photo-like images on the internet, but be careful, as your file can degrade with every save.
Hope this is enough for you to get the point.
ayushbpl10
Thanks a lot, and I ( therefore) have another question :
" Did png have high range of lighting details like 0-255 as RAW file ( the jpg have just 0-100).?
Sent from my LG-D855
deutsh said:
Thanks a lot, and I ( therefore) have another question :
" Did png have high range of lighting details like 0-255 as RAW file ( the jpg have just 0-100).?
Sent from my LG-D855
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's nothing of that sort instead everything is manage by the bits per channel. PNG gives a much wider range of color depths, including 24-bit (8 bits per channel) and 48-bit (16 bits per channel) truecolor, allowing for greater color precision, smoother fades, etc.[25] When an alpha channel is added, up to 64 bits per pixel (before compression) are possible. This is more technical & holds importance for a photographer only.
ayushbpl10
ayushbpl10 said:
There's nothing of that sort instead everything is manage by the bits per channel. PNG gives a much wider range of color depths, including 24-bit (8 bits per channel) and 48-bit (16 bits per channel) truecolor, allowing for greater color precision, smoother fades, etc.[25] When an alpha channel is added, up to 64 bits per pixel (before compression) are possible. This is more technical & holds importance for a photographer only.
ayushbpl10
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot [emoji2]
Sent from my LG-D855
JPG (Joint Photographic Experts Group)
JPG was a filetype developed by the Joint Photographic Experts Group (JPEG) to be a standard for professional photographers. Like the method ZIP files use to find redundancies in files to compress data, JPGs compress image data by reducing sections of images to blocks of pixels or “tiles.” JPG compression has the unfortunate side effect of being permanent, however, as the technology for the file was created for storing large photographic image files in surprisingly small spaces, and not for photo editing.
GIF (Graphics Interchange Format)
GIF, like JPG, is an older filetype, and one generally associated with the internet as opposed to photography. GIF stands for “Graphics Interchange Format” and employs the same lossless LZW compression that TIFF images use. This technology was once controversial (for patent enforcement issues) but has become an accepted format since all patents have expired.
PNG (Portable Network Graphics)
PNG stands for Portable Network Graphics (or, depending on whom you ask, the recursive “PNG-Not-GIF”). It was developed as an open alternative to GIF, which used the proprietary LZW compression algorithm discussed earlier. PNG is an excellent filetype for internet graphics, as it supports transparency in browsers with an elegance that GIF does not possess. Notice how the transparent color changes and blends with the background. Right-click the image to see. This is actually one image that is on four different background colors.
Which to use?
From left to right, these files are: 24-bit JPG Compressed, 8-bit GIF, 8-bit PNG, Full Quality 24-bit JPG, and 24-bit PNG. Note that the file sizes increase in this same direction.
PNG is the largest image type for bigger images, often containing information you may or may not find useful, depending on your needs. 8-bit PNG is an option, but GIF is smaller. Neither are optimal options for photography, as JPG is much smaller than lossless PNG with only minimal loss of quality. And for storage of high resolution files, JPG compresses to tiny proportions, with quality loss only visible on close inspection.
In short:
PNG is good option for transparency and non-lossy, smaller files. Larger files, not so much, unless you demand non-lossy images.
GIF is largely a novelty and only useful for animation, but can produce small 8-bit images.
JPG is still the king for photographs and photo-like images on the internet, but be careful, as your file can degrade with every save.
*Press thanks if you find it useful*
ayushbpl10
I have just started to use the 1020. It's running Windows Mobile 8.1 with Denim.
There are other phones with comparable photo qualities, but there is no other phone that has the reframing feature. This is huge.
To have this feature, the phone needs to save the 5Mp photo and the .jpg high definition file. This is the only combination that allows reframing. I have auto update enabled and only the high definition .jpg is uploaded. If I reframing a photo, a second copy of the .jpg high definition photo is automatically uploaded. This is a total waste. For uploading I mainly need the result (the 5Mp) and not the high definition photo.
What do I need to do to auto upload only the 5Mp photo and keep the reframing feature?
Thanks
Hi all, I tried to do some shots in RAW mode. After the shot I have two files: a JPG and a DNG. The jpg is perfect as always, but the DNG File is pixelate and it's very bad. I asked at the Honor official page and they said that's normal because I'm watching it on my smartphone and that on PC the quality would be different, but is it really normal?
To my knowledge, the phone shows just the jpg thumbnail of the raw file (since it would be quite cpu consuming to "develop" the raw data each time). So if you open the raw file in Lightroom or raw converter, it should be fine. Also if you edit the dng on the phone and save the result as jpg, the jpg quality should be ok. At least this is my experience (I use raw mode quite a lot to later edit the raw files in Lightroom).
So there's no way to see a clear image while elaborating it. I will se the good results only at the end.
What exactly do you mean by "pixelated"? And what app do you use to watch the raw image? On the Honor's builtin Gallery app the dng is quite ok quality. If you use a third-party app, it's possible that it cannot dig the best-quality preview from the dng file.
I mean this
While the jpeg is this
I have tried several apps but they either don't recognise the phone's camera app's DNG format or they are simply useless for other reasons e.g. always writing the output to some directory (folder) in the device filespace which one then has to move them out of.
I need something which can convert them from the SD card
e.g. 0000-0000/DCIM/Camera
to the same place.
The S7 is rooted, with SDfix etc.
I would appreciate any tips. Basically I would like an app which works with the Samsung DNG format and which has configurable in and out folders.
Android v6, not v7, rooted.
If you have RAW enabled in camera settings, the phone also stores a JPEG of the exact same photo, so no need to convert them really
Not sure about Android apps, but on PC just load them into your favourite RAW photo editor and export them as JPEGs (Lightroom for example)
Not quite... taking the DNG and processing it with say Lightroom produces a vastly better quality photo.
See e.g. here for examples
https://www.euroga.org/forums/websi...anywhere-as-good-as-a-dslr/post/166993#166993
The Jpegs from the phone are over-contrasty and over-sharpened. One should never apply unsharp mask until the image is resized to the final resolution (if at all).
Yes I know that, which is why I suggestion Lightroom
Converting on the phone is not going to give anywhere near the same results as PC Lightroom
Use a PC
Not quite... taking the DNG and processing it with say Lightroom produces a vastly better quality photo.
See e.g. here for examples
https://www.euroga.org/forums/websi...anywhere-as-good-as-a-dslr/post/166993#166993
The Jpegs from the phone are over-contrasty and over-sharpened. One should never apply unsharp mask until the image is resized to the final resolution (if at all).
The real issue IMHO is that all the camera apps are mostly just control panels for the camera API. They don't AIUI get the image to play with. That is why e.g. all of them have the same contrast steps, same exposure range, etc. The JPG is done by the OS and the app gets what it gets. One camera app developer explained this to me.