Related
is it just me?
it seems that the front camera quality is better then the back camera ,
i know that its less MP, but yet
or its just my tf?
me too, the front camera's picture is clearer and less grainy.
I was coming to this forum to comment on the camera. The little window that protects the camera on my TF is dirty as hell. Could that be the situation for you too???
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Even fresh out of the packaging, the rear camera still is grainy as all hell. FFC isn't AS bad, but still grainy, and still looks better than the rear camera.
I find them both equally grainy...equally crappy. One of the only things I'd change about the Transformer...put a nicer camera in it. You can have nice pics come out of a 5 MP camera, look at the iPhone..
If the source code was released maybe we could fix it if its software related I mean it is a 5mp camera after all
Sent from my GT540RR using XDA App
Danzano said:
If the source code was released maybe we could fix it if its software related I mean it is a 5mp camera after all
Sent from my GT540RR using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Megapixel count is not indicative of camera quality. The image sensor is much more important. I had a 4 MP point & shoot that would blow away my iPhone 4.
Artood2s said:
Megapixel count is not indicative of camera quality. The image sensor is much more important. I had a 4 MP point & shoot that would blow away my iPhone 4.
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Click to collapse
This. Sensor and photodiode size is a much bigger indicator of image quality (albeit not the only one) than is the near-worthless megapixel. Cellphones, tablets, and the like generally use sensors not much different in size to a grain of rice. Couple that with the fact that many use partially or entirely plastic lenses, and you have the answer for why their picture quality is near-universally awful.
To give you an idea, the typical area of a camera phone sensor is 4.32 square millimeters. Most fixed-lens compact cameras typically have a sensor with an area of ~25+ square millimeters, and interchangeable-lens cameras are typically in the range of 225-370 square millimeters. That difference is a good indication of just how little light-gathering potential a cell phone cam has.
Same spot, same conditions (light, weather, location) and the back cam is grainy, the front camera's pictures look better!
no the back camera is clean.
Well, the Front camera is certainly brighter but not as focused as the Rear.
my camera is amazing on both sides, crystal clear quality, although at first it was grainy, now its very clear
dsexton702 said:
my camera is amazing on both sides, crystal clear quality, although at first it was grainy, now its very clear
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Click to collapse
"At first" and "now"? What's changed? Tablet exchange, using different camera software, or something else? Camera's don't get better with age (the opposite, actually), so it'd be interesting to know what you believe has made the difference. Or are you simply shooting in better lighting conditions now?
I find the video is fantastic though
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
I have taken some very clear pictures and videos with the rear camera with good light of course. My front camera is no where near as clear as the rear camera. Makes me think something may be wrong with your device if the 1.2 mega pixel camera looks better the the 5 meg rear one.
Hi,Take a look ?
Search Youtube
The Cook Family's match: The Windows Phone 8X by HTC - Full Length
Even that is a MyTouch 3G
But I still felt uncomfortable
If window phone 8x compare to MyTouch 4G
is there any chance 4G could beat 8X?
Sorry, I can not post the youtube link.
plusyou88 said:
Hi,Take a look ?
Search Youtube
The Cook Family's match: The Windows Phone 8X by HTC - Full Length
Even that is a MyTouch 3G
But I still felt uncomfortable
If window phone 8x compare to MyTouch 4G
is there any chance 4G could beat 8X?
Sorry, I can not post the youtube link.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He compared using the front-facing camera. Nobody seriously uses the front camera, it is a lame VGA 1.3MP sensor. Had he used the rear camera, the MyTouch would have held its own against the Nokia.
Fuzi0719 said:
He compared using the front-facing camera. Nobody seriously uses the front camera, it is a lame VGA 1.3MP sensor. Had he used the rear camera, the MyTouch would have held its own against the Nokia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ!
Anyone using phone for what it is - a communication device - normally uses the front camera a lot, not the rear one, don't you agree?
Personally I could live without rear camera at all, all those hailed "great features" of MT4GS' built-in rear camera's (and any other phone's cameras!) are easily beaten by any crappiest $20 standalone photo camera toys with a 1 inch lens (or more), and that's a fact... This rear camera module cost mere $2 or less from manufacturer (depending on quantity) and either same or very similar ones are built-in into many toys (i.e. latest Barbie with camera and screen)... Anyways, I never understood why anyone would even consider taking any more or less serious photos with the phone's tiny plastic single-optic lens. It's not like photo/video cameras with proper optics cost arm and leg nowadays... I can hardly think of more than very few situations where the rear camera may be needed instead of front camera.
Oh and having said that: Windows Phone 8 sucks. I haven't seen any difference from WP7, which IMO is the worst mobile OS ever.
MT4GS said:
I beg to differ!
Anyone using phone for what it is - a communication device - usually use the front camera a lot, don't you think?
Personally I could live without rear camera at all, all those hailed "great features" of MT4GS' built-in rear camera's are easily beaten by any crappiest $20 standalone photo camera toys with a 2 inch lens (or more), and that's a fact... This rear camera module cost mere $2-$3, either same or very similar one are built-in into many toys (i.e. latest Barbie with camera and screen)... Anyways, I never understood why anyone would even consider taking any more or less serious photos with the phone's tiny plastic single-optic lens. It's not like photo/video cameras with proper optics cost arm and leg nowadays... I can hardly think of more than very few situations where the rear camera may be needed instead of front camera.
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Click to collapse
Really?! I'm tired of people saying their phones aren't real, respectable (ish) cameras. No offense personally, dude... I just see this as a common misconception among my fellow techies. Most 8MP and above take decent enough shots to be compared to a regular consumer grade camera. Obviously, not in ALL situations (like low light at a distance, optical zoom, etc.) but enough to be used seriously to capture a memory of loved one, day trip, unexpected wild life, etc. The MAIN point is who the hell carries a camera around with them?! Very few... so yeah, I'd say some of the newer phones can be considered serious (ish) cameras. Of course these are just opinions so we can't really prove or disprove much but I have to say that most pics are taken by mobiles and must be considered serious based on quantity alone. Remember that few people actually know what a DSLR camera is... let alone carry one. We technical minded people forget that most aren't in the same mindset we are.
I too am fond of the front facing camera of nokia phones. And that's only because nokia supports 3g Video calling unlike android that uses the front camera only for internet based video calling. Quality wise I don't really mind at all since they all are crap anyways. I would be greatful to have a 8mp front facing camera with superb compression so it wouldn't have any impacts on data transfer. But yeah it's just a dream haha
sino8r said:
Really?! I'm tired of people saying their phones aren't real, respectable (ish) cameras. No offense personally, dude... I just see this as a common misconception among my fellow techies. Most 8MP and above take decent enough shots to be compared to a regular consumer grade camera. Obviously, not in ALL situations (like low light at a distance, optical zoom, etc.) but enough to be used seriously to capture a memory of loved one, day trip, unexpected wild life, etc. The MAIN point is who the hell carries a camera around with them?! Very few... so yeah, I'd say some of the newer phones can be considered serious (ish) cameras. Of course these are just opinions so we can't really prove or disprove much but I have to say that most pics are taken by mobiles and must be considered serious based on quantity alone. Remember that few people actually know what a DSLR camera is... let alone carry one. We technical minded people forget that most aren't in the same mindset we are.
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Click to collapse
Of course it is personal prefernce, so our discussion is actually a moot.
I do agree with you (mostly), but you missed my point, which is that almost anything you may use rear camera for - all of it can be done with the front camera, but not the other way aroound (i.e. you can't use rear camera for videocall). I'd rather have a good front camera, because 99% of the time that's the camera I use, that's all. Rear camera is a gimmick to fool people, but that's just my opinion. (edit - actually not only mine, since i.e. latest Google tablets ditched the rear cameras, yet they kept the front ones...)
Regarding the quality - there is no need to "defend" the phone cameras, because I am not "attacking" them; they are what they are: cheapest cameras around and just because at certain conditions they are able to take decent shots proves nothing. Anyways, IMO the phone cameras are akin to old disposable "analog" (35mm film) cameras, they had their market too. I have actually seen people taking wedding photos with those! And there is nothing wrong with that, it's all just personal preference, really.
The fact is that when you have no camera around, even the crappiest one is a god-send, right?
edit:
The same way death of stupid iPods was just a matter of time once the first smartphones became capable of playing music and videos, the same way the "point & shoot" cameras will disappear in the next few years. People always prefer "all-in-one" devices instead of carrying multiple single-purpose devices. Let's not forget that the "convenience" always wins over "quality" (it has been proven many times), and that's why I am sure within next few years all these typical "point & shoot" cameras will disappear completely (replaced by built-in phone cameras). Camera market will consist mostly of pro and consumer DSLRs and some more-less specialized cams (3D perhaps? assuming this current 3D TV fad keeps going on).
MT4GS said:
I beg to differ!
Anyone using phone for what it is - a communication device - normally uses the front camera a lot, not the rear one, don't you agree?
Personally I could live without rear camera at all, all those hailed "great features" of MT4GS' built-in rear camera's (and any other phone's cameras!) are easily beaten by any crappiest $20 standalone photo camera toys with a 1 inch lens (or more), and that's a fact... This rear camera module cost mere $2 or less from manufacturer (depending on quantity) and either same or very similar ones are built-in into many toys (i.e. latest Barbie with camera and screen)... Anyways, I never understood why anyone would even consider taking any more or less serious photos with the phone's tiny plastic single-optic lens. It's not like photo/video cameras with proper optics cost arm and leg nowadays... I can hardly think of more than very few situations where the rear camera may be needed instead of front camera.
Oh and having said that: Windows Phone 8 sucks. I haven't seen any difference from WP7, which IMO is the worst mobile OS ever.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but you really don't know WTF you're saying, so just stop. Thank you for your time.
---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
Riyal said:
I too am fond of the front facing camera of nokia phones. And that's only because nokia supports 3g Video calling unlike android that uses the front camera only for internet based video calling. Quality wise I don't really mind at all since they all are crap anyways. I would be greatful to have a 8mp front facing camera with superb compression so it wouldn't have any impacts on data transfer. But yeah it's just a dream haha
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Click to collapse
We can do 3G video calling on our MT4GS just fine. I've used Skype and QIK to make video calls without any problem, and not on Wi-Fi.
Fuzi0719 said:
Sorry, but you really don't know WTF you're saying, so just stop. Thank you for your time.
.
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LOL I think exactly the same about your opinion, so why you just don't stop?
I use my front facing camera like 200 times a day.... No lie
CoNsPiRiSiZe said:
I use my front facing camera like 200 times a day.... No lie
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Click to collapse
I use the front WAY more than the back camera. I mean yeah the back camera comes in handy for weird clouding in the sky, but nothing beats sitting there doing 'self portraits' of me and my daughter
Sent from a KangBanged JellyBean
I use my FFC *MAYBE* 2x a year.
I use the rear camera daily @ work as well as at play.
YMMV. We all place different value on our devices based on our lifestyle and values.
Hastily spouted for your befuddlement
In the 14 months I've owned this phone, I've used the front camera for a photo maybe 3 times. I use the rear camera a lot, at least a dozen times a week on average and when I was living in China this past summer I took over 1000 photos and a dozen HD videos using the rear camera. I've used the front camera for webcam about 6 times.
I did an informal survey among my friends. Of the 9 friends I asked who have phones with a front camera, only 2 of them had ever used the front camera for a photo, and that's because they are self-pic whores. HAHAHA
Lol I'd hope a brand new phone beats a phone that's nearly a year and a half old. But in all seriousness, I still think the MT4GS's camera is still pretty solid. I mean not the GREATEST, but it's not very bad either. The front facing camera I do use a lot and it's not quite the BEST, but I've never needed the BEST front facing camera, if it works then I'm good to go.
Wrong thread lol!
Riyal said:
Wrong thread lol!
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I just hate it when I do that.
I bet we will see the beginning of the end for most point and shoots when they add optical zoom and dslr to smartphones. Like what MT4GS said, most end users prefer all in one devices. Very good point about death of ipod. I always thought that mp3 players were stupid since I was using my WM device/G1 as one. I eventually ran out of memory since the 16GB cards were expensive at the time and opted for a 32GB model mp3 player. These days... you can get a 64GB class 10 card for under a $100 which makes mp3 players obsolete. I'm sure cameras will never meet that end quite as dramatically or in numbers even for just consumers but I can see that cameras on smartphones will hit 12mp soon enough and become commonplace when optical zoom is introduced. I'm sure most manufacturers are concerned about thickness, how they can make the lens retreat mostly into the housing, and mostly... safe on their drop tests Personally, I wish they'd work on better lens because 12mp camera can look like **** with inferior lens. As far as the front camera goes, our little VGA doesn't cut it for picture... for me, at least. It is handy for video calls and nothing more imho. Even the latest, which usually include up to 1.3mp, is rather poor quality. I've been disappointed at the rate manufacturers have improved them thus far. I guess time will tell, huh?
As far as DSLR goes, I'm sure it will be added when they become more commonplace in the consumer realm. HDR seems to be adding to all models as a feature like panorama. The photography world has become very exciting lately
Fuzi0719 said:
In the 14 months I've owned this phone, I've used the front camera for a photo maybe 3 times. I use the rear camera a lot, at least a dozen times a week on average and when I was living in China this past summer I took over 1000 photos and a dozen HD videos using the rear camera. I've used the front camera for webcam about 6 times.
I did an informal survey among my friends. Of the 9 friends I asked who have phones with a front camera, only 2 of them had ever used the front camera for a photo, and that's because they are self-pic whores. HAHAHA
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Click to collapse
You still don't get it.
I will try one more time slower for you
Whatever you use your rear camera for, it can be done with front camera in almost every case. If MT4GS had the 8Mpx front camera with all the same features (and no rear camera) you would be using it the same way as you already did with this camera being in the rear - AND all of us using only/mostly the current front camera would be using it the same way as we did so far too, don't you get it? The rear camera is redundant in 99% cases of use.
You have used the rear cam only because you wanted take photos or videos in a higher resolution (than the current front camera's VGA). Simply replace the front VGA cam with 8Mpx camera from the back and you don't need 2 of them anymore.
What I would actually prefer instead of 2 cameras is having a second small screen on the back (to be used as i.e. "viewfinder" for those rare occasions when the front camera would be used for taking photos of something, but anyways there are plenty of other/better uses for second small screen on the rear), but that's another matter...
edit:
I just did same survey, 6 ppl:
4 agree the rear camera is redundant and they do or would use only front camera if there was no rear cam
1 person has only front cam (and she said she don't need rear camera at all)
1 person said he would NOT buy phone without 2 cameras (front and back)
so...
MT4GS said:
You still don't get it.
I will try one more time slower for you
Whatever you use your rear camera for, it can be done with front camera in almost every case. If MT4GS had the 8Mpx front camera with all the same features (and no rear camera) you would be using it the same way as you already did with this camera being in the rear - AND all of us using only/mostly the current front camera would be using it the same way as we did so far too, don't you get it? The rear camera is redundant in 99% cases of use.
You have used the rear cam only because you wanted take photos or videos in a higher resolution (than the current front camera's VGA). Simply replace the front VGA cam with 8Mpx camera from the back and you don't need 2 of them anymore.
What I would actually prefer instead of 2 cameras is having a second small screen on the back (to be used as i.e. "viewfinder" for those rare occasions when the front camera would be used for taking photos of something, but anyways there are plenty of other/better uses for second small screen on the rear), but that's another matter...
edit:
I just did same survey, 6 ppl:
4 agree the rear camera is redundant and they do or would use only front camera if there was no rear cam
1 person has only front cam (and she said she don't need rear camera at all)
1 person said he would NOT buy phone without 2 cameras (front and back)
so...
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Click to collapse
It is really sad when a narcissist has so pissed off everyone else in his life that he's reduced to taking his own self-pics with the front-facing camera on his phone. :laugh: And no, I would not use the front camera even if it were a higher quality. The photos I take are of other subjects, not myself. I'm not that vain.
MT4GS said:
You still don't get it.
I will try one more time slower for you
Whatever you use your rear camera for, it can be done with front camera in almost every case. If MT4GS had the 8Mpx front camera with all the same features (and no rear camera) you would be using it the same way as you already did with this camera being in the rear - AND all of us using only/mostly the current front camera would be using it the same way as we did so far too, don't you get it? The rear camera is redundant in 99% cases of use.
You have used the rear cam only because you wanted take photos or videos in a higher resolution (than the current front camera's VGA). Simply replace the front VGA cam with 8Mpx camera from the back and you don't need 2 of them anymore.
What I would actually prefer instead of 2 cameras is having a second small screen on the back (to be used as i.e. "viewfinder" for those rare occasions when the front camera would be used for taking photos of something, but anyways there are plenty of other/better uses for second small screen on the rear), but that's another matter...
edit:
I just did same survey, 6 ppl:
4 agree the rear camera is redundant and they do or would use only front camera if there was no rear cam
1 person has only front cam (and she said she don't need rear camera at all)
1 person said he would NOT buy phone without 2 cameras (front and back)
so...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not to tease but what do you do when you take pics other than yourself & someone/something? I agree with Fuzi... I'm just not sure how people are taking so many FFC pics.... Am I missing something? Again, no sarcasm intended. Just curious and confused
sino8r said:
Not to tease but what do you do when you take pics other than yourself & someone/something? I agree with Fuzi... I'm just not sure how people are taking so many FFC pics.... Am I missing something? Again, no sarcasm intended. Just curious and confused
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Click to collapse
I have a folder on my sdcard that's nothing but self pics of me and my kid TOGETHER. And its around a few hundred photos, then there's me and my fiance together ect.
Also the ffc is a mirror for me when I cut my own hair and need to see the back of my head and only one mirror is there...I mean the ffc has more uses than what's being looked at.
Btw I notice this thread has gone way off track to MT and fuzi opinion thread on why this camera is better than that camera
Sent from a KangBanged JellyBean
EDIT: There are probably dozens of reviews/comparisons, but here are two just from today that are also harsh: Krystal Key and PocketNow. And UrAverageConsumer's wife's comments here and here "it does look a little washed out...it is a little soft...I'm not a fan of it...it's good enough..."
The consensus seems to be that the front camera is "soft" (aka it looks permanently out of focus or blurry), the rear cam consistently blows out highlights with or without HDR, and video is wobbly and distorted despite ois AND eis. To be clear (pun intended) this is not a problem with the sensors, but with Samsung's processing. If Google's Camera app didn't disable HDR+ on non-Nexus devices then the S8 it would very likely take the best pictures of any smartphone ever.
Here are my samples shot with my S8 with the better Sony sensors, and a Nexus 6P from 18 months ago. For maximum quality from the S8, HDR is enabled and beauty disabled. 6P is in auto mode. Be sure to right click on the side-by-side compilation images and open in a new tab to see them at full size, where the detail quality—rather than just the light/color quality—is most apparent.
==============================================
FULL GALLERY
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 1/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 2/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 1/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 2/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 3/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 4/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 5/5: N6P — GS8
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BONUS - 2MP tablet front cam with no HDR from 2015
==============================================
SUPER BONUS - Mystery camera! Can you guess?
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
.psd said:
All in the interest of honesty (it's OK to be honest!)
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Click to collapse
Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
Samsung frontcams are always behind the competition. Not sure why. Agreed with OP's honest review.
BarryH_GEG said:
Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
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Click to collapse
I also included nearly 30 minutes of reviews of the camera by PocketNow and Krystal Key, but there are likely dozens of reviews by now showing the same thing.
The front cam looks like it's always out of focus—what reviewers universally are calling "soft". The rear cam consistently blows out the highlights even with HDR on. Video is wobbly and distorted despite having OIS AND EIS. In all cases, this is due to Samsung's processing because devices with inferior sensors from Google or Apple don't have these problems.
Something here in which i agree is that over-exposing. The Galaxy S8 loves doing this in certain situations where it shouldn't be doing but most of all is the auto-focus feature for me. Auto-Focus can be a mess when it wants too, simple macros where it should focus with ease it can't do that. I took my S6 and i found that in certain situations it was able to get a faster better macro with one tap compared to the S8. I felt that this one is a bit sloppy, and requires a lot of fiddling to get a good focus point. But don't get me wrong, whenever the phone is able to focus and does a good job in auto mode the photos look amazing. Overall my only complaint is the auto-focus on close-up shots and some over exposing. I really think these can be tweaked with a software update but honestly this phone should have had a completely new rear camera in the first place without being forced to wait for the new Note. I still believe this phone was a bit rushed, it looks stunning and awesome performance but man those software tweaks and scrolling bugs, and stutters and red screens could have been avoided. Oh yes.. let's not forget that Image Stabilization , wobbly videos and front face focus as mentioned above, i think these sometimes do a mess of a job. Real let down from the camera side of things for me.
I didn't do detailed comparison but for rear camera, which is the one i care the most, my S8+ seems similar and even slightly better than my Note 7.
Consumer Reports did more detailed comparison, they think the s8 has the best 12MP camera there is. And according this photo, in low light it's indeed a lot better than the s7.
https://youtu.be/3MmjHMWwtPU
So no, the s8 rear camera is NOT The Worst On A Flagship Phone In Years
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
No issues, amazing camera. Coming from a Pixel, pixel does look nicer but not by far.
When someone is doing pixel peeping, i am sure you can find flaws about every cameras out there. I look at overall quality and usability such as speed of launch and speed of taking the actual picture. After all phone pictures are all about capturing the moment.
Turn off one of the stabilizations. They dont both need to be on. Also, every samsung has let you adjust the exposure level..
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
The pictures are a lot better than the pictures the HTC M8 took.
Darkestred said:
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
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Click to collapse
Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
willymcd said:
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
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Click to collapse
Whoa, no way the s6 takes better pictures. I just did my own comparison and ask the s6 photos are so dark and fuzzy
.psd said:
Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
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Click to collapse
I never said anything about that. I just said in my use i feel its better. Here are 2 sample pics i did. I dont have any fancy setup so its all manual and i realize my pictures are not lined up but i got lazy. I feel the color in the s8 is way nicer and while it does get soft or blend in details like my scruff - i still think overall it does a nicer shot. Its not always a perfect shot. out of the 6 i took one came out blurry.
If my pictures aren't perfect enough - i really do not care. Take it for what its worth.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3F4QJb82X1ReV9mVUMzRzJTdmc
I too made a thread because I noticed how soft this front camera is. I'm super disappointed.
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Looking at the pics it does look like the S8 shots are worse(maybe not) / different from other phones. In all of these reviews the one thing no one has mentioned is that smartphone cameras are largely software dependent. While the S8 is on software that has come right out of the box, 6p as used here has had a whole year's worth of updates some of which definitely did bring updates to the camera software. I still love the S8 and believe that future software updates can and will iron out the issues with the camera. (Just hoping Samsung doesn't drop the ball on the updates front).
Eddie Hicks said:
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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Click to collapse
That's the one I linked in the OP...??
kornelius1982 said:
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
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Click to collapse
No because image hosts strip the metadata for user protection (e.g. location data) and it would take too long to do it for each picture the following way (e.g. undelete them from google photos and screencap some of the metadata minus the location, then save each file, then upload it, then link it here):
Here's the data for 2 of them to prove they were shot on the S8:
#1 — #2
With phones starting to ship now I figured I'd get the ball rolling with a camera discussion / Image sample thread. I'll be sure to update this post once I have the device and get some sample shots. With the not so great reviews of the camera, I think this is a great thread to discuss the camera of the Essential phone. I'm sure it's going to bring a lot of debate
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
Goronok said:
I feel like the 360 camera was a bad choice as a first accessory.
A super high quality normal snap-on sensor would have changed the way this phone was received.
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The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
tech_head said:
The camera issues are software related.
The processing may need tweaking with real world shooting. The app has issues. I think they will sort the camera out. For me it's not a big deal since I almost always have a camera with an APS-C sensor around. I only do phone cameras in an emergency.
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Essential is saying it's software related in PR statements. But the camera issues have been around for months and they haven't been able to fix it. Droid Life reported on it back in June: http://www.droid-life.com/2017/06/05/essential-phone-camera-sample/
I think it's likely that they are using small 1/3 sensors (in order to have no camera hump in a thin phone); they seem to been avoiding publishing any information about what the actual sensors are in the phone and their size. That would definitely explain the low light issues. No software update is going to fix that.
And there have been so many cell phones that have come out with camera issues and promises of software fixes that never materialize. At best minor improvements happen. So I would not hold my breath for Essential being able to make huge imporvements. If they could have, they would have before they started handing it out to reviewers. It's not like they couldn't go out and snap photos like the reviewers are doing and see the problems (and if they didn't do that, then that level of incompetence makes me believe even less that there will be a miracle fix).
So I think people should be prepared for this being what the camera is more or less going to be like, with maybe some minor improvements.
cb474 said:
I'm wondering what is the actual sensor being used for the camera. Is it one of the Sony Exmor sensors that most phones use these days? If so, which one? It seems odd to me that this had not been reported on the way it usually is with flagship phones claiming to have great cameras, like the Pixel and U11.
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Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
Kay1000RR said:
Sony IMX258
360 camera is IMX378
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Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
cb474 said:
Thanks. Yeah, I saw that yesterday. As I predicted, the sensor, IMX258, is a 1/3 sensor (and two years old at that). Super disappointing. This definitely explains the bad low light performance (along with EIS instead of OIS). As I said, I really doubt software updates are going to do much to improve it. Samsung has been putting larger sensors (1/2.5) in their phones for four years now. I big part of why the Pixel and U11 have good cameras are because of the 1/2.3 sensors in them. There is just no excuse for a so called "flagship" phone these days have a 1/3 sensor in it.
It seems like Essential was just overly obssessed with their perfectly flat back idea (which I don't even think looks so great, it's almost too plain) and thought they could do "magic" by combining two 1/3 sensors, one in BW mode, and somehow produce better pictures from two lower grade sensors. 2X bad information does not equal good information. Yeah, maybe they'll get a little extra detail out of the extra monochrome sensor. But it's not going to compete with a larger sensor. And it really doesn't look like they have even used the extra monochrome sensor well (while suffering the expense of severe shutter lag while the camera tries to interpolate the information from two sensors).
I'm really disappointed that they cheaped out on the camera and were overly obssessed with not having even the tiniest camera hump (which I think Samsung and Apple have proven people are totally fine with and still think their designs are great). What attracts me to the Essential phone is the large screen in a small phone size (and the titanium and ceramic are nice pluses); but I really don't give a damn about a perfectly flat back. To get the nice design with the screen I was willing to accept the lack of a 3.5 mm jack and other corners they cut on features. But they hyped the camera as being great, when they knew they had inferior sensors in it. If they can't get the things they do have in the phone right, it's hard for me to still want to get this phone (or trust this company).
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You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
Goronok said:
I'm not quite ready to dismiss it either. While the LG G6 may not win any awards for its main camera, it is definitely serviceable. Technically, the essential phone should take better snaps with the monochrome sensor combo too.
The Google camera port should help sweeten things too. I dunno, we'll see.
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Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
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A developer ported the Pixel version of the app with its special SW processing. So it's not really the Google camera but the Pixel camera app. I asked Michael Fisher if he tried the Pixel cam port and if it made a difference and he heard it does improve the camera but he hasn't tried it himself.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
IM0001 said:
It also might help even more once we get Root as there is adb command to do that allows the Google HDR+ camera to use the hardware imaging processor in the qualcomn chips to work with it. Will be trying this as soon as I can.
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Interested in seeing this.
tech_head said:
You are are neglecting to factor in the increase in pixel density of the larger sensors.
The 258 has an area of 4.84mm^2 the 318 has an area of 5.24 mm^2 this is a 8% increase in area but a 60% increase in pixel.
With the pixels smaller the light collection ability and noise performance is not necessarily better.
The 318 is the newest mobile sensor that Sony has and it has 1um pixels.
They claim no drop in low light performance and noise from their 1.12um pixel sensors.
Mind you , they do not claim an increase in low light performance or noise,
So I'm not ready to dismiss the camera yet.
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Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
km8j said:
Google camera is a port? Not just an app? Will it take advantage of both sensors?
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It's both. Someone ported over the pixel HDR+ processing to work on most snapdragon 820/821/835 devices.
Really works quite well, although no, I don't think it will utilize the B&W sensor.
cb474 said:
Huh?
The 1/2.3 sensor in the phones I was mentioning is something like the IMX378 (in the Pixel). The IMX318 is not in any of the phones I was talking about. The IMX378 in the Pixel and and the sensor in the U11 (IMX362) are physically larger and have larger pixels, 1.55 um and 1.4 um respectively. Or also something like the IMX333 in the S8. That's why they do exactly what I said which is capture more light, rather than mindlessly chase higher megapixel counts.
The IMX318 is just a megapixel chasing sensor (22.5 MP), which is probably why it's only in more gimmicky phones, like the Zenfone and the Mi Note 2. Anyway, it has absolutely zero to do with any of the phones or types of sensors I was talking about. I have no idea why you brought it up.
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Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
tech_head said:
Okay, you are right about the 318.
The other sensors, Sony promotes a for cameras and they do not promote mobile. At least officially.
Essential made a design decision not to have a camera bump and also what would fit in the package.
Design is all about trade-offs. I've seen the pics of how full the thing is. Maybe one of the others just wouldn't fit? I don't know. I do know that if the bezels were larger I wouldn't be interested. If it were thicker, same thing.
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Whatever those sensors were originally intended for, they have been used in the best phone cameras for some time now. Samsung started using sensors like that in 2013 and Nokia, really the inventor of the modern high quality phone camera, started doing it in 2007. So Essential knew what they were doing (or not doing as the case may be).
I agree that there are trade offs with design. But Essential didn't say: in order to have a perfectly flat back we decided not to use the state of the art sensors found in other top phone cameras and do something that we think is good enough for standard users. Instead they went out of their way to promote the camera as what would be one of the stand out features of the phone. The even specifically hyped how great it's low light peformance would be. But anyone who knew the sensors they were using (without OIS) could have predicted it would not be as good as they claimed. In fact, the Xiaomi Mi 5s Plus tried the exact same configuration a year before, two IMX258 sensors, one RGB the other Monochrome, with no OIS, and that camera had the exact same performance problems. So no one can say with a straight face that they didn't know what would happen.
Not only am I disappointed in the substandard performance of the camera in the Essential Phone (for a contemporary flagship), but I think Essential was totally dishonest in how they promoted this phone and apparently thought their stupid customers and reviewers wouldn't notice. Which also contradicts their claim they would be a different kind of consumer friendly company. To me, the whole clearly dishonest camera hyping episode reveals that Essential is a very different, not so nice, kind of company than they claimed and it makes me very skeptical of their claims about everything else in the phone and that they plan to do.
So I think the way things unfolded is a little different than simply Essential decided to make a design trade off.
Also, Essential has made an awful lot of design trade offs. No 3.5 mm jack. No stereo speakers. No water proofing. No sd card. And now a subpar camera. At some point it's not worth it. I was willing to live with those other things, even though I was not excited about them (especially the 3.5 mm jack). But at least the features that are there should live up to the quality the phone claims to have and the camera just does not come close.
Lastly, I really don't get it, the obsession with the perfectly flat back. The great thing about the Esssential design is the front; it's the bezeless screen and fitting a relatively large screen in a phone much smaller than usual. Secondarly the titanium and ceramic are nice touches. But who gives sh.. about the perfectly flat back? Seriously. I don't think this would have affected anyone's perception of the phone. It would have taken a very minor hump to get an IMX378 in there and without the two sensors taking up more space, they could have had OIS. It also would have fit the Essential branding. They could have said: "We are not jumping on the dual camera gimmick band wagon (since dual cameras pretty much are a gimmick, all the different ways it's done). Large sensors and OIS are what makes cameras good. So that's what we're doing. Just the 'essential' things."
In the end, the flat back just seems like a misguided obsession of Rubin himself in his desire to make his fantasy personal perfect phone.
Sounds like the phone isn't for you lol. Quite the post.
jerflash said:
I love the design of this phone but ya it does have tradeoffs for sure. Camera is one of them. They could have easily made the bottom bezel match the top like the S8 and put in a larger sensor for sure but decision was made to go for the super wow factor which is not necessarily a bad one in my eyes. That being said idk if i personally can "Downgrade" from the pixels camera...
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I doubt the design was by essential alone and instead their design choice limited by the display provided by Sharp who just released a similar phone.
Apart from the frustrating fact that you can't record video and that the ultra-wide lens isn't very wide, the colors and seem to be extremely off in the comparisons I've seen to the point that I don't know if it's solvable through a software update. Maybe fixing the distortion and the super low saturation through software will somewhat save it, I don't know. Heck, even Mi 9 has a clearly superior ultra-wide WITH recording. What do you think? Does anyone that has the phone have a different experience? I want to buy this phone, but at this point in my country it's about the same price as a S10+ (Exynos) and I'm struggling to make a decision.
I wish GCam mods come early to save this mess.
NightmareAndroid said:
Apart from the frustrating fact that you can't record video and that the ultra-wide lens isn't very wide, the colors and seem to be extremely off in the comparisons I've seen to the point that I don't know if it's solvable through a software update. Maybe fixing the distortion and the super low saturation through software will somewhat save it, I don't know. Heck, even Mi 9 has a clearly superior ultra-wide WITH recording. What do you think? Does anyone that has the phone have a different experience? I want to buy this phone, but at this point in my country it's about the same price as a S10+ (Exynos) and I'm struggling to make a decision.
I wish GCam mods come early to save this mess.
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I cannot answer specifically to the 7 Pro, but I can tell you that the colour science is off on my now-sold Galaxy S10 Plus Exynos version. Switching between the main lens and the wide angle lens in the same exact lighting and spot yields different colour reproduction. It might be down to the actual lens used in junction with the software, but I can safety say that this problem isn't exclusive to the 7 Pro if anything.
Also, don't buy the Exynos version of the S10. It has garbage battery life, and has different camera lenses to the SD version that have shown to be inferior to the SD version.
There is a setting in the camera called "Ultra Wide Lens Correction." I wonder if testers are switching this setting to see if this is the issue. I just got mine, but it's night time right now so I will need some time to test (but I only have the LG G7 ThinQ to compare to.)
AhsanU said:
I cannot answer specifically to the 7 Pro, but I can tell you that the colour science is off on my now-sold Galaxy S10 Plus Exynos version. Switching between the main lens and the wide angle lens in the same exact lighting and spot yields different colour reproduction. It might be down to the actual lens used in junction with the software, but I can safety say that this problem isn't exclusive to the 7 Pro if anything.
Also, don't buy the Exynos version of the S10. It has garbage battery life, and has different camera lenses to the SD version that have shown to be inferior to the SD version.
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Yes, but at least every other wide angle camera in the market gives decent results. 7 Pro's results are very undersaturated, very soft and sometimes seem like out of focus.
I know about the S10+. If it was a Snapdragon version I would have already bought it.
matistight said:
There is a setting in the camera called "Ultra Wide Lens Correction." I wonder if testers are switching this setting to see if this is the issue. I just got mine, but it's night time right now so I will need some time to test (but I only have the LG G7 ThinQ to compare to.)
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Great! Post some samples when you can. I'm not that worried about the lens correction, I don't mind the distortion. My problem is mainly the saturation and softness of detail. If you can, post original results + "corrected" versions using Snapseed/Photoshop to check if some post-processing saves the day at least. Thank you in advance!
NightmareAndroid said:
Yes, but at least every other wide angle camera in the market gives decent results. 7 Pro's results are very undersaturated, very soft and sometimes seem like out of focus.
I know about the S10+. If it was a Snapdragon version I would have already bought it.
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Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.
AhsanU said:
Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.
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That's what I hope!
AhsanU said:
Beauty of OnePlus and this wonderful community is the fact that there'll be GCam for it very soon, and we'll undoubtedly be able to take amazing shots through GCam using the wide angle lens.
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It really depends. It might not be fixable with gcam.
The main camera uses a pretty good sensor. But it is a different sensor for the wide angle lens. So the quality of the wide angle shots will heavily depend on the quality of the sensor they use for their wide angle lens. It might be a weak sensor, we don't know right now. Huawei uses 4 Sony sensors for example, their wide angle pictures are pretty good. And yes, the best hardware is useless without a good software. But the best software also can't fix a bad sensor.
Not saying that it is a bad sensor, it's just that we don't know by now. We might have to wait for a teardown and some talented devs to see what is inside and if it is fixable.
I can only link you the specs from dxomark:
Primary: 48Mp Sony IMX586 sensor (12Mp output size), 26mm-equivalent lens with f/1.6 aperture and OIS
Ultra-wide: 16Mp sensor, 17mm-equivalent lens with f/2.2 aperture
Telephoto: 8Mp sensor, 78mm-equivalent lens with f/2.4 aperture and OIS