Well Folks,
So I've been using this OS now for 2 full months and by full I mean I have spent most of my free time learning about it and as much as I find this OS exciting and I believe this is where computing is really at now, I thought I'd share some thoughts on its irritants and get your feedback and opinions about it, so that it could be improved upon in future iterations.
I would like to mention that I have been using computers since the days of punched cards back in the 70s and that I'm no stranger to writing programs, although I am not a computing or IT professional and have only dabbled working on a few programs and scripts only to the extent of doing what was necessary for my work.
That being said, here's some of what I think of this OS, its strengths and weaknesses, its bugs (some, most probably from Google, would insist they are features - more on this later) and its successes. I hope that by posting this others will add their comments, rants and raves as well.
To moderators, if this has already been discussed or of this should be moved to another forum or in any way wish to criticize it, feel free to do so.
***
As much as I was a Microsoft fan during the 90s, this OS sold me as the only one where freedom to innovate and a large community of enthusiasts seem to thrive, whereas Microsoft has become sclerotic and is now under control of corporate culture and thinking, in other words, it's lost its soul and is just running on inertia. I'll stop here so as not to insult the grays who have taken control of it and think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
The open source / free software (lets not get into semantics, please!) sure has fostered a lot of friendly development and sharing and this is definitely the way of the future, notwithstanding what corporate America believes. History has proven that small entities have always been the most productive in society, and it shows in real life and especially here: Although Google, who is the de-facto giant in control of the platform, officially frowns on user control and participation into the OS, it actually benefits from it and doesn't interfere too much with its evolution and as far as I can see, has actually embraced quite a few innovations that we've seen coming to life here and on other forums.
In other words, they don't like it when developers modify it, but are happy to benefit from it in the end, except perhaps those innovations that give more control to users that they wish users should have, but at least and contrarily to Apple and Microsoft, they are not persecuting those who innovate. God knows we already have way too much of that military-style control in our society where major corporations and their lawyers dictate pretty much what citizens can and cannot do.
As much as this OS is promising with its fundamental openness (at least at its roots) and is the least oppressive of them all, there is still a lot to do, or should I say, a lot of restrictions to lift and doors to open to make it a truly open and free platform for software development, and this goes straight back to Google and its overbearing influence on the development of this OS. But I guess we have had to sacrifice some freedom in order to get some support from this corporate giant; so here are some things that, over the past two months experience with the platform, I find severely lacking and in dire need of rethinking:
- Google's overbearing attitude and control over users, especially personified in the Play Store, where one cannot comment freely anymore and the use of which has been aggravating to no end and THE cause of crashes and dysfunction of the device: It only works some times and is so ingrained in the OS that when it misbehaves, you often have to no choice but to reinitialize the OS (aka the 'cold boot'), which, of course, causes havoc with your data and personal settings, which brings me to my next issue:
- The File System: Where is my stuff stored and why is it so difficult to find it and save it? You'd think it's a crime to save your own data! What gives? Why is it so difficult for apps or user settings to be saved in a location chosen by the user? Just try this: of all you apps, how many of them can you access the data from outside of the application and keep safe for the next time when your phone needs to be reinitialized?
- Connection to external devices: We all agree that connection is king and the key to efficient use of portable devices. Can someone explain to me then why does Android make is so difficult to access and transfer files between LOCAL DEVICES such as USB drives and computers and why it must hide some parts of itself and makes every effort to hide user data and keep it out of reach from its owner?
- The Cloud Fad: why is it that Google insists so much on taking over my Data? Why is it not telling me where it is stored and why is it hiding it from me? Knowing how Google manipulates and basically snoops in on everything you do (it's been proven), why would anyone in their right mind trust to have their stuff stored out of their reach when external hard drive so cheap it's almost free? Can someone explain what the advantage is to me, especially when wireless connections are precarious at best and data transport costs more and more? You find that 'convenient'?
- Background Data: Can someone tell me why my device needs to transport SO MUCH stuff in the background and why it needs to do so when it can operate quite happily otherwise when it notices that there isn't a data connection available? Doesn't Google realize that Wireless Data is horrendously expensive? Why can I not, as a user, control what data is sent back in the background in a granular way instead of having to shut it down at system level? Is Google afraid what users might find out about what information is sent to their servers without their explicit knowledge? Which brings me finally to
- Permissions: Why is it so difficult for users to control application permissions? Just like licenses, we only have the choice to 'take it or leave it', without any true knowledge what we sold the devil. Permissions are pernicious and should be under total control of the user. Those developers who need those permissions should explain them all and make it possible for users to deactivate them all so that users could see if the reduced functionality is worth it or not. LET USERS DECIDES WHAT GOES ON THEIR DEVICE!
***
So that's it for my Saturday afternoon rant. Like I said, these things have irritated me for a long time. If you have objections, comments or accolades and additions, here's the place to do so, unless of course the moderators decide otherwise: if this has been discussed somewhere else and I've bothered you with this post, by all means let me know.
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that is the beauty of Android
Mattix724 said:
User data is stored in the /data partition. Apps can be found in /data/app and app data is found in /data/data
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Click to collapse
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Mattix724 said:
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Mattix724 said:
You can control an apps permissions, again with an app that needs root access. Found on the Play Store.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
***
In any case, I thank you for pointing out the practical solutions and workarounds and for getting the ball rolling, so to speak; but my point was more philosophical: WHY should we have to essentially "fight system" with these workarounds to do such straightforward things as as saving documents in a place of the user's choosing, being able to transfer files directly to his PC and being able to keep user privacy?
doesn't that bother anyone?
Shouldn't Android become more open and accessible as a platform that truly empowers its users and leave Apple and Microsoft to cater to those who couldn't be bothered?
Looking forward to your answers!
I sware people will complain nomatter what
Sent by Hellybelly 4.2.2
Disabling Background Data Completely?
Mattix724 said:
All of this that you mention can be done. Not necessarily from pure vanilla AOSP Android. But you can do all of this with the power of custom ROMs such as CyanogenMod.
You can disable background data using an app that needs root access. There are many available on the Play Store.
Sent from my Slim E4GT using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Old faithful said:
OK, so I have looked very extensively, spending hours searching for a way to disable background data and although they are many ways to do so when on cellular data, short of shutting off WiFi altogether, I have not found any discussion, much less a way to do so completely when on WiFi.
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
So the question remains: short of shutting off data altogether, how can I disable background data completely?
Wouldn't it be possible to either fake a connection so as to fool the system into thinking there is a connection for its hidden background processes, or to wake a connection up on demand when initiating querries and put it to sleep immediately after the answer has arrived?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
zelendel said:
A simple data firewall program will take care of that. It will allow you to control what and when things get a data connection.
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Click to collapse
Hmmm... I'm using Avast and its firewall doesn't have the option to turn off background data on Wi-Fi, it's either turn off Wi-Fi or not, no option to just turn off background data and leave access to foreground data. I've tried a few other apps that don't have this option either; it's all or nothing.
Do you know of any apps that have that granular choice? Could you suggest a few?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Old faithful said:
...
One of my concerns is to know WHY background data is even required, because shutting off all data connections certainly does not prevent my apps from working , even those that do require data such as weather, email and news. I just want to be able to fetch the data I need and have total control over what I broadcast, especially what goes on in the background without my explicit knowledge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
edscholl said:
what sort of background data do you want to disable? regarding weather, email, and news, turn off auto sync (disable it all, or by program).
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Click to collapse
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 2
Count your blessings!
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access, but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Old faithful said:
Precisely ... WHAT sort of background data needs to go on anyway?
Fetching the weather info takes up a few tens of KB. What then does it need to transfer megabytes in the background for then? My wife's weather widget in particular has used over 200 MB over the past month in background data whereas it has only needed a couple of megs to update itself! Doesn't that seem exaggerated?
My point is, what is background data needed for when these apps work perfectly well on demand with a tiny fraction of the bandwidth? Why is there no disclosure what exactly it is used for, if shutting data off when not in use has absolutely no detrimental effect on the function of the app, in other words, what's really going on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Background Data Implications
edscholl said:
So shut sync off if you prefer. I like my apps up to date when I wake my phone, but nobody is going to force you to keep sync on. This is such a non-issue.
As for weather, I guess it depends what app she's using. Looks like my weather widget used less than 1mb of data in the last month...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
To turn off background data go to settings, select Data Usage, press menu button and the check the restrict background data check box.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
You can go even further and customize each apps background data usage from the same screen.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Sorry, just saw where you were talking about background data via WiFi....:banghead:
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
Old faithful said:
On my device, with sync off, background data off, I still get 119 KB foreground, 2.33 MB in the background for the past week, on WiFi, whcih I already turn off most of the time, because it's the only way I have found so far to stop the data leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may be a non issue for folks who have gigabytes of bandwidth a month and don't pay $50 per megabyte off contract like we do or $10 for 100MB, but my concern is deeper than that: what's happening in the background? Why do YOU implicitly trust what's happening in the background without full disclosure?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Old faithful said:
Also, regarding the voracity of Android for data, when I was on windows mobile with push email on a four hour basis, I used to use no more than a few MB per month, and that was with cellular data on at all times and I'd hardly use more than 50MB per month browsing on wap sites which did a great job of cutting out the non-content garbage that is so prevalent on regular 'full' sites these days.
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Click to collapse
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
Old faithful said:
I understand this may seem like a non-issue to those for whom data is plentiful and cheap, and that most of you implicitly trust what apps do with your data in the background, but to find this being dismissed is deeply worrisome to me: why SHOULD we trust Google and others corporations with our personal information, without even as much as a look at what's being transferred and for what reason? Doesn't that disturb anyone at all???
In any case, thank you for answering and keeping the debate open, so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Konvey said:
I agree with you to some extent. Of course, you can do anything with root access
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Click to collapse
If you can direct me to an app that allows me to COMPLETELY shut off background data for all apps including the OS, for any type of connection, incuding WiFi, I wouldn't be so concerned, but I have looked for the past two months now and found nothing so far that does that, even the acclaimed Droidwall can't turn background data off, even when everything is turned off, meaning, NO data access whatsoever: the bloody "OS Services" still happily does its thing in the backrground, and there is no way to find out what it does (I tried tPacketCapture - I only get 24 byte long files that I can't read anything out of)
Since it would seem that the problem is deep within the operating system, it would seem that the only way to completely shut off background data would be to give a local host redirect for every BACKGROUND process, such as what is possible in Windows using a 127.0.0.1 riderect. Since I'm a newbie when it comes to Android I don't know how to do it, but surely there must be a way, or a way to connect to WiFi only on demand?
Konvey said:
but why isn't this right here in front of me out of the box. With my Galaxy S III, managing the file system is a pain, and considering my USB Sync cable doesn't work long enough to make file transfers of 100MB+, this is a real problem. I don't want everything in the cloud, I want it here. I don't have internet (fast data speeds, at the least) everywhere. I would hope that Android advances with these features. I also wish there was a way, out of the box with skinned (by carrier or manufacturer) devices that you could disable all skins and themes and use the glorious Stock Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I am still looking for a file explorer with the functionality of my old Norton File Manager (remember that one?). I can't understand why the so-called 'expert' ones such as Root Explorer don't have accessible sorting features (why hide it in settings? Isn't that a basic, essential feature of any file management system to be able to sort based on these common criteria?).
Furthermore, I'd love nothing more than being able to swipe left from the home screen directly into the file system for direct access to shortcuts, packages and data, and to be able to specify where the OS shoudl store MY data (instead of keeping it hidden as is most often the case).
Konvey said:
Seriously though, count your blessings, at least you're not using iOS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more, I'll never have an Apple product in my house, no need to say more, we all know about Apple's control of its users and tyrannical ways. George Orwell had it mostly right, but where he failed is where Big Brother would come from: Not the government. Or perhaps we should say that Major Corporations, through the power of their lobbies, have indeed become the de-facto Government .
Thanks again for your answer, Ed.
edscholl said:
So what apps are using data? Why don't you turn off background data if you care? Heck, turn off WiFi and mobile networks when thou don't want to sync if you're worried about leakage.
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Click to collapse
Shutting WiFi off after use is what I've been doing of late, but it's an uphill battle. The minute I turn WiFi back on, the OS, like a ravenous dog, immediately gets into background data mode, trumping the foreground querries by volume. But it's a start
edscholl said:
You implicitly trust apps with some data access when you install it, with the specific access given to you. If you think otherwise, your fooling yourself. I'm not sure why foreground vs background data makes much difference to you once you've trusted the app with data access anyway- it's not like it tells you how much data it's going to use per network transaction if you manually tell it to update...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
edscholl said:
50mb a month... I'm not sure I'd bother with a smartphone if I used data so little.
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Click to collapse
To each his own, Ed. When data costs $10 for 100MB and the most you can get is 1GB for $60 (or as low as $30 on promo), you quickly come to your senses. That's, of course, another issue altogether.
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
edscholl said:
We trust them because it makes our lives simpler, and quite frankly, most of us really aren't doing anything all that interesting with our data and Google and others really aren't interested in your personal info (not to be mistaken for an assertion that they're not interested in serving up ads relevant to you). But there's certainly a tradeoff. If you're not comfortable with it, turn it all off, or don't use a smartphone - nobody will hold it against thou.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Old faithful said:
Yes, but to see the data exchange so lopsided (most of it being background) is what makes me wonder what it really does. Perhaps it can be trusted but what bothers me is these apps don't tell you what they really do 'for you' in background mode and why they need so much bandwidth... I mean, how much data is required to transmit temperatures, weather conditions and the such? Heck any update would surely fit in a sub KB transmission even for 3 or 4 cities like I have in my setup...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and as I said, my weather widget uses (beautiful widgets) like 1mb a month. On my phone, the HTC sense widget uses like 5mb.
So if your weather app - again, what apps, specifically, are you having issues with? - is using hundreds of MBS, maybe it's doing a lot more (like live radar or videos), or maybe it's just crap and you should uninstall it.
Old faithful said:
Fact is, apart from media such as youtube and other streaming sites, text based information (or information update using apps that are supposed to have built in presentation such as snow fluries for "snow") should require very little data, typically 1KB per full size page. You have to admit that something is wrong with this picture that when I read a 500 word article it requires the same amount of bandwidth as the contents of a whole book!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are tilting at windmills. The average page size is pushing 1.5mb, and was more than 1k back in the Netscape beta days (15k average ~1995).
It's not uncommon for a http HEADER to be bigger than 1k.
Old faithful said:
They do make our lives simpler and there is a trade-off, agreed. The point I make is where the line should be crossed. Are we willing to get shoved with 99% non content garbage in order to access the remaining 1% meaningful content? Because that is certainly the going rate for full websites such as cnet, tech republic and others, and when looking at background data on Android, at least from my perspective. I was online back in 1993 when the www started (before on Co$tly Compuserve) and with the limited technology we had at the time we could get access to more meaningful content faster than we can now, and with very, very limited bandwidth!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your looking at the past through rose colored glasses if you remember more meaningful content being available in 1993. In mid 1993, there were 130 webpages, total. End of 1993, around 1000. End of 1994, around 10000. And a lot of them were useless crap that students were putting up (I know, I was one of them).
Old faithful said:
Ok, ok, enough of the oldtimer rant Maybe you are right and I'm just an old fool. But I'd rather be considered an old fool for asking stupid questions than to accept it all without any question
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not about accepting it without question. It's mainly you haven't given much specifics, so the only general answer is, well, it's for convenience, so turn off your data if you're worried. The details you did give - email and weather - it's very clear why they would use background data.
---------- Post added at 12:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------
Regarding your other points:
Old faithful said:
Great to know! But you must admit that having to ask, or more precisely not being told where it is, is disturbing! Because what is more important than your data? WHY does it have to be so difficult to get to it? Why the secrecy? Don't users deserve to know where their files are and be able to select where to store them? Why am I not AUTOMATICALLY given the CHOICE as to its name and its location on my device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That you didn't know where it was doesn't mean it is hidden or a secret; guidelines are published and clear, and apps generally follow them. You're not given a choice in name and location for simplicity.
Old faithful said:
True, but why is such an essential function NOT part of the OS and what more, why does it require the user to VIOLATE his warranty (by rooting) to do so? Don't you see what's WRONG with this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly claimed, but rooting does not void your warranty. Problems you cause by rooting will do not need to be honored by the warranty.
Old faithful said:
Again, I understand; but doing so often breaks the apps. WHY do we need these permissions IMPOSED upon us in the first place? Doesn't it strike you as WRONG that so many apps need to access your most private information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No app imposes anything on you - apps require the permissions they do and they're spelled out before you install. Don't install apps that required permissions thou don't like.
Old faithful said:
And coming back to the Google Play Store: I've used my device for two months and had to wipe it clean TWICE already and EVERY TIME because the Play Store refused to work anymore! Don't you think there's something wrong with this picture? Doesn't it hint at some homeland-security-esque infiltration deep into the OS from the part of Google?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like your phone is broken. Get a replacement under warranty.
I normally take things with a grain of salt that I read on the ol' interweb, however I came across this article on Android Authority (which site I consider somewhat reliable) and it got me to wondering if the information could be true and factual. The article I'm talking about is:
http://www.androidauthority.com/battery-myths-688089/
A couple of sections have me really re-thinking my battery saving tactics. Such as this excerpt:
Myth: Save battery power by killing apps or using an app killer
Aaaaagghh! Stop it! Stop doing it; stop spreading this lie. App killers and their proponents are the homeopathy and anti-vaxxers of the Android world: they don’t actually help and they can possibly make things worse.
There was a stretch of a few months back in, like, 2009 when app killers actually made Android run smoother. Then Android got a lot smarter about how it managed its resources, and all app killers do is suck up the resources they are claiming to protect. They became unnecessary before they even got popular.
Even if you’re just haphazardly murdering apps that seem to be running in the background by force stopping them or swiping them out of the Recent Apps menu, you’re often draining more battery than you’re saving. For one thing, a lot of apps spring right back to life after you kill them, meaning you just spent more resources than if you just left it alone. For another, the biggest battery sucker across the board is your display. If you’re spending screen time, not to mention seconds of your finite human life, needlessly assassinating apps, then you’re playing a game of whack-a-mole that is only wasting your time and your smartphone’s battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now if the above is true, then I'm wasting time and battery juice using Greenify. Anyone care to ring in on this one??
And then there is this section that has me wondering...
Myth: Disabling services like Bluetooth and Location Services drastically improves battery life
This is another one of those rumors that is still sticking around because it actually used to be good advice. Wi-fi and Bluetooth used to latch onto your smartphone’s battery life like a vampire bat, but today they’re nowhere near so bloodthirsty. And location services are even leaner.
It’s true that disabling all these or going into airplane mode will save some battery life. However, we’re talking a very tiny sliver – like half an hour over the span of an entire day, so the gains are arguably not worth the trouble. Leave the services that you use on the regular running all you want. Your device is designed to handle it.
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Click to collapse
And so, I come to you members with more experience than I, and ask for your input. Not so much asking for your opinion, but rather for your experience in the references above.
1. I've never used greenify and my SOT ranges from 4-6 hours, depending on rom and usage. I don't kill my apps also. Most of them are running in the background.
2. WiFi location scanning is always on. Bluetooth scanning is off. When I tried switching off wifi scanning, my phone used more juice to locate it's position via GPS.
In the (small) amount of time I spent within the Android community, I gathered that it's just better as is, as Android advances . I just leave the system on stock settings and I don't use any third party App freezer/ optimizer/ hibernator/ killler.
Alright then... Thanks much for the input and for sharing your experiences.
I think I'll freeze Greenify for now, and see how it goes.
Once upon a time, apps such as Greenify were quite useful. Background services and apps would run rampant doing whatever they liked. It was more or less the wild west when it came to things like that.
But starting with Marshmallow, Android really started cracking down on this kind of behavior and began providing the OS and developers with APIs to better manage background activity. With the addition of Doze in Nougat, I would argue that apps such as Greenify are now more or less obsolete.
If anything, a wakelock blocker may still come in handy (especially when dealing with Google Play Services), but some (most?) custom ROMs have modded Doze to remove the built-in exception that it has for Play Services, so even a wakelock blocker is unnecessary.
Remove everything related to Google. Profit.
Fatsodonkey said:
Remove everything related to Google. Profit.
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Click to collapse
So,you mean remove GMS? Ah,sorry,no.I'd rather use a magisk module to force doze gms if it's draining battery.
Mr.Ak said:
So,you mean remove GMS? Ah,sorry,no.I'd rather use a magisk module to force doze gms if it's draining battery.
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Click to collapse
I prefer the "Destroy Google" way.
Fatsodonkey said:
I prefer the "Destroy Google" way.
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Click to collapse
If you hate google so much(for whatever reason),why not stop using android then?
Mr.Ak said:
If you hate google so much(for whatever reason),why not stop using android then?
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Click to collapse
I don't hate Google. I don't hate companies, but i believe that sometimes companies grow too big and have too much power.
I just hope that in the mobile space there will be a proper GNU/Linux phone.
With desktops things are quite nice nowadays.
Just watched the last 3 weeks of Click off the BBC. On one episode they were on about battery saving apps. Turns out the best one was the built in android battery saver. No app needed.
I was an iPhone user for years before I switched to note 20 ultra couple of months back.
One thing I can't understand is how slow apps install on note 20 ultra. While updating, first of all it only does lands one app at a time. Whereas iPhone could download three apps at a time. Once downloaded, it takes forever to install new app or update.
It feels slower than my iPhone 7 which I used the last.
Any settings that I need to check? Or is this a known thing in android?
enjoylife1788 said:
I was an iPhone user for years before I switched to note 20 ultra couple of months back.
One thing I can't understand is how slow apps install on note 20 ultra. While updating, first of all it only does lands one app at a time. Whereas iPhone could download three apps at a time. Once downloaded, it takes forever to install new app or update.
It feels slower than my iPhone 7 which I used the last.
Any settings that I need to check? Or is this a known thing in android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had mi 10 pro before note 20 ultra
Installing apps way so fast
It is so slow with Samsung and both has same cpu
What do you think could be the reason for this? I don't see many results when tried searching for it. Its terribly slow.
rowihel2012 said:
I had mi 10 pro before note 20 ultra
Installing apps way so fast
It is so slow with Samsung and both has same cpu
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same OS on both?
A small apk should install lightning fast.
Try installing the same app on both iOS and android. iOS will install very quickly where as note 20 ultra is painfully slow.
So I read a few posts and it has been like this since 3-4 years. As per the posts, it happens only with samsung devices. No clue why.
enjoylife1788 said:
Try installing the same app on both iOS and android. iOS will install very quickly where as note 20 ultra is painfully slow.
So I read a few posts and it has been like this since 3-4 years. As per the posts, it happens only with samsung devices. No clue why.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, thanks. It helped me.
I store apks with ApkExport; no internet or Playstore delay when this pathway is used. I use it for reloads.
Almost all apks install very fast... as they should.
Enable enhance processing.
eddyo1993 said:
Enable enhance processing.
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Click to collapse
With that everything works super fast except for installing apps. Doesn't solve the purpose. Thanks for the suggestion.
enjoylife1788 said:
With that everything works super fast except for installing apps. Doesn't solve the purpose. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to Adroid, the Dark Side of mobile handsets:laugh:
When you say slow, how slow?
Normally a small apk loads in a second or two.
See what happens if you do a direct install of an apk from the phone, you know for scientific purposes.
Since I'm running on Pie, there's no scope storage.
Could this be a factor?
I would think it wouldn't slow install just usage of some apps like office ones but maybe there's something I'm missing.
enjoylife1788 said:
With that everything works super fast except for installing apps. Doesn't solve the purpose. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I don't have the same issue you do yet I have the same phone.
eddyo1993 said:
Enable enhance processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but where do you find that setting to be activating?
Thanks
Nastrahl said:
Sorry but where do you find that setting to be activating?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
High performance battery mode on some Samsung phones or enhanced processing on others
Nastrahl said:
Sorry but where do you find that setting to be activating?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may find it under your notification panel. May drain your battery faster.
It sounds more like there's an issue with a apk used during installs rather than hardware performance issue. These devices are fast unless in their maximum battery saving mode.
Make sure no antivirus anything is running... or 3rd party power management, apk killers etc (destroyer of worlds).
Find those apks used during installs and their dependencies, clear data.
Clear the system cache.
Most small 1-10 mb apps should install in 1 or 2 seconds.
If they're all taking 20+ seconds to install some critical apk is disabled, corrupted, or needs updated.
Or perhaps a update to a system apk screwed things up; go back to the factory load.
And last the firmware load could be potentially corrupted.
blackhawk said:
Welcome to Adroid, the Dark Side of mobile handsets:laugh:
When you say slow, how slow?
Normally a small apk loads in a second or two.
See what happens if you do a direct install of an apk from the phone, you know for scientific purposes.
Since I'm running on Pie, there's no scope storage.
Could this be a factor?
I would think it wouldn't slow install just usage of some apps like office ones but maybe there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Slow as in it downloads in a zippy and then it sits on installing app for a while. So an app around 80-90 mb would take 20-30 seconds to install.
And when I try to update my apps, few of them together, then it takes a very long time to install them.
blackhawk said:
It sounds more like there's an issue with a apk used during installs rather than hardware performance issue. These devices are fast unless in their maximum battery saving mode.
Make sure no antivirus anything is running... or 3rd party power management, apk killers etc (destroyer of worlds).
Find those apks used during installs and their dependencies, clear data.
Clear the system cache.
Most small 1-10 mb apps should install in 1 or 2 seconds.
If they're all taking 20+ seconds to install some critical apk is disabled, corrupted, or needs updated.
Or perhaps a update to a system apk screwed things up; go back to the factory load.
And last the firmware load could be potentially corrupted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have had this issue with all the apps. May be we try one app which installs really fast on your phone and I give it a shot and see how long it takes.
enjoylife1788 said:
I have had this issue with all the apps. May be we try one app which installs really fast on your phone and I give it a shot and see how long it takes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isolate the cause by installing the apk directly from a saved copy of a small apk.
If it installs fast than it's a Playstore and/or connectivity issue, lol, imagine that:laugh:
Large apps like an Office app can sometimes take longer, this is normal. A poorly written one may hang for a bit but still load.
For me to load all my 3rd party apps and system updates(few) from the SD card during a reload takes under 20 minutes maybe less. Never timed it but most didn't try my patience... and I hate waiting.
On my side i noticed that's as longer as i install more and more apps.
Nastrahl said:
On my side i noticed that's as longer as i install more and more apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never have seen that type behavior for direct installs.
Playstore on the otherhand does have bandwidth issues sometimes even for one app but that's during download.
Was it doing this after a reload with a fresh OS?
I noticed that something has been using too much cpu, because sometimes i'm using an app and it suddenly minimizes, but it doesn't close completely, it happens on videos and stuff, and it's kinda annoying, so i wanna know if i can see which apps are using how much cpu to solve my problem, any ideas?
Indirectly with a battery tracking that shows system apk usage.
Google doesn't want us to see the truth.
Many times it's a Google system apk doing it too.
blackhawk said:
Indirectly with a battery tracking that shows system apk usage.
Google doesn't want us to see the truth.
Many times it's a Google system apk doing it too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, there isn't a way to see it exactly? I mean, i guess it can be done with root, but i am non-root, and i wouldn't root my device just for something that i will use one time
xDIEGOSHOOTEDx said:
So, there isn't a way to see it exactly? I mean, i guess it can be done with root, but i am non-root, and i wouldn't root my device just for something that i will use one time
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Click to collapse
Nope. Not rooted either.
After having countless great tools available with XPx64 and W7, Android is like a barren desert.
Troubleshooting a newer Android is now like playing wackamole.
Accubattery has a useful discharge current overlay feature... works with Pie not sure about Q.
When streaming vids on the browser higher usage spikes are normal. On all my apps this uses the most battery. All my browsers use about the same amount of cpu cycles/power when viewing vids.
You need something like a Task Manager on Windows.
James_Watson said:
You need something like a Task Manager on Windows.
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Click to collapse
Yes, but since i haven't found one, i doubt it's possible
xDIEGOSHOOTEDx said:
I noticed that something has been using too much cpu, because sometimes i'm using an app and it suddenly minimizes, but it doesn't close completely, it happens on videos and stuff, and it's kinda annoying, so i wanna know if i can see which apps are using how much cpu to solve my problem, any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gsam battery monitor app also tracks app usage
xDIEGOSHOOTEDx said:
Yes, but since i haven't found one, i doubt it's possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No such thing unless you use abd to enable the required permissions.
blackhawk said:
No such thing unless you use abd to enable the required permissions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, i forgot, adb is by pc conection, isn't it?
xDIEGOSHOOTEDx said:
Sorry, i forgot, adb is by pc conection, isn't it?
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Click to collapse
Yes. Never used it but probably should to be able to access the advanced features in some of the apps. DevChek is one.
Karma Firewall uses almost no battery, it's a VNP freeware app that works great.
Let's you see what's hogging the bandwidth/battery and lock them down as needed. Best firewall I've ever used; it's always running now.
Hello everyone,
I'm new here so not sure did I hit the right section (sorry if its wrong).
By the normal use my battery last around 24hr but recently I had some issues with the battery drainage so to speak in like 2-3 hr it would just dry out and I have to recharge.
That lasted for like a week and then suddenly it stopped and it return to normal lasting 24hr on a full charge.
My question is was that a fluke or should I replace the battery?
Thanks,
Sam
Batteries don't die and get resurrected.
An apk(s) was the cause.
If it happens again track down the offender(s).
blackhawk said:
Batteries don't die and get resurrected.
An apk(s) was the cause.
If it happens again track down the offender(s).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi blackhawk, thank you for the replay I was tracking with Advanced task manager app and all the apps that run right now they are aps that run on my phone regularly. There was no changes (I didn't install/remove any app in few months). That is the reason for my odd question so to speak.
samcoon62 said:
Hi blackhawk, thank you for the replay I was tracking with Advanced task manager app and all the apps that run right now they are aps that run on my phone regularly. There was no changes (I didn't install/remove any app in few months). That is the reason for my odd question so to speak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try using Galaxy Labs Battery Tracker.
Sometimes Google apks will show battery usage as other Google or Android apks because of related dependencies even if the apk is disabled.
Google Backup Transport, Framework and Google Play Services are prime suspects. Clearing the data of these apks will many times stop excess battery usage. Gmaps is another one that will run in the background. Brave browser too.
Close apps when done with them especially before you go to bed.
Wifi if enable as well. Something did it...
Karma Firewall is very useful in spotting troublemakers and for locking down those apks.
It's freeware, ad free and uses almost no battery.
Has logging that makes seeing excessive internet usage easy.
Works best with Pie or early OSs.
blackhawk said:
Try using Galaxy Labs Battery Tracker.
Sometimes Google apks will show battery usage as other Google or Android apks because of related dependencies even if the apk is disabled.
Google Backup Transport, Framework and Google Play Services are prime suspects. Clearing the data of these apks will many times stop excess battery usage. Gmaps is another one that will run in the background. Brave browser too.
Close apps when done with them especially before you go to bed.
Wifi if enable as well. Something did it...
Karma Firewall is very useful in spotting troublemakers and for locking down those apks.
It's freeware, ad free and uses almost no battery.
Has logging that makes seeing excessive internet usage easy.
Works best with Pie or early OSs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry for the late replay, wow so much information's thank you so much blackhawk I will setup Galaxy Labs Battery Tracker and Karma.
My wifi is always on and always connected to home or office wife (mostly home nowadays as the corona forced us all to work from home if we can.
I appropriate your help so much was going crazy over here lol
Sammy's can be quit the pain. If you're running Pie or below you have far more tools to track down the offenders. Running Apps/cache in Developer options and cache apps in Samsung Device Care are two I use.
This package blocker is another favorite I always use. It can completely clear app caches leaving no nulls that "clearing" them in app settings sometimes leaves. Incomplete clearing means the problem can persist. It's a great troubleshooting and debloating tool if you use it wisely. Has a widget that allows you to toggle selected apks on/off too.
Home - Package Disabler
The only NON-root solution that let’s you disable any unwanted packages that come pre-installed / installed with your phone / tablet.
www.packagedisabler.com
I get you what you are saying but it's a bit uncharted waters for me. lol
As I'm use to computers wracking them up and setting them back up for last 30+ years (professionally). I was always repulsive toward mobile phones. As I like my privacy, piece will working, and when I go somwere no one to disturb me and know were exactly I'm lol.
When they first came out I didn't want to get one until 2004 and then I got my first one Nokia 3310 that is still working (just who knows how many batteries did I change), 2nd one was Note4 in 2016 (also still works and looks like new) and now Note9.
Android phones I got just for viber (registration mostly as i more use it on PC) and banking (from time to tiem) calling and rarely sending sms. Other than that I don't use phone much as I prefer to shoot pictures with my Sony Camera and to do everything else on my PC.
Because of that there was no much interest and room for a phone so I didnt play with developers modes and wracking phones up like I do with PC's lol.
PS: Only reason I'm into Notes is the pen (don't ask me why, I have no idea) lol
samcoon62 said:
I get you what you are saying but it's a bit uncharted waters for me. lol
As I'm use to computers wracking them up and setting them back up for last 30+ years (professionally). I was always repulsive toward mobile phones. As I like my privacy, piece will working, and when I go somwere no one to disturb me and know were exactly I'm lol.
When they first came out I didn't want to get one until 2004 and then I got my first one Nokia 3310 that is still working (just who knows how many batteries did I change), 2nd one was Note4 in 2016 (also still works and looks like new) and now Note9.
Android phones I got just for viber (registration mostly as i more use it on PC) and banking (from time to tiem) calling and rarely sending sms. Other than that I don't use phone much as I prefer to shoot pictures with my Sony Camera and to do everything else on my PC.
Because of that there was no much interest and room for a phone so I didnt play with developers modes and wracking phones up like I do with PC's lol.
PS: Only reason I'm into Notes is the pen (don't ask me why, I have no idea) lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use my 10+ like a PC. I rarely use my laptop and keep it completely off the internet.
The SD card is the data drive on my 10+. I can do a full reload from it with little or no internet; all critical data is store there including copies of all my apps. I load directly from the SD card, no Playstore needed. A full restore takes me about 2 hours now. The SD card is also backed up to 2 hdds just in case. Develope a complete restore plan for a forced reload. After that a reload is no issue.
They are very rare but they can happen especially if you run into a virus.
The only things I keep on the internal memory are the working apps, DCIM (with frequent backups to the SD card) and the download folder until the files can be vetted.
Androids are fun to play with. With a none rooted phone it's pretty hard to crash them. Lol, I've crashed and burned about 50 Window's loads playing in the Registry over the years. Cloned OS copies made that pretty painless.
I play with the 10+ a lot. It's a surprisingly stable and fast platform.
Lots of really good apps for it too. Most are free.
The 10+ replaced my TV as did the PC over 15 years ago. Pretty cool.
Gene Roddenberry would have gone nuts holding a 10+ in his hands. More than even he could have imagined.