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Help clarify about chargers

Hello guys, can anyone tell me if the current of a charger impacts on downtime of the phone(being charged)
Does 1200mAH charges faster than 700mAH?
Thanks in advance

elimix said:
Does 1200mAH charges faster than 700mAH?
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short answer yes
long answer, it's safe to charge using up to 2000 mAh (2 Amp) chargers, i'm using it on a daily basis
however faster chargers will produce more HEAT, and more HEAT usually reduces the life span of the battery faster according to science facts
in real life usage, you wont really notice a difference, because by the time if and when the battery does dies, you're probably already on a new phone
also replacement batteries are quite affordable, even legit ones runs for aprox $30, after market ones are just $2 ~ $5 average

How are you using these chargers? If you're talking about simply plugging your phone in via the USB socket then it makes no difference. The "charger" is in the phone. All you're doing is providing it with 5V and a heck of a lot more current than the phone actually needs or draws to charge the battery.

Fast charging? Is it safe?

First of all . Every night when I go to bed, I like to plug my phone in and charge it while I sleep.
6-7 hrs or so.
Is there a way to stop this fast charge feature , or turn it off. It's a cool addition, however I feel I'm doing more harm leaving it plugged in all night??
Could I just use my old blackberry charger block instead?

markdexter said:
First of all . Every night when I go to bed, I like to plug my phone in and charge it while I sleep.
6-7 hrs or so.
Is there a way to stop this fast charge feature , or turn it off. It's a cool addition, however I feel I'm doing more harm leaving it plugged in all night??
Could I just use my old blackberry charger block instead?
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Technically , yes you can use any charger you'd like. You don't have to stick with the fast charger. I will though , highlight that the fast charger is optimized for the S6 battery and the battery is optimized for it , so there is no harm in keeping the charger plugged in.

You can't damage the battery if you leave it on all night. All phones have special circuitry to stop charging once the battery is full.

Fast charge works by increasing the voltage, not the current. This is a much safer approach for increasing the power transfer from charger to phone. As it is primarily the amperage that increases thermal output etc.
Although the phone will get warm initially while charging, all phones will. But when the battery reaches full capacity, the battery circuit actually says "okie dokie. I've got what I need now. Let's just trickle charge to keep me full till my boss is ready" and hardly any power will flow through, and the temperature will drop.
Actually makes me wonder about setting up a temp/time monitor while charging to see exactly what happens and when now :3
But as others have said, both charger and battery are optimised for it, and it is plenty safe enough. It's what I do!
There is also nothing stopping you using any other (safe and preferably branded) 5v 1A charger. It will just charge slower. Much like what you are already used to. 3-4 hours instead of 1-1.5ish hours.

solitarymonkey said:
Fast charge works by increasing the voltage, not the current.
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Forgive me, I dropped my electrical engineering major, but when we're dealing with direct current, doesn't increasing the voltage by definition increase the current if the resistance doesn't change?
I used the Ampere app to compare the regular charger, from which the phone pulled around a half of an amp, with the fast charger, from which the phone pulled a full amp.

Sallyty said:
Battery life depends on the number of repeated charge and discharge, so should avoid charging the battery is more than power, it will shorten the battery life.
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I'm not really sure what you mean by " so should avoid charging the battery is more than power", but battery lifespan in lithium batteries is decreased by FULL discharges and recharges. The best possible routine for making lithium batteries last is to charge early and often. And as genetichazzard pointed out, there is circuitry included that stops the charging (or trickles it) once it reaches full charge.
"Rapid charging", in general, will cost you life in batteries, but that is usually in reference to 4A-6A rapid charging, where this new Samsung charger still does not exceed 2A. I trust their battery engineers. They've one of two things: they have either engineered the batteries and chargers to last in their first sealed body phone, or they are trying to screw us by making a battery/charging system that will force us to pay for a costly battery replacement. They won't stay in business much longer if they go the second route.

flu13 said:
Forgive me, I dropped my electrical engineering major, but when we're dealing with direct current, doesn't increasing the voltage by definition increase the current if the resistance doesn't change?
I used the Ampere app to compare the regular charger, from which the phone pulled around a half of an amp, with the fast charger, from which the phone pulled a full amp.
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I have no idea of the complexities in the technology, or how the phone itself deals with the current from the charger. But I looked at the fast charger that came with my s6 last night, and it is rated like this;
9V 1.67A
5V 2A
The 9V output provides a 15W of power, whereas the the 5V output provides 10W of power.
And after a little bit of reading (can't site my source now as I forgot the website), it is the current that generates heat in the components (such as wires).
So by upping the voltage, the charger is able to transfer more energy to the phone safer than if manufacturers continued to just increase the current.
There will be a smart switching method of some sort within the charger to go from the 5V circuit to the 9V circuit, with a slightly higher resistance to drop the current.
And before I ramble on without making much sense, that is what I have learnt
---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------
Sallyty said:
I think you are right,Maybe phones have special circuitry to stop charging once the battery is full.
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You are right. Chargers and rechargeable batteries as a whole have been getting "more intelligent" over recent years.
No idea exactly how they do it, I know that a lot of batteries have chips in the that monitor things such as charge capacity and its "health". So I am assuming that they have some form of circuit switch to a higher resistance circuit when the battery is full, so that only a very tiny current can flow, keeping the battery full, without killing it.

solitarymonkey said:
No idea exactly how they do it, I know that a lot of batteries have chips in the that monitor things such as charge capacity and its "health". So I am assuming that they have some form of circuit switch to a higher resistance circuit when the battery is full, so that only a very tiny current can flow, keeping the battery full, without killing it.
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Almost always, the circuit is built into the charging device, not the battery. In the case of phone batteries, the phone is the charging device.
Link to more than any non battery engineer needs to know about lithium-ion batteries and charging.

DevonSloan said:
Almost always, the circuit is built into the charging device, not the battery. In the case of phone batteries, the phone is the charging device.
Link to more than any non battery engineer needs to know about lithium-ion batteries and charging.
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Thanks for the link/info. A while after I said all that, I started thinking that it can't be right.
The phone does the regulation, but I'm pretty they (the batteries) do have an integrated chip for health stuff.
Cheers again for the correction!

General Well. This is a bit disappointing

S22 Ultra 45W vs S22 Ultra 25W vs S21 Ultra 25W charging test

wouldve expected it to charge much faster, especially when you consider the smaller battery.

Totally expected, 45W works just at lower temperatures and under 50% charge as it was back in the Note 10+ days. It's useful only when you are topping up on the go, for 0-100% it's almost the same

Sprov said:
Totally expected, 45W works just at lower temperatures and under 50% charge as it was back in the Note 10+ days. It's useful only when you are topping up on the go, for 0-100% it's almost the same
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Why expected? That was for previous models. Battery charging could have been improved on this phone too.

‬1‬ said:
Why expected? That was for previous models. Battery charging could have been improved on this phone too.
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Well it is improved, it was downgraded 2 years ago to be fair and now is back to that state. It charges faster from 0% to 50% which is exactly how it used to work before. If you expected something different your expectations were wrong, don't know what to say. Even devices with very fast charge charge faster for the first half then slow down considerably. Samsung has always had a more conservative approach on charging after the Note 7 debacle, that's why I expected it to be managed like it was before.

Sprov said:
Well it is improved, it was downgraded 2 years ago to be fair and now is back to that state. It charges faster from 0% to 50% which is exactly how it used to work before. If you expected something different your expectations were wrong, don't know what to say. Even devices with very fast charge charge faster for the first half then slow down considerably. Samsung has always had a more conservative approach on charging after the Note 7 debacle, that's why I expected it to be managed like it was before.
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I've traded my Oneplus 7 pro. A 3 year old phone and It still charges much faster than S22 Ultra. Considering to I'm paying for a flagship phone which is over £1000 and it's charging technology called "Super fast" charging. Yeah I'm a bit disappointed.

Sprov said:
Well it is improved, it was downgraded 2 years ago to be fair and now is back to that state. It charges faster from 0% to 50% which is exactly how it used to work before. If you expected something different your expectations were wrong, don't know what to say. Even devices with very fast charge charge faster for the first half then slow down considerably. Samsung has always had a more conservative approach on charging after the Note 7 debacle, that's why I expected it to be managed like it was before.
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The N10+ with the 25w brick will fast charge from 5-70% at the rate of 2%@min on its 4300mAh battery. Between 70-82% it may ramp down slightly, at 90% fast charging disengages.
This is dependent on battery start charging temperature, if too low or high fast charging will not engage, and battery condition. A 20% charge in 10 minutes isn't bad...
Fast charging is limited by heat buildup in the battery caused by internal resistance. The Li cell charging process is actually an endothermic reaction but is outweighed by the internal resistance generated heat.

I can see it being an issue for those that prioritize fast charging over battery longevity. I charge my device overnight and use a Chargie to regulate the charge to a maximum of 80% and limited to 8 watts. I'm not a power user and this method may not work for everyone.

Looks like they're using an older 45 watter. The new ones are the real 45 watts.

eaoosa said:
Looks like they're using an older 45 watter. The new ones are the real 45 watts.
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I heard that was the case. The old 45W charger throttled, making it act like a 25W charger. The new one has PPS and is PD 3.0?

IrrelevantUsername said:
I heard that was the case. The old 45W charger throttled, making it act like a 25W charger. The new one has PPS and is 3.0?
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The old 45 Watt averaged about 28 watts of power iirc. The new one will supposedly give the full advertised wattage. I'm just shocked sammobile out of all sites did not know this...

eaoosa said:
The old 45 Watt averaged about 28 watts of power iirc. The new one will supposedly give the full advertised wattage. I'm just shocked sammobile out of all sites did not know this...
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That is shocking. Do you think the new charger will output less heat to the S22 Ultra because of better efficiency thanks to PPS?

IrrelevantUsername said:
That is shocking. Do you think the new charger will output less heat to the S22 Ultra because of better efficiency thanks to PPS?
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I doubt it. QC boosts the charge wattage by increasing the voltage; more volts less amps means less parasitic waste heat.
What's left to improve on the charging protocol side? They to improve the battery itself now for any meaningful performance improvements.
These manufacturers push the hype, the reviewers do too, then long after the release the truth finally comes out.
If you can wait a few months for the dust to settle you'll get a better idea of what to expect.

There is a new 45w charger, model EP-T4510XBEGGB. This one seems to work fine and not overheat.

hand-filer said:
I can see it being an issue for those that prioritize fast charging over battery longevity. I charge my device overnight and use a Chargie to regulate the charge to a maximum of 80% and limited to 8 watts. I'm not a power user and this method may not work for everyone.
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Curious as to what your thoughts are regarding the Chargie since Samsung has now added the same charge up to 80% feature in Android 12 under device care. Is it now redundant?

Nghtmare said:
There is a new 45w charger, model EP-T4510XBEGGB. This one seems to work fine and not overheat.
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And of course that one is sold out everywhere lol, this happens everytime sammy launches a new device. All the accessories are never available, pretty bad they cant get this right its so annoying for us early adopters.

force70 said:
And of course that one is sold out everywhere lol, this happens everytime sammy launches a new device. All the accessories are never available, pretty bad they cant get this right its so annoying for us early adopters.
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Damn, here in the UK its in stock and has been since even before launch :/

Nghtmare said:
Damn, here in the UK its in stock and has been since even before launch :/
Im in Canada, it sucks here lol.
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i have those USB-C cable with watt LED display. it only showing 31w on my home 65w aftermarket charger,
also showing only 31w on my 65w aftermarket car charger.

I'm using my OP9P charger lol it works really fast so...I didn't need to buy a separate charger. Thank God since it's sold out

Question Help with the charger - Problem

Hello!
It's been a while since I don't have an Android device (Iphone user lately) and I'm buying this beauty these days.
I have two questions: First, right now the 45w charger is out of stock so should I buy the 25W instead just until I find the best one (expend money).
Two: How shall we charge this device? All night? Just 2 hous like Iphone? Please help me out on this.

25W vs 45W is really just a matter of the time it takes to charge the phone. And right now, available evidence suggests that its not worth it. As for how to charge it? All night is fine, as the phone will stop charging the battery when it is fully charged.

does the phone will stop charging the battery when it is fully charged?

Deiota77 said:
does the phone will stop charging the battery when it is fully charged?
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Yes, that is always the case.
I would recommend buying a 45W (or higher) USB PD PPS power supply. That will work on Samsung devices. But keep in mind: it has to support PPS to allow voltages between something like 5V, 9V, 15V etc. If it is only USB PD, it will only charge at 15W.
I have the Anker Nano II 65W that has PPS, but there is also a 45W version. But that is just one option, there are plenty of other products out there that support 45W USB PD PPS

Deiota77 said:
does the phone will stop charging the battery when it is fully charged?
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LAtest equipment come with a battery health function it basically charges fast up to 80% and then slowly charges the remaining 20% to extend battery life. Once at 100% it won't charge at the same level, reducint the current/voltage.

I really don’t want to damage the battery like it happened with my iPhone (1 year and 89%).
That’s why I’m asking!
Please post your own experiences.

Deiota77 said:
I really don’t want to damage the battery like it happened with my iPhone (1 year and 89%).
That’s why I’m asking!
Please post your own experiences.
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The worst thing for mobile phone batteries is heat. So running the display all the time and gaming are probably the things to avoid. Which unfortunately...Is what most phones are being designed for these days. So don't let the phone get hot, and try to keep the charge level under 80% if you want the battery to really last. But batteries WILL degrade. There is no way around that. The best you can do is try to limit the damage.

Deiota77 said:
I really don’t want to damage the battery like it happened with my iPhone (1 year and 89%).
That’s why I’m asking!
Please post your own experiences.
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Two things kill the battery: heat and high/low voltages
In an ideal world, the Li-ion battery is at around 20°C and stays at around 3.8V.
Use the slowest possible charger whenever you can (5W e. g.)
Avoid fast charging as often as possible
Don't charge past 80% and don't let it drop below 20%
Don't let your phone stay at 100% for too long. Nothing will happen but the high voltage will degrade the battery (like if you leave your device plugged in every night).
In theory you shouldn't charge your device when it's hot and so on but I mean if you live in Spain for example and it is summer. What else are you going to do? So avoiding charging the ambient temperature is too high, is something you can't really do. (Yeah, in Spain most homes to have AC but you get the point )
I have taken care of my OnePlus 7T Pro's battery since I have received it 2 years ago. According to OnePlus Diagnostic it started at around 97% health (new device) and is now at 93%. I almost never charge above 80% and have a Tasker routine to only let it stay at 60% over night and charge to 80% right before my alarm rings. I use ACC (Advanced Charging Controller) for that. But it requires Magisk.
That might be a bit extreme but I have only lost 4% after 2 years and countless battery cycles. Keep in mind that every now and then you should go from 0% to 100% to let the system calibrate the battery so that it accurately reports its charge. This is the only reason why you should do this so that the system knows how much capacity the battery has. And if you mostly stay between 20–80% all the time, it might think that 80% is its max charge and start misreporting the percentage.

Thanks for all that great tips. I think I won't ever buy an extra fast power charger, I'll use a normal one...

is it safe to use 25 watt charger of s 21 TA-800 for charging s22 ultra?

osamaelgabry said:
is it safe to use 25 watt charger of s 21 TA-800 for charging s22 ultra?
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yes, enable fast charging and limit to 85%

Why is superfast charging not available on premium phones?

The Chinese smartphone brands with their dual cell systems have brought about revolutionary change in our charging experience. That coupled with their special emphasis on cooling inside the smartphone make these devices excellent for all types of use.
But when looking closer, I see that their latest (mind blowing) charging speeds are limited to their midrange models. Their premium flagships still come with a couple of years old charging speeds. Normally, any new feature is first launched with premium devices, which then trickles down to less expensive devices over time.
What are we supposed to understand from this?
1. Are midrange smartphones from these brands a testing ground for latest technologies?
2. Are such charging speeds indeed not good for long term battery health?
3. Are there risks with these superfast charging speeds that OEMs don't want to disclose?

Long-term battery preservation might be one possible reason.

xXx yYy said:
Long-term battery preservation might be one possible reason.
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They claim that the battery has well over 80% health even after 1500 charge cycles.
The first phone with 150W charging doesn't sacrifice battery health
realme has announced the GT Neo 3, packing 150W charging capabilities. Thankfully, this speed doesn't come at the expense of battery health.
www.androidauthority.com
There are similar and more impressive claims from all the brands. Are these claims not true then?

Fast charging is OEM dependent. Several standards exist: Quick Charge, USB Power Delivery PPS & USB Power Delivery.
On one side, brands are pursuing ever faster charge times with exceedingly high-power solutions. But to do this safely requires expensive battery and circuit components, more powerful chargers, and all too often proprietary standards. Even the best standards push beyond the boundaries of ideal battery temperatures. On the other side are the slower but more universal standards like USB Power Delivery. Their universal nature makes them slower to embrace the latest and greatest solutions to charge quickly, but they are very safe and run cooler than the competition.
AFAIK Qualcomm’s Quick Charge 5 is the fastest Quick Charge implementation to date and can match the fastest standards around. But at the same time, it can be a more conservative standard than other ultra-fast charging technologies making their way to the market and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It augments the USB Power Delivery PPS standard with the potential for faster charging speeds, as seen by the Smartphone for Snapdragon Insiders and Xiaomi 120W implementations. More importantly, temperature and usage-aware capabilities can ensure that the battery stays below 40°C while fast charging, an important marker that other standards are too eager to ignore in pursuit of faster charge times.
Charging speeds compared​
Quick Charge 5: 42 minutes to full, 45W max, 38.7°C peak
Quick Charge 3: 67 minutes to full, 18W max, 34.5°C peak
USB Power Delivery PPS: 51 minutes to full, 35W max, 34.2°C peak
USB Power Delivery: 65 minutes to full, 18W max, 32.5°C peak
IMO the temperature measurements are more interesting. Quick Charge 5 is 5°C cooler in terms of max and average temps compared to the hottest competition. In addition to the temperature-aware charging power, Quick Charge 5 uses new, efficient power management ICs which can be used in dual-mode to help dissipate heat.
Charging Temperatures compared​
Quick Charge 5 65W (SFSI): 95mAh/min, 38.7°C peak, 34.7°C average
USB PD PPS 35W: 78mAh/min, 34.2°C peak, 31.7°C average
OnePlus 65W: 155mAh/min, 43.2°C peak, 39.7°C average
Xiaomi 120W (QC5): 214mAh/min, 43.8°C peak, 39.2°C average
Infinix 160W: 363mAh/min, 41.9°C peak, 37.9°C average
Resume:
Qualcomm's Quick Charge 5 is retaining compatibility with popular standards while adding in extra features for its partners to leverage in the pursuit of lower temperatures and/or faster speeds. So is Quick Charge 5 any good? Absolutely. In fact, it’s one of the better fast charging standards available in handsets right now. But remember, the exact implementation can vary quick a lot depending on the smartphone in question.

xXx yYy said:
But to do this safely requires expensive battery and circuit components, more powerful chargers, and all too often proprietary standards.
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This is what I'm trying to understand. The more expensive devices are not using these superfast charging technologies.
xXx yYy said:
temperature and usage-aware capabilities can ensure that the battery stays below 40°C while fast charging, an important marker that other standards are too eager to ignore in pursuit of faster charge times.
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That's not true. The phones with superfast charging (100W and more) run just as cool as a Samsung, Pixel or Apple phone.
The reason for this is the presence of dual cells and how the technology has been implemented (heat is generated in the charger itself and not the phone).
USB PD and PPS have two benefits:
1. Universal compatibility which means you carry just one charger.
2. Reduce e-waste.
Without dual cells, it is almost impossible to match the charging speeds that we see in some of the phones today.

To my knowledge any Lithium-ion battery ( most phones have it today ) will heat-up during charging / discharging with high current.
This is due to internal resistance of the battery and heat produced is equivalent to current square by internal resistance value.
This internal resistance of the battery is not physical but is in the existence due to chemical composition of the battery.

xXx yYy said:
To my knowledge any Lithium-ion battery ( most phones have it today ) will heat-up during charging / discharging with high current.
This is due to internal resistance of the battery and heat produced is equivalent to current square by internal resistance value.
This internal resistance of the battery is not physical but is in the existence due to chemical composition of the battery.
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1. Heat management is done better in the Chinese phones.
2. Not all current goes into one battery. Only half of it goes to each cell. This is why this is an excellent implementation.

TheMystic said:
The Chinese smartphone brands with their dual cell systems have brought about revolutionary change in our charging experience. That coupled with their special emphasis on cooling inside the smartphone make these devices excellent for all types of use.
But when looking closer, I see that their latest (mind blowing) charging speeds are limited to their midrange models. Their premium flagships still come with a couple of years old charging speeds. Normally, any new feature is first launched with premium devices, which then trickles down to less expensive devices over time.
What are we supposed to understand from this?
1. Are midrange smartphones from these brands a testing ground for latest technologies?
2. Are such charging speeds indeed not good for long term battery health?
3. Are there risks with these superfast charging speeds that OEMs don't want to disclose?
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Click to collapse
1. I don't think that's necessarily the case but it does make up for an attractive marketing campaign for the mid rangers compared to the top end where other features are the stars. It's also likely that the top end market has chips that generate more heat, have wireless charging, etc which makes thermal dissipation a bit harder than your standard mid-ranger.
2. As you've quoted and as many other internal tests seem to indicate, across different Chinese OEMs, the tech has parallelly improved in the context of battery life and are on par, if not better than older generations.
3. Most symptoms should have shown up by now, seeing as the tech has been around for a while and in the least, over 10 million device "samples" with no major fiascos like the Samsung battery for that one model has happened yet.

EricEsq said:
I don't think that's necessarily the case
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This is true. No OEM has so far released a flagship phone with over 80 or 100W charging, even though they have midrangers that charge significantly faster. Most flagships are sticking to the 67W charging speeds.
EricEsq said:
Most symptoms should have shown up by now
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This is why I wonder why there aren't using these technologies for the most premium phones.

TheMystic said:
This is true. No OEM has so far released a flagship phone with over 80 or 100W charging, even though they have midrangers that charge significantly faster. Most flagships are sticking to the 67W charging speeds.
This is why I wonder why there aren't using these technologies for the most premium phones.
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The Mi 13 ultra does go upto 90W. The Iqoo 11 also hits the 100W+ mark, if I remember right. I believe Vivo's x90 series also hits 80W. There's a few that go higher but they don't get released global. I remember one model of Iqoo going to 200W but that was limited to China.
As someone who daily drives a 67W charging 5000Mah phone, it comfortably gives me 2+ days of battery with one charge to 90+ and maybe an occasional 5-15 min top up while I shower. It's probably the economical sweet spot, beyond which, you're spending a bit more on cables, charging bricks (given that most Chinese OEMs come with the charger), safety systems for the charging board, etc.. There's no real need to go higher, for most people. Not until we can get higher density batteries and can hit 7000-10000mah capacities on phones.
A respectable amount of folk, among my peers, who use flagships also tend to go for wireless charging, from what I've observed on the Android space. Could be part of the reason too.

EricEsq said:
The Mi 13 ultra does go upto 90W. The Iqoo 11 also hits the 100W+ mark, if I remember right. I believe Vivo's x90 series also hits 80W. There's a few that go higher but they don't get released global. I remember one model of Iqoo going to 200W but that was limited to China.
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Xiaomi has a few models that charge much faster, yet their ultra flagship charges at under 90W.
OnePlus, iQOO, Oppo, Vivo, Realme are all BBK brands and use the same charging technology. Yet the flagships don't come with the fastest charging speeds their tech is capable of.
EricEsq said:
There's no real need to go higher, for most people.
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That's not true. This is like Apple saying they will never make a phone as big as the Samsung Note. Today we barely see a phone smaller than that.
Faster the better, assuming there is no compromise on safety or battery life.
EricEsq said:
A respectable amount of folk, among my peers, who use flagships also tend to go for wireless charging, from what I've observed on the Android space. Could be part of the reason too.
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Wireless charging is terrible as of today. It is way too slow, inefficient and generates a lot more heat than wired charging. Unless this technology sees radical changes, superfast wired charging will be the preferred charging tech.