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Does anyone know what Dutty changed from his 4/9 release from his 4/1 release in relation to MS Voice Command?
He lists the same version (1.6.19209) in both ROMs. However in the 4/1 ROM incoming announcments do not work over BT and in the 4/9 release they do work.
I would stick with using Dutty's 4/9 ROM (for I appreciate his contributions) however the default SIP in that ROM is just horrendous and to get it to use a different SIP involves having to install two additional "SIP" changer programs, and even when it works my device acts up occassionally just starting to type on it's own and then locking up (happened 3 times after a fresh flash and nothing but trying to install PCM Keyboard based on the info in the thread).
I really need MSVC fully working (with BT announcements) and am most likely going to have to go to a clean ROM since no other ROM seems to have this working, and none of the fixes that are out there can be applied to a ROM that has it cooked in already.
Thanks
There is a patch around for VC fixes the announce bug. A quick Google will turn it up for you.
post location
I would think a senior member would know better then to post a question like this on the main page. Users of this web site should be assigned points doing dumb things like posting questions about specific roms on the main page, or not doing their research. The more points a user gets the lower their rating and leading to the eventual "time out" not being able to post for a determined length of time. But seriously I hate reading over 100 pages of dumb a** posts and repeat questions about the rom that I have chosen to install. Out of 100 pages on this site I think 10 are relevent. I have been on this site for a few months and more as a non member. I don't have many posts because when I have a question I look it up and find the answer instead of relying on others to do it for me.
LOL, nice one guys.
I HAVE known about a VC patch, however it appears to be the same patch that has been around for quite some time. I used it on my 6800 to get VC even working on my device, however it did not fix the announce bug. In addition, since the patch has been available for so long I find it strange that it wasn't included in the 4/1 ROM since this was a well known problem (and apparantly an available fix?) well before that date. Also, from my recollection the "fix" replaces pretty much all of the VC files...which I would think (although maybe i'm incorrect here) cause VC to show a different version number. But, in both ROMs the version # is the same.
As to ALL of your responses...
It is posts like yours that do more to overtake the precious commodity of space that you think exists on this site. It is why when a newbie (or someone who has been around a bit, like myself) has to search through 50 threads to find any type of adequate response, because posts like yours serve to obscure information rather than present it.
It is posts like yours that is what is wrong with this site and prevent it from being as valuable a resource to old and new members alike. If instead of your criticizing and mocking you simply stated the answer (if you knew it conclusively), or linked to a thread where someone else conclusively stated the answer, or simply didn't respond, then we wouldn't have these issues that some of you think are so critically horrible with this site.
If you all took the high road and simply linked to the appropriate thread, then guess what...ALL THREADS ABOUT A TOPIC WOULD LEAD TO THE PROPER ANSWER. Thus, when doing a simple search, it would be exceedingly simple to find the answer. This forum is JUST as cluttered with useless posts like yours as they are with posts like mine. However my post at leasts attempt to gain and share information, where your posts serve to mock, belittle, and obfuscate.
@hvbelton - While I appreciate your seemingly helpful response, it is not much use and serves as more wasted space. Let's assume that as a Senior member I did some basic searches and already had some exposure to the topic but was still confused on some point. It would have been better to provide a link yourself if you are highly familiar with the answer instead of vaguely pointing me in some direction which won't likely give any further focus to what i am looking for.
@mlcohen - I think I address the total uselessness of your post above. Ignore a post if you don't want to respond. Think about the fact that posts like yours (which there are hundreds if not thousands on this site) serve as banal a purpose as you claim my post does.
@P1Tater - I almost don't want to address this response. I'll only say it is sophmoric and serves 0 purpose in a place like this where people are supposed to gather and share information.
@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?
P1Tater said:
@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?
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Because nobody hugged them enough when they were little?
P1Tater said:
@ benga
Nothing was meant towards you. I was just chuckling at what was previously posted. Why is everyone so dad-gum touchy lately?
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I am touchy because I am being called dumb and lazy (not doing my research) by a lurker who has given nothing back to this community (hvbelton). I won't state that I have been a MAJOR contributor here. But at least half my posts are to foster valid discussion or give answers to questions I can.
Then in addition to that post, yours serves to further the sentiment by reinforcing it.
If I am dumb or lazy for being legitimately confused by a patch, which replaces ALL the files of a program with versions that are months (if not over a year) older than the current release, AND still displays the same version number, then I admit to it. However there are many as dumb and lazy as myself as this is a hot topic across many forum boards.
Maybe one of you brilliant programmers would like to go into detail about what the specific problem is with even the latest release of VC in Dutty's 4/1 ROM and why incoming announcments still don't work? Please describe in depth as to why replacing the core DLLs with a much older version (and are they also patched?...and why are the file sizes so considerably smaller?) will fix the issue.
If you took your time to add something to the conversation instead of bringing it to a lower level, we might ALL learn something new. I'm sure that 99.9% of those who might have used this fix still don't understand why it works. This is after all xda-developers, not xda-letmegrabsomefilesandjustloadthemonmydeviceandseewhathappens
bengalih said:
I am touchy because I am being called dumb and lazy (not doing my research) by a lurker who has given nothing back to this community (hvbelton). I won't state that I have been a MAJOR contributor here. But at least half my posts are to foster valid discussion or give answers to questions I can.
Then in addition to that post, yours serves to further the sentiment by reinforcing it.
If I am dumb or lazy for being legitimately confused by a patch, which replaces ALL the files of a program with versions that are months (if not over a year) older than the current release, AND still displays the same version number, then I admit to it. However there are many as dumb and lazy as myself as this is a hot topic across many forum boards.
Maybe one of you brilliant programmers would like to go into detail about what the specific problem is with even the latest release of VC in Dutty's 4/1 ROM and why incoming announcments still don't work? Please describe in depth as to why replacing the core DLLs with a much older version (and are they also patched?...and why are the file sizes so considerably smaller?) will fix the issue.
If you took your time to add something to the conversation instead of bringing it to a lower level, we might ALL learn something new. I'm sure that 99.9% of those who might have used this fix still don't understand why it works. This is after all xda-developers, not xda-letmegrabsomefilesandjustloadthemonmydeviceandseewhathappens
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Geesh man have a xanax. It was a freaking chuckle. It's not like i came to your house and had my way with your other half (as long as its of the female persuasion). Chill
thank you in advance
Hi Everyone,
I too would love to hear the solution to this problem. Hopefully some knowledgeable person will share the answer and help us all.
Thanks in advance!!!
bengalih said:
As to ALL of your responses...
It is posts like yours that do more to overtake the precious commodity of space that you think exists on this site. It is why when a newbie (or someone who has been around a bit, like myself) has to search through 50 threads to find any type of adequate response, because posts like yours serve to obscure information rather than present it.
It is posts like yours that is what is wrong with this site and prevent it from being as valuable a resource to old and new members alike. If instead of your criticizing and mocking you simply stated the answer (if you knew it conclusively), or linked to a thread where someone else conclusively stated the answer, or simply didn't respond, then we wouldn't have these issues that some of you think are so critically horrible with this site.
If you all took the high road and simply linked to the appropriate thread, then guess what...ALL THREADS ABOUT A TOPIC WOULD LEAD TO THE PROPER ANSWER. Thus, when doing a simple search, it would be exceedingly simple to find the answer. This forum is JUST as cluttered with useless posts like yours as they are with posts like mine. However my post at leasts attempt to gain and share information, where your posts serve to mock, belittle, and obfuscate.
@hvbelton - While I appreciate your seemingly helpful response, it is not much use and serves as more wasted space. Let's assume that as a Senior member I did some basic searches and already had some exposure to the topic but was still confused on some point. It would have been better to provide a link yourself if you are highly familiar with the answer instead of vaguely pointing me in some direction which won't likely give any further focus to what i am looking for.
@mlcohen - I think I address the total uselessness of your post above. Ignore a post if you don't want to respond. Think about the fact that posts like yours (which there are hundreds if not thousands on this site) serve as banal a purpose as you claim my post does.
@P1Tater - I almost don't want to address this response. I'll only say it is sophmoric and serves 0 purpose in a place like this where people are supposed to gather and share information.
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AMEN BROTHER! I feel the same way. If someone posts something in the wrong section, stop being a thread troll and either contribute to a constructive response, or SHUT THE HELL UP. Send the user a PM and ask them to move it to the right post, instead of filling up valuable space with useless info.
I completely agree, it's useless trying to search for information when you have 50 pages of crap to go through.
*****************
ANSWER:
Ok with that being said (and I know you said you didn't want to use this, but I am posting it for others) here is a link to the thread regarding fixing the announce issues:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=333260&highlight=voice+command+fix
It is working on my tilt, without using the patch. I just had to go into the VC settings (Start > Settings > Personal > Voice Command) Click on annoucements, and select the annoucement method, and uncheck "Only during free time"
I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site
at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO
This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.
Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.
Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.
I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time
This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.
BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.
Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .
i agree,
there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.
it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)
those who are helped are more likely to help others.
I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
Here is a good example of what I am talking about,
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829
This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,
No , nothing like that runs on the tilt..
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.
its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.
Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .
I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.
Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?
Just wanted to add this:
If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....
This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .
Just a thought...
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
AthenaLod said:
i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!
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Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....
and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.
why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm
Like Mike has posted,
if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
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This would yield better results .
by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search
Just my personal opinion....
I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.
Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.
I think I'm done typing , but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!
Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
Just wanted to say that F2504x4 put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
TheChampJT said:
I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.
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They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.
This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.
Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.
Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.
All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .
So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?
Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.
I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM
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F2504x4 said:
It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..
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Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.
So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.
(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! )
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
l3v5y said:
What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?
I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.
When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.
Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.
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Wow what a way to start off a reply Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO
First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.
what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065
As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
swanlm said:
. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.
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while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)
Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.
It's not about being against Noobies...
Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.
I'll quote this post of mine:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.
Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...
Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.
Thanks for posting that.
Admins, thank you for EVENTUALLY listening to us.
However, can we take this a tad further? Somebody's obviously spent quite some time moving threads across and the result is....
a mess, same as every other XDA-Devs forum.
Is there any scope at all for even more sub forums under the existing x7510 one? Obvious ones that jump to mind is a sub forum just for bricked devices, another just for ROMs and perhaps one for performance related matters.
Having different sub forums makes everybody's lives easier and it means you guys have the opportunity to deliver highly targeted advertising (which should bring in more money for you). Everybody wins!
Alternatively we can just go with the present formula, which basically consists of 20 or so stickies at the top, followed by a mish-mash that makes it very difficult to find things even when using the search function.
I would LOVE to see how you lot structure folders on your own systems! If it is anything like XDA-Devs then I gues you often experience that "now-where-did-I-save-it" feeling!
I say patience...and thanks for the child-forum! Maybe we could make a sticky on how to use some prefix or header labels at the beginning of the thread title, e.g. Bricked: after Kaiser rom update my x7510 went black - HELP! or ROM-DL: official HTC X7510 at last! for ROM download links...
@ NanoRuler
I have read your comments here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=437317 and elsewhere and now in this thread.
I feel I have to say there are a few things you have said that I find more than a little offensive - just a some of your comments in relation to Admin / Mods / Organisation:
"piss-poor organisation"
"admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum"
"admins, especially seeing as they cannot even be bothered to respond to any request"
"My, what an excellent example of good organisation....NOT"
Mixing the above style of comment into your posts, along with your tone in your first post in this thread, is not likely to endear you to Mods, Admins and long standing members here. You see there may be quite a lot of truth in what you say, but it is spoiled by those barbed and untrue comments.
We do monitor how things are going and how things can change, but you have to realise that only a couple of years ago the membership was only a couple of hundred, now it's grown to 195000 active menbers (We MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT!) and a membership well over 1 Million. Add to this that the whole show is kept on the road by a handful of voluntary Mods and 1 Admin who does not have 100% of her time dedicated to the site.
The idea that she has "piss-poor organisation" and has "stubbornly refused to set up a forum", aside from being untrue, is also insulting. As you might imagine with only one Admin, you have to wait to see what overall demand is before leaping in to create new Forum. It does create added Moderation work when new Fora are added and there is nothing more disappointing for members to find a forum that never gets answers because nobody goes there. The demand is guaged over a period of time and when the level seems sufficiently high the Forum is created.
With the level of paid staff = slightly less than 1, you cannot achieve military style organisation and everything working like a Swiss watch. (... and do you know I don't think I'd like it if it did.)
Yes we have a few rough edges (that's what makes us so lovable) and believe me I agree we can improve things over time, only don't expect perfection from such a small team. We rely on members to contribute and make helpful suggestions and to do it politely 'cos we do the best we can with the resources we have - and that includes limited time.
Mike
EDIT: It was me who moved a lot of posts from the Athena Forum to here. You know, while I was doing it I was thinking, this will be awkward without sub-fora for ROM-Development etc. (You see I was thinking along the same lines as YOU). It somewhat cheesed me off though,when I came here, to be told it was a "mess". I disagree, "Mess" is too strong a word, but I do agree we may need a Development Forum at some point.
OK, let's take this from the top, shall we?
"piss-poor organisation"
Please go to this forum, http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=374, then tell me how to find a recent ROM in amongst everything else. I accept your arguments about the growth of XDA-Dev's (hey, despite my objections I remain a fan!) and the lack of admins and moderators. But let's be fair here, have you guys actually ASKED any more members to help out?
I KNOW what's involved being a Mod in a busy forum, I was one at MCMCSE.com, but you can still spread the load a tad more, and delegate tasks more (such as delegate the ability to create sub forums to Mods).
If anything, this struggle to contain the load supports MY argument that XDA-Dev's is NOT very well organised at all. Yes, hindsight is always 20/20 so it is easy for me to now say having seperate sub forums just for ROMs will make things better organised for everybody, and yes, I probably wouldn't have set it up that way had I been asked when XDA-Dev;s was started. But just because there was an oversight in the beginning does it now mean it must be perpetuated?
"admins here are stubbornly refusing to create a dedicated sub forum" and
"admins, especially seeing as they cannot even be bothered to respond to any request"
Hmmm....let me see..... Many requests over a period of more than three months and nobody even bothered to reply to us? Yes, that IS stubbornly refusing. As was stated here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=420259 "Mod Edit: Darn I was enjoying watching them suffer!!" was probably intended as a joke, but may well have been a freudian slip!
If you guys weren't being stubborn about it, why didn't you just come back to us and state your reasons for delaying. Why blank us for more than three months?
I think you'll find you guys pretty much scored an own-goal there.
"My, what an excellent example of good organisation....NOT"
Again, you've almost admitted that XDA-Dev's is NOT the best organised forum in the world. That comment was made in response to rorydaredkign's suggestion that using a few stickies would solve all our woes. It was NEVER aimed at this site, its admin or mods, but was only ever aimed at Rory's silly suggestion!
Nobody expects perfection, least of all me. Just don't blank us and don't ignore us. I find THAT insulting, because when you ignore somebody you're also saying through your behaviour that they aren't worthy of your attention. ('ll certainly bear this comment of mine in mind should you choose not to reply )
Nobody expects military organisation, either. Over-organising can be far worse than not organising at all.
Again, at the time that I stated so, admins/mods WERE refusing to create a seperate x7510 sub forum, so I have to disagree with your claim that what I had said was untrue. I'm a lot of things, but I'm NOT a liar, nor have I ever been. (Sadly "endearing" isn't a term typically used to describe me, either!)
Now, having said all of that, I'll also say that I WAS pissed off, especially by the lack of response/action, so I accept that I may have been too quick to accuse.
I wish to apologise for that to the admin, the mods and most members here.
Finally Mike, I NEVER intended the word MESS to describe the seperate x7510 section. Moving everything here in record time must have been an enormous pain and such a move can never immediately result in any degree of order.
Right, I can't change my signature message in that post, so this post is made purely to show the updated signature.
-Edit:- And yet, the signature has changed!
Hi
Okay, I accept there are some vailid points you make. I can assure you there is and has been no deliberate action to stop (or slow down) a forum being created. I think you do have a point about not hearing anything on whether a forum would be created for 3 months. I don't know if I'm proud to say it but that was probably due to a bit of "muddling through", rather than any deliberate action to ignore the forum request. (Almost a case of wait for the clamour for a forum to get very loud and then create it / if not then the request withers on the vine. NOT the most respectful way to deal with the membership I agree but with no guaranteed or co-ordinated hours being put in by Mods and admin (responsibilities for other things)then a more planned approach tends to remain as a good idea but does not get delivered in practice.
Whether Mods should have powers to create forums is an interesting one. Also not one for me to answer. The Admin reports to a Management group and I guess it would be their and her decision. I can see such a suggestion meeting some resistance if only because Mods come and go fairly frequently and to have power over the structure of the boards might be thought a step too far.
... and now I must go to work... late already
Mike
EDIT: I think it's likely you have a lot to offer this Forum, you are obviously interested and have ideas about it. All I would say is, start with the assumption that the Mods and Admin are not against you but with you. We may be slow to change things, for all the reasons I give, but there is no deliberate action to ignore members and you can always send a PM to Mods or Admin if you think something is being missed by us.
Now is time to BUILD the x7510 section!.
Thanks mike for moving the X7510 3Ds here, I am ready to listen suggestions and to better organize the section.
May be Mickyprima or Irus or some other chef would like to be the FIRST in releasing a new ROM?
A sticky "Rom development" thread is needed?
I agree, "it is a start", next step is up to you ( I have an X7500)
sergiopi said:
Now is time to BUILD the x7510 section!.
Thanks mike for moving the X7510 3Ds here, I am ready to listen suggestions and to better organize the section.
May be Mickyprima or Irus or some other chef would like to be the FIRST in releasing a new ROM?
A sticky "Rom development" thread is needed?
I agree, "it is a start", next step is up to you ( I have an X7500)
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Yeah, I moved the more obvious 7510 threads, but not being overly knowledgable about the device, it's entirely possible there are several other threads that need moved.
Also there were a couple that I stickied, because they appeared of on-going importance, but I could be wrong about them. So yes, as sergiopi says, feedback is needed.
Mike
EDIT: side note - many of the moved threads I gave a two day expiring redirect - so they will still appear in the Athena section for a couple of days - just in case that confuses anybody!!
NanoRuler said:
Obvious ones that jump to mind is a sub forum just for bricked devices, another just for ROMs and perhaps one for performance related matters.
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there is no such subforums for x7500 either...except for the one for ROMs of course, and I think that could be a good idea, or maybe rename this section as x7510 and x7510 ROMs.
slow...but sure...
NanoRuler...you need to remember that the 7510 is still a very *new* device and not many members/peeps have it. I have searched the net high and wide for info on the 7510 and to be honest the only place where I get any real info is at these boards...so it may be lacking in many things right now but it is the BEST you can find online...and I know over time things will improve as more people buy this device. I have mine for a few weeks now but I still prefer my universal only cause the 'cooks' have not started working their magic as yet and out of the box I think the 7510 is kinda lame/lacking...
I am reminded by something my dear grand-mom would tell me back in the day...'It's not what you say, but how you say it'.
Count me in if more hands are needed to get things moving faster...and thanks to all the peeps in this forum for making this place a blast to visit.
youmeus said:
NanoRuler...
I am reminded by something my dear grand-mom would tell me back in the day...'It's not what you say, but how you say it'.
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AGREED -- whatever the usefulness of NanoRuler's comments, the negative attitude that is so evident (even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said.
brucewilsonpa said:
AGREED -- whatever the usefulness of NanoRuler's comments, the negative attitude that is so evident (even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said.
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And you did WHAT exactly to campaign for a seperate section? Yeah, I thought so, buddy!
Currently I think you will find YOUR attitude is not exactly positive, particularly so seeing as you are raking up ground that has already been covered.
And you perceived no real change, nor a genuine apology?
I made my my apologies, after having defended myself first. In fact, I do believe I could clearly show that I was wrongly accused in some parts. Yet despite this I felt the need to apologise - I was not forced, sweet-talked or otherwise coerced into an apology. If that's nor real or genuine enough for you, well, though luck matey!
How bloody dare you judge me or anybody else? Who exactly do you think you are?
In your case you've just "skimmed" to the end, in your case too, I will be polite and allow you to pick the 1st word, but the second word most certainly is "off".
It is time to start talking about x7510 again here instead of members mood, attitude, friendliness...
Wow! I merely shared my perception and end up being attacked and castigated. No offense intended but surely I'm allowed to share with you how you appear to come across -- why are you so quick to assume I (or others) are "judging" you? I think the tone of your msg. vindicates my "perception" -- you can villify me and attack me but this is the last word I offer. Let's get back to discussing the important stuff.
Hmmmm....here's what you said:
"even in follow-up msg. -- I didn't perceive any real change or even a genuine apology) turned me off and I found myself skimming over much of what he said"
THAT is judgemental. In case you don't believe me, look up the meaning of the word.
Don't back off with statements like "I merely shared my perception and end up being attacked and castigated", "No offense intended but surely I'm allowed to share with you how you appear to come across" and "I think the tone of your msg. vindicates my 'perception'".
If you merely wanted to share your opinion regarding how I came across, why didn't you think to do so in a PM, as opposed to a public critique? Why raise it at all well after the fact, when everybody's moved on? And finally, the tone of my message was exactly correct in response to somebody criticising me out of the blue.
At least have the courage of conviction to stand by your earlier statement, instead of trying to wash it away with dribble.
More importantly, have you signed up to put YOUR x7510 potentially at risk to test Cmonex's new unlocker? See, I don't simply spew hot air - I also walk the walk, which is why I've signed up.
Now unless you have something useful to contibute, do us a favour and don't post for a while?
You've probably read the new Operation Iron Fist going on here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=1159
As of now, I will no longer stand for the way some things are going here. If I see ANY trolling, flaming, or disrespectful behaviour, you will receive an infraction on the spot. No more warnings.
Also, offtopic chatter on the development forums is exceptionally high here. This will stop, since I will also infract upon it.
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
I am sorry for acting this way, but you guys are forcing me to do this.
Sounds good to me, unless "iron fist" translates in reality to Naziism.
There's a difference in insulting people, and trying to contribute and being attacked. I tried to contribute by pointing out that there were several bugs that were fairly severe. If a user doesn't point them out, what's the point of ever releasing anything beyond 1.0 and then closing the thread?
However, there's a small group of users in the community who have resorted to fanaticism, and when someone goes that direction it shouldn't be tolerated. When I get criticized for bringing up a bug, and told I'm a "habitual complainer" how is that supposed to encourage anyone to want to participate in the DEVELOPMENT of anything for any phone? For some reason the Infuse 4G participants who I'm referring to seem really on edge, and speak out (often personally) about anyone who says anything aside from praise.
We're not here to be reassured that the world is 100% good, and that everything everyone says is amazing, we're here to participate in an active development community, be it as a developer, or as a contributing end user. The moment you criticize your user base is the moment you go from being an open community of developers and end users to a system of dictatorship, and closed platformism (yeah, it's a word now because I said so), lol.
To the people who squash anyone who's new, or doesn't know something, or volunteers that they're having a problem and need help, STOP. There's no need to make someone feel bad for asking a question a second time in a 3000+ post thread and then criticizing them for not reading the answer in post 2106 on page 291. There's no need to tell someone they are full of crap when they say they're having internet speed issues, and that since it works for you to your satisfaction that they're obviously less intelligent. There's no reason to tell someone they're wrong just because you disagree with them.
To make this a "community" everyone has to be understanding that everyone has their opinions, and that we're all here to make the phone in whatever thread a better phone.
Without developers, this site wouldn't exist. Without end users wanting mods, this site wouldn't exist. If you continue to alienate anyone who's new and turn this into a fanboy forum, it's just going to send them back to Apple iOS forums and devices. If that's how you want to help turn the mobile community, fine, but personally, I don't.
Bella
True to some extent. But the main problem is this:
NeoS2007 said:
Just one more thing: if you encounter ANY of above mentioned offences, let me know ASAP, instead of foulmouthing about it on the public forum. If I see that, you WILL get an infraction too.
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Most people here think they can say ANYTHING to ANYONE. That's not what this forum is about. It's aimed at development and not discussion. If you feel you should debate in any way, move to another forum.
And you can call my method anything you like, I used to warn everyone before acting, but that's over. You of all people should know that.
I'm not about to take any sides, but Bella, you're completely out of line. Being part of the community is different than creating your own community. This is a group working together towards a common goal. To reach that goal, we must provide detailed, factual and documented information to the dev(s) so that we can enable them to create the best possible releases. I've seen no images, logcat, etc. that was provided by you. Granted, there are several others in the forum not providing these details, but there are several who have provided very specific and detailed information. It took far too long for you to provide this kind of information and it only turned the conversation south. You are not alone, so know I am not singing you out; there were several others who contributed to a negative environment. The reason for my posting this is because you were the only one to come here and plead your case.
That said, this is a community filled with individuals. We all have different personalities and will act and react differently to different scenarios. Hopefully this can be the beginning of a constructive and collaborative effort by us all to truly bring our Infuse to the next level.
I will not retort nor reply, I am simply sharing my views and experiences in this forum so far. The Captivate started off rough, but never reached this level. It won't be easy resurrecting this one from the ashes, but it can be done.
Right, you say I was unable to provide any factual data, yet I responded each time with factual and accurate data that was requested by GTG. I think some people get frustrated because often issues that come up are issues they just don't know how to solve, and often that leads to accusations that the end user is crazy, unintelligent, or just uncooperative, when the case is the opposite.
Clearly in the end I identified a data connectivity issue first (review thread if you like) that's been significant enough for him now to pull the ROM until he can resolve the issue. Rather than fellow members responding with productive comments, they responded in an attacking manor. My point was valid (as vetted by GTG at this point), and for those who weren't having the issue, why pipe in and say there's no problem? Do you take your car to the mechanic and tell him everything is working fine?
Initially I was called a complainer for bringing it to the attention. Unfortunately as a developer you can't expect that an end user is always going to be able to provide the detail you need. If I had the experience and desire to build a ROM I'd do it myself. It's kinda like building a house then expecting to know where to find a pipe junction inside a wall that only you know where it is. There's only so much expectation you can have of the end users.
Additionally, this is not the Google Developers Forum. This is not a forum of official Android releases, this is a hobbyist community of people who want to tinker with their phone. If a developer wants to be in an environment of developing for Google, maybe they ought to apply for a position at google.com/jobs. The ROMs that come out of XDA are great, but we have to realize there is nothing official about anything that comes from these forums.
I think the comment should be changed from "development, not discussion" to development and on-topic discussion. Because if you discourage discussion, it's like discouraging shopping in a mall. Discussion is what makes a forum like this great.
I'll certainly commit to staying on topic in the future.
Have at it neo. Thanks
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997R using XDA App
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
Entropy512 said:
Bella, you never provided the data requested. You just compared two modems - this was NOT what gtg asked for. He asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 performance. After looking through the thread, I'm fairly certain never provided this information, you just maintained that you had provided the requested data because of your modem comparison tests.
Perhaps you were under the mistaken impression that 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 was a modem firmware change - if you had opened the update zip to analyze the contents you would see that it was not. There's a reason gtg specifically asked you to compare 2.0.1 to 2.0.2 and not to compare UCKE3 vs UXKG3 modems, and the latter is what you did.
Also, the network connectivity issue was only one of the reasons gtg pulled the ROM. He was trying to be nice, but the poor attitude of many users in the thread was a MAJOR contribution to the ROM pull also. In addition to that, at least two developers have stated either in posts here or on IRC that they are extremely uneasy about releasing any ROM images on these forums because of the poor behavior on these threads. It is also why I currently have a "no support, don't PM me" policy for the kernel I released - it was the only solution to getting experienced users the build that many were asking for without subjecting myself to the painful experience gtg did.
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Understood. I provided what he asked to the best of my ability at the time ... I'd reference my post but I'm not digging through a 3000 message thread, sorry. :-(
Matt-Helm said:
PLEASE have at it! I haven't visited this forum in a few years (iPhone) and now that i'm back with an Infuse this place isn't anything like it use to be.
My 2cents.
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The Inspire and Aria forums were much more friendly, it's not this site, it's just the Infuse forum in general. I had a very positive experience in the Inspire threads
I think it was not the fact that you raised an issue that bothered the developers, it was the manner in which it was raised.
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
After what could be effectively described only as an all-weekend hack session two weekends ago, everyone's been a bit exhausted/burned out. But everyone keeps demanding MORE MORE MORE!
Entropy512 said:
Also, look at it from a developer's perspective - when the thread is filled with posts that clearly indicate that the poster didn't even read the first post of the thread in its entirety (not saying that you did this, but many others did), it gets massively frustrating.
I've never seen so many people completely fail to read/comprehend the first post of a thread as the Infused v2 thread. Even after it was put into the first post as a known issue, we still got reports of HDMI not working every 3-4 pages.
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I agree 100% ... the only thing I can say is that remember that many people come from iphone, aka the dev team blog, which is much different. On theirs you read from the bottom up. I don't think that's an excuse since XDA uses the globally accepted standard in forums. But yeah, last night there were about 25 people in an hour asking why the links didn't work, lol.
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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I know my mouth (and legs) will be shut going forward.
Bravo Neo. Bravoooooooooooooo.
Thank you!
Looking forward to seeing a cleaned up forum!
by the way? how do u become an admin?
i spend way to much time on here...even while im at work (because its my job relates highly to this)
AdamOutler said:
Not really sure if this is on topic or not.... I just looked up "Iron Fisting" and this was the first result http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=iron fisting
Holy cow! The mods/admins mean business!
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(removed comment)
looking forward to clean and healthy forum.
I hope I'm not going to make any enemies by saying this, but I can't say I entirely agree with this being an iron fist. So far all that has been done is the Infused v2 ROM thread was locked. On any other forum I frequent they start with punishing the offenders individually, and only lock the thread as a last resort. I didn't see anybody get personally warned and I didn't see anybody get banned, and it really was only a handful that caused problems. I know there were a LOT of people that were posting the same questions over and over, but that can't be helped most of the time. The ones that were bickering and really ruining the thread are still posting happy as can be. I know it sounds like I'm questioning the mod(s) or being ungrateful, but I don't mean it that way. I just feel like we lost the ability to have an important and fun discussion before all the possible options were explored. Now if gtg asked for the thread to be locked then that is an entirely different matter, but I didn't get that impression from reading the last post.
I really do enjoy these forums and always have, and feel like this board is run very well. By this board, I mean the Infuse board. I just wanted to say that I don't know if I entirely agree with the way the infused thread was handled.
EDIT: I wanted to add that I know the mod(s) do this for free in their spare time, and I know that you can't police it 24/7. I really do appreciate your efforts at running this board, and the ONLY thing that I've seen that I take "issue" with is the handling of the Infused thread. Maybe there are things behind the scenes that I didn't see, and if that is the case then I apologize.
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
NeoS2007 said:
The Infused forum is only locked temporarily, as I asked the dev to contact me when his rom is finished.
Thanks for your support people. Just remember to report anything that's offensive/disrespectful/wrong/etc. and I'll take care of it.
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I did see where it was locked only temporarily. I just wanted to get that off my chest, so to speak. It wasn't REALLY bugging me, but I did get pretty frustrated with how people were acting. It was pretty ridiculous. Like I said before, I really do appreciate your efforts to keep our forums running smoothly. Thank you for your continued presence and work, and for not taking my post personally, (at least I don't think you did ).
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section, but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
thats really true ....
well said brother !!!
Hope Mods doesn't delete this topic also !!!
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
shriomman said:
nicely said ! if it wasnt u, i would have posted such ! because things do seem to get out of hand ! before you kno it most of the important posts are deleted without the concerned developers reading it!
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I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
Misledz said:
I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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Ya especially feedback by senior member for hillbeast & not stupid feedback by stupid noobs who have recently joined this forum (who dont know history of this fotum).
@ misledz
Well said brother
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
Hetalk said:
@OP .. or anyone else ... care to explain all this in a more of layman's term. Just for literarily inept people like me.
What exactly happened? What was posted and then removed?
Only then I might be able to participate in this debate.
Flame me for my opinions but not for my questions.
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More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
^^ Now I see what exactly you're saying.
Even I felt that after months(weeks if you say so) of inactivity for a much awaited and critical development, asking for a ETA(disguised or not) shouldn't be considered a taboo/bane.
People (current senior members) knew(anticipated) this was critical to further development for this device, and decided to donate for a device to get a willing (note this word) and experienced developer to help in this project.
For new users , before posting anything, please understand that lack of development on this front is taking a toll on the very few developers we have for this device. I personally know a couple of devs, who could have helped in this development, if it really happened, who have moved on for greener pastures.
I repeat, these seniors who are (unnecessarily?) asking for ETAs aren't asking after a week from initial announcement/donation.
This is just my opinion, as I felt obliged to post it.
I agree with you:
Improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
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But it is also true that most of the time things are not done the way they should be. I'll use as an example Hillbeast's Kernel 3.x thread too:
Since the beginning, hillbeast stated users should use [Q/A] thread for inquiries and different stuff instead of the development thread, but people continued posting questions in that thread. At first, hillbeast answered almost every question; then, people started asking for ETA and such annoying things, and that's something we could not allow. Finally, moderators appeared and cleaned the whole thread, and now they keep it 'cleaned', also deleting questions not directly related with kernel 3.x development, which at first were more or less tolerated.
To sum up, the ones who worsened the situation were we, people who don't understand the current problems developers are facing, and that led to moderators deleting posts of people just asking questions because they are noobs or they want to know what's going on.
I know it because I've been in this forum for a year and a half (I am not a developer nor a contributor, so I try to keep quiet and just press thanks or give some feedback, that's why I only have a few posts), and i've been reading that thread regularly, at least once a day, since the first post.
I am not blaming anybody, I just think that the way moderators behave has its own reasons...
As we say in Spain, "Al final pagan justos por pecadores", that means something like: "In the end, pay righteous people because of sinners" (sorry for the translation, that's the only way I came up to express it.
Cheers!
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
As I just woke up and haven't had any coffee, I am not going to do anything with this yet until I have a chance to go through it properly.
OK, gotta run off to work, but here is something.
Misledz said:
I've been a loyalist to the SL i9003 forum, From the day the threads went up to when we were grouped under the Galaxy S section as a sub base, Honestly despite moving onto greener pastures the SL i9003 has always been my first choice in the android department, hence why I still keep my SLi9003 and why I would spend as much as it takes to keep it alive than any other higher tier class phones.
First, this thread means no threat, but ofcourse, this is General section and anything goes, The moderators have been doing a splendid job, and if anything what surprises me the most is the activity----in a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section,
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Thanks.
Misledz said:
but a few things have irked me.
I have stood around in the Hillbeast thread and side with Dhiru's and both are what's "Hot" or what's keeping thing's alive here, in a place where development has met it's scarcity. I agree the moderators have done their job properly in keeping things in line where patience runs short considering both developers (Or might I recognize just one- Hey it's the truth, monkey see, monkey do) depend on each other's work to keep the phone in it's tip top shape, but why has the moderation been so strict?
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I assure you that I am taking actions based on reports. I do not own a Galaxy SL so I am not here other than for mod purposes.
Misledz said:
If anything this is the Legacy & Low Activity Devices and we have been shot down from once a standard recognized phone, to the abyss of low tier phones, I would agree there is alot of noob questions being asked, and alot of ruckus about the recent events, but aren't we, the community to decide and voice our opinions out? I would agree the noob questions/statements need to be rubbed off from the thread but I feel the manner of erasing certain posts and thread has gone a bit---overboard and I feel this thread would meet it's match soon. Again, I mean no disrespect to the fine moderators who have done their job properly. I just feel someone had to state this out.
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I am taking actions based on reports entered by the community members here. Since I do not own a Galaxy SL I am not a member of any of the factions here.
Misledz said:
And why? A small share, I was told recently I had been featured on XDA and I didn't even know it (GTab 10.1) so I decided to Google myself, upon doing so, I had seen my threads been offlinked, copy pasted from the GT-i9003 section into other forums, usually I'd ignore this but I noticed most of them are scared to ask or post because of the strict moderation that goes around that too on a Legacy & Low Activity Devices section. Most of them require the tutorial guide in order to move forward to dhiru's ROM because everyone knows if you screw up while flashing a firmware, you end up having a screwed phone not worth having a "blessing" on. I feel the crucial part gets erased, if anything most developers need to know the feedback, improving requires feedback, feedback inspires improvisation.
This has just been going on for a while, and I feel I needed to say this, perhaps most of the community would agree with me on this.
Good job once again to the moderators. With all due respect.
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People scared to ask questions? Really? That would be news based on the number of questions that keep getting asked.
Can you give specific examples of your threads which have been copied to other device forums please?
As far as thread cleaning/deleting posts, I can promise that I have not deleted one single bit of "crucial" information.
I have to go for now, but I will continue this later. I want to work with you guys, but I also am required to do certain things for reasons you are not aware of. I am happy to explain them wherever possible.
Thank you,
mf2112
Misledz said:
@matapollos that's going as my status for the day ! And that has so much truth to it, I've been watching the HB thread ever since it started. Seen the people who took the initiative to help him but a developer is only as strong as the community that favors him, If anything HB should have kept his word, the community had kept theirs on the phone. It just feels---wrong? Yes you will help and answer but there's a saying in english, All bark and no bite. Actions should match what was preached.
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Well said Misledz.
My own recognize developer list have only one name still, trying to get it more, however, they still yet to be right.
i have once donate a SL to a XDA member(or Developer?), and now he's still not yet recognized by public (or XDA?) what is going on here at SL forum?
for the MOD, I think they are fair enough, rules is rules, it mean to be follow, but...still...... anyone missing Jay here ?:victory:
Another trend I've noticed, is the rise of the "unofficial" moderators.
People "spamming" on almost every post.
Best example would be a newbie on XDA asking for something like an ETA, and the damn post has 20+ replies saying Donot Ask for ETAs.
This was just an example.
I see that there are more of such posts, than that of regular queries.
This makes checking threads sometimes very much irritating. Opening a thread only to find out just another reply moderating previous posts.
Misledz said:
More or less when we placed our expectations on HB we had hoped there would be more of a response than ignorance. Instead the posts got deleted, thread got cleaned and such.
@krazzy Wow I didn't think id' see you here too
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brother i have always visit i9003 section when i visit xda
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
SaeberTooth4U said:
moderation shd be strict. so as to keep only usefull n informative posts. else we all will be lost in huge amt of posts.
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I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information, they should search very hard before distracting the major contributors. Testing helps the devs, but harassment doesn't. Testing doesn't mean complaining about battery life. That is what spoiled children do. Thinking about yourself. People who have questions will always find the answer to their questions by searching. If there is no answer anywhere to be found (extremely rare), start a new thread in the General Section. It's simple.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
samisax said:
I have to agree with you.
This forum is for developers. Testers and noobs are here as visitors and if they are looking around for information.
I'm neither a developer nor a programmer. But I know my place and just say what's necessary and search very very hard before asking a question. At least I try. I think about the developers that use this forum to work on phones and don't appreciate it when someone who obviously has no interest in development comes and makes demands as though a ROM or a MOD or any feature or bug is the responsibility of these devs.
I find it crazy when I see non-devs here with hundreds of posts.
It would make much more sense for everyone to keep quiet and read. No need to comment on every thread you go through. ESPECIALLY if you're not developing or solving a problem.
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samisax, you have my sympathy! You have written exactly what I was thinking. It annoys me when I see people demanding things to developers, as if they were their employers...
At least in this thread I've realised there's still people with good manners that knows when they may ask for something from others or not.
I'm really really relieved. Thank you guys
problem
OK, home from work now. First, I am not ever going to infract or punish someone for expressing their honest opinion, as long as it is done in a civil fashion, so I definitely appreciate a good discussion.
To respond to this thread in a general fashion...I see vague complaints over a great many forums about mods doing this or that, or not doing this or that, but rarely any specific instances. We do have a thread in this forum: Moderators to assist should anyone want to bring up specific instances of problems. That means links so we can go there and fix the problems. Please feel free to use that thread. Please feel free to (continue to) use the report button as several dozen of you already have. I have several pages full of reports from this forum. Please feel free to PM me. Some of you have done this, I have received PMs from a number of members with requested actions of me. People have posted requests in the thread above as well. In fact that is really where this thread should have gone, but you don't really have specific examples, so ok.
So people here are reporting things which I am taking actions per the guidelines I have been issued by the Moderator Committee. "Strict" is all relative. I thought I had been strict but fair so far. According to other mods, including jayharper08, I have been too lenient. I am not sure how much "modding" the Galaxy users here want but I can state that the answer is not leaning towards "lenient" based on the number and types of reports I am getting. If people here didn't care, they wouldn't bother to report thread after thread, post after post.
Without any specific examples I can't really give you specific answers as to why I took whatever action I did, but I can tell you that my motivations for working many many MANY hours on XDA that have led to being a moderator were definitely not to close or move threads or posts from other users in other forums I had no real time or interest for given that I never owned or ever will own any of them, or to have to explain repeatedly that it is NOT OK to distribute paid applications here on XDA as this is a community of developers, some of which do make their living from writing software, and that piracy is stealing in exactly the same fashion as if it had been lifted off the store shelf and walked out with it, or to reluctantly hand out infractions to users after PMs and warnings proved not to be sufficient. We don't like to do this. Not one mod I have talked to enjoys having to discipline members, but the alternative is far worse. We are not going to let XDA go downhill like many other sites have done. There are community rules and the rules will be followed, for the benefit of all in the community.
Now, to answer this thread with a very specific example which in all honesty seems to the the *real* issue underlying most other issues in this forum.
Hillbeast.
First, can someone point me to a thread or something written down which says exactly what hillbeast was supposed to do and when? I don't want to prejudge the situation, but all I know so far is that several phones were purchased with pooled monies, one of which went to hillbeast, one went to dhiru (I think, not sure on this one), and one went to another (unrecognized?) dev that I can''t recall the name of who seems to have skipped. If there is something written down that gives me very clear guidelines on what was given and what was expected it would be very helpful here, instead of vague complaints and ETA demands, which frankly I did erase without a second thought.
I see several posts here in this thread concerned that I might have erased something important. I promise to every one of you that I deleted nothing that would remotely qualify as "important" or more to the point "relevant" to a dev thread. If there was anything even slightly technical or related in those posts, I would keep it and erase only the unrelated parts. I deleted the initial offending posts which were reported, then I removed the followup piling on posts, some of which went overboard and were also reported. When arguments start, both sides posts are going to be deleted. No one is more right from all evidence I have seen so far. Since I do not own this device and am not in any of the factions here, I am not taking any sides, but I will defend any members from unwarranted attacks or unsubstantiated claims.
I am not sure how many people here have even the faintest understanding of how real development works. Too many people I think have a completely wrong understanding based on ROMs they are seeing from "devs" that are nothing more than zip jockeys. Frankly, I doubt there is one person in 10,000 here on XDA that can really understand what hillbeast is trying to do. Without benefit of assistance from the manufacturer.
In fact, the manufacturer doesn't even want people doing this at all since it might cause them not buy the newest model phone.
So what I need here is the contract that was agreed to by hillbeast and the other devs and the members here. I can't go by anything vague or that isn't stipulated by 100% of the involved parties. I wasn't here when this deal was set up, but I promise to carefully evaluate everything and I will act fairly.
Thank you,
mf2112
EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying I am going to take an action here. My gut feeling as someone who has worked around software development for more than 10 years is that many of you guys are simply being too impatient. Especially given that hillbeast (despite the irony of his username ) is not an employee of anyone here to the best of my knowledge.
As far as how people want me to mod...well, I am not jayharper08 so I am not going to do things like he did. I can tell you that I don't want to run the forum. I don't want to go through all the threads and posts and find "modly" things to do in my not-so-spare time. When people report things then I come check it out and figure out what to do. Since people here report a lot, I am here more often, which is fine with me but some people may not appreciate. BTW, your thread was not reported, I found it on my own. :victory:
The above being said, I am human and I can make mistakes. If anyone has an issue then talk to me. If I did something wrong I will correct it. If you disagree with something I have done then let me know why (civilly) and I will explain to the best of my ability. You have no reason to fear talking to me in public or private. I became a mod to help people here, not harm them.
Mf2112,
Firstly I would like to thank you for taking the time to sit and read through this and place your points on the table along with your opinions. In a way the thread wasn't that hard to find (Considering the Triangle and the word "Moderator" brings people to see what's being said, pretty nifty tactic I learned over at the GNexus side LOL) as much as I would like to press thanks, the ever so wonderful system has permitted me from my daily 8 limit. And I would do so because this was more or less the response I least expected, in the sense, it's a good response, infact an unbiased one but touches all areas, like a pedophile checking his new victim.
Before I start this, I have no ill intention towards HB, but the whole ETA in the HB thread turned sour only because the agreement between developer (I would hold my word on the developer part) and community was made in exchange. Yes his help was sought out because we had believed that XDA is a place where people share their expertise. Do what is agreed upon (with a fair deal ofcourse) and we don't place any high expectations or hopes in such. But when it's been half a year, that's when things start to roll considering with each passing month, another flagship Class A/B phone get's launched, which is the initial reason why the ETA's went up in flames (But ofcourse this only applies to who ACTUALLY can do something with it). I would have agreed if HB had stated what he lacked, and why he was unable to provide so, he had done initially in the beginning, but when it was more of "Speak first, we listen, then show us what you have done" he turned all silent, which turned tides.
There were 4 phones donated, DoomLord, Fuss132, dhiru, codeworkx. Each of them presented something within a short time of the device they were given, I mean such is the expectation isn't it? I know pooling isn't a big deal considering its $5-$10 each person, but if the community was aware that there were going to be no results that would emerge then they would have donated to XDA instead and gotten a pretty gold star beside their name. I don't know if I'm being too emotional over $5-$10's, but when you climb up that harsh economy ladder from a third world country like most of us do, you suddenly get that feel of how important/valuable $1 is. (Consider the fact that some would find people crazy to spend over RS/PHP 20k over a phone where that would pay up for 1 semester of a College student)
I completely agree however of the mindless babble of those who submit no contribution but have high # of posts. It's insane. But with XDA having 5+ million online user's daily, It's hard to determine who helps and who doesn't. Which is why I've mentioned you have done a splendid job in clean sweeping the arena. Keep up the great work and sorry if this has gone a bit indepth.