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Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so , has anyone found a way / .cab to allow the camera to store the picture in RAW format which enables postprocessing with sw like photoshop? Otherwise any tweaks / .cabs to patch the default JPEG & better noise reduction?
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
Hi
I'd go for that too ... although maybe there's only so much you can do with a 5 meg camera ?
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That got me thinking, my full-sized camera is only 5 megs (a Nikon and had it a while) but takes absolutely stunning pictures.
It isn't the number of pixels reducing the quality, it is the quality of the optics. You can't expect much out of a lens the size of the one included in Topaz.
I don't think having a RAW output would help matters any.
Regards
Phil
Actually, sensor quality is the biggest issue here. Phone camera sensors are tiny and thus don't have the same image fidelity of sensors in dedicated cams. Sure, they're pulling 5MPs out like a point and shoot, but there's a lot less light sensitivity in them. Take the same shot with a cell phone and with a DSLR into an app like Adobe Lightroom and increse the brightness (not exposure). On the DSLR shot, you'd instantly see the extra detail come out of the shadows. On the cell phone shot, you'd see mostly noise and detail masked with noise.
On sensors this size, i doubt the lens would make much difference. The difference between plastic and glass (i believe) is mostly academic. About the best you could hope for is reduced chromatic abherration and flaring, but no manufacturer is going to waste the kind of money necessary to put pro-level or even prosumer glass on a phone, particularly one with a standard-sized sensor.
Also, try the demo version of Neat Image:
http://www.neatimage.com/download.html
It'll batch process up to two images. It's not a deep as the pro version, but it gets the job done.
I seem to be alone in liking the photo quality on the TD2! You need good lighting, and if you stick to ISO100 (200 at a pinch) and reduce "brightness" by "1", the results are better than a lot of compact cameras I've used. The colours in particular are excellent, and bar the occasional strange HTC processing artifact, the detail level is very good, both in the centre and into the corners. For it's minute size, the lens actually impresses me. Where the lens falls down is shooting into the sun, a stiff test for most compacts, but you could still shade it with your hand.
I think HTC's software image processing (noise reduction etc) is actually good, they don't mess with the image as much as some mainstream camera manufacturers. You get more noise, but you get more detail left too, which I prefer. I've printed some of the pics from the TD2 onto A4, and they look superb, you couldn't tell them apart from a normal compact camera.
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
I suppose there might be a lot of sample variance in such a "cheap" camera though, so just because I was lucky with mine doesn't mean everyone will have got a good one.
Pete_S said:
The only issue I have is at higher ISOs (400+). I don't find the noise a problem but I get horizontal interference lines as well which are intrusive.
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Indeed these horizontal interference lines is what ticks me.
I'll try your settings and see if the image quality improves.
... and unfortunately I don't think you can get rid of the interference, RAW or not. It's probably getting in via the power supply to the camera, or maybe being picked up directly, from the main processor or one of the radios. Turning the phone radio off whilst taking high ISO pics might help, I haven't tried it yet. It's the price for so much digital in such a small space. At least low ISO pics aren't affected.
I'm also really interested in raw capturing. Think on some pics we will be able to have higher quality...
Guys still can't leave this idea! I really impressed by diamond2 camera. And i think that even if we would be able to capture uncompressed data from camera, png formant for example, it would be super and would give us some space for enhancements...
for WM there are so much software, and now alternative camera soft?
Or maybe video for 30fps?
Since most D2 users feel the picture quality is only so so
Well i know that some phones have its camera function as "main argument" but other functions usually suffer there. Here we have complex device, and its camera from my point of view make decent picture.
https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5020311/1/soso?h=7b9477
Just made +1 on contrast to have wider dynamic range, and +1 on sharpness cause internal sharp algorithm is crap, if i need i'll boost contrast and sharp in lightroom. And i have very good pictures, this phone easily replace my compact camera.
EDIT: There are probably dozens of reviews/comparisons, but here are two just from today that are also harsh: Krystal Key and PocketNow. And UrAverageConsumer's wife's comments here and here "it does look a little washed out...it is a little soft...I'm not a fan of it...it's good enough..."
The consensus seems to be that the front camera is "soft" (aka it looks permanently out of focus or blurry), the rear cam consistently blows out highlights with or without HDR, and video is wobbly and distorted despite ois AND eis. To be clear (pun intended) this is not a problem with the sensors, but with Samsung's processing. If Google's Camera app didn't disable HDR+ on non-Nexus devices then the S8 it would very likely take the best pictures of any smartphone ever.
Here are my samples shot with my S8 with the better Sony sensors, and a Nexus 6P from 18 months ago. For maximum quality from the S8, HDR is enabled and beauty disabled. 6P is in auto mode. Be sure to right click on the side-by-side compilation images and open in a new tab to see them at full size, where the detail quality—rather than just the light/color quality—is most apparent.
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FULL GALLERY
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 1/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Rear Cam Side-by-Side 2/2 - VIEW AT 100%
Full Res: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 1/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 2/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 3/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 4/5: N6P — GS8
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Front Cam Set 5/5: N6P — GS8
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BONUS - 2MP tablet front cam with no HDR from 2015
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SUPER BONUS - Mystery camera! Can you guess?
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
.psd said:
All in the interest of honesty (it's OK to be honest!)
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Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
Samsung frontcams are always behind the competition. Not sure why. Agreed with OP's honest review.
BarryH_GEG said:
Good lord. GSMArena, AnandTech, and Notebookcheck do exhaustive subjective reviews. GSMArena's and Notebookcheck's camera evaluations are linked below. Spoiler alert: they don't agree with your objective testing of your sister's phone.
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s8-review-1603p9.php
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsung-Galaxy-S8-Plus-SM-G955F-Smartphone-Review.213438.0.html
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I also included nearly 30 minutes of reviews of the camera by PocketNow and Krystal Key, but there are likely dozens of reviews by now showing the same thing.
The front cam looks like it's always out of focus—what reviewers universally are calling "soft". The rear cam consistently blows out the highlights even with HDR on. Video is wobbly and distorted despite having OIS AND EIS. In all cases, this is due to Samsung's processing because devices with inferior sensors from Google or Apple don't have these problems.
Something here in which i agree is that over-exposing. The Galaxy S8 loves doing this in certain situations where it shouldn't be doing but most of all is the auto-focus feature for me. Auto-Focus can be a mess when it wants too, simple macros where it should focus with ease it can't do that. I took my S6 and i found that in certain situations it was able to get a faster better macro with one tap compared to the S8. I felt that this one is a bit sloppy, and requires a lot of fiddling to get a good focus point. But don't get me wrong, whenever the phone is able to focus and does a good job in auto mode the photos look amazing. Overall my only complaint is the auto-focus on close-up shots and some over exposing. I really think these can be tweaked with a software update but honestly this phone should have had a completely new rear camera in the first place without being forced to wait for the new Note. I still believe this phone was a bit rushed, it looks stunning and awesome performance but man those software tweaks and scrolling bugs, and stutters and red screens could have been avoided. Oh yes.. let's not forget that Image Stabilization , wobbly videos and front face focus as mentioned above, i think these sometimes do a mess of a job. Real let down from the camera side of things for me.
I didn't do detailed comparison but for rear camera, which is the one i care the most, my S8+ seems similar and even slightly better than my Note 7.
Consumer Reports did more detailed comparison, they think the s8 has the best 12MP camera there is. And according this photo, in low light it's indeed a lot better than the s7.
https://youtu.be/3MmjHMWwtPU
So no, the s8 rear camera is NOT The Worst On A Flagship Phone In Years
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
No issues, amazing camera. Coming from a Pixel, pixel does look nicer but not by far.
When someone is doing pixel peeping, i am sure you can find flaws about every cameras out there. I look at overall quality and usability such as speed of launch and speed of taking the actual picture. After all phone pictures are all about capturing the moment.
Turn off one of the stabilizations. They dont both need to be on. Also, every samsung has let you adjust the exposure level..
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
The pictures are a lot better than the pictures the HTC M8 took.
Darkestred said:
My short time with the camera is the opposite. S8 front is marginally better than the 6p. Will do more testing.
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Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
willymcd said:
My first impression of the camera coming from a S6, is that it sucks, yes it's better in low light, but if there is decent to good light it is much worse, all my pictures look muddy where the S6 taken at its side looks sharp. really ruins the phone for me!
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Whoa, no way the s6 takes better pictures. I just did my own comparison and ask the s6 photos are so dark and fuzzy
.psd said:
Any examples? I posted several, and I've not come across a single instance where the S8 is superior.
I just bought this phone for $800 and have the Nexus 6P sitting right next to me. Money isn't an issue. I don't make income from hyping the S8 or from my brand. I have no interest in suggesting the S8 camera is any better or worse than it is. Would be really interested to see you post actual selfies like I did to support your claim that, despite reviews and my 10 pictures posted, the S8 takes superior front cam pictures.
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I never said anything about that. I just said in my use i feel its better. Here are 2 sample pics i did. I dont have any fancy setup so its all manual and i realize my pictures are not lined up but i got lazy. I feel the color in the s8 is way nicer and while it does get soft or blend in details like my scruff - i still think overall it does a nicer shot. Its not always a perfect shot. out of the 6 i took one came out blurry.
If my pictures aren't perfect enough - i really do not care. Take it for what its worth.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3F4QJb82X1ReV9mVUMzRzJTdmc
I too made a thread because I noticed how soft this front camera is. I'm super disappointed.
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Looking at the pics it does look like the S8 shots are worse(maybe not) / different from other phones. In all of these reviews the one thing no one has mentioned is that smartphone cameras are largely software dependent. While the S8 is on software that has come right out of the box, 6p as used here has had a whole year's worth of updates some of which definitely did bring updates to the camera software. I still love the S8 and believe that future software updates can and will iron out the issues with the camera. (Just hoping Samsung doesn't drop the ball on the updates front).
Eddie Hicks said:
Here is a great review on the S8 camera. https://youtu.be/NAEVPxQ4MCw
Sent from my SM-T800 using XDA-Developers Legacy app
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That's the one I linked in the OP...??
kornelius1982 said:
@.psd
I appreciate the work you did, but can you provide the original pics with EXIF data included?
thx
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No because image hosts strip the metadata for user protection (e.g. location data) and it would take too long to do it for each picture the following way (e.g. undelete them from google photos and screencap some of the metadata minus the location, then save each file, then upload it, then link it here):
Here's the data for 2 of them to prove they were shot on the S8:
#1 — #2
I am wavering between buying an s10e or an s10. In favor of the s10e: I prefer the size of the device and I like that there is a slight bezel on the left and right of the screen. However, it doesn't have the telephoto camera. I found that zoomed photos with the telephoto on the s10 are quite a bit sharper. On the other hand, I seriously dislike the s10's infinity screen. It warps the egdes of photos, web pages, etc. So, it comes down to how much advantage the telephoto camera provides. If it's not so important, I'd opt for the s10e. I'd like to see some opinions about the necessity for the telephoto. BTW, I realize the P30 has 3 cameras and a flat screen, but it's not the horse I want to ride - no wireless charging, no IP68, so-so sound, probably even worse at updates the Sammy.
All depends what you want.
Yes, a dedicated zoom camera makes better zoom photos.
But, even with image stabilization it is harder to get good shots that are not blurry. I never used zoom on a phone. But i can tell you that since i have the S10e i do mostly 2 photos with the standard cam and than with wide angle. Wide angle does interesting photos.
It is good to have
I don't take photos all too frequently, and when I do I never use zoom. It degrades the quality of the image quite a bit, be it optical or digital.
Since asking this question, I took time at a local store to play with the 10 and 10e. I set both to 8x zoom, since that is the max zoom for the 10e. There is quite a noticeable difference. The 10e had lot of noise and the 10 didn't. In fact, at 10x, the 10 still had a clearer image than the 10e. Now, if I could just come to terms with the curved screen and the weird edge reflections.
Not at all to me but i wish samsung went for the same wide angle lens on huawei mate 20 pro, usable in close up shots and gets amazing photos.
Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
I don't think it's that necessary... When you get 5x or 10x optical then it's cool, but 2x nah... I think the ultrawide is more fun
Getting a 10e here. But wondering how much worse the live focus will be without the Tele lens. Anyone have the experience?
hi GPpro7 users,
I would love to have your answers as users about this :
I have had two old Samsungs (A5 and S8), and they have "old" 12mp cameras...and I have been thinking that nowadays, that's 5 years later, cameras had gotten amazing and I would buy myself one of those, reading about your device the pixel pro 7, about the iPhone, the xiaomi mi11 ultra, the honour magic 4 ultimate, the S22 ultra, the iPhone 14 etc...
I went mad when I read about affordable 48mp, even 64mp and 108 mp cameras that are affordable...and completely puzzled when I read the reviews. Only to end up comparing my own shots to the sample images I could find online, understanding that to my knowledge those cameras produce plain 12mp at all, and any attempt to enlarge them to the claimed say 64 or 108mp size will just give me an unusable image with atrocious quality, whatever the phone.
Then I found about this tool that lets you compare cameras for real after I had read the complete commercial nonsense fuelled reviews online:
Camera comparison tool
see for yourselves how supposedly camera of the year doesn't look 1200€ less cheap than my S8...it is just amazing...no phone really beats others, even old phones...it's all low-quality 12Mp jpegs, that's about not an even decent 8mp jpeg...
And I wanted to buy one because I photoshop for a living, and last camera I had was around 2005, it produced good 8mp raw images, so I could make them great quality material for photo-montages, and therefore produce prints that'd be larger than A4.
It seems I wouldn't even be able to do that with nowadays top-level smartphones that claim they offer 108Mp...and I'm asking because the online info, or basic science, about it online is just misleading.
Please, I would love your own feeling-experience with your device that is supposed to bear awesome 50mp cameras, rather than trust anything that was posted online from reviews to camera samples that could be anything. When they say 50mp, the quality of raw files is the one of average enlarged 8-12mp compressed jpegs, or not ?
Thank you
You get way better pictures on newer phones.
The only time you might see similar results are with perfect lighting.
Thats it.
The sensors are better.
Its one of the few things that actually evolve on phones.
I've had Xiaomi phones with 'AMAZING MEGAPIXELS'.
Its never amazing.
In low light they are so bad compared to flagships from Sony, Samsung and Google.
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
fashion_live said:
I take photos for work on fabrics and carpets. I need an excellent camera phone that takes photos with colors as similar to real colors as possible.
What is the best android phone for my needs?
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None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
Nath_h57 said:
thank you you summed it up, I couldn't find any info anywhere behind the advertising techniques, I wonder if I can get pro quality , that's actual 50mp fine results, for using it professionally, so I'll be waiting for further replies.
Everything they advertise looks like nothing but better looking -less noisy and all - 12mp jpegs at all, plus good zooming abilities in a few cases, but not as the name suggests, high end pro cameras at all.
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If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
ekin_strops said:
If you're talking about RAW, not none of the OEMs offer non-binned images in RAW. You always get the binned output even when shooting RAW photos.
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thank you, yes from the advertisement or product description, one hopes for a say 108 mp good quality camera, that will offer you PLENTY of sharp details in every photograph, like...can zoom anywhere and get a new A4 to exploit. And I'm very disappointed...
ekin_strops said:
None, get yourself a DSLR or a mirrorless camera if you need "accurate" colors. All of the phones have their own way of post-processing the photos and almost none of them result in accurate colors.
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Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
fashion_live said:
Thanks but I know. My question is about camera phones
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check the comparison tool link I posted in the first post. Recent Xiaomi phones seem interesting regarding colour fidelity.
but anyway it relies on the ambient light as you shoot too , an app like Color Grabber may help
HipKat said:
There are some really good YT Vids comparing phone cameras.
Marques Brownlee did a few really involved comparisons of various modes and features of the newest phones. The Pixel Devices, 6 Pro, 6A and 7 Pro were the top picks
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I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
fashion_live said:
I dont need best camera phone, i need best camera phone with realistic and natural colors
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I get that, but this is a phone first, not a camera and you're not going to get everything you would with an actual camera, at least at this point, although Phone cameras have come a long, long way.
I think people need to be reminded this is a communications device, primarily.
The point of the videos is that those things are taken into consideration in the comparisons.
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
96carboard said:
The sensor is 48 MP, but it blends groups of 4 pixels together resulting in a 12 MP image. You can't blow the image up and recover those additional pixels.
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50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
Thank you very much because everything online is VERY misleading, regarding 500 - 1500 euros investments.
I am flabbergasted because the ads and product descriptions pretend it's 50mp or more pro cameras, and they happen to be plain okay (not even but...) 12mp digicams. Nothing worth spending 1500 euros it seems. I just expected I could invest like 800 and get a pro camera too that would just let me shoot a photo, get awesome 50mp quality, zoom on the raw file and get another A4 size good cropped shot etc...on top of the disappointment, the misleading info and product description is truly disgusting
MrBelter said:
50mp binned to 12.5mp on the primary
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Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
tiagobt said:
Is the pixel binning process performed by hardware or software? Is it theoretically possible to have the option of full-resolution images as a future software update?
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The same sensor does produce 50mp images on other phones so presumably it is handled by software, personally I don't think Google will allow it.
It's definitely a software thing as my OnePlus 9's stock camera software does enable you to disable the pixel binning and take a full 50MP photo. The results are pretty terrible though because OnePlus' camera just leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes ! it's all about that, and about the availability of non-binned therefore 48mp or more images online for comparison, it took me ages to find only one of those from a Xiaomi 12s phone, so the actual quality of the camera is actually visible !!! (and not that great !) although the Xiaomi 12t pro and maybe 12s ultra are the best ones I've found so far.
The thing is they show 12mp shots shrunk to our phones' dimensions, or as a shrunk jpeg so that looks good, but that's nothing like the actual camera"s quality that only gets visible on those original non-binned shots, that's a pic that's about an iMac's screen size and it seems very little progress has occurred in five years, the best cam gives okay to good enough results in daylight but that goes with manual retouching. Unless someone proves me wrong...
Personally i don't see what the fuss is about, 12.5mp is more than adequate for printing even at A3 and as they say the best camera is the one you have in your hand, the megapixel myth seems alive and well.
My first DSLR was only 8MP and i did plenty of (paid) weddings and air shows with that.
I was considering upgrading from Note 20 Ultra (Snapdragon) to a new S23 Ultra and then realized the $800 (after trade-in) probably wasn't worth it so I should just stick to my trusted strategy of buying last years model refurb in like new condition (factory unlocked) and save my money.
So I hadn't experimented with difference camera apps (shamed to admit after 1.5 years using my Note 20 Ultra). I usually used just the normal app on auto mode and it's fine for casual shooting. After experimenting and discovering the Expert Raw app my jaw dropped.
The RAW images produced buy the native camera app in "Pro" mode are terrible - worse thant the JPEGS. Loss of detail when you'd expect more detail and no, I'm pretty sure it's just not sharpening vs no sharpening, they are really worse than the JPEGs. The RAW and JPEG images produced by the Expert Raw app are fantastic, especially if you install Lightroom and run the raw photo quickly through Lightroom for further, quick and easy tweaking on the phone itself.
So I started seeing GCam referenced in DPReview forums (which I've been absent from since a couple years) and I side loaded the latest version 8.4. It appears to me this app is designed to use the main sensor wide camera only and doesn't work with the ultrawide or telephoto cameras? Is that true? I took a low light indoor shot using the default settings and the Expert Raw produce a way better image than GCam. Gcam produce a similar quality image if I put it in Night Mode but it took a way longer shot processing time. Or just warn them to hold the phone stead and wait for the line to go all away around the shutter button circle.
I think for this phone the Expert Raw app is the way to go except in cases where I'm going to have someone else take the shot as Expert raw takes a lot longer to take the photo than the native camera app and most people are use to instant shots when they press the shutter so I can see someone move the phone after they press the shutter in Expert Raw before it's done taking the photo.