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Dear all,
Due to the proliferation of new ROM's, the Wizard forum is in need of a bit of housekeeping. The mods cannot do this alone, so we are asking for your help.
1) The four most used kitchens have been stickied for the moment and questions regarding any ROM's you cook based on these kitchens should be posted in the appropriate thread. Please do not start a separate thread. Anichillus Core Professional kitchen is also found in the Development and Hacking forum since it is used for multiple devices and is beyond the scope of many basic users. Users beware. I may de-sticky the kitchens upon further discussions with the mods, but right now the structure will stand as it is.
2) On the same note, I'm asking for kitchen authors to notify me or other mods concerning useless posts in these threads (e.g. Why didn't you include "x" application? or posts that are inflammatory or non-technical in nature). They will promptly be deleted as we shouldn't have to wade through 20 posts of BS to get to relevant tech info.
3) All of the kitchens stickied are based wholly or in part on Bepe's tools and are of the same basic architecture. Therefore no more kitchens will be stickied unless they are truly unique or offer a substantially more comprehensive interface.
4) Also, it's sometimes better for a lot of people to refine one ROM than for a few people to refine a lot of ROM's. I know there are a thousand aspiring cooks out there right now since the kitchens have been released. You may be tempted to release your own ROM to the masses either because you think it's a great ROM or because you want to be known around the board. Resist the temptation. Unless your ROM offers a very innovative user experience (e.g. Touch), it is not likely to get a huge following and might just cause more confusion for the non-developers on this board, you might do better to try to collaborate with some fellow developers in creating a very good ROM.
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to). Some people have repeatedly posted in this forum despite the fact that their posts had nothing to do with Windows Mobile 6 specific issues on the Wizard (i.e "My Herald..." or ("Do you have this software from a Nokia?"). We will issue 3 warnings through PM's but after that you might be up for a temporary ban. This will only happen if you're a repeat offender. Heck we've all posted in the wrong place at one point or another. If possible we may move the post to a more appropriate location but it would save everyone a lot of work and aggravation if the posts are made in the correct forum.
I hope this helps a bit. If you have suggestions for how we can make this place better, please air them here. If you have a complaint with a mod, please PM me first. I don't like public conflict and most of you don't either.
jwzg said:
Dear all,
5) MOST IMPORTANTLY (and you know who I'm talking to)..
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not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
I agree that a strong hand is needed. For this i suggest that there should be a special part in the forum where to move threads that have no replies for hmm...30 days ...?
I don't know too much stuff about forums but i think that would mean a nasty job for you guys so...just a suggestion. Or better...delete them or move them to an sort of recycle bin.
Regarding switching to a new upgraded forum, i think that would be an immense hard work also and it will leave the community off line for few days. It may be needed to come to that soon but that's not a big problem.
But i agree that allowing people to delete their own posts would be nice. But on the other hand, considering hours i spent here reading, i kinda got used to this look
I will PM you with posts to delete but beware that i may be more strict than you and i don't want to waste your time...so i will filter myself.
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
nothin said:
not nice.,...
btw.
upgrade forum to allow people REMOVE own posts/topics, first.
Users can manage, with proper USUAL forum options, too.
smells like we vs. THEM,again,.
"same architecture" - yup, yup, but why i can see potential with new user cook result, and i can't with older builds?
it is random novadays(lack of your knowledge + newbie enthusiasm can make miracles).
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You are reading this wrong. I had about four or five posters who after two or three moved threads and a couple of PM's continued to post totally irrelevant posts in the Wizard Mobile 6 thread. I this was aimed at repeat offenders and not at the occasional screwup. By they way, you can modify your post or ask a mod to move it if you like. Not a big deal.
I'm not trying to be a jerk at all, but I'm not trying to be nice either. I just see the same old builds with different package combo's that anyone could make with the kitchen and a little ingenuity. However, folks like Zoki and the-equinoxe have done some fine things with the touch software that are truly innovative and add substance to the user experience. I for one have partially adapted the T-Mobile wing OEM package to the Wizard (yes camera too, but the image is transposed and my-faves doesn't work). That's true ROM cooking and not just throwing a few packages into a cooker and presto.
It is not "us" against them. It's those who have a bit more experience actually doing our best to take this forum up another level instead of settling for ssdd.
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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I'm working on this...
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
shantzg001 said:
And one more thing to add to this. The original "Wizard" forum has some sort of bug because whenever you open it, there arent more than two pages in it, so older posts are mysteriously made invisible though the front page at forums.xda-developers.com shows that number of threads in it are in thousands..maybe users dont post the general questions there because they think (or know) that if they dont get a reply within a day, their post is going to go into oblivion and not be answered...
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Fixed by admin. Thanks for the heads up.
ANTC said:
all the old versions of Roms should be deleted too...like the very first wm6 roms theres no need for them
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I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
mfrazzz said:
I disagree. There is history and things that can be found in those threads... Unless XDA-Developers is hurting for space, what is actually removed needs to be really determined that it isn't something that may help. I just did a Google search (I've given up trying to use the search here, easier to use Google's advanced searching techniques in most cases) and found an answer in the original Crossbow thread from January. Just deleting stuff because its "Old" is a bad idea IMO... Getting rid of the hundreds of "Help, I bricked my phone!" threads is even questionable as I wonder how many people have fixed a phone due to those and never posted anything here...
Remember there area a LOT of people that read and never post here. Yeah, it gets old answering the same questions over and over again (so I've taken the route where I've quit answering some of those.
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true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
Gulp - I hope I didn't start something we will all regret with my post "Why all these new WM6 ROMs?" http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=313781
Let us not forget that apart from a very few idiots this is a great place to be. I have learnt a lot from this forum considering that I do not have a background in computing.
It has even stimulated my interest to the extent that I have assembled my own computer. Didn't save me money and my wife cannot understand it but I have ended up with exactly what I wanted which a store built machine could not have given me.
I hope you understand the analogy.
Let's just make sure that "We don't throw out the baby with the bath water".
No, you didn't start anything scotch whiskey that hadn't already been brewing a bit. I think my modified OP is a little nicer, but still gets the point across.
ANTC said:
true i guess I worded my statement wrong I ment delete old Rom threads like the different versions of roms...i have no need for my version 1-3.5 beta threads you see what i mean...and I think we should have a bricked phone help thread I even wrote a quick tut on my other site to save a bricked MDA..you understand were im getting at
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I agree with both you and mfrazzz.
What if someone doesn't want to use the latest version of a ROM, they don't like some changes or whatever, they will need those older threads for reference material. Also I notice lots of people asking questions, only to be referred to older threads. There isn't any use reinventing the wheel so to speak.
I think a good idea would be for developers (or just real supportive people) to make kind of an FAQ for some of these older versions, a "best of" list of questions and answers. It can be posted in the forum, it can be on some website somewhere, or in the XDA FTP, whatever. Not only would it give people a good place to refer to, but it might also eventually lead to a cut-down of basically the same questions.
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
jonflow said:
Only then would I think removing older threads be a good idea. I know that wasn't entirely the point of this thread, but hey, mr smart guy back there decided to take a shot so I am too. I for one am right in there with him, I think its THE MAN against US. Oh yes, yes it is. oh noes. <3
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Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
I don't like this talk
Everybody should have the right to publish his work, no matter what hi did.
The rest will judge his work and he will learn something. Only those who didn't do anything can't understand this.
Old topics should remain, I like to jump back to learn something, for new members old topics is a must.
If you must do something to show us you're administrator rights, do something good, like option to close the thread.
Zoki, no one said members can't publish their work. I just honestly believe more of it should be along the lines of what you did with the touch stuff. I truly admire your work because it was bleeding edge (still may be) and that's developing which is why this board exists. I'm not trying to flatter you here to gain your support either. It's just when people throw your name all over a splash screen it doesn't really make it their work since most all of the ROM's here are cooked using kitchens from other authors with packages from other members and yes, even HTC. If that sounds big-brother-ish, it's not intended that way. Just make sure credit is given to the quite literally hundreds of people who've made this possible. We're already having problems in other forums right now with people asking for donations in return for tech support for ROM's they've cooked with other's tools. That is one of the many issues we're trying to be proactive about here.
Regarding closing threads, I'm not an administrator, and they have chosen not to give OP's the rights to close their threads. If you want your thread closed, please PM me and I have the rights close it quickly. If you want someone else's thread closed, well, you can request it, but it may or may not happen.
BTW, the old threads were not deleted, and I strongly believe they shouldn't be. Admin simply made a mistake in a setting, and all of the old threads are visible as per our request.
As a mod, I'm just trying to do my best to make sure that we have an orderly forum and we are developing, which is the forum's purpose.
hey jwzg we aren't really calling you a bad person, we know you're looking out for us I agree though, the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens. It would be better for people to just explain what was in a new ROM scheme they came up with, and it would encourage more people to start learning how to make their own ROMs, therefore making them more intellectual in this particular field, which is a good thing. knowledge is power. But hey its just my opinion!
jwzg said:
Guys, it's NOT the man against anyone. We'd just like to get some real development going on here instead of everyone releasing slightly different versions of the same ROM.
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just to let you know that the REAL develepor regrets now releasing the rom kitchen tools....
jonflow said:
the roms are starting to look the same except for one or two programs, and the splash screens.
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sorry i am noone for you all, my "senior" member status sounds like joke but...
everything is the same imo now, also, theres no real help lately; only people that can have answers are like "how to flash my phoooone", "did i brickeeeeed?" etc.
there's no real customisation of "custom" builds.
seems like checking some oempacks' ticks is making these current OSes special...
i can't get an answer for my problems, despite i tend to help people someOM:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322228
i spent MONTH to make this, and what?
nobody wants to help.
ok, clean this forum up, you may remove my babbling now....
everything i know bout wizard customisation is from that site...but now, in "touch" soft times, there's nothing that makes wizard better, just nothing.
it became playground for kids or what...
sorry for funny english, i cant do better...
i want to say thank you to:
Faria,
Anichillus,
mattk_r
jwzg
double_ofour
zoki
and many many more people that made me ..learning, not copying.
allright, time to watch another touch skin post...
Myself i've been reading most of the time, only lately did i start posting to test some bugs in builds. The issue at hand is a double edged sword. Yes i solved many problems wading through old posts. But i also solved a lot of issues just reading an entire thread. I will never be able to create a kitchen but it sure is nice knowing that when i want to i can build a rom entirely to my liking. But indeed to many Build threads these day are the same. And most of the issues handled, but then spread across multiple build threads, are mostly about the same problems. Mainly issues with specific base roms and aplication incompatibilities. I think a lot of the solving of these issues is slowed down because of the spread through topics. Maybe setting up a rule that Roms that get posted and aren't updated or have any fixes posted should not be taken seriously and can be deleted. This way less Rom versions circulate the thread and only higher quality builds by Chefs are available. Also a good rule might be to have the cooks post more info about the sources and tools used for their builds, like Kitchen used, Base used, Patches used oem packages used. So new users more easily understand that no Rom has no history. It also takes away the polish of parading with your ego. Maybe even changing the main wizard topics into
1. Kitchen Development
2. How To & Troubleshooting
3. Rom Builds testing
4. Custom Made Software & tweaks
5. Hardware and Accesoires
6. To be Deleted (either move topics or delete them when re/placed into new main topics)
Then indeed phase out unneeded old posts if the information is passed into new threads that accordingly aknowledge the sources.
What i'm trying to say is, to change the perception a bit more that this is not a Technical support site and more of a doing site.
I think the main topics can set an expectation and the current ones don't give the impression that flashing is not kids biznz.
Also it looks like there are to many uploads of the same home screens, software etc. (i think even i am quilty of that).
I'm all for a big clean up but with the focus on retaining the history and origin as much as possible even if it means loosing a few classic threads.
You as admin can set the tone and expectation and a clear message should be sent to junior cooks that collaboration is what drives this site.
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Yes SIR Create some rules.I don't want to be a bad guy I am also not so skilled but at list I try to read .I flash for 2 years from this forum (starting with Hermes-TyTn and noe Kaiser-TyTn II) and always I find the answer in some thread on XDA.
Newbe at list think that you can easily brick your devices and forget about warranty if you don't read before.For shure you will find the answear at list 10 times .
Developers keep the good work !!!
Martinhdk said:
I have noticed that this forum is beginning to look like HERMES once did. A lot of new people who just got the phone and asks a lot of questions before reading and searching for an answer.
I remember that there was a lot of badmouth in HERMES forum and some of the REAL developers went away due to all those questions asked again and again and then again.
We have all been NEW - and we are not all developers (I am not) but I love this forum and spend lots of time in here reading and becoming clever on my phone.
I am just sorry to see that things are repeated again and again.
The point is. No one has anything against any new people asking questions - BUT PLEASE use the search button first - then READ the proper THREADS, and THEN ask if INFO cannot be found.
REMEMBER - its quite possible that some have had the same problem before.
NOW: Should we have a STICKY thread for NEW guys??? MODS get on track and set some RULES please. (Lets keep it a developers forum where we new guys can become clever)
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Not to be rude but have you searched yourself? There is already like few threads addressing this same concern. It does not matter how many threads/sections we create, n00bs will always ask the questions again.
*ggggg* ---> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=356895
If you have some ideas to add there, just PM me. ^^
In my humble opinion....
WARNING.... Long messge ahead....
Since day one of reading this and other "groups" I've thought how chaotic and difficult it is to be involved in this. Speaking from an engineering perspective, the problems discussed on this board may be difficult to solve, but once solved it shouldn't be difficult for others to find the answers. But it often is!
Yes, the repeated asking of the same question is a problem. But the suggestion in the original message thread won't solve it. Yes, people (and not just newies) will continue to repeat the already answered questions.
So let's take the original question (with a little editorial license)
How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
And how about this one to make it easy for the developers as well.
How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
Here's my take on getting to the answer...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly?
3) What's reasonable to get the results you want?
---------------- My thoughts on question 1 ------------------
If I may take a stab at it at a high level...
1) What are the root causes of the problem?
a) Infrastructure - Simplistic and fairly free form tool
b) Mechanisims - almost none, system depends solely on humans following guidelines, monitoring and enforcing guidelines
c) Guidelines - minimum, focused on relavance and "goodwill"
------------------ My thoughts on question 2 ----------------------
2) How to solve each one of them direcrly? (using different examples)
a) Problem: How to make it easy to find answers to problems/questions after the discussion is over?
- Have an infrastructure that supports.....
Question/Problem description:
Discussion:
Answer/Solution:
..... As opposed to what's here now
Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread
b) Problem: How to make it easy to get the latest information on custom cooked ROMs and other software such as features, bugs, etc.?
- Have mechanisms to support versioning, bug tracking, documentation, etc....
Release [naming conventions, date, etc]
Features
Docs
Support [same infrastructure as 2a above]
Bug Tracking
..... As opposed to what's here now
Release announcement/Question/Problem/Discussion/Answer/Solution in one big thread.
c) Guidlines is a tough one because once you get past the "goodwill" stuff you have to find balance between being too rigid and too loose while maximizing effectiveness. A steering group is often used to do this sort of thing. It could be comprised of different interests to help ensure a better outcome.
In the end, I think the solution is either - deal with it the way it is, or make it a forum-wide issue to address.
Well, a solution, like you describe it, could be a hierarchical step by step information system... but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day.
The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function. But this problem exists everywhere...
And that takes me back to a NUMERO UNO thread about search, rules and so on where a general code of conduct could be present...
Perhaps the real problem is - that we dont write enough info in the WIKI....
Another suggestion: At 4winmobile there was some threads reserved for stuff related to specific subjects (testing and so) and threads reserved for questions and "thank you" stuff.. Perhaps we should make a new SUB FORUM under KAISER related to questions that are NOT related to developement / testing and stuff like that.
Could be KAISER QUESTIONS where every question/discussion is accepted.
In that way we could open the door for all questions and more without any getting irritated with the number of repeated questions.
??
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
bmueller77 said:
but... Who'd be able to administrate this? I can't even follow all threads in the Kaiser forum, although i am reading hours every day....
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The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
bmueller77 said:
...The problem are those, who cannot/don't want to use the search function.....
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While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
tomsenna said:
With all do respect (sincerely) it is easy to dismiss, but I think it is still worth discussing/considering.
The answer to your question (at least in my opinion) is if someone (question originator) asks a question and an answer is provided or problem solved, they (question originator) should properly document it per the infrastructure and guidelines provided.
Even with the current freeform system this is doable.
While there is no doubt this happens, I believe it happens much less than commonly thought. Dredging through threads, search after search for someone new is challenging when they often have a hard time forming the question properly, let alone piecing the various technospeak notes.
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Most do not READ or SEARCH... it is becoming a mojor problem... the same posts over adn over... and then the n00ns ge upset when the people helping them point the to a place to read thier answer rather just handing them the answer straight up.... getting help by asking a question is great but save the rest of us from answering the sames questions over and over when there are stickys and WIKIS to help them..... I don't know alot about this but I search and search and when I can answer questions for people.. most of which I do not know the answer to the question but I can search and find it in about 10 seconds........
Just my 2 cents
This is my first post; I could be considered a super newbie.
I just ordered the Tilt and can hardly wait, I am preparing a folder with all the stuff I need to do including Dutty's V4.
The problem with searching for a noob is, you don't know exactly what to search for. This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
A Newb Board would be perfect, with a few stickies (not the nine million that the other threads have) with the most basic FAQ and guides. From there you can link to the other FAQ or threads.
Questions that I had at first (I ordered a Tilt so they are all based on that):
1) Why do some ROM's have a AT&T Tilt Version, and are these the only ones that will work on my Tilt?-----The Tilt version of ROM's tend to include all of the "bloat" ware that came from AT&T (software trials, etc.).
-----No, you do not have to have a "Tilt" ROM
2) What is the AT&T Tilt missing that other verisons of the "Kaiser" have.
-----AT&T Strips out neat features that come stock on the phone like TouchFlo (an almost iPhone like interface for media) and also includes lots of memory hogging un-needed programs
3)Which ROM should I get?
-----Simply put there is no way to keep this up-to-date enough to answere this question. ROM's are constantly comming out and being updated.
-----Your best bet would be to stick to the most popular ROM's, Dutty's seams to have the most support. You can also look at peoples signatures.
Resources:
--Must Haves:
-----Hard SPL
-----Tilt Keyboard Fix
--Usefull Links (also check stickies)
-----XDA Wiki
-----ROM Flashing FAQ
-----Revert back to Original ROM
-----CHECK THE STICKIES!
If a Newb Board is made I would be more then happy to help create FAQ's/Stickies.
EDIT: I would like to add that the stickies are crazy, way to many replies, what would be good, and an easy solution, would be to split the sticky topics so that the Sticky only has posts from the original auther, he/she can update that sticky with new fixes/updates, and the sticky could contain a link to the discussion thread, that way the sticky stays clean, and every thing can be discussed in a non sticky thread.
Long hours of reading same question over and over again
This is my first post and this is why:
I joined the forum quite a while ago just so I could download the sim unlock for my wizard. I read everything I could find because if it bricked my phone - I knew it would be my fault. I did not have to ask any questions and the unlock process was successful. (it wasn't an easy process for a first timer)
I have been away from the forum for a while, until I got my tilt back in October. I have been hooked ever since. Before I download and install a ROM, I read. When I have issues with a ROM, I read. By the time I am done with the reading, there is nothing for me to ask. I still don't know how the cooks do it, but when I'm ready to find out - I'll read.
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Warning.... here I go again... ignore at will
Alaskan_awd said:
This forum is very overwhelming at first with all the different version talk, different lingo, problems, etc. I almost gave up and said screw changing it, I have spent hours upon hours reading here the last few days and I am starting to get it figured out. The problem is it is a little dis-organized, and what would seem to be the most basic and obvious question to you is a stumper to some one like me (it is actually harder to find basic answers then it is to find more technical ones because no one wants to answered the basic ones, thinking that answered is too obvious).
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Click to collapse
Exactly, couldn't agree more. If this didn't strike an emotional cord with people, I think the answer would be... yes there are people who don't do thier homework first, but there are at least as many who do. So let's focus on the ones that do and perhaps it will give fewer excuses for those who don't.
Having a so called "newbie" area.... sorry that I'm a doubting Thomas, but what would be the change? Okay, let's say it exists. First good thing, get the newbs out of your hair. Now they have a sandbox to play in. Are the information, conversations and all else different? Same structure, just a different sandbox. What happens when they play in your sandbox when they can't find what they are looking for in thier's? I can hear it already (no one in particular of course, but the flames do happen already). After a while, who's playing in the newb sandbox? Some of those with the expertise may conclude "all the newb questions have been answered" and tend not to visit the newb sandbox. And look out... less help... here come the newbs trickling in for help again.
Okay, enough of my drama. My point is, without fixing the real problem you're just fooling yourself (IMHO). Why is it always necessary to to things over and over again rather than do it correctly the first time?
This happens in software and hardware development everyday. There's a difference between managing constraints and good enough. I suppose it happens in every industry doesn't it? I guess it's a human thing
navyguy said:
The repeated questions have really gotten monotonous. I will get 50 pages into a thread and find myself skimming through because I already know what is going to be asked next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more! And the skimming (which is normal) happens when there is no perceived value or frustration or whatever. Then you could miss a minute detail if you were looking for an answer. This happened in the last few days to someone who read and read and read. He asked a question after doing so, was told to go back an read and he did. After a couple of time it was discovered he missed one simple thing.... "cd to the directory". how many messages later burried in a bunch of other conversations were there? Only the next person who has the same problem and dredges through it will know for sure. Just one of many example out there..... and the beat goes on.
As a new Android user who is very familiar with the command line and with Linux/Unix environments, I still feel extremely overwhelmed with the amount of 'fixes' and 'root' hacks going around.
I've played with linux for 100's of hours and have broken the install and fixed it...
But this is a phone that bricks, not a computer. I don't like playing "oh I'll just try this and see what happens" with my $400 phone.
Plus I honestly can't determine which one is best for me.
I started this thread so that someone could assist me in creating a guide for what you want to do and what is best to do it.
For example, I want to upgrade to Froyo when it releases.
In the mean time I want to install a lag-fix/ custom rom.
mymansionisabox said:
As a new Android user who is very familiar with the command line and with Linux/Unix environments, I still feel extremely overwhelmed with the amount of 'fixes' and 'root' hacks going around.
I've played with linux for 100's of hours and have broken the install and fixed it...
But this is a phone that bricks, not a computer. I don't like playing "oh I'll just try this and see what happens" with my $400 phone.
Plus I honestly can't determine which one is best for me.
I started this thread so that someone could assist me in creating a guide for what you want to do and what is best to do it.
For example, I want to upgrade to Froyo when it releases.
In the mean time I want to install a lag-fix/ custom rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do people not know how to read stickies? there are guides and how-to's in this section alone. There are more in the development section. If you don't know how to search a forum, I'm not entirely sure you should be messing with your phone's firmware.
Kaik541 said:
Do people not know how to read stickies? there are guides and how-to's in this section alone. There are more in the development section. If you don't know how to search a forum, I'm not entirely sure you should be messing with your phone's firmware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually have read all of the stickies.
Im not asking 'how-to' do anything.
What I am saying is that this forum has an absolute overload of 'information' and 'solutions'
There should be a more concise sticky discussing the advantages/disadvantages of each rom/lag fix/flash/recovery/etc. (Or at least about the ones anyone cares about)
If this exists, I sure as hell don't see it.
mymansionisabox said:
I actually have read all of the stickies.
Im not asking 'how-to' do anything.
What I am saying is that this forum has an absolute overload of 'information' and 'solutions'
There should be a more concise sticky discussing the advantages/disadvantages of each rom/lag fix/flash/recovery/etc. (Or at least about the ones anyone cares about)
If this exists, I sure as hell don't see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're in a wrong forum if you want someone to give you any kind of "distilled", spoon-fed info just because you're afraid to mess with your "$400" phone.
Again, to second the other reply, all the info is posted. Just RTFW/S.
mymansionisabox said:
I actually have read all of the stickies.
Im not asking 'how-to' do anything.
What I am saying is that this forum has an absolute overload of 'information' and 'solutions'
There should be a more concise sticky discussing the advantages/disadvantages of each rom/lag fix/flash/recovery/etc. (Or at least about the ones anyone cares about)
If this exists, I sure as hell don't see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are tons of guides and they're all condensed. I have to agree with the other poster, if you aren't going to take the time to read and learn what you're doing, don't do it. each sticky offering to help you through all of these processes are there for a reason.
There's the "Pimp My Captivate" thread which is exactly what you say you want. And there have been comparisons of each lagfix by Zilch25, clockwork recovery by Koush is clearly explained in his thread, each ROM is discussed in their own thread.
Ironically, you're asking for a sticky so as to have less stickies. Finding out which ROM you want to use is up to you and if you're not going to take the time to figure out what each tool offers or what each base ROM means, then maybe flashing your phone is something you should steer clear of for now.
If you're afraid of bricking it, just do a Nandroid backup. If something goes wrong, then you can just flash back and it'll be A-OK. If you seriously brick your phone and it's 100% messed up, it's probably because you tried to mess it up.
Hydrocharged said:
If you're afraid of bricking it, just do a Nandroid backup. If something goes wrong, then you can just flash back and it'll be A-OK. If you seriously brick your phone and it's 100% messed up, it's probably because you tried to mess it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even guys that intentionally tried to brick their phone can't do it. I don't have much to say as it already has. Just take the time to read. There is a condensed version of what you can do to your phone, the pimp my captivate. Otherwise there are many different ways of rooting, lax fixes, firmwares to flash etc...so there is not one thing that you can do that will make your decision easier.
flashman2002 said:
Even guys that intentionally tried to brick their phone can't do it. I don't have much to say as it already has. Just take the time to read. There is a condensed version of what you can do to your phone, the pimp my captivate. Otherwise there are many different ways of rooting, lax fixes, firmwares to flash etc...so there is not one thing that you can do that will make your decision easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't say that. there have been several confirmed bricks from i9000's using the i897 one-click downloader. While there is no immediate, known, for-certain brick method for your phones... you never know who or what may be the first... always read as much as you can in the threads before you attempt to do anything
As someone who was new to the Captivate scene, but not XDA, just two weeks ago the best advice I can give you is start with the "Pimp my Captivate" PDF file. Read through that and then move forward to other stuff like flashing new firmware and using odin. Trust me you will catch on. I am no move on to working on friends phones for them without any worry of breaking (bricking) them.
Just read, read, read, and sometime read some more. If you have a question about a certain hack, fix, firmware...ect then just ask that question in that thread. Trust me there will be very useful helpful people to answer your questions.
I did what is probably the easiest method. I used unleash the beast and then one click lag fix. That's it and my phone is amazing now. I plan on sitting tight until froyo comes out and whatever the top rom happens to be.
I do appreciate everyone's answers.
Despite that, I really don't understand this particular forum's aversion of being more organized and concise. (imo)
I don't think any of you who told me to read actually understood my intentions of making this post since,although I didn't state it, I have already flashed mods to my Captivate and I have modded my previous phones.
I'm new to XDA so maybe this site is far more trustworthy than where I've been.
I'll check it out and read at least the last 10 pages of each thing that I install.
Thanks though.
Mod please close this thread.
mymansionisabox said:
I do appreciate everyone's answers.
Despite that, I really don't understand this particular forum's aversion of being more organized and concise. (imo)
I don't think any of you who told me to read actually understood my intentions of making this post since,although I didn't state it, I have already flashed mods to my Captivate and I have modded my previous phones.
I'm new to XDA so maybe this site is far more trustworthy than where I've been.
I'll check it out and read at least the last 10 pages of each thing that I install.
Thanks though.
Mod please close this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we have nothing against being "organized," I just believe your definition of organization is far too complex. You want all the ROMs compared side by side, followed by the tools, and the rooting methods, and the lagfixes and to know which is "best."
Each thing is kept separate from the other because there would be an absolute and definite overload of information in each thread. Look at SRE (a fine example of how to do it properly), he details the result for the end-user and then provides links to where each part of what he did came from. The development section provides a thread on reverting to stock and just that because it should focus on that, rooting can be left for a thread on rooting. SRE shouldn't be tossed into a thread with UTB because they provide different effects.
If you were to compile everything into one big mega-thread, questions would never be answered because there would be far too much crossover. The Pimp My Captivate thread is as good as it gets in that regard, they provide optimizations and suggestions and where to find more information, which is good enough.
I understand.
After this post I am done though, because I'm getting no where with this.
Check out the web page below, this is really what I meant. I can't post links so just close the gap between http:// and ga..
http:// gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/12/17/osx-netbook-compatib.html
I belong to several forums that had been attempting to put mac osx on netbooks and on one of them a chart of compatibility was compiled, which is similar to what I was suggesting we needed.
Ignore the comments below the chart; that would be unnecessary.
All I was proposing to do was have a locked/stickied thread that only a moderator could change up as new changes/improvements occurred.
Each root/lagfix/rom would have a href connected to their actual thread.
So there would be no need to have comments/ questions asked on that particular page. ****.. it could just be a damn wiki page, but I digress..
If no one thinks that would be beneficial to the community, that is fine.
I don't care, I can easily figure it out myself.
Mod, please close thread.
Lately I have seen so many "what rom is best for my first flash" or "Help me decide what rom is best for me" threads and they are POINTLESS! Granted there are an abundance of new and old custom roms, everyone has different experiences and opinions on what rom is best.
So... NOOBS:
If you want to know what rom is best for YOU do the following:
- Go to the Android Development Section and read through different [ROM] threads to see what features will work best for you. I have also found it useful to read through the last couple of pages to see what other users think about the current version of the rom.
- If you don't know what certain terms in the rom thread mean or affect (ie. kernel, modem, OC/UV, Gps tweaks) locate the search bar in the top right corner of the page or browse through this page
- Once you have decided what rom you want to try out, you need to learn how to flash the rom. Most of the Developers post instructions but they can be confusing to some of the less experienced flashers. nbs11 has posted a thread about how to do this here and Connexion2005 was nice enough to make videos of the general steps: Flashing back to stock using odin3 , 3 Part video series for flashing roms: video 1 , video 2 , video 3
- Now that you know how to choose and flash a rom just try out different roms until you find one that you like and gives you all the features you are looking for.
- If you find the theme of a certain rom ugly or obnoxious, head over to the Captivate themes and apps section and look through different [THEME] threads until you find one that you like. Make sure the theme is compatible with the rom you have just flashed or are planning to flash.
- If you accidentally brick your phone, read How to unbrick the captivate or if that doesn't work, Unbrick the captivate for only $0.99
-Some useful links other members have posted:
One-Click Root - root your captivate in one click!
Build #1010 or above flash back to stock
My hopes of this thread are to save the Captivate general section from becoming a section full of useless threads. So if you are new, please use these steps and do the research to find a Rom that is right for YOU!
Cheers,
Alex
Thanks, + 1 sticky
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I second that sticky request please. Great piece of work!
Eh....Ii think a lot of us are guilty of expecting too much from "noobs." I remember being new and told to scour hundreds of pages of indecipherable text. Yeah right. I just want to flash my phone! Obviously not everyone does it. I hate to say it, but the forums are not very noob friendly. I recently tried suggesting an idea about organization of themes.....but no one even replied to my idea. Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong) but the wiki is just a link to the sub forums. Someone tried to organize Rom features....but I don't think it hasn't been updated in a while. But I haven't checked
I would still like to create an easy to browse page full of apk's. Maybe I can find some time and a place to upload.....
Sent from my pocket.
swedishcancerboi said:
Eh....Ii think a lot of us are guilty of expecting too much from "noobs." I remember being new and told to scour hundreds of pages of indecipherable text. Yeah right. I just want to flash my phone! Obviously not everyone does it. I hate to say it, but the forums are not very noob friendly. I recently tried suggesting an idea about organization of themes.....but no one even replied to my idea. Last I checked (correct me if I'm wrong) but the wiki is just a link to the sub forums. Someone tried to organize Rom features....but I don't think it hasn't been updated in a while. But I haven't checked
I would still like to create an easy to browse page full of apk's. Maybe I can find some time and a place to upload.....
Sent from my pocket.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure we might expect too much, but I think we should at least give them some guidance to flashing new roms. Since there is so much information out there it can be quite overwhelming to newcomers, which is why I tried to summarize and compile the best information I know of here.
I think your ideas of compiling themes into a one stop shop would be awesome if you kept it updated. I personally would just start a new thread and divide it into the most popular Roms out at the time, and paste links to whichever ones worked for that rom under the heading.
Gave you a 'thanks' and, AMEN!
Stickied, thanks for your contribution
very good useful information
Would the Cognition instructions work for other roms as well? For example, Phoenix 3.5?
PhnXFire said:
Would the Cognition instructions work for other roms as well? For example, Phoenix 3.5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, I have never flashed cog so I am not sure. But here is what I ALWAYS do, and everything works out for the different roms i have flashed.
1. Backup Apps and App data with TiBackup (not system data!!!)
2. Put phone in download mode
3. Open odin3 on computer
4. Plug phone in to computer, wait for odin to say "added"
5. Press start and wait to see if a blue line starts to apear on the phone
6. If the blue line appears wait for odin to finish, if it does not unplug the phone and hope it has not bricked. See the bottom of the OP if your phone is bricked.
7. Once rebooted, use one click root to root phone
8. Open droid explorer and move the CWM update.zip (see attachment to this post) to your phone as well as the rom you are flashing
9. Boot into recovery and "reinstall packages" usually twice until you get into CWM recovery
10. navigate to install zip from sd > choose zip from sd > (rom zip) > yes
11. once done click go back > reboot phone
12. If it asks you to convert data and partition click the first choice, something like convert all data and files, wait for it to finish
13. enjoi!
*NOTE* this assumes you have the correct drivers installed on your computer and that you have tested to make sure they work. I am not responsible if you follow these instructions and fubar your phone.
Does this work for Canadian ROGERS devices?
PhnXFire said:
Does this work for Canadian ROGERS devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not Canadian and haven't used a Canadian device, so I would not be able to tell you. Sorry.
It is what it is
I'm a bit torn by the thread topic, but I do understand. What lead me to this thread was the realization that I was prohibited from submitting a post on the Android Dev forum. It would have been my first post, as I had been testing and writing down the results of my experiences with flashing ROMs that are currently offered. After doing some reading, I found that a minimum of 9 posts were required before posting priviledges available for the dev forum. A little disappointed, but I could deal with that...until I read the opening of this thread. On one hand, I understand that every post has its place and in order for a forum to run smoothly, respect and etiquette is paramount. However, the tone of the post had a kinda, "don't interfere in grown folk business" feel to it; a noob-tolerance, but "stay in your place-ness" IMHO. We were all noobs at some point. Perhaps it's a little easier for some to remember than others. Like I said, I understand. Both sides (Moderators and noobs) have to put themselves in each others shoes to make it work.
ZioNicR said:
A little disappointed, but I could deal with that...until I read the opening of this thread. On one hand, I understand that every post has its place and in order for a forum to run smoothly, respect and etiquette is paramount. However, the tone of the post had a kinda, "don't interfere in grown folk business" feel to it; a noob-tolerance, but "stay in your place-ness" IMHO. We were all noobs at some point. Perhaps it's a little easier for some to remember than others. Like I said, I understand. Both sides (Moderators and noobs) have to put themselves in each others shoes to make it work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is not discouraging noobs from posting or being a part of the forum, in fact following the guide will do the opposite by getting them involved in rom discussions with other members.
I am encouraging noobs to try things for themselves instead of relying on what other people claim to be the "best rom" for them. This was not meant to be an "elitist thread" simply because I haven't even been here that long, just trying to de-clutter the captivate general forum.
I have to throw a wrench into this system.....sorry....there seems to be a lot of complaints about posts in the wrong area. This happens A LOT. I have to take the"noob" side for a minute. Maybe instead of everyone jumping on new members, we find a better way to organize the information. Searching sucks, admit it. I know what I am looking for so I should be able to drill down through the forums to find it. I tried searching for a specific email.apk and gave up after 10 minutes of flipping through posts. There are all walks of people in the development forums. After all, that is where the good stuff is kept. So of course questions are going to be raised there. You are never going to win the war against new members not knowing the culture of this forum. Instead, let's start getting some ideas together on how we can make it more user friendly for everyone.
Sent from my pocket.
swedishcancerboi said:
I have to throw a wrench into this system.....sorry....there seems to be a lot of complaints about posts in the wrong area. This happens A LOT. I have to take the"noob" side for a minute. Maybe instead of everyone jumping on new members, we find a better way to organize the information. Searching sucks, admit it. I know what I am looking for so I should be able to drill down through the forums to find it. I tried searching for a specific email.apk and gave up after 10 minutes of flipping through posts. There are all walks of people in the development forums. After all, that is where the good stuff is kept. So of course questions are going to be raised there. You are never going to win the war against new members not knowing the culture of this forum. Instead, let's start getting some ideas together on how we can make it more user friendly for everyone.
Sent from my pocket.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok so I have to ask, did you even read this thread?
The sole purpose of this thread was to guide new users to flashing new roms, that way they would stop making new threads in the captivate general section asking other users which rom is best.
No where did I mention anything about the development section or new members posting in the wrong section.
If you can't find things with search then try altering your search methods, ie change the "sort results by" drop down box to Relevancy. Often times I just do a google search of "xda (whatever i am looking for)" without the quotes and find what I am looking for in a matter of seconds or minutes.
If you feel like the forum is unorganized, do something about it like I did, don't just sit on your ass. Start a thread with all of the relevant .apk's you think need to be compiled while allowing other users to contribute or don't complain.
I did, but it sounds like many threads I've read in the past over and over again. I could have swore I've read this topic several times here, but perhaps I am mistaken. I follow several forums here at XDA and it is extremely possible my frustrations lie from reading this topic in multiple locations, not just within the Captivate section.
After searching around, I realize that there are not as many threads like this within the Captivate section as I had thought. My apologies for coming off wrong; however,
I do feel like some of the repositories here are disorganized, and have even tried mentioning it, but my thread got absolutely NO response, and it was in what I thought would be the correct section (asking about a list of apks in the Themes and Apps Section). Ah, oh well. Guess my fuse has been a little short recently. I wish I had more free time than just the 15 minutes here and there. I REALLY want to work on sorting the WiKi, but I'm married, so I've ALWAYS got other things to do.
Now that I feel I've completely torn the thread off topic, I'm going back to work
ademarne said:
This thread is not discouraging noobs from posting or being a part of the forum, in fact following the guide will do the opposite by getting them involved in rom discussions with other members.
I am encouraging noobs to try things for themselves instead of relying on what other people claim to be the "best rom" for them. This was not meant to be an "elitist thread" simply because I haven't even been here that long, just trying to de-clutter the captivate general forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the response. Didn't mean to be overly critical of the thread. Simply wanted to express how both sides of the argument can be seen as valid and relevant. I've seen harsh criticisms from seasoned contributors as well as inconsiderate inquiries from new posters that indicate no effort to find an answer prior to posting. No offense intented and thanks for your contribution to the community.
Maybe you can change the thread topic to sound a little less hostile towards new members. New xda users read this first or New posters or anything but "n00bs"
upNsmokeAllDay said:
Maybe you can change the thread topic to sound a little less hostile towards new members. New xda users read this first or New posters or anything but "n00bs"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Edited title.
In short, what I am trying to break out into discussion is simple - we need to figure out a way to reduce user-related/caused damaged devices.
I know we all put our disclaimers in our ROM threads, if you break your device, not my fault, etc. etc.... and before we discuss this I will say it is not our sole responsibility to make sure nobody does something dumb by installing firmware to their devices that may cause issues. What is inspiring this discussion are threads and posts such as this one, and they seem to be popping up more and more:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2056369
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=35793341&postcount=10
For the benefit of the general community and for people who, quite honestly, have almost no idea what they are doing when installing custom software to their devices, I think there should be a little more clarity and warning to users regarding what they should and shouldn't be flashing on top of their custom/packaged ROMs. And for the record I am in no sense of mind saying this could have been avoided by this user. In an analogical way I would say it is similar to teaching a child how to walk, or not play with light sockets. We cannot simply say, "oh be careful" because most people are careful, their issue is simply that they don't know. As developers we know EXACTLY what is compatible with our ROMs and what is not. This would include firmware, of all types - kernels, radios, build versions and modifications to the framework through flashable zip files in recovery.
More and more I am seeing threads like this one mentioned springing up about boot looping, lost IMEI's, and devices being destroyed because a user is (most likely) unaware of small differences between a device or installation method which if was aware, could have avoided an issues, and could have avoided another thread being posted wondering why "x" issue is happening. Of course there will always be these threads, issues, etc., but I feel like some type of quality control could be done on our part. This is what I propose, and I think we should encourage this among ourselves to avoid issues:
At the very top of our threads, the very top, before they see a download link, before they see a list of all of the exciting modifications amplifying their eagerness to flash, and dulling their eagerness to read, we should implement some "OP structure" so to speak. What I would propose is we all try to lay out our threads in this manner:
1. Name of ROM
2. List of ALL known compatible working (in this order): kernels, UI modifications (themes, etc.), firmwares. I would say that THIS is where our disclaimers should go. Right after telling the user what they should and shouldn't flash. This will strike up awareness on the other end (the user) that anything done outside of this instruction is a risk to the device and can permanently damage the device. This should be stressed even more in a thread where the developer has chosen to implement firmwares, builds/ROMs of other devices. The idea is more warning and thorough explanation of what can and can't be installed on top of our ROMs will in fact decrease user error. It is our responsibility to make an effort to decrease this possibility as much as possible. A quick list of useful information will go a long ways.
3. Recommended installation method as the developer has tested and proven - with a step by step instruction to flash.
People need to see this kind of thing before they see a download link. It will help the forum not be overridden by threads and posts of people wondering why something is broken (sometimes permanently), or not working correctly. This will also help troubleshoot issues as somebody will ALWAYS come back with "x" issue, and the first response by somebody should be "well did you follow all the instruction at the top of the OP?" and right away in a productive manner we are troubleshooting issues.
I believe we can ourselves "do some reading" and follow the work of our fellow developer members who spend tiresome hours building for various devices. Knowing what issues are going on with each other's work and thus knowing what our users are expecting will again only help everyone. Let's promote proper cautious behavior as an initial emotion when seeing a new update to a ROM, rather than the excitement of simply a new update. I know this will help, and it will make it easier on those of us who build and produce the software for our users.
I am curious to know people's thoughts about this idea - a structured method of laying out our threads with instruction and information, then the great things they have to expect after installation is complete. These are computers, not phones, let's treat them as such.
:highfive:
I am copying a thread over to this forum that I wrote up in the S3 section about proper flashing methods that have always worked for me flawlessly. There is never fault in taking extra time to make sure something is done 100% correct the first time, to rule out variables that might have caused "x" issue.
Here is the thread I was referring to. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1946701
This will be posted in the dev section as this is where people go to flash ROMs, putting it in QA is useless as that is where people go once they already have an issue.
Chime in boys, I really want to know what people think.
As someone who reads a lot of help i broke my phone posts the simple fact is that a large number of users if not the majority of noobs refuse point blank to read the instructions .
jje
This is also true. What I am getting at is by making information like this the first thing they would see, it would likely help reduce the "flasher flurry" that some people get into simply because of excitement and ignorance.
For those who don't read simply because they choose not to, we cannot help them. I believe there are many people, however, that proceed with caution, but are not informed enough. Simply saying "I am not responsible for your damaged device" is not enough in my opinion. I would revert to the child near the light socket analogy. It is not a enough to say "hey kid, you stick that fork in the light socket you may or may not be electrocuted - proceed with caution." We can do more, and we should.
I don't disagree about the need for this type of thread, but I'm not sure this is the proper section for it. This type of thread could (and probably should) be discussed across ALL android (and maybe even non-android) devices - not specific to samsung, exynos, touchwiz, etc. As well, it's not really a discussion of process, but more a discussion of how to advertise and support a firmware "product."
So, please explain how the OP fits the section guidelines here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2017367
Thank you
Gary
Probably correct there Gary. If it needs to be moved I apologize. Not sure what I was thinking posting it here... it was late... I was tired lol
A simple solution would be to "hide" the download link in OP, so ppl are forced to read at least some of the OP.but there will always be ppl there is out of reach.
garyd9 said:
I don't disagree about the need for this type of thread, but I'm not sure this is the proper section for it. This type of thread could (and probably should) be discussed across ALL android (and maybe even non-android) devices - not specific to samsung, exynos, touchwiz, etc. As well, it's not really a discussion of process, but more a discussion of how to advertise and support a firmware "product."
So, please explain how the OP fits the section guidelines here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2017367
Thank you
Gary
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I agree gary, I've moved this to XDA general as this would cover pretty much any device, WP or Android.